Who's Online Now
15 registered members (Fdemetrio, Everett Adams, Gavin Sinclair, maccharles, Dave Rice, couchgrouch, Deej56, Mackie H., 4 invisible), and 195 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Chris Erhardt
Chris Erhardt
NYC/L.A.
Posts: 248
Joined: November 2014
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Not really a Blog, but something I'm doing
by Everett Adams. 02/20/20 10:04 AM
Need some volunteers, no heavy lifting involved...
by Fdemetrio. 02/20/20 09:50 AM
::: Lucky Guy (Uke) :::
by JaneK. 02/19/20 12:56 PM
Sometimes (You Gotta Go Home)
by JaneK. 02/19/20 12:47 PM
Practical Guidelines For Guitaring: Standing
by Marc Barnette. 02/19/20 12:34 PM
Old Navy Footlocker
by couchgrouch. 02/19/20 10:17 AM
Looking for musicians who need lyrics
by Brian Austin Whitney. 02/19/20 07:02 AM
Synchronization Licensing
by Gary E. Andrews. 02/19/20 12:19 AM
$ynchronization Licen$ing.
by Gary E. Andrews. 02/18/20 11:25 PM
Crimson Red
by Deej56. 02/18/20 11:13 PM
Stop Wasting Your Time (Have A Good TIme)
by Deej56. 02/18/20 11:03 PM
DRINK WITH ME. DEEJ & Travis. ( updated)
by Deej56. 02/18/20 11:01 PM
Does this seem legit?
by Marc Barnette. 02/18/20 03:38 PM
CAGED for Guitar
by Kevin Emmrich. 02/18/20 01:51 PM
Any Friend Of Jesus
by Vicarn. 02/18/20 07:35 AM
David Olney RIP
by Brian Austin Whitney. 02/18/20 03:19 AM
New Add to Playlist
by Brian Austin Whitney. 02/17/20 09:35 PM
Child Of Nova - Instrumental
by GocartMoz. 02/17/20 10:29 AM
Somewhere South of Nowhere. Vic
by Vicarn. 02/17/20 09:41 AM
The Same Sun Shines On Us All
by Gavin Sinclair. 02/16/20 10:00 PM
low tide
by John Paragreen. 02/16/20 07:44 PM
A Master Of Reason And Rhyme
by Mackie H.. 02/16/20 12:24 PM
What will be will be
by ckiphen. 02/16/20 11:32 AM
Fiver anyone?
by Dave Rice. 02/15/20 01:55 PM
Darker side of me
by ckiphen. 02/15/20 01:05 PM
The Millionaires club
by ckiphen. 02/15/20 12:59 PM
Without You
by Gerry. 02/15/20 09:35 AM
URGENT! Our Site is being shut down on JAN 31st!
by ben willis. 02/14/20 05:32 PM
Time for me
by ckiphen. 02/14/20 04:40 PM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,815
Travis david 11,726
Kevin Emmrich 10,590
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,600
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,845
glynda 8,659
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,908
couchgrouch 7,672
Dave Rice 7,524
Corey 7,357
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,568
Vicarn 6,292
ben willis 6,107
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
niteshift 5,591
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,653
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,372
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Roy Cooper 4,189
Tom Shea 4,179
Cindy Miller 4,178
nightengale 4,092
TamsNumber4 4,075
MFB III 3,902
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,814
Dan Sullivan 3,710
beechnut79 3,561
E Swartz 3,447
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
Nigel Quin 2,812
MidniteBob 2,707
Nelson 2,603
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,242
Judy Hollier 2,232
Wendy D 2,219
Erica Ellis 2,202
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,022
DukeWill 1,988
maccharles 1,984
floyd jane 1,982
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Fdemetrio 1,779
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Martin Lide 1,651
Iggy 1,650
Noel Downs 1,620
Rick Heenan 1,603
Cal 1,574
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,462
GocartMoz 1,462
Tom Franz 1,455
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,428
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,408
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
Glen King 1,214
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Deej56 1,163
Diane Ewing 1,158
Gerry 1,148
lane1777 1,145
summeoyo 1,126
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
IronKnee 947
Jak Kelly 912
90 dB 892
krtinberg 890
9ne 889
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
Dayson 774
teletwang 762
Andy K 744
tbryson 737
Andy Kemp 733
ant 732
Jackie444 731
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
Irwin 634
Pat Hardy 625
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
Moosesong 609
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
JAPOV 562
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
R&M 496
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Cecilee 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
spidey 371
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
#614247 - 05/09/08 06:12 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: dannyjames]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Andrew Aversa Offline
Andrew Aversa  Offline

Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Philadelphia, PA, USA
It's good that you tested it offline first - I'm not sure why the bugs appeared in the live version, then...

This problem occurred with me, first of all. I had one song in Techno this month, Mindbender. It was at 38. Here's the sequence of events:

1. In April, I entered two songs in Techno for the month of May. These songs were "Bazaar" and "Throwdown".

2. When I heard the announcement, in April, that only one song would be allowed, I withdrew one of the songs and ended up with only one, "Throwdown", which was entered in Techno. I entered "Mindbender" into Electronic.

3. A few days into May, "Mindbender" was removed from Electronic for being off-topic, so I withdrew Throwdown from Techno, and entered Mindbender into Techno instead. Total songs in Techno: 1 (Mindbender.) Total songs in Electronic: 1 (Throwdown.)

4. I get an email saying I had THREE songs in Techno: "Bazaar" (one of the ones I entered for the May contest during April, which I withdrew before May started), "Mindbender", and "Throwdown". The system removed "Mindbender", thus removing my only Techno contest track and forcing me to lose my ranking.

The exact same thing happened to my friend and last month's grand prize winner sgx. Except he only had one song in the entire CONTEST! His was "Crowdpleaser (Drop the Mic Mix)" in Electronic, and he was in the top 20 - even higher than me. He got the same error message, that he had multiple songs entered when he didn't (he withdrew any extras before the month started) and "Crowdpleaser" was removed.

The same thing ALSO happened to Jillian Goldin! Her song "Red July", her only entry in Pop, was removed because the system said she had multiple songs there when she didn't. She had previously withdrawn songs from the category, but was definitely only competing with the one song by the time May started.

All of us re-entered our songs, but again, we all lost ranking that has not been restored. I sent a ticket in a minute after I figured out what happened and I'm pretty sure the others did too.

Last edited by Andrew Aversa; 05/09/08 06:13 PM.

http://www.zirconmusic.com/ - Award-winning music/albums for video games, film and TV!

Impact Soundworks - Cutting-edge sample libraries for Kontakt
#614546 - 05/10/08 07:59 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Andrew Aversa]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
dannyjames Offline
Serious Contributor
dannyjames  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
New Hampshire
Got it. Thanks for all the examples. We will evaluate. Until I know otherwise, I'll remain optimistic that all has a valid explanation. So allow me a "half full" moment until I can prove for myself that the glass was actually "half empty". smile

#615585 - 05/14/08 12:09 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: dannyjames]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Hello Danny,
Did you see my latest post (on the General forum, main OurStage topic)about this issue?
Here's a copy of it:

---
Why does OurStage even allow artists who have entered songs into contests, to vote on themslves? I thought that the cardinal contest rule was that artists and songwriters can NOT vote for themselves and best NOT AT ALL in the channels they have entered songs into.

This month I have four songs in four different channels, so if I want to vote, I could vote in all the other (approx.) 30 channels, but maybe NOT in the ones I entered. It would be a very simple thing for the software program to monitor.

Quit simply, if they know you entered into Folk for month of May, you can't vote anything in that channel, period. Because if you could vote in that channel, even if your song doesn't appear because it's blocked out, you could still vote artifically low against all your competitors, see?

So I think we should bring this point up to Brian, Daniel and the OurStage management team to make this basic point very clear:
There's NO need for OurStage artists & bands to be allowed to vote in any channel for which they have entered a song for any given contest month. Note: they should also monitor additional account profiles that artists & bands can set up using other email addresses, etc.

Before a song is entered or after it has been withdrawn, it's Ok to vote/judge in that channel again. I know JPF follows this same high standard, and if they didn't, their song awards would be compromised and would not be nearly as valuable or meaningful.
---

Please let me know if this makes any sense to you that perhaps it would be a better policy to BLOCK artists and bands from voting in the same channel that they have entered their songs into. In other words, let the FANS decide, but NOT the artists. grin

Best regards,
Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#615590 - 05/14/08 12:29 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: dannyjames]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
dannyjames Offline
Serious Contributor
dannyjames  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
New Hampshire
I am no longer optimistic. If any JPF member was affected by the May rules change reach out to me via my profile and I'll explain.
Originally Posted by dannyjames
Got it. Thanks for all the examples. We will evaluate. Until I know otherwise, I'll remain optimistic that all has a valid explanation. So allow me a "half full" moment until I can prove for myself that the glass was actually "half empty". smile

#615591 - 05/14/08 12:31 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
dannyjames Offline
Serious Contributor
dannyjames  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
New Hampshire
It's an interesting idea. We're reaching out the channel contestants over the coming days to inspire them to action. Look for my email and tell me what you think. Thanks Michael!
Originally Posted by Michael Borges
Hello Danny,

---
Why does OurStage even allow artists who have entered songs into contests, to vote on themslves? I thought that the cardinal contest rule was that artists and songwriters can NOT vote for themselves and best NOT AT ALL in the channels they have entered songs into.

This month I have four songs in four different channels, so if I want to vote, I could vote in all the other (approx.) 30 channels, but maybe NOT in the ones I entered. It would be a very simple thing for the software program to monitor.

Quit simply, if they know you entered into Folk for month of May, you can't vote anything in that channel, period. Because if you cold vote in that channel, even if your song doesn't appear because it's blocked out, you could still vote artifically low against all your competitors, see?


#615666 - 05/14/08 05:35 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: dannyjames]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Indianapolis, IN USA
I posted a response to this on the other board. (This is exactly WHY I didnt' want to keep adding new posts to this discussion Michael B.. it gets confusing for everyone).

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#617105 - 05/17/08 09:35 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I posted a response to this on the other board. (This is exactly WHY I didnt' want to keep adding new posts to this discussion Michael B.. it gets confusing for everyone). Brian

Brian,
Please help me understand what you're saying.
Here's the facts which we can both easily confirm:

On February 05, 2008 (09:02 AM) I started a topic on the Mentor Forum titled: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!)

On April 13, 2008 (05:03 PM) you started a new topic on the General Message Forum titled: So Where Does Your Song Rank On OurStage

My topic was only to share my personal feedback about my experience on OurStage (nothing to do with song rankings) and your topic, which started 9 weeks later, was asking folks about their song rankings on OurStage.

Please explain what the problem is. Is it that my topic started 9 weeks before yours in a different forum with a completely different title and purpose?

By the way, I also work hard to keep "on topic" with all the posts I start, so if the topic drifted somewhat, please check and see who is posting "off topic". I sure hope it wasn't me! smile

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#617224 - 05/18/08 08:13 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Indianapolis, IN USA
Michael,

It wasn't the first two on 2 separate boards that was confusing.. it's when you added a third. Even Daniel is having trouble keeping up with where the different posts were. The post I made on the General board was intended as a place for folks to talk about their songs that were posted on Ourstage and how they were doing. You added a second to discuss basically the same thing on the same board. With 3 going, it's hard for folks to find which post included which topic. Why that is confusing to you is unknown to me. I mentioned it right after you started the third topic, but you don't even mention it here. And for the record, there was a fourth topic that I started before your first one, but I removed it to avoid confusion. It was a global topic at the top of every message board. Then I changed it to the newer discussion on just the general board.

Most people aren't checking all 3 posts like you or I might be doing. They're lucky if they see 1. If Daniel is answering questions on one of them, most folks aren't seeing his answers.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#617376 - 05/18/08 08:00 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Brian,
Ok, I see what you mean... thanks for explaining!
So I started only two "OurStage" related topics:

1. Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!)
Note: This one is on the Mentor Forum with 207 replies so far.

2. OurStage Contest Entries - MAY 2008
Note: This one is on the General Messages Forum and contains no discussion about Rank or Feedback. It's only about May (Song) Contest Entries. Currently it lists 18 artists with a total of about 100 songs entered ony for the May contest.

Maybe I/we can edit, re-title or DELETE one of these? For example, if you would like to move all the posts from my first topic (Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) to your main OurStage topic, that would be fine with me! Afterwards we can simply delete the whole topic or leave a note that it has been moved to your topic on the General Messages Forum.

Then it might make sense for you to rename your topic to something like: "OurStage - Official Feedback Topic". From then on all "official" OurStage feedback discussion would be done on that topic which you can continue to manage and moderate, etc.

Again, that'd be cool with me, but I suggest that at least one seperate topic could also be run which focuses only on current Contest Entries (e.g. May, June, July, etc.), and after the end of each contest folks could post their final song rankings. We could also create a master rankings list showing all songs from 1st place on down in order of the month's final contest ranking.

Suggested format could be:
Rank, song name, channel, artist/songwriter name.

We have some great information and participation, and it only needs to organize / re-organized to make it easy to find. Maybe you could also "Pin" it at the top of the General Messages forum to make it even easier for most folks to find. cool

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#618259 - 05/21/08 10:22 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
Fiji
Hey Danny, or some other knowledgeable person.....

I have 2 different songs in the top 10 ( well, so far anyway ) in 2 different channels, Electronic and Instrumental, and am not sure how it progresses from there.....

The rules state..

"At the end of each month, the top 20 and the top 10 in each channel go head-to-head in a special judging channel to determine the winner of that channel, and then a site-wide judging contest to determine our Grand Prize winner. "

So top 20 and/or top 10 go to which places respectively ? It's a little confusing. Could you please clarify ?

Thanks, cheers, niteshift

#618303 - 05/21/08 12:33 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Andrew Aversa Offline
Andrew Aversa  Offline

Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Philadelphia, PA, USA
In the quarterfinals, the top 20 songs from each channel compete against each other within their respective categories. So, in the quarterfinals, each channel will have 20 songs left.

In the semifinals, the top 10 songs from each channel (as determined in the quarterfinals) compete against each other, again in their respective categories.

In the finals, the #1 song selected in each category (as determined in the semifinals) compete with each other for the grand prize.

Does this make sense?


http://www.zirconmusic.com/ - Award-winning music/albums for video games, film and TV!

Impact Soundworks - Cutting-edge sample libraries for Kontakt
#618329 - 05/21/08 02:39 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Andrew Aversa]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
Fiji
Yes, I think it does make sense Andrew. But over what time frame ? I see the quarters start on Sun 25th.

Is this all in the space of a week, with the winner determined in the follwing 6 days ? In other words, 2 days per round ?

cheers, niteshift

#618400 - 05/21/08 06:44 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Andrew Aversa Offline
Andrew Aversa  Offline

Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 772
Philadelphia, PA, USA
Yes; as you can see on the main page, the quarterfinals last four days, the semifinals are two, and the finals are a mere 24 hours. The last day is definitely crazy... having been in the finals twice I can say that emphatically!


http://www.zirconmusic.com/ - Award-winning music/albums for video games, film and TV!

Impact Soundworks - Cutting-edge sample libraries for Kontakt
#618530 - 05/22/08 01:07 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Andrew Aversa]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
Fiji
Got it ! Yep, that must be a crazy 24 hrs with 5 grand on the line. I bet those songs are bouncing around postion wise, like a manic puppet on a string. Thanks Andrew.

cheers, niteshift

#621759 - 06/01/08 05:14 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: dannyjames]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 54
Jillian Goldin Offline
Serious Contributor
Jillian Goldin  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 54
Philadelphia, PA
Originally Posted by dannyjames
The big issue for "delete" is the archive. Once you complete a contest it's part of that archive so it's not like a changing profile as there is now history associated with the media. However, you can HIDE an item from view by going to the Upload page, My Stuff tab and clicking the Hide check box. We are going to add a "delete" feature, but only for items that haven't completed a monthly competition. That's the current plan at least.

Hi Danny. Could you clarify this one for us? I am trying to find a way to hide some old uploads, since I decided to do shorter edits for a couple of songs. I searched long and hard on the Upload page for a "hide" button, but can't find it! A more detailed description, or perhaps screenshots, would be enormously helpful. smile

#621928 - 06/01/08 08:23 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Jillian Goldin]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Originally Posted by dannyjames
...you can HIDE an item from view by going to the Upload page, My Stuff tab and clicking the Hide check box. We are going to add a "delete" feature, but only for items that haven't completed a monthly competition. That's the current plan at least.

Danny,
Ditto for me with not being able to find a "Hide" check box. Is it only for songs that have been entered and then later withdrawn from a contest? It would be nice to be able to Hide any song that is not currently entered into a contest.

Thanks!
Michael



There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#622363 - 06/03/08 11:25 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: dannyjames]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,697
Janice Hopkins Offline
Top 50 Poster
Janice Hopkins  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,697
Michigan
My sons song from his band, Branded has a song being judged on OurStage right now in the country category. Its called...Gonna Go Get Lost and its from their FIFTY TURNS cd. Out of 421 entries in that category, they are 120....here is their band link.

http://www.myspace.com/brandedband

If you get a chance could you give a listen?

Thanks alot,

Jan

#622487 - 06/03/08 08:12 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Janice Hopkins]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2
Rayshun LaMarr Offline
Casual Observer
Rayshun LaMarr  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2
Check out Rayshun LaMarr on outstage he is being judged in three catergories.

1. R&B he is 87
2. Pop he is 84
3. Songwriter he is 119

You can also hear him at

www.myspace.com/rayshunonrad
www.radrecordsdc.com

or by just googling his name he is on several website he and abroad.

Look forward to some support. Let's keep the music alive

William

#623527 - 06/06/08 10:53 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Rayshun LaMarr]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Forgive me if this has been covered here before, I just glanced through and didn't notice.

If someone wants to enter a cover song in the "cover band" section at OurStage, how do they deal with the copyright of the song?

Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#623536 - 06/06/08 11:18 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Originally Posted by Mike Dunbar
If someone wants to enter a cover song in the "cover band" section at OurStage, how do they deal with the copyright of the song? Mike

Mike,
I would think it's similar to playing a cover song at any live venue. The venue (whether online or offline) takes care of the ASCAP/BMI performance license, so I bet OurStage has this cost included in their marketing budget to host virtually unlimited cover songs.

I've looked "high & low" and have not seen any special instructions about uploading cover songs. Besides, how could they take the time to check everyone's uploads and contest entries? It would be very time consuming not to mention the added liability for OurStage to host such songs if they didn't have everything cleared ahead of time with the big Performance Rights Organizations.

If OurStage doesn't have a blanket performance license secured yet with all the big PROs, you can bet they'll come a knocking at their door before too long. grin

Same goes for SoundClick. They also support a "Cover songs" category for all their genres. For example, Country has a Cover Songs channel:
http://www.soundclick.com/genres/charts.cfm?Genre=Country&SubgenreID=200
You'll notice that all of their Genres support "Cover Songs" as a sub-genre alternative.

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#623538 - 06/06/08 11:22 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Thanks, Michael


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#623540 - 06/06/08 11:28 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Bill Robinson Offline
Bill Robinson  Offline

Top 30 Poster

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,343
Curmudgeonville, Tn
Hmmmm that's interesting.
I can understand a venue handling the license for a "Performance" of a cover. But this is a recording. Isn't that a different thing?
I think Soundclick has some specific rules about it.


Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
#623549 - 06/07/08 12:14 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Bill Robinson]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
I can understand a venue handling the license for a "Performance" of a cover. But this is a recording. Isn't that a different thing?

Bill,
Many artists now bring their own pre-recorded backing tracks to sing and/or play along with in their performances. Such tracks are usually recorded on CD's or could be WAV or MP3 files on their laptop computers, etc. The audio recordings can embody not the instruments and also various voices such as backup and harmonies, etc.

My educated guess is that the PROs now support online venue perfomance licensing. I bet Brian can find out right quick by calling his contact at BMI and also checking with Danny, the OurStage field rep here on JPF.

No need for us to speculate when the answers are probably right at our "finger tips" when both BMI and OurStage are JPF community partners and sponsors. I'm sure Brian can ask them! smile

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#624500 - 06/10/08 12:39 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,126
summeoyo Offline
Top 500 Poster
summeoyo  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,126
Harrisburg, PA, USA
Hi Michael. I can only relate my personal experience. For years I performed my songs at many venues using a CD with music tracks. I kept a log of my performances at sonicbids.com. I applied for and received a grant from ASCAP for these performances. I think I received these on a quarterly basis. However, I only had to apply once per year. I suppose one could argue their case with a PRO if they have evidence - as you do - if one is getting thousands of plays online. However I think this is handled by Sound Exchange.

#624531 - 06/10/08 02:36 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: summeoyo]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Summeoyo,
Thanks for your input! Regardless, I was hoping maybe Brian could ask his best contact at OurStage about their cover song policy. They've probably got something in place with the PROs simply because the underlying song (copyright owner) still needs to be paid a performance royalty regardless of who created or owns the cover recording. For example, the 1st place winner in May was "Maybe I'm Amazed (McCartney cover)".
http://www.ourstage.com/charts/music/100-covers

So one of the PROs must collect the performance royalty for this famous Paul McCartney song and the band that covered it can possibly also collect something later from SoundExchange as well, because they own the recording that is being performed on the OurStage venue.

Either way, I don't think the artists or bands need to pay anything unless they will sell the cover song(s) in form of downloads or physical CDs. In such case they will need to purchase a mechanical license for any cover songs they will be selling.

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#624543 - 06/10/08 03:07 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Michael,

But what about the copyright? As I understood it, and I may be wrong (not a lawyer), it was a violation of copyright to simply copy someone's work without permission.

By the way, congrats on coming in 2nd last month. Beautiful song.

Thanks,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#624560 - 06/10/08 03:52 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Thanks Mike!
Good question about the copyright. Generally, the most common thing is to pull a mechanical license. This can be easily done on the Harry Fox Agency (HFA) which has special pricing now for online usage of copyrighted songs. See this page about Digital Licensing:
http://www.harryfox.com/public/infoFAQDigitalLicensing.jsp
It says:
The HFA website provides answers to commonly asked questions about mechanical licensing and other related inquiries.

Also see this page:
http://www.harryfox.com/public/songfile.jsp
It says:
New! Songfile minimum lowered to just 25 copies, and electronic check payment option added!

I have already purchased mechanical licenses for some of my cover recordings, but mostly for my sound recording licensing sales purposes. The OurStage streaming application (venue) might be handled differently, so I'm researching this now to learn more clearly which HFA license type (if any) would best apply.

For example, on OurStage audiences can stream songs but can't buy them for downloading if the artists have the optional download sales feature disabled. So the application would be only for preview and contest streaming. I would think that OurStage would need to pay performance fees via a blanket license from one or more of the PROs. Makes sense, right?

If you have any insights on this, please share so we can discuss and learn more.

Thanks,
Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#624599 - 06/10/08 05:58 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Thanks Michael,

I've been perusing the Harry Fox site for info on free streaming audio, such as on OurStage, and it said I need to fill out the New Media Licensing Application. On that application, it looks like every category leads to a license for paid download or paid streaming. I'm looking to add a few covers to the EPK at OurStage. They would be free streaming audio with no downloads. I think I've read everything at Harry Fox so far, I'll have a cup of coffee and try again, maybe the words will look different smile

Thanks again for your good info.

Mike



You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#624605 - 06/10/08 06:09 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Mike,
Ok, good deal!
Matter of fact, I just sent the HFA a similar request for information which I worded like this:
-------

Hello,
Please provide a quote and terms for the following type of online digital song license:

1. Song will be used by artist or band in "Cover bands" channel at OurStage.com
Please click this link to see examples:
http://www.ourstage.com/music/channel/100-covers

2. Song will not be sold for digital downloads.

3. Song will not be manufactured or sold on physical CD.

4. Song will only be streamed for FREE online previews and contest usage.

5. Song is not in public domain, so it probably needs some kind of license for performance at online venues such as on OurStage.com

Question:
Is it possible that the OurStage.com online venue will need to pay for online performance royalties from one of the Performance societies such as ASCAP, BMI or SESAC?

Thank you for providing this information and licensing cost if it applies to the artists or bands that are performing their various cover song on these kinds of online web based venues. If you need any more information, please let me know.

Best regards,
Michael Borges
-------

Then I also sent an e-mail directly to OurStage (community & tech support) people with a similar question about artists posting songs on their "Cover Bands" channel. I asked them if they already have blanket Performance License agreements with the U.S. PROs such as ASCAP, BMI and SESAC. I also asked them what kind of cover song (mechanical) license artists will need to have their songs performed via online contest streaming and for general previewing, but not for downloading or for download sales.

Let's see who replies first and what they say.
Then we'll hear it from the "horses mouth"! grin

Cheers and enjoy your cup of coffee!
Michael
P.S. What part of "Free" don't they understand?! wink


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#625030 - 06/11/08 10:42 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
So here's the reply I recived today from the HFA, though nothing yet from our friends at OurStage.

----
Dear Michael,

The nature of your request requires a synchronization license, an authorization to use recorded music in combination with visual images such as film, television, video, web sites, video games and the like.

HFA ceased providing synchronization license services in 2002. However, you may secure synchronization rights by contacting the publisher directly. You can use the following databases to locate publisher contact information:

http://www.ascap.com
http://www.bmi.com
http://www.sesac.com
http://www.copyright.gov

If you have any further questions, please contact Publisher Services at 212-834-0100.

Best Regards,
Publisher Services
The Harry Fox Agency

*Please note our new address
601 W. 26th Street, 5th Fl
New York, NY 10001
Phone: (212) 834-0100 | Fax: (646) 487-6779
----

Ok, I think that may be true IF I was making a video to post on OurStage, but they seem to have completely ignored my question about what kind of license to get for streaming a cover song, which is closer to a digital/mechanical license then to a Synch license. In short, I should have added:
Song will not be used in video.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting to hear back from the folks at OurStage.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#625065 - 06/12/08 01:39 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Michael,

It sounds as if they didn't know what your were talking about. I don't feel so bad now, since after reading everything I could find on the Harry Fox website about digital licensing, I could never figure out anything that fit the OurStage case. Slowly the music industry gets dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#625622 - 06/14/08 12:04 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,725
Louis Offline
Top 50 Poster
Louis  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,725
Home of the Crimson Tide
Hi Michael, the way I'm reading it, you need a mechanical license just to record a cover, doesn't matter if your gonna sell it on hard copies or downloads.

"Do I need a mechanical license?

If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you did not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required under U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the copies that you made."

(see the last line, what ya think?)


http://www.soundclick.com/louistwinn

"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." Thoreau
#625632 - 06/14/08 12:37 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Louis]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Louis,
Right, I understand, but in my case, as with many "cover" song artists on OurStage, I wouldn't be producing the song on a CD for sales, but only placing in the contest for free public performance (think radio) with no sales in mind.

The "crux" of the problem is that the music industry needs a new type of online (digital) performance license. This is very similar to a broadcast license in which the broadcasters pay blanket license fees (NOT mechanicals) to pay the royalties which will be collected by the PROs on behalf of the artists and publishers.

A mechanical license only covers a song which will be manufactured & sold on a record such vinyl, tape or CD, etc. and does not cover broadcasting, synch license, digital or other kinds of performance licenses.

For now I must say THANKS and close... but no cigar! wink

Anyway, I only have one CD out and it's all original songs and/or arrangements of tunes already in the public domain, so I don't need a mechanical license for marketing any of the songs on my CD.

I agree that there should be some kind of License that would be perfectly suited for online performance of cover (and original) songs, but evidently the industry hasn't agreed on the best format yet.

However, I think the closest (most natural) type of license would simply be a performance license such as all the PROs are already serving, but also include online digital streams broadcasting. I'm sure the cost would be very reasonable as even small and mid-size bars, restaurants and other public places can afford to pay the min. fees each year.

Let's see what others say.
Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#625859 - 06/15/08 07:08 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,591
Fiji
Hey Michael,

As far as I'm aware, there are no PRO roayalties paid by internet "radio stations" for internet streaming, therefor is it a moot point regarding liscences ?

cheers, niteshift

#625978 - 06/15/08 07:47 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Niteshift,
I think this is changing and I would of course fully support the concept of online (digital streaming) performance royalties just as it's done for TV and other public access areas. In the U.S. radio stations got away with "spinning" records all these years because politically it worked out to the advantage of the record labels to get the "free" exposure, but the music industry doesn't want to make the same mistake again with new online formats and venues.

Take at look at these services:
http://loudcity.com/broadcast
http://loudcity.com/services/requirements

http://www.swcast.net/
Their big issue is royalty parity for all broadcasters.

http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/
Their intro for
NEW MEDIA & INTERNET LICENSES:

We realize that as technology changes and users’ expectations of on-line music grow, ASCAP must continue to be a leader in Internet licensing. Accordingly, we are pleased to announce two new versions of our widely used Internet license agreements: "Non-Interactive 5.0" for non-interactive sites and services; and "Interactive 2.0" for interactive sites and services. A third new agreement, designed for "Wireless Music" (e.g., "ringtones" and "ringbacks"), is available on the Wireless Music page.

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Podcasting_Legal_Guide

As you can see, it's already here and more is soon coming!
Eventually royalties need to be agreed on so they'll work around the whole world (not just a few countries), because the web makes audience/venue access completely global and not just local. Probably they could charge based on verified monthly or annual audience reach similar to how they license many different kinds of venues including Free and Pay-per Cable TV and subscribed Satellite radio, etc.

Just my 2 cents. wink
Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#637578 - 07/29/08 03:11 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,568
Mark Kaufman Offline
Mark Kaufman  Offline

Top 40 Poster

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,568
Minneapolis
Two new ideas for you, Danny! Not sure if they're viable:

1 - Update an existing song. Maybe I'm missing how to do this, but I assume we cannot. I often try to improve my mix based on feedback...delete a drumhit, add a cymbal crash, improve compression or EQ... Is there any way of doing this without pulling a song out of competition and reloading it all over again? So far I've been renaming the old version "Deleted Song" and starting a new entry from scratch...seems unnecessary.

2 - Wouldn't it be fun for fans to have the ability to select "Random Judging" mode? Each new match-up in this mode would whisk you off to another category at random, allowing you to listen to music you might never have selected on your own.

Hope you're still monitoring this thread! smile

-Mark

#637588 - 07/29/08 03:33 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,590
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,590
Crozet, VA
More suggestions:

1.) Have the ability to move older songs to an "archive" page so they don't show up in your current list of songs.

2.) Ranking also based on "percent rank" versus number. 70th in comedy would be in last place, while 70th in Rock would be higher than almost 95% of all songs.

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#637670 - 07/29/08 06:41 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
More suggestions:
1.) Have the ability to move older songs to an "archive" page so they don't show up in your current list of songs.

2.) Ranking also based on "percent rank" versus number. 70th in comedy would be in last place, while 70th in Rock would be higher than almost 95% of all songs.
Kevin

Danny,
Mark and Kevin just contributed some great ideas!

I think having the ability to move older songs to an "archive" page makes sense and having a Ranking abased on "percent rank" is quit brilliant.

Maybe it could be reported in parallel with the current system, but it does make sense to know that (for example) "10th rank" out of how many songs? So maybe the "percent rank" approach would be the best solution! smile

Michael
Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#637831 - 07/30/08 07:24 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Indianapolis, IN USA
We have members in the final 10 in nearly every single genre! I haven't checked the category winners yet, but let's hope you guys did well!

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#637992 - 07/30/08 04:00 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
We have members in the final 10 in nearly every single genre! I haven't checked the category winners yet, but let's hope you guys did well! Brian

Thanks Brian,
And congrats to all that are in the Top 10 today!
BTW, my song "Shir Hashirim" made it into the Semi-finals on the New Age/World channel. Currently it's #6 in the Top 10, but we've still got 10 hours of time left on this round, so we'll see where it ends up.

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#640161 - 08/06/08 05:24 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
The July contest is now history and my instrumental song Shir Hashirim ended up number 8 in the Top 10. I noticed that usually songs with some vocals tends to place higher, but there have been many instrumental songs (with no vocals) in the New Age/World channel that did quit well, so it can swing either way depending on other strengths such as composition, arrangement and production quality, etc.

I'm curious if any A&R types could have predicted which songs would end up in the Top 10 (or Top 5) before the start of the quarter-finals. The July quarter-finals started on the 25th, so anytime before then no one could have known for sure which songs would end up in the top, though there might be plenty of clues based on at least several factors.

Here's a few factors (criteria) I would use if I had to predict a winner before knowing the results of a semi-final or subsequent grand prize contest result.

1. After having heard many (or most) songs in a given channel, (e.g. New Age/World), one could compare relative quality of songs especially on things like: composition, arrangement, production, creativity/originality and performance.

2. If the artist has posted similar songs before (in previous months) in the same channnel that have finished at the top, that might be another positive indicator. It means the artist is probably focusing on their area of "strength" and is targeting their music for a specific kind of genre market. This principal works regardless of genre/channel.

3. Does the artist's song image (photo or artwork) reflect the theme of the genre their in? For example having a country or folk image in New Age/World channel won't look authentic and convincing. It likely to confuse fans and cause the artist to lose votes.

4. In general is there anything offensive or off-topic about the song presentation or production? Offensive words or images might ruin an otherwise great song concept, even if the production is flawless. Off-topic is not always so obvious, but I've heard some great songs that really belong in other channels, so they could end up being removed and/or moved to another channel before the quarter finals.

5. Adding points for each of these critical factors:
Composition - some songs sound great in the first 15 seconds, but where does the song go after that? Does the same melody or chord progression keep getting looped around for the rest of the song, or does it move forwards dynamically to keep my interest?
Arrangement - does the song use a good mix of instruments, voices and other parts, or does it fall short on the overall arrangement?
Production - How good is the production quality? It should be virtually broadcast quality or what's known as "radio ready", but even if very simple it can should still be a very clean mix with a well mastered production to compete against all the other songs in the same channel.
Creativity/Originality - Is this song a "cheap" copy of everything I've heard before in this channel or is it truly fresh and original?
Performance - Is the performance of this song poor, average, very good or outstanding? A bad song could have a great performance and a great song could be very poorly performed, etc.!

I might assign points for each of these criteria and then add them up... or at least be aware of them while deciding which songs also "move" me the most. But even if they don't move me personally, they may still move other voters, judges and fans, so this part gets tricky. wink

As you can imagine, a lot of songs will earn points for various aspects of their strengths, but the key is to select the songs which have the highest overall scores going for them.

In conclusion:
I think it's a mix of "art & science" to be able to accurately predict which songs will make it to the top for any given contest channel. I'd like to challenge myself, and anyone that wants to try this, in an upcoming "Challenge" which I'll post on our new Challenge forum! It's also a good way to learn to be more objective when selecting and preparing one's own songs before entering them into a contest channels. smile

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#640799 - 08/09/08 02:27 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Indianapolis, IN USA
I know people who could have nailed the 10 songs that BELONGED in the top 10.. but with mass opinion, it's rarely going to match because a group of people never think the same as 1 person. And an A&R person has to hear BEYOND the public. The public has the freedom to make a rash decisions and if they change their mind drastically the very next time they hear the song (for better or worse) no big deal. An A&R person has to predict what the masses might like across the spectrum from short, mid and long term listening cycles. And they have to take other issues into consideration like marketing strengths of a band, predictable listener groups as well as target listener groups (whereas Top 40 radio might be predictable but 18-22 year olds might be target etc..). Now, am I saying that all A&R people are even that bright or have that ability? No. But some have, on more occassionas than not, been able to do that successfully and have great track records. Some just get lucky and many miss the boat completely.

It's the reason why I don't do their little "A&R" game because I know I can pick the best song.. but I also know that often the mass public voted differently.. it doesn't make me wrong by any stretch.. because if the public heard that song 10 more times, they'd feel differently and closer to what I predict than they probably did after 1 listen.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#640934 - 08/09/08 02:51 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Ha ha, that's great Brian!
Thanks for expounding on this important point how trained, seasoned A&R decision makers have to take all these factors into account and weigh them in the balance.

As I thought, it's quit an art & science. The "art" is in the heart & ear of the listener, just like a great producer has great ears (experience & talent) to guide him with his final mix & production, and the "science" is having all the right knowledge and research about the market and current trends, etc.

If it was ALL science, it could be easily programmed into a computer and turned into a "no brainer" business, but obviously it doesn't work that way, there's too much "art" involved and only a precious few truly achieve that level of talent to be able to judge (or predict) outcomes on an industry level.

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#645053 - 08/23/08 05:21 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Park City, UT, USA
It's about time that Ourstage steps up the ability to remove music from their website. Right now it's not possible from a user standpoint without intervention from Ourstage and contacting them to do it, this is a glaring problem. When is Ourstage going to create a delete audio from server button that the account holder and make use of?

Do I need to go post the same question on your profile Danny?

As it stands right now, when you upload music to Ourstage it's being held hostage from removal via the account holders control.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#645057 - 08/23/08 05:36 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
It's about time that Ourstage steps up the ability to remove music from their website. Right now it's not possible from a user standpoint without intervention from Ourstage and contacting them to do it, this is a glaring problem. When is Ourstage going to create a delete audio from server button that the account holder and make use of?

Do I need to go post the same question on your profile Danny?

As it stands right now, when you upload music to Ourstage it's being held hostage from removal via the account holders control.

Jody,
I agree 100%!

From a technical point, it would be very easy to add this delete/remove feature, especially since all public music sites like Broadjam, MySpace, PureVolume and SoundClick, etc. support such basic feature, except last.fm - but we'll save that for another topic. crazy

I can understand that if a song is in the middle of a contest month, it should probably stay on their server and also (maybe) once a song has won in the Top-10 or higher rank, there's NO harm to leave it there unless there unless a publisher prefers to have it removed, but generally it would be good promo to simply leave it on the system.

However, for any songs that have ended in 11th or lower rank, it should be no problem to remove them after any contest month, or during a time when it is NOT entered in any contest.

Currently they do allow removing of such songs (not sure about winners though), but it's more work for them to have manual intervention from both the artists and the OurStage support team. Doesn't make sense... unless they are still deciding about their removal policies/logistics.

Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#645074 - 08/23/08 06:47 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,524
Dave Rice Online content
Top 30 Poster
Dave Rice  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,524
Texas
Hi Jody and Michael:

ShowcaseYourMusic allows removal of songs and it's the easiest interface for this type music site I've seen. I've been very pleased with everything but one. I suspect they are not really big with the A&R departments of Publishers, Labels and other music related entities. It's just not the way things seem to work in Nashville or other music centers. These folks (music centers) want you to send them a CD, the Lyric(s) and a cover letter. It's been that way for quite some time now... and they are pretty comfortable with it that way.

Regards,

Dave

http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice

#645090 - 08/23/08 08:07 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Dave Rice]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Dave,
I haven't heard of Showcase Your Music until now, but the basic concept does look interesting. I just visited their site to get a quick overview for who they are and what they're doing. Along my fact-finding mission I found a few things I'll list here:

1. Artists can upload unlimited songs, videos and images for free, but no price list is shown for other services, so either something is "hidden" from view or the site must depend on advertising or other sales to support it's business model.

2. According to WhoIs, their domain was registered in May 2006 using a Godaddy private listing (registration) service. This is neither good nor bad, but please readon on...

3. When you click "Contact" at bottom of page it only opens up your email program and there is no other contact info about the owners, management, address, phone number and no "About" page to learn more about the company, mission statement, or background/credentials, etc.

4. Their tag line says: "The Official A&R Resource System". It's one thing to say "An Online A&R Resource System" but to claim they are "The Official" one sounds more like hype than a reality they can support with proven facts based on track record. For example, are they associated with one of the PROs, the RIAA or a major label, etc.?

5. They claim high traffic rankings, but in the last year their rankings have dropped sharply as shown here: Showcase Your Music - Compete Rankings. Compare with OurStage.com which keeps zooming up since they launched around the same time.

6. On their "success" page they say: "You'll get something you probably don't have right now, the opportunity to get your music heard by people who are looking for what you've got."
Ok, that's nice, but we've all heard of artists being heard & found on many places including MySpace, CDBaby, Taxi, OurStage, and on their own websites. For example one of my songs (New Every Morning) got into a nice indie film project via a direct contact through my SoundClick profile a few years ago. So, could it happen on "Showcase Your Music"? Sure, but it could happen anywhere and even more likely as a Grand prize winner on OurStage. So how can they backup their promise?

Summary:
Companies and services that are transparent and reachable will tend to do better then companies that have to "hide" their business and contact information. Personally I would not be comfortable doing business with a service that has a "faceless" name. I'd be much more comfortable if I knew who the founder was, maybe a bit about their management team, background, interests, qualifications, mission statement and telephone number in case I'd like to call. I like dealing with real people and not just a faceless machine, or at least it would seem more appropriate for the music business.

It's the lack of these elements & credentials that make the whole site appear somewhat distant, removed and out-of-touch with the artist community. But then again, maybe this is what artists want and where the new music biz is heading?! wink

That's "just plain" my perspective! grin
Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#645227 - 08/24/08 10:17 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,524
Dave Rice Online content
Top 30 Poster
Dave Rice  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,524
Texas
Hi Michael:

I can't argue with any of your points. I drifted over to OurStage to make a comparison. What I saw was a pretty busy site. I'm not into busy. I don't give a rip about videos, never have and never will. Music is about my ears... not my eyes. I have an imagination and music stimulates that for me.

It looks like the participants at OurStage end up having to do lots of tweedle-de and tweedle-dum stuff in order to play the game. I'm not into that either. I just want my music to be heard.
I'm really not fond of the "social-networking" aspects of any of these sites. I don't need to be carried away on the shoulders of an adoring fan base. I just want my songs to enter the hearts and minds of people who will listen and enjoy. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy new, honest to goodness friends, like you... but I never delude myself that friendship is as easy as falling off the back of a turnip truck.

Sorry for the mini-rant. There are some positives about OurStage and I will explore it some more. I certainly didn't care much for ASCAP's new social networking thingy... even though I posted a couple of songs there. I don't think the perfect site or model has been created yet. Time will tell.

All my best,

Dave

#645423 - 08/24/08 07:50 PM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Dave Rice]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Dave,
Yep... I hear ya!
Social this, social that... before the internet we had Ice Cream socials... think I'll get my self a bowl of ice cream (or something) and blog about it later on some "nichey" social network! grin

Cheers,
Michael


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#645549 - 08/25/08 05:33 AM Re: Our Stage - New JPF Community Partner (Feedback!) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,886
Indianapolis, IN USA
Dave,

Wow.. sorry but you're totally missing the point here. The "social" part is to attract fans and keep them coming. Do you really think the fans are just going to come and listen to your music sort of randomly and without any reason to? What happens when 100's or 1000's or 10,000 or 100,000 songs are on that other site? No one will ever hear you and no one will have the slightest reason to care.

As for their claim of being the "official" anything.. that alone is reason to consider them a scam. There's no such thing as an official A&R anything for everyone or everything... as Michael suggested, they COULD be the official A&R for Sony.. or something to that effect.. but if they were, they'd scream it from the rooftop. Their claim is as hollow as the 1000's of restaraunts that claim to have the world's best Chili or the greatest Hamburger. Or there's people who PAY for the rights to be called official, like the official sponsors of the Olympics. But really.. how lame is "Offical A&R Resource System?" Extremely would be my answer.

If you don't want to give fans a reason to come and listen, then no one is going to hear you. If you have to PAY those guys money to listen (i.e. as a service to you), big deal. You can pay people on this very site to listen to your music. All that will result is you having less money. If they plan on competing with TAXI, they can stand in line with all the failed companies that have come before them trying to do the same thing. TAXI has a 16 year head start on them. If anyone could claim being the "official" A&R company, it would be them.

When a site has nothing about them viewable to the public without forcing you to give them your contact info (which is a great money maker when you want to sell info to marketing companies and spammers of all types, or simply to spam them yourself forever and a day afterwards) and they have a really stupid name that fans are not likely to be able to find even if they are looking (since it's so hard to spell) it raises a large number of red flags. And without being user friendly, why would anyone ever need or want to go there to hear music when there's a zillion other places to do it? The answer is, they won't.

So have fun on that site getting heard by no one. And wait for the other shoe to drop when they need to either charge you money to be there or come up with some gimmicks to get anyone on the planet to care.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
flowerdesignwi, mrjack7857, ChiTownTaurus, RANDY_CLARK, ellekene
21259 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics119,834
Posts1,129,274
Members21,259
Average Posts Daily30
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"Quality = Longevity." –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0