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#644541 - 08/22/08 04:13 AM Friday, August 22nd, 2008  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
Hi Folks,

So I was watching the Olympics and like many was aware that the Chinese female gymnasts were cheating the rules by having athletes that were too young. I am not sure of the reason for the rule other than they say that the older they get, the more damage and abuse their bodies have taken and so youth is an advantage. In addition, they seem to have a program where kids are plucked (literally) from near baby-hood and whisked away to sports factories where they solely focus their lives on trying to reach the top. That's certainly as bad as any sweat shops out there, only in some ways it's worse because it's not being done for survival, but simply to make the host country look good. Sad.

So, everyone pretty much KNEW they were cheating, (all you really needed to do was look at them... if you've been around little kids, you know what they look like), but the Chinese government had created false passports to support the cheating. This is a very different kind of cheating that goes way beyond drug use. That usually is 1 athlete or perhaps 1 coach and 1 team, not the actual government of the country being in on the lie. But in an event where the Chinese are trying to show they are not the horrible and murderous regime that they have always been, this simply proves that nothing has really changed except they have better marketing and PR people right now. Evil is still evil. I feel very sorry for the Chinese people who are stuck with this brutal regime in charge. They have so many legitimate champions in their mix, this only calls ALL of them into question now. Why do I say that? Because if the government is willing to go so far to cheat for these gymnasts, why wouldn't they be willing to bribe judges (like those of Cuba who have made MANY questionable calls) with any sort of national level negotiations to offer in exchange? What would stop them from fixing the timing clocks or the judging software or fixing tiny aspects of the lanes on a track or other physical things (like the boats or the radios coaches use etc..) to win? The answer is, you'd be totally naive to think they aren't doing exactly that. Because they've proven themselves willing to cheat in the most heinous ways (by essentially robbing little girls of years of their life and often bribing their parents to force them to keep at it, like the parents did to the captain of the chinese team who forced her to stay in the program so they could get a house in exchange) we have to assume they've had scientists working on doping systems that can't be detected and that they've fixed the clocks and other things to win, or to keep their biggest opponents in the various events from winning.

Tonight, Bob Costas said they documents have surfaced proving that one of the Chinese girls is only 14. They may lose all but 2 of their bronze medals because of it. The sad part is that with the excellence of their team, they might have competed well or even won with their athletes that were actually old enough. So they kepts those people from honestly going for it and have brought utter shame to their entire country. Again, I hate ALL the cheaters, including those from the US. I rooted against 1 US athlete who had been banned for cheating because I can't trust her and think anyone caught intentionally cheating should be banned for life.

So the Chinese regime is exactly what it has always been. An oppressive propaganda machine used to keep their people down and a few in power. But of course they're joined by the Russians as well. Not in the Olympics, but in what they are doing in Georgia first and also by threatening to use NUKES against Poland because Poland is participating in the missile defense system and also asked for some weapons to defend themselves. Those weapons can't be used for OFFENSIVE war.. but that doesn't matter to the Russians.. they don't want Poland, which is the gateway to the rest of Europe, to be able to defend themselves from Russia should they decide to invade once again. Guess they're just as evil as ever as well.

In the face of these realities, the next US election really becomes a life or death issue. The trouble for me is that I am not sure that either major party candidate is up to the task. The US has lost ground in so many ways due to the last 2 administrations (Clinton and Bush) that we seem to be at a major crossroads and we need a great leader to get us out of the rut and back to where we can keept the threats of China and Russia at bay for the benefit not only of the US, but everyone else in the world as well. The Russians are wanting to go back to the good old days of the Soviet Union where they filled the gulags with the people from the satelite countries they raped and pillaged for resources and workers and the Chinese, who have slowly been buying up the US and gaining more and more economic control over us, are not to be trusted with anything even as minimal of using little underage girls to wage their propaganda war.

Very scary times indeed.

Brian



Brian Austin Whitney
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#644706 - 08/22/08 04:06 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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And if they don't bring home the gold, they'll wind up in "Bodies.. the Exhibit" {If you see a couple of 4 ft females posed as gymnasts
in next years exhibit, don't say I didn't tell you so!}


bc
#644723 - 08/22/08 04:56 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Ft. Myers, FL. USA
Remember what Sadam did to his soccer players.

#644740 - 08/22/08 06:31 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: ben willis]  
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Scott Campbell Offline
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I have many of the same feelings that you do, Brian.

The young gymnasts won't get busted - I would be very surprised if they don't keep their medals. Why? Because while you can catch individual cheaters you can't bust a cheating state. They are, by definition, official. The athletes have passports that say they're old enough. Nothing else, short of a confession, will trump that. And that ain't gonna happen.

Yes, is sad....

Scott


#644812 - 08/22/08 10:36 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Scott Campbell]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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Yes Brian,,,The Russian "BEAR" is starting to growl again..They definately do not want Poland as part of the N.A.T.O. set-up,and their invasion and bullying of Georgia is a reminder to us all..they have not changed...They could very easily set up another empire in eastern europe if they so wished...only America would be able to stand up to them...BUT.. the most worrying aspect of this whole episode is our reliance on Russia to supply the rest of the strong economies in Europe with our energy,namely GAS..(not gas, as you call it for cars..Gas for heating and cooking etc)..They could quite easily hold the vast majority of Europe to ransom..via their gas supplies..and of course with the price of natural gas increasing daily(20% rise on all British Gas Bills just announced for this winter,across the board)the Russian ecomony is getting stronger by the day,and of course this wealth is being pumped into more weapons....and in turn the "bear" is starting to look around for victims...and possibly reclaim the old Soviet Territories...Scary times indeed Sir!.........Terry..

#644860 - 08/23/08 12:23 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Terry Moore]  
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ben willis Offline
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The aggressor makes the rules. Russia is the aggressor again. They want to compare what they are doing with what the US did in Iraq.
The US enforced a UN resolution that Saddam stuck his middle finger to the world at. The invasion was legal. He threw UN inspectors out who had a legal right to be there, and pounded his chest at the world bragging about having nuclear power.
The US and UN offered Saddam exile before they invaded and he turned them down. He was a fool, because he is dead now.
Now Russia and Iran want to be fools too. What will they accomplish?
There is no way to defeat the USA, because we are free people who will volunteer to fight when it comes time. Others have to force people to fight. These foolish countries will never learn. They are cowards. Ben

#644881 - 08/23/08 02:39 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: ben willis]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Indianapolis, IN USA
China actually could be the swing vote, but they'll likely play it all neutral. They border Russia and if they desired the mass number of troops (which more than quadrupled the entire Russian population) could keep Russia in line short of using Nukes. The only US option realistically on the table is nukes. And if we have to use them, the entire world will never be the same again. I think the Russians are willing to risk ending the world as we know it figuring that the US would never do it and thus we have no other way of stopping them. So China, as backwards as they are in many ways, could demonstrate the enlightended position and end this Russian nonsense with conventional military threat. Without that, I am not sure what else can stop the Russians. If the nukes start flying, I guess the place to be will be Australia and South America.. the rest of the world will be in ruins.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#644904 - 08/23/08 04:58 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Joe Wrabek (D) Offline
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Jes' a maybe dissenting political-economic thought or two.

Russia, no matter who was running the place--Czars, Bolsheviki, or whatever it is they've got now--has always felt a need to control what is now considered Poland. that's because there are no natural borders--invading is as easy as crossing from Kansas into Nebraska. And an army can go far over flat ground in the right kind of weather. a big, neutral Poland is okay--that's existed before (in fact, the Russians have helped *maintain* a big, neutral Poland in the past)--but having missiles in Poland *pointed at* Russia is probably too much for their institutional paranoia.

It's a lot like the nuclear missiles in Cuba back in 1962. The U.S. didn't mind (too much) having an enemy country just 90 miles from Miami (we did try to overthrow the government, though, you'll recall), but when somebody moved missiles in, we almost started a war over it. I kinda sympathize with the Russians.

I am inclined not to worry overmuch about the Russians using nukes. I think they got pretty thoroughly educated in the Mutually Assured Destruction stuff of the Cold War. Besides, with their oil and gas reserves, if they can learn capitalism fast enough, they'll control the economy of Europe anyway, whether anybody likes it or not, and they could have a lkot of fun with that.

Where I worry about nukes is some tinhorn idiot in (say) Iran, North Korea, or worse. A lot of them do not care, and some act like they have nothing to lose. The Muslim extremists are particularly scary because of the whole goin'-to-Heaven-fightin'-for-the-Lord mindset. They have no reason *not* to use nuclear weapons.

The Chinese do not need nuclear weapons, and I think they know it. They have *bodies*. They can (and probably do) breed and train soldiers the same way they do olympic gymnasts, and they are the primary reason Eisenhower and a few other generals always warned against getting into a land war in southeazst Asia. Remember the old proverb: "Somewhere in china, a womnan is giving birth every 20 seconds. And we have to stop her."

How about this for a scenario? The big war (tinhorn idiots aside) will be between China and India over who's going to get the resources in Russia. That will be a big, bloody but non-nuclear conflict. When the winner faces Russia, that's probably when it becomes nuclear. Russia doesn't have the population to defend itself and never has.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

joe

#644948 - 08/23/08 10:08 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Joe Wrabek (D)]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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Without a doubt ,China is gonna be a very big player on the world scene in the next decade or so.It is a massive country,with a massive population,but the nature of the Chinese people in general, is passive.Their next door neighbours Japan,are not..as history has proved...India,again borders on China,that is another economy that is getting bigger by the hour..these countries are no longer the "poor cousins" to the big western boys..look at the olympics,the organisation and skill that went into that showpiece...the world will have a totally different shape in a few years..go east young man..instead of west..will be the business cry...then stick Russia into the equation,with all it's energy reserves,to feed these two awakening sleeping industrial giants on their doorstep...so who needs America? who needs the UK?..who needs NATO?...it will be two fingers up to the lot of them from this coalition..WE are going to end up the poor relation to this mob in the future..we are going to end up the customer,and them the supplier...The world and it's auntie invaded China for the olympics...would it or did it change anything regards how they run their country..you must be joking!..look but don't touch...but this is how it is done! and this is only the start..try and better it!..that is their motto...while the west is turning to seed,thru greed,complacancy,and "we are the best " attitude,the other side of the world are slowly but surely taking over by stealth...sure as day follows night...Uncle Sam,and the British Bulldog,are being slowly relegated to the back rows of the world stage...........Terry..

Last edited by Terry Moore; 08/23/08 10:09 AM.
#645023 - 08/23/08 02:37 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Terry Moore]  
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James Austin Offline
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I truly agree with you as the U.S. and the U.K. taking a back seat on the world economics stage. I wrote a song about that happening on this side of the pond, It's called "Seems Like 'American' Is Gone". You can hear it at myspace.com/jamesaustinmusic and it will be out on my new album sometime in September.

Have a great day. James Austin, White Pine, TN

#645072 - 08/23/08 06:39 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: James Austin]  
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Emily Sanders Offline
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Emily Sanders  Offline
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Santa Monica, CA

Great topic! On the General Board, there was a thread about this, which was posted on Aug. 13th...I am posting what I wrote then right here...with a few more thoughts...as I still feel VERY strongly about the Chinese gymnasts and the lying about ages:

I usually love all aspects of the Olympics, from the Opening Ceremonies to the many exciting events. I really liked the Opening Ceremonies this time, and particularly enjoyed the little girl who was supposedly singing. How pathetic that the Chinese had to lie about who was really singing. Great values here : "You're not pretty enough to represent our country" - I thought the girl who really sang was ADORABLE!!!! Makes me wonder how many other lies are present in these games...?

However, even though I am enjoying many of the Olympic events, and have enormous respect for their hard work and dedication...I do NOT enjoy the lying and deception from the host country.

I do not enjoy watching the Chinese gymnasts who are obviously NOT the age of the other gymnasts in the Olympics.

Obviously, the Chinese gymnasts did an outstanding job and do derserve the medals they earned. Their training is amazing, and their performance was fabulous...However, I wonder what the outcome would have been if the Chinese gymnasts had actually been the age of the other TEENAGERS in the Olympics???

For over 30 years, I have worked with children and teenagers of all ages and cultures, and have seen many kids who are tiny or big or small for their ages...all sizes and shapes....believe me...I KNOW when I see someone who is NOT a teenager. Since the Chinese choose their gymnasts at a very young age, I am guessing that they change birth records and passports BEFORE these kids are even competing, so that nothing can be proven or challenged later on during Olympic trials and competitions, when people might be quetioning a 72 pound kid who claims to be 16...hmm...

There was an article in the Los Angeles Times today about proving ages with x-ryas - bones fuse at specific ages...However, it is unlikely that the Chinese would ever consent to this type of testing, as it would scientifically prove the ages...

I would welcome a future Olympics where ALL of the "women" gymnasts are of the age reuqired by the Olympic Committee. I am proud of the United States for being truthful about American gymnasts and their ages.

Emily

Last edited by Emily Sanders; 08/23/08 06:40 PM.
#645122 - 08/23/08 10:23 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Emily Sanders]  
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Johnny Daubert Offline
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Johnny Daubert  Offline
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At least they aren't sending old teens and young adults to get killed in Iraq. Who's worse?

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
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#645156 - 08/24/08 12:06 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Bass2x Offline
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SoNJ
Originally Posted by John Daubert
At least they aren't sending old teens and young adults to get killed in Iraq. Who's worse?

John


That's a sad comment, to say the Chinese are better than Americans. I don't believe that for a minute. On any level.


“I got nasty habits; I take tea at three”

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#645159 - 08/24/08 12:35 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Bass2x]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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John,

No, they just kill and dispose of anyone who dissents in public. And they steal the organs of political prisoners to save the lives of the party faithful.. shall I go on? = )

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

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#645169 - 08/24/08 01:45 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
Joe,

The comparison isn't remotely the same. Russia was putting OFFENSIVE Nukes in Cuba capable of attacking the US. The Patriot missles are DEFENSIVE and would only be used if Poland was being attacked already.. they couldn't be used to attack anyone else. That's not what they do. So it only affects Russia if they are already attacking Poland. It's not the same thing at all. Russia is a war mongering evil country.. it's sad because I don't think their people are at all.. I've met some of them and they're just like us.. they just have a worse government than the western countries do.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#645184 - 08/24/08 03:03 AM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Mar 2007
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Phil Chapman Offline
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Phil Chapman  Offline
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Posts: 158
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
John,

No, they just kill and dispose of anyone who dissents in public. And they steal the organs of political prisoners to save the lives of the party faithful.. shall I go on? = )

Brian


Of course you're absolutely right, Brian. Unfortunately, a depressingly significant percentage of people (mostly on the left) have never met a tyrant they didn't like. They excoriate America for toppling a tyrannical regime in Iraq all the while excusing Russia for trying to topple a democratic government in Georgia.

They hide their moral compass under the bed and pretend that toppling a dictator is morally equivalent to toppling a democracy. They call it nuance. I call it sophistry.

#645286 - 08/24/08 01:12 PM Re: Friday, August 22nd, 2008 [Re: Bass2x]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,026
Joanne Lurgio Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joanne Lurgio  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,026
RI, USA
Originally Posted by Bass2x
Originally Posted by John Daubert
At least they aren't sending old teens and young adults to get killed in Iraq. Who's worse?

John


That's a sad comment, to say the Chinese are better than Americans. I don't believe that for a minute. On any level.


was there a draft in the us? i don't think so.

on subject ... shame on the chinese gvt. It may be just my humble opinion, but I do believe, the USA is still, by far one of the BEST places to live.

Joanne



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