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#536880 - 08/29/07 01:57 PM How old is too old?  
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Stephen John (singch Offline
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Stephen John (singch  Offline
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Trinidad & Tobago
Hey guys, I was chatting with one of our own the otherday, he mentioned he was 42 yrs. and still trying to get along in the business as a songwriter. I'll be 30 this year and want to persue being a singer/songwriter.
Bearing in mind the trends internationally where the younger you are the greater your chances of success are as a performer what do you all think how old is too old to be a performer.

Here in T&T 30 is still young what about in your individually countries?

#536882 - 08/29/07 02:18 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
Joined: Jan 2001
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Johnny Daubert Offline
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New Jersey, USA
Play till your dead! Period.

Business concerns, or pleasure concerns?

Just play! Or write, or dance, or rollerblade,,,,whatever your passion is,,,,DO IT!

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#536888 - 08/29/07 02:33 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
Joined: Sep 2001
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Jean Bullock Offline
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I don't think there is a cut off date for creativity. If what you are trying to do is create music and perform it, your age doesn't matter. If you are trying to be a singer who is also a sex symbol, age may matter.


Please visit my facebook EZ3D PopUps for free papercraft templates. Great for beginners of all ages.

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#536889 - 08/29/07 02:39 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
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Hummingbird Offline
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"he mentioned he was 42 yrs. and still trying to get along in the business as a songwriter."
- It doesn't matter how old a songwriter is.

"how old is too old to be a performer"
If you are talking about being a pop star, probably 25.

If you are talking about being a performing songwriter... 60, 70, 80, 105? I saw Buckwheat Zydeco at the Blues Bash here and he was totally awesome and all the kids adored him & his music.. he was born in 1947 - he's 60. I saw Tom Jones here - the place was sold out - and not just middle-aged folks, people of all ages - he was born in 1940, making him 67 -- and he wrote his first song at the age of 62.

Now people will tell you those two gentlemen are successful because they started at an early age. So, if you want, you can believe that no one will listen to you sing at 50 because you started singing at 45, but they would listen to you sing at 50 because you started at 15. Well, I don't like limitations. I prefer to believe that people will listen to you because you sing with your heart and are walking your path.

And people will tell you no label will look at you over the age of... pick an age... 30, whatever. But how many people nowadays are going to get label deals (and why people want label deals is beyond me anyway). So what. You get out, play out, sell out, sell units... be an indie. Be the architect of your own success.

There is no 'best before' date for creative talent, skill and passion.


Vikki Flawith: Songwriter/Composer, Singer/Voice Teacher

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#536902 - 08/29/07 03:21 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Hummingbird]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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Terry Moore  Offline
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Well you know the old saying....
!If your gonns write about life..you gotta have lived it"
If your music targets young people..then i reckon you gotta be in that age group..as for the rest?..anything goes!

#536913 - 08/29/07 03:41 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Dave Rice  Online Content
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Texas
Being an old coot myself... who just happened to start writing very late in life... and then started to sing even later... I don't believe there are any limitations on creativity regarding one's age. In less than five years, I've written and recorded more than 500 songs. I work very hard at what I consider to be an "art" and not a craft. (That's just my take... call it what you like!) The idea presented above applies to a songwriter but not necessarily to a performer.

I'd love to be able to go back and start writing at a younger age. I was just too busy trying to make a living and feed my family. On the other hand, I have no desire to be a performer. It represents a lifestyle that requires a dedication not generally suitable to the way I want to exist. By that, I mean it can be real tough on a marriage. I'm not interested in living out of a suitcase or having to do "silly stuff" 'cause some dingbat promoter has a stupid idea that might attract attention in the press.

I simply want other talented artists to sing my songs and provide the opportunity for me to be "plugged into" the income stream. To me, that's the hard part of the songwriting biz. Marketing 101. (Networking to the nth degree.)

All my best,

Dave Rice

#536927 - 08/29/07 04:06 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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NEVER! "Middle Aged Crazy" www.cdbaby.com/cd/bobcushing3 {44, and still whoopin' ass, and takin' names with no end in sight!}

Last edited by Bob Cushing; 08/29/07 04:07 PM.

bc
#536939 - 08/29/07 04:43 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Everett Adams Offline
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Everett Adams  Offline
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As for writing,the more life experience the better,performing takes a lot out of young people let alone older people.Life on the road,living out of a suitcase for weeks at a time,you can have it for me,I'm a stay at home type.When you are young,it's a lark but wears thin very fast,that's why they want you young, naive and sexy to look at.


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May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

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#537007 - 08/29/07 08:52 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Richard Maclemale Offline
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Richard Maclemale  Offline
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It is the music business that is to blame for marketing young sexy people. And that is also why popular music totally sucks ass today. Age ain't nothing but a number. If fans don't want to listen to someone older than 25, that only means that they have no taste. That's what I say. Most people honestly don't give a rat's ass about age. Even the high school kids. Mostly if they like something, they like it. Lots of high school kids like old rock. Even the high school kids are now totally ignoring what radio tells them to like. It is a fantastic time to be a songwriter!


Richard MacLemale
Music = http://www.richardmac.com
#537046 - 08/29/07 11:27 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Richard Maclemale]  
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Steve Vaclavik Offline
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Steve Vaclavik  Offline
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Florida
I don't think age is a factor...I think sincerity is. If you have something of quality and believe in it, others will to. Like animals sense fear, people sense sincerity in what you are doing.

Age? Look at Grandma Moses....

Steve V


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#537076 - 08/30/07 01:02 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Steve Vaclavik]  
Joined: Apr 2005
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John Webb Offline
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John Webb  Offline
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NC, USA
Well, I'm 64, retired from public education ten years ago and started my second career of songwriting. In December, I will go back to the Bluebird Cafe for the 9th time to play for the Sunday Night Writers Show. I plan to do this as long as they keep inviting me back. I love it! I'm not signed to any well-known publisher, nor do I have a big hit song, but I intend to keep trying.
j


J
Music is my passion..my joy and my second career..and I'M LOVIN' IT!
http://soundclick.com/johnwebbsingersongwriter
#537094 - 08/30/07 02:02 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: John Webb]  
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Heidi Thompson Offline
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Heidi Thompson  Offline
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NV
From a business viewpoint, the main reason a record label prefers younger artists is the fact that they have to usually invest a ton of money to break an artist and to keep promoting that artist. If they want to recoup their investment, it is easier when an artist has years of career in front of them. The other reason is the record-buying public is of a certain demographic and the record business has been in a steady decline for years. Electronic downloads, ring tones, etc. are taking a large chunk of the business away from CD sales. So, the record company has to factor in how they will make their money back after investing in an artist. It's just the nature of the beast. It's not that people won't buy music from an older artist.

With that being said, 30 years old is still in the ballpark from a business standpoint. From simply an artistic viewpoint, art has no age limit because it originates from the spirit, not the body.


"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#537096 - 08/30/07 02:10 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
Joined: May 2005
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Hummingbird Offline
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That's assuming your aspiration is to get signed by a label. In order to get signed with a label, you need more than a young age. You need to be playing out, touring, selling out concerts, and selling lots of units. If you were 50 and had an amazing track record, who knows? A label might want to partner with you on distribution, etc. Anything is possible if they think they can make good money from you.


Vikki Flawith: Songwriter/Composer, Singer/Voice Teacher

12Feb10- *NEW BLOG: "BE YOUR OWN GURU ;)"

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#537101 - 08/30/07 02:45 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
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Stephen John (singch Offline
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Stephen John (singch  Offline
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Trinidad & Tobago
I must admit that I didn't expect so many responses. Well I do agree with everyone that creativity has no age limit. I do think indie is best (harder road but best). From the little i've heard about lables I think they suck, but I've heard some good stories about some too.

I do believe in honest heart felt music, that why young or old many singer/songwriters from the 80's and earlier still fill halls. Richard made a good point, I think that's why alot of modern music is terrible because of the lables and because of the targeting of younger and younger listeners.

By the way what is "Successful" anyway if I never sell a million unit, does that mean I'm not successful?


#537102 - 08/30/07 02:53 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Posts: 18,829
Indianapolis, IN USA
Richard,

If the public was willing to buy pop songs from 65 year old female artists, the labels would LOVE to sell it and make money from it. Folks put way too much blame on the labels/industry for the tastes of the public. You assume that the labels can truly create the taste/demand rather than filling it. If they could, they wouldn't have a 90% failure rate. The 10% that DOES succeed? Usually 18-28 year old female pop/R&B stars and male rock bands and Rap artists.

If you're a writer, partner with some young performers and supply them with material, pay for the recording costs and be the producer/owner of the masters and go for it. Or, take the risk yourself and prove that the public wants to support older artists. I wouldn't risk my own house on it though.

Brian


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#537108 - 08/30/07 04:40 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Hummingbird Offline
Hummingbird  Offline

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Victoria, B.C. Canada
Whatever you do, DON'T stop performing because you reach some arbitrary number.


Vikki Flawith: Songwriter/Composer, Singer/Voice Teacher

12Feb10- *NEW BLOG: "BE YOUR OWN GURU ;)"

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Be a FAN: http://www.reverbnation.com/vikkiflawith
#537128 - 08/30/07 08:43 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Hummingbird]  
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niteshift Offline
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niteshift  Offline
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Sydney, Australia
It's all about experience, not about age. As a performer, if you're 30 with 20 years of solid experience, chances are you can win over a crowd anywhere, given you're reasonably talented and know how to entertain an audience, and could probably make a reasonable income. Making it into the big time ? , quite a different story, very few are ever given that option. It's a numbers game, and with a large amount of money involved, investers want a return on their investment. Would you buy a thoroughbred racehorse as a 2 yr old, or as a 15 yr old ? It's simply a matter of economics.

Writing? , that's a different story, keep writing them till you drop. There's no or little money in it, but it's a great amount of enjoyment. You have to do it because you love it, not for any supposed huge financial reward which will result. And chances are, it will never provide an income anywhere near the basic minimum wage. Example ; Average ASCAP payout to writers last year? About $5,000. And that's AVERAGE, which has been skewed higher by the massive payouts to established writers.

You just gotta do it for the right reason, and that is for the craft itself.

cheers, niteshift

#537139 - 08/30/07 09:31 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: niteshift]  
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Everett Adams Offline
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Everett Adams  Offline
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,NL Canada
The buying public,13 to 25 years old,have dollars to spend and they spend most of it on music,so they are targeted by the labels.Most adults from 26 up have many more things to spend their money on,like raising a family,music become a luxury and the last thing they will buy.What surprises me is they are not targeting the baby boomers.They make up a large percentage of the population,they have money and most of them have raised their families and many have their houses paid off,therefore they have freed up money to spend on music they like,music they grew up with,from the 60s to the 80s.Car companies are bringing back the popular cars of that era and are successful,how come record companies won't release music with the 60s,70s,and 80s sounds.People like to relive the pleasent memories of their past, that is why some of the most popular music programs on radio are the classics from that era,when most of the great music was produced.

#537238 - 08/30/07 02:29 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Johnny Daubert Offline
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Johnny Daubert  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
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New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
What surprises me is they are not targeting the baby boomers....how come record companies won't release music with the 60s,70s,and 80s sounds.


Because we're not ready "yet". But are getting there...Patience my friend! http://www.myspace.com/tulittletime

Thanks too, for being one that will be supportive,,,,,just need a million others! Or,,,we continue playing anyway. Either way, it's fun for us playing-boomers to play music influenced by that era.

I hope I speak for Iggy, Roon, Marnie, and Doc
John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#537291 - 08/30/07 05:47 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
Joined: Nov 2006
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
BIG JIM MERRILEES  Offline

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Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
I am 54 and my wife hopes I WILL GROW UP SOON. A saying I use is "You are only as old as you feel and when you stop feeling you are OLD.
Without trying to sound too bigheaded I can hold my own against a hell of a lot of people in the business who are less than half my age. There are some a hell of a lot older than me who can shake their thing a hell of a lot better than me.

#537295 - 08/30/07 06:04 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
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Ande Rasmussen Offline
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Ande Rasmussen  Offline
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Martindale, TX, USA
you can be an artist at any age

labels tend to focus on the young
who wants to be with a label these days

it's about quality and uniqueness

ande

Originally Posted by singchef15
Hey guys, I was chatting with one of our own the otherday, he mentioned he was 42 yrs. and still trying to get along in the business as a songwriter. I'll be 30 this year and want to persue being a singer/songwriter.
Bearing in mind the trends internationally where the younger you are the greater your chances of success are as a performer what do you all think how old is too old to be a performer.

Here in T&T 30 is still young what about in your individually countries?


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#537299 - 08/30/07 06:08 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Mike Caro Substudio Offline
Mike Caro Substudio  Offline

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You can always perform write sing and dance for as long as physically possible professionally. And you can play softball every weekend to, but your not going to Yankee Stadium to the majot leagues.
I think the question was meant for making it in the big leagues..

Songwriters - age is a non factor [b]except if you write your age..[/b]
Most songwriters do and most kids can't relate.

Now if you are talking about being a beginner and making BIG MONEY & BIG SUCCESS that means a MAJOR record deal. For Pop Artist 25 is about the limit.
It's better if your 16-21 - 18 & 19 is perfect this goes for young pop rock bands as well. BUt in a pop rock band you can can away with members being 28, 19, 24, 26.

The singer/songwriter with guitar always in hand you have a tad more room if your a young looking and if your really good than at 30 you have a slight chance.

If your established you can be as old as Keith Richards who looks 104

Heavy Metal
these days are much better than in the 80's when A guy had to look like a 20 year old girl.
These guys are bald, beareded, covered in tattoos an ther fans are not teeny bob fanatics. You an get away with being 28-38 in a metal band but again if your a little bit established you can be older.

Music Videos are more important than your song on the radio. No one hardly saw the people we grew up listening to, compared to today. The liitle Radio next to your bed was awesome for keeping age weight and looks out of the picture in the music business.
Video's are the complete opposite, Radio's are dead video's are not.

Society is obessed with looks and superficial things.. The largest part of the music business is obsessed with Society and follow it,

Paris Hilton goes to jail and the world watches and she goes on Larry King and they feel sorry for her, etc..etc..and treat her with kid gloves. her and Britany are victims.

Sally Struthers - feeds thousands of starving children each year and they call her a big fat big


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#538257 - 09/03/07 10:50 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]  
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Monica L. Yasher Offline
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Monica L. Yasher  Offline
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Posts: 120
Pittsburgh, PA
What has been said about artists here is correct.

I went to a NSAI meeting and they announded that the trend for songwriters is you make it between 40-50. But, I have also been told it is all about the song.....

#538349 - 09/03/07 06:23 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Monica L. Yasher]  
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Emily Sanders Offline
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Emily Sanders  Offline
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Santa Monica, CA
One is NEVER too old to create or pursue success!!

Here are a few inspriations:

At the age of 94, Leopold Stokowski, ocnductor, signed a six year recording contract.

At the age of 95, dancer Martha Graham premiered her famous work, Maple Leaf Gala.

At the age of 82, George Bernard Shaw won an Oscar for Best Screenplay for Pygmalian - making him the only person to win
a Nobel Prize and an Academy Award!

At the age of 79, Benjamin Frnaklin invented bifocal eyeglasses.

At the age of 78, Euripides wrote his masterpiece Bacchae.

At the age of 72, Michelangelo designed the dome of St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.

At the age of 64, Loius Armstrong recorded, "Hello Dolly."

At the age of 57, George Washington was inaugurated as the First President of the United States.

At the age of 56, George Frederic Handel composed "Messiah."

Emily






#538474 - 09/04/07 09:41 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Emily Sanders]  
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Everett Adams Offline
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Everett Adams  Offline
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#538477 - 09/04/07 09:47 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
Graham Henderson (D)  Offline

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If you can ask the question, you are still young enough.
Write on.
Graham (older than dirt and I don't care) H

#538478 - 09/04/07 09:49 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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niteshift Offline
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niteshift  Offline
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Sydney, Australia
Emily, good list, but not too many performers in there.

cheers, niteshift

#538492 - 09/04/07 10:24 AM Re: How old is too old? [Re: niteshift]  
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Jerry Jakala Offline
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Jerry Jakala  Offline
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Pinellas Park.FL USA
B.B King 82,Dave Hole got his first recording contract with Alligator records @ 53,Pine Top Perkins in his 90's,Buddy Guy late 60's,Hubert Sumlin 70 + Sterling Magee 70 +,The Rolling Stones in their 60's.A lot of classic rock acts and Blues players are out there persuing their dreams.
A lot of them are established acts some are not.
Like Luther Allison once said.
"If you don't like music you have a hole in your soul"



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#538532 - 09/04/07 12:48 PM Re: How old is too old? [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
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unbehaun Offline
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unbehaun  Offline
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Thief River Falls, MN, USA
I'm 57 and just relaunched a music career that I put on hold to raise kids. I've thought this same thought and come to the conclusion that the sky's the limit if you can entertain people and cause them the return to your venue. I plan to play until they send the paramedics in!


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