JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Music Theory and Education circle of fiths

I am an avid music reader. I can sight read, and have a full understanding of all the scales and keys. Way back in the old days, I learned all this stuff while playing the sax (classical music). I had a teacher once that tried to teach us all the music theory (pretty darn boaring for a kid). At the time I did not think that all that boaring stuff would ever be usefull to me, so I did not pay attention. Now days with all the cool stuff I have, I'm left with very little knowlege of cords. It is my understanding that the circle of fiths is just about all you need to know when it comes to making cords. Am I mistaken. Does anyone have a good explination of it? Will knowing this info help me out one bit?

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www.besonic.com/kaboombahchuck

The circle of fifths will not give you information on chord structure but chord progression. Both bits of info are important in using chords. You'll need to know what notes are included in the requested chord then a working knowledge of the circle of fifths will give you a heads up on what chords will likely follow. Using the circle allows you to progress your way out of just about anything. I'm sure there are alot of good resources providing the information. I have one in booklet form that sells for $8.00 that gives the information on chord structure and chord progression. You can email me at swtjourney@aol.com if interested.

[This message has been edited by SusanRJones (edited 08-15-2002).]

Susan's right, Kaboomachuck, the circle of fifths doesn't help much with building chords, but moving along it can get you from one chord to any other without losing a "musical" feel.

Starting at C it moves in two directions, one (let's arbitrarily say clockwise) for the sharps and one (counter clockwise) for the flats.

To memorize them, I've always recommended the mnemonics:

Give Dad An Empty Bottle For Christmas, which stands for G,D,A,E,B,F#, and C#.

Fat Boys Eat And Doctors Go Crazy
which stands for F,Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,and Cb.

The notes start overlapping at B...B is Cb, F# is Gb, and C# is Db.

(BTW, these are mnemonics and not social, political, or religious statements. I believe they are well over a hundred years old.)

I never ever figured the circle of fifths though am working on it.
What I do have is a colour coded chart which gives me all major scales. All chords and type in all keys and the relitive minor key.
I am still developing it but have it to the stage it works for me stuck in front of my keyboard.
With this chart I can transpose both notes and chords ata glance.
A few people have test driven it. Some love it. Some hate it. A bit like the cirle of fifths i guess.
Regards.
Graham


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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/grahamhenderson_music.htm

Graham,

To be honest, Although I understand it, I've always thought the circle of fifths to be overrated. Some people swear by it, I found the mnemonics to be far more useful.

Perhaps it's because I learned to play guitar "by ear" before I ever started studying music theory, so I always related everything to the chords on the fingerboard rather than the notes on the staff.

I'm with you Mike.
When I got the keyboard after plunking around on guitar to little avail for many years I spent a lot of time finding my way around it. Much like I did with guitar.
Every now and then I would hit something that sounded good to me and when I looked up what I was actualy playing, it was suposed to be all wrong. Sure sounded nice to me though so I keep oj playing it.
Now I am sort of figuring if it sounds right it is right.
One of the first things I came acros was playing a third inversion E minor BEG, I hit the C# note and it sounded real pretty.
And I found C#m7-5.
I often use this now but I also found it also sondred nice to open with a C3m7 and then an E minor, sometimes slipping in a quick C# note to D before warbeling twix the D and B notes to end the phrase.
Works nice to my ear in slow bluesey stuff.
I guess the ear of the befolder is what is most important.
Thanks Mike. How's our songs doing?
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/grahamhenderson_music.htm

Thanks for everyones replies on this one. I guess I'll stick with the if it sounds good it is rule. I just don't know chords, or at least the naming of them. I'm doing all my own stuff, so I guess it don't matter much. I suppose it is time for me to go down to the music store and find a chord chart.

kaboom,

If you're looking to name the chords, you need to know your keys and scales pretty well. Try looking over the first two number system postings. They give a basic overview of scale, key, and chord structure.

Feel free to email me, or post here with any questions on the name of any specific chords

Chuck, for me, making or changing chords is an almost an infinite event. I do it based on the melody, and also try to go where it's not expected to go. The circle of fifths just seems too simple or normal to get all fuzzy about it, even if just practicing. It's fifths! So what? Once you do one, it's done! I don't really get what the hype is about that term. Maybe I need a better explaination of it all? I just go wherever the song is taking me! Circles, rectangles, triangles, even broken lines with a leap of faith to get back on track! Or maybe not get back! (cool ending)!

C to G,,,C# to G# yeah!!!!! whoppie!!! ????????

In need of more insight to this term of circle of fifths that is so enlightening.

John

John,
I'm with you on the chords being just support of the general idea or line of the song. I guess I thought I was maybe not going about it right, or there might be some magical bullet I did not know about. Making someting out to be more complicated than they need to be, is a hobbie of mine.

I've always thought the circle of fifths was for learning key signatures...just some input. I've found a good way to build and understand chords is to write out a scale and them build triads on each degree of the scale. From there you can work up to 7th chords, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths. Good luck!!!!
davey O.

[This message has been edited by 3daveyO3 (edited 08-28-2002).]

[This message has been edited by 3daveyO3 (edited 08-28-2002).]