JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum How Do You Measure Success

I was recently in touch with an English based Publisher, He had a Web site that had some Promising Song Titles, we have at this time
A slow web connection, so I asked him if it was possible for a C.D.
Of songs for a certain Artist, we are managing , who at that time was virtually unknown as a recording Artist, The Publisher mentioned a Certain guitarist who had had found fame in the sixty,s, and it was common knowledge that since that time he had had a career (like many of us do) not in the Main Spotlight, but making a comfortable living doing what they enjoy, when I mentioned this, the Publisher who was obviously an associate of this Very good Guitarist, went ballistic, his E Mail quotes got very heated , and he was saying for example, “Johnny Big Licks, has had more success than you could ever dream of”, and equally hurtful things, now the Publisher new nothing about myself , owing to the fact that I only gave him my real name and not my stage name, I had actually hired this guitarist for a U.K. tour, I knew the man ,and yes he was in demand a lot as a backing musician, but not as a composer, and the latter was the angle I had contacted the Publisher to find songs from writers who could write hits.

This got me thinking about success, it can mean different things to different people, I have had stage success, and still do when I take the band out on the road , for occasional. Short tours

I personally would not put my Stage career any where near my Family
Successes , coming from a family of eight children we have always kept in touch , and married to one lovely lady for forty years, we produce Four beautiful children who (now grown up) all do their own thing, they all keep in touch and come over for visits, when they can, One son is in the Music business, doing what he enjoys, Performing and teaching guitar and vocals.
The others have different occupations, and they are all individuals, of character .

My wife and I live in the country, we have literally built or renovated four different homes , we are individuals with similar likes and dislikes
That to me is success , the rest is short lived glory, that we don’t ever brag about, or use for any kind of one up manship, if it comes into general conservation, it’s used because it’s a topic that interests us or others.
There is so much jealousy in the world of show business, it is unbelievable, I can remember a touring stage show I was part of , back in the seventy’s I used to close the first half of the show, and every night my act went really well, My mixture of songs and short story’s was something I had worked on and honed for years, I got on with the backing band and they always played well for me. I enjoy singing and performing, and I know that sincerity come across.

Every night the Top of the Bill, an act who had stolen bits from every one else in the music business, died on his arse, consequently he never had a good word to say to me, he hated me and tried unsuccessfully to turn the other acts against me. It didn’t worry me, I always thought of my wife and children at home, who I would see in a few days between shows for a couple of days.
I have met many people like this in the business, many times ,and It make me sad when you hear young people talking , who have been knocked out of the early stages of American Idol, They feel like their life is over because they have been rejected, when in fact their life is only just beginning.
As someone once said in a song maybe it was Johnny Cash .

“When you count the measure of a mans success, don’t count fame count happiness”.

Was I lucky in finding the right person to spend my life with, maybe , but I prefer to say I was more astute than others , when I was looking for someone , there had been many others, good looking girls with not much in the way of brain power, however I believe Luck is something we make for ourselves, and when it presents its self, it’s knowing if this is the direction we want to take our lives in.
That’s my take , I would be pleased to hear any of your views as well.

Split Level.

Money or fame does not always spell success. How many successful people are unhappy,using drugs,etc,suffering marriage breakups,etc.

Sounds like you know what success is.You are doing what you love,you are with the woman you love,you are content with your life.I believe God has a perfect woman for every man and vis versa,sometimes we are too impatiant and can't wait for her/him to come along,we get lust confused with love and end up with the wrong partner.

I am a songwriter with some success but not a big success financially,I've had a number of cuts,gotten a fair amount of airplay,several song placed high on some small charts,but I've had feedback from people that were really touched by some of my songs,that success you can't beat.I'm still married to my first wife(a gift from God)three grown children and three grand children.I am getting up there in age and at times I do get frustrated at the slow process in getting my songs out there.I don't perform(other than in church)so I look to singers better than myself to record them. I write 50-100 songs a year,mostly country and Gospel,not saying they are all great but I do believe I have a few that are( but then,don't we all LOL).Money is not my main goal,so I don't judge success on money,(although it is necessary to keep going in this business) it's getting my songs heard and hopefully appreciated.Maybe this is ego,I don't know, but if God give you a gift,I think He wants you to share that gift with others,so maybe that is why people have this desire.

All the best and much more success.

Everett

My personal yardstick to measure things in life is a mental scenario game I often use to make decisions or focus myself.... some people may find it a bit morbid..but hey, it works for me

I just ask myself.... years from now (hopefully), when I'm lying on my deathbed what will I think of whatever I'm deciding.... will I not even remember the decison, will I have regrets about the direction I decide to take, which decision would I be the most proud of.. that kind of thing

This exercise, for me, gives some perspective to life and allows me at times to identify (excuse the expletive) the little [naughty word removed]... the stuff that doesn't really matter... that I won't even remember a year from now.

Sucess for me is, looking at the big picture, the long journey.... will I be proud of the paths that I've taken, the love that I've given, and the human being that I have created of myself.

Anyway, sucess in the music business would be nice, but ...as the old cliche says.... you can't take it with you

and in a less ethereal more straight forward vibe...lol.... I would consider anyone who can achieve, in this crazy business, a full time career as a working musician pretty sucessful. It's a hard life path these days.



[This message has been edited by Christine (edited 06-16-2006).]

For me, Success is getting to Heaven.

Now small "s" success is a different thing. How can one succeed if they don't have a goal? Without a goal, it's not success...it's luck or blessing.

Set goals, work at them, when you hit them, set others. Then you'll be successful.

All the Best,
Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Hi SplitLevel,

I couldn't agree w/Mike Dunbar anymore!!!
Also, if I may add one more thought -

It's only what you give away,
That enriches you from day to day!


Best,
Lynn

That is AMAZING, Christine! I do the same thing. In fact, when making such a decision, I say to myself, "Well, put it to the deathbed test". Sometimes even wondered if a song of that title could be any good. Probably not.

Cool to know I'm not alone!

Scott

[This message has been edited by scott59 (edited 06-16-2006).]

Instead of just being a guitar player, I'm calling myself a singer /songwriter (1st success). Many years of playin in a cover band to solo giggin. My most appreciated success was a time when a person came up behind me at the supermarket and started singing one of my own songs to me. Floored me. I didn't know the guy.
I've been through a wringer a couple of times but I still have some semblence of health. I booked some studio time a while back and had to anticipate the event for a couple of months. Wouldn't cha know it, got the flu at showtime. The success there was that all the mucous; flem; snot and boogars actually added a nice timbre to my voice. I hope they disinfected them mics...

Mike D,

AMEN BROTHER! :-)

Orlando Luckey
www.myspace.com/orlandoluckey

Success for me now more than ever, means how my family thinks of me. I have great kids! Their kids are great! My folks were, with my mom still being great, (alive still). That's success! Having a great family around me all through these years! Friends too!

The rest, whether it's the music business ocncerns, or my piano tuning business, is just business. My trying at either is a success though. Just doing what I feel is right at the time, and giving it a good effort. When money is involved, I think there are too many factors of business to be concerned over any thoughts of final success,,,unless business really floats your boat.

Just being able to play is another great success for me. Getting nice comments from our songs is success of reaching someone that got something out of our music. Enjoyment is success, by all involved!

Health and family and friends!.

So, I now measure success by smiles and laughter around me, whether directed at me, or with me, or just my smile at all the positive things and people I can think about.

John Daubert

Success is being satisfied with your effort, despite the result.

Truman,

So if at first I don't succeed...it's success?



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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

It depends

They're all succeses! Failures may be just for not trying. "I failed to try at that".

Another point of view of apparent failures that may have been succeses: Thomas Edison, Col. Sanders, Ben Franklin, all had many little successes leading to the next ones and so on, even when something seemed to fail. By finding out what didn't work, and learning from their efforts, they found out what did! How could any of those steps be called failures, if failure is final, which I think is?

John
Points of view I guess, with justifying all.
Whatever works in all our minds.

MONEY!

Money can go out faster than it comes in.

Money can be made from doing things not so legit.

And so on.

Money? EMPTY! Death beds are full of people who won't be counting their money they made as to whether they were a success or not.

But if that's your way of measuring,,,,,I feel sorry for you in the longrun.

John

I don't think money is empty. It's actually a pretty good way to measure business success. And, you can do a lot of good with money. Poor people won't find the cure for cancer or AIDS. We wouldn't have ever heard of either Bono or John Lennon if they were poor musicians.

Of course, money, like power and fame, can have a corrupting element, but it's not the money that corrupts, it's the love of it, or so I've read.

Personally, I've made hundreds of dollars in the music business and am very proud of it.

Money's fine as a goal in business, but not as a goal in life. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Well Mike Dunbar,
I was talking to God about you just the other day.

I have good news and bad news. The good news, you are going to heaven all right.

The Bad news. You can't take your Bass Guitar with you, you will have to learn to play a Harp!

Where I am going I am will to be able to take my Martin! Yippeee!!!

Well Ray,
It looks like we'll be jamming together down there with your Martin and my Yairi. I hope the heat doesn't effect the guitars too much I hear from "Charlie" he's quite the fiddle player too.

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Steve West
Steve's Website

I won't play bass in heaven,
'Cause God gets all the good notes,
Jesus plays the lead guitar,
The drummers the Holy Ghost,
The Angels will sing back up,
As the Saints come marchin' in,
But I won't play bass in heaven,
I'll just leave that up to Him

St. Peter said, welcome Mike,
Just walk on through the gates,
He pulled out a Gibson Mandolin,
That was in a golden case,
I asked him for a P-Bass, but Peter only grinned,
"You won't play bass in Heaven, Mike
We leave that up to Him."

I wondered about Ray's Martin,
'Cause Martin's don't like heat,
Peter told me not to worry, old Ray's Martin's sounding sweet,
"He's over there on cloud nine, Mike,
With Webb and Hank and Roger,
They really love to sing his tunes,
Their band's the Country Codgers."

So now I frail the banjo,
And pick the mandolin,
But I don't play bass in Heaven,
I leave that up to Him.

(spoken)
Well,
gotta stop singing now,
God's gonna take a bass solo,
He sounds just like Victor Wooten, only better.




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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Some Great replies Here,

Dont like the idea that Money ,beyond all else, spells success, because that makes Saddam, a successfull Man,
Money can be, and many times is, the root of all evil,
Too much changes people,
Look at the terrorist goings on in Iraq
and all over the world , nearly
all run by a spoilt bastard with too much money, Bin Laden,

I feel sorry for anyone who worships money .

Have never wanted it and I have always, had more than enough, compared to many in the third world.

Having a family who all get on with each other , and living in a place where I can wake to the sound of the dawn chorus,
and food in the larder, That's success,

Flash Cars, no not for me , a car that runs is all I need.
A bicycle ride. a walk around the forest's , a fishing trip to a lake or river.

The gift of writing songs, creating something with my hands, i.e. House renovation, creating something in the garden, sharing all that with family and friends, That's success.

Split Level .

"When you cut the measure of a mans success
Don't count fame count happiness".
(My Latest Song)

Mike Dunbar,
If you have just written that lyric, you are a talented writer.

And still talented if you wrote it a while back

Split Level.

The question was,how do you(me)measure success.
My answer is money.

What you do with that money and what effect it has on you and others is an entire different set of questions.

Thanks, Split Level, ever run into Jacques Spiry, presiedent of a country music club in Lyon?

I wrote it in about 5 minutes. Just a goofy talent I developed while working for an improvisational comedy group called "the Cereal Killers." I'd get subjects from the audience and write songs on the spot.

Here's my thinking: success is neither good or bad. Saddam was a successful bad guy, until recently.

Also, failure is neither good or bad. Many criminals fail.

Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music



[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 06-17-2006).]

Hi John,

We all have money it's the way we live,
but if someone is left money like Bin Laden, how can he be successfull, when he has achieved only the evil that his twisted
mind believes he needs to do, you can say he blew up the Twin Towers and in his mind they/he did something successfull.

It is only the corruptness of Banks (Successfull Banks) that enable him to keep his funds, so as he can try again.
Yes the question was How Do You Measure Success, you say money, do you mean gaining Money by Scams, Lying to people , or just hard earned Honest Money. ?

I would go along with the last one Honestly Earned.

I appreciate your take on it but it's not clear what you mean , just to say "Money".

Go and write a great song that will make you money, and it will be giving people something they want, as they dont have to buy it,if it's not right for them.
At least it's an honest way for most of us to pay a few bills.

Have A Great Day, Split Level

Hi all,
I was practicing for an upcoming festival last night and a new tune that came to me sounds like it might fit into the discussion.
In terms of musical success, I've heard it defined like this, maybe even here on this board: If you've written a song, you're a songwriter. If you've played it, you're a performer. If you've played it for someone else, you're a successful performer. And to some folks you might be a star!

doug b


One Necessary Thing

Doug Brouder (BMI) (c) 2006

G Am
I got a pair of grandma's pruning shears
C G
they'll suit me very well
(G) they're at least about a (Am) hundred years old sharp as (C) glass
and tough as (G) hell
sharp as (Am) glass (C) and tough as (G) hell

(G) I got a scratched up old (Am) second hand guitar (C)
that's good enough for (G) me
don't need nothin' quite as (Am) fancy as the ones
that those (C) pretty boys play
in tennessee (G)
like those (Am) pretty boys (C) down in tennessee (G)

D Am G D
there's just one necessary thing
(D) it's from the (Am) woman who (G) wears my ring
(D) i can (Am) make do or (G) do without it all except the (Am) love (C)
that she (G) brings
except the (Am) love (C)
that she (G) brings

(G) i got a chevy been (Am) across a state or two
(C) won't never win a (G) race
got dents and history and a (Am) rip there on the seat don't need (C) nothing else
to get me place to (G) place

D Am G D
there's just one necessary thing
(D) it's from the (Am) woman who (G) wears my ring
(D) i can (Am) make do or (G) do without it all except the (Am) love (C)
that she (G) brings
except the (Am) love (C)
that she (G) brings

(D) *I'm surrounded by (Em7) things i don't need and (
D) some i paid dearly to (Em) obtain
(D) i've heard it said all you really need is (Em7) water when you're dry
and a (Am) good roof (C) when it (Em) rains
They say you need a (Am) good roof (C) when it (G) rains

(G) i got a pair of scuffed old (Am) cowboy boots
(C) and some fancy dress up (G) shoes
(G) one pair's just for (Am) dancing with my sweetheart
the (C) other pair is (Am) just for payin' (G) dues

there's just one necessary thing
it's from the woman who wears my ring
i can make do or do without it all except the love
that she brings
just the love
that she brings
that's the only
necessary thing
that's the only necessary thing

www.cdbaby.com/cd/brouder
www.myspace.com/dougbrouderandtheincredibleoccasionals

[This message has been edited by guildslinger (edited 06-18-2006).]

[This message has been edited by guildslinger (edited 06-18-2006).]

Hi Split-level:

Great topic. To me, musical success would be that type of "immortality" achieved by great songwriters and composers. (Hoagie Carmichael for starters!) Not the "flash-in-the-pan" stuff that is popular for a week or two but the stuff that spans generations, even centuries.

Money is not a good measure but would certainly not be turned away at my doorstep.

I like Mike Dunbar's answer best.

Good luck to all. Keep writing.

Dave Rice http://cdbaby.com/cd/daverice

Hi Again Mike,

Funny you should say about Lyon , we are off to that area in July for several dates including a French Wedding.
I will call in and contact them at Lyon Country Club.

If you are over here look me up I'm in Normandy.

Best Split Level

Shouldn't you measure success by
how big the checks are?

there's many ways
my favorites are when people write me or tell me how one of my songs touched them them

one time a person called me and asked if a hymn I wrote could be played at his funeral

ande

Money is the sincerest form of flattery.

Money is like applause except your grocery store won't let you pay for the beans with applause.

I find nothing whatsoever evil about wanting to exchange money for my skills and talents. I don't need a lot, just enough to pay the bills and the occasional treats.

Mind you, if someone called me up and said "we want to pay you an obscene amount for a set or two" I wouldn't turn 'em down (unless it was for a neo-Nazi rally or something like that).


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Howlin' Hobbit
Got Uke?
Howlin' Hobbit's home site
Howlin' Hobbit on MySpace

Unfortunately, success for many is what is defined by the media images they shove down our throats on a daily basis. An artist is unsuccessful if they don't top the charts or sell 10 million albums in the first week.

I would feel successful if all I had to do each day was work on being a better musician. I would feel successful if I knew I could tell my kids they could go to any college they want to. I would feel successful if I knew that, if I got really sick, I could afford to be treated by the most advanced technology without plunging my family in debt that they would never be able to pay off.

Mansions and possessions - how big your car is and how small your cell phone is - it's all so absurd. AIDS is killing millions and the ozone layer is depleting...

Good thing Taylor Hicks is doing all those Ford commercials...

I still say money "honestly earned" from your music.

Playing it,writing it etc.

However,there are zillions of people who have acheived success using my definition that have little or no talent.

Christine.
Your reply pretty well sums up one of my poems which a publisher remembered and liked well enough to ask if it could be used as the closing word in an anthology they were putting out that needed a closing statement.
I agreed and the book sold out.
I will rmember that when searching for things to make me feel good come the time to do so.
Success surely is being contened within, and with yourself justly.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhenderson_music.htm