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#564819 - 12/04/07 06:08 PM Tuesday, December 4th, 2007  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Hi Folks,

So I am sitting here trying to figure out how to pull off another JPF Music Awards. We're working in technical solutions.. but I need to find financial ones as well as manpower solutions. We expect over 500,000 songs to be submitted this time around (could be way more depending on how we do it) and we'll need twice as many people involved and we had over 8000 last time around. Just coordinating that mass of folks is a lot of work. We also need more sponsors and partners. I was contemplating contacting all the "genre" specific organizations (like the GMA.. or the CMA... or some of the many ethnic music orgs. etc.) and try to get some help from them. Most of them have their own "awards" so it's a matter of finding a way for them to see value in supporting ours at the same time they may be doing their own.

Anyone have any original ideas?

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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#564893 - 12/04/07 08:57 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2001
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Ask Pepsi to sponsor it. Isn't that your drink of choice, diet Pepsi? Then they could run a promo with the winners to be featured for downloads during the Superbowl 2009, like they did with iTunes a few years ago, and like what they're doing with Amazon music this coming Superbowl.

How cool would Pepsi look showcasing new music to a huge audience? Or any Superbowl sponsor for that matter.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#564911 - 12/04/07 09:39 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Quote
We expect over 500,000 songs to be submitted this time around


500,000!!! That seems like a logistical nightmare. I think you should consider of fee of $1 to $5 for a song (or per artist) to be considered (Edit: That would knock that unmanageable number way down). I guess you are against charging, but I can't see how dealing with 500,000 songs is even possible.

Kevin

Last edited by Kevin Emmrich; 12/04/07 09:47 PM.

"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#564931 - 12/04/07 10:35 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: May 2003
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Herbie Gaines Offline
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Herbie Gaines  Offline
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$2 a song would not dissuade anyone, but like a million bucks would go in the JPF trust fund...why not?


Herbie
JPF Chicago Chapter Coordinator
http://www.herbietunes.com

#564938 - 12/04/07 10:54 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Herbie Gaines]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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I'd do it.{contribute a buck per song}

Last edited by Bob Cushing; 12/04/07 10:55 PM.

bc
#565003 - 12/05/07 08:38 AM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Bob Cushing]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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I hate PEPSI! Ack! Diet Coke all the way. = )

As for charging, obviously if we could charge any fee (the amount is almost irrelevent) we'd do if it would mean we'd get the same entries. But what I find with most "contests" is that it's simply a money making scheme from the start. You charge a fee, get entries, give part of the money back to a few winners and keep the rest. It has very little to do with finding the best music. That's the opposite of our goal. I ONLY do this to find and recognize outstanding music. That difference in end goals is why I haven't previously charged.

If we DID charge, at least half of last year's winners would not have entered. It wasn't because they wouldn't have found value in what we do.. it's that most professional level artists who AREN'T regulars in the JPF world (as all of you above already are) simply don't enter "contests" for their music. They only enter because of how we present it.. that we are simply interested in finding and recognizing amazing music each time we do it. That mix of well known and pro level artists means when we nominate someone for an award, they legitimately are competing against the best in their field. If you remove a large portion of the pro level participants, then it's just another amateur contest. That's are great to build ego and some bragging rights, but I don't think they truly find the best music in a given time period. I think our awards DO find, in most categories, some of the best music out there. And because so much of it is made by unknown indie artists, it elevates their work among the professionals and well known artists/writers they are included with. And it adds some artistic focused support to those famous artists to say they stacked up, without the marketing budgets or label manipulation, with the best music being made at all levels.

Now, if we could keep all those folks entering AND charge a small fee, I'd be all for it. But research has told me that it wouldn't happen. If we lost half or more of our nominees from last year, I'd have to ask myself why exactly did I spent 18 months of my life working on the program in the first place.

The numbers mean a lot. It's not as simple as quantity over quality. It's that it takes quantity to really get that type fo quality in the end. And even with the sheer mass of numbers last time around (we had 350,000 songs last time to choose from) we still had a few categories which lacked a bit in the end. Of course we had some brilliant results in some categories way back when we did the first awards. (The Folk category that year still has some of my all time favorite songs from it). But as we expand genres (from 17 that first year to 81 last time) we need depth in the smaller genres to recognize them. That takes a mass of entries to achieve.

I have thought about ways to charge many times. If we simply had charged 10 dollars an entry (i.e. for any number of songs or CD's) we'd have brought in over a quater million dollars. This year it might be 400,000+. But the Pro's are the first to pass up on a fee based awards system. After all, who wants to pay money to be recognized right? (That's a tough concept for me to accept myself...). And only those who truly understand the credibility and work we put into it (like some of you above already do) could reconcile that and still enter.

That's the crux of the problem.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

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#565042 - 12/05/07 01:09 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Nashville Tennessee
So basically, it's this. Hold a contest that will have a half a million contestants. Do not charge a fee.

Think this is hard, imagine universal health care without raising taxes.

I've thought about this a lot, and haven't even a clue what to tell you. An army of clones? Win the lottery?

Sponsors are the obvious answer, but what can you offer them? Besides, sponsors, even great ones, open all sorts of avenue for accusations from folks with an axe to grind against JPF (We haven't heard from him for a while, though LOL.)

So, when in doubt, I defer to my default position. What would I do? I'd either charge a fee, get a sponsor, or stop doing it.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#565043 - 12/05/07 01:24 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Park City, UT, USA
As I said, get Coke to sponsor it. You drink Diet Coke in large quantities. (I knew that, I was attempting to see what your reaction was).

Get Coke in on Pepsi's game at the Superbowl for 2009. How cool would they be if they truly championed non-signed/non-paid JPF winners? Something to think about. I think I would look outside the music industry for sponsors on something of this magnitude. I bet cell phone companies might like it too, seeing as how they're all looking to tout their media prowess.

I do think that's the key though, look outside the industry.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#565123 - 12/05/07 06:57 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Herbie Gaines Offline
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Chicago,IL, USA
ONE DOLLAR per song is NOT going to change anyones view of the experience Brian. Everyone would understand. Alot of contests are like $25 per song...A dollar...cmon


Herbie
JPF Chicago Chapter Coordinator
http://www.herbietunes.com

#565125 - 12/05/07 07:06 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Herbie Gaines]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
Herbie,

1 dollar a song would scare off the same number of people as 20 dollars a song. It isn't the money.. it's the effort and it's the change in what it is. It goes from being an awards where great music is recognized to a contest where there's an entry fee.

It's a moot point in the end however. CD Baby will only participate if it's free. Though after the last go round and the immense cost for them to pack and send all those CD's, perhaps they've had a change of heart. I offered to split any fee down the middle with them last time, but they passed. I still think we'd lose a lot of veteran writers and artists no matter what.

Do the Grammy's charge a fee to submit music for consideration?

Brian



Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#565154 - 12/05/07 08:34 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 183
Ethan Offline
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Ethan  Offline
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Washington State, USA
Well the Grammy's do have the whole membership cost thing...I imagine those membership $$ plus television contracts/sponsorships help out. smile

#565158 - 12/05/07 08:44 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Ethan]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
Yeah.. but non Grammy members can and do get nominated and win Grammy's all the time. They simply have to be "sponsored" by someone who is a paid member. Since every label has at least 1 paid member, it's no big deal for them to put up their own artists. But believe me, few of the big name Grammy winners write a check for their own membership each year.

Funding really wasn't the issue in my point, however. They get a tremendous amount of money from all sorts of places to do their awards. (Heck, the ticket prices for the show they charge could fund our awards for a century I bet). I am just observing that they aren't requiring Muddy Waters to pay an entry fee to get his next latest blues album nominated.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#565244 - 12/06/07 01:35 AM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Jul 2005
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Scott Campbell Offline
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Lakeland, FL, USA
Sounds like you don't need money so much as manpower.

So maybe tell entrants they will not be charged a fee but will be asked to vote in one category?

I'm trying to remember how you handled the lyric awards. Were entrants asked to vote or required to vote (on the first round)? What kind of response did you get?

Scott

#565345 - 12/06/07 01:21 PM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Scott Campbell]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,227
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
I am on the bottom of the Totum Pole in this debate but Sponsors sounds best to me. They will use the cost as a Tax Write off so you are probably in a pretty good position to get sponsors.


Ray E. Strode
#565532 - 12/07/07 02:23 AM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Jun 2005
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RE_Goldenbird Offline
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RE_Goldenbird  Offline
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Brattleboro, VT, US
Well it wouldn’t help you this year but have you looked into grants? Coming from the social services side of things; I know there are grants out there for just about everything. They’re not easy to get, it’s a long & tedious process, but there are a lot of grants out there for the arts. Also, have you contacted the Corporation for Public Broadcasting? Seems like this should be right up their alley, even if you just worked with one local affiliate, it would be great if they could broadcast the awards (and maybe point you in the direction of some money).

-Rick

Last edited by RE_Goldenbird; 12/07/07 02:24 AM.
#565631 - 12/07/07 09:54 AM Re: Tuesday, December 3rd, 2007 [Re: RE_Goldenbird]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Rick,

We generally hit a brick wall because we're not a non profit, even though we're completely free. I've invested 10 years of my life building this (and our reputation) from scratch, so I don't want to turn it over to a board and relinquish all actual ownership. My hope is to pass this on to family after I am gone and if it's non profit even if I was in charge of it, when I go, it's gone.

It's kind of sad because I know a lot of people who get grants for things that have no impact on the community at large like our awards do for those involved. That broad positive affect is fairly unique.. but grants and endowments and arts councils care far more about politics and red tape than doing actual good for the larger community. Why give a big wad of cash to 1 single artist for their own project over something that can give a boost to thousands of artists in a given year.

I wonder if folks realize how much of a ripple affect that really has on the world when thousands of artists/creator get a positive lift and some well deserved unbiased external validation.

Brian

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]

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