Who's Online Now
5 members (couchgrouch, rpirone, Guy E. Trepanier, Gavin Sinclair, 1 invisible), 928 guests, and 249 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
What's Going On
Fox News Reports Stunning Archeological Discovery.
by couchgrouch - 03/27/24 08:02 PM
Wasting My Time
by David Gill - 03/27/24 07:42 AM
Can you save me from me
by David Gill - 03/26/24 07:16 PM
Song available
by JAPOV - 03/26/24 03:38 PM
YELLIN AT CLOUDS
by David Gill - 03/26/24 03:20 PM
"Reliving" the great Lou Rawls!
by Brian Austin Whitney - 03/26/24 01:49 PM
::: The Best In My Life :::
by Bill Draper - 03/26/24 01:32 PM
The show must go on
by ckiphen - 03/26/24 09:06 AM
NYC Motel 1972
by rpirone - 03/26/24 12:43 AM
usic Industry Summitt
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 11:32 PM
The Rant Arena
by JAPOV - 03/25/24 07:39 PM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Lancaster Festival, Lancaster, Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 10:51 AM
Wasting my time
by Rob B. - 03/25/24 03:45 AM
Tom Waits.. What's he building
by Fdemetrio - 03/25/24 12:09 AM
Rick Beato, bad lyrics
by Fdemetrio - 03/24/24 11:23 PM
Inspirational Videos Post Them Here
by Sunset Poet - 03/24/24 11:27 AM
Used to take a Genius to Mix
by Fdemetrio - 03/23/24 11:00 AM
She’s missing but she ain’t missing him
by ckiphen - 03/23/24 08:44 AM
"Broken Places"
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/22/24 07:45 PM
All You Are Is A Lie
by Sunset Poet - 03/22/24 06:55 PM
Pour Choices
by Gavin Sinclair - 03/22/24 05:29 PM
Billy's 30 year overdue song.
by Fdemetrio - 03/22/24 01:30 PM
Make my dreams come true
by ckiphen - 03/22/24 10:51 AM
Stuck Here At The Light
by David Gill - 03/21/24 10:40 AM
Because Easter bunny...
by David Gill - 03/21/24 09:44 AM
"I Miss You, Baby"
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/21/24 08:39 AM
"I Miss You, Baby"
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/21/24 08:39 AM
Top Posters
Calvin 19,857
Travis david 12,264
Kevin Emmrich 10,941
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 9,003
glynda 8,683
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
couchgrouch 8,160
Colin Ward 7,911
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,916
Mark Kaufman 6,589
ben willis 6,114
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Fdemetrio 4,989
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,670
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,389
Roy Cooper 4,271
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,195
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,171
MFB III 4,143
Sunset Poet 4,125
nightengale 4,096
E Swartz 3,985
JAPOV 3,973
beechnut79 3,878
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,845
Dan Sullivan 3,710
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Nigel Quin 2,891
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
MidniteBob 2,761
Nelson 2,616
Tom Tracy 2,558
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,246
Wendy D 2,235
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
maccharles 2,134
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,041
DukeWill 2,002
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,652
Noel Downs 1,633
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
GocartMoz 1,559
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,481
Tom Franz 1,473
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,409
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
Deej56 1,385
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,294
lane1777 1,280
Gerry 1,280
DakLander 1,265
IronKnee 1,262
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,235
Glen King 1,214
VNORTH2 1,210
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,174
Diane Ewing 1,162
ckiphen 1,118
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
9ne 1,035
David Gill 1,031
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
90 dB 964
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
ant 798
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
bennash 763
teletwang 762
Andy K 750
Andy Kemp 749
tbryson 737
Jackie444 731
Irwin 720
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Pat Hardy 692
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Moosesong 668
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
R&M 614
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 590
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 513
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
Rob L 439
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Alek 386
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Ann_F 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
ddreuter 371
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Rob B. 364
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Z - man 350
JamesDF5 348
John K 348
Jaden 344
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 294
markus-ky 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
Char 286
ktunes 285
Top Likes Received
JAPOV 86
VNORTH2 45
bennash 38
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#209941 09/07/04 05:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69
L
leeanna Offline OP
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
L
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69
Hi,

I have a question and I hope that the people here won't be shy about giving an opinion!
I am currently in a band and we are recording a cd. I have written 100% of the music and lyrics that we are recording. When we started the guys said that they would gladly donate their time and if I ever sold a song I could pay them then. These are a great group of guys and have helped tremendously in arranging and demoing the songs. Now that I'm getting close to having something to pitch - do you think that I should have a written agreement for paying the guys - rather than just a handshake deal. Also, what would be a good percentage to suggest? There are three other people in the band besides myself.
I have read that co-writers should get a 50/50 deal and I agree with that. Is this situation just left up to my discretion? What do you think?
Lee Anna


------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/troublewithmonday.htm

#209942 09/07/04 07:17 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412
R
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
R
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412
Yes. While you all are getting along well I would have a meeting stating that you want to make sure that everyone is treated fairly with what ever they contributed to your ?project. Just say that this is part of the business and needs to be done. This may head off bad feelings later on. It may take some coaxing and encouraging but it will be better in the end. Remember, An Oz. of Prevention is worth a pound of Cure! And no, I am not avaliable to referee.


Ray E. Strode
#209943 09/07/04 07:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,372
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,372
Yeah....Ray's right.

When you've got nothing to lose, promises and good intentions are great.
But..then all of a sudden things start to happen and everything can change.

Everyone needs to know exactly what they can and cannot expect if things start to happen.

Remeember..it's Show BUSINESS !

I wrote all the words and music for my first bands CD.

I made all of them co/writers..sharing 50% among them.
Now...since we only sold a couple of hundred CDs, it was no big deal.

But..under the circumstances, I think it was the right way to handle it, and I'd do it again even if I knew we were gonna sell millions of units.

Good luck

Bob

[This message has been edited by bob young (edited 09-07-2004).]

#209944 09/07/04 08:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69
L
leeanna Offline OP
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
L
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69
Thanks Ray,

I do believe it is the right thing to do at this point -it will make everything clear later down the road.

Bob - when you decided to list them as co-writers. Did you actually file the copyright with them listed? Or did you just split the money AS IF they were co-writers?

------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/troublewithmonday.htm

#209945 09/07/04 09:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 327
H
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
H
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 327
Pay them "as if". Don't put their names on the copyrights. If you do, they will own the songs right along with you.

As the sole writer of the songs, yours should be the only name on the copyright. The band members should only be paid a percentage of the MECHANICAL royalties. (Mechanicals are the royalties earned only from CD sales.)

You should have exclusive rights to any PUBLISHING royalties. Think about this - if you were to list them as co-writers, if a band on a major label recorded one of your songs, your band members would be entitled to 50% of your royalties - even if it's 15 years down the road.

------------------
Chris

[This message has been edited by Helicon1 (edited 09-07-2004).]

#209946 09/07/04 09:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,372
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,372
Yes, Leeana..

I did listhem as co/writers in the copyrights and the publishing forms..

I felt that the songs never would have been written or performed or even existed without the input and support of those guys.

It seemed and still seems the fair thing to do.

I'm not saying that everyone should do that..it's just the circumstances that existed at the time.

I can tell you that, all these years later, if one of those songs were to be picked up and recorded by somebody that made a hit out of it, I'd be proud to share the royalties with those guys.

Bob

#209947 09/07/04 10:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 367
D
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
D
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 367
Hi Leeanna,

Bob is right that each situation is unique and based on what you describe there are two ways to handle it. I also agree that it's much better to take care of these things up front rather than later:

1. Include them as co-writers or as sharing in royalties: This would be the preferred method if what they contributed to each song uniquely makes it the "song".

2. Pay them as session players: This would be a way to handle if they simply performed as musicians at the session and the songs really were completely yours.

The dynamics of the band obviously factor into this decision...I know of bands where they are always listed as cowriters. And, I know of bands where the band isn't listed as cowriters. It really depends on your particular situation.

Good luck.

-Danny

------------------
----------------------
Danny Arena/Sara Light
www.SongU.com
Songwriting Courses Online


----------------------
Danny Arena/Sara Light
http://www.SongU.com
Songwriting Courses Online
#209948 09/08/04 04:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 327
H
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
H
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 327
It depends on what they contribute. If they are in the room with you while you are writing the melody and/or lyrics, and they are helping you write, offering ideas, suggesting lines, etc, they are most definitely co-writers.

But if you are strictly talking about you being the only true writer of these songs, then they are not co-writers and aren't entitled to be included on the copyright of your songs.

This isn't being insensitive or controlling. This is business. This is everyone getting what they truly deserve for the work they do. The band should not even expect to be credited or paid publishing on songs that they had no hand in writing.

Here's another way to look at this situation.
Suppose you give them shares in the copyrights. Two years down the road the band breaks up and everybody hates each other. You get more musicians to play with and you put out a CD of your new band with the songs that you wrote when you were with your old band. It goes platinum. The old band would be getting half of your royalties and they are not even playing on your album! And what about your new band? They certainly won't like it when they find out the old band is getting royalties when they aren't.

Another scenario:
Say you share the copyrights with your band members. Your drummer gets mad and quits. You get a new drummer, and everybody in the band except the new drummer are getting publishing royalties, and your old drummer is too. That wouldn't go over so well.

Bob has a legitimate point of view, and it is admirable of him to be so generous. And it's perfectly fine if you feel you should do it that way.

But you would not be doing an injustice to anyone by electing not to give YOUR sole copyrights away. No one should expect to be credited or paid for work they didn't do.

------------------
Chris

[This message has been edited by Helicon1 (edited 09-08-2004).]

#209949 09/08/04 05:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9
V
Casual Observer
Offline
Casual Observer
V
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9
Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Helicon1:
As the sole writer of the songs, yours should be the only name on the copyright. The band members should only be paid a percentage of the MECHANICAL royalties. (Mechanicals are the royalties earned only from CD sales.)
</font>

"Mechanicals" are one form of publishing royalties, due to songwriters. In the absence of another agreement with the songwriter, a statutory rate of about 8.5 cents per recording distributed is due the songwriter. This is the "mechanical". (The other two kinds of royalties paid to songwriters are performance royalties, and synch royalties).

But this discussion hasn't reflected the fact that there are TWO distinct copyrights here.

The first copyright is on the music as written, the song; this right belongs to the songwriter alone unless she sells/gives all or portion of the right to other parties. In the present discussion, leeanna is the sole songwriter and therefore would be due this mechanical royalty. She can of course share it if she wishes.

The second copyright is on the sound recording itself. The entire band that recorded the song would have a part of that copyright, unless they were session musicians doing a "work for hire". I don't know much about the legalities of royalty payment for reproducing a copyrighted sound recording, but do be aware that the copyright on the sound recording is distinct and separate from the copyright in the song itself.

--- John

#209950 09/08/04 06:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 327
H
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
H
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 327
Mechanicals are just what you said they are, Vulcan. But the question she was asking assumed that she was going to compensate the band members for their part, essentially paying them part of her royalties that normally she would be the only person entitled to receive as the songwriter.

The best way to explain it is to give examples.
Say the writer of the songs decided to keep all of the songwriting royalties she is entitled to. She writes 10 songs that the band records and releases as an album.

To keep it simple we will assume that the album sells 10,000 copies at $10 per copy.
The total gross earnings of the album sales is $100,000.
For simplicity we will assume that this is a totally indie release, and the band splits all the costs of recording, duplication, distribution and promotion, and that all these costs have been paid for up front.

Then the normal way the money earned from the sales of the album would be divided up are:
A) 8.5 cents to the writer of the songs for each song on the album (mechanicals for writing the song).
10 songs x $.085 = $.85.
The writer of the songs receives 85 cents in mechanical royalties for each copy sold.
The total writer mechanical royalties would be $8,500.

B) The rest of the money would be divided equally between ALL the band members. If there are 4 members (including Leeanna), each would receive $22,875.

The only thing that would change if Leeanna decided to GIVE them half of her mechanical royalties from writing the songs is that Leeanna would only get $4,250 and the remaining $4,250 would be divided between the other 3 members, meaning that they would each get $1,416.66.


------------------
Chris

[This message has been edited by Helicon1 (edited 09-08-2004).]

#209951 09/08/04 08:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69
L
leeanna Offline OP
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
L
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69
Okay - these posts have been most helpful to me. I am the sole songwriter - I write them and bring them to the band. They, then say - how does this drum beat sound? How about this on guitar? etc.
I am totally encouraging about them bringing out their own talents during this rehearsal time. However, I still have final say on which direction a song goes.

Chris - your examples work really well for me. The example about CD sales was very helpful. Also the difference between Mechanical and Publishing royalties helped a lot.

John - your post was great as well.

I'm beginning to get a handle on what I can discuss with everybody. We are all friends - although it started off as a business arrangement. I really don't want to mess up the good thing we've got going here!
Lee Anna


------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/troublewithmonday.htm

#209952 09/10/04 07:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9
V
Casual Observer
Offline
Casual Observer
V
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9
Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by leeanna:
...I'm beginning to get a handle on what I can discuss with everybody. We are all friends - although it started off as a business arrangement. I really don't want to mess up the good thing we've got going here!</font>


Glad that between everyone you got a good picture. It's smart that you're taking the legalities seriously and getting them handled right. That way it's easier to stay friends!

Good luck on your project. I hope you find it musically rewarding and also profitable. [Linked Image]

--- John

#209953 09/10/04 10:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 191
H
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
H
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 191
Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by leeanna:
Okay - these posts have been most helpful to me. I am the sole songwriter - I write them and bring them to the band. They, then say - how does this drum beat sound? How about this on guitar? etc.

</font>


Sounds as if they should be treated as nothing more than studio musicians. Paid at an hourly rate. Anything more would be just gratis on your part. The hangup is the pay sometime in the future maybe thing. You might feel better about it if you made an agreement to pay them an amount somewhat greater than just the session hourly rate if anything pans out. To forfeit part ownership in the song is,imo, more than what they earned. The final decision is ultimately yours.

#209954 09/12/04 01:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 27
M
Casual Observer
Offline
Casual Observer
M
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 27
Yes--get it in writing. People have short memories--especially when money is involved.

From your description of what actually happens, you are indeed the sole songwriter as well as your own publisher at this point in time. I agree with those who advised you to keep your songwriting/publishing royalties. All of the contributions being made by the band are simply the same type contributions that any studio player in Nashville would make at a song demo or master recording session. They would never request ownership of the song under those circumstances. Keep the songwriting issue totally separate from artist royalties.

Having said that, the studio musicians do get paid for the session, which might be a problem with a limited budget. If you want them to share in the possible success of the project, then give them a royalty--just like a record company would do. Or share the profits. But put a "cap" on how much they will get if they are not actually playing on the recording which is being sold (maybe double union scale). Either way, the "featured artist" (you I assume) would still get the biggest piece of the pie. On the other hand, if this is truly a "band project" then the band can share all the expenses (studio, pressing, etc.) and the net profits from record sales and other licenses. Remember, however, the songwriting and publishing income is kept separate--and would be deducted from record sales money before splitting any profits with the band.

I hope that helps.

Steve

http://musicrowlawyer.com

Here's my disclaimer: My reply to your post is provided for general informational purposes only and is not meant to constitute legal advice or to be a substitute for seeking legal advice. Also, this reply and its contents do not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Since every transaction and/or case is different, to protect your legal rights it is very important to obtain competent legal counsel specific to your situation.

#209955 09/14/04 02:36 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 555
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 555
Do everybody you work with a favor. Don't make any type of promise or agreement you're not willing to put on paper.

I worked with a guy (Let's call him Phil) who had had some success in the early 80's, who claimed to have had a song stolen from him by a producer, a former member of a world famous singing group.I've heard the song in question and a rough demo.

Where I on the jury...
Anyway, he was a talented writer but the most common complaint about his songs is that they sounded too 'dated'. His 'carrot' to get me to spend dozens of hours a week working on his material was the promise of forming a production team. We'd both write and keep our own songwriting, but the cooperative would profit by selling the songs to other artists as well as producing/developing young talent.

Neither of us had any money to pay musicians and since we both played a variety of instruments adequately it seemed an ideal arrangement. We were also in a band together. I did my part and produced the solo demo for our lead singer. Feedback was tremendous. For a first project, everyone was impressed with the quality of production (me) and the songs (him).

As I began to ask what form the production agreement was going to take, he balked. Hundreds of hours wasted. I could have just been the band's bass player and wouldn't have put in anywhere near the amount of time I did with the promise that we would be producing partners.

The next Terry Lewis/Jimmy Jam he claimed.

In the meantime I'm writing my own songs except I'm sharing songwriting credits with the other band (I was in two different groups at the same time). They weren't making near the contributions to me as I made with my ersatz partner but I still shared credits with them because quite frankly I lifted a lot of ideas from them and thought it only fair. All my copyright forms (none of which have yet been filed) all read like this:

Wendell McCaskill and Five O'clock Shadow (Names of all band members present when songs were rehearsed)

That way I get 50% and the band (of which i'm a member) split the other 50%.

Sort like Bob has done.

They didn't ask for any such credit, but that's how I've chosen to share it. In the meantime I continue to help other members and former members write material. I tape and date everything. I know what I wrote for who and can prove it, but if nothing is ever done with the songs, why make a stink about what percent of what I wrote for who?

Sorry about the long post, but I learned a lesson. I'm not bitter about it, I learned a lot from a talented writer and arranger, But his behavior towards me and other people has tarred his rep, not mine. Not only that, but of the dozens musicians we know in common, I can pick up the phone and fill a stage or studio with talent, some of whom will play for next to nothing or whatever my budget will allow.

He can barely get his phone calls returned. This weekend a dozen guys showed up to play all day at the drummers housewarming party for bar-b-que and beer. Phil's getting married and couldn't get anyone to play at his reception without coming up with $200 per man. I was the only idiot to offer to do it for free as a gift.

If you have the cash, pay them upfront and be done with it. If you're asking them to invest their time, at least keep your word.

Putting something on paper should signal your sincerity.

If I say it, I'll sign it.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
chriscastle, yasir252, cathennashira, Samwise, HappySousa
21,470 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums117
Topics125,714
Posts1,160,942
Members21,470
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5