Who's Online Now
10 members (Fdemetrio, VNORTH2, Gary E. Andrews, Perry Neal Crawford, couchgrouch, Sunset Poet, Guy E. Trepanier, bennash, Bill Draper, David Gill), 4,088 guests, and 270 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
What's Going On
Does Billy Joel belong in top 10?
by Fdemetrio - 03/28/24 11:10 PM
It Is Done
by Sunset Poet - 03/28/24 07:44 PM
Music Industry Summit, Athens Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/28/24 06:14 PM
Can you save me from me
by VNORTH2 - 03/28/24 03:11 PM
As human as yo
by ckiphen - 03/28/24 09:55 AM
Fox News Reports Stunning Archeological Discovery.
by couchgrouch - 03/27/24 08:02 PM
Wasting My Time
by David Gill - 03/27/24 07:42 AM
Song available
by JAPOV - 03/26/24 03:38 PM
YELLIN AT CLOUDS
by David Gill - 03/26/24 03:20 PM
"Reliving" the great Lou Rawls!
by Brian Austin Whitney - 03/26/24 01:49 PM
::: The Best In My Life :::
by Bill Draper - 03/26/24 01:32 PM
The show must go on
by ckiphen - 03/26/24 09:06 AM
NYC Motel 1972
by rpirone - 03/26/24 12:43 AM
usic Industry Summitt
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 11:32 PM
The Rant Arena
by JAPOV - 03/25/24 07:39 PM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Lancaster Festival, Lancaster, Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 10:51 AM
Wasting my time
by Rob B. - 03/25/24 03:45 AM
Tom Waits.. What's he building
by Fdemetrio - 03/25/24 12:09 AM
Rick Beato, bad lyrics
by Fdemetrio - 03/24/24 11:23 PM
Inspirational Videos Post Them Here
by Sunset Poet - 03/24/24 11:27 AM
Used to take a Genius to Mix
by Fdemetrio - 03/23/24 11:00 AM
"Broken Places"
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/22/24 07:45 PM
All You Are Is A Lie
by Sunset Poet - 03/22/24 06:55 PM
Pour Choices
by Gavin Sinclair - 03/22/24 05:29 PM
Billy's 30 year overdue song.
by Fdemetrio - 03/22/24 01:30 PM
Make my dreams come true
by ckiphen - 03/22/24 10:51 AM
Top Posters
Calvin 19,857
Travis david 12,264
Kevin Emmrich 10,941
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 9,003
glynda 8,683
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
couchgrouch 8,160
Colin Ward 7,911
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,916
Mark Kaufman 6,589
ben willis 6,114
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Fdemetrio 4,990
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,670
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,389
Roy Cooper 4,271
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,195
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,171
MFB III 4,143
Sunset Poet 4,126
nightengale 4,096
E Swartz 3,985
JAPOV 3,973
beechnut79 3,878
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,845
Dan Sullivan 3,710
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Nigel Quin 2,891
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
MidniteBob 2,761
Nelson 2,616
Tom Tracy 2,558
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,246
Wendy D 2,235
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
maccharles 2,134
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,041
DukeWill 2,002
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,652
Noel Downs 1,633
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
GocartMoz 1,559
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,481
Tom Franz 1,473
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,409
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
Deej56 1,385
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,294
lane1777 1,280
Gerry 1,280
DakLander 1,265
IronKnee 1,262
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,235
Glen King 1,214
VNORTH2 1,212
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,174
Diane Ewing 1,162
ckiphen 1,120
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
9ne 1,035
David Gill 1,032
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
90 dB 964
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
ant 798
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
bennash 763
teletwang 762
Andy K 750
Andy Kemp 749
tbryson 737
Jackie444 731
Irwin 720
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Pat Hardy 692
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Moosesong 668
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
R&M 614
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 590
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 513
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
Rob L 439
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Alek 386
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Ann_F 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
ddreuter 371
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Rob B. 364
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Z - man 350
JamesDF5 348
John K 348
Jaden 344
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 294
markus-ky 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
Char 286
ktunes 285
Top Likes Received
JAPOV 86
VNORTH2 45
bennash 38
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#292977 11/10/02 02:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
I have been struggling with this one for months...so would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions you might have. One of the things I am not sure about is the title..so am open to your thoughts on that. My choices were: what is below Three Stones and Greatness; Gravestones and Greatness; and Monuments and Sentiments. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Monuments And Sentiments
© 2002 Lyrics by Bobbie Gallup ASCAP

Just an hour out of Hartford
Is a small town by the sea
Where I visited an old graveyard
And the tomb of Phineas T.

Now the circus king is resting
'Neath a befitting monolith
His headstone's glitzy and it's gaudy
Like his 'greatest show on earth'

CHORUS:
Monuments and sentiments
When we pass on...what do we leave
Are words etched in marble
To be our lasting legacy
Is the size of the stone
How we want our greatness to be measured
Will the words written there
Reflect a lifetime to be treasured
In monuments and sentiments

Another curious marker
Lies just a few yards away
It's a tribute to Tom Thumb
Whose life was always on display

It's a twenty-foot high tower
And the statue it contains
Is a life-sized replica
Of his tiny three-foot frame

CHORUS: repeat

A third stone was small and simple
I nearly overlooked it in the weeds
Struck by the lack of tribute to the woman
Whose words had meant so much to me

Miss Fanny Jane Crosby
Despite being blinded at birth
Wrote over five thousand
Of the most beloved hymns on earth

CHORUS: repeat

TAG:
Monuments and sentiments
Three lives lived their own way
Monuments and sentiments
Each had their final say


[This message has been edited by Bobbie Gallup (edited 11-13-2002).]


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 180
E
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
E
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 180
HIya Bobbie,

Puts me in mind of " Osymandeous" (sp?)

How about " Lives Carved in Stone"?

Amazing about that woman's output, being blind.

regards

Peter Taos NM

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
"
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
"
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
G'mornin' NashvilLady!

"SIZE DOESN'T MATTER" immediately Comes to Mind...heh-heh...

OK, but Seriously Now, Um, "FINAL SAY" might be an even Better Title. (Doesn't totally DWELL on the Stones...)

Fascinatin' Historical Visit here...

"KUDOS" for the Enlighenment.

Big Weekend Hug,
Stan

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 10,330
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 10,330
Hi, Bobbie!
Well, this song had me googling all over the net. Fanny's story is a fascinating one. One source said she wrote over 8K hymns. I found a site that listed her pseudonymns. The hymnal publisher didn't want everyone to know that she was really the main lyricist (it may have said only but I can't remember for sure.)

* Adrienne, Cora
* Alstyne, Fannie Jane
* Andrews, A. E.
* Apple, James
* Armstrong, Alice
* Atherton, Rose
* Bell, Carrie
* Bethune, Catherine
* Black, James
* Black, James L.
* Black, James M.
* Blair, Henrietta
* Booth, Florence
* Bruce, Charles
* Bruce, Robert
* Burns, Charles
* Carlston, Mary
* Carlton, Leah
* Church, Fannie
* Craddock, Eleanor
* Culyer, Lyman G.
* Dale, Ella
* Dayton, Flora
* D. D.
* D. D. R.
* Dykes, Ryan A.
* Dykes, Rian A.
* Eliot, James
* Edmonds, Lizzie
* Edwards, Lizzie
* F. A. N.
* F. J. C.
* F. J. V. A.
* Fannie
* Fanny
* Forrest, Mrs. Edna
* Frances, Carrie
* Frances, Grace J.
* Frances, Lillian G.
* Frances, S. Trevor
* Frances, Victoria
* Garnet, Jenny
* Glen, Jenie
* Gould, Frank
* Grinley, Mrs. Kate
* G. W. W.
* Harmon, Ruth
* Hawthorn, Carrie
* Hope, Frances
* Hops, Frances
* James, Annie
* James, Mary
* James, Sarah
* J. F. O.
* J. W. W.
* Judson, Myra
* Lankton, Martha
* Lincoln, H. N.
* Lindsay, W. Robert
* L. L. A.
* Lowry, Minnie B.
* Marion, Maude
* Martin, S
* Martin, Sallie
* Martin, Sam
* Miller, Laura
* Montieth, A
* Montieth, Alice
* Park, Edna L.
* Prentice, Mrs. L.C.
* Smiling, Mrs. Kate
* Smith, Sallie A.
* Smith, Sallie E.
* Smith, Sally
* Smith, Sam
* Sterling, J. L.
* Sterling, Julia
* Sterling, Ryan
* Sterling, Victoria
* Stewart, Victoria
* Taylor, Ida Scott
* The Children’s Friend
* Tilden, Louise W.
* Tilden, Mary
* V., Jenny
* Van A., Mrs.
* Van Alstyne, Fannie
* Van Alstyne, Fannie Jane
* Van Alstyne, Mrs.
* Van Alstyne, Mrs. Alexander
* Viola
* Wallace, Zemira
* Wilson, Carrie
* Wilson, Mrs. C. M.
* ## [yes, she sometimes used these marks instead of a name!]
* ###
* ‘*’
* ***


I read through some of her hymns and listened to the midi files . A lot of really beautiful hymns. No wonder she impressed you.

I didn't know any of them. We have a lot of Protestant hymns in our Catholic hymnals, but so far I haven't found any of Fanny's. Too bad. Maybe the words and music were too uplifting for our hymnals, LOL. I would have loved to sing some of her hymns in church.

After reading her story, I found that the simple headstone wasn't because she was overlooked and underappreciated, it was that way at her own request. I was wondering if you could work her sweet humility in and provide even more contrast to the oposite traits of the Barnum and Tom Thumb.

Maybe "The headstone that I liked the best, kept simple at her own request" sort of thing.

Thank you for posting this. Learning about Fanny and her calling has enriched and inspired me.

Sis


Please visit my facebook EZ3D PopUps for free papercraft templates. Great for beginners of all ages.

Favorite Sites:
http://facebook.com/EZ3DPopUps
http://ez3dpopups.blogspot.com/
http://harrietschock.com
http://jpfolks.com
http://phillipmartin.com


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,037
Likes: 1
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,037
Likes: 1
Hey Bobbie
I like Monuments & Sentiments and I like Peter's LIVES CARVED IN STONE. I would add to the end of the chorus -

CHORUS:
Monuments and sentiments
When we pass on...what do we leave
Are words etched in marble
To be our lasting legacy
Is the size of the stone
How we want our greatness to be measured
Will the words written there
Reflect a lifetime to be treasured
MONUMENTS AND SENTIMENTS
LIVES CARVED IN STONE

Just a thought
Joanne

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Peter,

Thank you for taking time to check this one out. I had read an article about Fanny Crosby and that was what really got me thinking about this. It was humbling to realize what she accomplished during her lifetime, despite what most of us would consider a debilitating handicap...especially back at a time when there were no special services for the handicapped. I have to admit you lost me on the Ozymandeous thing. Wasn't sure if you were after Amadeus or not? Will think more on your suggestion. Still torn on the title. Appreciate the comments.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Noel,

I honestly wasn't trying to imply with this that we should judge a person's greatness but rather just the opposite. Though the first two left behind monuments they considered fitting..so did Fanny. Hers was, as Jean says later on, just as she wanted it...simple. I will certainly consider changing the chorus after V3. Thanks so much for checking this one out.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Howdy Stan,

Why doesn't your suggestion surprise me? [Linked Image] You actually are hitting on the idea I was trying to get at here, that the size of the stone doesn't matter...but was trying to avoid putting the gravestones in the title. Not sure quite why. Thanks for the time and thoughts here.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,005
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,005
Hi Bobbie,

Thanks for the inspiration.
I followed Jean's lead and went Googling.

These two lines of Fanny's !!!!

And the dew drop came at the twilight's close
To sleep on the heart of the mountain rose;

Doesn't get any better than that!

------------------
Terry

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Jean,

I am so glad you were inspired by my humble tribute to a woman who has always fascinated me. I had read an article about her life in our little hometown weekly paper and started doing more research. I had grown up on her hymns but had no clue just how prolific she truly was. I think her life is worthy of a movie IMO...one of those Hallmark types.

I REALLY like your suggestion for the verses on Fannie. I will try to rework those in there. I was trying to point out the contrast between the greatness of what she left behind compared to the other two, not that the other two were bad people in any way. It is just that we all leave behind some legacy..and hers just amazed me. Not sure that came through as well as it might have. She lived and died a humble woman, true to her calling. She was an inspiration to me also.

Thanks for your kind comments on this. Hope you find more songs of hers you want to sing.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Joanne,

Thank you so much for the read and remarks on this. I know this one still has some work left to be done..and I will certainly put your thoughts into the rewrite column. Some songs come easily...and some, like this one, I just seem to agonize over.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 10,330
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 10,330
Bobbie, I had a thought. I wonder if you could get lines from her hymns that could be worked into the chorus at the end (if you were thinking of a changed chorus for the last one) or as an introduction to the song. Or even as an outro. Somewhere, anyway. Just a thought.

JeanB


Please visit my facebook EZ3D PopUps for free papercraft templates. Great for beginners of all ages.

Favorite Sites:
http://facebook.com/EZ3DPopUps
http://ez3dpopups.blogspot.com/
http://harrietschock.com
http://jpfolks.com
http://phillipmartin.com


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Tall One,

I am glad you also went to read up on Fannie. She has always been someone I admired, but I am now thinking that she is deserving of a greater tribute than my humble song could ever become. She was one amazing woman.

Thanks so much.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,704
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,704
Bobbie,
For some reason, the title "Three Stones and Greatness" made me think of David and Goliath.
I like the title "Monuments and sentiments" and Joanne had a good idea for the chorus. I think it's important that you stress the magnitude of her legacy compared to the paucity of her marker, unless your song is really about the skewed values that people have, and the fact that we often mythologize show biz figures and ignore actual acheivement. If the latter is the case, then you should stress the contrast in the size of the markers compared to what you perceive as valuable.
Miss fanny Jane probably deserves her own song (at least!)
Kurt

Ozymandias
I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed,
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
-Percy Bysshe Shelley 1792-1822

------------------


http://kurtfortmeyer.home.att.net

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,528
B
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
B
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,528
Hey there Bobbie. I LOVE the hook Monuments and Sentiments......i place BIG vote for that. And I too really like Joanne's idea for the chorus. I really can't see anything worth changing. But i would use that hook; think it's perfect for the song.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Jean,

As I was writing this, I was actually thinking of using some musical bridges of some of her hymns that people might recognize...like perhaps Blessed Assurance. I did discover that someone has already produced a video on her life. I would love to see it. She is certainly a worthy subject for historical and Christian biographical documentation. I am going to take another look at that last chorus, however and see if I can do what you are suggesting. In this case, I think the extra attention would be warranted. Thanks again for the great idea.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,851
C
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
C
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,851
Hi Bobbie,
Thanks for,giving us imformation,on such a wonderful ,and talented,lady.I as others,
it seems,had never heard of her.I will
definately,do some research.........
Jean gave you good advice,on adding some of her hymns as bridges,and also a 2nd ch. change This would be a wonderful,trbute to her,and hopefully,more people,will be able to know about her.Fanny would certainly be
an inspiration to all of us....
I like Monuments And Sentiments,for the title

God bless
ClaireJeanne
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/claireandrick.htm


[This message has been edited by clairejeanne (edited 11-10-2002).]

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Wow, Kurt, thank you for sharing the Ozymandias poem with me. I don't know how I missed that one, because I love Shelley. What a superb poet he was..and this one is no exception. I don't think I ever read it before, or if I did, it somehow didn't stick with me...but I can certainly see why Peter said this song made him think of that poem.

I agree that Fanny Crosby does indeed deserve her own song. I will probably end up writing one, but first I have to finish a short story about her life. I was actually thinking of both of the issues you mention in your post..but primarily the latter...in that I feel her legacy has changed so many lives for the better. In no way am I intending to disparage Barnum's contribution to making people laugh and smile with his circus. That is comparing two things which are hardly on the same level, at least in my humble opinion. Fanny's marker is much like the woman herself...simple and dignified. I am seeing a definite trend here with the Monuments and Sentiments title. Thank you so very much for sharing the poem...and your insights.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Howdy Blake,

Ok..'nuther vote for Monuments and Sentiments. I think it has a good ring to it. Will see if I can work it back into the chorus a second time. Appreciate hearing from you on this one. Will take a look at your latest too.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,005
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,005
Hi Bobbie,

Re. your comment :
". . . I am now thinking that she is deserving of a greater tribute than my humble song could ever become."

Don't think of this song as the tribute you
know she deserves because your core theme is itself too well-rooted and deserving to have dissipate — too big to share in this regard.

And so, perhaps resist the temptation to
include more here on her behalf,
but rather write a totally separate song
to venerate her.

Probably a way easier task as a separate piece in the end; no shortage of material
with her work to draw from.

TT

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
C
Top 25 Poster
Online Content
Top 25 Poster
C
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
Bobbie, this is an unusual topic. still it has some awkward phrases like "befitting monolith" and "life-sized replica" I think might be hard to sing to a decent melody. and monolith/earth is a very weak rhyme. so is leave/legacy. it also seems like it needs one good line or image to set it on fire. and the tag says "three stones and greatness, each lived in their own way". the lyric says why Fanny was great but why were PT and Tom great? and how did they live "in their own way"? the lyric doesn't say. jmo as always. [Linked Image]


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi ClaireJeanne,

Like many others, I was not aware of the scope of impact Fanny had on much of the music I grew up on in church until a few years ago. I visited these gravesites while in CT searching for some of the gravesites of some of my own family ancestors. I read an article about Fanny a few months ago and it brought back some vivid memories and prompted the start of this song which has been one of those that has not come easily. I am still considering this a work in progress, but am now thinking to do a whole song on her life and legacy instead of changing this one to be solely about her. Thank you so much for reading this and sharing your thoughts. She was truly blessed and inspired...well worth learning more about her life.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Terry,

You are right about not considering this song to be a tribute to Fanny. That would fragment the purpose and theme of this one. I plan to write a separate one for her. However, just last night, I was asked by one of the editors of the upcoming Chicken Soup for the Music Lovers Soul to compose a short story about Fanny's life for possible inclusion in the book...so will pursue that avenue first. Fanny is certainly an overlooked and underrecognized source of inspiration for many...and any small way I can bring her worth and works to the attention of interested individuals is both a humbling and exciting opportunity. To me..she is one of the most amazing women I wish I had the pleasure of meeting.

Thanks again,
Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,027
S
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
S
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,027
Bobbie,

Very nice work on this one. The visuals, the theme, and the execution are all well done.

Keep writing.

Skip

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 395
H
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 395
Hiya Bobbie - how's things at the homestead? [Linked Image] We'll be looking forward to the next Kentucky soiree!

If there is any trouble with this lyric, I think it's actually in the chorus.

Monuments and sentiments
When we pass on...what do we leave
Are words etched in marble
To be our lasting legacy
Is the size of the stone
How we want our greatness to be measured
Will the words written there
Reflect a lifetime to be treasured


It's a good enough summary of the idea, but it feels a little too literal for me. There's almost too much information. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of something like:

"Monuments and sentiments
Etched in a marble legacy"

...for example. I guess what I'm trying to say is it feels like you're trying to cover too much ground in the chorus. I think the chorus needs to be simplified a bit to really 'grab'.

hobes


hobes

"Every time I sit down to write a lyric, when I stand up I feel three pounds lighter" - Alan Jay Lerner
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Couch,

Appreciate you taking time to check this one over. Yes, this is sort of a different topic for a song, but you know how that muse goes at times. You write what she gives you to write. As I indicated, this one is definitely still a work in progress and there are several places I am still not really satisfied with yet. Am getting some good suggestions, however. I agree with you on the words you picked out there and will keep working on those...so if you have any recommendations for replacements, I am listening. However, I can live with the rhymes that bothered you. I think the "th" end of both monoliTH and earTH will carry that with the right performer/music as will the long ee sounds in both legaCY and leave.

I also believe most folks are already familiar with the lives of both Barnum and Tom Thumb. Their stories (both real and exaggerated) have been told over and over as part of history. I know most folks are not familiar with the accomplishments of Fanny Crosby, however, so I am trying to bring that out a bit in the lyric. I didn't think the other two needed a lot of introduction in that manner. The song isn't really about that anyway..so a lot of detail on their lives would only derail this IMO. If people don't know who PT Barnum and Tom Thumb were, then this song probably won't appeal to them anyway.

Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Thanks so much, Skip. I really do appreciate the compliments.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Noel,

I think you are right. Never quite made the connection before but the concept is somewhat akin to what I wrote about in another recent song...that a strong person is not afraid to show tenderness to others. Probably much the same as a person who truly knows what they have accomplished in life has no need to have the biggest monument after death.

Thanks again.
Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
C
Top 25 Poster
Online Content
Top 25 Poster
C
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
hey Bobbie. to me, those rhymes are weak any way you reason it but that's your call. and I wouldn't introduce T. Thumb as part of a "legacy of greatness" without saying what made him great. a basic principle of storytelling is if a character is worth mentioning, he's worth describing, even in a small way. otherwise, he just takes up space. I don't know much about PT and nothing about the other two but the lyric gives me no reason to care, nothing is said about them as people. again, to me...a person unfamiliar won't be drawn to the song because there's little TO draw them, and someone who does know those three people will be bored because no detail of interest is told much beyond that they're dead. the question is, why did you choose to write about these three people? your answer to that should be in the lyric. the Fanny character is best described there. perhaps you should concentrate on her. I can't think of any different phrases for those lines. the lyric is far afield of my tastes, haha. I would never use the word "monolith" though in any lyric. as always...jmo... [Linked Image]


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Howdy Hobes,

Well, at least the old homestead is still here after the devastating tornados that ripped up TN last night. They were all around us, but we only had high winds and rain. If you DO go to Kentucky...LOL ya'all are gonna miss the rest of us cause we will be in Tennessee...just a bit to the south. [Linked Image] We DO hope you will make it this year!

I do appreciate your insights on the chorus here..and will certainly give that some consideration. I like the line you are suggesting though I am not sure it works with the preceding one too well unless you are only referring to the sentiments being etched. Will take a bit more pondering on my part I guess. [Linked Image] Think this is the first time I've ever been accused of being 'too literal' ..usually just the opposite. [Linked Image] Always enjoy it when you have time to check my writing out. You make me think....dangerous but essential! Thanks much!

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Howdy Couch,

This song is not actually saying that any of these people were great. I am making the assumption here, possibly erroneously, that people would know who PT Barnum and Tom Thumb were. By contrast, I sincerely doubt that many folks would know who Fanny Crosby was or what she did in her lifetime. I am merely asking questions in the chorus regarding why people leave behind what they do..and how we all wish to be remembered. I am leaving the criteria for greatness up to the reader/listener to judge. To go into depth on any one of these individuals would fragment the intention of the lyric. The detail you are talking about is not about their lives or their death but differences between the graves. I wrote about these three because they are all buried in the same graveyard...in close proximity, and the graves struck me as rather revealing about the priorities that each of them had. That is all that was intended, and that is in the lyric. Obviously a few folks were not totally bored with this and it sufficiently piqued their interest that they went to considerable effort to learn more about Fanny Crosby. That makes me very happy..and far less concerned about anyone who might have stopped reading out of boredom. Having been a teacher, I am fully aware that it really isn't possible to please or even teach everyone. [Linked Image] Wish it were so, but I am afraid I don't have the key that will open a locked mind. LOL

I understood from your first post that you didn't approve of some of the rhymes. [Linked Image] As you say, we each see things our own way. I like pushing the envelop sometimes...just like you do only in different ways. I'm still thinking on replacements for some of the words in this one, however...so changes will eventually happen. Like I said, this is one I struggled with for months...and it ain't over yet.

BTW...if you really don't know who Tom Thumb was, he was one of PT Barnum's circus attractions. Here is a bit of info about him, just in case you are honestly curious. "Tom Thumb (1838-83) was an American entertainer, whose original name was Charles Sherwood Stratton, b. Bridgeport, Conn. His career as General Tom Thumb began in 1842, (he was four) when the showman P. T. Barnum gave him the title and arranged with the child's parents for his exhibition as a midget. His height then was less than 2 ft (61 cm), and at no time did it exceed 33 in. (84 cm). Barnum aroused the intense curiosity of people throughout the world by consummately skillful publicity and profitably displayed the general in many countries, bringing Tom Thumb wealth and fame. At the age of 10 the general had already been the guest of President Polk, Queen Victoria, Isabella of Spain, and King Louis Philippe of France. His courtship of Lavinia Warren, a dwarf, led to a fashionable wedding in New York's Grace Church in 1863. In the course of their wedding trip President Lincoln received them at the White House. Thumb and his wife continued to entertain audiences in the United States and abroad until their retirement in 1882. He died at the age of 45, and Mrs. Tom Thumb died at 77." Clearly, he was a product of a much different era...but just about everyone knew who he was back then. It's not hard to figure out why he would have wanted his tombstone to be a 20 ft tower.

Not surprised that this song isn't to your taste. LOL It doesn't have any moons, losers or misfits in it. [Linked Image] Thanks again.

Bobbie



[This message has been edited by Bobbie Gallup (edited 11-11-2002).]


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
C
Top 25 Poster
Online Content
Top 25 Poster
C
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
Bobbie, the lyric's not to my taste because like many of dawg's lyrics it has a far out theme that's poorly developed and likely will never be made into a song. a brief look at my work will show that while some of my lyrics deal with losers, many don't...such as the two I posted yesterday. and your rhymes don't "push the envelope". something that expands a genre does that. those just look like the writer couldn't skillfully finish his lines. there was no need to make derogatory comments about my material to answer my honest critiques of this at all, whether or not a smiley face was patched on there.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi again Couch,

Thanks so much. My comments were certainly not derogatory in any manner, merely a jesting reflection of my own honest perspective on the general content of much of your work. You are most welcome to offer your insights on my work at any time. I am always searching for ways to improve what I have written, which is my sole reason for posting here. If your "fixes" feel like they strengthen the writing, they will certainly be incorporated. I do appreciate the time and effort anyone makes when they read and offer suggestions for my writing.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
C
Top 25 Poster
Online Content
Top 25 Poster
C
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,160
Likes: 5
Bobbie, I think a closer look at my material will show that there's more to it than moons and misfits. if you can show me a recent moon reference, I'd be happy to see it. Peace to the Patient Heart, Believe the Rainbow, Find the Farthest River, Quiet Sacrifices, Closer, the Song That Got Away, One Can Only Hope, The Ghost of God, The Sun I Never Had, She Moves Through the Mist, Bomber Jacket and Let the Leaves Go Their Way are some of my recent lyrics. I don't think they match your assessment. however, I am a folk writer and for centuries poor folk writers have been writing about...poor folks. which I'll continue to do.

I was way off hassling you the 2nd time about your rhymes. I should've pointed them out and let it drop. and you should definitely take what criticism you can use and disgard the rest. that's what I do and it's what everyone should do.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
J
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
J
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
You've managed to find a good song in something no one else thought of. Very clever and well written.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
J
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
J
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
Missed your request about the title until I re-read the posting.

"Phineas, Tom & Fanny Jane"

For what it's worth, whenever I've found myself wondering about a title it's been because my hook wasn't quite right and not repeated enough. Just a thought.

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 407
V
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
V
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 407
Bobbie

Seems to me that this is a very simple but profound message sitting inside your words. Answering the question of how we measure greatness by making us think about Fanny was so clever.

The only thing I can comment on is you seem to introduce "the third stone" as if I was aware of its presence earlier in the lyric. The title would have to be "Three Stones And Greatness" for it to fit.

There is a certain balance to the song in thought if you know what I mean.

Just some thoughts.

Steven

[This message has been edited by VNORTH (edited 11-12-2002).]

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,654
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,654
Bobbie,

Hooo boy am I late on this one! Just wanted to say it was an interesting read. For what it`s worth, I hadn`t a clue who Fanny was, or what she accomplished in life. Learn something new every day! Did know Tom T and P.T. though. I like Monuments and Sentiments...but what the heck do I know! Dano. [Linked Image]

------------------
www.angelfire.com/music3/danolyrics

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi James,

I certainly appreciate your kind thoughts and excellent suggetions for this song. The title you offer is one I had not considered so I am adding that to the pot of potential titles. [Linked Image] It's looking fairly strong, however, for Monuments and Sentiments, with some fixes to the chorus. In the caes of this song, I will probably just drop the tag altogether since it introduces another competing hook and is not needed IMO. The Phineas, Tom and Fanny Jane idea does have a really nice sound to it, however. Thank you so much!

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi Steven,

Thank you so much for the read and remarks on this lyric. I am pleased you figured out what I was endeavoring to do here. Your call on introducing "the third stone" was right on target. That is something I hadn't even noticed. I think changing that to "A third stone" might ameliorate the problem...at least I hope so. That way the reader wouldn't necessarily be expected to know that the third stone was coming. I am pleased you feel the song is balanced. I am hoping that if I eliminate the tag and fix up the chorus a bit...add another repeat of the hook there, it will work better. Appreciate your thoughts and suggestions for this. Some songs come easily...this one didn't. Thanks again.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Howdy Dano,

You are welcome at the party anytime, late or not. We are just glad to see you back here these days. Missed you. I was fairly sure most folks wouldn't know who Fanny Crosby was...just glad to share that tiny piece of information about one amazing woman. Just reading her bio to get more info about her just makes me more in awe of her powerful positive spirit as well as her awesome accomplishments. I am also leaning towards the Monuments and Sentiments title...but James also had a good idea. Thanks again.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
J
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
J
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
Well now I feel like defending the title idea. To me a title is about getting a singer or publisher or record guy to want to hear the song. I don't know who'd want to hear "Monuments & Sentiments."

Either have a universal appeal or an attention-getter. "Phineas, Tom & Fanny Jane" wouldn't you want to hear that? And remember it?

The more I think of it, Monuments & Sentiments is too sappy. To me what makes your song so fresh and appealing is the fact that you happened on a cemetary and saw these contrasts in headstones about three different people. I would report on that and not editorialize too much. Is the importance of our lives judged by our headstone? Of course not. The listener answers this without your biased question if that makes sense.

The song doesn't have to be so serious and such a downer that not as many people would want to hear the whole thing or hear it again. I don't know where your chorus fits into this so-called logic, but it feels unnecessarily maudlin to me.

Pardon my presumption but I'd think about this...

Chorus 1:
A monument to Phineas T
Lived in glory went out in glory
No matter the size of the stone
(repeat to complete chorus 1)

Chorus 2:
Phineas T and Tom
Lived in glory went out in glory
No matter the size of the stone
(repeat to complete chorus 2)

Chorus 3:
Phineas, Tom and Fanny Jane
Lived in glory went out the same
No matter the size of the stone
(repeat to complete chorus 3)

Anyway, I'd take a whole 'nother look at your chorus. But as usual, what do I know?

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi James,

While I really do like your suggested title, Phineas, Tom and Fanny Jane, the chorus edits you offered don't do a lot for me as written. I believe that providing some reason to the listener for including Fanny Crosby requires a bit of my personal justification since so few will have any clue who she was, though I am not telling anyone else to feel as I do about her life..merely asking questions regarding what criteria we use in the chorus I now have. If some folks think those questions are biased, then they may not like the song. Others will...'tis the way of songwriting. This one won't appeal to everyone I am sure. Some folks won't like anything "sentimental", though others love that stuff. This one will undoubtedly stay a bit sentimental, because that is the way I am. [Linked Image] But I will certainly give due consideration to all the comments here.

Please NEVER consider sharing your insights as presumptuous!! I wouldn't be posting here soliciting thoughts and suggestions if I was not going to give them serious consideration. I may not always implement each suggestion, but they always make me think through why I have written what I have and if those ideas feel like improvements...they are edited in. That is what is so great about this place!!

Thank you so very much.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
J
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
J
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
But you told listeners in the verse who she is, blind woman who wrote a lot of hymns.

Maybe I over-edited out the preachy sentimental stuff. Still don't think so, though.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Top 10 Poster
OP Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,806
Hi James,

Yes, the last verse contains these elements: the fact that her writings were a important influence on me, she was a blind woman and she wrote a lot of hymns (they are acknowledged to be among the most remembered of all hymns ever written). I think I must be missing something in your meaning here. Each verse is about a different gravesite, and the chorus is a summation about why the differences between the gravesites had an impact on me. To me, the suggestions you offered for the choruses seem to have lost what I was after as far as emotional appeal and "message", but they are certainly a valid option. Perhaps others will agree that they are an improvement also. Thanks again.

Bobbie


They'll tell you success in the music biz is all about who you know...but the truth is...it's about who knows you.

Gallup 'n Dawg Music

Link Copied to Clipboard
Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
chriscastle, yasir252, cathennashira, Samwise, HappySousa
21,470 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums117
Topics125,717
Posts1,160,950
Members21,470
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
warriorgirl (2024)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5