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#401765 - 04/25/06 04:31 AM What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,344
Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


Top 100 Poster

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,344
cincinnati oh usa
Yesterday a man died of gunshot wounds he took outside of Boswell's Alley,{a local bar} Bringing the Death toll to 3 in 6 shootings that have occured in or just ouside of establshments that I've played in the last 6 months. {Boswells {fatality}, Sudsy Malones{fatality},Mulligan's{Hyde Park,fatality} Shelton's in Cheviot{patron wounded in the leg}The Blue Note{gunfire exchanged, noone hit} Sunset pub{Price hill, drive by into the bar, noone hit}. The number of fights involving weopons,and large groups of people has also escallated dramatically in the last couple of years. It is now necessary to have cop details outside of what used to be friendly neighborhood bars. Not to mention Sam Nation being offed by a drunken driver{who's on the lam},and of course the murder of Mike Bany outside of Tommy's back in 95'. I can't get people to come to my songwriter night because people are terrified of downtown.I feel like I should start wearing body armor to my gigs, and apply for hazzard pay. WHAT THE F*** HAS HAPPENED TO THIS CITY???!!!

------------------
bc

Last edited by Bob Cushing; 03/20/07 03:56 AM.

bc
#401766 - 04/25/06 05:35 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,264
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


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Joined: Apr 2001
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Indianapolis, IN USA
That sounds like a good story for the national news..

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#401767 - 04/25/06 10:57 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,400
Joe Wrabek Offline
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Joe Wrabek  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,400
Garibaldi, OR USA
I hate to bring up the usual cliche, but it does sound like there might be a song in it. Sort of an "I've got a death wish--I live in Cincinnati" thing. If other folks are as concerned about the problem as you are, it could become a theme song for the issue, and both you and it could get some attention (that it sounds like you both could use). Could do worse.

And while there's the possibility somebody could off you in the street for singing about, well, people being offed in the street, you might be able to de-fuse the idea by mentioning it in the song...

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

#401768 - 04/25/06 03:50 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Jul 2005
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Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


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cincinnati oh usa
I'm on it!

------------------
bc


bc
#401769 - 04/25/06 10:10 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 988
Tony Whitehead Offline
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Tony Whitehead  Offline
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Posts: 988
Louisville Ky
David Crosby said once.."one should only write a song when absolutely moved to do so"
,,well, maybe not an exact quote..but that's what he said.

Joe, excellent suggestion.
BC, git er done !

#401770 - 04/29/06 12:17 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Apr 2003
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lizzorn Offline
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Posts: 291
Morrow, Ohio USA
Hey Bob,
I have been wondering the same thing for years. Living in the area myself I have seen the art galleries downtown close their doors. Club crowds change, and a host of other things.
I have some ideas about it, but don't want to get into a political debate.
Heck, people stopped coming out to support me a long time ago. Afraid to go downtown, or wherever.
A lot of my supporters are women, and they will just not get in their cars alone to go downtown anymore.
I remember when Mike Bany was killed. I was involved in a gallery just up the street there on Main at the time, and I was driving down there a couple of times a week, by myself and staying late. Often closing down Kaldis, and then walking a block or three or four to my car to go home.
During that time I had friends who got robbed on the street, cars broken into. Yet for around fifteen years I stayed involved and so did a lot of other artists and musicians who were into the art/music scene then.

The bottom line is that the city leaders don't really give a hoot about downtown, particularly poor areas like Over The Rhine.
Heck, half of the people who belong to this chapter will not, or would rather not, meeet at a club or, be involved in things that happen in bars.
I wanted to start a songwriters night at an area venue, but could not get more than a couple
of people in the group to sign on.
So (Bob) over the past months I have
suggested your
songwriters night, Rene's songwriters group that meets in Westchester, and other things that people have told me about, so far I have yet to see anyone follow up, or let me know that they have done so.
I would love to get a songwriters night going that people would get involved in and support, maybe something out this way.

But in all honesty, I guess that if I were in your shoes Bob, where you are out making a living every night, I would be a tad ticked off too. Probably downright mad.
I think for me, I just became dissapointed and overwhelmed, as people began to leave and left less of us there to hold up the sky.......

Take Care, Liz

#401771 - 04/29/06 01:04 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,400
Joe Wrabek Offline
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Joe Wrabek  Offline
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Garibaldi, OR USA
"Less of us there to hold up the sky" is a beautiful line. Needs a song to go with it.

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

#401772 - 04/29/06 04:49 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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cincinnati oh usa
I just posted a tirade on the subject on MYSPACE, and the feed back has been overwhlemingly in my favor{58-2 last time I checked}{1 person thought I was a raving idiot, the other{of COURSE!} A racist.} I 've had a couple of people suggest that I'm well-known enough that I should run for city council {If I could find a financial backer I might consider it, but then again, if I thought I had it bad dealing with drunks and weirdo's in bars, I'd lose my mind dealing with the current crop of retards on council {the names change, but the status quo remains} I'd probably wind up like Kabaka, but for the opposite reason, I'd get offed by some gang-bangers, cuz, I'd be their worst nightmare come true!

------------------
bc


bc
#401773 - 07/22/06 05:17 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
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Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


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cincinnati oh usa
Well, It's happened yet again! Last night a 25 year old doorman at Stanleys Pub{who was a college student holding down 3 jobs}was gunned down outside the bar as he tried to thwart a purse snatching of one of Stanleys patrons. Stanleys is a venerable neighborhood bar with nightly live music in a very nice neighborhood.{I play every other saturday at Allyn's Cafe around the corner.} Up until the last year or so Cincy's record breaking homicide rates were confined to black on black,thug on thug,but now the heat is REALLY turning up, because more and more innocent by-standers are being caught in the crossfire,and now {as in THIS case} the predators are moving into the "nice" neighborhoods. {Did I mention that Cincinnati is now reported to have the fastest declining population of ANY major U.S city?} There is a mass exodus of all the decent people fleeing for the outlying suburbs. The toll now is 8 shootings and 5 fatalities in bars that I've played in the past year! I t makes me want to scream to the high hills, but our civic leadership remains as clueless and bumbling as ever! I am totally at my wits end with this situation!!!!

------------------
bc


bc
#401774 - 09/01/06 05:58 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 24
bheck68 Offline
Casual Observer
bheck68  Offline
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Cincinnati, OH, USA
It's not just this city. It's most cities across the nation. Murder rates are up nationwide for the first time in a decade. What is rarely talked about is the concurrence of this trend and the war(s) we're engaged in. When we're treated to daily doses of mass indiscriminate homicide, life is devalued everywhere. What's a little gunfire into a crowded bar when we see the lives or Iraqi children snuffed out on a daily basis? It's no mere coincidence.

BH

Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">WHAT THE F*** HAS HAPPENED TO THIS CITY???!!!

[/B]</font>

#401775 - 09/02/06 01:55 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


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Indianapolis, IN USA
Are murder rates really up? I know they are down from a peak in 1980 by 50% nationwide. Do you have stats posted somewhere that indicate otherwise? In 2004 (the last year of nationwide stats) it was the lowest in 25 years.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
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jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#401776 - 09/14/06 01:25 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?!  
Joined: Sep 2006
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Grizz Offline
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Grizz  Offline
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honolulu
It seems like the city of Cincinnati is a dangerous place. Are there any neighborhoods that are considered safe, with reasonable rent? Are there any venues that one could reasonably feel were safe to go to in the evening? Doesn't all the negatives seriously impact songwriters getting together?

#462045 - 01/08/07 05:19 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Grizz]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


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cincinnati oh usa
Grizz, Not anymore unfortunately, although the rental rates are pretty reasonable compared to other cities {LOL}. As I said, people are being gunned down in what used to be "nice" neighbohoods,and the"bad" ones have turned into Dodge City. What used to be working class neighborhoods have turned into slums, because the city has torn down many of the housing projects, and sent the displaced to section 8 housing in the middle-class neighborhoods. Bheck is correct that this problem is not unique to Cincinnati, and Brian also is correct that murder rates are actually DOWN in many parts of the country {unfortunately not in Cincy, where we just broke our all-time homicide record} It just breaks my heart, because growing up in the 70's we had the Big Red Macine, The Bengals were good more often than not,the city was clean, beautiful and friendly, and was brimming with civic pride. Now people seem ashamed to admit they're from here. I wish I had any answers, but I don't know where to start.


bc
#463772 - 01/12/07 08:59 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Charlann Shepherd Offline
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Charlann Shepherd  Offline
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Burlington, KY, USA
Well, I feeel pretty safe where I live in Northern KY. I drive up to Bond Hill to teach school every day, but I feel more comfortable living over the river!

Charlann

#464092 - 01/13/07 05:44 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Charlann Shepherd]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


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Posts: 4,344
cincinnati oh usa
My wife and I may be joining you {across the river} in a couple of years when her kds have moved out. Cold Springs is a great area BTW!} The exodus continues...P.S, I host songwriter nights at Bar Monet in Covington the first and third tuesdays each month...feel free to drop by and play some!

Last edited by bcushing; 01/13/07 05:46 PM.

bc
#475034 - 02/16/07 07:15 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 201
chapman Offline
Serious Contributor
chapman  Offline
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Kentucky USA
Grew up in Cincy. Back in the day when the 'lectric buses still snapped and crackled going up Montgomery Road.

Left about 20 years ago, went across the river, bought some acreage below Lexington and never looked back. Damned glad I did. wink

For all it's faults, the Bluegrass, whether Northern, in the mountains or Land between the Lakes is just a nice place to be.

**


Chapman Jones
-------------
http://www.chapmanjones.com
#475715 - 02/19/07 05:50 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: chapman]  
Joined: Jul 2005
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Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


Top 100 Poster

Joined: Jul 2005
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cincinnati oh usa
Chapman, KY is not a bad place to be at all these days.. My wife and I may move there when the last of her kids have moved on. Just don't expect me to become a UK fan!


bc
#483311 - 03/15/07 11:41 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,116
Mary Lou Sudkamp Offline
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Mary Lou Sudkamp  Offline
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Alexandria, KY USA
I know Cincy has it's problems downtown ... I hestitate to go down there at night for anything! I worked downtown for many years and I support the Reds and Bengals (even through the tough years!) but was always glad to head back over the river! I really wish they could find a solution ... I think when another black mayor was elected, everyone thought all the problems would disappear.

Hey, you're welcome in our neck of the woods anytime, Bob!

#483443 - 03/16/07 04:03 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Mary Lou Sudkamp]  
Joined: Jul 2005
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Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


Top 100 Poster

Joined: Jul 2005
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cincinnati oh usa
Hello Mary Lou!{sorry, couldn't resist!} Mallory has done SQUAT since being elected, ecxept hire a bodyguard, and give Roger Owensby's family 6.5 Million of taxpayer money. The faces change, but the incompetance and inertia stay the same!


bc
#483482 - 03/16/07 07:43 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,116
Mary Lou Sudkamp Offline
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Mary Lou Sudkamp  Offline
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Alexandria, KY USA
I don't know how they expect the police to do their job. You've got kids with a rap sheet a mile long and they get caught or shot while commiting a crime ... and then people yell police brutality and they're up in arms because "he's a good kid" ... makes no sense to me! Then the communities say they don't get police protection! I repeat ... how do they expect police to do their job?!

#483491 - 03/16/07 08:11 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Mary Lou Sudkamp]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,264
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Hmmm.. maybe we won't start our Southeast Roadtrip in Cincy as I planned this year.. = )

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
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jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#483492 - 03/16/07 08:12 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,264
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,264
Indianapolis, IN USA
By the way.. my brother lives north of Cindy in Westchester... it's nice up there! = ) He also works in the tallest High Rise downtown which is named after his Architecture Firm.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#483637 - 03/17/07 06:21 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Jul 2005
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Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline


Top 100 Poster

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,344
cincinnati oh usa
Brian, Tell him to come see me! I play twice in Westchester every Friday {5-8pm Happy Hours at Anthony's Bar and Grille, and The Olde Village Tavern 10-2am} details at www.bobcushing.com I'd like to meet him! Westchester IS nice, but has a bad problem with illegal immigrants. {You can't hide ANYWHERE!} Mary Lou, you are dead on!!! I'm friends with one of the cops who was indicted {Blaine Jorg} he was a great cop and still is a great guy, and I've known his family for 20 years, and the way he, and officers Roach and Caton were railroaded and their lives and careers destroyed for doing their jobs is crimminal!


bc
#483649 - 03/17/07 07:14 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Mary Lou Sudkamp]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 236
James B.Williamson Offline
Serious Contributor
James B.Williamson  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Texas
Howdy Bob,
It's been many moons since I've been to Cincy and I sure hate to hear how it's gone down...like you say,it used to be very nice...seems this whole country's taken a plunge ...same way here in this region.I blame it all on crooked politicians in both parties..and lack of parental discipline..not to mention all the namby pamby political correctness nonsense.
Cops nowdays have their hands tied by silly gutless judges....I wouldn't pin on a badge for all the tea in China and I tip my hat to the folks who do.
James

#484371 - 03/19/07 06:03 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: James B.Williamson]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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James, I agree with you completely on all of the above.
I realize that these increasing problems are not unique to Cincy, but in our case a lot of these problems could be rectifyed with a little vision and some leadership {Cincy has neither!} The political Correctness issue is a huge one..Some thug who has a crimminal record a mile long, outstanding warrants and has no buisness walking around free, takes a shot at a cop...cop returns fire and kills thug,all his fellow thugs in the Hood' cry "RACISM!!!" and the gutless wonders on city council start the apeasement process, lest they be branded racists too, and risk their political careers.It's an ongoing trend in this town.

Last edited by Bob Cushing; 03/20/07 04:02 AM.

bc
#660409 - 10/17/08 04:19 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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I thought this I was through with this subject,, but unfortunately someone was killed outside of my regular saturday night venue last night {wednesday}so I guess the hits keep coming {no pun intended}


bc
#660619 - 10/17/08 11:22 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Polly Hager Offline
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Is that the club near Dent, Bob? I haven't been able to get out to see you play because of my driving sitch, but was meaning to come there.

I went to Main Street with a friend several months ago, and I can't remember the name of the club (they change so fast) but we went to see Campfire Crush play. Anyhoo, even before the band started, there was a crowd gathered outside of a drugstore across the street, a BIG crowd, apparently buying drugs (we watched it all go down) and the cops would come, run everybody off, and 10 minutes later, they'd all be back again. We finally decided to leave while it was still early, because we were getting freaked out. One of the staff escorted us to our car, which was only 1/2 a block away. I was so sad to see the Main Street district turn into that. No reason for it. All those bars are going bankrupt and shutting down. Ten years ago, it was thriving and good music was all over the place.


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You're supposed to be grooving as hard as you can, all of the time. - Stephen Gaskin
#663461 - 10/28/08 03:24 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Polly Hager]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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Yup, I was one of the last hold-outs on Main St. {The Lab} Face it, the natives don't want suburban white folks in their hood'.


bc
#663472 - 10/28/08 04:00 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Tom Tracy Offline
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"when in doubt, move out."
That's why I'm not in Philly anymore. Of course, I'm not playing anywhere either, but I'm still alive. Mostly.

#663603 - 10/29/08 03:13 AM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Tom Tracy]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Tracy
"when in doubt, move out."
That's why I'm not in Philly anymore. Of course, I'm not playing anywhere either, but I'm still alive. Mostly.
There is indeed a mass exodus out of Cincinnati to the outlying suburbs.Unfortunately the trash seems to be following.
Must just be the decline of civilization in general. I'll stay put as long as I can make a living as a musician here. It breaks my heart that I had to move out of the neighborhood I grew up in.


bc
#664332 - 10/31/08 07:24 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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Here we go again, two people wounded in a drive-by outside the same bar where a guy was killed a week ago. Luckily this keeps happening on nights I don't play there.{Knock on wood}


bc
#669052 - 11/19/08 04:19 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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Here we go again, and again, and again...Back in the 80's "Annie's"
was the premier Metal club in the city and my girlfriend and I practically lived there. Of course times have changed and so has the clientel. Last sunday there was a shooting in the parking lot.
Long story short...Cops persued suspect, suspect fired at cops, cops returned fire, suspect missed, cops didn't, sorry bout' his luck!


bc
#744851 - 08/12/09 07:46 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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beechnut79 Offline
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Villa Park IL
Just wanted to chime in to inform you that there is a similar problem here in Chicago. The Lincoln Park area muggings may even be a nationwide story by this time, as there have been at least a dozen incidents over the last couple of weeks. Don't know what you're situation is there now, but it's probably not much different from here. You may not have as strong a mayor as does Chicago, but hey, you've got the former Cubs manager!

#744856 - 08/12/09 08:16 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: beechnut79]  
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Sausagelink Offline
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Sausagelink  Offline
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Hey, Jerry Springer was elected Mayor in Cincinatti. What do you expect?

#744860 - 08/12/09 08:22 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Sausagelink]  
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Sausagelink Offline
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In reality, I don't know the answers but I wonder if it could have something to do with the idiocy of liberalism. There are no societal norms anymore. Any god is as good as any other god, you don't always have to have the right answer on school tests to be considered right, crooks are in congress and preachers are in prison, Clinton lied to a federal grand jury and got off, gambling in the form of lottery has become a valuable tool of the state, people as sinister as Charles Manson are kept alive for decades and revered by many fools, and it goes on and on and on. No God is not good.

#747308 - 08/24/09 11:35 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: beechnut79]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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Originally Posted by beechnut79
Just wanted to chime in to inform you that there is a similar problem here in Chicago. The Lincoln Park area muggings may even be a nationwide story by this time, as there have been at least a dozen incidents over the last couple of weeks. Don't know what you're situation is there now, but it's probably not much different from here. You may not have as strong a mayor as does Chicago, but hey, you've got the former Cubs manager!
PLEASE DON'T REMIND ME!!!


bc
#747309 - 08/24/09 11:40 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Sausagelink]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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Originally Posted by Sausagelink
Hey, Jerry Springer was elected Mayor in Cincinatti. What do you expect?
He was a councilman, resigned after writing a personal check to a hooker, later was elected mayor, then became a news anchor and finally hosted a talk show locally that was much more civil that his national one. He also performed as a singer/ songwriter in local bars in the 60's.

Last edited by Bob Cushing; 08/24/09 11:40 PM.

bc
#748595 - 08/30/09 10:16 PM Re: What the F*** has become of this city?! [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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CincyIndiesMusic Offline
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Bob, I've been saying for years that "the powers that be" in Cincinnati should use Atlanta and Memphis as examples. Both have higher crime rates, but still manage to have thriving entertainment districts in their cities.

The "powers" in Cincy are always talking about drawing tourism into the city, but they don't offer any attractions in the way of entertainment when folks do come here. There has to be a commitment to creating entertainment districts with great music, food, merchandise...and SAFTEY. People come in for the few rare big events we have, and sporting events, but there's NOTHING for them to do in the way of entertainment...unless they want to take their kids to Kings Island (during the season, of course). People want a place to create good memories of their visit.

If other bigger cities with higher crime rates can create a safe environment for patrons and musicians, there's absolutely NO REASON why we can't do it here in Cincinnati.

If all of the mamby-pamby politically correct do-gooders would think about something else beside their own puritanistic agendas (and careers), we might be able to fix this problem. They need to get up off their high-horses and realize that Cincinnati being known for being ultra-conservative is NOT necessarily a good thing. Not when it gets in the way of progress and commerce for the city. And they need to realize that EVERYONE, needs to go by the same legal rules. What is equality, if the law is bent to appease the do-gooders and politically correct? What is wrong with treating each individual situation according to it's faults and merits, and judging by that for everyone?

I, too, am disgusted that even the "burbs" are beginning to be unsafe. But I'll have to say that I stopped going downtown by myself over 15 years ago...it wasn't safe then. But since it was usually a trip to have FUN, it only made sense to take a friend anyway.

I don't pretend to know any of the answers, but I think it has to start with a grassroots movement to revive the entertainment industry and placing our priorities on patron safety. And I don't mean like Main Street was, where 2 blocks over there were thugs and panhandlers that had to be dealt with to get to a venue. It has to be a large area where people feel safe if they park a few blocks away and have to walk to the venue. Until that's accomplished, there will be no new venues and no new restaurants that will want to pariticpate.

I'm willing to get involved, but it would take all of us that give a damned to get everyone we know to pariticpate, too. A huge undertaking...

P.J.
General Manager


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