JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Musician Message Forum Demos & Services Things To Look for and Look Out For

Hi Gang,

This is not about promoting MY demo services and does reflect upon everyone else's. I have been here a few years now so you know what I'm all about, the only thing better than my services is my reputation! And I'll always keep it that way.
As always my foremost intentions are to help you my friends here.

Songwriters especially ones who haven't ever been in a band are the least experienced at this stuff and are the victims to poor services and other nonsense.

I may keep an on going list here of things that you should look at and consider when checking into making a demo or recording. Whether it's online or in person in a studio.


1- Very simple, everyone knows. LOOK into a place before you start investing your money... We know, we know, Yet I hear stories all the time.

2- Do not start 3 songs or more at one time, AVOID package deals until you really know the place from start to finish. Meaning First chord to mixdown to master...

3- Do ONE SONG and expierence every aspect of the studio all the way to the completed stage. Do not start a few things at once and have all these basic tracks down and find out you dont like the mix or the return time, or some other policy. If things don't work out at ANY stage, you'll only have ONE SONG suffereing from it.

4- "WE ARE LOOKING FOR SONGS" We deal with all kinds of people in Nashville and in the industry who are looking for original songs and etc......etc...... etc.....
YOU ARE A DEMO HOUSE! Now I'm not saying that some people and places don't have this as a legitimate service. All I'm saying is I can't count how many times I see this.. How very convient that we SHOP songs and we RECORD them to. Pick one!
What a great way to get your business isn't it? The Dangling Carrot.

5- Songwriters, lyricist especially can you tell the difference between Midi Tracks and programming from live tracks? it's getting harder and harder for anyone to tell.
There is NOTHING wrong with programming, I like it and it takes ability to do it well.
Just make sure if your paying for live players you're getting them.
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6- Use your EARS not only your EYES, many times you see a photo of a fancy studio with all kinds of things in it, Not saying that the studio doesn't have a great room or like we call it an A Room But then maybe the A Room is for the A Clients at $75 - $125 an hour not for your $150.00 demo. Who do you thinks getting the better room?
Yours gets done on a computer on a desk in a room the same size as the one your sitting in right now! However GREAT product is great no matter what room it's in. So that is stiil okay.... Just be aware of this pitch......

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NEW! #7- Dont let or try not to let the demo studio WRITE YOUR SONGS!
What is that all about? If your gonna have co-writers, then have co -writers. Now I guess having a service that says "Will put melodies and or Music to your lyrics" is okay. Some people may need that understandably. But then you are co owners of the song! Is that what you want?
Oh but are they saying for an additional $25 or $50 bucks we'll write it? So that means for $25 bucks they sold you ALL THERE RIGHTS to this song. BE SURE! you know what that's all about. Cause if you pitch it and perhaps get VERY lucky and get it picked up. You will be hearing from your song writing partners I promise. get that stuff way straight before doing anything!


I'll be back!! to continue

All The Best

Mike,
This is wonderful, great start with some solid advice!
Thanks for posting!
Michael

Thanks Michael,
No problem! It's some advice that no one ever gives you especially the ones doing the demos.

Excellent post, Mike. Here are some tips from last year on my MySpace blog:

Thursday, October 11, 2007


Saving money in the demo studio
Category: Music

We've all heard the old saying, "Time is money." Nowhere is that more true than in the demo studio. It's amazing to me when songwriters, publishers, producers and etc. end up wasting time in the studio. So I thought I'd write some tips to avoid wasting time in the studio.

Have the song ready. I'll say it again. Have the song ready. I've seen people spend hundreds of dollars to finish writing songs in the studio. If you want to save money, finish the song before you come to the studio. If I'm bandleader or arranger, and am writing charts for a song, I need to hear the song all the way through, start to finish, with no stops. If I'm writing a chart and someone stops in the middle of the song to say, "Now here you just repeat a verse." you can bet that there'll be an extra measure before repeating the verse, or the verse will be a little different than the previous verse. What happens? It can end up eating a half hour of studio time to find out where the problem is. Or, worse yet, if the vocal is to be added later, it might be after the band has gone home when it's discovered that the words to that verse don't fit the music. It can cost a bundle. Have the song ready, that means the melody, the chords, and the meter. The tempo can be played with and not eat up a lot of time. The key can wait until right before recording (unless you've got arrangements written in standard notation instead of numbers). Have the song ready.

Most importantly, are the songs ready in terms of quality? A good demo can make a good song just a little bit easier to pitch. A bad demo might not kill a good song. But a bad song may only get slightly better with an absolutely excellent demo...and even then, probably not. Are you writing up to pro standards? Read songwriting books and magazines. Check out songwriting forums like JPFolks.com (you are a member, arent' you?) When you think you're getting "in the ballpark" you might try a service like Barbara Cloyd's that critiques your work. Again, have the song ready.

Being "picky" can cost beaucoup bucks. There's nothing wrong with getting the song the way you want it. But you've got to be able to communicate what you want to the musicians. I did a session once with a gal who kept saying she wanted the tracks to go "boom, boom, boom." The musicians had no idea what she meant. She said, "You know, like George Strait." We had a guy who played on one of George Strait's albums at the session...he had no idea what she meant. So the producer found three George Strait cds, including a "best of" cd. We listened to parts of over 30 songs. "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No.""Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No.""Like this?" "No." "Like this?" "No." You get the picture. Of course, she thought we were the ones who were wrong.

If you're on a tight budget, don't try to use expensive studio techniques. A bunch of us were on a slam-demo session. The producer was charging very little for demos and we were recording them one right after the other. Then came a fellow who wanted a part of the song to slow down, stop, come in and accellerate a bit, slow down, stop, then come in at a totally different tempo. The musicians were a pretty good bunch, our piano player had won several grammies in the pop and rock category including some "records of the year." But, here we were in a small studio, unable to see the drummer, and this songwriter wanted a mixed tempo nightmare to record. "I thought you were supposed to be great musicians," he said,"You can't even play this!" I patiently explained to him that on records where this happens, the players are in a large studio and there's a conductor keeping everyone together. Lucky thing the guy caught on, the piano player was ready blow a gasket. If you're on a tight budget, the best thing is to trust the session players to make the song sound good...it might not be exactly what you heard in your dream of the song, but you'll be able to afford to eat the rest of the month. Big production numbers can be recorded, but they are more expensive.

Get backtracks of your songs. A backtrack is a recording of the song without the vocal, like Karaoke. Some studios might charge a little more for one. I'd recommend getting them with and without the harmony vocals. This way, if you change the words in the third verse, or decide you want a singer who sounds more like Tim McGraw than Louis Armstrong, you can just pay for a singer and overdub without having to bring musicians in again. It needs to be the same key, of course. If you're lucky, and haven't changed the lyrics or melody in that spot, the harmony vocals will work with the new singer.

If you're using union musicians, then you should consider whether or not you really need a master session. A master session is one that can, according to union regulations, be offered for commercial release...the song can be sold, for example, as a download for a buck or whatever. A demo is a "demonstration" recording. It cannot be commercially released or sold, but can be used to demonstrate the song to get it cut or to get a label interested in it, your demos can be downloaded for free (if you own the copyright on the song.) Master union recordings are often more expensive than demo recordings. Some folks will pay for master recordings and offer paid downloads only to make a few dollars, if that, all year. To me, that's hardly worth it. To me, if a songwriter has someone else singing their songs, there's more money to be made by getting that song cut and released. Some songwriters will release the song themselves but there are VERY few songs that sell any amount worth mentioning without having a lot of money and time invested in promoting. If you're not using union musicians, then make sure you get a "work for hire" agreement. Just do a search at JPF (you are a member of JPFolks.com, arent you?) and you can find more info on that. To save money, just get demos. You can always upgrade from demos to masters later.

Consider using an experienced demo house or a reputable demo producer. A good producer can save you money in the long run. I've been on many sessions where a songwriter just hires a bunch of musicians, then gets bogged down for an hour with some problem that a producer could solve in a few minutes. It's like building a house without a contractor. After a few sessions, if you want to try your hand at producing, be my guest (I hope I"m on the session and it pays by the hour LOL.) Of course, I know a few songwriters and singers who are excellent producers.

The same goes for using your own home studio. If you want to start a home studio for a hobby and are interested in learning engineering and sound, then it's a good idea. If you're trying to save money, well, it's like saying "I work across the lake, it would save money if instead of driving, I bought a nice sailboat and just sailed to work every day!" If you do want to record as a hobby, I recommend hiring an experienced engineer to help you learn the ropes, and even a producer for the first session or two.

Happy Sessions,
Mike

Treasure troves.

Folks, I've done a lot of demos in Nashville and I can tell you that the information generously offered in this thread should be imprinted in you mind before you pull out the checkbook.

I would add one more thing: unless it is just absolutely impossible, you should be present when your "baby" is born.

#7 is the New one


Thanks MIchael, Truman, Mark & Mike

Mike D - That is EXCELLENT stuff man!!!

Thanks!

Thanks guys. A wealth of information at a pauper's price!

Al

One lesson learned-but I need to back up a step.
I was working with a pro on a song and he felt that I should get a complete demo after about 3 sessions on a song with him. Paid for the complete demo and sent it to NSAI for a critique thinking it would be passed onto the "meeting". NOPE. Suggestions to make it better, which were founded. So, no matter who you work with, if you are trying to write commercially, do the basic acoustic demo and get critiqued before you do a full blown one.

Also, the service had some really great session players available for my demo and they wanted to do a guitar solo. I agonized about that one knowing they always tell you to leave the musical solos out. But, he talked me into it. Big Mistake. I'm getting pinged on my critiques on that one too. It's about the song-melody and words-not some instrumental-sorry to all you great instrumentalists out there. But, it appears that I don't understand the industry when I allowed that to happen. This is one of those unwritten rules that tell the publisher the difference between a newbie and a professional.

I hope this info helps.

Great advice, Mike. I hear you on point (4). Like you say, the service might be professional and reasonably priced, but the bait is a major turn off. I understand that the demo biz is competitive, but it is never a good idea to bait the fish with plastic worms.

Other that you, there is one guy I use in Nashville for my country stuff. I once asked him if he could do a country version of my 'Mother's Day' song. I am sure you remember that one. Well, he basically told me it had no country elements at all and had too many, as he put it, 'artsy-fartsy' jazz chords. This made me fall in love with him right away.

As much as I dislike American Idol, in a way I respect Simon because you always know that you are going to get a truthful opinion out of him. No song or performance is perfect and there can always be improvement, even if that involves changing a single word in the lyric. Given the stiff competition at the top level of the song-writing game, you need to get as close to perfect as you can get and the truth should always be taken as an education, especially if it is critical.

You have never been afraid to tell me what you believe my songs might need, which is one of the reasons I use you. Sometimes I take your suggestions, and sometimes not, but I always appreciate the honesty.

Like you, I am basically a nice guy, but more often than not, I will not give feedback to a lyric or song that I think is bad because I don't want to hurt people's feelings. But not commenting does the writer no good. Unfortunately, a lot of writers get offended if you are too critical of their work. If you don't have thick skin, you shouldn't ask for the opinions of others.

I am usually up front about things when I ask for a critique and sometimes I will specifically state that I am looking for a CRITIQUE, not an ego boost. If you think the song is great, great. If not, I want you to tell me why and give me suggestions on how to improve it.

If you are unwilling to process constructive criticism, you will never make it in this industry. Frequently, suggestions are made with the intent on IMPROVING the end result and that doesn't mean that the person doing the suggesting thought the song was bad, only that he/she has ideas that might make it better.

It is important to distinguish between writing and recording as a hobby or writing and demoing seriously to pitch. If you are just doing it for amusement then spend on your hobby what you can afford. However if you are aiming at pitching then you have to adopt a pro attitude at every step of the way.
The song must be of an acceptable standard and be what "THEY ARE LOOKING FOR"
It must be performed, recorded and mastered well. That costs a lot of money. So choose carefully.
Better to have one great demo that sells you and your song than several amateur songs that sell nothing.
Do not go into or use a studio that you have not checked out properly preferably one with a personal recommendation from someone you know and can trust.
Always negotiate and spell out exactly what you want/need from them and make sure that both you and them stick to it.
Prepare everything do your homework and work out a timetable and costs in advance. STICK TO IT.
Work in stages do not try to do too much at once. There is such a thing as a save button. It can be saved for another day.
Follow advice but remember the final decision is yours make it wisely.

Hi Mike & All

Thanks for all this good information. Just recently I got a quote to get a single done on my song "Don't push my button". Well I just found out from my singing teacher that they have a bad reputation, as for you foot the bill, and they own part of your CD, your song, so how does that work hah, I put all the money in, paid for all the recording, do the singing, and they will own so much percent of my song, for mastering it, 500 Cd's, the artwork, etc, for approximately $1600 Australian dollars. Hmmm!

Well I have been told of a couple of others to go to, what frightens me, is that others would be able to take advantage of me, cause I know nothing about the music industry, so it pays to ask hey.

Also, I pay Paul who does all the music & recordings of my songs, every time I go to him, he says to me all the time, that "Don't push my button" is my song, cause I pay him, so that is correct hey Mike.

Also another question? "Don't push my button" is it good enough to put out there as a single the way it is, or do I change the lyrics, some suggestions that I got off a re-write? I love my song the way it is, cause it's my story, many who have listened to it, love it also, I just get confused. What do I do? I have started to work on my second song "I Wanna(Gonna)get over it" to record, and I am changing some of the lyrics again, and I am going to also put this song on a single with "Don't push my button" Hmmm, how do I know if I am doing the right thing? Totally confused & frightened that I don't waste money.


Thanks
Michele

Michelle,

Since you've asked, here's my take on your song:

Don't push my button

Hey, don't push my button I can't take it any more
Anger, tears, the sadness inside
I know now I've got my pride
So hey, don't push my button
I won't take it any more
Stronger, wiser, than ever before
I won't play the victim no more....


Good Chorus, good meter, good hook.
Verse

There was a time and a place
I was lost and confused
Young and trusting
Nothing to lose
Had a dream I held on for many a year
Never thought I'd be shedding these tears
Everyone around me seemed to move away
Only feels like yesterday
Weeks have turned to years
It's time to put it away......

Not a bad first verse, but you're saying how you felt without showing why you felt like that. Talking about a dream but not saying what the dream is. Describing tears without any clue as to why they are shed. Saying something feels like yesterday but not saying what. Having weeks turn into years, but from or towards what? And, it's time to put what away? Also, mostly in country music, the verses point somehow toward the hook. So I'd recommend a verse about why and/or how someone is pushing or did push your button, or a verse about your "button" and how someone can push it. The verse is well metered and uses language well, but basically you're telling us how you feel instead of showing us why you feel.

Chorus

Hey, don't push my button
I can't take it any more
Anger, tears, the sadness inside
I know now I've got my pride
So hey, don't push my button
I won't take it any more
Stronger, wiser, than ever before
I won't play the victim no more.....

Verse

I found a man
He's here today
Made me stronger in every way
Helped me take some steps
Enough to walk away
He understands
He holds me tight
Helps me through the day and night
Never turns away
Thank God for him today....

It sounds like "he's here today...in every way." are just a little "forced" as a rhyme. You say you found him, then say he's here. Maybe something like "My new man's with me today" So it's not two separate statements so approximate that they get slightly redundant. Helped me take some steps...what steps? How did it help?
"holds me tight" is the first true action, steps weren't an action, but a metaphor for actions or tactics one might take. Read lyrics of your favorite country songs and see how long it takes before there is an action verb and before there are concrete actions or situations that suggest ones' feelings to the listener, rather than simply listing the feelings the singer has.
"Helps me through the day and night" OK, when Kristofferson wrote "Help Me Make It Through the Night" he spent the whole song describing how and why he wanted to be helped, again, how does he help you? "Never turns away" possibly the second concrete action, unless turning away is a metaphor for an emotional retreat. How is "turning away" different? Did the old love turn away?


Chorus

Hey, don't push my button
I can't take it any more
Anger, tears, the sadness inside
I know now I've got my pride
So hey, don't push my button
I won't take it any more
Stronger, wiser than ever before
And I won't play the victim no more....

Music

Verse

Nows the time
I mean today
Get up and fight
Fight all the way
All your anger, sadness inside
I want you to take it in stride
All the tears that you will cry
The pain will heal it just takes time
And when some one tries to hurt you
I want you all to say..........Hey..........

First two lines. To whom are you singing? Who do you want to fight, what should they fight. Same with the anger and sadness. You want who to take what in stride? Then you finally say, "you all" OK, you want the world to to fight against being manipulated...having their buttons pushed. But until the end of the line, it's unclear through the whole song just to whom you are singing. Are you telling the whole world not to push your buttons? It seemed at the beginning you were singing to an old lover, then it moves to singing to the whole world. If you change to whom you are addressing the song, make it clear.

Chorus

Hey don't push my button
I can't take it any more
Anger, tears, the sadness inside
I know now I've got my pride
So, hey don't push my button
I won't take it any more
Stronger, wiser than ever before
And I won't play the victim no more
So hey...Repeat the chorus

By Michele Bolton (c) 2007

Basically, the song is well-written. It meters fine, has an excellent hook, and the verses are fairly clear (except for the shift from to whom you are singing). To take it to the next level, I'd do as written earlier: examine your favorite country songs. Look at classic country songs and current big hits. You'll find most of them speak concretely. If they sing directly to someone, they'll usually not shift that point of view. They'll have several concrete actions in the song, as well as some personal descriptive sections.

Listening to the song, the melody doesn't completely match the flow of the lyrics. A few of the lines sound "rushed." For example "sadness inside" is a little hard to understand. Instead of one and two and for "sadness inside" you might phrase it "one two three four." A good rule of thumb is when you are singing fast songs, try to use common single syllable words on eighth notes for example (and I'm not suggesting this as a change) if instead of "sadness inside" you'd sung "all of these things," it would be easier to understand at that speed. Otherwise the music is good. It is traditional country sounding, reminds me a bit of Loretta Lynn. For a current Nashville country song, it's a bit too traditional as a pitch. It could work as an Americana, or neo-traditional country pitch.

To sum up, it's this. As is, "Don't Push My Button" is a good country song. It could get indie airplay with the right artist and arrangement. It would be difficult to get cut in today's major label country market. To move it to the next level, to put it more in the level with some fairly well known traditional country songs such as Loretta Lynn's "You Ain't Woman Enough to Take My Man," it would need some work. To go further to the level of a masterpiece such as Kristofferson's "Help Me Make It Through the Night," it would need some truly inspirational touches as well. To move it into today's major country market, it would need all that as well as more modern country music.

Good work. You have talent. Don't stop writing. Work extremely hard and never give up.

Mike

Michele, You should take Mikes critique, print it out and memorize it. I don't know if you know it or not but he did you a great favor that most of us would love to have. A critique from a Nashville music producer free of charge.
You may know of Mike already, but if you don't, then take his advice and run with it. It can only help. Ben

Good stuff

Wow

Thanks so much Mike, for taking the time to go over my song. Cool, I will definitely print it out, and go over what you have suggested.

Michele
Aussie girl from down under