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#195778 11/13/05 12:35 PM
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Hey, Do you have to have a "bridge" in every song you write? I'm thinking no? I'm not sure. I'd like to hear from you on this. You look at an old song like "Stand By Me", I don't think there is a "bridge", nevertheless a great song. A lot of the songs I write do not contain a "bridge", if needed, I need to start working on that aspect. Thanks.terribob

#195779 11/13/05 03:06 PM
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Hi, terribob,

Many great songs do not have bridges. All songs do not need to have a bridge. It depends on what the writer is trying to say.

However, that being said, I do think that it is in a writer's best interest to know how to write effective bridges. Some of the greatest ever written songs have powerful bridges.

A bridge should be the climax or highlight of the song...summing up the main idea...remember, the bridge can be an instrumental, or it can have lyrics.

Write on!

Emily
emilysanders.net
http://cdbaby.com/cd/emilysanders
http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=3217791

#195780 11/13/05 03:15 PM
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I'm not trying to pick on you, but if you have to ask this question, you are probably approaching songwriting from the wrong perspective.

The point is to communicate your thoughts and feelings to others in such a way that it will affect their thoughts and feelings. The point is NOT to follow rules and regulations.

It is good to know about song structure and other aspects of songcraft. Knowing this stuff helps you to accomplish your goal (see above). Songcraft is the sum of what has been used before and what works. Learn it. Use it to your advantage. Then do whatever YOU think you should.

And have fun.

To answer your question: no. You do not have to have a bridge in every song...or in any song. If the song needs a bridge to help effectively communicate your thoughts, then--by all means--write a bridge.

#195781 11/13/05 03:39 PM
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Thank you Emily and Truman. I asked this question for a couple of reasons. First, I read on here, "great bridge, the way you worked it in", so I thought I might be missing something. Second, I sent off my song "Life Goes On", which you may have listen to listed on here. Sent it to a publisher, who said they like it but I needed to work on the structure of the song. I definitely need more experience in the writing department, and I'm workin on it.Thanks again for the reply.terribob

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#195783 11/14/05 12:23 PM
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Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by terribob:
Thank you Emily and Truman. I asked this question for a couple of reasons. First, I read on here, "great bridge, the way you worked it in", so I thought I might be missing something. Second, I sent off my song "Life Goes On", which you may have listen to listed on here. Sent it to a publisher, who said they like it but I needed to work on the structure of the song. I definitely need more experience in the writing department, and I'm workin on it.Thanks again for the reply.terribob

</font>


I went to your site and listened to the first three songs and I believe you have the makings of a good songwriter.Just because you don't know all the terminology for the song structure,does not mean that you can't write.That can be learned,natural ability is a gift,keep writing and those little gems will come along every now and then.The song will speak to you and you will know if you need a bridge or not,even if you don't know what to call it.LOL

Everett


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

www.cdbaby.com/all/eca333

www.showcaseyourmusic.com/newsflashsounds
#195784 11/14/05 01:24 PM
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Everett, Thanks so much for your comment. I love writing songs. Thanks for listening to my songs. I don't know a lot about the "art", but I do beleive the best part of the "art' comes from the heart. I appreciate all of your comments, all very constructive for me. As a matter of fact, it "pumped" me up some. terribob
Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ECA333:
I went to your site and listened to the first three songs and I believe you have the makings of a good songwriter.Just because you don't know all the terminology for the song structure,does not mean that you can't write.That can be learned,natural ability is a gift,keep writing and those little gems will come along every now and then.The song will speak to you and you will know if you need a bridge or not,even if you don't know what to call it.LOL

Everett
</font>

#195785 11/14/05 10:13 PM
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Good responses!

And, let the song tell you what it should have.

John Daubert


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#195786 11/14/05 10:41 PM
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Hi terribob, I think you asked and answered
your question in your post above. :-)

To add my short answer: It depends on the
song.

I think it's a pretty good idea to try to
write a bridge for every verse/chorus
song if you can, if for nothing else but
good practice.

There's another reason, too. It's better to
write a bridge for a song that a publisher
likes, and for him/her to say, "I'll take
the song, but it doesn't need that bridge",
than to have a song without one, and for the
publisher to say, "I would take it if you can
write a good bridge for it." Boy Scouts motto: "Be prepared."

Phil

#195787 11/15/05 11:18 AM
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Dhsongs and Phillipe Thanks for taking the time to respond. terribob

#195788 11/15/05 12:48 PM
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Terribob:We are all in this together,we should help and encourage our fellow songwriters.We all went through a learning curve and some of us had to learn the hard way,so why not help when we can,who knows,the one you help today may be able to help you tomorrow.Sounds like an idea for a song.LOL

Everett


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

www.cdbaby.com/all/eca333

www.showcaseyourmusic.com/newsflashsounds
#195789 11/15/05 07:06 PM
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Again thanks, I'd be glad to help anyone out, if I could. I could at least give an opinion. I guess that's why we're all on here.terribob
Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ECA333:
Terribob:We are all in this together,we should help and encourage our fellow songwriters.We all went through a learning curve and some of us had to learn the hard way,so why not help when we can,who knows,the one you help today may be able to help you tomorrow.Sounds like an idea for a song.LOL

Everett
</font>

#195790 12/12/05 12:02 AM
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in regards to a "bridge." no, there is no "set rule" about having to have a bridge. as a songwriter, you will "sense" when you need to have one. a bridge is just what it's title says it is....it takes you from one side of the story and crosses you over to the other side with more information than is provided in the verses. i worked with "shelia davis" in a number of her workshops. i too use to ask do i have to have a bridge. it will come with time. you will sense and learn when and if you need a bridge. good luck with your writing.


michael
#195791 12/12/05 01:26 PM
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im not even sure what a bridge is so i cant help you in that aspect...but i do think that writing from your heart and making sure you communicate your feeling to the listener effectively are important factors to being happy with your work, regardless of rules and regulations.

just my unprofessional opinion

nick



------------------
If you give them the tools, you give them a chance.
ngb


If you give them the tools, you give them a chance.
ngb
#195792 12/12/05 03:10 PM
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Hi Man,

Others have answered your question,
A couple of things that may help,
# one a song is made y up of musical phrases. Try and vary where you start those phrases, for instance, in your verse you may tend to start on the first beat (4/4 time).anywhere apart from the first beat is called a pick up point,
You may have a pre chorus, if so vary the start off point here say the third beat,
this will give the song a contrast, and also vary the length of each phrase an example would be phrases of seven notes in the verse, longer phrases in the pre chorus.

Launch into your chorus say starting on the second beat , a good example here is to sing over " Hotel California " the verses start on anticipation of the second beat (a pick up)
The chorus starts on the first beat
It's just an example of endless permutations .
# two
Also vary your chord count per measure
You may have two chords per measure (generally) in your verse Then use one per measure in The chorus.

A Bridge can give you a rest from the song
making the return refreshing, in a bridge it is a modern idea to temporarily modulate into another key, here you would find a pivot chord that is natural to both keys i.e. the home key and the Modulating key.

I would not pitch your songs till you have written and perfected the art, a Professional Active Publisher, would know in thirty seconds if your song is any good.

Get Honest feed back from other writers , writers you respect for what they have written, it is rare that many people can do lyrics and music well increase your chances and find a collaborator.

From your question as Trueman says, You need
to read books and study Hits, before you waste money on demos's, we are not talking down to you, just giving you the benefit of our experience.

There will come a time when you wont need advice from message Forums when you reach that stage, you are ready to pitch quality songs, You must work at it like everyone who has success and keep an open mind on others points of view.

Get a very good knowledge of every chord in the book, use Substitution by function,
Slash Chords for example C/D bass
Chord/ Inversions, Sus. four chords.
Borrow from minor keys, learn many scales
Blues, Major, all of the minor keys.
Phygrian, Dorian , Aeolian,

Your Bridge question is just a small part of the overall knowledge needed to be successful.
Excuse me if you know part of this , but it will be very useful to others, I have to remind myself constantly of all the above, we can learn something new every day as the saying goes Amateurs Play at it
And Professionals Work at it.
If you want to E Mail me I will be happy to try and answer other questions and help in any way I can

Sincerely Ben

#195793 12/16/05 03:06 PM
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Amremt6--Appreciate your response. I like the no set rule.

Nicholaus--Agree with "From the Heart"

Ben--Thank you for the very informative response.

#195794 12/17/05 06:20 AM
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I approached songwriting originally in the traditional way.
4 beat, break, chorus, bridge, etc.
It got to the point where it bored the crap out of me.
I also did a lot of smut type of rock.
Not really profane, but more in the same vein as Golden Earring, The Rolling Stones, The J. Geils Band, and The Tubes.
It's the type of stuff I actually play the best and I am returning to those influences.
That was fun 4 beat rock.
From what I have seen from the history of the music scene is that there was nothing really innovative about doing things the way other "professionals" were.
In fact, legends like Bob Dylan were scoffed at through the musical community.
You would be surprised how many musicians have made it through the underground that were considered musically inept by the pros.

So why can't a song be just as good un-abridged?
There are a lot of popular acts that actually recreate songs un-abridged.

In some rock albums, I have found many un-abridged songs.
Where there was no part standing out above the other.
And they were usually short 2 minute pieces.

Maybe you could do something revolutionary and write a whole album of un-abridged songs.

I do some of the most out of sync stuff musically and some people actually like it.

But if you are talking about what is professionally accessible, there are popular acts doing un-abridged songs.

Matt

#195795 12/17/05 08:05 PM
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What is the definition of bridge? I think its a passage that connects two movements. i.e. like between a versre and a chorus. Abridged has a different meaning and it means to shorten. "Bridges? We don't need no stinkin bridges."

#195796 12/17/05 10:05 PM
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"Where's that confounded bridge!!"--Led Zeppelin, "The Crunge" Go where the muse takes you,weed-hopper.

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bc
#195797 12/18/05 02:11 AM
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Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by heen-man:
What is the definition of bridge? </font>


Who knows? But here is an example:

(Springsteen version)
VERSE
You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why

CHORUS
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

VERSE 2
He's making a list
Checking it twice
Gonna find out who's
Naughty and nice

CHORUS
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

BRIDGE
He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good, for heaven's sake

Got it?

#195798 01/06/06 05:44 AM
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A bridge in my opinion is a part of a song where you can let go of the form restraints that you suffer whilst writing the choruses and verses, a part which doesn't have to follow a pattern. So i guess it can be thought of as an extra bit, so no, not compulsory, but definately fun and useful if you wish to get more thoughts across.
Dreamer [Linked Image]

#195799 01/06/06 09:05 AM
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Well put Dreamer!

We all get into patterns, and some provide structure to work with, but it is good to provide for that lateral or "post script" thought that might tie the chorus and verses together.

#195800 01/06/06 12:08 PM
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In fact, a bridge is a piece of the pattern
and element of the form contraints in lyric
structure.

"Verse Chorus Verse Chorus Bridge Chorus"
is just an alternate form of "Verse Chorus
Verse Chorus".

Within a bridge itself there is the form
constraint of keeping it from 2 to 4 lines.
At least 95% of bridges in commercial music
follow this guideline.

So what's the point? It's to encourage
writers to use the box of song structure
as a tool to stretch your creativity. To
see just what you can do inside the box.

It isn't always easy to do, which is why so
many beginning writers take the easy way out
and write outside the box because it's
"just too confining". So they write verse
one with 9 lines and verse two with 4 lines,
and a bridge with 7 lines and wonder why
their songs aren't going anywhere. Or they
write obscure lyrics because it's not always
easy to write a lyric that's conversational
yet rhymes, has a clear message, is clever
but not too clever, and that actually has
something to do with the title.

Remember, the box is your friend. :-)

Phil

#195801 01/06/06 04:53 PM
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A bridge is the part of the song where you do something different musically so as to distract the listener from realizing that the music used in the verse or verse/chorus section is starting to get boring.

In the golden days of songwriting, somewhere between 1949 and 1950, when all the songs were written by Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, and the Gershwins, the bridge was initially called a relief... as in it relieved the listener from the mounting musical tension created by the previous verses.

But with the subsequent outpouring of new songwriters in later years (as of the 2000 census, there are now more songwriters than people living in most states), they decided to change the terminology to bridge when it was discovered that the true relief for the listener came at the END of most songs.

The rule of thumb is, do something twice, add a bridge, and then finish up once with what you previously did twice (as evinced in the venerable AABA form that arose when somebody realized AAA was better suited to dry cleaning and automotive services).

If you find yourself getting to a bridge after doing something only once, well... you don't understand song structure... or your verse/chorus music is REAAAALLLY boring... or what you're calling a bridge isn't truly a bridge, merely an allegedly clever device that you've convinced yourself works because, after all, you're a great songwriter and don't need to constrain yourself in such an artificial manner to standard song forms.

Does every song NEED a bridge? Well, yes and no. That's one of the hard and fast rules that all songwriters are morally obligated to follow, and which was strictly enforced during the Middle Ages by the Catholic Church... which explains why nowadays most of the best songwriters are Jews and Protestants.

Bridges can be short and sweet, like those favored by composers in Madison County, or the songwriter can really display his prowess and write a bridge long enough to require a toll booth, in lieu of royalties.

Hope this helped!


[This message has been edited by RobertK (edited 01-06-2006).]

#195802 01/07/06 02:22 AM
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J
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Most of my songs do not have bridges. The song that is my favorite and the one I perform the most has no bridge, but it has a two-line add-on after the ABCB(DD). I have a few songs with bridges but I go by no rules...it's a feeling for me.


J
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#195803 01/07/06 02:30 PM
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A bridge is a great thing to get you across a river,but if you don't want to cross that river,you don't need that bridge.It's the same with songs,some need bridges,some don't.You will know if you need a bridge or not.

[This message has been edited by ECA333 (edited 01-07-2006).]


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