10 members (Fdemetrio, VNORTH2, Gary E. Andrews, Perry Neal Crawford, couchgrouch, Sunset Poet, Guy E. Trepanier, bennash, Bill Draper, David Gill),
4,088
guests, and
270
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.
By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12
Casual Observer
|
OP
Casual Observer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12 |
Almost every success story that I hear has a common thread: the musician\band played and played and played until they made some connection with someone who was in a position to help them. I've always liked the example of Damon Gough (aka Badly Drawn Boy) who played some notoriously terrible shows early on in his career in any hole-in-the-wall club he could get into until someone from a London-based indie label picked him up. Now he's on Gap ads. I guess my quandary that leads to my question is this: I am terrified of playing live. My hands shake uncontrollably, my voice cracks, I come very close to a break down. I have my own make-shift studio, I write songs constantly, I play all the instruments (and synth all those I can't) and of course provide my own vocals. I love to write music. I love it when others hear my music. This is why I tend to give out free cd's whenever I can. Recently it seems things have begun to roll for me. I mentioned in another post that I've received airplay on college radio (in fact, I just received another email from a woman in Minnesota who wanted permission to play my songs on her radio show). It's to the point now where I am preparing to get cd's manufactured under my own label. Which brings us to my question: What are the chances, or what is the likelihood that an indie artist, who has no connections to speak of, who is in a terrible location as far as the music industry is concerned (Kansas), and who cannot bear to perform in front of an audience could make a living as a musician? I know the Beatles eventually stopped performing and became recording artists exclusively, but, you know, they were the Beatles and had already established themselves as indomitable figures in music history. Any suggestions? Thoughts? Have any of you struggled with the same problems? Have you ever heard of anyone in a similar situation "making it?" I'm all ears. ------------------ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/buggfinnmusic.htm
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 590
Top 500 Poster
|
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 590 |
Well, the nice answer is that it's not impossible. However, the honest answer is that the odds of making a career-launching connection without performing is very close to zero. I understand that you have a touch of stage fright-- just about everyone goes through that in the beginning. Some folks get over it quickly, others never do but they keep playing anyway. I know a guy who pukes before every show. I play shows a few times a month, for all types and sizes of crowds and have done so for years... but once in a great while I'll get nervous for no particular reason. Just part of the business. If you just cannot perform at all, maybe you can give it a go as a songwriter. Either find a great performer who can't write (& who's looking for a teammate), or start learning the writing end of the business and go after a publishing deal. Any way you go, best of luck... ------------------ Shandy Lawson Folk-noir Ballads and Acoustic Brawls ShandyLawson.com Shandy's Soundclick
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096
Top 100 Poster
|
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096 |
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bugg Finn: Almost every success story that I hear has a common thread: the musician\band played and played and played until they made some connection with someone who was in a position to help them.
</font> This is a fascinating sentence. What fascinates me is this: many people will read it and think, "Yep, it's all about being at the right place at the right time, and getting a good connection." Others will read it and think, "Yep, it's all about hard work and striving and trying, and beating your brains out until you earn your success." You might have already guessed that I am one of the latter group. I'm sure the history of show business is replete with fabulous stories about singers whose car breaks down in front of some producer's house, and then the producer hears a tape playing while he helps the guy look under his hood and then he signs him and the guy becomes a star the next day. Yeah. Sure. It's like the wonderful story of how Lana Turner got "discovered" sitting at a drug store in Hollywood. A good story but utterly false. But there is enough of a ray of hope in those stories to fool people into thinking that it really works that way. I am equally sure that, for every such story there are HUNDREDS of stories about people who simply work their asses off until it finally pays dividends. Yeah, it probably takes meeting the right person. Yeah, it might mean catching a break. But you have to put yourself in position for that to happen! That's the way life works when you work hard, refuse to compromise, and refuse to give up. It's an old saying, and I have no idea who said it first, but it sure rings true: "isn't it strange how those who work the hardest seem to have the most luck?" It always astounds me--and amuses me--how many people trying to make it as songwriters believe that the key to success is knowing the right people, being in the right Rolodexes, and hanging out at the right places. I guess its easier for some people to pretend that they lack good connections than it is to look in the mirror and admit that they don't have the goods. Bugg, you are looking down a long, rocky road. It's not impossible, but it's gonna be a tough trip. If you want it bad enough, you will find a way to "work it." Best of luck to you. And if you find an easy way to the top, please post it so we can all join you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 367
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 367 |
Truman, Well said...I can't add any more to that. -Danny ------------------ ---------------------- Danny Arena/Sara Light www.SongU.com Songwriting Courses Online
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
|
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574 |
Bugg, My answer to the question (and I paraphrase), "What are the chances that someone who does not perform would be successful in the music business." would be, "The chances are very, very slim." However, put it in perspective. The chances of anyone being successful in the music business, performing or not, are also very, very slim. As Truman said, if you work hard and produce a quality product, then your chances go up. I look at it like this: you need high quality music just to get in the game. Whether you perform or not, how old you are, what you look like, even who you know, none of these will kill your chances of winning--but having a poor product will. So, your chances are small, but they are small for everyone, performer or not. Focusing on improving the quality of your music will increase your chances of success more than anything else you do. Good Luck, Mike ------------------ Mike Dunbar Music
You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 399
Top 500 Poster
|
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 399 |
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bugg Finn: What are the chances, or what is the likelihood that an indie artist, who has no connections to speak of, who is in a terrible location as far as the music industry is concerned (Kansas), and who cannot bear to perform in front of an audience could make a living as a musician? </font> Hey, Bugg, I think Mike made a good point: Your chances are very, very slim, no matter how you go about it. With that in mind, I'd suggest you think about what "success in the music business" means to YOU, and what path would be the best path for YOU to take to get there. I'm in a similar situation to you. I haven't played live since I was in college (many years ago!). While I'm not particularly panic-stricken at the thought of doing so, I am a little self-conscious after all these years. More to the point, I have absolutely no desire, at my age and in my current life-situation, to go out on tour 200 days out of the year. Nor do I want to make videos, have throngs of screaming teenage girls tearing at my clothes , or do any of the other aggravating stuff that is generally demanded of someone who is "successful" in the music business. I just want to sit here, write and record my music (much as you do), and pretty much remain in charge of my own destiny. On top of everything else, most of what I'm writing nowadays are instrumentals -- not particularly good material for getting other artists to cover. So I gave it some thought. I do have a couple of songs that might be good to submit to recording artists, so when an opportunity arises for that type of material, I submit them. And I decided to focus, at least for a time, on placing my music in films and TV shows. The film/TV route is not a particularly easy one to break into, either. There is lots of competition from us "nobodies"; and there is also significant competition from all of the "somebodies" (Sting, Elton John, the Who, etc., etc.). BUT..... Submitting to film/TV is something I can do on my own. Producers, directors, and music supervisors are looking for GOOD songs, not necessarily POPULAR songs. It's a lot easier to get your foot in the door without being a "name." And you don't have to "tour in support of your album" -- you simply have to find the right person and send them a demo. You don't have to play live, because they'll simply use your recording. And if you break into the right places, the pay can be good, and you can also earn continuing royalties over the years. It ain't any EASIER to get into the music business this way. But is is a DIFFERENT sort of way, and one of the few which doesn't require playing live. You need to have good quality recordings, though, because what you send them is 99% of the time what they will actually use in the production. The point being, there is more than one way to skin a cat, if you think outside the box a little bit. Becoming "successful in the music business" does not HAVE to mean "becoming a rock star." Be different. Find what works for YOU and follow THAT path. --- Ed ------------------ http://www.edperrone.com/music/index.shtml http://edperrone.rideonmusic.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 277
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 277 |
I agree with Ed. The people at Taxi call film/TV work the "low hanging fruit". It doesn't pay as well as having Madonna record your song, but it is a lot easier to reach. Not "easy"; just "easier". You do have to be able to deliver the finished product tho.
As for being lucky, I am reminded of my favorite quote from Twyla Tharp's book on creativity: "Luck is generosity going the other way."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12
Casual Observer
|
OP
Casual Observer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12 |
Thank you all for your helpful replies. I guess what you've said is what I expected to hear. As far as what my idea of success is, all I've ever really looked for was the ability to pay my bills (and there aren't many!) by writing music. But if I'm being honest, the idea that a good product always sells eventually is a bit naive. I could list many an artist whose work was not looked at twice until (usually) he died. And many more whose work has never been widely (or even narrowly in many cases)appreciated at all. This goes for authors as well. There are so many incredible artists working today whose work is overlooked. I think what my particular problem boils down to is: I don't like to perform, but I like to think my songs are good. Don't misinterpret this as conceit. What I'm saying is, I write the kind of music I would buy: however, it is also true that the kind of music I buy is not usually the kind of music the masses buy. To break into the songwriting world, it seems to me that one's songs have to be somewhat (now don't take this the wrong way) generic. Un-difficult. As a matter of fact, I think that listening to any top 40 station--pop, country, or otherwise--is disheartening and stupefying. 99% of it is complete garbage. But this is garbage that generates mountains of wealth for those who create it. Well, I've gotten totally off the subject now. I'm just venting. I think that basically the success of my particular music depends upon its being performed by myself. I guess it just doesn't work any other way. I have a hard time believing Jeff Buckley, for example (though I am not comparing myself to him) could have landed a songwriting gig to save his life. Jeff Buckley songs only make sense coming from Jeff Buckley. Likewise, Bugg Finn songs probably won't make sense unless they come from Bugg Finn. But the question is, is there even any room left for those of us who are somewhat self-indulgent, with our devil-may-care attitude towards modern songwriting conventions? I don't know. But I like to think so. I'll just work on performing my own material. But I'll tell you this much. If tomorrow I found some kid with a voice, a guitar, and a penchant for attention, I would give him my songs in a heartbeat. I just want to make music. Why is it so hard to make a living doing what you love? Anyway. Let's get down to brass tacks. A couple of you have stressed that the quality of the songs is paramount. I agree. You seem like a group of people with a good amount of knowledge and wisdom in this area. So let me borrow some of it. Give a listen to my songs, if you will. Listen with a critical ear. I'm not fishing for compliments here, and I'm very aware that my kind of music does not appeal to everyone. Basically, think of them as though they were your own, and you were trying to decide where to go from here. What would you do? Hit the bars and coffee houses? Submit to publishers? Give me some realistic advice. I need it. ------------------ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/buggfinnmusic.htm
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096
Top 100 Poster
|
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,096 |
I mentioned on another thread here that I frequently see professional songwriters in Nashville doing writer's nights around town. They play their hits, which I guess you might describe as "un-difficult," "disheartening," or, perhaps, even "stupefying." But these same people also play their "other" songs--the ones that do not get cut, and probably never will. Some of these songs are quite impressive, mostly because they are written by pros who REALLY know what they are doing. They write both types of songs (commercial/non-commercial) because they are songwriters and that's what they do. It takes lots of talent to do either, even more to do both.
You might want to consider spending some of your creative time trying to write songs that connect powerfully with people's emotions (after all, that is all a hit record really is). You might find that you have the knack of turning your creative energy into enough money to finance the writing you REALLY want to do. People are doing this. It might be worth a try.
|
|
|
We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.
|
|
Forums117
Topics125,717
Posts1,160,950
Members21,470
|
Most Online37,523 Jan 25th, 2020
|
|
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
|
|
|
|