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#682130 - 01/15/09 01:51 AM The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists  
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WriterTomYeager Offline
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WriterTomYeager  Offline
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Harrisonburg,Virtginia
i would like a publisher or label A&R guy to please explain to me just what "holds" are because that is one is one subject nashville songwriters always use a multitude of expletives about........In SONG WRITERS MARKET-there are 3 types of holds described and they are

A SOFT HOLD
A HARD HOLD
A CUT HOLD

i guess refer to the likelyhood of th songs getting on a CD and the strength of the artists interest in them....i have continually heard of some major artists putting holds on a large number of songs and then putting the writers through something closely resembling chinese water torture for whatever length of time they feel like-and usually-in the end-never doing the song at all........so if someone knowledgeable about this process would respond I would greatly appreciate it............and please be specific i.e. can writers refuse holds-are contracts signed when holds are placed on songs etc etc....if this subject has been covered before at length please forgive me.......i do know about reversion clauses in contracts-basically telling the publishers/labels/artists thou shalt use it or lose it within x amount of time....this seems to be a shadowy area in the biz where writers are jacked around alot............i look forward to your replies-and also welcome the experiences of writers who have endured this process

Tom

#682208 - 01/15/09 09:35 AM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: WriterTomYeager]  
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Marvin Adcock Offline
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Hi Tom,

Interesting question, and you hit the nail on the head with the referral to Chinese water torture. My worst (and best) experience with holds was when Kenny Rogers label, Capital Records, put a song of mine on hold for over 6 months. Immediately after that the same song was put on hold by Randy Travis label, Warner Bros., again for several months. Both times the song made it to the very end, but alas never made the albums. After the appropriate amount of time in mourning I decided there must be a reason the song was a near miss both times, so I did another rewrite and although the song had a great demo I just finished recording both a new male and female demo at Bayou Studio in Nashville and I have to admit....it is a much stronger song now. I guess the moral of the story is never give up. We have already had interest again in the song just from the rough mix straight off the board. I received the finished mixes yesterday so LET THE PITCHING BEGIN! Anyhow...that's one of my experiences with holds. Thanks again for an interesting discussion.

Marvin

#682295 - 01/15/09 04:36 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marvin Adcock]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well,
I think Holds are usually on songs that are signed to Publishers so you may never hear about it unless the Publisher tells you about it. And usually the Publisher is a Major Publisher who you may not even be able to submit to.

And usually Major Publishers won't give a reversion clause so that is another item the songwriter has to deal with.

If someone wanted to put a hold on one of my songs I would ask for a written time limit and most likely a statement from the Artist that he was giving strong consideration to recording the song, Also notification if they finally passed on the song. These things would probably never be given but I would ask for them anyway. Most likely they would also want Publishing if they cut the song. No problem on that. Remember everything can be negotiated no matter what level of the music business you are dealing on.

My Publisher friend had a song of his recorded and released in South Africa as I recall. I think it was on EMI, a Major release. It seems he has never gotten anything from it as something got lost in the shuffle.

Another Artist recorded one of his songs but again he never got anything as I recall.

Do! make sure all paperwork is in order if you get something going on one or more of your songs.


Ray E. Strode
#686134 - 01/27/09 02:13 AM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Brian Baughn Offline
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A hold is basically a handshake "right of first refusal". You can do what you want, but if you tell someone you're giving them a hold on your song and then let someone else cut it before clearing it up with the "holder", he's gonna be ticked off...you've got to consider relationships.

You can always pitch a song on hold if you're up front with the listener. That's how you get 2nd and 3rd holds on hot songs. I wish I could say it happened a lot when I was pitching songs every day but it was rare for our company!

Marvin...I used Bayou many times a few years back, starting when George opened it after his Fireside days. How's he doing?


末末末末末末末末末
Brian Baughn
BaughnSongs
#686200 - 01/27/09 09:21 AM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Brian Baughn]  
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Marvin Adcock Offline
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Hi Brian,

George is still recupperating from his hearth attack, but last I heard he was doing good. He was a very lucky man. Our last session was without George because of this, but the crew who work for him did an excellent job on the board.

Marvin

#686392 - 01/27/09 09:46 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Brian Baughn]  
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WriterTomYeager Offline
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thanks for the clarification Brian

from what i have seen and heard this business of accepting a hold is probaly not something i would wanna do myself......its just too ambiguous(look mommy-i just used a Big word)......i would rather have a song contract or a flat out rejection......i dont know any place in nashville that accepts "maybe money"......i either have it or i dont........

Tom

#686405 - 01/27/09 10:10 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: WriterTomYeager]  
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Brian Baughn Offline
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You won't even get a request for mechanical license until the record has been out for a while. But rejection is immediate...so...no problem there!


末末末末末末末末末
Brian Baughn
BaughnSongs
#687550 - 01/31/09 12:46 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Brian Baughn]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Tom,

My name is Marc-Alan Barnette. I am a singer songwriter teacher, living in Nashville. I work with writers from all perspectives and help them negotiate the minefields of the music industry without killing themselves or going broke. Having just produced and helped developed an aritst/writer to the level of getting a major record deal, let me see if I can "flip the desk" on the "hold" system in order to shine a little light. If you have heard this please forgive me, I am new here.

In the course of an artist recording a record, there are many steps that are made. In today's market, most artists are also the primary writer on most of their material. This can be good or bad, but essential. Rampant ilegal downloading took most of the monetary rewards out of the industry for all but the biggest performing songs and even some of those don't generate the revenue they once did. So artists are now expected to be a big part of the writing of the material in addition to the artist share for publishing revenue. Basically, it costs so much to do business, record companies are needing every dime they get to stay alive.

So in the course of a project search, there will be dozens of directions music comes from. First and formost, the artist, their producer, friends of friends, major writer (Steele, Wiseman, etc.) major publishers, major pluggers, independents with track record, independents with no track record, Taxi, etc. On the most recent George Straight project the reviewed over 3000 songs. And when the artist owns their own publishing company, well you get the idea.

The idea of the "hold" comes from when one representative of that artist, label, etc. "hold" on to the song in order to play it for someone ahead of them on the pecking order of picking the project. Since it takes a long time to get them to the artists, or producers, songs must be "held" while life takes place.
If you think of it from the artists point of view, they are on the road, promoting their current release, doing interviews, videos, working almost non-stop, while at the same time reviewing songs submitted by their collective sources. and of course, they are writing themselves because they want cuts on their own projects. If you wonder why so many of the same names seemingly have all the cuts, look at the names on the videos or credits. They are writing with the artists or producing them or involved in the publishing, production side of the artists career. In the last few years, most of the hit writers (actually all of them,) are developing the acts before they even get record deals, so they have first shot at all music slots. I have done this on a new artist, Frankie Ballard, who was offered a major deal with a major label yesterday (Jan. 29. 09')You are the one taking your blood sweat (often money) to get these people to that point so you are first beneficiary.

Producers are always producing products and still screen material. But they might not be on that project yet. So you will get an undetermined "hold' until that project comes up. And in the day to day reality of the industries, artists lose deals much faster and with more frequency than they get them. And for every artist you see out there, there are fifty to sixty in some form of "development" most of which will never see the light of day from a record company.

So that is what we go through on the "other side of the desk." and why to get "firm holds" you have to be close to the source. It is not that people are putting you off, it is just that there are several levels to get through to even get heard and you are quite literally asking someone to put your song ahead of their own.
A hold just means that it is being played in the overall scheme of things. It never has meant a whole lot outside of "Well, we don't hate this as much as we hate some other stuff." It does mean that someone wants to put their personal reputation on your work, which is the most sincere form of flattery if you think of it. You can pitch songs to others while a hold exists, but just have to tell people, "it is on hold for so and so." This is just part of doing business, and it has more to do with economic climate and the corporate level of music business just like the rest of society.

The overall truth of the matter is that none of us are very likely to get cuts. Actually you are more likely to be struck by lightning than get a cut and more likely to get struck by lightning in a submarine underwater than get a hit. But you can up the level of your odds, by writing great songs, with people who can help you pitch and advance your overall career, build a networking reputation, doing great sounding demos, and shotgunning your opportunities. The more activity, the better your chances. If you work very hard at finding artists "before their big break" writing with them, you will increase your odds significantly by being in on the "ground floor."

Good luck and please let me know if i can help you.

Marc-alan Barnette

#687553 - 01/31/09 12:52 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Ray,

In this day and age, no one can give you a "written" time limit on a song, because they don't know when the actual record is going to be released. With everyone fighting for budget funding for their projects, it takes a long time for money to come filtering through.Which is why it is often three years before some projects are recorded and released. And of course the labels and artist and writers would like one project to stay out there as long as possible to get more singles on them. When you are Rascal Flatts getting your third or forth singles and keeping the project out there, the more money you make before they dissapear. You have to milk it for all it's worth.
Again, the costs involved in releasing music in today's market with all the competition for the entertainment dollar, means that they are going to take their time. If an artist is stiffing, you are not going to invest in the next project and throw good money after bad. Sad but the reality of the industry.

MAB

#687573 - 01/31/09 01:53 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Hey Marc,
Thanks for ringing in on the happenings in Nashville and the "Hold" situation on songs. As stated I believe a song would have to be signed to a Publisher who may be asked for a hold on one of his songs.

No doubt there are a lot of "Bottlenecks" in getting a song thru the maze to finally land on a Major Artist's final list. No doubt if a song comes along that rises above the fray it will get strong consideration very quickly. Writing a good song is hard to say the least!

I pitch songs on a regular basis and some to the Major Listings where I have permission.

We of course, have discussed practically all of the aspects of getting a cut and the ins and outs of where the money goes such as to everyone but the Artist.

Again, thanks for ringing in.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 01/31/09 01:54 PM.

Ray E. Strode
#687628 - 01/31/09 03:57 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Ray,

Glad to be here. Good topic. I find that when you are able to see things from other perspectives, you are able to analize your writing and pitch choices better.

I am in a bit of an interesting position, in that an artist I "brought to the table" is signing a major label deal. At that point you are playing "King of the Hill" hoping your songs stay on the project, as he is exposed to the other "big dog, top of the heap" writers, other material he himself writes, and I am still actually competing with the producer as well as myself for cuts. So we are all going through the various levels of the "hold" system no matter what side we are on.

When there is a lot of money involved, the decisions are in the hands of more and more people and they all have competing interests. So having the great song, and a great publisher (SONY,in this case) is a big plus. But having the RIGHT song for that stage of the artists development, AND getting everyone involved to agree is a challenge to say the least. Luckily, it seems I have covered all my bases on this one, even to the point of one of the three strongest contenders for single status, I have written with the artist and the producer, Walt Aldrich. But you never know. It ain't final till it is released.

MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 01/31/09 04:01 PM.
#687641 - 01/31/09 04:49 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Moker Jarrett Offline
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Marc,
good to see you on here, welcome ...i have been an admirer of your work for awhile...Walt's a great producer and writer as you well know, alot of fun too...appreciate your sharing with us...all the best to you on ending up with some airplay off of Frankie's project...

Tom,
you're gonna have to grant holds and do so with integrity, it's just the way it works...no written contract exists to "hold" you to it, but if they're willing to help try and get the song where you ultimately want it to be, your word is the contract...i remember speaking with Steve when he was at Windswept about this very issue...as the publisher with a hot song he felt it was his business to know what was going on with holds, he would check back with his contact every week or two while it was on hold...to put it in perspective for you though, he was a very tied in publisher with probably the best staff writers in town at the time, so he knew why, and for who, and who would be listening to it, and when it was supposed to happen, it also wouldn't stop him from working the song elsewhere, especially if he was cranked about it, but honoring that hold with your word is part of doing business at that level...as usual be well my friend...moker

#687669 - 01/31/09 06:20 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Moker Jarrett]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Moker,

Back at you. You do look familiar to me. I think we have met along the way. Just got on here. Any suggestions for me.

MAB

#687696 - 01/31/09 08:01 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Moker Jarrett Offline
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Marc,
I'm sure you realize that part of the joy of life is meeting and interacting with people... i have met on here, and now consider them friends, folks from Australia, Scotland, France, the UK, as well as many states that well otherwise i may never have had the chance to interact with...there's guys who have recorded albums with Gloria Estefan and Michael Jackson, folks that have movie scripts written and developing film deals, the producer from Seals and Crofts heyday, gifted lyricists,a luthier,etc...i've written with a bunch of folks and i didn't really come here looking for that, but ya know with the songwriter radar always on ya just never know what you're gonna bump into...there are some genuinely great people here, i think that's what i've enjoyed the most. i do have some co-writers whom i will probably be writing with now and again for as far as the eye can see...my only advice is to find some folks you didn't know before and enjoy them...be well and hope to see ya around...moker

#687721 - 01/31/09 09:37 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Moker Jarrett]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Moker,

That is great. One of the things I am involved with these days are being sort of a "Dr. Phil" for advice and suggestions to help people's musical journey's. At the same time I am involved with the Nashville Chamber of Commerce to help provide some organization to outsider's musical directions. We want people to have an easier time learning about the craft, the business the city.
At the end of the day I want to try to help all writers who care about their craft and their neighborhoods, regardless if they ever utilize my services or not. I think that if we all work together, support each other we all grow and build on our respective dreams. I am doing it in my real life and hope to inspire and help others along the way. Let me know if I can help you with anything.Great to hear from you.

MAB

#687735 - 01/31/09 10:39 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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WriterTomYeager Offline
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Harrisonburg,Virtginia
Much Thanks Marc

your extensive knowledge of the music business was one of the reasons I joined SONGRAMP a few weeks ago....JPF has very knowledgeable mentors as well-and I love both sites........I would like to ask you if Warner Brothers is the only game in town as far as comedy submissions.......I have a country-comedy thing just out-its on my Myspace page-top of the player.......I am going to Warner Bros next week with it-provided I can get in the door...I have a nice Request to Submit written up....my thinking is a 3 way marketing campaign....WARNER/1000TRACKS.COM(Hollywood music licensing catalog that has 3 songs of mine already) and lastly ONLINE GREETING CARD COMPANIES......I figure it would make a good musical gag gift card for fathers day or dads birthday.....well thats what I am hoping anyway........would much appreciate your advice.......

Tom

#687742 - 01/31/09 11:18 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: WriterTomYeager]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Hey Tom,

Thank you for those kinds words and thank you for being a part of this and the Ramp. I just joined here so I can use all the help I can get in direction.
I wish I knew more of what you are asking about WB.I have been seeing Rodney Carrington pitches. Since I have a few "Out there songs" I am going to find out and will let you know. I am represented by Sharp Objects music and will see what I can find out. As the Frankie project goes forward I will see what my connection to Warner;s turns into. I was almost a staff writer there in 2000, if you want to really hear a Music Row story, that is a doozy.
Up until then, you might check with Steve Goodie, who hosts the Sunday night show at the Bluebird. he is a great guy and a comedian specializing in comedy songs. he was telling me there is going to be an all comedy night somewhere coming up. Contact me on my personal e-mail, MBarne4908@aol.com and I'll do my best to snoop around for you.
Come out to some of our events. We have a great third Sunday at three party at Doak Turner's each month and we are trying to develop some new activities for people to plug into Nashville. I am hosting a Song Ramp/JPF dinner the third Friday. Would be happy to have you around.

Great to hear from you, if you have other questions I can give you long winded non-sensical answers to, please shoot away. I hope I will know a little better next time.

MAB

#687744 - 01/31/09 11:23 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Tom,

On the greeting card idea, it is not that big a deal in this day and age to develop your own prototype. Develop a few copies, ten to twelve and see if you can get some interest from local card shops. I did one myself a few years ago.
My song was called "My Wish" (Before Rascal Flatts) and i used it for a lot of things. A friend of mine got a local artist to do artwork, we put a CD of the song in it, (now they have sound cards) I just didn't market it that well because I only wanted it in conjunction with my workshops. Just did a few hundred cards and gave most of them away. Sold a few. Would have been better if I had some help marketing. But as an experiment as self marketing, you can try it before it would cost you a lot.
And this town respects having something they can build on. So get it started and then see where it goes. If you need help, let me know. That is what I do.

MAB

#687745 - 01/31/09 11:24 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,345
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
I got permission to pitch to Warner Brothers a while back. Will be intresting what you find out. It's been a while since I've sent anything. I only send to Producers when they are seeking material for a particular artist.


Ray E. Strode
#687766 - 02/01/09 12:07 AM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Ray,

It is good that you understand etticate. The basic problem with all of this is that artists are so involved now in the writing of their own material. due to downloading and other competitive forces they have had no choice but to be part of everything. How many songs would you put in front of your own when it came down to pitching one song to an artist.
By the time we get to those open pitches, they have already sewn up most everything they need. and when you are talking about slipping in front of other people's livelyhood it is a tough road to travel.
One of my biggest suggestions to all writers is to be proactive and work on finding your own pitch sources before they get record deals. Finding new artists, in your case comedians, can be as easy as attending local open mics, writers nights or comedy clubs. Finding the "New kid in town' is a great way to get in on the ground floor.
In my own case I was introduced to a 25 year old guitar gunslinger out of Kalamazoo Mich. About two years ago. As I got to know him and he started making trips to Nashville, I started "officially working with him in January of last year. He made continuous trips once a month to Nashville, we wrote and recorded his material. In August he signed a major publishing deal with Sony and this past week he showcased for five major label record deals and was offered money contracts from three of them. We are waiting to see where it goes.That is one year after writing his first song with me. But the kid is AMAZING so I can only take a little credit.
The point is that I was able to get in on the ground floor long before he started getting attention. I solidified my approach, and used his abilities as a complliment to my own. I call that a "Win win" approach and something I strongly recomend to all writers now.
If you notice on most songs on artists out there, the same names appear over and over, Wiseman, Steele, Rutherford, etc. They have started on that artists career and have been instrumental in developing the act. Much like modern day Brian Epstiens, putting the guys in matching suits and teaching them to bow at the end of the show.
That is where the business is now, and the closer you can get to the source of that pitch point, the better you set yourself up to be.

Hope this helps. Love to hear from you.

MAB

#687806 - 02/01/09 02:38 AM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Marc,

Good to see you here! (Folks, Marc is the real deal, he's a great resource to songwriters as well as being a great songwriter, singer and entertainer...and I'm not using the word "great" cavalierly.)

The songwiter as developer is an age old tradition in Nashville. Years back I was in a band called White Crow. We were produced by Chuck Glaser of the Glaser Brothers and were looking for songs. Harlan Howard pitched some songs to us. He came to a rehearsal and listened to us, pitched us some wonderful songs including "Never Mind," and got some folks out to hear our showcase at the Bluebird (a fairly new venue then smile ). He was involved in every step of the process, not just writing songs and throwing them out there to see if they'd stick. Things haven't changed, and they won't. My old buddy, the late Danny Mayo was very involved in the Pirates of the Mississippi and Confederate Railroad (I believe he came up with the name "Confederate Railroad.")

That's the kind of dedication it takes.

I hope to see you around much more, welcome to JPF.

All the Best,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#687850 - 02/01/09 10:49 AM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Apr 2005
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Marvin Adcock Offline
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Marvin Adcock  Offline
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Kansas
Marc,

Great to see you pitching in on JPF. I have read several of your postings on other forums and always enjoyed them. As always your advice on the business of songwriting is right on. Hope to see you more often on here.

Marvin

#687898 - 02/01/09 01:18 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marvin Adcock]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,345
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Glad to have you here on the boards Marc,
I suscribe to a Tip Sheet and so there are postings for songs listed that I send to. I never send blind to anyone.
Wheather the songs are listened to I can only guess but the submissions aren't rejected, (Sent back unopened) so I assume someone is listening to them. Of course I am open to other options to help the Artist if they ask.

Several years ago I had a call from a Producer for more songs on a particular pitch I had made. I didn't make the final cut but called him later to see what happened. He said they went thru 2000 songs for the Album. Of course that probably happens all the time and they may be looking to fill a couple of slots from an outside writer. And they probably don't want to pay the full mechanical rate so that may eliminate an outside writer's chances even if they have the better songs for the project.

You can look at the Lyrics of a song I wrote some time ago on the Lyrics Board 3, Entitled: I'LL NEVER TRY YOUR LOVE AGAIN. I needed to do a re-write on the song so I could pitch it again. It is now on my pitch list again although the opportunities are scarce for that song I did send it for a listing for Traditional Country. Good luck on your current project.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 02/01/09 01:21 PM.

Ray E. Strode
#687924 - 02/01/09 02:55 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,198
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Posts: 5,198
Nashville, Tn.
Hello Mike,
Figured I'd run into you soon on here. Was thinking about you the other night. Joy Collins is doing a new night in town with a house band that backs up the writers. Really sounds good. But I remember you and Ray Mann, the bass playing drummer, who played both at the same time, Chas Williams, and that sax player that played two saxes at the same time. That one used to kill me. Like a six piece band, with three or four players. what a hoot!

That project creation is old. Actually one of the biggest dogs on the block, Tim Dubois, founded Arista records based around one group, Restless Heart, in the 80's to do his songs. Then there were friends of his, Brooks and Dunn, that he put together, Pam Tillis, etc. His son is a monster writer now. That is how empires are built. You build them yourself.

MAB



#687949 - 02/01/09 04:02 PM Re: The Shadowy World Of Song "Holds" by Major Artists [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Marc,

Yeah, Ray Mann was a trip. He learned to do that after burning his right hand in an accident. Needing to keep his gig, Ray played bass by tapping with his left hand. After his right hand healed, Ray, who also played drums, figured he'd give a try playing, as he called the process, "simultaneous." There was a song on the country charts with Ray Mann playing simultaneous bass and drums. I'd guess that's the only time that's happened.

What you say is golden. I've got a song on hold right now as a duet for a major artist and an artist I've done a lot of work and co-writing with. This wasn't a pitch it was a relationship. Wish me luck on it smile

All the Best,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music


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