There's been a lot of emphasis on "quality recording" here lately lol. So, I decided to put on my headphones and re-work this one. I focused mainly on image, depth, and clarity here, please tell me what you think...

https://www.soundclick.com/music/songInfo.cfm?songID=14210396

You seem to have your own style, its like a blend of rock,christian/gospel, blues.

I think it sounds really good. The only thing you need is more melody on top of your tracks.

Like the drum sound, piano might be a bit noticable...

Good stuff, keep fine tuning your style....

recalls...Papa was a rollin' stone.

Good, clean recording Tony. Well done.

I wonder if there's a point when we get too critical? AC/DC can do anything and sound great! I thought "Jet's get born" was awesome, but have you ever really listened to the album?

I think that there is a point where splitting hairs and matters of personal preference become pointless to be concerned with.

Recording and production is also personal preference. Some folks would rather post rough demos of their songs, or their lyrics, cause that is what they are interested in. If the song is splitting hairs, so is the production.

In the end neither the song, nor the production matters, so pick which one you like as a hobby.

ps AC/DC can sound great doing even their worst songs, but they also have dozens of some of the greatest hard rock songs ever written, and might be the greatest hard rock band of all time. They can always go into HIghway To Hell, Shook Me All Night Long, Hells Bells, and balance out their weaker stuff.

Their great songs elevated them.

Jet were a great garage rock band and brought rock music, with guitars back, for a while anyway

I dont really get that.

My songs and productions matter to me or wouldn't bother with them and would do something that did matter to me.

My personal opinion about other people's stuff is helpful to a point...maybe. But there's a point, beyond which, my opinion about your music seems pointless.
This would not be so true if I was a seasoned and proven music producer whose work was tested over and over in the market place...but I am not that. I am a guy with a passionate hobby....feeling his way.

So if I tell you that you should change the 3rd word on the 4th line of the 2nd verse....well...yeah, sure.

Cause neither the song, Nor the recording of the song is going to go anywhere, If you dont have any other goals for it. It will get a few listens, and then get buried under the pile in no time. And live in infamy on soundlick.

So all comments would be pointless right?

But if you listen to someone else's song and not say a word about the song, the performance, the singing, and just say something about the recording of it, that is your unique way of looking at it.

Perhaps the person who wrote the lyrics, feels his role was just as important.

Now, if the goal is to pitch the song, or try for airplay or TV or Movies, then everything matters. Although the sound probably matters more for TV and Movies.

Most guys go out to a golf course wanting to play the best that they can. They take lessons. Watch videos. Passionate pass time.
But most golfers arent great and neither is the advice that they give each other.

The best golfer that I have ever personally known hated "customer golf" even though it got him a long way in the world because he was sought after as a playing partner.

He once said...."I hate being around that chit because I dont want duffer golf crawling into my brain."

I try real hard to improve at songwriting because I enjoy it so much. But a realistic view of where my skills rank in the real world of music is never lost on me.
In summary...As hard as I try to improve, I wouldnt take nitpicky advice from me as anything to bet on.

But its all Customer Golf here. But im curious as to why its nitpicking for a comment on a song but not on a recording of a song.

Maybe the person who posted is saying...seriously what the hell do I care about this effect or that one.

and thank you, im now working on a song called "Customer Golf"

I suppose that there is no difference.

But another way to view that...consider that I write a song about a dog that died when I was a kid. My depiction of my feelings for the dog is completely subjective.
I may use words that dont rhyme worth a darn and there may be better ones that someone can point out. I see that as legit.

But often I see someone who couldnt write a thankyou note telling someone else who couldnt write a thank you note exactly what they need to do in their song. That becomes pointless.

Audio software techniques can also be subjectively used, but largely I consider them more objective than songwriting. It's all still subject to the blind leading the blind...but if you tell me that my reverb is excessive and you would eliminate it and use a slap delay instead for a better result....then I....can ask you which slap delay that you use and how you set it...whether on the track or bus it and so on.

If you tell me that describing my old Lab's coloration as "jaundiced" would be preferable to "yellow"...then the fog sets in.

But there are still tons of way to mix a song, tons of ways to arrange a song, tons of ways to reach the desired result. And Ive seen people, especially with todays tech world and home recording people thinking they are pros, commenting on PROFESSIONALLY released songs sayng the mix is bad, or they dont like the sound of the drums or the mastering. So it is entirely and completely subjective...

Imagine going on to Amazon and seeing a review of a song or album "I have to say I was completely disapointed with the sound of this track, I thought they did a bad job of mixing it.

This coming from who? Somebody who sounds terrible on his beat making software...

Yes, songs are personal, but they are not supposed to be "inside jokes" either. Anything can be hysterical between two people who understand the history behind the joke, whereas outsiders are like "wtf"? Can you explain why this is funny?

Same thing with songs, if you are writing for just you to hear, I would agree, its yours, but if you want somebody else to get it, to feel it, to want to figure it out...first of all you better entertain them, secondly it should be worth their time to do so.

A great deal of it is subjective, there are grammy award winning songs I think suck, and indie songs I think are through the roof.

Side note, I know a guy who has won multiple songwriting awards, normally very humble. He released a cd, and he got those type of home recording people anaylzing the production....he flipped out, was funny for me "Oh cmon man get out of my hair, thats all the world needs is another recording nerd bashing my music.

Everybodys a critic, and most of them dont know chit.....

There is this, there is that, there is the other. BUT...if you want to improve at a skill, pick a target, and a path and narrow your focus and move towards it.
Additional good advice is not to give or accept bad advice as you move towards it. It's just static and wrong turns to do so.

Akin to the good song standard...a song is not good that does not sound good. If I sing a song that I wrote and it sounds awful, but Aretha Franklin could have made it sound great...BUT...she did not sing it and no one but me ever sang it...it was never a good song.

Be realistic

"Additional good advice is not to give or accept bad advice as you move towards it. It's just static and wrong turns to do so."

Ok so im not buying BIAB, and the riff generator will only inhibit me.

Yup.

If you think that it's bad advice?
Suit yourself.

aint that the point? How do you know what good advice is?

You don't sometimes.
When in doubt...research it.

The best research is listening to what others are doing with it. I havent been appalled, but havent been excited by BIAB.

Didnt somebody say somethings worth is only what somebody is willing to pay for it. I think id rather buy individual instrumment vsts than BIAB

Based on my ear research and research in general.

If you truly knew how to use BIAB, I think that you would want it. You are making all these assertions about it based on a copy you owned several years ago. A lot has changed.


If I had it to do over, I dont think that I would have bought EZKEYS, but definitely would have bought EZBASS and EZDRUMMER. On a lot of my songs, BIAB drums styles are adequate, but when I want to drill down into the tone of the drums...EZD is great. The convincing tones in EZB make it great...for me.

I recently bought Hollywood Strings Gold. That was a good purchase. Easy to use and convincing sound.



BUT Fd...suit yourself.

If you guys had never bothered to scroll down here, then I really would have been disappointed... LOL

Tony,

Dont hijack our thread! ;(

The title pulled me in immediately!
Really, really good stuff............very thought provoking.
This is very entertaining, as well...............that's all I care about....but that's just me ;-)

Lol... The happiest people are so easy to please

Ha, i think that sums up what critiques and reviews are for most.

If you point something out, your not happy. If you dont, you are.

I never understood the point of universal pats on the back, most of them come with S.A.S.E. 's

Not sure what some folks are searching for when posting a song.

Is it a "hey look at this picture of my grandaughter aint she cute?"

"awww they are adorable at that age, I remember mine being that young"

is it a mutual, we both have grandkids, we both have songs, ????

Is the song good, or is it ok. or does it suck. I can never discern from most reviews if the person actually likes the song, or not. Cause they aint gonna say they dont.

I guess the forum is so old by now, its not taken very seriously anyway.
For me id prefer to have real music listeners, and silence would probably be the best indicator of the quality of the music.

How many thousands of times are you going to post this argument, in one form or another, before you realize....that nobody cares?

They dont care, thats why the review like that? oh

Rarely does someone post a song here to learn something about the craft of songwriting. Very few people here could truly teach them anything.
MAB is one that could...BUT, have you noticed? That he does not.

People post here for validation and accolades.

If you want to deliver YOUR cold, hard truth to someone. Then do so. The rules say you can.
But realize that they probably wont like it because it wasnt what they were looking for.

Theres nothing cold, and nothing hard about any critiques ive given, i dont even give them much any more, really not at all. If i see something I like Ill just comment on it.

MABs songs are not immune to critique. Nobody knows what a good song is, usually, a good song is a song liked by alot of people

Which brings me to my earlier point. I have no way of knowing if somebody likes most songs here. Cause they dont say if they do...means they dont. Which is ok, i dont like grammy award winning songs too

Actually it brings you back around once more, to one of your little drums that you love to beat every time you see the chance.

And I am trying to put it all in perspective for you....

except for a rare few....PEOPLE DO NOT COME HERE TO BE TOLD WHAT IS NOT GREAT ABOUT THEIR SONG.


They come here to be lauded for their undiscovered prowess. And some seem to like hanging out here and being part of something.

So they come to be lied to? and lying is the way to their heart?

I think you're wrong. They are posting a song cause THEY think it's good, but are wondering if anyone else does. IS this any good, is a bsic question we all ask ourselves.

"Everybody said it. all i need now is to change this line, add some reverb to my vocal, and eq the mix to add some high end"..."once I do that, everything has been checked off, and I have a smash song here"

Theres beauty in all people, i guess theres beauty in all songs, so I never harp on the negative, i look for and usually find what is good about it. And what needs work, if thats bad... i dont know what kind of utopian world you live in

Anyway, Japov kind of started it. He has a perturbed response whether its a good review or a bad one.

Instead of saying...thanks for listening.

You don't have to lie about anything.

You can tell em like YOU see it.
You can focus on something good and pay a genuine compliment.
You can choose to post nothing.

You can do a lot things without lieing.
But the big picture is that very few here truly want to hear what you think is not good about their song.

Ex-squeeze me? LOL

If i see something ill say something, good bad. Show me a song that I butchered up and told them person to take up golf. I always find something I think is good and can be built on.

TS used to be harsh. They felt Nashville was cut throat, so lets give people that treatment to help them develop callouses.

Whether it mattered or not, thats how it was handled.

I know people dont come to be told their weaknesses, but I promise you there's alot of folks here who think they are much better than they actually are, cause of the comments they receive.

The same folks should strap on a guitar, do an open mic or play a local bar, and see if anybody tells them how great they are. I promise you they will hear "you suck" ive heard it, but after a while of consciously trying to improve, you can see you suck yourself, and nobody needs to tell you.

As Seinfeld said "Ugly people dont know they're ugly cause nobody tells them"

They are not likely to do that.
For the same reasons that they post here. They are not looking to be told that they suck. They are looking to be validated.

However it is you who doesnt seem to understand the true nature of what goes on here, all the while beating your little drum.

Do you know what validated means?

They think they are valid, they come to be validated....

Maybe I dont understand it, I dont want somebody to say im good if they dont mean it. or just go through the motions to get me in their thread.

Cause im gonna find out, and then ill come back here, and say "You dumbasses told me this was great...now i went and spent 50 grand on a 12 song album quality cd, and nobody wants to buy it"

JERKOFFS!

Merriam Webster Online
b: to recognize, establish, or illustrate the worthiness or legitimacy of



Regarding the CD...

If a random unknown person produced an excellent 12 song CD with excellent songwriters and excellent musicians, but no known recording artists...and then...came to you and asked if you would like to invest 50K betting on the come of the future proceeds of the future album release?

That would a terrible investment to make.

right...to recognize... (Your song is good), establish (Come round here often enough and you will) the worthiness or legitamacy, which is what brought you here.

Please dont tell me that people signed up here cause they didnt want to see if their own measurement of themselves matches that of others.

50k for cd....

now look up Hyperbole

Ex-squeeze me?

I'm unable to decipher that?

DECIPHER
3a: to make out the meaning of despite indistinctness or obscurity

It would be a bad investment, whether it was 500, 5000 50000
Said 50k in a hyperbolic way

Stand by my comments. People here think they are better than they actually are, and cause of the reviews. You often see them talking about how they cant understand how this pop song or that one was a hit. Did they look at their song?

Theres no standard of excellence, everything is great.

Except when you decide to comment on a mix or recording. Thats just as nitpicking to somebody who thought the mix was good

You really should stop arguing until you can figure out something to say that sounds reasoned.

We have been over why I think that commenting on audio recording techniques and results is more objective and qualitatively different than taking apart someone's song.

I dont care to repeat all of that. Go back and read it if you like.

WE have been over it, but what YOU think its not how it IS

You can say audio critiques are ok, but song critiques are not, all you like it will NEVER be true.

The ONLY difference is YOU prefer to talk about audio, because you have NO INTEREST, in songwriting craft.

And YOU fail to UNDERSTAND that NOT EVERYBODY thinks this way

Its actually pretty funny that YOU think the topic was SETTLED, the LAST time it came up.

WHAT you are ACTUALLY saying is that NOBODY should post LYRICS here.

AND your MORONIC thesis that a SONG is ONLY a SONG if it SOUNDS good, is REDICULOUSLY STUPID.

if SOMEBODY goes to a BAR and sings The BEATLES Help, with the band, and the band is a halfway decent band, and the singer is a halfway decent singer, its STILL a great song, done by amateurs

The ONLY time your theory is correct, is if its SO bad that the singer annoys the listener, and its an UNLISTENABLE band

There is decent, average, good, great etc

The bad singers on American Idol are PICKED specifically cause they are SO bad its FUNNY

How bout YOU approach it how YOU want to, and Ill Approach it how I want to? But that WONT happen, You'll tell me how to listen to and assess a song.

You guys are hilarious! If it wasn't for you two this place would be completely dead. (That's me critiquing your critiquing skills lol)

Is it possible that everything you guys have been saying could also be said of "the pros"? How often do you turn on the radio and can't find anything worth listening to?

FD... I know I have a bad reputation lol, but I'm not always perturbed

Sunset... I know my limitations, have for a long time, that's why I don't perform anymore. Hell, I only record as the arthritis allows lol. But I think you're mostly right, it's ALL subjective, the pros just have better recordings and marketing. So, why am I here? Simple, I can't deny myself

Well, a pro is somebody who gets paid for their music. an amateur is somebody that doesnt. Simpleton definition.

But you can also easily tell who is a talented musician and who isnt. The subjectivity lies in that gap.

And, you can also think somebody is a great artist, but dont really care for the music. THATS subjectivity

And you can also like something by somebody who doesnt have a lot of talent.... pick a punk song and roll with it.

Likes and dislikes are similar to facts, and we do tend to say what we like is a fact, but there are also differences.

Somebody can be the greatest chef in the world, and makes an outstanding Chicken Cacciatori, it can be the greatest dish ever but if you hate chicken, you wont enjoy it. You'll go to 7-11 and get a burrito instead

I used to think the same exact thing. "The only difference between me and that one is they have world class band, engineers, producers, labels, and I dont."

How would Taylor Swift even make an album without all that expert assistance? She couldnt.

But she had something somebody thought was great, and thought shed make alot of money. she did.

Subjectivity is a strange thing. every little detail can be a matter of subjectivity.

But anybody old enough to know The Beatles let it be, will ALWAYS say its a better song than hmmm bop.

Even though they might secretly like hmmm bop

I love 7-11 burritos!

Me too 2 bucks, cant beat it.

back to subjectivity, maybe i can nail it down better this way.

I dont like to be mean and single any person out. But which group of women, are prettier? If beauty was in the eye of the beholder...completely, the result wouldnt be so obvious. The fact that they can have categories....BEAUTIFUL, UGLY lol

But, the subjectivity lies between the groups, I think. Can you imagine ONE person out of ONE million whod say the second group are prettier?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/291889619605543367/

https://www.google.com/search?q=sto...54&biw=1366&client=firefox-b-1-d

Not fair FD! Apples and oranges....
The cute ones are still cute even when they make ugly faces!

The point is if we work on our craft, and our recordings, we might be able to get out of the obviously ugly category, and into
let see who is prettier here. See now its more subjective..

https://www.shutterstock.com/search/average+looking+women

The extremes might be Mozart, and some old retired guy on soundclick

The subjective part might be which classical artist is better, Mozart or Beethoven
Or which old guy on soundclick has the better song.

LOL. Good to see that you're getting a sense of humor back.