JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum NSAI Membership

Hi,

I did a search on this here but I'm probably doing it wrong because nothing comes up.

My question is, what is the general consensus on joining NSAI? It looks like it has a lot to offer, but I'd want to be sure I would use some of those services. I'm wondering how their song evaluation service is different? And does having a lyric only evaluated helpful, because after all, a song is not a complete song without its music.

Also are the Live Webcast workshops helpful? I guess it depends on what you're looking for....I'm not looking to perform, just write.

Thanks for any help,
Kristi

Yes they have alot to offer, ad yes the services are useful. They can and will evaluate your lyrics. And if you write a hit then they can help you even more. For people outside of Nashville, joining NSAI is one of the best decisions you can make.

Hi Kristi:

Joining any organization depends on many factors. NSAI is a great organization but I would advise you to study their services, attend a local chapter meeting or two and test the waters before coughing up what seems to be an excessive membership fee to my way of thinking.

I have investigated two different NSAI "Chapters" and found the atmosphere to be significantly different between the two groups. One appeared to be aimed at serving performing artists and the other was primarily for novice songwriters.

Make sure you are comfortable with the group, the direction they are headed and that the overall objectives of NSAI and the local chapter are suited to your specific needs.

Being a songwriter who prefers not to perform, I have pretty well determined that I will save my limited funds and struggle on by myself. At my age, I prefer to do things my way and don't feel that I need anyone to tell me how to write. That does not mean that I believe I have achieved any degree of success. Still, I am pleased with my progress of writing and recording more than 600 original songs in various genres.

Good luck in your songwriting career.

Dave Rice http://cdbaby.com/cd/davidlynnrice

I will be rejoining soon.
It's my third year.
I would like to use the services offered more, but think I am getting good value for my money.

How much does a one year membership cost?

Here's their website:

http://nashvillesongwriters.com/

It's a great group. Very helpful, a lot of resources.

Stevens, Dave, Lee, Truman, and Mike,

Thank you all for your perspectives. I appreciate it very much!

I see I'd have to use their webcasts because their is no regional workshop in my state. New York City is the closest one. It's $150 annual membership.

Lee, (if you come back to this post)- if you used their song evaluation service, do you feel you got a lot out of it? I think I read somewhere you can send in a song/lyric a month.

Thanks again guys,
Kristi

Kristi,

If there's no chapter in your area and you aren't going to make it to Nashville at least a couple times per year, the value of membership is pretty low. On the other hand, if you live in a city with an NSAI chapter, and they have a good coordinator, then it's often a great thing. Where do you live?

Brian

Hi Brian,

I live in Connecticut. New York is 1 1/2 hours away for me.

Kristi

Semms like a simple question then: is improving your songwriting worth an investment of about 6 hours and about $12 a month?

One other thing: I am quite certain that any non-member would be welcomed at any NSAI regional workshop to see what it is all about. If you are not sure that a regional workshop would benefit you, go to one and check it out.

Kristi:
I haven't used the song eval service in a while.
I plan to try it again soon.

I was using it regularly for a while. I felt that it would have been better to be able to submit songs with music. I was sending lyrics only and that didn't seem to work as well.

The thing I appreciate most, so far. are Chat With A Pro, and the Pro Teaching Nights.

How do you find out what cities have local chapters? I can seem to find any "simple" link to that.

Thanks,

Kevin

http://nashvillesongwriters.com/news.php?viewStory=214

My only beef with NSAI is they are shamelessly capitalistic. I think they're honorable, honest, sincere, and helpful, and their services are great, but they do know how to make money...after all, they did just buy the Bluebird Cafe. However, aak any major writer where they dug in in the beginning and they'll almost all say NSAI. But it frustrates me that they're so expensive, and after you've paid your dues many of the activities still require additional money. I think as members you should be able to enter 1 song in the contest for free. It think it should cost like $40/year and if you are a member you should get a better deal on the services. I was a member and didn't do much with it other than use a writer room every now and then...that's a great benefit...but I'd have obviously benefited more from it if I gotten more involved.

This is just my opinion, and there seem to be very few who are bothered by this, but being a forum I thought I'd throw it out there. If it's worth it to you and you plan to get involved and really make an effort to get what you can out of it, I'm sure you'll feel like it was a very good thing. Almost everyone who's a major player in the industry is a member.

br

Honestly I think $150/year is okay, but as a remote member, I really expect a better online experience in 2007.

They are really slow to update content and they've had pretty glitchy service. Also the site layout is really terrible for ease of finding the information you want.

TrumanCoyote,

Thanks for that link -- how did you find that?? I went back and looked, I never would have found that in a million years.

Thanks,

Kevin

Bill, I think you need to do some research and get your facts straight. "Shameless" is a pretty harsh word. "Capitalistic" is normally a good word in the USA and would usually be a compliment, except when preceeded by "shameless."

NSAI is neither. Unless you feel that they are an organization that shamelessly supports the rights and efforts of songwriters.

NSAI is a non-profit organization. They raise money through memberships, sponsorships and events. All the money they make is plowed back into the organization to cover operational costs. This is a requirement to keeping their tax-exempt status.

I suggest you go to their website and read the history of the organization and read the FAQ. If unconvinced, write to Bart Herbison and ask for an explanation of how NSAI handles their finances. I think your words are an insult to a good organization, but I think you can be forgiven for not having your facts right. Get it right than come back and tell us what you think.

$150 a year is $12.50 a month...less than 45 cents a day. It is hard for me to imagine that most people cannot reapportion 45 cents a day toward something that might help in their quest. That's less than a cup of coffee (about 1 tenth the cost of a large Starbucks). It's a few cigarettes. It's less than half a Coke at McD's. It's less than the cost of a newspaper. Everything is relative and each of us has to determine what any expenditure is worth. If you think NSAI has no value to you, don't join. If you think they do, but do not join for lack of $12.50 a month, I think you are just kidding yourself.

Best of luck to you and your career.

Just look for the "memberships & workshops" button on the home page

Has anyone ever attended their Songwriter's Symposium or Song Camps?

If so, what was the atmosphere like? Reading it online is all fine and good, but hearing from someone who has actually experienced it, would be so much better...

Haven't been to one but they are somewhat expensive to attend. Shamelessly Capitalistic might just be appropriate here. You will probably learn just as much and probably more here on these boards than a NSAI Songwriter's Camp.

I've been to many, probably 8 or 10 symposia and 2 camps, but I have not been to one in several years.

I think they are great. They are helpful on two levels and valuable on a 3rd level.

1-They are helpful in that the seminars are good. You will learn. The opportunities to pitch and get critiques are great. The opportunity to meet industry people is great.

2-They are helpful in that you will learn from your fellow attendees. I don't know about you, but I find being in the same place with 300 or so fellow travellers to be a great inspiration. You are together with people who have the same interests, the same dreams, and the same frustrations as you. You will make friends that you will cherish.

3-Last but not least, dang, those things are just plain FUN.

Kristi, do yourself a big favor and ignore this asinine comment.

Yeah, nothing in life is free I suppose...

Truman,

That's what I would hope they would be like. So people from all over the country, all ages, just fly in for two or more days, huh? Sounds like it would be quite inspiring!

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Truman,

Why is that an asinine comment? Sounds like you're slamming JPF.

Brian

There's a lot more information here, albeit some unfiltered, than could possibly be presented at any symposium, in any gymnasium, orally (or as a suppositorium) in a 5 day period...period. But for those who need "hands on" experiences, then workshops and seminars are the way to go. I'm sure NSAI's symposiums and camps are excellent (camps are like sympsiums that are intense...intents...in tents...get it?). I'm more of a "feet on" sort, myself.

Here's some links to previous discussions. LOL, one of them was started by me. The links are long so you will have to copy them and paste them into your web address space.

I think NSAI is great especially for the songwriter outside Nashville. I think Song U is great too. Also SGA though SGA is probably better for folks further along on the songwriting road. Till you are pretty much in the buisness, SGA may not provide much for you.

IMO, with all these groups, as with these boards, there comes a point where the major benefit is networking. It's like job promotions I guess. You start out not knowing anything, then you learn enough to do one level, then to progress more you have to go to another level. I'm not sure that's the best way to put it but I know exactly what I mean.


http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=196678&Sear
chpage=1&Main=23810&Words=nsai&topic=0&Search=true#Post196678


http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=199048&Sear
chpage=1&Main=24138&Words=nsai&topic=0&Search=true#Post199048



http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=465977&Sear
chpage=1&Main=58541&Words=nsai&topic=0&Search=true#Post465977


http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=481325&Sear
chpage=1&Main=60049&Words=nsai&topic=0&Search=true#Post481325

I am not sure there's any benefit to being involved with SGA. There was at one time. Not anymore. Too much corruption and scandals and sleaze have been reported.

The reason I joined SGA is they have pitch sessions with pub reps sometimes. They were once a month when I first went. I doubt these sessions are any benefit to anyone who is not at an advanced level, which naturally I think I am. (No pub rep has yet thought the same They also offer critiques through their forums but I haven't used them. I think SGA is more for the advanced songwriter and except for the occasional seminars and the pitch sessions, I would say they are for the pro.

Eb,

I disagree, but thanks for posting your thoughts.

Brian

N.S.A.I,

Yes a very good association, formed by many pro writers in the fifty's I believe.

They offer members free evaluation of complete songs, by people trained to critique, and these are all Published writers.

You would learn to accept most of what they say , but not everything , the difference between a critique from N.S.A.I. is it's a critique from a stranger.

Not a chum from a cosy circle of amateurs.

J.P.F. is a great way to start your song writing .

There will come a time when you have to move on, have you noticed that most of the prize winners in the J.P.F.
Song Contest do not post here on a regular basis.

Why should they , they climb the ladder and the opinions
of mostley amateurs, is not what they need .

TAXI is the real jump from song writer forums, once you get
accepted as a writer who has learned the art, Taxi can help you
get established.

Matt Stoneham


Shucks Brian, you mean you disagree with my assessment of me below, right? You agree with them pub reps, doncha?

Some are from hit writers also but I'm pretty sure the critiques are not always from published writers. Many of them are but I don't think they all are.

I am a member of NSAI, just joined to submit my song for the CMT contest. For the Pittsburgh chapter, you can attend the local workshops. The first 2 are free. If you are not a member of NSAI, then they ask for a contribution of $5 after that. They give a lot of handouts, so it is reasonable. They are the nicest group of people I know and are extremely supportive. I am glad I have met them, and wouldn't be where I am in my songwriting without them. I have gone to many seminars that I would not have found out without them. I am just exploring the website and will have my first critique soon. I'll let you know what I think as I journey down this road.

I am also a member of TAXI. I use that for critiques. I have as much positive as negative said in any song. I have yet to hit the mark and get forwarded. But, I have only been at this since November 2004. They say it takes 10 years to be a master.

Since I am writing primarily country. I would attend a NSAI event over a TAXI event. Think about it, LA or Nashville? Consider what type of music you are writing and you have to be where those writers are. I hope this helps in your decisionmaking. Networking is everything! As much as many hated the Idol songwriting contest. Networking is a reality of the business. Meet with people in your genre any and all opportunities that present themselves. And, I do believe that the critiquers(?) in NSAI are publishers, etc in the business. In taxi, I believe that you may or may not get that caliber in the critiques.

I hope I have helped.

Monica

Hi again,
All this information is very useful...and I appreciate all your perspectives!

eb - those links are informative as well...don't know why nothing came up when I searched...am I wrong in putting in a keyword? Oh well...I've read them all (except the first one, doesn't work)

In those links however, several people mention that NSAI is country-oriented, which of course, makes sense, being there in Nashville, but they don't say that on their website. In fact, they say that NSAI consists of a body of "songwriters from all genres of music". I wonder how diversified it is.

Monica - I wish there was a local workshop near me...I would have to go into the city (NY) to find mine, which is a trip in itself. But I just wanted to say, I would be interested in hearing about your journey down the road, so please let me know how it goes for you! I appreciate that! Thanks. 10 years to be a master, huh? Well, as long as it's fun and inspiring, time doesn't really matter I suppose.

Thanks for sharing! Oh, and to correct myself from earlier, something in life is free....this site!!

Kristi

TC,

Thanks for your info. I probably don't know enough about the organization to make such a sweeping judgement, so I retract my comment that I believe NSAI is a 'shamelessly capitalistic' organization. However, I've learned to not equate the term 'non-profit organization' with the phrase 'not interested in making money' as I've worked for and around non-profit organizations for some time. In fact, a good buddy of mine owns his own non-profit company and he told me 2007 was a very good year for him...so good that he had '403b' put on the personalized licence plates of his new BMI 700 series sports car. :>)

While I'm not suggesting this in any way of NSAI, it's no secret that 'non-profit' organizations are often structured that way to gain access to valuable tax shelters. I'm much more impressed with your comments on what they do and how they handle their profits, as well as respecting your comment that I need to learn more about them, than I am that they have been set up as a non-profit, which presumably by definition alone, would indicate an organization as purely altruistic in nature.

As I said in my post, I've never heard a great writer in this town say anything negative about NSAI, and they've all raved about how the organization helped them. I'm simply adding that it's an organization that seems to know how to make money, that's all. They're doing something right if their recent real estate aquisitions are any indication. Hey, more power to them. Shamelessly capitalistic? I think not...and I sincerely apologize for my remark. NSAI has probably done more than anyone when it comes to the pure issue of helping the songwriter become established and successful in Nashville, and that has no doubt contributed to any financial success they enjoy.

My comments were probably founded in my cynicism of song contests in general more than anything else, but I understand that the song contest is one of the ways that NSAI and many other organizations raise money. But I must say I was a bit concerened to learn that NSAI utilizes local writers and publishers to aid in judging their contest entries, and that these writers that rate songs are paid $1 (ONE dollar) per song do fill out song rating sheets. One dollar per song?! One of the writers told me she was given a free membership to the organization for her help. (I guess I'm not surprised since she had judged 75 songs...that afternoon!.) I wondered how much attention and care was being placed on accurately assessing each song when 75 songs were being judged in 'an afternoon'. Both people told me they were doing this to make a little extra money, and both stated (and this is them, not me) that they felt the contest was mostly about making money than anything else. It was shortly after hearing these remarks that I made my post about NSAI, no doubt fueling my comments.

My opinion is that all song contests are about making money, so no news there. But I must say that the buck-a-song to judge the contest entries thing was a bit of an eye opener. I couldn't help but wonder how many other people besides me who have considered entering this contest have had visions of a board of well established writers, publishers and PRO reps sitting around a big table with a huge pile of CDs, who listen to each song, maybe even more than once, discussing the pros and cons of each song before rating them with the utmost of care, rather than a board that farms the task of judging the creations of it's members and contest entrants out to local songsters for buck-a-tune. While I'm sure there's a bit more thoroughness at the end game stage of the contest, it just seemed to me at the time that this low budget screening methodology resembled the strategy of an organization that, shall we say, knows how to effectively manage it's resources and minimize it's overhead for maximum profit. Nothing wrong with that at all as long as the writers who enter are getting everything they expect in terms of the personal attention to their songs that they feel they deserve. If that's the case then those writers have been the ones to reap benefit from the profits NSAI and I have no reason to be concerned.

Sincerely,

BR

EB,

No.. I disagree that the SGA is of any value worth paying money to join. Too much bad karma for me.

Brian

Bill, you might be surprised to learn that the very largest song writing contest of all-time, more contestants by far than any other, makes no money at all and has no fee. It's the JPF contest

Wow, that's cool! I had no idea. See, being a relative newcomer I did not know about the JPF song contest. Now I can say "I believe all song contests (except for one) are about making money." ;>)

Seriously, I don't have a beef with the idea of contests, or if their sponsors make a little something in putting it on, but I think writers would benefit more for their time invested and money spent if they got something back with a modicum of substantive value (other than the highly coveted certificate of honorable mention of course) for their time and money...like even 2 sentences on what made or broke their song from a competitive standpoint; I'd think NSAI would want to provide that for their writers more than anyone. But maybe that's not realistic.

Lame question: How do I PM you? I've got to learn how to get around on this thing....is there a spell checker?

b

to PM;
click on the person's name (to the left of where I say to PM) It will open a drop down menu.

For the song contest
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=574324&page=1#Post574324

I don't think there is a spell checker but I am sure your browser has one. You might have to turn it on

Bill and Bill,

I never use spell chekcer. Why should I?

My wife suggested it...naturally I try to do everything she says. ;>)