Who's Online Now
24 registered members (couchgrouch, CTthomas, Andy K, Deej56, Dave Rice, ckiphen, Chris Wood, Aaron Corley, 4 invisible), and 370 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Donna Dutchess
Donna Dutchess
WNY, USA
Posts: 164
Joined: May 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Let's Leave Behind This Crazy World (w/ T. David)
by Travis david. 08/12/20 01:16 AM
Mothership of Star Trek
by Gavin Sinclair. 08/12/20 01:08 AM
Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here
by Gavin Sinclair. 08/12/20 12:21 AM
"I Saw Jesus Today" Country
by Steve Altonian. 08/11/20 07:54 PM
I was only me
by ckiphen. 08/11/20 06:11 PM
How Many Fingers Am I Holdin' Up
by couchgrouch. 08/11/20 04:46 PM
Hang On To Yourself
by Deej56. 08/11/20 01:56 PM
Hey Moonlight - Lyrics Mike Blottenberger
by Deej56. 08/11/20 01:55 PM
Every night is Christmas Eve
by ckiphen. 08/11/20 11:43 AM
I Paint the Town
by couchgrouch. 08/10/20 10:56 AM
Best Moment Of My Life Original Song
by E Swartz. 08/09/20 07:43 PM
Piano (instrumental)
by Irwin. 08/08/20 11:49 PM
This is for collaboration
by Irwin. 08/08/20 11:44 PM
I Wear My Heart
by John W. Selleck. 08/08/20 10:27 PM
limericks
by CTthomas. 08/08/20 04:39 PM
It’s Getting Pretty Complicated Right Now
by CTthomas. 08/08/20 03:51 PM
A heart in Love never lies
by ckiphen. 08/07/20 09:28 AM
Conversations In A Minor Key
by Gerry. 08/07/20 06:09 AM
VIDEO is done...”Spread Your Wings & Fly”
by Steve Altonian. 08/06/20 09:37 PM
I Been There
by Songbird52. 08/06/20 09:16 PM
Peace of Mind
by Deej56. 08/06/20 09:13 PM
A Day In The Life
by Deej56. 08/06/20 09:12 PM
Hard World Waiting
by Deej56. 08/06/20 09:11 PM
Sea of tranquility
by ckiphen. 08/06/20 02:53 PM
Wisdom's Wildfires
by Perry Neal Crawford. 08/06/20 01:04 PM
60 Happy Years
by Dave Rice. 08/06/20 09:34 AM
Your Guitar (Now with alternate bridge)
by John W. Selleck. 08/05/20 01:35 PM
Children of the same God
by ckiphen. 08/05/20 01:25 PM
Encore in the house of the Lord
by ckiphen. 08/05/20 01:06 PM
You Touched Me
by John W. Selleck. 08/04/20 10:11 PM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,834
Travis david 11,922
Kevin Emmrich 10,677
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,845
glynda 8,679
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,909
couchgrouch 7,806
Dave Rice 7,767
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,620
Mark Kaufman 6,584
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
ben willis 6,107
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
niteshift 5,683
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,666
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,376
Roy Cooper 4,241
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,179
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,104
nightengale 4,096
MFB III 3,926
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,815
Dan Sullivan 3,710
beechnut79 3,580
E Swartz 3,519
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
Nigel Quin 2,846
MidniteBob 2,712
Nelson 2,603
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Fdemetrio 2,478
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,242
Judy Hollier 2,232
Wendy D 2,219
Erica Ellis 2,202
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Sunset Poet 2,070
Marty Helly 2,027
maccharles 1,988
DukeWill 1,988
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,650
Noel Downs 1,620
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
Jack Swain 1,554
GocartMoz 1,552
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,473
RogerS 1,471
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,408
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
Deej56 1,325
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
Gerry 1,221
Glen King 1,214
IdeaGuy 1,209
lane1777 1,184
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,172
Diane Ewing 1,158
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
IronKnee 1,009
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
90 dB 948
9ne 931
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
ant 747
Andy K 746
tbryson 737
Andy Kemp 734
Jackie444 731
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Irwin 674
Katziis 652
Moosesong 642
Pat Hardy 641
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
JAPOV 563
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
R&M 527
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
ckiphen 444
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Cecilee 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
spidey 371
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#457780 - 12/24/06 10:11 PM JPF Song Award Judges (Question)  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Brian,
I understand there's usaully thousands of judges involved with each JPF music award event.
It's common knowledge that the three kinds of judges are...

1. Industry Professionals
This includes anyone making part or all of their living doing the following: Publishers, Producers, Engineers, Managers, Publicists, Venue Owners, Booking Agents, Media Professionals and Journalists, Entertainment Attorney's, Musicologists and Music Educators, PRO and other Music Organizational Staff, Record Label Staff, Music Retailers and Instrument/Gear Manufacturers, Internet, Radio and TV Music Broadcast Staff and any other Music Related Professionals earning income from your work.

2. Musician and Writer Peers
This includes anyone who writes or performs music of any genre.

3. Music Fans
If you don't fit into category 1 or 2 and you love music, you qualify to be a Fan judge.

So my question is...
How many judges from each category were involved with this year's award process?

For example:
Industry Professionals - 500
Musician and Writer Peers - 1,000
Music fans - 2,000
Total = 3,500

Obviously the actual (real) numbers are completely different, but this would be a good format to show how the numbers add up from each uniqe judge "type". I think you mentioned somewhere that this year there were about 4,000 judges involved, right?

How does this compare with other popular (well known/recognized) song contents? I don't expect other contests have nearly as many judges to "filter" the music, maybe only three or a few dozen.

Thanks for sharing the facts and any related details which explain how the JPF song awards are actually run.

Thanks,
Michael
P.S.
BTW, I posted these questions several months ago, but got no replies so far. Probably it was around the time you were busy heading off to the awards show and evidently no one else had the answers at that time.
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...s&topic=0&Search=true#Post171003

Last edited by Michael Borges; 12/24/06 10:38 PM.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#458335 - 12/27/06 07:16 PM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Michael Borges (D) Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Borges (D)  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,297
Lake Elsinore, California
Brian,
Got your email with details & discussion.
About 1/3 for each type is what I estimated.

Thanks!
Michael

Last edited by Michael Borges; 12/27/06 07:17 PM.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach

MichaelBorges.com
LicenseQuote.com
#458804 - 12/29/06 09:53 PM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: Michael Borges (D)]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,589
Linda Anthony Offline
Top 100 Poster
Linda Anthony  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,589
Maine
Thanks for asking again Michael, I think a few of us were wondering. It's interesting to know!


My Sound Click

In a time of universal deceit, speaking truth is a revolutionary act", George Orwell

MySpace

http://www.mainesongwriters.com/members/feat_members.asp
#603404 - 04/03/08 09:48 AM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: Linda Anthony]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
Fiji
I was just wondering how the initial nominees are selected ? There seems to be an incredible amount of material to go through. Unlike other awards where songs are peer nominated, I understand that you just send in a song. If there's 80 genres, is there a selection panel for each genre, and how is a determination made wether it's in or out ? Just curious.

Also, has anyone considered using the OurStage voting system ? As a community partner, and as a sponser, it would sure streamline the process.

cheers

#603410 - 04/03/08 10:51 AM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,062
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,062
Indianapolis, IN USA
We talked to them about doing something together on it but their process doesn't work for ours because you'd never have enough voters to go through 300-400-500K songs and choose genres etc. We may find a way to work with them on something in context of the awards, for example the video categories which are generally far fewer in entries and more suited for their system. They could also possibly participate once nominations were in and we may well test it out. I'd be curious to see how their results would compare to our own final results. Might be very informative for both of us.

We have a large number of screeners. Over 8000 participated last time. I expect it may be 10K or more this time around. All the steps of the awards are spelled out on the FAQ on this board. Check it out.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#603416 - 04/03/08 11:12 AM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
Fiji
You mean 8,000 screeners or 8,000 final voters ? I'm just wondering how the nominees are selected. You mean 8,000 people go through 300,000 songs ? That would be 37.5 songs per person, so who gets what to determine the nominees ? Do you register for a genre in your field ?

cheers, niteshift

#603444 - 04/03/08 01:16 PM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,062
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,062
Indianapolis, IN USA
The numbers are different every year and also different for each category. A small category may have a small number of overall screeners. A gigantic one may have dozens of people screening it. At each stage there are notes and the selections gets smaller and smaller and whittled down. If there's a doubt on a song or album, it gets forwarded to see how it fairs in the next round. When we get to the end of the process, we often have 50-150 songs still in the running and 20-40 albums for nominations. Then we take all the notes and info and ratings from the previous processes and talk to all the screeners and whittle them down to final nominations. It's never an exact quantifiable thing because some genres might start with 20,000 songs or 1000 albums and others may only have 25-30 albums and a few hundred songs. Also some genres are more complex than others. It's tougher to screen long Classical pieces versus 2 minute punk songs. Or if we have something in another language, we have to screen for melody and production on one hand and then find someone fluent in that language to chime in on lyrical content. Then you take something like Indian music and it's tough to know what is classical and what is original. 2 identical pieces may sound very different from each other but be considered the same Raga.

The bottom line is that we use as many people as we need to get it down to the nominations. Then we open it up to a much wider number of people to vote to choose the winners. We don't often use fans to do earlier screening unless we find someone with a lot of knowledge on a specialized category (and in those cases you could almost consider them "industry" simply because they are experts in that type of music even if they aren't employed in the business).

We are open to adding judges who have some level of expertise in a specific genre. Educators, successful artists and writers, industry professionals and we also use some JPF awards nominees as we feel they've already reached a level that indicates knowledge and awareness enough to help out. Judging early is actually pretty easy. You could find nearly anyone off the street to tell the difference between a really horrible song and a really good one. As the numbers get smaller, the screening gets tougher and we do a lot of double checking to keep from missing something. When in doubt, we push it forward. Our system has a few other techniques and processes that I don't want to divulge simply because we've developed this process through a lot of hard work and we've figured out how to efficiently get through an enormous amount of music in a steady and effective manner and I'd rather not hand all the secrets over to the various contests out there trying to make money off our members. Let them do their thing, we'll do ours.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#603454 - 04/03/08 01:44 PM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
Fiji
I agree with the early judging comment, it's fairly easy to determine a dud song wthin the first 30 seconds, and hence it gets put to one side.

I guess the basic question is, who and how many are doing the screening, in other words, how many sets of ears are listening to a particular piece.

With a peer nominated system, it's relatively easy, as no one is going to put their name to something which is not so good.

With an open system, it's really up to the integrity of the panelists to detemine what goes foward. Is there a nominated panel, or a publically listed panel of judges which determine the nominees. This provides both clarity and transparancy, and also gives the contest iself a hightened sense of credability.

I just simply don't know who is determining what is in and what is out, so therfor don't have an opinion on wether to put anything foward or not.

cheers, niteshift

#603468 - 04/03/08 02:30 PM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,062
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,062
Indianapolis, IN USA
When you see these contests who list famous names as their "judges" it's VERY misleading. Most of the time those famous names are listening only the a tiny handful of songs at the very end after all the screening and judging has been done. It's very misleading and borders on dishonest in my opinion. We've had a policy since day 1 not to divulge the names of judges. Most don't want their names out there and in some cases wouldn't do it if they were. Though we have a few "celebrities" who do heavy screening, I don't think fame has much to do with ability to screen massive amounts of music. We do use many of the same people to screen our awards as who screen many major contests. We use our mentors, award winning peer members, educators, media (radio, TV, Print) music folks, industry professionals who make their living full time in music and so on. That is as specific as I can be. I think the results of our judging speak for themselves. The material we call attention to is outstanding. And that is the goal in the end, to bring positive attention to outstanding music that might otherwise not get the attention it deserves.

If you want a list of famous names, spend 30 bucks and enter one of the "celebrity" laden contests out there. Those folks will likely never actually hear your music, but if the names make you feel good, go for it. By the way, when you list the names of who is judging what category, you open pandora's box for people to try and corrupt it all. No thanks.

If you're still not convinced, by all means, please don't enter anything.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#603470 - 04/03/08 02:50 PM Re: JPF Song Award Judges (Question) [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
niteshift Online content
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Online Content
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,683
Fiji
Um, Brian, I'm not saying that the final nominees either don't deserve their place, nor are they there by accident. The final select list is of a very high standard, and having listened to the last round of the JPF awards, I can honestly say that each winner in it's catagory deserved to be there.

I'm simply asking an honest question. I don't want or need the celebrity factor, I don't enter contests for that reason, and I would never pay money to do so. I just have no idea who is judging my music, out of 300,000 entries, down to a nominee list of 480.

As I said, when it's peer nominated, it cuts out the 'who and what if' factor. There is no explanation here, so I'll just give it a miss and keep on writing the songs when I can. I'm just not getting a straight answer on how the nominees are chosen, and by whom.

cheers, niteshift



Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
Dean_McAlister, Chris Wood, CBAY, mrpeepshow, Craig Allen
21286 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics120,617
Posts1,135,143
Members21,286
Average Posts Daily35
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"If you are stuck in your musical composing, be unreasonable. Change your environment. If you are stuck in your lyrical efforts, instead of forcing the same old words out, force yourself to do unreasonable things." -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
Jody Whitesides (2020)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0