JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Who do you accept critique from?

I have a provocative question:Who do you accept critique from?
Out of lifetime experience, now I would only accept critique from people with proven credits in the industry.Like having Grammy award, Platinum record(:
Fellow budding songwriters may or maynot be biased by out of politesse or jealousy.Therefore they intentionally/unintentionally(*delete wichever doesn't apply)push you under and or hold back your carrier.
I wouldn't be writing this here, now, if I was that clever when I was young(:
Opinions please.
Attila

I forgot to include this: Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that,but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. -Mark Twain

That is one of the reasons I'm a member of TAXI. I can't get honest critiques from peers. But it is a rather expensive way to go.

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www.stonemarmot.com
Alternative pop-rock
"trying to make pop-rock respectable again" (as if it ever was)

people who would alter their criticism of you out of "jealousy" aren't your friends.

i've cultivated a small group of people whose opinions i trust - and i go to them for help rather than trusting a stranger on the internet who might not understand my end goal the way someone who *knows* me can.

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kit malone
http://www.kitmalone.com

[This message has been edited by kit (edited 09-15-2003).]

I accept a critique that "makes sense" to me and makes the song "better" to me.


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Mike Dunbar Music

Exactly, Mike. If I were to place artificial limits on whose opinions I listen to, I would miss some very sound input. I appreciate ALL opinions of my work. I ignore most of it, but that is the writer's prerogative.

When I used to work in an office, I used to run my lyrics by everyone--the switchbord operators, the secretaries, the accountants. They knew nothing about songcraft, and cared nothing for vivid verbs and fresh adjectives, and clever rhymes; but they knew if a song "got" to them. They knew if the words made sense or if they were confusing. They knew if the characters in the song were likable, sympathetic, whiny, co-dependent or whatever. Anyone with ears and a heart can help you with your songs. After all, they are the ultimate jury--if you should ever be fortunate enough to get a record of your song out there.

If envious people try to drag you down, ignore them. It's easy.

Yeah...

If you're gonna start being selective about who you accept critiques from, you're obviously brilliant and what the hell are you doing here ?

Gee...how come my "lifetime experience" didn't make me as smart as you ?

Bob

I am for not being overly selective about excepting critiques.. although I will expect a different kind of critique or opinion from those different sources.. An everyday reader/listener can help me to see if I have gotten my point across, if there is one. A fellow songwriter can do the same, in addtion offer opinions on the technical end.
So... if you are willing to listen... I am willing to share
Joanne

Interesting question.
I 'accept' critique from anyone who offers. I haven't yet achieved the level of success where I can comfortably sit back & be selective about who I listen to. It is important, in my opinion to listen to what the listener says. They'll be honest, given the chance. After all, increasing attendance at our shows, increasing cd sales, increasing interest from A&R, increasing interest from press reps - are all goals that cannot be achieved if we selectively shut out certain input.

I've learned some valuable things through the years from reading between the lines of what people say after a listen to my cd's &/or a show. It took me quite a while to accept that maybe doing a couple different things I had consciously avoided doing would maybe be a good thing to do. It helped, in the long run.

Do I have a long way to go? H*ll yeah! Am I going to change for every piece of input I get? H*ll no! But, I'll never stop listening to what they have to say, either.

Jeff

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"Don't forget to dance." The Kinks
javamusik.com

Never was an opinion not woth pondering.
What use we make of any of them, is a matter of opinion.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

One part of Joanne's comment really rang a bell of truth. An "everyday reader/listener" is actually the one who will hear your successful lyric, hence they have value.

The question I remain to have about the initial post here is that of wondering who-the-hell the Grammy Award winner is who would take the time to critque lyrics of others?
Would Keb Mo give me so much as the time of day????
Should he? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

-gp

Yep Keb would.
Lucky Oceans would. Has several times.
Lee Oskar too.
Being a Grammy winner don't make them A holes. But A holes do win stuff too.
Just the same as some don't.
But good point on the everyday folks. After all they are the ones we hope will want to hear us all hard enough for the grammys to come pouring in.
One of the reasons I say, if it don't sound as if it would live live. it probably isn't.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

I know quite a few Grammy winners.. they are no more or less qualified or ABLE to make constructive suggestions than anyone else. It MIGHT be an indicator that they have some experience.. but seasoned pro's don't always make for great teachers or educators. I am not sure I would value the lyric critique from Britney Spears more than Mike Dunbar. Grammy or not..

Brian

I agree with Brian, so long as we are talking critiques and not tongues.<g>

dawg

But Brian, Britney never won any Grammys.. I wonder why? hmmmm

Some really great critiques have come my way from surprising places...So, I don't have a
pre-conceived notion about the source of the comments...I just know that there are times when I do not change my art just because someone else wants it to change...

But, there have been times when I had to trust the person who made a fabulous suggestion that I never would have come up with. For instance, the producer of my CD that I am working on consistently suggests things that really help make the music better..He brings out the absolute best in my songs and I always listen to his critiques!

Emily

Maybe just consider the source, say thank you and move on. Stay open minded and as Mike mentioned if what they suggest can make the song better, consider that suggestion thoughtfully. Try to look at what the people are saying rather than the way they are saying it. Some people will point out the negative aspects. Some will point out the positive. Both can be very helpful.

JeanB

It appears to me that some didn't get my point.
The question is that: how would you know if a critique is honest or it's aimed against your craft.Did you ever dropped a project due to a critique and later realized that the problem didn't lie at your song but rather with your critic.

What is the point in blind leading the blind?

I don't think it's merely a case of "the blind leading the blind" when referring to a non songwriting giving their thoughts on a song... If someone is listening to one of my songs and then start drawing up their grocery shopping list in their head or planning dinner menus for the week, then it's a no brainer that the song isn't working... Thats an important feedback to get. Again.. as far as specifics regarding song structure, I would leave that to those who know about the craft of songwriting...
A writer AND a listener are both important resources of constructive criticism(sp )
Joanne

I'm not sure there's much I can add that hasn't already been said. Personally, I'll accept critique from anyone who bothers to take the time. I think anyone can offer good criticism because everyone listens to music. As to knowing if it's good or not, I think that falls on you. I think you have to run any criticism you recieve through your own mind, your own vision, and decide whether any suggestions fit with what you want to do. In the end any alterations to your song are up to you and you have to decide what criticism to take and which to ignore. Hm... I think I may have said pretty much the same thing a few times up there, but that's okay. I guess my basic point is, you're the writer, you have to decide what's worth listening to. Okay, I'm going to shut up before I repeat myself again. Carry on as you were.

Thanks for the contibutions.
All I wanted to bring up is that taking crique can lead to confusion.How can you weed out the bad comments from the useful?
And I didn't want to offend anyone.I should have sayed "wisdom" instead of being"clever".
One thing is clear and that's what I expected:You live in a heaps better community than Iam.

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Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that,but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. -Mark Twain

Attila,
I love that Mark Twain quote, most applicable here.
I think you must roll with the punches (critiques) as they come. If the critique is confusing or seems out of line/off base, then it probably is just that. If you have the song buzzing in your head and it's working, I wouldn't let an extremely derailing critique bother you. Reading a lyric is only half the game... hearing the song and how the lyric is working is the other half. Eh?

-Gary

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Attila:
[B]I have a provocative question:Who do you accept critique from?

I accept critiques with good grace from everyone....even the uninvited...but I only ask for a critique when I myself am questioning something....those critique's that resonate within, striking that chord that I'm already playing, are the ones I pay attention to.