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#210519 06/02/05 04:27 AM
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Hi,My name is Steve and I just found this site!!WOW-what a number of members!!LOL I have been managing my Daughters music career for 3 years now and have not been able to go over the top/breakthrough to the major labels yet..

She has accomplished an awful lot at a very young age..At age 12 her first recorded song was played in regular rotation at over 60 radio stations in the United states..She also has been the #1 artist on 3 different large internet radio stations in the "Christian" music genre..She has done national showcases and has collaborated with some world class musicians..She has opened up for a dove award winning group..She is now 15 years old and recently taped her first worldwide tv show for the biggest religious media outlet in the world(EWTN)..She has a pretty big web presence and has fans all over the world..Shes been in magazines and Newspapers..She is now going into "POP" music and will be working with some of the very best musicians and producers in the world,but still we have not been able to get the attention of the "Major Labels"..

We work this everyday-Does anyone of you "Mentors" have any advice on how we can go about getting personal interviews with the "MAJORS"????

God Bless!



------------------
"Music is a Joy for the soul"-Kelly-Lynn


"Music is a Joy for the soul"-Kelly-Lynn
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Hire an attorney who specializes in this stuff. there are a bunch of them in Nashville.

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It might be a blessing in disguise not to get noticed by the majors,they can eat you alive.

Why would you leave gospel music to do pop? Most pop music has little of any lasting value,while gospel has eternal value.I know the money may not be there in gospel as opposed to secular music but money is not every thing.I've just about turned my back on writing secular songs and I am now writing almost 100% gospel.I feel I am doing something worth while and lasting.This worlds's treasures will never measure up to heavenly treasures.I wish you all the best in which ever path you take.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

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Thanks Truman-Wish we had the cash to "Hire" that attorney..Great Idea!!

ECA333-My daughter loves Christian music-but we need to survive!!Poverty Stinks!!LOL

Its all about "Business"!!

Cant even make music without good old cash-What good would that be to just sit in poverty and not have the backing to do music???Secular world seems to back its artists more??

Music is Eternal even if its not filled with "Christian" Lyrical content...

------------------
"Music is a Joy for the soul"-Kelly-Lynn


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http://sluggomusic.com/tom_scudiero.htm hey steve glad to see you on these boards hope your getting things done .you can listen to some of my songs at the above address im in the process of a real record these are just demos,21 days iwrote and recorded the same day,but i think its timely and could be a pretty good song hope you can listen ill check back at thie thread in a couple of days.p.s i have some songs that kelly may like (none of these i dont think are appropriate)anyway good to hear from you....tom

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I want to comment on the "why should a Christian do Pop music instead of gospel?" thing.

Music IS a business. Yes, it is a gift. But it is also a talent and profession for many. My entire life, I've seen church people look askance at "crossover" artists like Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith, or more recently, Stacy Orrico or Reliant K or Switchfoot. They use phrases like "they sold out" or "they've lowered their standards".

Back to music being a profession...

Do we expect a Christian who is a plumber to only fix the pipes in churches or Christian schools?

Do we expect the Christian lawyer to only defend Christians (who are "biblically in the right" as the lawyer sees it)?

Do we expect the Christian who is a baker to only make communion morsels and pastries to be used at church functions or in Christian homes for wayward children?

Do we expect the Christian who is an artist to only work for Zondervan, painting illustrations for the covers of Christian novels and children's materials for Sunday School?

No.

I just find myself bemused when people expect that the Christian who is a musician or artist should do this -- ONLY apply their talent and gifts to "church people" or as a means of proselytizing people to the faith.

Jesus himself was a skilled carpenter. But he wasn't known in town for only working on the synagogue. I'm sure he built regular ol' chairs for the neighbors, and tables for the local eateries.

And there is nothing "lower" about this. What better place to be than in the middle of real people, showing commitment to excellence, and having the opportunity to live out a "life-style" faith.

"Selling-out" doesn't mean singing or writing "secular" (i.e., non-church) songs. You can still live your beliefs in the "real world" realm.

Amy Grant once said on Good Morning America, when asked what she thought about the Christians who judge her for having love songs on the radio, "I guess I figure, if I'm not in that slot singing wholesome music about the way love is supposed to be, someone else will be -- someone who may be sending one more negative message."

Wise words.

I myself write and sing Christian music. It's natural for that to come out, since I have a real and meaningful faith. But I also write music that isn't Gospel or CCM. Fun music. Love songs. Rocking songs. Songs about real emotions. Because, beyond being "a Christian", I am a whole person. My music comes out in all aspects of life, not just "in church".

Just as my convictions about fairness and doing my best and loving the unlovable play out in my "day job" -- working at a public school. Just as my beliefs about not being judgmental or extending forgiveness apply to my everyday friends, neighbors and family. And I don't exclaim, each time I live what is inside, "And just so you know, I'm a Christian and I'm doing this for Jesus." I just live -- hopefully in a way that somehow reflects my values and faith.

Like Jesus did -- who was criticized as "a friend of sinners" for hanging out with the "regular people" instead of the church's elite.

Main point? You can BE a Christian in any area of life, including a broader scope to your musical gifts and talents as a profession -- not just keeping it within the walls of Christendom.

OK. Sermon over.

Baz / Erik
www.eriktyler.com
www.soundclick.com/eriktyler



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Hi All,
To get the attention of the Major Labels you will have to have a backer or find the money yourself. It takes as much as $250,000 to get signed to a Major Label. The best way to do that is continue working, building those credits. If it is in the cards, it will happen.


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Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ray E. Strode:
It takes as much as $250,000 to get signed to a Major Label. The best way to do that is continue working, building those credits. If it is in the cards, it will happen.</font>


Do you mean the "credit cards"... [Linked Image]

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Well,
In Palm Beach County, you er, ah, never mind. Say guscave could you lend me a couple Mil until by brother straightens up. He's a hunchback.


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I'll have to check with my financial advisor Quasimoto when he get's back from Fiji... [Linked Image]

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Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tom scudiero:
http://sluggomusic.com/tom_scudiero.htm hey steve glad to see you on these boards hope your getting things done .you can listen to some of my songs at the above address im in the process of a real record these are just demos,21 days iwrote and recorded the same day,but i think its timely and could be a pretty good song hope you can listen ill check back at thie thread in a couple of days.p.s i have some songs that kelly may like (none of these i dont think are appropriate)anyway good to hear from you....tom</font>


Hi,Tom-I got a chance to listen to your songs and you probably already know I love them!!I may be able to help you with a contact in Nashville???I dont know-but want to tell you about it privately..Already told him all about you and he would like to hear your stuff..God bless! Steve


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Big Steve,don't get me wrong,I don't see any thing wrong with doing other genres of music as long as the songs are clean,but don't forsake your first love completely.I write country and a few other genres and would love to get them recorded,but gospel is my main genre.I know that the Christians don't support their music as well as the world supports the secular music,which is a shame, but there are fewer Christians than non-Christians so that accounts for some of it.

If a song is well written with a good message,it should be heard,regardless of genre.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

www.cdbaby.com/all/eca333

www.showcaseyourmusic.com/newsflashsounds
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hey steve ,i emailed you in case you didnt get it call me 727 542 0856. p.s im going to nashvile next week wanna come ?...tom

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Hey Steve!

Just wanted to say "hi", and nice to see you over here, too. I hope it it becomes a helpful stepping stone to the breakthrough that you and your daughter are looking for.

God bless, and warm regards,
John

------------------
John Watilo
Songwriter / Musician / Producer / Worship Facilitator
johnwatilo.com :: john@johnwatilo.com


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Hi Steve,

I understand and feel for your situation. You remind me so much of a guy I just met a few months ago. He
is trying to help his daughters career all he can. They had great success overseas with a top single she hosted MTV overseas also. Maybe your daughter has heard of her the artist is called "Frankee" she is in the pop hip hop semi rap world. Her hit is a bit nasty but she is nice girl and her parents are wonderful people. She is struggling with her career and it seems like it's coming to an end. She's only 20 but that genre of music is in and out fast. I was recommended to her from a close friend and tried to write & produce her some pop rock tunes. Something with a little more substance then her previous work. I'ts a challenge writing songs for teenage girls since I never was one [Linked Image] But we are trying. She sold 500,000
copies overseas but there was a lot of recoupe. Sometimes your first hit is a give away, but sometimes it's the only one you ever get.The stories go on and on you know.

Have you looked into overseas ventures?

Also why don't you try to post something on this thread so we can hear where she's coming from.

You can get further along with alot of money no surprise there. I hate to sound cliche but you have to know somebody.

Would love to hear something.

Best of Luck
Sub


Thanks!
Peace Mike
Sub

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Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...but there are fewer Christians than non-Christians so that accounts for some of it.</font>


Just for interest's sake (and I am making no value judgments about these stats), somewhere around 87% of Americans identify themselves as being "Christian" and believing in God according to Gallup polls, last I heard.

In addition, last I knew, CCM music (though more of a category than a genre, per se) was the second-most-bought kind of music in the industry, with Country music (another wide category spanning from New Country to Country Pop to Country Western) in the lead.

Again, just some "fun facts".

Erik / Baz
www.eriktyler.com
www.soundclick.com/eriktyler

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Saying you are a Christian and believing in God does not necessarily make you a Christian.Those raised in a Christian home or country does not make them a Christian.To become a Christian you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.Even attending a Christian church does not make you a Christian,(maybe a small c Christian),but when you accept Jesus as saviour,you become a capital C Christian and a true child of God.

The devil believes in God and Christ but he is not a Christian.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

www.cdbaby.com/all/eca333

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I repeat:

Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...I am making no value judgments about these stats...</font>


By this, I mean to say, "I am not judging whether the people polled are actually what you, the reader, would call a Christian" (nor could I, since I am not God).

I can't believe I'm explaining this, but ... alas. This 87-some-odd percent of the American population IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as Christians. The devil, if polled, likely would not identify himself as a Christian. That is the big difference. Therefore, whereas the devil will probably not be among the American listening audience buying CCM music, many of the 87% I mentioned ARE in that population, and ARE buying CCM music, to the point of making it the second-highest-selling category of music in the American market.

Remember? The sub-topic here was music and the size of the CCM buying audience -- not trying to ascertain which of the people who identify THEMSELVES as a Christian really are in our opinions.

Baz / Erik
www.eriktyler.com
www.soundclick.com/eriktyler

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"The only way to get anywhere is to cross a few lines."


[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 06-30-2005).]


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Hey-thanks all-for your comments!!Here ia a link to my daughters site! Songs on site were recorded at 12 and 13 years of age..Have to redo site!!!LOL its www.Kelly-Lynn.com

She is gonna be recording very different style of music real soon and will eventually redo website with all new image and music..

Hi,Jwatillo-For those of you who dont know-John is a great songwriter!!!

Substudio-Thanks for comments!

Baz-Thanks for the correspondance and look for a new Kelly-Lynn coming out pretty soon including the "OHS" and "Ahs".. LOL- Loved your comments about the devils likely answer if Polled!!

ECA-Secular or Christian is just a style-"Christian" is who you are!!We are Christians and love the Lord!

Tom-Nice talking to ya the other eve!!

God Bless! All!


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Hi Steve,

Thanks for posting the link. Kelly is lovely and has a wonderful voice she is the right age to be for an oppurtunity to start to develop in the field. You have more than half the battle won already especially with her expierence.
Are the producers of the Pop music she will be doing also going to try to shop around for you?

Let me know how it goes, there is a chance I might be able to help at least get one oppurtunity for you.
I wont get into it on this thread but write back when she has some pop or contemporary material. I loved the work so far and the songs are wonderful.

Keep it up & good luck
Sub


Thanks!
Peace Mike
Sub

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When you see Christian churches(so called) willing to perform gay marriages,which in my opinion is against what the bible teaches,it would make you wonder how Christian these churches are.Even our so called Christian countries have banned God from our schools,etc.and are passing laws that may make it unlawful to preach the whole bible.I was a small c Christian for years and thought I was alright but I was just as lost as an atheist without making Jesus my personal saviour.Christianity is a life style,something you live,not a tag you put on yourself for convenience,you believe it and try your best to live it.Even a lot of the so called Christian music today is devoid
of content that would lead one to Christ.

I guess I better stop preaching before I offend too many itching ears.LOL

[This message has been edited by ECA333 (edited 07-01-2005).]


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

www.cdbaby.com/all/eca333

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I guess I better stop preaching before I offend too many itching ears.</font>


ECA, given the biblical context of the phrase "itching ears", where it applies to people who willfully want preaching to cater to their known sinful penchants instead of being about truth, I do find your comment to be judgmental, pretentious and offensive. I don't know if you're trying to come off "better-than-thou", but you are winding up doing just that.

The thread here is about a particular artist's goals to enter a different genre, as well as about the market for certain genres -- not about making sure people know that you are a "Big-C Christian" (which at least I am taking to mean "a better Christian than all you small-c christians who don't love God enough to be using this thread as a pulpit").

But since you brought it up...

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Even a lot of the so called Christian music today is devoid of content that would lead one to Christ.</font>


Did CHRIST HIMSELF "lead people to Christ" with every encounter he had with them? I mean, He is Christ, so I would think He should set the standard.

Let's start with the fact that we know nothing about Jesus and His words prior to age 30, barring the one incident at the temple as a preteen. Essentially, that leaves 28 years of His life, since children begin to speak, where whatever He said apparently wasn't "leading people to Christ".

That aside, let's look at some times during his actual 3-year ministry in earnest.

Just flipping through here, I come across Matthew 12:9-14 where Jesus heals a man on the Sabbath. When questioned as to what He is doing, Jesus says in essence, "If any of you guys had a sheep that fell in a well today, you'd be pulling it out. Well, a person is more important than a sheep." Then He heals the man and leaves. I don't see Him saying, "And I am healing by the power of God, and will die for your sins and rise again to life with that power, so believe in me." There isn't even any record that He told the man He healed any sort of salvation message.

But it was a STEP. Because Jesus realized that not everyone is on the same path toward understanding the Gospel. Sometimes, He just met the physical need and let people wonder, "Why did he do that for me?" That was enough for that time.

Now, I'm passing through many parables where Jesus said, "I am telling things in parables because people aren't ready to understand these truths, but they may in time, and then the stories will make sense." No preaching. Just stories.

How about this, in Mark 12. Jesus is asked what the greatest commandment is. His reply is, "Love God with your entire being and love your neighbor as yourself. No commandments are greater than these." No salvation message, per se. No telling about his impending death and how it will save the soul. No direct call to repentance. Just "love God and love each other." And He himself deemed this to be of utmost importance.

In John 2, at the wedding at Cana, Jesus came as a guest (not a preacher). When the wine runs out, Mary prompts him to action. His first reaction isn't, "Great idea, Mom! Then I'll have everyone's attention and can tell them that I'm God and I will soon die for their sins!" He actually says, "Mom, that isn't why we're here. It's not time for me to be talking about who I am yet." Still, for some reason, He does "restock the wine". And then He is silent. No preaching. No Gospel message. Just a kind favor that made people more interested in who He was and what He might be about. Later.

And then there are the accounts where people actually outright asked Jesus, "Are you or are you not the Son of God?" And, for whatever reasons He had, He did not answer them at that time.

Does that mean He wasn't "living the Gospel" -- because He didn't choose each and every incident to be a full-out Gospel message? No. He knew that, for different people at different places along life's path, different messages were required -- each of them a STEP toward the fuller understanding of Him that would allow that person to eventually be able to believe (or knowingly reject).

So why, as Christian artists, should each and every song be aimed toward "lead[ing] one to Christ", if Christ himself didn't take this approach?

Is a song about kindness wasted? Is a song about joy offensive to God? Is a song about a wholesome love for another disappointing to Him because it doesn't contain a full-out Gospel message?

More accurately, every song that paints a picture of the way LIFE is changed by a living faith is a step toward understanding the Author of such a life. It doesn't have to happen en total in each and every incident -- or song.

Baz / Erik
www.eriktyler.com
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[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 07-01-2005).]


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Hi Big Steve,
If I'm not mistaken Leann Rimes and Shania Twain were born on September 28th. Some pretty good company. A nephew was also born on that date, different years.

For you folks discussing religion, maybe you can help me with something.
The first commandent says something about Ye shall have no other gods before me.
Now here is God admitting there are other Gods. Now if 10 God's show up before me one day, which one do I pick?


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Hey Ray,

You said:

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Now here is God admitting there are other Gods.</font>


I will try to give a sincere and at least biblically-accurate answer to that.

Actually, the small 'g', as translated into the English from the Hebrew, is important there. To my knowledge, the message-giver here ("God") never refers to Himself as "God". He always uses descriptors of Himself, but His name is not "God". (For all its complications, English isn't the most expressive language sometimes.)

When the early translators came up with the English renditions from the Hebrew, they weren't thinking, "Now what else might people through the ages think this means?" They just did their best to be accurate -- and were. But language has changed, so interpretations -- especially of earlier versions like the King James version -- tend to be based on archaic English and no longer on the original texts.

The command, as given, would more accurately be understood as something like this:

"You Hebrews have taken the habit of believing that the false deities and statues of your captors are real -- are replacements for Me. Though your captors see these as deity -- gods -- they are not. I AM. In whatever decisions you make from here on out, don't turn to these icons and statues any longer. Turn to Me, because I AM the only living Being fitting of what man calls a 'god'."

Remember, the commandments were not given primarily to be understood by 21st Century Americans, but by a specific population of escaped Hebrews in history. THEY understood exactly what He meant (the rest of us have to use the context we're given to have the same background knowledge each of the original listeners had).

Part of that context -- part of the five-book section called The Law (or the Pentateuch, by some) -- is Deuteronomy 4:28, where the Being we call GOD refers to the other gods this way: "...idols made from wood and stone, gods that can't see or hear or eat or smell." Hebrew doesn't allow for the English convention of using quotes to show sarcasm, but the intent is clear. These 'gods' are not gods at all. They are CALLED 'gods' and TREATED as 'gods', but the Being known in the Bible as "the true GOD" denounces these as nothing more than wood and stone. Dead. Unable to hear prayers or see the plight of those praying, to eat the sacrifices or smell the incense. Nothing. They are just things.

So, to sincerely answer your question (whether you meant it sincerely or not :smile :):

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Now if 10 God's show up before me one day, which one do I pick?</font>


Pick the One that isn't dead.

Baz / Erik
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[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 07-01-2005).]


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Baz,
Can't you tell when I am posting a joke. However that person that brought the 10 Commandments down from that mountain said that God gave them to him. Does provide quite a controversy now, doesn't it? Explanations aren't necessary as everyone can be their own expert. When it comes to religion, there are no experts.


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">When it comes to religion, there are no experts.</font>


With this, I completely agree.

Honestly, I wasn't sure if you were kidding or not. I suspected it. But on the off chance that it was a sincere question, I did my best to answer according to the original source you quoted from, for internal validity. However, I agree that the best of explanations, when it comes to the spiritual realm, are marred, because we are only human with all its limitations -- "seeing as if through smoked glass" at best.

I once read an interesting quote from an ancient named Gregory of Nyccia (whoever he was): "Faith is not walking unwaveringly in the light; it is choosing to continue stumbling forward in the dark."

It's actually nice to not have to have all the answers...

Baz / Erik
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[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 07-01-2005).]


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Hillary Duff also was born on September 28th....I guess its in the stars!LOL HA HA(A joke-I dont believe in astrology)..

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Good answer to Ray's question,even if he was joking.Today we make gods out of rock stars, sports heros,etc.even money can become a god if we let it.

I don't see anything wrong with good clean songs in any genre(I write country with good messages)but some how I would not call them gospel,maybe they could come under the heading of Christian country.

If Jesus had admitted He was God earlier in His ministry,He would have been crucified before His time was up,before His work was done.His work is done and it is up to His followers to continue to point others to the fact that He is the way to salvation.Anyone that tries to climb up any other way will not make it.I am not trying to sound Holier than thou,I know I am a sinner saved by grace and that grace come from Jesus Christ.
There are still many that don't know this and we that do know,have a duty to tell them,if they do not believe,then their sins are not upon you(me).We don't have to continue to cast our pearls but we should do so at least once.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

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Kelly is an excellent singer, I just listened to the songs on her site. And she's very pretty. Keep her hangin' out with only the right people [Linked Image]

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Big Steve,
Of course you shouldn't depend on Astrology for deciding yours or other's futures as every person's chart is different. No two people will have the same chart as it takes 25,920 years for the planets to be in the same place in relation to each other as they are at a moment in history. Interesting fact that Christianty has it's roots buried deep in Astrology. About 2500 years ago at least one astrologer, and perhaps more were casting charts into the future. When they came about 500 years into the future, they saw the most powerful chart they had ever seen. They estimated some important event or person was going to be born. This event was, of course in conjunction with the plight of the Jews, you know the story. When this time came more Astrologers, known as The Three Wise Men, followed up on this earlier observation. When the Wise Men approached King Herod they asked him, Where is this new born babe, born King of the Jews, not where is this new born babe, born Savior of the universe. Herod, of course knew nothing about it. Over about the last 2000 years there was a "Lot lost in the Translation" and Jesus became our personal savior rather than a savior of the Jews, of which was all it was. It has been estimated that Jesus was born in 7 B.C. That year there was a Triple Conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn. Not a particularly good time to be born for a person to be famous or controversal. Most of our presidents elected under that conjunction have not completed their term in office. No doubt Jesus was born at the beginning of the age of Pisces. Today we are entering the Age of Aquarius. The overall rulership of Pisces and the Age of Pisces is Neptune. Among other things Neptune rules deception, self deception and confusion. The effect of Pisces is to believe in things that never happened on land or on sea. A lot of that going on today. The Age of Aquarius is said to be the Age of Enlightment. So we are going from the Dark Ages into the Age of Enlightment. Or as Tug McGraw once said, what does it matter because in 50 million years the earth will just be a frozen snowball anyway.


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Over about the last 2000 years there was a "Lot lost in the Translation" and Jesus became our personal savior rather than a savior of the Jews, of which was all it was.</font>


The source quoted to refer to the Wise Men (Magi or Astronomers) following signs in the stars is the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Not only are the texts of these books available in, at worst, very early recordings and, in some cases, the original language in some form or other, they have been referred to as accurate above (in believing that said Magi actually existed and did what the gospels record them as having done). The claim that the intent of these books has been "lost in translation over 2000 years" is not accurate. This is not a claim held by Christian scholars alone, but one held as irrefutable by literary scholars of ancient texts.

That said, Jesus Himself DOES claim to be the savior of the world, not merely the Jews. One such incidence is Mark 16:15 and 16 -- "Go into the whole world and preach this Good News to everyone, everywhere. Anyone who believes will be saved." Though the beginning of Jesus' "purpose" was to fulfill prophecies and offer this Good News (salvation) to the Jews FIRST, He himself made it clear that it was then to be offered to anyone in the world who wanted this "salvation".

Also, in Jesus' own words while praying in John 17:20-23: "I am praying not only for these disciples, but also for all who will ever believe in me because of their testimony. My prayer for all of them is that they will be one, just as You and I are one, Father -- that just as You are in me and I am in You, so they will be in us, and the world will believe you sent me. I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are -- I in them and You in me, all being perfected into one. Then the world will know that you sent me and will understand that you love them as much as you love me."

Whether one believes this or not isn't my concern in writing this. I at least wanted to point out that these claims aren't just mistranslations by others about Jesus. Rather, Jesus said of Himself (in what is considered accurate record by non-religious scholars) that He was offering salvation to the entire world, not just the Jews. One can debate that He was lying or crazy or deluded. But I at least wanted to point out that the record does, in fact, have Him claiming both that He is God (that He and "the Father" are one) and that he was offering love/salvation to the entire world, not just the Jews.

The reader can, of course, make of that as he/she will.

Erik / Baz
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[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 07-12-2005).]


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Thanks Ray [Linked Image]
Joanne

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Baz,
Don't you ever check anything out for yourself? If something don't sound right do you question it or just buy it. The Gospels were written long after the Three Wise Men and Jesus came and went. And you need to read the question again that the Wise Men asked Herod. The Wise Men didn't identify Jesus as Savior of the Universe just a savior of the Jews. You need to learn to "Read between the lines". Perhaps you remember the story of Jesus going into the desert because he wasn't sure what he was supposed to be. I think after a while he just went along with the Program, so to speak. There are references in the Bible that we are all part of God. Have you found them yet? If not it will give you some research to do. As I said we are entering the Age of Enlightment but it will be a while before it completely happens. But not to worry everything is fine and the world is going along just as it is supposed to.


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Don't you ever check anything out for yourself? If something don't sound right do you question it or just buy it. The Gospels were written long after the Three Wise Men and Jesus came and went.</font>


Actually, I have checked it all out -- cover to cover, many times, and have crossreferenced heavily to the original Hebrew, Chaldean and Greek. In addition to the Bible, I have read everything from the Koran to the Book of Mormon to the Satanic Bible.

Where in what I said did you find that I didn't realize when the gospel writers penned their books? The amazing thing is that all four writers actually wrote at DIFFERENT time, many years later, and from different locations -- and still were consistent in what they said happened.

What the wise men thought really has little to do with Jesus and his claims. Many people think partial ideas about who he was -- then and now. And if his goal was to be the King of the Jews, he didn't achieve it. Actually, if that was the sole goal, he failed pretty miserably -- never leading them anywhere but into more trouble with the Roman oppressors, getting their hopes up, and then dying. Hope the wise men weren't disappointed.

I am not someone who has ever taken "religion" at face value. I don't "buy" anything people say. I check it out for myself. I might ask the same of you. You've asked if I've "found" certain subtext in the Bible. Do you mean in the original languages? If not, in what texts? And have you read the entirety of the book (including the apocryphal books and the Septuigent if you like)?

Please provide the references where humans are told "we are all part of God". At best, the opening of the gospel of John says that "By Him and to Him and through Him all things exist." So, yes, in the sense that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, all that exists would then be matter created out of the original (non-created) energy of "God". I'm not getting the point you are trying to make.

I offer that we might want to continue this conversation off boards, since it has really become more of a philisophical debate in earnest now, and many people may not be interested. But, whatever.

My goal isn't to convince you of anything. I simply tried to present accurately from the source you referred to. If you don't go for that, no problem. People always have and always will disagree about who Jesus claimed to be, was, is, etc. I haven't given any opinions. I've just tried to accurately present what I read from the source (in this case, the Bible).

Erik / Baz
www.eriktyler.com
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[This message has been edited by TheBaz (edited 07-13-2005).]


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Many people say "we are all God's children" but is this true.Didn't Jesus say to some of the religious leaders of the day that they were of their father the Devil?What exactly did He mean by that?


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

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This is an interesting and enlightening discussion...

I'm a singer/songwriter/performer, but I am not identified as a "Christian" artist per se. I have a huge "secular" catalog, and generally try to play my solo gigs in family friendly restaurants or coffee houses.

For the last few years, I have also played and sang in my church band and written a few songs with an overt Christian message.

I don't have any type of publishing deal at the moment, but would like to find a home (a publishing deal) for my Contemporary Christian tunes and maybe play more often in other churches.

So, is it wrong to want to try and make at least a portion of your living in the Christian genre?



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There is nothing wrong with making money from Christian music.The bible says those that do a work for the Lord should be paid, and those that do more should be paid more. God is not cheap even if some of His followers are.LOL


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

www.cdbaby.com/all/eca333

www.showcaseyourmusic.com/newsflashsounds

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