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#359217 - 12/02/04 12:48 PM Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Cindy Miller Offline
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Cindy Miller  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Harlan, Iowa U.S.A.
Hanging By A Guitar String
Cindy Miller 2004 BMI

MALE VOCAL

VERSE
Lonely nights in numbered rooms
Sticky floors in cheap saloons
Hardly what Id call the comforts of home

This empty thing I call my life
Is getting old and so am I
If I didnt have regrets Id be alone

CHORUS
Im hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and a broken dream
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be if I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string

VERSE
Thoughts of where we might have been
Lace the songs I sing to them
Reminds em of the love they almost knew

They dont come to dance along
Theyre looking for a hurtin song
Night after night it aint been hard to do

CHORUS
CauseIm hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and a broken dream
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be if I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string

BRIDGE
Somewhere tonight inside a home
A man will hit his knees
Hell thank the Lord he has you
Just wish that man was me

CHORUS
Im hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and a broken dream
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be if I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string


[This message has been edited by TINK (edited 12-02-2004).]


The Artist formerly known as TINK ;\)

I write so I can breathe...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=29337
#359218 - 12/02/04 02:09 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,669
John Voorpostel Offline
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John Voorpostel  Offline
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Hiya Tinkapooh. Glad you got a new computer to play with. Hopefully you have to time to come play with us some again.


A few teenie suggestions for this haunting, self reflecting little number...

"numbered rooms" means nothing in context of your lyric.... hows about "countless" ??


I don't have your melody, but certainly "visually", starting the chorus with "hanging" is more powerful...and should stretch around your notes


And a (((bsh))) backatcha


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#359219 - 12/02/04 02:50 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D)  Offline
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Tampa, Florida since 1973
G'Mornin' {{{Tink}}}

OOO...a Nice Sad One..'tis Certainly The Season for That!

On first read that "..If I followed Through" hit me as a Suicidal Sorty Threat...since ya got "Hangin" as a Hook here... Second read I "got" it. maybe "I'D"..past tense..would make the thought clearer...dunno--

"Shape" insteada "lace" would give a bit of Alitteration..& require less Thinkin' Time to Translate..perhaps...

This sings in mah head as a Great Lounge Song...& should sell a Ton of Beers. & CDs too! "KUDOS" & Good Luck with it!

Big {{{Tink HUGZ!!!}}}
Stan

#359220 - 12/02/04 05:05 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Bobbie Gallup (D) Offline
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Bobbie Gallup (D)  Offline
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Posts: 11,806
Nashville, TN, USA
Howdy Mz Tink,

I picked up on the fact that the numbered rooms is referring to him staying in motels, at least I think so. This is another good downer. Not exactly what I enjoy listening to but I suspect there is a place for this. It is well written. Didn't see anything I would suggest changing.

Hugs,
Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
#359221 - 12/02/04 10:58 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Cindy Miller Offline
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Cindy Miller  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Harlan, Iowa U.S.A.
Hi Johnjohn!! Great to hear from you!

Numbered rooms refers to, as Bobbie pointed out, hotel rooms. Countless would work, but I kinda like numbered. Thanks so much for your thoughts!

{{{BSH}}}
[Linked Image] Tink


The Artist formerly known as TINK ;\)

I write so I can breathe...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=29337
#359222 - 12/02/04 11:07 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,834
Calvin Offline
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Calvin  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,834
Okeechobee, Florida U.S.A.
Hi ya Tink,

Nice happy tune here, ha.
Well done though.

Calvin

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewartmusic.htm

#359223 - 12/02/04 11:54 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Pete Larsen Offline
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Pete Larsen  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Lebanon ME U.S.A.
Tink,
Nice to see you back again. Like this one so much I'd like to write in a female vocal part and a duiet part if it's okay.
Pete


Here we are wracking our brains today
to write lyrics that rhyme
and if we succeed, they'll end up in time
as tommorrow's cliche's...
Pete
#359225 - 12/03/04 02:28 AM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Cindy Miller Offline
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Cindy Miller  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Harlan, Iowa U.S.A.
Evenin {{{STAN}}}!! Thanks for taking a look at this one. I hadn't been writing since my computer took it's final dump, but one day I was sorta thinking about hooks. Looking for something "eyecatching" or a twist on something. I thought of "hanging by a thread" and decided I'd switch out the thread for "guitar string" and make it about a guy who left behind the love of his life for a dream that didn't pan out and he's found all he ever wanted was love. That's where the "hanging..." came from. Sorry it made ya think of suicide, certainly wasn't my intent, but I see where you got it with the "followed through" line.

Initially I had "tempting thing" in the chorus instead of "haunting thing" and I had "haunt the songs I sing to them", but I didn't like "tempting", I liked "haunting" and figured I'd use "lace" insteada "Haunt" frankly because I couldn't think of a better word. [Linked Image] "Shape" may work nicely also. I thank you for that suggestion. And the "I'D" for the followed through line... maybe.

Anyway, I thank you kindly my friend. Just returned home from my 7th grader's school concert, looking forward to a long winter's nap. Sure wish it would snow! Have a good night!

{{{BIG HUGZ}}}
[Linked Image] Tink


The Artist formerly known as TINK ;\)

I write so I can breathe...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=29337
#359226 - 12/03/04 06:32 AM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,430
Anthony Torres Offline
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Anthony Torres  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,430
Belleville, Michigan, USA
Hey, Tink! Once I saw you critique my lyric here, I figured a new one of yours wouldn't be far behind. [Linked Image] Glad to have ya back. I'm feeling lazy, so lemme just lay this one out and see what there is to see....

VERSE
Lonely nights in numbered rooms
Sticky floors in cheap saloons
Hardly what Id call the comforts of home

This empty thing I call my life
Is getting old and so am I
If IT WASN'T FOR regrets Id be alone

Great start! [Linked Image] Paints a good picture with not many syllables. I have no problem with "numbered rooms." Good way to refer to motel rooms. I still have a little problem with that last line even after my change.

CHORUS
Im hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and a broken dream
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be if I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string

Nice. [Linked Image] This chorus seems to assume things that we don't yet know about this guy, though, which doesn't seem quite right.

VERSE
Thoughts of where we might have been
Lace the songs I sing to them
Reminds em of the love they almost knew

They dont come to dance along
Theyre looking for a hurtin song
Night after night it aint been hard to do

Very good. Nuthin' to suggest offhand. [Linked Image]

CHORUS

BRIDGE
Somewhere tonight inside a home
A man will hit his knees
Hell thank the Lord he has you
Just wish that man was me

Very nice too. I dunno about "inside a home", though. I don't think you need to say *that*, necessarily. People will still get the idea.

CHORUS

This is pretty solid, Tink. I'd say it's better than your typical lyric of 3 or 4 years ago, even. Nice job. [Linked Image]

Anthony


------------------
Anthony's BeSonic site-- Open 24 hours!

#359227 - 12/03/04 10:05 AM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,158
Diane Ewing Offline
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Diane Ewing  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,158
PA USA
Hi Tink,

Wow. I love this. I wouldn't be able to
improve it if I tried. "Numbered Rooms"
is a very unique way of saying hotel/motel.
The entire lyric is wonderful IMO.

Diane


Diane Ewing
#359228 - 12/03/04 11:06 AM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,690
Richard G Blum (D) Offline
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Richard G Blum (D)  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,690
Bronx, NY, United States
Hi Tink

very strong torch song

i might change this line

Where wed be if I followed through

to

if only we had followed through

so as not to conflict with a like line in the following verse

all this may have been said before, i'm too tired to read the other reviews....YEY for the new computer!!!! Great to have you back!

#359229 - 12/03/04 12:33 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Cindy Miller Offline
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Cindy Miller  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Harlan, Iowa U.S.A.
I know, I know Bobbie... I need to come out of the dark and lighten things up once in a while. [Linked Image] I promise I'll try one of these days. [Linked Image] Thanks for stopping in and offering your kind words. Hope all is well with you.

{{{Hugz to you, Bobbie!!}}}
[Linked Image]


The Artist formerly known as TINK ;\)

I write so I can breathe...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=29337
#359230 - 12/03/04 12:36 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Cindy Miller Offline
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Cindy Miller  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Harlan, Iowa U.S.A.
Mornin Calvin, thanks for lookin, likin and sayin so!

Hey Pete, I'm always interested in perpetuating creativity, so I'd love to hear what you have going through your head! Thanks so much!

Hi Sheila, Thank you for taking the time to comment. I used to post a whole lot more, and now that I have a new computer, I hope to get back to it. Thanks again!

Anthony, you're on deck for the next reply. [Linked Image]

I'll be back!
[Linked Image] Tink


The Artist formerly known as TINK ;\)

I write so I can breathe...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=29337
#359231 - 12/03/04 07:13 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Pete Larsen Offline
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Pete Larsen  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Lebanon ME U.S.A.
Tink,
Thank you kindly for the encouragement and hi-sign. Started working on it and my clumsy meat-hooks must have hit cntrl-alt-esc or something , the screen ended up split, I made the useless side go away , came back to the quoted portion of "Hanging by a Guitar string" and everything I'd done up to the bridge was gonzo, honest I'll try to start again tommorrow.
Hope this doesn't mean the muses are ticked... Are songwriters generally superstitious?
Pete


Here we are wracking our brains today
to write lyrics that rhyme
and if we succeed, they'll end up in time
as tommorrow's cliche's...
Pete
#359232 - 12/03/04 08:19 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 242
AutumnEyes Offline
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Nashville, TN
Hi Tink [Linked Image]....I'm new here, so I wanted to say hello [Linked Image]

This was beautiful....and there's really not much more I can say beyond that, except that I LOVED your bridge. VERY well done!!

Tina


A pessimist is someone who complains about the noise when opportunity knocks.

http://www.songu.com/yearbook/songs.aspx?id=1372

http://www.myspace.com/tinatufts
#359233 - 12/03/04 10:39 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,318
Tricia Baker Offline
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Tricia Baker  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,318
Greenwood, LA USA
Hi, Tink. I loved the numbered rooms line, too. I wish I had more time to read every response to this. I love that hook. Are you going to do an mp3 of this anytime soon? It's really cool. [Linked Image]

------------------
"Shoot for the moon, and even if you miss, you will land among the stars." -- Les Brown
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/triciabakermusic.htm


"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
#359234 - 12/04/04 04:46 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2004
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Pete Larsen Offline
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Pete Larsen  Offline
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Lebanon ME U.S.A.
Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TINK:
Hanging By A Guitar String
Cindy Miller 2004 BMI

MALE VOCAL

VERSE
Lonely nights in numbered rooms
Sticky floors in cheap saloons
Hardly what Id call the comforts of home

La Femme Vocalle
Crowded nights in countless rooms
stinky floors in cheap saloons
Hardly what I'd call a ree-alll home


This empty thing I call my life
Is getting old and so am I
If I didnt have regrets Id be alone

La Femme Vocalle
This empty thing I've called , my life
is getting old , and so am i
without regrets; i too , would be all alone

CHORUS (Duet, male lead)
Im (we're) hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and (a) broken dream(s)
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be if (we) I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string

VERSE (Male vocal)
Thoughts of where we might have been
Lace the songs I sing to them
Reminds em of the love they almost knew

(La Femme Vocalle)
Thoughts of where we might have been
pierce the songs I sing to them
'must remind 'em of a love they almost knew
(Male Vocal)
They dont come to dance along
Theyre looking for a hurtin song
Night after night it aint been hard to do

(LaFemme Vocalle)
They're not here to dance along
they wanna hear a hurtin' song,
Night after night, seems that's all I do
CHORUS (Duet , Female Lead /male harmony)
CauseIm(we're) hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and a broken dream
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be if(we) I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string

BRIDGE (Male)
Somewhere tonight inside a home
A man will hit his knees
Hell thank the Lord he has you
Just wish that man was me

(LaFemme)
Somewhere tonight inside a home
a wife rubs at her knees
She'll thank Thee Lord she has you
Only wish that gal were me
CHORUS (Duet crecendo ie. equal leads)
Im (we're) hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and a broken dream
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be (now) if(we) I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string

Last word(LaFemme: of course)
Honey, nice of you to drop on by
to dream dreams and pass the time of day
it was very nice ta see ya , sure enough

I won't forget you , have no fear
though I have a real life to live
I'll not forget the way you asked me for a kiss . Good night, fare well and I'll see you in the next life!
[This message has been edited by TINK (edited 12-02-2004).]
</font>


Here we are wracking our brains today
to write lyrics that rhyme
and if we succeed, they'll end up in time
as tommorrow's cliche's...
Pete
#359235 - 12/04/04 04:52 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Pete Larsen Offline
Serious Contributor
Pete Larsen  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Lebanon ME U.S.A.
Tink,
Almost forgot to say , hope you like it.
Pete


Here we are wracking our brains today
to write lyrics that rhyme
and if we succeed, they'll end up in time
as tommorrow's cliche's...
Pete
#359236 - 12/04/04 05:25 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 372
nitetrapper Offline
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nitetrapper  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 372
bessemer mi. usa
Hi Tink,This is some real good writing. And very easy to sing. Hope to see some more stuff from you soon Take care. Nite

------------------
Poems belong in bookstores. Lyrics belong in songs.


Poems belong in bookstores. Lyrics belong in songs.
#359237 - 12/04/04 05:32 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 392
Anne Meredith-Will Offline
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Anne Meredith-Will  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 392
Bemidji, MN US
Hi Tink - Your chorus here made my heart squeeze a little. For me, that's a sign that it's a really good song. Well written. I vote to keep the numbered rooms. Nice job. Anne


Anne M-W
#359238 - 12/04/04 10:50 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,357
Corey Offline
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Corey  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,357
Brandon, MS
This is excellent Tink. Up until the bridge, that is. Don't get me wrong, it's excellent too... but for another song. It's kinda a left turn from the subject matter and doesn't lead all that well back into the chorus. Other'n that, this is a gem!

CP

#359239 - 12/04/04 10:54 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,618
Graham Henderson (D) Offline
Graham Henderson (D)  Offline

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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,618
Esperance. West Australia
Numbered rooms works real good tink. So does most of it. With corey on the bridge.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

#359240 - 12/05/04 06:20 AM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,690
Richard G Blum (D) Offline
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Richard G Blum (D)  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,690
Bronx, NY, United States
late night/early morning bridge idea....

as i look over the crowd
everyone is teary eyed
my weary heart whines on
one more for the road, one more for the slide

#359241 - 12/05/04 07:02 AM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,177
Shayne Vaughan Offline
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Shayne Vaughan  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,177
Edmonton, KY USA
Hi Tink!
I'd reverse the first two sections to put the hotel room reference closer to the title line:

This empty thing I call my life
Is getting old and so am I
If I didnt have regrets Id be alone

Lonely nights in numbered rooms
Sticky floors in cheap saloons
Hardly what Id call the comforts of home

CHORUS
Im hanging by a guitar string
Chasing time and a broken dream
Wondering if you wonder, too
Where wed be if I followed through
Your memory is a haunting thing
When Im hanging by a guitar string


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http://shayneman.proboards19.com/

#359242 - 12/05/04 01:21 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,372
Bob Young (D) Offline
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Bob Young (D)  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,372
chicago il usa
Hey, Blondie !

Sorry it took so long to get to this...
I'm not writing much lately, so I'm not comfortable with critiquing..but..this ones esay so...

This is lovely and sad...

I'm with Graham and Corey..

I don't think the bridge is up to the rest of it..

Corey may be right..it could be ethat the bridge is great too, but in the wrong song.

I'd be excising it completely and doing a total rewrite.(just the bridge)

Really good stuff, Tinkala.....

Bob

#359243 - 12/05/04 03:00 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Cindy Miller Offline
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Cindy Miller  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Harlan, Iowa U.S.A.
Good mornin all! Wow, thanks for all the great feedback!!

Hi Anth, I like the fix for the last line in the first verse, think I'll take it. And I'm glad to hear you are on board with "numbered rooms". The bridge reference to "inside a home" is trying to drive home the idea that the singer doesn't have a home, but as I've read this morning, the bridge needs some work. Thank you for stoppin by and offering your help. I always appreciate it!!

Diane, thanks so much for the "wow", I'll take one of those any day!! It's especially nice since it's the first thing I've written in months. [Linked Image]

Hey Ritt!! You have no idea how nice it is to have this new Dell! It's awesome!! Thanks for the welcome back. Your fix for the "followed through" line is one I will surely consider. Thanks so much!!

Hey there Pete!! I read your duet-very nicely done!! reminds me of Sheryl Crow and Kid Rock's "Picture". Thank you, I really take it as a compliment that something I've written has inspired another writer - and it turned out GREAT! Thank you!!!

Hello Tina! Very nice to meet you and I promise to take a look at your stuff! I'm so happy you liked this and it's nice to get a thumbs up on the bridge given some of the other's responses to it. I appreciate your looking, likin and sayin so!!

Tricia, so nice to hear from you! I'm sorry to say I don't have any music for this. I don't do music and I'm only just getting back into the writing thing. With the new computer, I hope to be doing more, which will hopefully mean music will follow. thanks so much!!

Hi Nite! I'm happy to hear this was easy to sing. I actually "sing" the songs as they write them. It helps me with the metering aspect. I hope you get to see more stuff from me soon, too! [Linked Image] That would mean the muse has returned. Thanks again.

I'll take "heartsqueezin" in a critique ANY day!! I am also very happy to get another thumbs up on the "numbered rooms". Thanks girlfriend!!

COREY!!!!!!!!! Dammit, I hate when you're right!!! I would have NEVER given it a second thought until you raised the ole eyebrow. Ya know what, finding something like that is a true sign of a GREAT writer and that is definitely what you have become (or were born to be), so I can't help but know you and Graham and Bob are right on the money... dammit! [Linked Image] But, thanks, it's what I need to know! Thanks for the help and kind words.

Graham, yep, you are correct, my downunder wonder! Thanks, buddy!

Ritt, my friend, thanks for the thoughts, it sparkes some of my own... how about:

One last song at closing time
a bandaid for broken hearts
they'll all return to empty homes
at least I have my guitar

??

Shayne, it's so nice to see you! And you know what, You could be right about flip flopping the first two stanzas. It does set the chorus up nicely. Thanks so much!!

Bob, do not ever apologize (even though I'm been waiting anxiously to see if you'd stop by. [Linked Image] ) Late from you is all the sweeter... he who stops by last, stays longer! It's the law! [Linked Image] You, Corey, and Graham are totally right! And I'm a workin on it!

Thanks again y'all, I really appreciate everyone who took the time to improve my lyric. You guys are the best!

[Linked Image] Tinkala Z. (Bob's first Bongette)





[This message has been edited by TINK (edited 12-05-2004).]


The Artist formerly known as TINK ;\)

I write so I can breathe...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=29337
#359244 - 12/05/04 03:18 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,690
Richard G Blum (D) Offline
Top 10 Poster
Richard G Blum (D)  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,690
Bronx, NY, United States
ouch O bongette

One last song at closing time
a bandaid for broken hearts
they'll all return to empty homes
at least I have my guitar

i don't think you should chastise the audience....

One last song at closing time
a bandaid for broken hearts
some will heal nicely
some will never leave my guitar

???????

#359245 - 12/06/04 07:37 PM Re: Hanging By A Guitar String  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Pete Larsen Offline
Serious Contributor
Pete Larsen  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,537
Lebanon ME U.S.A.
Thanks , Tink,
Carefull with them kudoses , though , I'm apt to get a swell head, oops ...too late lol.
Pete


Here we are wracking our brains today
to write lyrics that rhyme
and if we succeed, they'll end up in time
as tommorrow's cliche's...
Pete

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