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This is the first song off my album I intend to write, perform and record in my bedroom before the end of May. I intend it to be a critically acclaimed album! So as my aims are high I welcome all kinds of feedback about any aspect of the song, good or bad.

It's the first song I've mixed on cubase and it's come out a little hot I think, so best to turn your volume down a little before listening!
*********************
I've updated the mix now.

Thanks Lucian.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7304391


In Vain - Words and Music Lucian Shephered (c) 2009

Verse 1

You don't know me
I live on the south side of the street
Next to the crackheads,
And the mother with the three different coloured kids

I've seen you walking
On the north side of the street
You live next to the lawyer
And the couple with the kittens called Pete and Steve

Chorus

North side, south side
The middle I like best
Let's feed ourselves and forget the rest
Social Apartheid, it seems a crying shame
I can't say that I'm free from blame

In the street where a war was fought in vain
Maybe we should grab a gun and fight it again

Verse 2

You must have paid a million
To live on the sunny side of the street
We all pay a pittance,
Thanks for your taxes, you should really keep a receipt

I heard you talking
You said we drag down the whole God damn place
But here lives a poet, a nurse and a teacher and cute chick from southern Spain

Chorus

In the street where a prayer was said in vain
Maybe we should find a faith and pray it again

Bridge

On the South side we're just trying to
Make it through the day
And from the South side, honey, you aint so far away.

Chorus

In the street where a song was sung in vain
Maybe we should have a beer and sing it again

Last edited by lucian; 02/04/09 11:56 AM.

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Alright Mr. Lucian,
You got some chops (does that translate into British?)If not it means skill in low class American.
I have listened closely and the thing I like best is your energy. That sounds kind of trite, but I mean there is a vitality through and through, words, melody, instrumentation.

Sometimes you can hear very energetic music and it is all a facade. As there is not mental energy there. There is here.

Let me give you the advice that a very wise Brit gave me about mixing. Think of it as placing the band on the stage. You have 180 degrees of instruments you can place by panning by degree left to right.
Drums and Bass traditionally dead center. I have heard drums spread out more than that by moving cymbals and stuff like that out of center (beyond me though). And bass can be put on a stereo track and put both far left and right and it can give a more enveloping presence.
Main Vox dead center (though I heard you go right to left on the "north side south side" and I liked it.
Harmonies stereo hard left and right. Just separates them from the main vocal and keeps the integrity of both.
Guitars, keyboards etc, move them around the stage as you like. but by separating instruments it gives them more definition and distinction.
Reverb is used to move instruments to the back of the stage. Or lack of it moves them up front.

Now to the things I don't understand and if you figure them out please tell me how to use them:
Limiters
Compression
Gate
Expander
and for the most part EQ.

About EQ, really good people will reduce (or eliminate) certain frequencies and increase certain frequencies of thier instruments so they don't overlap and are more distict from each other. I have no idea of how to do this. I wish someone who knew what they were doing would sit down with me and explain it in a brain dead manner that I could understand.

Anyway Lucian I hope I did not bore you to death but you mentioned this stuff in my tread and I thought I would tell you what has been told to me.

Good song young man,
Tom

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Hi lucian,

I enjoyed your song. I really like the music progression in the verse, and I liked the amped up vocal sound. I think i agree with Tom, about how it was mixed unless you were going for that garage sound feel. I'm not sure what it is, but the chorus seems to lack something to make it stand out more. (maybe more upfront vocals or harmonies or something .. I don't know).

Good job,
Papa G


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lucian Offline OP
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Tom, thanks for the mixing tips passed on from that wise Britisher - there's a lot of wise people here, lot of dumb ones, too, just like everywhere else I guess.

I've updated the mix now, so hopefully it sounds better. I did the drums for this track from scratch on Monday and mixed it yesterday and it's kind of microwaved my brain a little bit I think. I need to get some studio monitors, can't be good for the ears having kick drums bashing away for hours on end through headphones.

"Mental energy" I like that. I've decided to go down the road of doing my own thing in a certain style, so I'll use that phrase as blurb I think.

Thanks again, Lucian


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lucian Offline OP
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Papa G, thanks for the listen, glad you enjoyed the song. It was my first attempt at mixing a song on my computer and I've just been teaching myself how it all works by clicking and sliding things to see what works best.

I'll look into adding more harmonies to the chorus.

Thanks again, Lucian


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Lucian,

Good morning. Well, it's morning here in St. Louis, Missouri...mid afternoon there. I didn't hear the first mix, so I cannot give you a compare and contrast review. But, based on the second mix alone, I'll pass on my thoughts.

First, I like the song as a whole quite a bit. Tom mentioned mental energy. This song has a lot of it. That is ALWAYS a good thing. The energy in your voice really stands out. I enjoyed your vocal very much. The mix of the instruments sounds pretty good. Not much you need to redo there. The only thing I would do, and this is a personal preference rather than an assumed requirement, is to bring the bass up a bit. Your voice really does drive this; however, the bass line and the percussions are what keeps it all flowing. The percussions are spot on. However, the bass is reltively soft, which marginally diminishes the "drive", the energy, of the track. It doesn't need to be a loud, thumping bass by any means. But, I think bringing it just a little more forward in the mix will be the icing on a very good cake.

You're off to a really good start. Good luck!

Alan

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Lucian,
Yes get some kind of computer monitors as those head phones will make you go deaf sooner than later.
And the beauty of recording some things direct (electric guitars, bass, drums) is that you don't have to ware head phones.

I don't have expensive monitors at all (wish I did but they can be so expensive $500 US per speaker for the less expesive versions).

I just have regular computer speakers about $150 US for the set with a sub. I do the best I can mixing on that and then I burn it to a CD and take it to my home sterio and car sterio and see how it sounds there.

Save your ears, they are crucial!
Tom

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I haven't listened yet, but I will.....
Ummm, I was just curious....what if you were to give the lyric a somewhat happier vibe?
Oh, not trying to take away from the whole picture, but just a little bit more of a smile?


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lucian Offline OP
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Al, thanks for listen and glad you liked it. Regarding the Bass, that's something I'll play about with when my heads stopped spinning, I'll probably distort it a bit with a bit of tube warmth.

That's cool you said the percussion was spot on because a couple of months ago I didn't know a tom tom from a tom cat, amazing what you can do if put your mind to it! Mental energy, yes, I like that term, I think I'm gonna call my album that. Nice to get some good comments on my vocals as well - which hasn't always been the case to say the least!

Thanks again Lucian


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lucian Offline OP
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Tom, I do need to save my ears, yes, especially as I already have a slight touch of tinnitus and hearing loss in one ear because of a perforated ear drum, so don't really need any more.

I've seen decent Studio Monitors for $100 so I'll probably get a pair of them.

Thanks again, Lucian

Oh yeah, "having some chops" isn't an expression we have no, it's a good one, I like it. We have "smacking someone in the chops" here, which is hitting someone in the face. I think the US one is better, but I'll take Autumn ahead of Fall anytime.

Last edited by lucian; 02/04/09 09:34 PM.

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As you know, I complained about the hot mixes in all of your earlier demos, so I am happy to report that this one (2nd mix, I guess) is nearly perfect. The song has a lot of drive and energy. It leans toward the power punk type feel and for that reason (maybe something else too, I don't know), I think it can be shorted to around 3 minutes. I think with songs like this, you've got to hit them hard and leave them wanting more.

I mix under headphones also and while I wish I had studio monitors, it ain't happening right now. The secret is to mix/monitor under lower volumes. Louder volumes always sound more fun and better to the ear, but if it sounds good under low volume (conversational level), that might help overcome the mix in headphones vs. monitors effect. You still have to burn a CD and listen under a couple different systems, though -- and I guess good monitors is the only cure for that.

Anyway, I've rambled on -- but very good song. Just maybe too long at the moment. I've listened three times and my attention starts wander around the 3:00 mark. Maybe just cut the 2nd 20 second break.

Kevin

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Hey Lucian,

I rather enjoyed this one. The music matches your lyric and the lyric is good. Congratulations on getting this mixed on your computer. I just can't even begin to make myself learn even some basic stuff that I know would help me, so I applaud you on this and wish you good luck with your CD.

I guess every big city is like this. You drive from one area to the next and the urban landscape changes rather quickly. People don't seem to "cross" the proverbial street either. I suppose at some time in our adult lives we realize we've confined ourselves to our preceived, self-imposed caste.


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Lucian:

I like it. You've got a great sound musically, and your vocals are distinctive and engaging. I like the musical hooks in the intro and between the verses and the chorus is hookey enough. Excellent bridge (love the ay-ay-ay-ay!)

My only nit is that the energy level drops during the two tag lines at the end of each chorus and then doesn't rise back enough to leave the listener with a rush at the end of them:

In the street where a war was fought in vain
Maybe we should grab a gun and fight it again

and

In the street where a prayer was said in vain
Maybe we should find a faith and pray it again

I was expecting the level to raise back up so that "fight it again" and "pray it again" were tearing it up like at the beginning of the chorus. Instead, it seems to slow down, the pitch is lower and it is just not as interesting musically as the first six lines of the chorus (which were excellent.)

Other than that, I really enjoyed it.

Great ending tone, too!

Mark

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Hi Lucian,

Wow, your voice ROCKS on this one, I'm happy and relieved to say smile

If this is indicative of "your sound" then I'm down for the twenty bucks when your album comes out.

The lyric draws me in to the world of the wrong-side-of-the-street-singer...I love being made privy to "intimate" info like the "cute chick from southern Spain"...

Excellent all the way round, period.

Best wishes,
Mike


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/05/09 05:00 PM.

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Hi Lucian. This is so much better than previous stuff both the performance and recording mixing etc is pretty good.

Now I am going to be hypercritical just to give you one or two pointers.

Watch the levels on some of the tracks they tend to be a bit hi and distorted in places. Some frequencies are cancelling each other out causing a muddy and whistling sound where they overlap. This can be sorted with a little bit of eq and panning each track to a slightly different place. Use your ears to judge the best positions.

The vocals are so much better you are controlling them a bit more and showing some light and shade to accent the important lines and messages...it beats shouting LOL. I would want a de- esser on some bits and perhaps a bit more bass as you tend to be a bit top end. Possibly the mic.. but that can be changed using a multi band eq and a bit of compression. I like the extreme pan "Northside Southside" you use a neat trick. Try duplicating each vocal track and then adding fx to only one track leaving the other dry this adds depth to the voice and a richer sound another neat trick and so effective.

I can find little fault with the song itself and arrangement it rocks....and is well crafted. Perhaps the drums are a bit one dimensional and too much in the back perhaps panned too much in the left. I hear a high end cymbal type ring especially on the left side. The intro is perhaps too sudden and csatches the listener unawares.

All in all you are a fast learner and this shows a huge improvement. Keep up the good work.

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Sam, I didn't really see it as a downbeat lyric, and thought there were a couple of "smiles" in there, maybe that'll come through if/when you listen to the music.

Thanks Lucian


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Kevin, yes, I remember "Hotmix-gate" I think what happened there was I put a song on here (was actually the song that eventually became "I just shot the sun!") with that sickly feeling you get when you know a song still isn't right yet, and you quite correctly pointed out the mix was too hot, and promptly got a telling off from me that was more to do with my own frustrations about not being able to get the song right. Anyway, all water under the bridge now.

Glad you think this mix is almost perfect. "Power punk" I can live that, or maybe something like Post-Punk Blues Rock fusion, that sounds pretty. Maybe I can invent a whole new music style? Unlikley, but you never know...

Good mixing under headphones tips. Regarding song length, I feel like every song has its own natural length, sometimes is 2:30, sometimes is 4:30. Ideally, you want every song to come out between the 3.00 and 3:30, but if you force a song out of its natural length you can damage it a little I feel.

Thanks for the listen and critique,

Lucian


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Hi Lucian... The energy still comes through so nicely on this one just like I felt on others I've listened to of yours....Your melody is very catchy!! and I can sing it back!!...
and I truly enjoyed your vocals.

Very best to you!!....
Kaley smile


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Hi Wendy, glad you enjoyed it. If you get the time, like with your guitar, it can really make a big difference if you can learn something like cubase. It's daunting at first, but it becomes quite intuitive after you first get your head around it.

I'm glad you saw it the wider sense, but, believe it not, this really IS my street. It's only a small Victorian street and on one side, the north side, all the houses are privately owned, and can fetch around a million dollars, although some have been converted into flats so go for less obviously. And on my side, the South Side, nearly all the houses/converted flats are social housing owned by local government, and let out at very low rents to those lucky enough to get them, they're very hard to get and there's usually a story behind how someone came to get one.

The song is actually pretty much all truthful, with obviously names changed and a little artistic license here and there. The woman next door who turned her flat into a crack den got kicked out a while ago and there's a nice Polish family there now.

Thanks for the listen.

Lucian


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Mark, thanks another cool critique.

Glad you like the song and think I've got a distinctive sound. As I've gone down the "doing my own album" route I think it's pretty imperative I develop such a thing.

Your nit is a very good one. Those particular lines in the songs are the ones I had the most trouble with and re-wrote and sang different versions several times before settling on those, and I had to punch in and out to do them, and I find it hard to nail it when doing the "punch in/out" thing, so I'm gonna have to have another go at those lines, and maybe add a little more percussion in that part.

Glad you liked the ending, I felt it had a nice emphatic feel to it. Yes, my Tele 72 Deluxe is pride and joy alright!

Thanks again!

Lucian


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Big Jim, thanks for taking the time to lend your very wise ears to this one. You've been a very big help to me in this place, if I'm Lucian Skywalker, then you've been my Obi Jim Kenobi... I was gonna say someone else here must be Darth Vader and how they hell could THEY be my father!!! I better not though.

Glad you think the song rocks. I'm kind of moving back to my original "indie rock" roots and taking a lot of the stuff I've picked up along the way with me.

I've done a lot of messing around with the eq, compressors and stuff, still not totally in control of it, cubase started drawing its own little lines and graphs in some very odd places so I've learnt you have to keep a very close eye on what it's doing. Like you say, it's all about using your ears and listening to what's going on. I was pleased with my first attempt at cross panning or whatever it's called, with the north side/south side line, so glad you think it came off well.

I know you haven't been too keen on my vocals in the past, so nice to hear you think I've improved! I'm learning to pull back more and keep it more controlled. Vocal effects is next on my list of things to get my head around. I like that duplicating idea. I'll have a go at that. I'll change the panning on the drums as well. The sharp opening was something I noticed when I took the metronome off and I've got a little bass riff in my mind to open it up more smoothly.

Thanks again, Lucian


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Hi Mike Z, glad you liked this one. I took a lot more time over the vocal for this one than I did the shooting sun one so glad it came off well.

Yes, I think this is the sound I'm kind of aiming for on my album - Mental Energy, available on iTunes from June 2009... perhaps. $20 eh? I'll probably put it on for less that cos the dollar exchange rate is pretty good now!

Thanks again.

Lucian

PS, I was gonna do a critique of your world premier song, but you took it down so I'll have a good listen to the new version and post my thoughts on it.


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Don't you worry about that melt your ears thing. Lucian, you have something - this is really a very good song. I don't mean simply in relation to ordinaty songs - I mean compared to anything on the radio. You have something that is called - talent. Really. A few specifics:

The music is excellent - It is powerful, tight, interesting and right on the groove. It is the foundation for this song and works so very well. By this I mean the writing of the music and the musicianship. Unmistakably excellent - as good as anything one could hear.

The lyrics put you on a high plain. These are not ordinary, ok lyrics. They are as good as anything U2, or any other current band is doing. There is an immediate confidence to them. One knows from the first few lines that you are a lyricist. Pure, simple excellence.

The vocals: Same as the lyrics and music - confidence, professionalism, and excellence. On pitch, controlled but dynamic, fine expression, and the phrasing is what phrasing should be. Phrasing is what sets apart an excellent singer from a good one. Your phrasing sets the bar.

This is perhaps the best song I have heard here for several months. It is better than any of the couple thousand songs I have listened to for the music awards screening.

My hat (if I wore one) would be off to you. Do something with this song to get it heard. It deserves everything you can do to push it onto the air - or to a wide audience.

No doubt here - top grade and a great pleasure to listen to.

Tom



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Hey Lucian:

This is a great track to open your CD with - yes, as the others have said, a tremendous amount of energy.

No nits from me - is a great rock lyric and a driving song. Would make a great video too!

Best of luck with your project - if the other songs are like this I think you COULD get critical acclaim.

Gotta know though - is it the couple or the kittens that are named Pete and Steve. Makes a difference smile

Nice one!

Scott

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Kaley, thanks for listen and the compliments, I know my stuff is a bit away from what you do, so glad it you find something in it.

Thanks Lucian


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Tom, wow, what can I say to that! That's the best comment I've had on a song, I'd trade a hundred little fires for one comment like that!

I'm glad you like the basic music. It's something I've worked on a lot recently after realizing my first bunch of songs were written with a fatal misunderstanding: That good lyrics put to "a" melody equals a good song. Wrong. All it equals is "a" song. Without the basic melody and music, there just is no song at all.

I take my lyrics very seriously, yes. I've kind of knocked around a bit in life, and have known some highs and lows, so I like to think "I know a thing or two about a thing or two," as a Robert De Niro character said in one of his films which title escapes me.

I think a song can work with just ok lyrics, if the music and melody is good, but the lyrics are what give a song its life span so that kind of song will often fade away after an initial strong first impression. I think of every song like a little religion. The music is the God, so you want it/Him to be powerful, omiprescent and moving. Religions with weak Gods don't tend to spread very far. The lyrics I see as the prophets sent down by the God. A powerful prophet with a powerful message will still resonate over a long period of time. Anyway, better not go too far down that road!

Vocals. This is something I figured quite early on when I started singing: just how important and what a difference being able to be expressive in some way when you sing makes, it gives life to words and phrasing in itself enriches the music and melody. To write a lyric such as, off the top of my head, "I'm gonna shoot you!" is very easy, to sing that in way that makes the person listening think: "He really is gonna shoot that guy!" is a lot harder, and it what I try and do. And good phrasing can make even the most mundane part of any lyric more memmorable I think.

Well, my plan is just to finish writing and recording an album of quality before marketing it anyway. I've got some ideas about to market it - but I want to get it all finished first.

Anyway, thanks again Tom. Really appreciated!


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Hi Scott, thanks for the listen and comments. Glad you liked it. I've got another song mind for the opening track, but we'll see about that.

Regarding the kittens and the couple, there is a bit of story there, but when you base things in real life and real people you have to be careful about what you say obviously, 'cos they might end up reading what you've written! I wanted to get Baileys - the brown spotted Dalmatian next door named after an alcoholic beverage - in the song as well, but he'll have to wait for another one I guess.

Thanks again Lucian


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Hi Lucian,

Glad I noticed that this was redone. I found it hard to listen to the first time, what with the bleeding ears and all!
Interesting social comment as told first hand, it gives it an honest, immediate feel. The music and your delivery set it off very well. I think I've said it before with your music, you project a lot of energy and soul, and this is no exception. The only thing I will nit, and I have no solution for, is that the south side of anything is usually the sunny side.
This is the cleanest, best developed and produced song of yours to date. You just keep getting better. Never give up!

Ricki

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Hi Lucian,

Finally got to listen to the new mix. It is sounding real good. This song has such a great feel and apeal, I'm liking it more each time I replay it.

I think my mind is playing tricks on me ... but I can hear a sweet harmony in the chorus. smile

Keep rockin dude,
Papa G

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Hi Luce,

Hey, this really rocks! Fantastic voice and style in there, Luc, great spirit. Nice recording chops, too.

Two small things, when I listen through it. I thought you could have made better use of the bridge, telling a bit more about the girl and how to reduce the distance between the north and south side - perhaps treating us with a payoff line at the end of the bridge.

Second, I thought you switched vocal style in there from the rockin to a more syncopated style in the end. I was not fond of that - you should give it everything you've got with the rockin' voice.

But it sounds great, and will do really well as an opener on your CD, I think!

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Hey Ricki, how about that? You got one of my songs for a change! I'm glad about that. Thanks for the kind comments.

Regards your nit, well, if you live on South side of the street, you get a nice sunny south facing garden, but the front of house faces north and gets almost no sun - nice and cool in the summer - so the south side of the street is in the shade of the houses of the South side of the street. The opposite is true of the houses in the North side of the street which face south and get sun at the front and on the street.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

Thanks for the listen, Lucian.


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Papa G, thanks for the additional listens, and kind comments. Harmonies are something I'm working on improving on, but I did try and put a few in the chorus so glad you heard them the 2nd time around.

Thanks again, Lucian.


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Hey Magne, I've never been called Luce or Luc before so that's cool. Glad you liked it.

I kind of liked the bridge as it is, maybe some of it got a bit lost in translation, the singer is kind of saying to her that it could take a couple of bad breaks in her life for her to end up on the South side.

I'm gonna re-record the vocals and some other bits and bobs before it goes on my CD so I'll bear your comments in my mind when I do that.

Thanks again, Lucian


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Lucian,

I'm glad I dropped in to listen to this one. I love it. You definitely have your own style... and to my ear, it's a very good one. This one works all the way around for me. Musically, lyrically, your current arrangement, etc. It's probably the favorite one of yours that I've heard. I don't mean to continue to compare you to Billy Bragg, but I hear him in your work, and I definitely mean that as a compliment. smile Keep songs like this coming and you'll have a damn good album!


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lucian Offline OP
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Rob, thanks for listen, glad you liked it. Well, the Billy Bragg thing, I can't say he's been a big influence on me, but I guess this is a social comment song and we both use Telecasters, but Billy Bragg has both feet on one side in his political views and I try and keep one feet in each side, if you know what I mean. Though he did do "New England" which is favourite of mine I must admit.

Cheers Lucian



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