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#696323 - 02/26/09 09:26 AM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25
PG07 Offline
Casual Observer
PG07  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Are you blind or just plain dumb Nitey?? You're NOT talking to her for the 20th time, or don't you understand plain english??!!!


#696325 - 02/26/09 09:35 AM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: PG07]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,570
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,570
Crozet, VA
This is still going on? We really ought to copy this thread and send it off to a business school to include in their Marketing/Salesmanship 101 class as an example of how NOT to conduct yourself.

1.) Trying to gather business and hiding behind a Internet pseudonym. No ability to build trust.

2.) Explode in profanity when attacked as spam. No matter how you view Niteshift's comments, cursing at him and calling him profane names just doesn't cut it as you are trying to build a business/get new customers.

If I were you, PG07, I would punt, come back later under your real name and try again. If I was your boss at that site, you would have some serious explaining to do.

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#696330 - 02/26/09 09:55 AM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,567
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,567
Sydney, Australia
I wouldn't bother Kevin. PG07 and Ms Leonie are closely related, if not one and the same person. It's much easier to fling insults, than answer questions such as....

Who are you ?
What is your position with the company ?
Where is your physical place of business ?
Are you registered, both with government, and your appropriate professional organation ?
Why is your website cloaked ?
Why is contact with you only one way ?
How can I rectify any problems with your product if you choose not to reply ?

I did have some doubt as to maybe this poster was legit. That's not the case. The website and product are simply a scam.

cheers, niteshift


#696333 - 02/26/09 10:01 AM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25
PG07 Offline
Casual Observer
PG07  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Personally contact our clients and ask them for yourselves. You'll find we ARE NOT a scam.

#696334 - 02/26/09 10:04 AM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: PG07]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25
PG07 Offline
Casual Observer
PG07  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Anyhow, I'm off to see the wizzard, the wonderful wizzard of oz!
To all those I went head to head with, my appologies. Howevever it was fun while it lasted! wink

All the best!


#696347 - 02/26/09 11:10 AM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: PG07]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,567
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,567
Sydney, Australia
Aw shucks, no more entertainment. frown Hey wait Ms Leonie, you forgot your baby rattle..... and I guess everyone needs a diaper change at some point wink

cheers, niteshift


#696500 - 02/26/09 03:46 PM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,851
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,851
Indianapolis, IN USA
PG and Niteshift,

First off, neither of you are using your real full name so it's hard to take you seriously. (I only recently learned Niteshifts first name, that only took a couple years). In general, when someone is anonymous, we give them very little credibility.

Second, the original post was fine except for the missing real name. We have no problem with people posting info on services as long as all pertinent info is given upfront and directly in the post in question. However, I have to agree with Niteshift that being anonymous with no business address and no real names attached makes doing any type of business with you out of the question. No matter how great your music is, how great the price is or how great the advertised deal is, you should NEVER give money to an anonymous source for anything. There would be no recourse later if you learned the tracks were stolen or not legally available as promised. Legit business asking for money have real addresses and real names that can be verified.

As for the bickering, both sides are wrong. Niteshift when in for the jugular right off but for the wrong reasons. He didn't figure out the anonymity angle until way later. This has happened before (people here attacked legit people and companies and making them feel unwelcomed here before giving them a chance to demonstrate what they are all about). So Niteshift isn't getting any congeniality awards. But....

PG07/Leonie/Anonymous poster has acted totally unprofessional throughout this post. I don't care how rude or obnoxious a response is, when you're representing a business that is asking for $160 dollars for something, you need to have a cool head and to present yourself and your company in a straight forward and polite way. We've had other companies attacked and in general, the ones that start going off on rants and personal attacks in response are rarely legit or professional enough to do business with. On the other hand, I've seen some serious abuse heaped on people/companies and seen those folks respond politely and professionally and totally turn the entire discussion around in their favor by doing so. PG07 said enough to get booted from our entire site. I didn't see this post until this morning or I probably would have just deleted her out of the system. But because there's been so much discussion, I figure I'll let it play out and then others can decide for themselves if they'd want to do business with an anonymous entity. My advice would be to stay far away for that reason and because of the complete lack of professionalism displayed here.

But...

The business offering is perfectly fine. Selling a pre-fab track as a business concept is 100% legit and quite common in context. We get info and CD's from all sorts of companies that do this as a business and they're quite legit. And writing a song to a well done pre-fab track is extremely common across just about any genre that has vocals/lyrics. If you're a lyricist primarily, getting a track might be a great way to flesh out a lyric idea to an original piece of music. What is the difference between having a lyric and setting it to new music or having new music and writing a lyric for it? Nothing.

I personally write that way even when writing/recording all the music parts myself. In fact, I'd say that about 90% of all the songs I've written and recorded (over 2000) started first as a completed music track and then I'd write lyrics and a melody over them after the fact. My process isn't really any different than if I got a track from someone else and wrote my melody and lyric to it. When I wrote with a regular writing partner, I always supplied a finished music track and I'd sometimes offer up a melody or lyric idea and he'd finish the rest by writing to the track. It wasn't uncommon to use that track and never change it. So reading all this drama over that process being invalid is laughable to me. I've been writing that way since 1984. I know a hell of a lot of people who also write that way.

I listened to the two sample tracks. They were predictable but certainly capable/useful to write a song over and the resulting pop songs were fine. They weren't great and they weren't terrible. For those artists, those tracks were well worth the money. If I had a girl vocal group that didn't play any instruments, getting a track like that would be quite logical and acceptable. But I still wouldn't ever buy it from someone who was anonymous because if there was ever a legal issue I'd need to know exactly where they came from so I could take action or get backup evidence if needed.

So PG, if you want us to consider you a legit resource, you need to present a real name and a real address and phone number that can be verified. You should also learn a little common business sense that says that even if a customer (or potential customer or even someone who will never BE a customer) says something back about you or your business, you respond with facts and evidence to refute the attack, but you never personally attack the messenger. When you get down and roll around with a pig in the mud all you do is get just as muddy yourself and your entire company starts to smell as well.

Have a nice day everyone,

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#696540 - 02/26/09 06:13 PM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 249
John Marnie Offline
Serious Contributor
John Marnie  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 249
Barrington, NJ (US)
Oh it hurts, it hurts shifty, don't hit me no more.:) I know the Aussie's love being cowboys, but you don't want to end up like the boys in "Quigley Down Under" do ya! smile

Anyway buddy, I understand your point, that is, looking out for the welfare of JPF members.

My point in the post above is------enough is enough!
It seems a post starts out with a certain topic and turns into a shouting match about who is right and who is wrong to the point of ridiculousness. Besides, I'm not only opinionated, I'm always right! LOL smile

John

You can't help being you and I can't help being me.


John Marnie: Drummer and singer in
"Too Little Time" Band:
http://www.TooLittleTime.net
#696695 - 02/27/09 01:44 AM Re: Pre-arranged Instrumentals For Songwriters!! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,567
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,567
Sydney, Australia
Hey Brian,

Have read your response carefully, and comments would be....

I disagree.

The reason for my outburst is simple. Sure, you yourself write to completed music tracks. So do I, and a number of other folks. But the music has been written by myself or a collaborator and is part of the songwriting process. If you have to buy the backing track, you're not a songwriter. May as well buy the lyrics, buy the lead vocal, put it all together and call yourself a songwriter. It does nothing for the process, and might as well be paint by numbers.

Secondly, the price is obscene. Go down to your local record store and ask to buy a karaoke track for $160. They'll laugh at you. The product is worthless. It is nowhere near a finished track, it's demo at best. So now you have a cookie cutter track, with hopeless overdubs, because you're not a songwriter anyway, and have't gone through the process. It's simply a sucker bet, for the novice songwriter. That's my main objection.

As to the rough and tumbles,... well, at least it's entertainment. We thrash out a lot of issues, and in the end, most of the time, a conclusion is reached, and a reasonable judgement formed.

I comment the way I do because I'm a keyboard player, and have been punching in the dots since sequencing started. This proposition is simply not value for money. If you want mechanical songs, just type MIDI into your browser, and download the millions available. They're easily replayed with basic software, and as they're only practice tracks, who cares ?

Great songs by novices with limited musical ability ? I don't think so.

Anyways, I stand by my assertions. As to the conduct of Ms Leonie, I wouldn't worry too much. I kinda miss her, she's got balls, but totally hopeless at business. I just hoped I've saved same hapless sod the $160 which they may as well flush down the toilet.

yours sincerely, ( for those that don't know me )

Geoff Wood
Sydney, Australia

( phone No is in the book )

PS - Cheers !

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