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I'm so confused....

I received what me and my husband now refer to as a "dump letter" from a Nashville producer today. They kept the CD but returned my cover letter with the following comment:

"Thank you for the effort but we must pass on your submission. Too many cooks sometimes spoil the stew. Try writing alone or with your favorite cowriter. Don't take anyone's advice unless they are successful professionals."

Anybody out there have insight into the above comment? There were a total of three co-writers on the songs I sent. Do they not want to deal with more than one, possibly two, writers? It dosn't effect the money end because the co-writers split equally out of the "writer's share" if there's any money to be made. Or maybe they were saying the songs sucked because there were "too many cooks in the kitchen"?

Thoughts? This really puts a damper on my thoughts of hooking up with different folks for collabs....or maybe not. Who are they to tell us not to flex our creative muscles by learning from other writers/musicians?




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Rebecca

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Relating to the rewriting of lyrics --"Son, it ain't done until its cut--and then it ain't DONE 'til its a hit"
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Dale, that must be disheartening. I really don't understand that attitude at all. Many many many songs have 3 and 4 co-writers.

The way I look at it is, they have no way of knowing what part of the song was your contribution... but they are implying that your co-writer(s) aren't as good as you are. I've seen the work you've been doing, I think it's great.

My best advice to you would be to get a Taxi critique on a couple of the songs and see what they have to say. Or use John Braheny. Frankly, I wouldn't put much stock in a dump letter.

Given that many professionals like John Braheny recommend writing "up" when you collaborate, it doesn't make any sense to me at all that someone would turn down a good song because of the number of writers. Feels like B.S. to me!!!

You just keep doin' what you're doing!! It's gonna pay off one day soon!!
cheers
Vikki

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Vikki Flawith, Canadian Singer/Songwriter & Voice Teacher

This bird sings at:
http://www.soundclick.com/vikkiflawith
www.vikkiflawith.com

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Hey Rebecca,

I had some unusual replies when I sent out some demo cd's last year...

IMO, It sounds like that it is just one publishers opinion. Maybe the song wasn't what he was looking for...Could be he has better luck dealing with 2 people on a song. Nashvilles trend seems to lean toward cowriting so I wouldn't worry so much....

Just keep going, keep sending out your work where ever you can.

Kathy

Hummingbird,

Thanks for those kinds words. I'm not going to give up but I've had a bad few days here in a row. Another letter I received said basically not to let all these organizations (Taxi, NSAI, etc.) get in the way of writing what's in your gut.

Maybe these folks feel like when they're "Dumping on you" they need to give you some advice as well. For some reason, I feel like I'm reading little slips of paper from a fortune cookie!

Kathy,

I thought co-writing was "the thing" right now as well.

I've sent out about 30-40 demos in the last two weeks so I guess I better keep a stiff upper jaw. At least it's given my husband something to look forward to. He takes them to the post office and then he LOVES to check the mail each day to see if they've returned my "SASE" with a dump letter and words of wisdom scribbled across them! He was really excited today because there were THREE!

Now I'm going to have some cheese with this whine.

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Rebecca

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Relating to the rewriting of lyrics --"Son, it ain't done until its cut--and then it ain't DONE 'til its a hit"
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It shouldn't matter how many cowriters there are as long as the song comes together as one coheasive unit. If the song is good, it's good. If lyrics fit the mood and pace of the melody, and the result is better than what you think one or two of you could accomplish, then stick with it.

All you can really determine from this letter is that the song didn't knock their socks off. The reason they gave may be just a guess as to why. They might have had some previous bad experience with a large collaboration and were biased before they even listened. I often can't really tell why a song doesn't grab me. Don't even start to worry unless you've gotten a few dozen more rejections.

Rebecca,

I'm glad I saw this... What you got back from them was hard-core-nonsense!
Stupid comment! The only way to justify that is to first explain why you are making and ass backwards remark or Quote like that..

Maybe the moron meant well - I see you write the lyrics and so & so does this & someone else does that.. And we feel there is something in your lyrics but we didn't feel we liked the melody. Also the music felt dated (just an example) blah blah blah..

Then the fools has the B-lls to say "Don't take anyone's advice unless they are successful professionals."
Who like him? I'm curious about this producer.

Cant think of any reason for someone to reply with that unless you wrote a letter saying "I listen to what everyone else tells me to do and this is from all of us to you..

Dont focus much on that letter focus on different places to send to..

Thanks for sharing I needed that!

Peace
Sub

[This message has been edited by substudio (edited 03-02-2006).]

A comment like that is a cop out. It's them being too lazy to tell you the truth about why they don't like it. It doesn't mean it's a great song, but it does indicate they can't be bothered to spend the time or they want to avoid direct conflict with you, so they brush it off and point to your format as the reason. I wouldn't trust them going forward to handle things professionally with you or others they are pitching too. They sound lazy or clueless.

Brian

Brian,

Or, it may be that they have a "history" with one of the co-writers?

Writing with a "problem child" can be the kiss of death for a deal. Producers and publishers don't want to fool with a song if they know one of the writers can be a headache, but they certainly don't want to put that reason into writing (yeah they might win the lawsuit, but why go through it.)

Yes, it could be a lazy cop out, but this could also be the case.

Mike


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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Don't be confused.
I've personally given up on trying to please anyone.
Put it away in the /Idontunderstand file in your mental computer and move on.

I believe it was a cop out too.

What? Did he think you Were you writing with a UNfavorite Co-writer?
That's just stupid..

I've heard both sides of the argument on writing solo. I still prefer to write solo.

Ive heard both sides of the demo argument.
Stripped down simple demo or fully produced for the moron who can't hear the simple demo.

Ive heard I was outside the box..
But sometimes they are looking for that.
Just not now..
When..
Who..
Where..

I think we should just stop trying to make ourselves crazy with what we THINK others want to hear and try to be an original.
So if your trying to be a original then eventually that will come through to the right person at the right time.
Being true to yourself..
Someone will just get it eventually.

Keep plugging away..
cause What's the Alternative..

David

Songs get passed on all the time. Even the most sucessful writers are rejected. I used to send a Padded SASE for return of my material. People didn't use them. I switched to a SASE Business Envelope. Very few used them either. I no longer send a SASE. I figure if they want my song bad enough they will contact me. All my contact info is included on everything. It is less expensive to use a new CD or Tape than pay for return of your material. And besides, why pay for someone to send a stupid remark. For those that have never replied to me over the years I have written up a "Nasty Gram" I am going to begin sending out. If it costs 2 or more bucks to send a submission, they can spend 50 cents for a reply.

Mike,

Sure, they could be rejecting it because of a co-writer or a million other reasons. The point is why not just say "sorry.. the song isn't good enough or what we're looking for" rather than deflect the blame as if it's just a matter of having less co-writers and then it would be okay? That's stupid reasoning. If Dolly had 4 co-writers on "I will always love you" I doubt they'd write back and tell her "too many cooks ruin the stew." Either the song fits their need or not.

Now, there's one more cynical possible explanation. That is that they are hoping to somehow screw the writer over and if they have a bunch of co-writers, it's less likely they will ALL fall for the scam. Scam artists like to work on screwing 1 person and don't want the risk of dealing with a bunch. To me, it's as likely that is the case as there's a particilar writer they don't like.

Either way, I wouldn't waste time on them. Perhaps they are simply not wanting to directly hurt your feelings by telling you the song itself doesn't cut it. But how can you deal with that type of company in the long run. Get to the point/fact and move on. They didn't do that.

Brian

Rereading the original post, I'm still struck by a few things.

For one, they did reject the song itself. The first thing they did was give it a "pass." Also, they don't suggest simply writing alone, they suggest writing "with your favorite cowriter" which tends to eliminate preying on a single individual Then they suggest against taking peoples' advice who are not successful professionals...could be leading up to a scam, I guess, but it sounds like the kind of suggestion we'd make here at JPF.

I'm not saying it's not a scam, I don't have enough info to make that call. I do remember, however, having a legit publisher, MTM (Mary Tyler Moore) here in Nashville recommend that I do less cowriting. Of course they heard songs I had cowritten and songs which were all mine, they liked my solo songs better.

Brian's probably right, but I'd like more info before I'd blow these folks off. Is this a major producer? Are they asking for money? Are they connected with a major artist or label? Are they looking for publshing or to sell you a demo? After answering these questions, then I'd decide whether they were a waste of time.

If you can determine they are legit, then keep pitching to them. If not, forget 'em.

As to your question, no, the number of cowriters will not stop a deal, unless someone is encumbering the song. As to your rhetorical question "Who are they..." I don't know, who are they? Maybe they know what they're talking about, maybe they're scams. Keep us posted.

All the Best,
Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Mike,

I said a "cynical" way to look at it is that it could just be a scam. I am happy not knowing who this company is because it's not my goal to trash a company. But I believe that if people say a song doesn't cut it and the reason it doesn't is that "too many cooks spoil the stew" then that is useless feedback. They should have said "the story doesn't flow" or "the story shouldn't shift from first person to third person and back and forth" or "the language and descriptive terms aren't consistent (like shifting from street language to kings english) etc. etc. etc. That's specific feedback if you are rejecting a song. But why give an irrelevent rejection comment without explanation?

The company might be top notch all-stars in their field. But whoever wrote that comment couldn't be bothered to simply be straight forward, relevent and specific. Why spend more time with them?

Brian

[This message has been edited by Brian Austin Whitney (edited 03-05-2006).]