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#624995 06/11/08 10:19 PM
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I got this little story from a Nashville myspace friend and it goes as follows:

Jun 11, 2008 12:09 PM
Subject:THIS IS A MUST READ FOR ALL SINGER/SONGWRITER'S
Body:
Hi, everyone. Well as you can see I don't blog very often and rarely post bulletins, but this is a story I just have to share...

So, last Tuesday night I did a "songwriter's night" at a place in Franklin, TN called the Listening Room Cafe. Now, for those of you who may not know what a "songwriter's night" is, it's an opportunity for local singer/songwriter's to test original songs out on a live audience and network. Anyway, I went with my guitar player, my music manager and her husband. After I performed that night we all stuck around to eat dinner, have some drinks and listen to the other songwriters. At the end of the night we paid the hefty tab and left a generous tip.

Well, last night I went out to the Listening Room Cafe again to sign up and perform like I had last Tuesday. This time I had invited another songwriter who is only 17 years old, my best friend Lacey and of course my guitar player David. When we arrived we found laminated signs on each of the tables that read "$8 minimum PER person". They didn't have those signs out on the tables last Tuesday so I didn't think much of it and assumed it applied to the customers coming in to watch the performers for the evening. At the end of the night the waitress asked me for $16 to cover me and my guitar player. I told her I had just performed (thinking she hadn't seen me) and she replied "yeah, I know you did but everyone has to pay"... Well, I only had $4 with me.... So the waitress waves this guy over (who I discover is the owner) and he says to me "what did you think about my signs"? I politely replied "I assumed they were for the people coming in to watch me and the other songwriters perform". He then snaps back at me in a demeaning tone "well, people can't just come in here, sit around and not order anything, I gotta make money"... to which I replied..."I brought 2 people in here tonight that spent $15 each for a small basket of chicken and last week I brought 3 people with me who spent over $60 on food and drinks, and to top it off I spent $10 in gas to drive out here and perform for your customers for free and you want to charge me" $16? He then said "I'll let it slide this one time, but don't let it happen again" and then he walked off.

It takes someone with great people skills and even better customer service skills to run a business...That guy has neither.

All I can say is..."news travels fast in a small town".

donnoble #625044 06/12/08 12:21 AM
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It sounds to me like the author of this blog is a bit naive. These business owners and their staff have to make a living, also. They posted their business policy in very plain language on each table.

The knee-jerk reaction of many would be to get down on the business. But we all see how many places discontinue their "writer's nights" and other live music nights. Few places even have live music anymore, compared to the 1970's and early 1980's. We also see how many clubs and restaurants go out of business. Life is tough for everyone and we all have to be considerate of each other. As the top of this page says: "We're all in this together."


https://www.stonemarmot.com
Stone Marmot
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Andy K #625056 06/12/08 01:57 AM
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Yeah, and in some places, bands are renting the stage from the club so they can have the privilege of playing there!

It all comes down to supply and demand. Too many musicians and too few people who want to hear them.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


Colin Ward #625063 06/12/08 02:33 AM
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welcome to "nashburg"
it was the same in the 70's my friend. not much different from FL. huh.

Jak Kelly #625241 06/12/08 07:35 PM
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Yeah, I can see both sides to this story. I've been tons of places full of musicians taking up seats and having a $1 water over 4 hours. I've BEEN one of those musicians! Some of those businesses end up failing. Businesses need to make money.

On the other hand, the tone that the manager took would be enough for me to never go there again and to tell everyone I knew what an ass the guy was. Customer service still matters, even when disagreeing with a customer. Some businesses are run by people like that and they don't mind losing customers, and some people are OK with that, but I'm not. If you screw me over or you act like an ass, my business is gone forever. On the other hand, if you treat me well, I'm an extremely loyal customer, to the point of paying more money at your business when I can get it down the street for less.

Some singer/songwriter nights are held on off nights at businesses where they're not going to have any customers anyway, so they don't have much to lose, unless the folks organizing the night are asking for money. Same with open mic night. A business can't afford to lose money or customers. Some open mic nights the level of talent is not, um, very high, which can actually cause a business to lose customers - like, "Oh my god, listen to that lady try to sing. I can't take this. C'mon, let's leave." And those folks might not come back. It might not even be that. It could be they just don't like music, or whatever style of music the person is performing.

And there's no way in HELL I would ever go to a place and be forced to order 8 bucks worth of whatever where I was performing. Not while there's other places I can go. And there are. I've never agreed with the pay to play idea and I never will.


Richard MacLemale
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These places are giving me a chance to play my music. I have been to many and hosted a few open mics here and in Nashville and it has to work that way. They are trying to keep people in the seats and the lights on. The "infamous" Blubird Cafe in Nashville has the same signs and they will ask you to leave if you don't buy anything. I have seen it done in the middle of somebody's set. Remember, we need them more than they need us. One trick is if you don't have a lot make a trip to the bar , order your water and leave the bartender a 5dollar tip and nothing will be said.


Bob Lever
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Bob Lever #625609 06/14/08 12:19 AM
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Well, I can't compare Tampa to Nashville because I've never been to Nashville... only Tampa. But I have yet to attend an open mic night in Tampa where they've put signs on the tables about having to spend 8 bucks or whatever. I haven't heard about anyone else going to such a place here, either. The closest thing I've heard is the place up in Hudson, I think it is, where the performers get in free but other folks have to pay 5 bucks, and my understanding is that they are now screening the performers. And I can't imagine bringing a friend to hear me play there, and pay 5 bucks, when there are other open mic nights where they can come and see me for free. Hell, if it's my friend, I'll just take my acoustic guitar to their house and play.

I can't judge someplace in Nashville. That town, from what I've been told (haven't been there) is crammed full of talented musicians all wanting to be noticed. It could very well be that in order to "make the scene" there, ie to get noticed by other musicians who can possibly turn you on to some nice opportunities, you have to spend some money. I can see where someone wanting to have a career in the music biz could justify the expense in that manner, and for them it would probably make sense. Maybe. From what I've heard, most people "make the scene," nothing really comes of it, and they end up moving away and doing something else. But I don't know that for a fact, it's just what people have told me.

As far as us needing businesses more than they need us... that's definitely true. We have to play where we are wanted. But it's not like there's no place at all to play. There are places you can play that will PAY you. There are places that you can play where they won't pay you, but you can put out a tip jar and sell CD's. And there are singer/songwriter nights and open mic nights that are free.

I'd rather play in a coffee shop in front of 8 people and have one person come up and buy my CD than play in front of 50 other musicians who don't give a rat's ass about me and are just waiting for their turn to get up and perform. But that's just me.

My opinion of a good open mic night was the now defunct open mic night at La Casa Dolce. It was NOT a collection of musicians trying to make it, or a collection of musicians trying to impress each other, or sell CD's, or gain fans, or get noticed by a record company bigwig. It was a group of musicians who mostly knew each other, liked each other's music, and liked the opportunity to get together and listen to each other. The business benefited because, quite frankly, if we weren't there, they would have had 5 people in the place. The musicians benefited because we all enjoyed it. It WAS a win-win. I was sad to see it go.

And there's an online equivalent to all of this, too. Look at garageband.com. You can pay, if you want, to have other musicians judge your music, in a competition type format. Somehow, some winners are chosen, and they go to the top of the garageband charts. Which translates into practically nothing in the real world. Sounds familiar.


Richard MacLemale
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I guess I will pipe in with my 2 cents worth. We all know this business of music we are all in and around. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE BUSINESS and very little about the art anymore. Has been that way for decades as Jak alluded to. If you look the look, sometimes regrdless of talent, you're a millionare overnight. Need I say more? That sounds like sour grapes but read on, it really isn't. A caveat - the independent music scene is the biggest catalyst to change that side of the industry!!! Go INDIE MUSIC!!

These small venues are no different. Most just want a small piece of that music industry pie - I guess legend has it that places like the Bluebird, etc, can lead to bigger and better things. Whatever.

Do you honestly think if a county music star went in there to try out some new material, they'd have to pay the cover? Stupid question, of course not! Even if they brought in a 20 person crew and took up 5 paying tables.

This industry has always been about who you know, how you look, and not how talented you are. If it wasn't that way so many people we all know, even in our Tampa chapter, would be stars! Jak Kelly is one who comes to mind right off the bat. Sheila Kirsten Hughes, all of you, hell everyone I've seen at JPF meetings are talented enough to be stars to me, humbly. The business 'aint like that unfortunately.

But also unfortunately, these small venue owners can care less about art and music. All they care about is putting paying butts in the seats. Andy is right too - they run a business...not a not-for-profit music promotion club. If it means treating the artist like trash (artists who haven't made it yet), well, what else is new.

Man that sounded pessimistic. I am not really that down on the music industry, I just know the animal I'm dealing with, that's all.

One last disclaimer, Obviously, many stars who have made it are extremely talented as well...they just know people, got lucky, karma, whatever. For every one of them, there is probably 100 in each town as talented and will never make it!

There I go, sounding negative again. I'd better stop here.

Let's just say, I agree with many of you, but like with Richard, I play for the love of music, fellowship, friends, and the art, and how it makes me feel to play and sing, Not to "make it" anymore...not many 45 year old bald musicians "breaking in" to the industry. smile

Peace...AWP

CanisLupus #625767 06/14/08 07:52 PM
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Well said, Alex. I'm not sure about the part about having the look and being an overnight hit - even the folks who have the look are struggling nowadays! You're a great looking twenty two year old who sounds just like Rob Thomas? Take a number. smile

At the end of the day, it comes down to a small handful of things. What are your goals, what are you willing to do with your life, how talented are you now, and what is your potential?

I read the local music rag (can't remember the name because it's something stupid and meaningless) and there's tons of twenty-something bands who are all struggling down that road to stardom or at least being able to pay the bills with music.

Who said this quote? "If at first you don't succeed, give up. No point in being a damn fool about it." I can't remember right now. W. C. Fields or someone like that, probably. But the odds of making a career out of writing and performing music are astronomically bad. It's not like athletics... in football, if you can run a 4.3 40 and you can catch a ball, you've got a shot. If you run a 4.9 40, you don't have a prayer no matter what your last name is or who your Dad or Uncle is, or what you look like. That's one of the reasons I kinda like sports.

I think people have the wrong idea about music. Like they buy a Fender Squire at 16, they learn 5 chords, they slap together a song that sounds like what they like to listen to, and they call it art and suddenly they've found their life's calling. I can say these things because I wasn't all that different at that age. And I was stupid then.

Here's the truth - You can go to college, get a degree in something that pays money, graduate and get a job... and all the while, you can still be in a band or writing songs, still performing, still improving as a musician. In the past, maybe you don't have time for school because you have to buy that Ford van and tour and tour until you make it. The news flash now is this - that approach is dead, dead, dead. It ain't gonna work, and even if it does, you're not going to get signed by a major label for a big advance, and even if you do, they'll most likely dump you by your 3rd album and you'll leave owing them money. The odds are insane and you might be better off buying lottery tickets, I dunno.

People have asked me why I didn't teach music, or be a band director, or something like that. And I'd respond, "Because I really LOVE music" and they'd say "Yeah, but you could be doing music all day long." And I'd say, "Yeah, but I love it partially because I DON'T do it all day long." They still didn't understand but I didn't know how to better explain it. I totally do music on my own terms. That to me is worth everything.

But I'm way off topic. Back on topic. If you're going to make a living as a musician, you're most likely going to be working some type of musical day job - working in Sam Ash, or repairing instruments, or being the band director at a school. That's reality. So here's a thought. Why not go and get that Bachelor's degree and be the MANAGER at the music store? What's the diff? 4 years of having fun in college and triple the salary to spend on gear. ARGH, I'm still off topic.

Anyway, much like Steve V's song, I find myself playing to empty seats quite often. That's just the way it is, but I'm OK with that. It's just for fun. My favorite format, actually, isn't open mic or playing out myself - it's singer/songwriter's night. Go up, play for 30 minutes, sit down, and hang out. What good fun.





Richard MacLemale
Music = http://www.richardmac.com

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