JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Has anyone ever thought about just giving up?

Hi Gang

I've been working with someone in regards to getting my ideas out there only to realize I am not that good at this. It seems my ideas don't inspire my stories don't make sense. I thought I was improving over time now it seems I am just kinda doing the same old stuff over an over no sense of writing really good songs. Is the bar really that high or am I just way off? I feel so discouraged right now I don't really want to keep trying. I know this is a hard business and I don't take that lightly I just thought I had some talent now I feel like why am I wasting my time. Anbody else out there ever feel this way? I'd be curious to hear how you got through it thanks!
Derek

Every day Derek,

You probably know my story, but I walked away ten years ago, because this "business' could no longr provide me with an income.

Prior to that, I worked for ten years, making good money ( actually calculated it as 2 - 3 times the average weekly wage ) but at the same time wanted to " make it" .

If I had the same drive and experience that I do now, and didn't concentrate on some reckless notion of making it, and I actually concentrated on the product and delivery, who knows ?

After my son was born, and subsequently my daughter, I was in a studio one night, and my wife came to pick me up. We were running behind, so she placed him on a couch in the control room.

He was only about a year old, wasn't causing any problem, and was being fusssed over. This was past midnight, and I just looked at him and said " that's enough ".

I walked away, and only in the last year have I been able to go back to music, having concentrated on the things which are important in life.

Music is a luxury, a self indulgent luxuy, which, if it gets out of hand can wreck your life. Don't let it wreck your life, try every day to learn just one thing, and take it from there.

I guess I'm just saying do it because you love it, and if you don't love it, then move on to something else, cos they're ain't no money in it mate.

cheers, niteshift

Derek

"Has anyone though about just giving up"?

Are you kidding? I'm eyeing out a nice sturdy beam on my ceiling right now...
Oh you meant giving up on music?
Well may as well be life, because my whole life has been so dedicated, driven & directed by my music.
One of my best friends was over tonight 2 of them actaully one an hour before the other. The second friend was asking me how I'm feelling and such he (Chris) joined my band when I was 12 years old.

I told him Chris "we were so serious about our goals and music since we were 9 years old. And i was the most insane of all with dedication and determination.
Derek- we were playing out before we were teenagers and were turning to it proffesionally by age 14. We were so dedicated without any influnence or push from adults.

So I looked at my friend and said I wonder what kind of damage it's caused me mentally to be trying to do something for so long that is sooo hard.
We both looked at each other and smiled and I said
"yeah It causes Meneire's Disease" lol... who's knows if my terrible balance disorder isn't a result of this damn life of music

The first friend who came over I hadn't seen in a year or so. We talked about all the bad breaks we had in 2005 musically. And he said I can't believe with the level of most of the stuff I see and hear out there we couldn't get anywhere...

And Derek I'm a humbled out dude believe me.. I know what GREAT is and I'm not it.
But one thing is certain I'm pretty good at what I do and I know I can walk into a room full of bands and artists these days who are HUGE successful and RICH and make them feel guilty.

So as I sit here dizzy,depressed and selling my equipment piece by piece, the equipment I use to put the food on my table, beaten broken and closing in on my THIRD decade as a professional.. Musically I have been through more BS and disappointments in ONE of those decades than half the people here combined.
And If your thinking bout debating me (Dont) You lose!
And still I wont give up! There gonna have to carry me out in a box Jack!

Derek - What your feeling is my area of expertise, disgust depression letdowns failures. Questioning everything!

On the next thread below 'I'm gonna help you!

Hey Sub,

Like this part...

"I can walk into a room full of bands and artists these days who are HUGE successful and RICH and make them feel guilty."

That's a player through and through. Don't care what you have, but I thrash you musically.

I would take one players' perception of myself, someone who I respect, over so called public adualtion any day. There are many fine musicians, who are the best of their craft, totally unknown to the public. It is their opinion I respect, and if I'm chasing anything, it would make me happy if someone whom I respeced, valued my product.

cheers, niteshift

Okay Derek

It's easy baby... stop look listen and evaluate yourself and what you want.
What do want out of your music?
And you have to offend yourself. You started doing a pretty good job of that on this opening thread But you let the self pity take over and righfully so bro.. I do that all the time to.

I have been listening to your work and have worked a little with you and know what your trouble is.
Your trying to do TOO MUCH and your adding extra pressure on yourself.

I don't want to hurt you or kick you when your down but you have to get negative before you can get positive. I love all the people here and everywhere who's gonna come on and start with all that positive s...t And it's all good bro, but it ain't gonna do the trick. "Derek we all feel like giving up but find a way to keep going and your love for music and life will carry you through etc.. blah blah blah.

You need to focus on one thing first then get a positve result back from that.

You write some good lyrics, stop singing your songs your vocal is hurting you.
You write some real nice chord changes, but your timing is all over the place
You record your own music but have not developed your ears enough

You need to have something you created or co-created played back to you sounding and coming off really cool and good. This will put you on the upswing and headed in the right direction. Stop trying to do it all if you are serious about your music.

The last mp3 you posted up is perfect example of ewhat I'm talking about.

Now while your focusiing on the things you do well have someone else do ALL the other things. Then in the meantime you start practicing on the things you need to get stronger at and work on.

Isn't being a really good lyricist GREAT enough! Some are really good singers and can't really write songs or good players, or writers who can't play.
I have heard it all....

Simple - take your BEST SONG and have it demoed professionally I'm not telling you this because I want to DO THE DEMO as a matter of fact i'm refusing to do it right here and now... and I'm broke beyond belief.

Then get that demo back and play that for your family friends and post it here
and where ever. And tell them Hey Check Out this Song I Wrote

Watch how this changes your whole outlook and your whole life, if music is that important to you it will.. I promise.

PS - Honestly you know another reason why I don't pack it in, THIS PLACE The JPF

Hi Niteshift

Yes I can see your point. I guess I don't take critisism as well as I think I do. Here at JPF the feeling is mostly positive. Outside of here in the bigtime my work can't hold a candle lyircaly musicaly etc etc.

I think part of it is I want something more I want my music out there. I don't really care about money that's secondary never started down this path for money. I just want my songs heard I want people to be moved and touched by it (also wouldn't mind doing some of the music) That said I have years of training to do to get to the point where my music is anything decent. I think your reply to my song earlier hit the nail on the head I need to simplify and not try to do so much of the arranging.

I do love music and I want to continue to enjoy it I guess seeing an industry professionals opinion of my lyrics really gave me a major setback and made me kinda question things. I will not give up that easily but I do have to say this is a lot harder than I thought it was. I won't give up though and thanks again for the encouragement!
Sincere Blessing
Derek

Sounds like you have made an important step. First a question, It says that you registered on 8/14/07 and you have 1493 posts! That's just over 20 posts per day -- is that right?

Sounds like to me you have banged your head against the wall continuously for two months and you are now stepping back to see what it all means -- that is what I think the important step is.

"...only to realize I am not that good at this." Not good at what? Writing, playing, singing, recording, mixing, producing, promoting yourself, pitching your songs, publishing your music, managing the business end, performing in public, etc., etc., ....? I think Sub hits the nail on the head. Decide what your best song is (or 2 songs) and make that demo (I think you have a poll somewhere). See where it goes. And maybe slow down for a month (lol).

As for myself, I only have been writing lyrics and "singing" since January '07. I have no real inherent musical talent and have no dreams of making it (OK, I do dream that a song of mine will be heard and picked up -- but I am doing nothing to make that happen). And I still spend "too much time" on music stuff.

It seems like you get lots of compliments on your lyrics and I want to wish you all the best with your stuff.

Kevin

Sub don't do it man we all still need you! Oh you were joking lol.

I can see where you are coming from you've been through the wringer mentally physicaly and spirutally and somehow are still standing. I am very saddened to hear you are having to sell of equipment I wish there was something I could do to help. I know you aren't seeking pitty and I hope it doesn't sound like that's how I'm taking things.

I truly admire your spirit Mike you truly are a never say die type of fellow and that is very encouraging. I also do get what you are saying. I think you are very right in saying I should have my songs demoed. I really do have a long ways to go as a musician and I do know that. One part of the reason I try to do my own is because I don't have money for demoes and I still want to get my ideas down. However that said none of what I post is good enough to send in and knowing that makes me more aware than ever that I do need outside help.

Do you think my lyric writing has potential? I know not everything I write is a hit I most definitely am aware my writing needs to improve but is there at least some hope if I take writing workshops and keep improving my craft? I guess I need to know if I will ever be able to hear something I write on the radio if not I don't think it's worth all the effort I am putting forth. Maybe that's hoping for too much maybe my goals should be smaller. But I've always heard in this business you have to dream big.

At any rate thanks for the encouragement Mike I really do appreaciate it. One of my best songs I've written IMO is over on lyric board 3 if you could give me some feedback on it and see if it is good or if I'm fooling myself again I'd really appreciate it thanks it's called "Savannah Slowly Slips Away"
Thanks again Mike and I pray the good lord blesses you even in the middle of these hard circumstances!
Sincere Blessings Love you Man!
Derek

Seems to me that the only way to ever get anywhere in this world is to disagree with the apparency of the physical universe and stay true to what is in your heart and mind. THAT is where the real truth lies.

Blessings,
Heidi

Hi Kevin

Your points are well taken. Yes it's true I think I've reached this level quicker than most anyone funny thing is I am only now starting to learn anything.

I see what you mean I really am trying to hard to do it all. Yes Mike is very observant he really is able to get to the heart of the matter quite quickly.

My ultimate goal is pretty much the same as yours it's to have one of my songs picked up and played on the radio. That said any steps for me in that direction are going to involve getting demoes made. I don't really have the money for it but maybe there is someway to work it out. I wish I had more I can pour into this but I am becoming more and more aware that my writing is average or par. I know I get a lot of compliments but I also am aware that those here at JPF are not the music industry an I am becoming aware that getting into the music industry is a tough nut to crack (it's made all the more obvious by People like Mike not making the big time). It seems a very fickle business and I honestly think a lot of the songs I write are as good if not better than some of the stuff being written commerecially. That said they apperently need to be way beyond that to even get past the first step.

I know it's not going to be easy but I am not giving up without a fight. I'll definitly start trying to get demoes going I don't know where I'll find the resources but maybe there is a way somehow.

Thanks Kevin for the time an encouragement I'll definitely consider slowing down.
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hey Derek,

Yep, it's hard work, and it'd BLOODY hard work.

I gave you a hard crit on the mp3 because I thought that song had something to offer. If it had no merit, I wouldn't have bothered. Everyone has something to say, and let their voice be known, but first you gotta figure out WHAT you want to say, and then do it in a fashion which people can understand.

I don't know if composition is for you, or mabe you are more lyrically based, just define your strenghts, and more importantly, define your weaknessness. It's your weakness's which will let you down, not your strenghts.

And no excuses, just put the song together and take it from there. There's no agenga, only your own.

cheers, niteshift

Hi Hiedi

You do have a point there. I agree in a lot of ways I also feel though that to some extent I can't reach my goals without working in the mold of the industry. i don't want to totally change my ideas but I do want to get better I know I am capable I think sometimes I just try hard to write lots of songs instead of focusing on writing just one good one.

Thanks for the encouragement and I won't give up but boy sometimes those people in the music bizz really get you thinking your a hack lol
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Niteshift

I think you make a great point. My lyrics have some potential and my musical ideas do as well wrapping it all into a nicely produced package is not my strong point. And it's not just the mixing or timing it's everything If I had a studio professional to push on me to do things right now how I felt like doing them I think I might get somewhere however that said I don't have the money to make that happen. I think the best idea might be just sitting and playing and singing the song till it sounds right then recording it that way no bells no whistles just me and the guitar if i can do that and do it well I might just be able to learn the rest someday.

Thanks again for the encouragement!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Again Derek

I do think your lyrics are good and you have potential in a few areas as well.

Demos are so cheap now that it is literally destroying me. Man I wish it was like this when I was making demos. How much is your music worth? I have sunk it all into mine. Every penny!
So may people complain about where there music is at but have no one pointing out to them how much they are not investing in it. Dude one hour with me and you'll see. Hey Time - Money - Sacrifice it all goes hand in hand.

Now forget about 20 different things make one song good from the first lyric to the finished master CD.. This will boost your confidence, you have no real confidence
happening you need something to be proud of and show off, like the baby

Confidence - Like the way girls would look at me or react to me ONLY when I had a girlfriend already. Everytime I was alone after a break up I could not get the time of day... Not myself, no swagger and positive energy..It can be sensed! One thing will spark another.

Read- my thread below about "The Art OF Writing Vague" film placement

Forget about Number One Hits... Do you hear what crap they are these days?

Start thinking about alternative goals. We all want to hear our song on the radio.
That's the dream, but even if your GREAT that still may never happen.

Do your best thing FIRST I wrote a whole thread about this a ways back butmost folks care more about who wins TV show contests and how Songramp is merging with Block Buster lol.. whatever.

What's that got to do with you becoming a lethal and dangerous mo fo and killer at what you do. Nothing!

Go over to the thread I mentioned & posted and see how I got four simple lines into a movie. You can do this too....

Hey Mike

All excellent points I do agree it takes money, time, blood, sweat and tears to make it and I need to be willing to invest if I ever expect to make it happen thansk for the encouragement and you thread on movie writing was awesome!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Derek, interesting thread ya got here. Think you got some great helpful comments, read them all.
My only input would be if you gave up, how would you feel? If empty comes to mind first, then you have the bug.
I'd suggest when the glooms strike, (as i call them) ...step back. Take some time away, look at what you have done with fresh eyes. Be honest with yourself in all ways, when you look at or listen to your own work.

I'm a self proclaimed hacker (lol), not expecting anything to happen, but i have the bug too. Funny thing is, sometimes when you hit the mark unknowingly, it's the best payback you can ever ask for. It's about the fun aspect, sometimes having fun in writing or playing...leads to good things.

take care / tom

Keep going Derek,

I may blast you, but only for good reason.

Listen and learn ( as I keep trying to say to myself )

cheers, niteshift

Hi Tom

you said a lot with very little words by definition you should be an excellent writer lol. Thanks for the encouragement I really aprecciate it. I've gotten some great advice from all involved. Yours Tom was pricelss if you dog give up how will you feel? That's the best advice I think I could get. Thanks for the encouragement and I'll stick with it if only for fun!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Niteshift

Blast away I appreaciate it! Without someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong I don't know how I'll ever get better thanks!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

I think about quitting lyric writing sometimes.

I rarely "hear" a tune for a lyric these days and that adds up to frustraion. Finding someone local who can write tunes for my lyrics has been discouraging.

The best Internet colab I've had has been with Heather Cowles, who is a member here. She's done several tunes and guitar/vocal demos for me but she isn't right for all of mine since I write from a male perspective most of the time.

I'm lucky because I also write articles, fiction, and poetry. When the lyric muse is hiding out someplace the articles are generally working OK.

I find taking a few days off helps get things back into perspective. Road trips are also good and often generate new ideas.

In my experience, the flip side of thinking about quitting is worrying about being "involuntarily retired" by lyrics that stop showing up at all.

Hi Lee

Now there is a thought to ponder. I have had a few small blocks but generally I get past them pretty easy. I guess I should be thankfull I can write even if it's not really going anywhere as of yet. Thanks for the encouraging words they help a lot! I do compose some of my own stuff but I am lightyears away from good at it. I think we need to accept what we're good at and not worry too much about the rest.
Sincere Blessings
Derek

All the time.

But I just bought a house in Nashville. Not gonna move there yet. Might be a couple years. But I plan to spend a lot of time there. Financially it is gonna be very tight for a couple years. Squeaky tight.

I am joining NSAI, I have just signed up for a course in songwriting at Song-U. Gonna give it a try, see if it makes a difference.

I do try to do to much tho.
I write lyrics. I do the music, I sing, I take guitar lessons( and I still suck at the guitar) I record(I have a small studio and am recording a local metal band right now).
I started 5 years ago. I was 58 years old. This old brain and these old hands are really struggling.
But I ain't gonna quit. I want to do this and will keep working at it till I am dead.

Well,
The truth is not everyone is cut out to be a songwriter. Or A doctor, or mechanic, or actor, pilot, etc, etc, etc. Even if you are cut out to be a songeriter, getting a song cut and released is a long shot at best. You can only keep at it until you decide if it is for you or not.

Hey Derek,

I've felt like I've been wasting my time many times. I've been kickin' around in music biz for past 22 years and there have been periods where I've pulled back. At those times, I've always had my "reasons" (going to school, focusing on the kids)but the bottom line was that I was tired of trying so hard and gaining so little.

But I always came back to doing what I love. The "time off" was used to evaluate my goals: exactly what was I trying to accomplish? Sell a million cds, write hit songs, what? With age comes wisdom (or so they say) and I've clarified my goals and that has helped a whole lot.

Am I at the top of my game? No. There are people who do certain things much better than I. What I've learned is to let them do those thing for me and with me, while I focus on my strengths.

I still work at improving my songwriting and that sometimes can be a painful, trying process. But I no longer am discouraged. I reframe those situations and see them for the valuable learning experiences they are. I remember sitting through Barbara Cloyd's song critique session at Pineyfest last summer. As she reviewed my song, she sort of shrugged and said, "You sound pretty, but the song doesn't go anywhere." Brutal. But I learned.

Oh, you stated that "I just thought I had some talent..." Think it's important to realize that "success" in the music business sometimes has absolutely nothing to do with talent. The most talented are never heard of, I think.

How do you define success for yourself?

Hugs, Kim-Char

I did 7 years ago,working full time to keep a roof over my head, and playing out and writing, I just felt 2 wiped out.I lost all my passion for singing and writing and thought i would never get it back.I started up again recently with the encouragement of a dear friend who I use 2 record with.Thank god for good friends.I should have never stopped.My advice to anyone in this struggle,If you've had good feedback for your music over the years and feel that you are good at what you do, then dont give up,you may regret it later.
But if every one is looking at u with 2 heads,and u have never heard any positive feed back from any of your songs ever,ever ever,then it is time for a different dream.

all the best,
Anne.

Mi amigo, no one can force you to believe that you're not writing good songs, it's only your own viewpoint.

I backed off and just chilled out when I came to that point, and simply waited it out.....I think that your abilities don't depart from you, but I do think that sometimes your abilities might just need a rest once in a while....

Hi Derek,

Oh yeah. I think ALL of us... and I suspect even some IN the "big time"... think about throwing in the towel. Some more than others. But I think that's NORMAL.

Let me see if I can help at all here.
YES, YOU CAN WRITE.
I've liked the songs and lyrics of yours that I've heard. I enjoy your writing. I think from a writing/lyric standpoint you have some developing talent. I can edit your English tougher when I come into your threads if you want it. Just remember, if I don't LIKE it to start with, I won't *bother* to be harsh with it and pick it apart. (kinda like Niteshift!) I also won't do that if I don't think the person will either a) listen to what I'm saying, as an editor or b) WANT to be reviewed that way because they're too delicate in the ego department. But if ya want it--you got it. Just bring Band-Aids. LOL!

OK, I know you have a baby from your Avatar (we're all assuming that's you & your baby anyway, haha!), but I don't know anything else about your family situation and/or your "day job." But I have strong feelings on family coming FIRST and even that it's the fella's God-given role to be the main provider for the family whenever that's reasonably possible. (yes that is old-fashioned, smack me, but I believe families are HAPPIER when they can live this way) If you follow with that, that gives ANY guy with a family in this sort of business just a load of extra feelings and responsibilities to pile on. Which makes being an artistic soul just that much harder. (IMO) But it's still not impossible. I have watched MANY men, good providers, work at their artistic craft bit by bit until finally they had 'made it' sufficiently to "quit the day job" and supported their family all the way through the process. So yes: it can be done.

Gonna give this to you straight as I see the world. Your views, many views of others here may vary and that's OK. But-- are you a praying sort of man? From other stuff I've read from you, I get that impression. Take this thing to your knees. I FIRMLY believe that as you ask God what HE wants you to do with your life, that He WILL answer you. Might not be what you want to hear--but then again it might. GOD can and will help you figure out the place and role music should have in your life, at this TIME in your life (esp. while your family is young). And as you listen to the good, warm feelings, positive energies, or "inspiration" as I call it that come as a result of sincere prayer (and listening for answers!) I strongly feel that you can, should, and *will* receive some direction from above for how best to conduct your life. Pray with real intent, *believing* that He will hear and answer you.

That counsel.... is totally up to you to do or not... and I hope I'm not coming on too strong with that. But this is me, and this is what I do when these negative cruddy I-want-to-quit feelings come over me. I go back to giving up what "I" want and try to find out what it is GOD wants... and I am blessed with help, whenever I follow and act on those "promptings" or hunches or inspirations. All the time. When I ignore them and try to go off my own limited wisdom... no blessings. hehe

Now: whether or not you can make a paying career off music and be able to support your family with it--that's an unknown NO MATTER WHAT your talent and determination level is. You can see that easy from seeing some of the HUGELY talented folks who have come in here and said "me too." Right? Right.

So as I've said before in posts, you'll be more at peace, more happy with your choices, when you TAKE CONTROL of the things YOU have power over, and LET GO of the things that you don't. (Such as artists choosing your song(s)... getting radio play... etc.)

What you CAN do is figure out and save up and find reasonable ways to create and market the BEST productions of your songs that you can get your hands on. You CAN control that. You can control where, when, who, what, and how you pitch your music. Then you have to let go of the rest (out of your control) and let the chips fall from there. Make sense?

That all said: moving on to DEMOS. Yes, money is tight!!! YES, it is HARD (maybe impossible) to take money out of the family budget to do it. Scrimp, save, put quarters and loose change in a sock. Maybe it will take a few years. But it can be saved up for and done without hurting your family if you're patient.

Meanwhile--hone and craft and refine your songs so you can choose WELL which one(s) to demo when the time comes. Many, many people here have said they wasted their demo money doing a song that was NOT READY to be demo'ed... structure was poor, melody wasn't ready, etc. etc.

THEN!! When you have a song ready... and a little cash... here are some affordable demo options:
1) SubStudio he's not kiddin' when he's telling ya he works for 'nothin' ... talk to him 'bout prices
2) Gator House in Nashville. I have only heard good things about them. They run somewhere around $350/song. I have a friend who saves up and gets ONE song done per year at Gator House with very good results. (I'll get you her Soundclick if you want it, she's not on JPF)
3) LEAST EXPENSIVE: PINEYFEST DEMO DERBY!! They're talking about doing this every year. Talk to Mike Dunbar and Bobbie Gallup. Pineyfest is an annual JPF music festival run by Bobbie every year in Nashville, in the summer. (might mean a trip to Nashville, but still, keep listening--) This year's price for a STUDIO-QUALITY DEMO with pro musicians ran $100 per song. To add a vocalist it was about $40, more depending on who you hired. Now THAT is an affordable (even unheard-of anywhere else) demo price. If you save all your loose change until next July, it's likely you can come up with $100 by then... maybe... right?

There are a few other houses that run demos in about the $3-500 price range. This is much better than $2-3K per song--right? yeah. So look for them.

Meanwhile--do the best you can with your strengths, and look for collaborators and partners for the weaker areas, to make your worktapes sound as good as possible. All you need, to submit a tape to be demo'ed, is a guitar/vocal where the singer is reasonably on key with the melody. Piano/vocal works too. What they need to hear is the MELODY, the LYRICS fitting with the melody, and the CHORDS. Sometimes they'll even figure out the chords for you. In your case, I wouldn't, because you DO have good feel for chords and progressions and interesting sounds.

You can get there. You can.
I have to laugh looking at your post count because I did about the same thing. LOL. I came on in June/July 06 and was up to 1400 by fall. So just keep talking!!

Linda

PS One other thing I've learned--I mean REALLY learned--since coming to JPF is that music IS a collaborative effort.
"We're all in this together" is more than just a cute motto--it's the TRUTH. Nobody makes it alone in this business.
Music is ALL about working TOGETHER to make things happen.
Music is all about COMMUNITY.
Forget going it alone. Forget doing it all, all by yourself.
Even Sub (Mike) who CAN do it all, all by himself period because he's just that good--even he doesn't do everything himself. He works with other people, he pulls in musicians and vocalists.

Welcome to the club.
And yes... define or re-define how you spell success.
What does that word mean to you, anyway?

To me it means raising a happy, well-balanced family; keeping my marriage strong so when the kids are gone we'll still know each other and be in love with each other forever; keeping my life and my heart right with God.

What else actually matters more than that?

Linda

The main thing is: Decide if it's a business thing, or a hobby thing you have been, or now want to pursue.

If there were any pleasures during any process of "doing your talent", what waste was that? We can't predict end results, only work towards them.

Bowlers bowl. Golfers golf. Songwriters also complain! Get used to it! It comes with the activity, it seems.

John

Derek,
I've been at this a long time too. I think everyone who has been at it a while feels what you do now. Sub, Kim-Char, Niteshift, Me, we been at this a while bro. Sub gave you fantastic advice about getting something pro-demo'd. It'll change your music life. Find yourself a measuring stick. By that I mean where were you 6 months ago? Where are you now? Where will you be in 6 months? Measure yourself relative to your personal goals. Do atleast 2 positive things everyday towards your goal, everyday. In 6 months there will be measurable progress, not today or next week, but in 6 months you'll say damn I'm doing it...you have a ton of desire, a strong work ethic, a bunch of friends...save your dough, write something everyone thinks is headed in the right direction, know what you plan to do with the song once you get it demo'd,who would you pitch it to, or where would you use it? Get it demo'd by a pro,
then work both sides, the marketing , pitching of that pro piece you are the writer of, and working on the next one making sure, it's good, everybody in your network thinks it's good, save your dough, get it pro demo'd,now you got two. 2 positive things aday will make a difference, and every 6 months or so you'll be able to see tangible evidence of that improvement. I bet in 6 months you have 2 pro demos that you are the writer on. Demos you'll pitch with high hopes to every appropriate pitch you can find. And yes, the bar is high, that's why you need a pro demo so what you invisioned realizes it's full potential. There have been people walk away from it and not look back, I'm not one of them, in fact I can't imagine not getting that rush of creating something that sounds great to me, and could sound great to enough people to...well the sky is actually the limit...
there's alot of wisdom here pattin' you on the back...mark these dates down in your calender somewhere and check it in 6 months, you'll be encouraged if you continue with your same enthusiasm just a little more focused...all the best...Moker

Great advice Moker

Derek - Money was an issue right? First seek out Heather hiring her for a song is like a Scratching off a winning lottery ticket

You pay so little for the ticket (cost of one night at the movies) and it pays off nicely, except with her it's always a winner.

Hi Derek





I think it's good that you are asking these questions.....

My retorical question to the quotes above is WHY ????

I'm not suggesting, that you do this......, but you can BUY radio time...
really, you can buy television 30 second spots.....
you can probably put a song on an internet radio site for free......


I think you have to write and play music because you love it... even if for just yourself...and as you get better others will want to hear you....nothing gets better without time and effort though.....the rest is a lottery and some will win.

Figure out what you love, then it will be clear what to put first.

wishing you the best
jm

Your passion will determine if you pursue this.
Your talent will determine if you get noticed.
The balance in your bank account doesn't care about passion or talent.

If you can meet your bills and still have enough for thrills (songwriting and demos) then by all means follow the dream!

I have to tell you Derek...part of this answer is determined by how thick your skin is...when you work SO hard on your music and you go out and play it...and no one cares...(this happens alot, even to REALLY talented people), or maybe 2 people like it out of twenty, everyone else keeps talking....when you're done, are you gonna feel like "jeez what did I do this for?" Don't forget, there's still people out there that don't like the BEATLES. Out of a random crowd, you might get only a few that get what you do. SO, do you call that success???? I dunno, I used to find it really frustrating...now, not so much, because I stopped taking it so personal. What's YOUR temperment?

I've quit several times. Then I'd be drawn back and have to buy equipment all over again. Now I know better than to "give it up".

Being a musician doesn't mean getting paid. It doesn't mean inspiring anyone. It just means you can't help but do it. You're free to put it aside for a while, or for good. But if you love it, you'll come back to it naturally. Maybe you need a break. Good luck!

Ahhhhh Derek, you fine young man,


Keep this in mind:

• 
  
  The Beatles were turned down by 62 record companies before George Martin took a chance on them.

• 
  Elvis was told "go back to driving a truck"

• 
  Garth Brooks left Nashville after 12 hours in defeat the first time he went

• 
  Don Wayne was on his knees praying for a song just before he wrote "Country Bumpkin." You might not know that song but look it up. It did okay.

• 
  Eddy Arnold refused to record "Welcome To My World" several times before he finally recorded it and had a huge hit with it.

• 
  Sonny Throckmorton thought no one would ever record his songs so he moved back to Texas. Then people started recording them and he because the hottest Nashville writer of the late 70s.

• 
  Willie struggled to be a recording artist for about 18 years before he finally made it.

• 
  I left Nashville, the town I once said I was born to be in, about three months after a guy said he'd hook up with some publishers. Why the hell did I do that? I could have been a contenduh!

• 
  In about a year and a half, I plan to be back in Nashville.

How do you quit something you were never asked to do? Some would notice here that you were missing, Derek since you are a pretty prolific poster but a guy like me could quit and no one would ever know I was here. But something pulls us back. Somehow even in the frustration of it all we come back to say what we need to say and hear what the rest of us think about that. Funny I think you posted your best set of lyrics ever this morning... Savannah is pretty damned good. A lot less than that has made it big...wish I knew the answer to that one. Until we figure it all out, its good thing we have such a great group of people here to hang with.

Kevin

Hi Derek and the rest of the gang:

All of us have had serious thoughts about "throwing in the towel" and I don't have to tell you that the Music Biz is a cruel mistress. I think Sub was the one who said, "If it stops being fun just quit." Maybe not forever... maybe for just a little while to clear the brain and restore the creative juices.

This little adventure is just about the hardest thing I've ever attempted. Still, I love having the opportunity to create something unique. (Notice I didn't say GREAT!) Self doubt can be a real killer. Of course we all wonder if our songs are capable of "charting." Just remember... ALL IT TAKES IS ONE!

Keep plugging. Don't surrender.

All my best,

Dave Rice

Hi Derek,

Good to meet you. I see you have really lit a fire here with your post, I myself wondered when I saw you on the boards how did you find the time to post so many lyrics/songs and replies in such a short time of being a member of JPF. You must be one speedy fellow on the keyboard (computer that is).

I think we have all been where you are as reiterated by everybody on this thread but if you really want something, you have to define what you want, visualize it and work out how to get there. I have been writing songs since college and I have gone through a lot of stages. From getting my songs ripped apart by the pros to getting very positive feedback on some of the most recent stuff. I guess I am the sort of person who the more you tore my stuff to pieces, the more I wanted to SHOW YOU that I could do it. It is critical to get industry feedback if your goals are commercial because as you would have realized, critiques on these boards are not really aligned with reality. There is a lot of stuff I don't comment on like Linda, because i don't want to rip songs apart if it was not asked for. A reality check in this business is very hard to swallow especially if you have never had one.

I most recently took a 2 year break from writing because I just could not cope with family and work demands but before that I literally had an epiphany here on these boards in 2005 when I joined. I had been at the stage of getting mixed reviews on my stuff, I didn't have a lot of good songs, they took me a long time to finish and I did everything myself, the lyrics, the music and the singing. I came on these boards and was literally blown away by some of the lyrics I saw and my reality check was that while I was a reasonable lyricist, I had to work too hard at it, people on these boards were tossing out lyrics faster that I could finish 2 lines. Then and there I knew that lyric writing was not my strength. The music part had always been easy though and I found myself dashing off melodies in minutes to hours, much faster than I ever wrote a complete lyric. I gave myself the chance to develop my composing skills by collaborating with lyricists and the results were amazing to me. The industry feedback became overwhelmingly positive and still I couldn't follow it up then because I had to go back to work and a full time travelling job with 2 babies is no joke. After my health and sanity suffered I had to start back writing and I am once again visualizing the day when I can stop working at any other day job but music.

Is this an easy path?....NO! Sub has much to say on this. Will it test you beyond belief?....YES. Know Thyself is probably the best advice I can offer. Do some soul searching, identify your strengths which I think you kind of know already and collaborate. It is no accident that about 75% of songs have more than one writer. I will end here with a quote from Joni Mitchell in a Lyric Writing book I am reading now.

"Everybody's a singer-songwriter now, but not everybody should be, not everybody can do all of these things, and yet everybody does. And that's why I think music has gone downhill. It used to take 3 - a great lyricist and a great musician and then a great singer. like with Frank (Sinatra), and that's why that stuff is so enduring - because you had 3 gifted people doing it. Now you've got people, they're not really a great singer or a great writer or a great musician doing it, so the standards have dropped severely." - Joni Mitchell

She was talking about the 70's I think but this is still applicable today.

All the best and don't quit,

Rachel

All I can share is the teency bit of perspective I have.
Most of what seems to sell any musician seems more about attitude.
The braisen for the time will get further than the meek.
I have heard people that play music that sounds like it came out of a boombox with lyrics that some third grader heard.
People seemed to love it.
Yet have people have had immaculate recordings that have gone nowhere.
It is better to try and strive to have quality and meaning than to prostitute oneself.
Because we get older and will have to look back.

Hi Bill

Wow a move to music city now that's a pretty big deal. Buying a hosue there is pretty big as well. Also singing up for NSAI and signing up for songwriting courses. That's a lot and very inspirational. Good luck with all that Bill and thanks for all the encouragment!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Ray

Points well taken

Hi Kim

Excellent things you have said. Defining goals seems to be key as to where you won't to go and how far you'll travel to get there. It's awesome to hear you are making achievable goals and I think I need to set some for myself as well. Thanks for your encouragement and the time you've spent here liftming my psirits I really appreciate it. I'd say I define sucess by being known by your music somehow (I guess some might say you can get that right here lol)My ultimate goal would be radio play of one of my songs. That said I know it's going to take some time. Thanks again Kim Appreciate ya!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Anne

Thanks for your visit and time I see what you mean it's not like giving up is going to satisfy if this is what I truly want. And if I do have some talent maybe I just need to develop it. Thanks again and welcome to JPF!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Snake

Yes you are right certainly and I do feel I write good songs just maybe not commercial quality yet. It's good to see that you've been there too and how you dealt with it thanks for the support!
Sincere Blessings! Brother Snake
Derek

Hi Linda

Wow I sure did ignite some feedback didn't I? (wish my songs got half this attention lol) Thanks for the praise and yes I am open to all critiques shred it if need be cause I know now that I must get better at this. My best work now need not be my best work 5 weeks from now. I have prayed about it some an the answer seems to be if it makes you happy then go for it. Music does make me happy I know I need to improve but boy I have no desire to give up. Thanks again for your time and encouragment.
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi Linda

you have another great point there we really are a community an we need not be afraid to discuss ideas and work on things together. It's critical that we do because even if we can do it on our own we probably shouldn't lol
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi John

Sage advice my friend.

Hi Moker

That seems like the best idea that has come out of this. Write my best song get it demoed nicely then pitch it. I also like your idea of setting a 6 month goal mine might be a 1 year but you never know. Thanks for your encouragement brother I really appreciate it a lot!
Sincere Blessings
Derek

Hi again Mike

Thanks for the advice on heather my only problem is most of my song are male pov so I am not sure it would work although if I started writing more vague it might lol but thanks again for the advice!
Sincere Blessings
Derek