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Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.
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Mutlu
by Gary E. Andrews - 04/15/24 07:08 PM
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Leafs
by Gary E. Andrews - 04/05/24 01:49 PM
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Completely different song...hope you enjoy it!
DOWNLOAD (right click, save as"):
http://www.garageband.com/mp3/closemike-Some_Kind_of_World_Premiere__Jay_and_Grace_.mp3?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSgZFGwYWk
STREAM (left click, choose "high" or "low" at bottom of "player"):
http://www.garageband.com/mp3player?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSgZFGwYWk
****************************************************************
Some Kind of World Premiere
first his day job then Jay found
he's booted out of the band
gets on a Big Easy Greyhound
one more lost soul headed for... la la land
Grace escapes her ex-boyfriend
with just one slightly black eye
leaves Mobile around four a.m.
for her mom in Van Nuys
Jay and Grace find each other
on a half empty bus
both in need of some comfort
no hidden motives to suss
they get to talkin' 'bout Star Wars
camped out for episode three
Jedi were havin' some hard times
soon Luke and Leia would come to be...
and they agree that sure was
some kind of world premiere
for a few precious moments, they felt the force was near
spotlights in the night sky, ev'rything was clear, that was
some kind of world premiere
Jay and Grace talk in sweet tones
through the heart of the night
the droning hum from that ramblin' bus
calming music amidst...desp'rate flight
they get to L.A. round mid-day
the first hotel they can find
looks like an old run down movie house
with an unlit neon sign
Jay and Grace touch each other
as if...to start a new myth
just a couple lost Jedi
in a world full of Sith
around midnight they wake up
strange sights and sounds
outside of their window
neon...flashin'...crazy...really goin' to town
and they know they are
some kind of world premiere
they're ready for the world, it all starts right now, right here
who knows what they'll do next, it's all one big frontier, they're
some kind of world premiere
some kind of world premiere
they share a little kiss, and shed a hopeful tear
the moon looks like a spotlight, ev'rything seems clear, they're
some kind of world premiere
((C)2009 Michael Zaneski)
**************************************************************
"...there's so much beauty in the world, sometimes I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in"
--Alan Ball from his screenplay "American Beauty"
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/05/09 11:28 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Good Morning Mike I just had a quick listen.... and first impression - sounds awesome.... I'll come back after I listen more.  jm
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Mike,
Just took a listen. I like it! Nice Fx on the vocals! For a soft voice, you carry a strong vocal. I particularly enjoyed the chorus. That really sold me on the song. And that's what a chorus is supposed to do.
Only saw one thing that made me think twice in the lyric. the word "suss" is rather uncommon. As I read the lyric, that ereally jumped out at me. But, as I listened, it flowed just fine. I doubt any of your listeners are going to have a lyric sheet in front of them; so it's probably no big deal.
Nice song...nice performance.
Alan
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Mike, nice song...so totally different...big star wars fans will love it...music has a nice feel, i'm going to mention that there is not much dynamic to it meaning changes in intensity, but with as far as this is along in production i'm sure that's on purpose, so good luck with whatever your plans are for this piece...do something with it, it's better than to let it just sit, put it out there somehow...be well...moker
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What an absolutely charming song! I love the way the story unfolds, and can relate to so much of it: e.g. Star Wars, riding through the night on Greyhound buses...(although no such love story ever developed for me.  ) Great chorus melody, and having different text in each chorus is a nice touch. Good work, Michael.  Donna
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Hi Joice Marie,
"Awesome" is the new "cool", lol, so thanks, and hope your feelings outlast another listen or two at least!
Best wishes,
Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Hi AL,
Thanks for the positive feedback; I do most of my singing during the day while I take care of my mom, and so am kind of forced into the "bedroom voice"...
I noticed I used the phrase "suss out" for the first time earlier that day, though I had heard and read it a bunch of times, so I was kinda happy to have worked it into the context of a critique, then later that night I started on this, and it once again appeared as a viable rhyme for "bus"...and yeah, I don't think I've ever heard it in a song either...
Thanks again,
Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/05/09 07:11 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Posts: 12,082 Likes: 1
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Yeah, it's different alright. Last one was like Arlo Guthrie. This one seems closer to Lou Reed. This is very well written, Michael. You have used the hook more effectively than in the previous version and the story is a little easier to follow. Production is really nice. The music and the lyric both changed in the right direction to match each other. I think most will probably say this is improved. This is great, but I still like the other one. Can't explain why because this one is better in most objective ways - aaah the mystery of music. Scott
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Hi Mike,
just listened, I can`t offer much, but the lyrics[story] make you want to listen, there are effects in the music I really liked. even with the volume turned up, I found myself leaning foward in my seat, so I didn`t miss anything, it had that effect on me. great song. Lane
"Blessed are the words of truth and fiction,
one might save you from the other...Vincent
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I have no idea what "suss out" but sounded good anyway,lol. Nice production. Heard the original version too. It's really changed a lot. Liked the star wars references too.
http://www.soundclick.com/louistwinn"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." Thoreau
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Hello Mike, I love everything about the vocals ... especially the melody of the first two verses. The vocal FX are amazing. In verse 3 if I didn't look at the words I would have thought you had said a profane "f" word "Jay and Grace fxxx each other" I am a big Star Wars fan also ... but the Luke and Leia part sounded kind of corny to me (plus I like Han and Chewy better I really wanted to hear your voice louder in the chorus. It still sounds like you are whispering until the last "some kind of world premiere" which really stands out (excellent) i love that part. Also I like the scat at the end ... very cool. (Maybe you can top it off with some Wookie or Ewok noises ... just kidding) Great song ... and production. I enjoyed it a lot. PapaG
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Michael,
This is an extrodinary song.
Was this professionally done? I don't think so as a pro demo house don't do work that is this complex.
If it was not professionally done did you play all the instruments? Was that a Strat at 1:52? Love that sound you got.
This is an awesome accomplishment. Man there is some talent on this board right now. I been on it a long time and this is the best it has been ever. Some real talented songwriters.
BTW, I agree with you on Babette's song is that awesome or what?
Tom
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around midnight they wake up
strange sights and sounds
outside of their window
neon...flashin'...crazy...really goin' to town
Hi Michael. I really like this a lot. Great story. The above image is really superb IMO.... and it comes at just the right spot. I love the sound you've got on your vocal. I've gotta say, I don't particularly care for the 'suss' line. It's an unconventional use of the word and I think you're going to confuse a lot of listeners. The other suggestion I have is that the section starting with "Jay and Grace talk in sweet tones" needs a bit more musical development. I know you do a little bit of changing up in this section but it's not enough IMO. You need to grab the listener with more change in the arrangement... adding something... taking away something... just do something different to grab the listener and keep him/her involved. Anyway really good work. I really like this. Peace, Ian
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Lou Reed vibe...I like this...great vocal and production
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Mike:
This is unique and interesting. I really enjoyed it. Great production. The story got me involved and kept me there. I really like how the hook took on a different meaning at the end of each verse. Very well done. Also, I thought your use of a revolving chorus was very effective. (I usually feel pretty lucky if I can get everything to rhyme in one version of the chorus!)
My only nit would be that at the start of the second verse they were still on the bus. The first four lines seemed to bog the story down a bit for me. I would have liked to see the second four lines moved to the start of the second verse and some new action added after that. Just a thought.
This was a pleasure to listen to.
Mark
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Mike, I think this is a really interesting and ambitious song, I think there's some ways it could be improved though and I think it could end up being a really excellent song. In the first couple of verses, there was quite a few things I had to check on google because I wasn't sure what they were. I knew Greyhound, but would every non-American? I didn't know Mobile was a city in Alabama and thought it was a gas station or something, and I had no idea what Van Nuys was. Maybe once in a song it's OK to ask the listener to google things but four or five times is a bit much I think, so it would open the song up to a wider audience by choosing places and things more widely known outside America. The Star Wars references worked well because everyone knows those, except Sith perhaps, and didn't Yoda say something like "Always 2 there are, never one, never more..." so the whole world can't be full of Siths.
Anyway, so the first couple of verses work well overall, then there's a nice melody change that works well, then it's another verse bit. I'm wondering if you could drop this part and view the melodic change that happens has a kind of pre-chorus and then go to the chorus. The chorus itself is top notch, "for a few precious moments, they felt the force was near" your voice came shining through here and it's a real nice, nailed on melodic structure. And the chorus ends with a great sense of resolution.
But here after the song drags a bit I think. And I think something could be chopped or tightened up. I think perhaps you're are trying to be too much of a storyteller and the story is compromising the song and taking it over and smothering it. I see this again when the chorus comes back. I'm waiting for the real nice 2nd line and it doesn't come back. You want to tell more story so some words are added and a much less effective and unsatisfying line is delivered.
It's a kind of unique song like it is, so you may want to keep it that way, but, in some cases, it's better to go back to a more tried and trusted structure, especially when you've got a solid melody and excellent chorus, and personally I would re-work it in a Verse, Verse, Pre-chorus, Chorus, Verse, Verse, Pre-Chorus Chorus structure and see where you go from there. As I said, the Star Wars references generally work, but maybe in 30 years no-one will know what Star Wars was so I'd say perhaps drop them as well. I get feeling you belt out words at a pretty rapid rate, so I'd say try out a few ideas and see what works best to fulfill this song's potential.
Anyway, just some ideas.
Lucian
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Hi Mike,
Didn't get around to comment on the first version, but I see you have tightened up the lyrics quite a bit. The production is very well done and your voice, while a bit monotone, works well here. I thought at first that the Star Wars references would date this, and it does, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a slice of life story with our pop culture woven into it that takes place at a specific point in time. Overall, very entertaining and nicely done.
Ricki
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Mike, nice song...so totally different...big star wars fans will love it...music has a nice feel, i'm going to mention that there is not much dynamic to it meaning changes in intensity, but with as far as this is along in production i'm sure that's on purpose, so good luck with whatever your plans are for this piece...do something with it, it's better than to let it just sit, put it out there somehow...be well...moker Hi Moker, Thanks for the encouragement. I plan on one more pass to liven up things after the first chorus..."Star Wars references" was my "muse" playing a funny trick on me, because in the previous "country swing" version that's on the next page of posts, I made an "oblique reference" to Star Wars that kinda made no sense...but I woke up about ten days ago and realized Star Wars held the key to making the title work as a repeated hook (in the old version, it came once at the end of the song)... This one'll eventually go on a new album (album? I must be old, lol), where I completely give in to what I call "pastiche vocals" and sing different parts of a song like different band members...Thanks again for the very kind words. --Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
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What an absolutely charming song! I love the way the story unfolds, and can relate to so much of it: e.g. Star Wars, riding through the night on Greyhound buses...(although no such love story ever developed for me. ) Great chorus melody, and having different text in each chorus is a nice touch. Good work, Michael. Donna Hi Donna, I'm glad you like how the story unfolds; I tried to "listen" to what the story wanted and so have extra bars of just music in the "desperate flight" part, knowingly making some listeners impatient...later I figured I wanted to get across that long bus ride feel, by lingering there, before the "they get to L.A." verse...thanks again for appreciating the "unfolding"-ness, and for listening... --Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,762 Likes: 23
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Yeah, it's different alright. Last one was like Arlo Guthrie. This one seems closer to Lou Reed. This is very well written, Michael. You have used the hook more effectively than in the previous version and the story is a little easier to follow. Production is really nice. The music and the lyric both changed in the right direction to match each other. I think most will probably say this is improved. This is great, but I still like the other one. Can't explain why because this one is better in most objective ways - aaah the mystery of music. Scott Hey Scott The other one is joyful and lighter spirited, this one sad, with a crack of light at the end...but they must be hard to compare since they're so fundamentally different... I'm still learning how to sit and focus and let the lyric happen "organically" which is to me the fundamental difference between a craftsman and an artist. A craftsman tends to superimpose preconceived notions, an artist tends to wait and let a piece "speak" and tell him/her what it needs, imo...still learning to patiently wait and focus, but it can be awful because you also have to forget everything you know for this to work, as an organic process...still learning... Scott, I'm happy you liked either of these ...and feel lucky and grateful you lend my "ongoing process" some of your time, thanks again. --Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/08/09 10:37 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Boy, I'll say completely different from the first version I heard! Wow. Mike, I really liked this. Given the fact you so readily tore the last version down, leaving only a few bones, and built it back up so quickly implies to me that you've got incredible talent, and lots of ideas. Your production on this song, and the melody is captivating to me. I really love the chorus in that regard. If I would have read the lyrics all the way through before listening, I would have wagered that I would have been a little distracted before I got to the end of the song (mostly because of the Star Wars references... not really my bag ), but you hooked me, reeled me in, and kept me for all 4:40. Nice. I like this a lot: around midnight they wake up strange sights and sounds outside of their window neon...flashin'...crazy...really goin' to town Especially compared to version 1. Very well done. Now... on to my comment about Star Wars. I really like the way you're taken your title and used a movie to make it all 'work' throughout. Personally, I would have preferred that movie to be some other 'classic' film... ideally a love story about a couple of loners or people trying to escape their lives. Nothing's coming to mind right now, but I think you get my point. I just don't see your kind of 'slice of life' story aligning well with Star Wars. MHO only. All that aside, I think is very well done. I really enjoyed listening.
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Hi Mike Told ya I'd be back ! Still love it - chorus melody in particular - Love the percussion All around - love you vocals as Usual - ha - like where the extra layer of strings/?horn comes in and carries to the end okay here's what I'd like to change /add where that bell rings ( the first time .54 ) feels a Wee bit loud and then it was a long time to the next one..... Jay and Grace find each other* Jay and Grace talk in sweet tones............. so I wanted one here - the second one did not feel too loud...... anyway - it's a nice 'touch' Jay and Grace touch each other* Pretty picky huh? Great work Mike !
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Hi Lane, It makes me happy to hear I had you captivated there! There's a little more work to be done, and the positivity does translate into energy over here, so really, thanks --Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Hi Louis,
Yeah, "suss" works well enough contextually "no hidden motives to suss".. kind of explains its meaning.
Thanks, I'm pretty insecure about my voice since I lost an octave about 10 years ago, but if I ever catch myself building a big production just to cover it up, I hope I have character enough to admit as much to myself and create a more honest accompanying music.
One more thumbs up for Star Wars references, YAY...It was like a crossword puzzle clue: I needed a movie associated with having had a big "world premiere" so I could make my changing hook work...I had used a "Star Wars" reference rather obliquely in the old version. I think that was my "trickster muse" throwing the answer out there for me to see...lucky I caught it!
Best wishes,
--Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Hi PapaG,
If you are ever in the position, you might want to look into switching over to producing music through computer software. I use a few choice "virtual instruments", but my sequencer (FL Studio) is still not too expensive, and there's a ton of great freeware out there in terms of effects, virtual instruments, samples, etc...
It would cost you about ten times the investment to sound "pro" with music hardware. PC music production has helped me get to a level where I'm working intuitively with this stuff, and I still have a few cents left at the end of the day to eat with...
Thanks for all the positive comments, I truly appreciate that you took the time to listen, and am flattered you enjoyed it so!
best wishes,
Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/09/09 06:02 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Mike, First - I have to tell my Greyhound story. I rode the bus all night once. Sat by this dude who had a phone book in his lap and made odd drooling noises while scanning the pages with his finger and quickly flipping the pages. He was pretty disfigured and had a nose that even Stephen King could not have described accurately. The only time he spoke to me was when we passed under some lights on the highway. He said, "I've never eaten cottage cheese on the highway before." I was sure that my body would never be found.. The production of this song and your vocal especially were really good. You are obviously very talented. I think you have two stories working here. I think there's a Greyhound bus love story and there's a Star Wars love story. If this were mine, I would either get rid of the bus and rewrite the lyric to incorporate the Star Wars idea, or get rid of Star Wars and make it love on a bus. I have a mental image of Star Wars fans being somewhat geeky people, spending their bucks on action figures and camping out all night for the movie premiere..but I can't see them riding Greyhound. I personally like the bus angle better, but if it were me, I would make it an infatuation and/or fantasy about the girl on the bus. Kind of funny, touching, and unresolved. I realize that will not work with your "World Premiere" hook though, and I like that idea of a "first performance" working for the love relationship. I had a thought that if you kept them on the bus, so to speak, maybe you could incorporate a similar device such as a "world famous" roadside stop. But I have no great suggestion as to how to do this. Anyway, keep or sweep as they say. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has spent years listening to Leonard Cohen, is a sucker for sadness, and whose kid refers to her as Eyore.
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Hi Tom, Thanks for the kind words! I believe those where strat "samples" ... all the guitar in there is a free sample set from "pettinhouseDOTcom" who gives away some incredible stuff in the hopes that we'll want to buy the full versions. Of the complete guitar, he offered the "root and mid" position samples, and reduced the number of actual samples per note in the sample set...I then ran the lead through a tremolo patch for a "sample engine" called "Kontakt" given away as freeware by a guy named "dynamitec", who currently is building the most comprehensive virtual guitar to date... ...yeah...entering a depression and musicians get more creative somehow, lol...Thanks again... --Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/10/09 06:12 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,762 Likes: 23
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Hi Ian, I'm glad you like this, and I agree about something there in and around the "sweet tones" section, and understand those that feel it drags a little there...I on purpose did extend the song by 4 bars after "des'prate flight" to spark the sensation of a lingering bus ride (and do it after "la la land as well) ... but that's even more reason to add "scenery" there...no doubt they'd be looking out the window a little to break up the monotony themselves! Thanks for the great suggestion, this idea seems to grow organically from the story...I appreciate your keen ear on this! ... Best wishes, Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/10/09 06:19 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Hi Ted,
Yeah, totally Lou Reed in the first two verses and the verses after the first chorus...I noticed my voice was leaning that way as I was learning how to sing this, and then said, "Well...If I fight this, it'll just sound half-assed, go for the Lou Reed there...same thing with the Donovan part--couldn't make the "Jay and Grace find each other" and "Jay and Grace touch each other" parts work...UNTIL I heard that kind of "ceremonial-hippie-mass" sound that Donovan puts in his voice and music...so those sections sound like Donovan...so this song is an adventure in "pastiche vocals", and it was like FINALLY giving in to something I've wanted to do for a long time...it certainly won't be the last....
....thanks for listening, Ted, glad you enjoyed it!!
--mIKE
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/10/09 06:26 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Very interesting Mike
I found myself rooting for the song to be good as it went on, which is good...Personally I found the laid back vocal style WITH the effects AND the way you pronounced the words...well...honestly it was hard for me to understand them, I had to look at the words...this is kinda a STORY song...one that is wrapped in cloak of rhythm...and the groovy rhythm COULD be enough to carry it...but I feel that if you could just enunciate the lyric better it would elevate the song another notch...I agree with Wendy too, the couple, the bus, AND the star wars theme keep it a little unfocused...but alot of folks like that...
I hope this made sense LOL...good job...OOhhhh and I want you to know i LOVE your American Beauty quote...one of the best movies I can remember
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Great panning on the instruments. It really adds a greater deal of depth and demonstrates the extra thought that has gone into the whole production.
The vocal is great. I would imagine it would be easy to let this run away with you and overdo it - glad you showed restraint.
Amazing song.
Be cool.
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Hi...Mike...Well I think your voice is totally cool...and I loved everything that was going on with the music!. Everything was put together so well.... I'm especially loving it when you come in with the 2nd chorus... and you have a super cool outro too!!..... It's different......unique for sure....in a way...it reminds me of that song (not the message or the words but style of lyric) where the gal drops her pocketbook in the store...when she sees an old love....and they get in the taxi cab.... Mind you, not the words or what they're saying...but just how everything is connected.... Anyways....Enjoyed my listen(s)....took me long enough to tell ya.... Very best.... Kaley
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Mike:
This is unique and interesting. I really enjoyed it. Great production. The story got me involved and kept me there. I really like how the hook took on a different meaning at the end of each verse. Very well done. Also, I thought your use of a revolving chorus was very effective. (I usually feel pretty lucky if I can get everything to rhyme in one version of the chorus!)
My only nit would be that at the start of the second verse they were still on the bus. The first four lines seemed to bog the story down a bit for me. I would have liked to see the second four lines moved to the start of the second verse and some new action added after that. Just a thought.
This was a pleasure to listen to.
Mark Hi Mark, Thanks for the nice comments. The problem was that I had "markers" in the song--things that had to happen to get the hook to work: they had to arrive in the neon-lit motel during the day in order to wake up that night and "make the repeated hook work", lol... Also, I wanted the song to be open-ended, so we really don't know what they do at the end... Then I complicated things by trying to let the rest of the material grow organically, in spite of the "check points" that they had to hit... Having traveled cross-country on bus several times, I truly did want to distill in a verse, what that's like, and I'm not unhappy with it...but I can understand others wanting more details about them--what they do and all... Best wishes, Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Posts: 5,762 Likes: 23
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Mike, I think this is a really interesting and ambitious song, I think there's some ways it could be improved though and I think it could end up being a really excellent song. In the first couple of verses, there was quite a few things I had to check on google because I wasn't sure what they were. I knew Greyhound, but would every non-American? I didn't know Mobile was a city in Alabama and thought it was a gas station or something, and I had no idea what Van Nuys was. Maybe once in a song it's OK to ask the listener to google things but four or five times is a bit much I think, so it would open the song up to a wider audience by choosing places and things more widely known outside America. The Star Wars references worked well because everyone knows those, except Sith perhaps, and didn't Yoda say something like "Always 2 there are, never one, never more..." so the whole world can't be full of Siths.
Anyway, so the first couple of verses work well overall, then there's a nice melody change that works well, then it's another verse bit. I'm wondering if you could drop this part and view the melodic change that happens has a kind of pre-chorus and then go to the chorus. The chorus itself is top notch, "for a few precious moments, they felt the force was near" your voice came shining through here and it's a real nice, nailed on melodic structure. And the chorus ends with a great sense of resolution.
But here after the song drags a bit I think. And I think something could be chopped or tightened up. I think perhaps you're are trying to be too much of a storyteller and the story is compromising the song and taking it over and smothering it. I see this again when the chorus comes back. I'm waiting for the real nice 2nd line and it doesn't come back. You want to tell more story so some words are added and a much less effective and unsatisfying line is delivered.
It's a kind of unique song like it is, so you may want to keep it that way, but, in some cases, it's better to go back to a more tried and trusted structure, especially when you've got a solid melody and excellent chorus, and personally I would re-work it in a Verse, Verse, Pre-chorus, Chorus, Verse, Verse, Pre-Chorus Chorus structure and see where you go from there. As I said, the Star Wars references generally work, but maybe in 30 years no-one will know what Star Wars was so I'd say perhaps drop them as well. I get feeling you belt out words at a pretty rapid rate, so I'd say try out a few ideas and see what works best to fulfill this song's potential.
Anyway, just some ideas.
Lucian Hi Lucian, I figured you as a Dylan fan, so am surprised that you didn't know "Mobile" was a town in the south ("stuck inside of mobile with the memphis blues again")... I originally wrote a completely lyric, it's probably a page back, that just used the title once near the end...So probably would be more open to "deconstruction time again" if I hadn't just gone through that... I like the compromise that Ian Ferrin suggested, too, which is to add another layer of music in the "des'prate flight" verse, running up until the "Jay and Grace touch eachother" part...that at least seems like something within grasp...I tend to use up all of a songs available energy in a few long fits and outbursts of creativity...this particular lyric was written and produced in five days...but so intense was I that I have probably burnt myself out on during too much more to it, at least for awhile... Thanks for the critical ear, and I do take everything you say seriously, because I consider you "serious" about your own craft as well... --Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/11/09 08:53 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Hi Mike,
Didn't get around to comment on the first version, but I see you have tightened up the lyrics quite a bit. The production is very well done and your voice, while a bit monotone, works well here. I thought at first that the Star Wars references would date this, and it does, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a slice of life story with our pop culture woven into it that takes place at a specific point in time. Overall, very entertaining and nicely done.
Ricki
Hi Ricki, Thanks for the kind words. I needed some movie associated with a strong world premiere to make the recurring hook work, and I knew Star Wars had to be it--though I hadn't seen one Star Wars movie. But the Wikipedia entries spoke volumes of poetry to me..."Sith" being into "conflict" and all, that I knew I had my two characters...Story-telling within the confines of a lyric is weird, because so much has to be left out...unless of course you use a whole bunch more words, but then the "lyricism" suffers... Star Wars will probably be around as long as common "space travel" is something we only dream about...so I'm probably okay for a little while... Best wishes, MIke
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/11/09 09:03 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Hi Rob, Thanks! It's weird how the evolution of this was "forced"...First, "Star Wars" was forced by needing a movie associated with the kind of world premiere that was newsworthy, so the hook would work... Then I needed to find two characters that would have different reasons for moving to Cali at approximately the same time...Once "Van Nuys" was locked in, "Lou Reed" style became the focus of the "A" section, and so forth and so on... ...yeah the verse you like is where the story climaxes; I'm so happy no one has found "the mechanics" ...how I've manipulated to get them in a hotel, during the day, with an unlit neon sign (all this FORCED), so I could THEN make the hook work......ah, lyric writing is so much fun.... talk to you soon, __mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/13/09 06:58 AM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Hi Joice Marie,
I always try to buy some new "virtual instrument" for each song...(YCMTL will have a kalimba) ...those were "Tibetan Bells", and happened to be the very first orchestration idea I had, before I put down any music...and were the very last thing I actually recorded on day five...I'll look into the volume; it IS meant to be a little startling, like in a Buddhist ceremony, to direct ones attention to the bell sound, and focus on it, but in this song may be better a wee bit softer...I'm glad you enjoy this...
talk to you soon,
--Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,762 Likes: 23
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Hi Wendy, The guy on the Greyhound that sat next to you sounds like one of your B movie creatures, lol...I rode cross country to and from New York, New Orleans (twice), and Nashville, living in each city for a few years...Ah, the one luxury of working for an expanding record store chain "Tower Records" ...now defunct... ...I never made such a connection on a bus myself, in fact, was always very reserved, but did find the "drone" of the bus, and the general excitement of being "in transit" to be very good for creativity. Two stories? I think the Star Wars stuff is not competing with the two characters. The Star Wars stuff defines who they are, and with a couple of lines, because of the strength of the Zahn creations, was able to tell so much about the two in one single line ...(Mike pats himself on the back, lol...)...that line being "just a couple lost Jedi in a world full of Sith", which to me, is the whole of their personalities and their motives, and their future right there...they've found each other, and the whole world may be hostile and Sith-like, but it doesn't really matter anymore...SO, I disagree about two stories. Can't characters in a story "like something"...something that gives them something in common? Anyway, I bet you'd be fun to travel with on a bus; the dullest moments would be fodder for your fertile imagination... Best wishes, Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/13/09 05:38 AM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Hi Herbie,
Yeah, there's a couple places in the lyric I choose "ambiance" over moving the story along, like "the droning of that rambling bus"...but I admit it's a conceit of mine, since I've traveled so much on Greyhound, to talk about my favorite part of the ride--the drone that relaxes me and puts me in a creative mood...I was able to imagine my two characters would find such solace in that droning sound...
As I explained to Wendy, I disagree and don't think "Star Wars" does anything more than to help define to a listener who they are, the "world full of Sith" being key into understanding them. There's really just a few lines that mention Star Wars, and "the force"...so it's more like "hey, we have something in common, I feel like I know you already"...kinda feeling I wanted to get across on the bus...it's always a challenge with story telling in a lyric cuz there's so little space to do it, AND keep the "lyricism" high...what happens if it gets really "wordy", is that the story swallows up everything--music, ambiance, subtlety...
I tell you,. I mic'd myself so close for most of this, I was getting some mouth and lip noise! ...lol...and so, yes, probably did under enunciate in places, but it's a trade off cuz I had to close mic to get "the sound" I got on this...you are the first to comment on having trouble with the words...
Yes, American Beauty, great film...My quote is from Ricky Fitts, the son of the retired Marine (Chris Cooper), who also has that AMAZING scene describing "the piece of garbage" that was flying around in the little movie he had made...
Thanks for stopping by, Herbie, best wishes!
--Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/13/09 06:07 AM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Posts: 5,762 Likes: 23
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Thanks Ian,
The main inspiration for the music is a group of fellow Brits "Tindersticks" who play some rather dark, goth and folk influence pop music. "youtube" them, you'd enjoy them...
Some songs want big vocals; this one didn't. I like how Kristi (Mckeever) described it as a kind of " secret singing"...
Thanks for the kind words, and all the best to you!
--mIKE
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,762 Likes: 23
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Hi Kaley,
Thanks for listening, and I'm glad you enjoyed it...I'm trying to think of the song you're thinking of...hey, you're a fellow "ellipsis freak!!........haha...it's not Harry Chapin's "Taxi" cuz that starts IN a cab...hmmm...I'll try googling that...
Thanks again and best wishes,
--Mike
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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