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#691767 02/12/09 04:41 PM
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If you had the opportunity to perform at the Bluebird in Nashville, would you travel hundreds of miles to do it and why or why not?

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I would... if they would cover my travel expenses.

If I had to pay those myself, then I would probably conclude that my money would be better spent on other opportunities. Of course, I'm by no means a country star to begin with, which may influence my opinion on the matter wink




Jim Offerman ~ inspirational pop music
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Questions first:

1.) Do you want to write country and get in with Nashville folks? If yes, then yes.

2.) What night is being offered? At least one or two nights (I don't know) are for the "rank amateurs". One might be great, but another horrible and drive off the audience!

3.) Do you have your act together? If you think you can blow them away, then yes. If you think you'll be OK and do a fair representation of your tunes, then yes again. If you think you are going to stink it up -- don't go (I guess).

4.) Can you piggy-back it with meetings, appointments, ... ? Check out Marc-Alan Barnett's Nashville tours. I haven't done one yet, but they sound great if you want to learn about the way things are done in Nashville.

Kevin


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Yes I would and not even hesitate if the opportunity arose, but for my wife's health right now. I cannot run off for that while she is doing so poorly.

edit: I would do it, not because I think it is a ticket to success, but because it is a cool little venue and I would enjoy it.

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Monica,

It depends. What are your goals in doing it? Can you afford to do it?

Now, if you're asking me, I moved here. Packed everything I owned, had a farewell party, drove off to live here 29 years ago and never once regretted it. So you can guess what my answer would be.

So what are your expectations. A perfomance at the Bluebird is just that, a performance at the Bluebird. There is a great amount of prestige to it, but it is no guarantee of anything. So, it is what you make it. The Bluebird is a good place to network, but not great. Don't get me wrong, it is the most prestigious venue in the world for a songwriter. It's just that they don't allow people to talk during the performance and there's not a lot of down time between performances, so there's not a lot of opportunity to "schmooze" compared to other writers' nights.

So during the trip, along with the Bluebird, you might want to try to get a spot at Douglas Corner, or at Debi Champion's writers' night. They're a little more "network" friendly. Of course, the Bluebird is more likely to have important biz people attending, but that's also because there is less time to schmooze and no talking during the performance...the biz folks don't get "ghermed" as much.

Also, being here is a good opportunity to visit NSAI, do a little roaming around music row, check out some demo services, maybe get with folks like Barbara Cloyd, Rand Bishop, or Marc Barnette for a little "diagnostic and tune-up," or even put it together with Bobbie Gallup's Pineyfest gathering in August.

So, as prestigious as the Bluebird is, and congrats if you got the opportunity, it is only one of the resources here.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
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I expect to do the pilgrimage to Nashville in a couple of years, as well as going to Taxi's road rally in LA.

But I will have appointments down, and the marketing packages ready, as well as a comprehensive quality portfolio done beforehand.

Performing at The Bluebird is not top on my list, but having a good beer there and mingle with the songwriters and the industry people there, is.

But if I felt I could help to promote one of my best songs by performing at The Bluebird, I would. But Im not so sure that is the case anymore. It is rather the opposite, setting yourself up as a naive amateur, by doing that.

Its one of the old laws of marketing - if you put a lion up beside you in an add, people will associate the lions qualities with you, and if you put yourself up next to a frog...

So, I guess neither frogs or lions have any desires to be associated with me :-)

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I might, but it depends on which night. I work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and every other Saturday and Sunday night. And "The Medium" is on Monday, of course...

You know, I'd love to play The Bluebird someday. Just the idea of a place where the audience isn't supposed to talk during performances is wildly appealing. My fondest performance memories were at shows with a sit-down audience that actually came to listen...magic moments happen then...but some of those old band days or lame solo gigs felt kind of lonely when I just provided background music to a lot of hollering people preoccupied with hooking up.

But one appearance at The Bluebird before you leave town isn't likely to do much for anyone. Nashville insiders who might be interested would probably lose interest real quick if they know you're not available to BE there when they want to talk face to face. But wow, what a venue. I guess I probably would, just for that experience.

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Hello,

This is one of my last posts here as I won't be around these pages much after this. But I did want to address your comments to the Bluebird. The Bluebird is Nashville's version of Broadway. It is the top of the top and considered Mecca to songwriters. Anyone who is or is trying to be someone in the business usually finds their pathway leads through it.It has been featured in numerous articles, two television specials, a cable television series and River Phoenix's last movie, "A Thing Called Love.' It is the big time for songwriters.

However, it suffers from it's own fame. With 25 year reputation that has made it synonomis with the music industry and Nashville, it has become ground zero for everyone who has ever held a guitar or sat at a keyboard. They show up every day of every week 360 days a year expecting to be discovered. And it doesn't happen that way.
There is a standing list of 25,000 people that have passed the audition to play three songs on a Sunday night writers night. With 8 people per Sunday to play, it is an average of 2-3 years to get a date. And getting longer all the time. There are 18 shows a week, Tuesday through Sunday that have four-five people at a time, 6:30-8:30, 9:00-11:00. The people at the first of the week, Tuesday-Wed. are newer writers having played the Bird an average of 4 times on Sunday before they are given an early slot. These are comprised of brand newbies, granfathered in someone else's round, to the old pro's who have been around a while
Thus.-Sat.late night are for the big pros, with the early shows featuring members of the Bluebird's ratings system of A-C list. The lists are comprised from previous attendance numbers, and monetary considerations. If your previous shows did not do well, you move to "C" List status. And if you do well, the reverse.
The later shows during the week and on the weekends are reserved for the "stars of writing" the big money writers and the old dogs who have been there for years. There is admission on all these shows and a $7.00 food and drinks per person charged. This is a business, and very well controlled, regulated and administered. NSAI actually owns the club now and being a member is a plus to play.
They stopped auditioning people from over a 150 mile radius simply of the overwhelming amount of people applying for the slots. If you live closer, you are more likely to bring more people with you to your show. This is all about people per artist ratio. Without customers, the doors don't stay open, the power doesn't get paid, and employees are laid off.
On Monday night, from 5:30-8:30, the open mic feature of the club is there. and it is probably the most unprofessional group of writers and songs you will ever hear. They almost give awards for anyone able to stand it long enough to stay there very long.
Between 80-100 people will show up around 5:00 and will draw numbers out of a hat. There will be two hats, one for people who have shown up before on Monday's and not played who have recieved "stamps" to play. Some of these people have been two and three times so those are chosen first. 22 people will play during this night depending on how long the songs are. Sometimes they get less than 14-16 since you can only get so many 8-10 minute songs in the space of two hours. When you factor in, people getting onstage, offstage, having ten minute intros for two minute songs, equipment malfunctions, keyboard set ups, etc.inexperienced people with their first time on stage, etc. Three hours flies by, especially if you are number 24 on the list.
So the point being is that the Bluebird is an art all unto it's self. There are a number of other writers nights and open mics in town and to make the most of your trip, you should maximize those and visit the Bluebird for the sense of history, and to see the "real writers" strut their stuff or the beginners of the up an comers in the industry over the next few years.
I hope this will help you in your desire to find out what to do.

MAB

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Monica:

Let me qualify my answer. I'm not a performer and have no desire to enter that overcrowded "arena." I do sing but you could not pay me enough to attempt to do the "Bluebird" pilgrimage. The chance of being "discovered" is slim these days and the expense of all that travel, lodging, meals, etc. is really excessive in today's environment. If your music budget is bulging at the seams... and if you possess the talent and tenacity to endure such torture, go for it. Your odds of winning the lottery are probably better.

Before you go, make sure you know the "rules" at the "Bird" so you don't create more enemies than friends.

If you do pursue this event, keep us posted. I wish you the very best.

Dave Rice

http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice

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Marc,

Sorry to see you are not going to be posting much longer. You have brought a lot to the board that was probably not what a lot of us want to hear. It is nevertheless valuable information and we appreciate it.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


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Only if they paid me enough......I do not come cheap.....and I could play "proper" music.
So that probably rules me out.
On the flip side very few of the "Bluebird" acts would get any bookings at the places I perform.

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After reading Marc's assessment and experience of Nashville in general I see no reason to personally go there. It doesn't sound like a town that I would like. It sounds like a cut throat town. "Music City", so what!
You can make a descent living by staying local. Get to know local newspaper reporters, get yourself in the "Entertainment" section of the local paper. I've done it. It ain't hard to do. Play local gigs, (for money of course), sell your music online. Start a web site. You don't need Nashville, but the mystique makes people think that it is the easy way to fame and fortune. The obsession with Nashville on these boards is overwhelming. It's not Disney World, it's a city just like every other city. There are many more musicians who have made a living with music who have never been to Nashville for one reason or another than musicians who have been there. It's just a town in Tennessee.
Monica, my rant was not directed at your original question, only at the "Nashville obsession". Ben

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Ben,

Nashville isn't cutthroat, though some cutthroats do live here. A cutthroat is found out soon and excluded. It is simply a town that has more big opportunities than most others in the music industry. Some people here work as hard as they can to do as well as they may do.

I'll tell you a "cutthroat" story. I had a band with a regular dance gig, no big deal, decent money I could count on every week. We hired a substitute piano player, didn't know him, he just came in from out of town. He showed up with his wife and wanted her to sing some. She was good, though she was wearing an outfit a little too revealing for the gig. His wife had worked as a bg singer on a major network tv show from years ago, not from Nashville. Anyway, they sang some duets, and when they were through, she was over at the club owner's table showing off her...uh...dress. Well, you guessed it, she offered a lower price for the gig and we lost it. Three weeks before Christmas.

So, I did a little homework and found out who their bass player was. He was a good player who I knew, and I had some good out of town gigs coming up that I couldn't play (I was trying to stay in town...raising my kids). I called him and offered him the gigs. Well, he had to quit their band, because he made a lot more money out of town. Then, I found the bass player who replaced him in their band, and did the same thing. After a few months of this, the piano player got the message and called me. We talked fo nearly an hour on the phone. He told me all the reasons why he thought it was ok to take our gig. After he was through I replied that what he just told me was, basically, a substitute piano player and his wife were invited to sing with our band and they stole our gig three weeks before Christmas. I let him know that it took a man to call me and I appreciated that, but I couldn't, in good conscience, recommend him to others because he had taken our gig. I also let him know that it was good he did that in Nashville, if he had done that in a town like New Orleans or Chicago, he might have gotten some fingers broken.

The Nashville players weren't acting cutthroat, the new guy from out of town was. It's not cutthroat to work hard to move up the ladder and then not like it if someone who didn't climb up wants to pull you off the ladder and take your place.

Nashville is a wonderful town. I thank God I moved here nearly 30 years ago. I'll die here. It's friendly and civil, new people are welcomed with open arms and given a chance to go as far as their luck, work and talent can take them. The very top of the ladder doesn't have much room. It doesn't have much room anywhere, not even Ft. Myers Florida. But Nashville has a much higher ladder.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic.

The Bluebird experience is worthwhile as long as you don't have expectations of suddenly "making it." True, every once in a while someone is discovered there. The whole Nashville "trip" can be a great fact finding and networking experience. Let me know if you're coming down, Monica, I'll stop out to the Bluebird if I'm free, or we can do coffee.

All the Best,
Mike




You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

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Originally Posted by Monica L. Yasher
If you had the opportunity to perform at the Bluebird in Nashville, would you travel hundreds of miles to do it and why or why not?


If I had that opportunity, that would mean I was pursuing it, and would be prepared for a yes answer to play there. So, why would I not go? Unless extreme circumstances of family or health or money were the issue.

Miles? If it's a go from all other points of concern and ambition, why would miles be a factor? They get over with quickly enough. Before you know it, it's the next day! Look at my band's name for that hint. smile

Best of experience to you, if you go? (Assuming you have the opportunity).
John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





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Mike, sorry that I offended you. I tend to go overboard as you might know. Some of the stories that I read don't exactly make me want to get up and move. I may appear disgruntled but I'm not. I just put my foot in my mouth again. Better my foot than yours I guess, even though I did feel a slight kick in the ass with your reply. Thanks for not kicking harder.
Here's my story. I was playing solo weekends at an Irish restaurant. The owners knew beforehand that I don't play "Danny Boy", "Toora Loora Loora" etc. but do play several Irish fiddle tunes and they were OK with that. One night during break I started talking to a guy who said that he was a singer/guitarist and loved Irish music. I invited him to get up and play with my guitar. The first two songs that he played were "Danny Boy" and "Toora Loora Loora". I was fired at the end of the night and they hired him. Lesson learned. Ben

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That is kind of funny Ben. In Chicago where there are tons of Irish bars and Irish musicians, the quickest way you can get a bad rep and probably not get another gig is to play Danny Boy or Toora Loora Loora. They are generally considered tunes that only a dilletante would do.

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Ben, the only way you went overboard is by saying you offended me smile



You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

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Mike and Marc are correct {as usual]I live 4 hours away in Cincinnati, and try to make to Nashville 2-3 times a year {which is not nearly enough I know.}I've played The Bluebird, and the experience was worth the trip. Just to play on the same stage that has been graced by some of the all-time greats is an honor.

As Mike said, don't go there starry-eyed expecting your "big break" take it for what it is. Definitely DO NOT make The Bluebird your sole destination, there are plenty of songwriter nights and other opportunities to network. Wander around Music Row and visit NSAI,or the PRO's, the folks there are very friendly and helpful. Then of course you have JPF regulars like Mr Dunbar and Bobbie Gallup who are always willing to show a newbie the ropes. On the "cut-throat" issue, yes there are Sharks lurking in that town {I got the "initiation" early on,} but by and large the people "in the know" there are VERY helpful and supportive. Competing songwiters will even turn each other on to opportunities because the best song always wins out. I love Nashville, and always look forward to coming back, but the long trip is what you make of it...


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Thanks Mike. I feel humbled. Ben

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Monica, I'll vote for doing it. If you pass up the opportunity, you'll probably think about it forever.

Marc, we'll miss your insight. I've enjoyed reading your posts, they were very informative. Thanks man, but don't be a stranger to us and check back in once in a while, please.

Mike, a thread about gig-stealing would probably go over well.

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Originally Posted by Rick Heenan


Mike, a thread about gig-stealing would probably go over well.


Yeah, a lot of folks would read it thinking it was a "how to" thread.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

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Yeah Jack, I laugh about it now but it wasn't funny at the time. I don't think that the guy was trying to steal my gig. I blame it on the owners. Needless to say, I don't invite people to come up and play at my gigs anymore.
I saw the same guy about a year later. He told me that he played my gig for free,(free Guinness, no money) and didn't believe that I was getting paid.

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Ben;
Weather you got paid or not is not the point.
This other musician stole your gig.
I do hope that you are spreading the word,about this turd.
Apparently he has "no ethics".
What a jerk!



http://www.jerryjakala.com
http://cdbaby.com/cd/jakalajerry2

The difference between genius and stupidity is that there is a limit on genius.-Albert Einstein
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Once..... a booking agent told he that he had got someone else to cover my spots. This guy was charging much less and was supposed to be really packing them in wherever he had played before.

About a month later he was on the phone pleading for me to come back....his take had dropped as the guy was terrible and nobody wanted to book him. "What would it take to get you back" he asked.
Of course I went back.... no problem....for more money and a goodwill payment of lost moneys for the gigs I had missed. He has kept faithful ever since.

Unwritten law. Most acts, bookers and agents here will not step on each others toes...... There is a good reason.... what goes around usually comes around.

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Hey Marc... if you're still around... thanks loads for spending some time with us. Ben, Ray, Everett and I get a little "down" every now and then 'cause it's such a big pyramid we try to climb. Your words and stories are both instructive and remindful of exactly what we fear the most. (That we probably don't stand a chance!) Forgive me guys, if I overstep my bounds and attempt to speak for all of you. In the final analysis, I am only empowered to speak for myself... LOL!

B-T-W... as if you did not already know, Mike Dunbar is himself, a living legend and source of inspiration to the rest of us here at JPF.

Regardless, thanks Marc for your visits. The door is always open so drop in whenever the spirit moves you... and, should you be in or near good old Glen Rose, Texas... look me up and I'll spring for lunch.

Best,

Dave

http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice


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OK,
If the Bluebird is a place for songwriters to play a few songs for Industry Types and nothing else I would pass. I haven't been there so I assume it is for songwriters to present their songs.

I may visit my PRO sometime to see if I can make some contacts that way. Otherwise I concentrate on making my songs the best they can be and submit to those seeking the type of songs I write.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 02/15/09 03:44 PM.

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I'm very sorry to see you go Marc. I hope people have been appreciative of your time and insight. You've already helped me enormously even in just the few weeks i've been on the board. What a loss to JPF ... but of course best wishes.

As to the question about whether to go...why the heck wouldn't you??? smile

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Folks, I've known Marc for a long time, he's an excellent resource to the songwriting community. He's not going away, he's gotten busy and is going to be concentrating on his Industry Clarification thread at the Mentor Forum.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

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Thank you for the response everyone! I will be at the Bluebird on Wednesday, April 15 to perform 2 songs! I know this won't make me famous. But, as said, not everyone is asked to the dance. And, I have been humbled by an invitation. I would regret it forever if I didn't do it.

I will have to check the other open mics. But, they book pretty fast too. I better get on it.

Thank you very much for your insightfulness.

Monica


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