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#388955 - 09/09/02 03:54 PM Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,372
Bob Young (D) Offline
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Bob Young (D)  Offline
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chicago il usa
Since Mike Dunbar has taken it upon himself
to post meaningful and intelligent posts concerning the intricacies and technical
floob-de-wah of music..(you know..modes and scales and all the correctness stuff)
I feel moved to present the other side of the musical experience.
It's the dark, oily place where what is correct is replaced by what sounds cool..
Where scales are things you put a penny into
and modes are those furry things singers get on their throats.

WATCH THIS SPACE !

Contributions are welcome !

Bob Young

#388956 - 09/10/02 12:11 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Nashville Tennessee
OK, Bob, I'll bite.

My favorite cheap trick on the guitar is the Johnny Cash dollar bill trick. Listen to I Walk the Line by Cash. That's not a drum playing the percussive part. That's Cash who threaded a dollar bill through the strings of his guitar (Over the E under the A over the D under the G over the B under the E, up on the fingerboard near the soundhole), and played the rhythm with his pick.

OK, let's not dissapoint Mr. Young. Keep those tricks coming.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#388957 - 09/10/02 12:28 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Bob Young (D) Offline
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We used that same deal on "Mrs Brown You've Gawt a luvly daughter" by 'Ermans ' Ermits...sounds like a friggin' banjo if you do it right

Good one Mike !

ok..hammer-on notes on a strat...as you're doing it quickly switch the toggle switch back and forth...kinda sounds like a leslie....

Next time you show up late for a gig..tell the owner you'll play shorter sets to make up for it..then quickly head for the stage..they go for it about 90 per cent of the time !

if you're playing a recognizable line or riff in a tune and you screw it up..quickly play the mistake again and then repeat it in the ending of the tune.
Suddenly it's no longer a mistake..it's an arrangement !

more later !

#388958 - 09/11/02 05:55 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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songman Offline
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Bob, I'm starting to get some milage out of that spider thang! Thanks! Tj


TJ Sullivan
#388959 - 09/11/02 06:04 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Bob Young (D) Offline
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Glad it works for ya' TJ...

Gotta share the wealth !

I use it in a couple of unaccompanied solos and it's fun to watch guitar players go "WHA !!!!!"

Bob

#388960 - 09/11/02 06:10 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Bob Young (D) Offline
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OK...here's one for you kids with 12 strings(preferably electric)

Instead of tuning the E and B strings in unison..drop one of the Es to Csharp and one of the Bs to G sharp.
What you got when you play an E chord or a Barre G is the worlds biggest 6th chord.

Actually this works best for soloing off that bar chord..everything on those first two sets of strings is minor thirds and with a little practice you can create some really cool "two guitar" sounding licks !

Try 'er !

Bob

#388961 - 09/16/02 03:10 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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I love it. Another cool trick is made possible by the spring-loaded capo. You can apply it from under the neck so it covers the first five strings on the second fret. Leaving the sixth string un-capoed gives you the same effect as tuning it down a step. Play a D position chord and you get an E chord with an E in the bass that functions like a D chord when you tune the low string down to D...drop D tuning. The payoff is G chord fingers like standard tuning.

Art Theime used to fingerpick the Russian song Meadowlands with a stretch-fabric capo on the second fret. He'd play in actual B minor and hit the low E note of the song by pulling the capo up and striking the open sixth string.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#388962 - 10/01/02 05:36 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Tom Tracy Offline
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yup - those strech capos used to allow for fun tricks. I remember picking an original composition years ago with the stretch capo about the 5 or 7th fret, and in the middle of the finger picking, reach BEHIND the capo (like around the 4th fret) and bend the string. It freaks other guitar players out, but can sound very cool with a minimal amount of practice.

#388963 - 10/01/02 05:41 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Tom Tracy Offline
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Oh, and another thing, we used to put paper clips on the strings - trying to make them buzz like a sitar. It just buzzed annoyingly, but we liked it.

#388964 - 10/01/02 09:57 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Tom,

I just tried your paper clip trick on my acoustic. It sounded like a drunk hammered dulcimer listened to over a tin can and a string. I kind of like it.

Thanks,
Mike

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#388965 - 10/01/02 01:48 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
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For what it's worth. When mucking around on lap steel I have a brass ring slide on my ring finger and dropp that on and off the first string behind the palm slide to get my sevenths.
Altinating the pressure gives a nice bend without it sounding slidie.
Gotta try that dollar note thing. That sound is the best sound in Walk the line I figure.
Hope it works with our plastic money.
Regards.
Graham


------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson

#388966 - 10/02/02 05:33 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Tom Tracy Offline
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Hey - is there any way to move this string to the "guitar and guitarist forum" posting? It seems more relevent there, and we might get a LOT more ideas...

#388967 - 10/02/02 02:29 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Good idea, I'm checking.

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#388968 - 10/02/02 04:13 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
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Probably less work for them that have to do it to just put a post on the guitar forum telling themit is here. I wouldn't have seen this on the guitar forum most probably.
Regards.
GRaham


------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson

#388969 - 10/03/02 02:18 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Bob Young (D) Offline
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OK.......

I'm gonna set these examples in the key of G...
If they work for you..a good idea is to figure them out in other keys as well..that was something I learned a long time ago..whenever something new and cool would pop up the first thing I'd do is learn how to do it in as many keys as possible..

First thing is a nice little ending deal..

If the last note of the tune is G, instead of ending with a G chord make it an A flat major seventh (or G sharp)..kinda retard and arpeggiate the maj 7th for a bit then resolve into the G chord..the more you do it the more natural it will feel and the better you'll get at it...actually..I kinda think E flat maj (or Ionian for you scale guys) against the A flat maj 7 then into a G major mode for the G chord..kinda gives a Maj 9 feel...

A cool little way to quickly change keys and a quick ear fix for shifting a tonal center..(again we'll do this in G)...
Set your ear up by playing G one measure (4 counts) then split measure (two counts each) of C and D....
Do that a few times to lock the G into your ear..then..shift by playing the G chord for 4 counts then the 2minor7 followed by the 5 dominant 7 of the new key two counts each...

For instance..you're in G..Ya wanna do the solo for the tune in E natural...so play the G four counts then 2 counts of F#mi7..two counts of B7..then go ahead and hit that E chord !
Your ear and the ears of your listeners will be ready for the shift I promise !

Same thing if you're in G and the bridge of the tune starts with a C chord..
Instead of going G7 to C..try splitting the bar between dmi7 and g7...

This aint nothhin' new for sure..it's an old bit that's been used a lotta ways

Eagles use it in Desperado..gosh..it's everywhere !

See ya later kids !

bob

#388970 - 10/03/02 05:33 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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songman Offline
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Bob, Are we talking about II-V-I cadences' as applied to ohter chords in the progressions? I recall learning a 12 Bar blues ala Joe Pass and he literally played II-V-I's within the entire 12 Bar structure. It sounded so much hipper, but then again, it was Joe Pass. Thanks, TJ


TJ Sullivan
#388971 - 10/03/02 05:37 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
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Esperance. West Australia
This ask may fit in here Guys.
I have a six string Balalaka I picked up in a flea market. Like three tones in pairs. Like a banjo type thing.
Got sick of keeping the strings tuned in unison and pulled out the second strings and tune it to the bottom three strings of guitar. G B E.
Use it to pick out melodies sometimes.
Reading the altenative tunings for 12 string here made me wonder how it would go if I was to replace the extra strings with ones tuned to sound OK when played. LIke maybe use an A string wound up to a low B tuning paired with the G string etc. Any thoughts on that one Guys?
Just thought it would maybe give the thing a bit more bounce.
had thought of tuning in octaves and may be the way to do it.
Regards.
Graham
Regards

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http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson

#388972 - 10/04/02 01:25 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Nashville Tennessee
Ok, here's one that happened recently. I needed to overdub some mandolin. My old mandolin was hanging on the wall for not much less than a year. When I picked it up the strings were laying on the frets. It couldnt' be played. I fixed it immediately for $1 and played it on my demo. How?

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#388973 - 10/04/02 06:14 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Graham Henderson (D) Offline
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If your saying the action was too low and buzzing Mike. My balalaka at the moment has a paper napkin doubled under the bridge to cure that one in that and my 1968 Tiesco guitar which has a very low action, has the original nut on it and the first string groove has worn down so that string buzzes, has a piece of a match under the string to cure that one.
One day I will cut a nice piece of felt to fit under the balalaka bridge so it looks a bit prettier. One day.
Regards.
Graham

------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson

#388974 - 10/04/02 07:32 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Tom Tracy Offline
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Um, Mike,
Did you weave the $ in-between the mandolin strings and play it ala Johnny Cash???

#388975 - 10/04/02 11:57 AM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


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Joined: Apr 2001
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Nashville Tennessee
Good guesses, but no cigar.

It was a cheap mandolin with a free standing bridge, you could move the bridge when the strings were slack.
I slackened the strings and put four quarters under the bridge. This raised it up to where it was somewhat playable.

It sounded muted, but with a little verb I mixed it back and it might as well have been a Gibson.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#388976 - 10/04/02 02:03 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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Bob Young (D) Offline
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Hey TJ..

Yeah..see...as a more "mature and experienced" (read OLD) guy like me this kind of substitution is probably second nature for you..alot of younger players may not be familiar with the concept.
I had a young guitar player working with me last night..we were riffing in a sort of c7th feel...I said to him"take this next chorus and think Gmi7th"..he just kinda looked at me with a vacant stare like I was speaking Chinese !

Bob

#388977 - 10/06/02 06:19 PM Re: Cheap tricks and ear-stretchers !  
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songman Offline
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Good Point Bob, these lines of thought can really open up some doors to players trying to "turn that corner" so to speak. I'm lookin' every day finding out that the more I learn the litlle I seem to know, but hey, it never ends! I just did a gig with this cat named Carlos Guitarlos, semi famous in West Coast circles, he's an older dude that's forgotten more blues and jazz than most players' ever learn to begin with. Took me to school Jack! Taught me how much I love the guitar.
Best Regards, Tj


TJ Sullivan

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