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#1171251 - 11/18/20 02:53 PM Getting a song to a major artist  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 67
James Guglielmo Online content
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James Guglielmo  Online Content
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Philadelphia, PA
I'm interested in getting "The Thanksgiving Song" to Celine Dion.

https://youtu.be/4idFtHzc_T0

Any information would greatly be appreciated.

Be well, be safe,

James Guglielmo

#1171259 - 11/18/20 06:43 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Dec 2000
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couchgrouch Online content
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hi James....if you want to get a song to a major artist, it needs a better hook with better development than the pro writers they already use. And, possibly, more importantly, you need a personal relationship with either the artist, their publisher or producer.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1171261 - 11/18/20 07:09 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Well i dont know about that now, bad songs become hits all the time, not saying that this is bad, just saying I don't think greatness is the main factor

While couchgrouch speaks a kernel of truth here, when you are nobody in the songwriting world, you better have a great song, just to even have a prayer, the artist can write their own bad or mediocre song, and almost always do, these days.

James the short answer to how to get your song to a major artist is...you don't !

Shoot for the low hanging fruit and try to get an indie artist to record your song.it wont pay anything , and doesn't really mean my much, but it can provide some personal satisfaction.

I prefer writing sings for me to perform . I'm way behind too!

But I have heard many bad hits, and even more bad indie cuts, but indie cuts can be had by anyone with a connection or two.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/18/20 07:14 PM.
#1171262 - 11/18/20 07:22 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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niteshift Online content
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Hi James,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Celine has retired.

As stated, you need to know the artist, their management team, their publisher or producer.

cheers, niteshift

#1171271 - 11/19/20 08:11 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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An indie artist isn't low hanging fruit. They want to sing great songs, too. In order to reach them, you need to pitch well written songs to pubs you've established a relationship with.
OR you need a relationship with the artist. That's how I got my recent cut, my co-writers know the artist and the artist liked the song, with a few changes.

It's unlikely a song called "The Thanksgiving Song" will grab them, esp if the opening line is the number of days in the year. You need a hook.

As someone who's had songs pitched to majors, I speak from experience. You can listen to my tunes, James, and judge for yourself if they back up what I say.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1171272 - 11/19/20 09:08 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,677
Sunset Poet Online content
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Sunset Poet  Online Content
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it's a lovely song, but sounds more of a "show tune" or a score to me due to the dynamics within the song. Rather than something that you would hear on a popular music album

Reaching Celine Dion has galactical odds against it, even if she is looking for your exact type of song. Nonetheless, good luck with your efforts and...
If you do talk to Celine, tell her that I have a couple of songs I'd like to throw on the stack for consideration. wink

#1171274 - 11/19/20 09:22 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Not the facts Couch , what was that song about a beer, a wedding, that was cut by a former American Idol alum? Somebody knew somebody.

And do you think some of the songs that have been listed here as having a cut, are any good? You don't even think most professional releases are good.

Indie cuts are most definItely low hanging fruit. And there's nothing wrong with low hanging fruit.

" see if you back it up". Lol, dude you're funnier when you are not trying to be.

Listen.....do I back it up? Now, lets say for a minute, he says no, what happens? You explain to him that he's wrong? Lol, does he like chocolate? He's wrong!

The day for pure songwriter has come and gone. Is it within the Rhealm of possibility? Sure. Remotely likely, even if you know the artist personally? With millions of songs written every day, not really.

Write for yourself . if you perform, big plus for you. If not, write with somebody who can perform it....indie, or up coming indie!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/19/20 09:24 AM.
#1171278 - 11/19/20 10:13 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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James, Couch said it best and succinctly. In order to get into "the club" you need a "superior product" and a relationship with an established artist, producer, publisher etc.

My best advice to you is to read what Marc Alan Barnette posts here. He has "been there" and now part of what he does is advise others on their journey. Luckily we get a lot of his thinking here for free. Follow this link and then click on "show posts"

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/users/19892.html

Good luck with this


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1171287 - 11/19/20 11:45 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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John, couch has basically dismissed any song, on any forum, as not being good enough. Some people here have indie cuts. So either he don't know anything, or bad songs can be cuts, just as easily as good ones.

Subjectivity is the main sticking point.

MAB spends most of his time talking about networking, not songwriting. Why? Cause networking is the only way. Everybody's got songs.

I've heard awful songs, or songs I didn't think were good at all become an indie cut.

A strong recording, with networking, is way more important.

Indie cuts are easy if you have a good relationship with a publisher, or upcoming artist.

Its not about great songwriting at all, and really, neither is pro cuts

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/19/20 11:46 AM.
#1171290 - 11/19/20 12:22 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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Thanks, John. smile

Ps...I'd say more but I've been hired to script Biden's press conferences... wink

Last edited by couchgrouch; 11/19/20 12:29 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1171297 - 11/19/20 01:20 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,855
John Voorpostel Offline
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John Voorpostel  Offline
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Post deleted. Addressed FD but it really is not worth it.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1171299 - 11/19/20 01:36 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,913
couchgrouch Online content
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It's not worth it. His obsession with me is back where it was at TS. First it was comical and a little flattering, then it got creepy, which is where we are now.

Sad that.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 11/19/20 01:36 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1171301 - 11/19/20 03:13 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: John Voorpostel]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,965
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Post deleted. Addressed FD but it really is not worth it.


It's not worth it, cause what I said is true. People here have cuts, couch thinks none are good, but they were cut. He thought don't blink, a song for kenny chesney was no good, boy was his face red .

Can't say it takes great songs to have an indie cut, while at same say song cuts are no good


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/19/20 03:14 PM.
#1171302 - 11/19/20 03:17 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by couchgrouch
It's not worth it. His obsession with me is back where it was at TS. First it was comical and a little flattering, then it got creepy, which is where we are now.

Sad that.

Couchgrouch the only person obsessed with you Is yourself. You're a career forum songwriter.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/19/20 04:31 PM.
#1171426 - 11/21/20 09:55 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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WilliamMahler Offline
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WilliamMahler  Offline
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Originally Posted by James Guglielmo
I'm interested in getting "The Thanksgiving Song" to Celine Dion.

https://youtu.be/4idFtHzc_T0

Any information would greatly be appreciated.

Be well, be safe,

James Guglielmo


Ya go straight up to them in Facebook and give it to her. Tiwiter and give it to her, post it in her hometown newspaper forum, anything with a note of connectivity.

#1171428 - 11/21/20 10:56 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,748
niteshift Online content
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Fiji
Sorry William, wrong. It will be ignored. Artists and their agents do not accept unsolicited material.

cheers, niteshift

#1171436 - 11/22/20 09:39 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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WilliamMahler Offline
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West Yarmouth
So Bruce Springsteen somehow by pure karma got to virtually note for note sampling my solo and covering my song? roger taylor loosely interpreted my song? blackmore's ngiht by sheer cosmic coincidence made a song with a nod to my relatives? um, u2 and melissa etheridge decided to use the same title based on me niteshift all because as i suggested to the original poster to do as i did? you see niteshift, i did exactly what i suggested and it worked for me each time

#1171442 - 11/22/20 09:53 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,913
couchgrouch Online content
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couchgrouch  Online Content
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niteshift is correct, James. Major artists don't accept unsolicited material. Rarely, very rarely, will someone of note peruse a site like this. If they do, your song will need a better title and opening line to grab them. It's the same with a publisher. They have STACKS of cds on their desks and their inboxes are stuffed with tunes. Your song needs to grab them or it'll be tossed or deleted.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1171458 - 11/22/20 01:56 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Dec 2008
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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You're very talented James. And I think the song is very catchy (especially the verses). Next to impossible, at least today, to get a song to a big artist. Although, there are very few songs celebrating Thanksgiving. And that cool video certainly sells it. So, there are possibilities. Try sharing the video link with some producers/ music supervisors. This could definitely fit nicely in a Hallmark holiday movie. I don't believe Celine's in the market for new material. She started another stage of her life.

Good luck, John smile

#1171475 - 11/22/20 05:28 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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James Guglielmo Online content
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Thank you John for your positive feedback. I will explore those possibilities. Have a great Thanksgiving.

Be well, be safe

James Guglielmo

#1171501 - 11/23/20 10:03 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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WilliamMahler Offline
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James, www.reverbnation.com as a member non pay can and will get you noticed but you got to be patient and persistant.

#1171542 - 11/23/20 05:01 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: WilliamMahler]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Originally Posted by WilliamMahler
James, www.reverbnation.com as a member non pay can and will get you noticed but you got to be patient and persistant.


"ReverbNation: 2.5 million members, who have: Uploaded more than 15 million songs" Noticed? James, I'd rather see you submit some music to "Crucial Music": https://www.crucialmusic.com/ I think you'd have a good chance getting the Thanksgiving song into a movie through them. Good thing about Crucial is you'll see licensing and PRO royalties.

John smile

#1171550 - 11/23/20 06:13 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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WilliamMahler Offline
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ReverbNation tailors to the individual so long as the individual writes of their genre and specifics, the more info you tell them, they got me hundreds of leads many almost daily to my inbox at reverb.

#1171553 - 11/23/20 06:19 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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WilliamMahler Offline
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After reading Crucial Music and Crucial Custom, I'm very tempted to sign up HOWEVER, 3 of my songs are co-written with 2 artists that have no representation by SESAC, BMI or ASCAP that I am aware of. Crucial by their own word will not accept 3 of my songs based on that so that's why I am very hesitant.

#1171556 - 11/23/20 06:31 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Yes, Crucial Music is very particular. But a great company.

John smile

#1171578 - 11/24/20 10:35 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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WilliamMahler Offline
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Yes, Crucial Music is very particular. But a great company.

John smile


After reading your accolades, apparently so.

#1171591 - 11/24/20 01:38 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Dec 2000
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couchgrouch Online content
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couchgrouch  Online Content
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I've had a couple of placements thanks to Crucial. I can't offer advice because I had nothing to do with it, my co-writer did all the work. I just had some minor bureaucratic stuff to do.

They are choosey...


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1171595 - 11/24/20 02:43 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Congrats Couch! It's like an info maze leading up to being accepted or rejected.But well worth the work!

Best, John smile

#1171787 - 11/28/20 03:33 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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James Guglielmo Online content
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James Guglielmo  Online Content
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Philadelphia, PA
Hello John,

Just wanted you to know that I joined www.crucialmusic.com and I will see where this will lead.
I need to try a different path - the Cdbaby type of path doesn't lead anywhere for me.
Thank you for the advice.

Be well, be safe.

James Guglielmo

#1171788 - 11/28/20 07:03 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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James it is a well written song with a great melody well sung and the video works. So good luck with crucialmusic.com and keep us apprised of where it leads. Hope the right people see it.


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1171789 - 11/28/20 07:22 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Wish you much success James!

John smile

#1171908 - 12/01/20 09:21 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Hello everyone.

Sorry I am just seeing this if this is a long running thread. I'm sort of having trouble keeping up some times. I have not said much because frankly there is not a lot I have to offer on many of the subjects going on here. I dont get into the endless political discussions or the insulting nature of a lot of Internet discourse these days. Just have no interest in that. There is more than enough anger, frustration, and bitterness out there. I have no interest in adding to the pile.

There are some subjects I do feel I can offer some insight on, and this is one of them. Getting a song to a "major artist" like Celine Dion" or any artist are to say the least difficult and while not impossible, majorly improbable. There are many reasons for it and many I have mentioned before. Fedemintrio, I am always happy to speak about songwriting, but most of the conversations on sites like these revolve around the "I've got this song now what do I do?" "How do you get a publisher", "How do you get to an artist?" or "What television and film library is best?" or "I've spent all this money and now what do I do to get it back?" Etc.
I respond to what other people want to talk about, and if subjects are out there that I can't offer anything on, I don't. The fact is that most people on songwriters forums already think they have the songwriting aspect covered, so they are rarely interested in any input on that. So Networking is one that comes into play most often.

I always cover four areas:
"Creation of the song.
Presentation of the song.
Networking.
Business.

I'm happy to talk about any one of those, but as everyone knows, I can offer quite a lot of detail. I don't want to do that unless someone asks for it.

But if James, the original poster, has some questions on his original post, I'll be glad to elaborate.

On his posts so far:
On Celine:
Celine is basically retired. She may do certain special events, but the rigors of losing her husband, raising her children, doing her residency in Vegas, etc. have basically left her wanting to withdraw from the public spotlight. She is more than set for life and has accomplished more than most people ever would.She frankly has nothing left to prove. So I would not look for her to make any return any time soon. You should be looking for a "Celine Dion" of the future. Someone closer to you and keep your aspirations workable and achievable.

On a "THANKSGIVING" (or special purpose) song.
Anything that has a finite season has limited commercial appeal. We don't have a "Thanksgiving" season, any more than a "Valentine" season or "Arbor Day" season. So any purchasing potential, radio airplay, etc. would be minimal if at all. Releasing a record is a huge deal and financial investment. Trying to promote something with limited ability to return on an investment, is simply not a good money expense. So you would be hard pressed to find any record label or infact any artist to take a chance on it. Christmas songs have a 5-6 week time frame, and everyone writes for that target. All artists do Christmas records and so it is a better bet that you would have a shot at something with a Christmas release. But there is much, much, MUCH, more competition. I just released one of my own, "NOT SO MERRY CHRISTMAS HERE IN THE TRAILER PARK" with a video, 15 years after writing it. The reason I did is that it is part of a larger compilation CD and the expense of production was very minimal. So it made sense. Most don't make sense.

On Your Song:
It's very nice, but a BEAR to sing for anyone less than an Opera or majorly accomplished singer. One thing about Christmas songs is they are very easy to sing. The entire point of them are seasonal singalongs. The more you complicate a song, the more narrow your ability to pitch the song becomes.

A place you might look are local churches, high school or college music programs, local music teachers. Anyone you could contact and sit down with. The problem with the Internet is that it is so vast, being able to reach anyone with billions of songs a month is actually close to impossible. not to mention that fact that now artists are really only interested in what they themselves create. So you would be much better served to build relationships with artists and write WITH THEM, instead of trying to pitch TO THEM. Everyone has a "self preservation and promotion" instinct in them, and since now, most songs are relative, (which is why you get substandard songs and artists on the radio), we are all going to choose our own creative work over that of anyone else. Since the money has dissapeared out of the music industry as a whole, if you are not going to make any money any way, why waste time with something you had no hand in creating?

On most to think about regarding your song:
You might do your own "singer search" on various web sites, YOU TUBE, FACEBOOK" or other sites, then spend some time screening your own singers, contacting them, and building a relationship, yes, NETWORKING.

For most everything musical, IT IS THE BEST OF TIMES, IT IS THE WORST OF TIMES.
We all have a vast area to get what we do "out there." we can place our work on endless sites and areas. We have creative freedom to do whatever we want, say what we want, how we want it, any way we want.
Getting anyone to pay attention, listen and observe what we do, stop their own endlessly busy lives, is another thing altogether. And to actually PAY US FOR IT? That's a tall order.

Good luck to you and I hope some of this makes sense to you. I wish you well and happy holiday season.

MAB

#1171937 - 12/02/20 09:37 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
[quote=John Voorpostel]Post deleted. Addressed FD but it really is not worth it.


"It's not worth it, cause what I said is true. People here have cuts, couch thinks none are good, but they were cut. He thought don't blink, a song for kenny chesney was no good, boy was his face red" .

Like a lot of things, I have a pretty funny story about that one. Chris Wallin, one of the writers of that song, is a friend of mine and has been for many years before he started having a number of hits on Chesney .Tim McGraw, Montgomery Gentry, George Strait and others. I remember when he was struggling and driving a really horrible beat up car. We used to do a show every Thanksgiving at the Bluebird. He has a great story on that song:

He had written it many years ago, and would go to NSAI meetings. They would do critiques (I was one of the critiquers at one time) in a huge class setting with probably 100 writers at a time. Made for a long night going through songs. They also have a pro song service that does private critiques for members. Chris played it several times for people and nearly everyone thought that it didn't work. He even carries this folded up piece of paper when he does it live,one of the reviews he got, he opens it up and it says something to the effect of:

"Nobody would buy this over sentamental piece of crap. No one would believe the story teller is that old, no one would buy the premise, the melody is mediocre...": etc.

It's like they complained about every piece of the song. Hard to believe now because it was a HUGE hit and it is now cited as an example of how TO write a song.
So Crouchgrouch wasn't the only one confused.

But I find that in pretty much everything in the creative arts. It's very subjective. I do a lot of searching on the net for songs, writers, movies, television shows, cultural phenomenom. A current interest is filmaker Stanley Kubrick. It's so interesting how so many of his very few movies got terrible reviews, and reading comments on them from the general public that range from the "OH MY GOD, THAT IS THE THING THAT CHANGED MY LIFE" to "WTF DID I JUST WATCH?"
It's a pretty amazing width of responses.

And this is what we face as creators. Who is to say what is "good" or "not good." Play something for 100 people and you may get 100 different responses. How it relates to the original poster here is that he has something that fits well for him. His voice works well with the song, his emotions, and beliefs are well displayed through his song lthe video works well for him. I congratulate him and wish him luck.

But Personally, there is NO WAY that I would embrace the song mainly because I COULDN'T SING IT! And since I didn't write it, it just doesn't have the same appeal as it does to him. Songs, books, poetry, films, etc. are all subjective. We have to keep that in mind in anything we do as creative people.
And in the in, the consumer is the one that makes the ultimate decision. If he finds an audience for his music, who are any of us to say what works and doesn't.

MAB

#1171951 - 12/02/20 01:28 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Cool. Well yeah what is good? I think that was the central theme of my responses. I guess people like couch have experience in knowing what a publisher might think, as opposed to what is actually good or not, and that's helpful to know.

The Chesney song was placed on another site, I actually only had heard about it, I never saw the thread. But it was posted in annomity, just to see what the critics would say about it , and they did say stuff about it. Then it was revealed that it was a major cut for Cheney. Personally, it was kind of lame to do that, I mean why waste your time playing a game with people, you had the cut, I'd be outta there celebrating. I'm not sure who actually started the thread...

Anyway, that was the point . what sparked the fight here was on one hand saying that indie cuts require songwriting skill, and goodness, but on the other hand saying other cuts are not good.

Either it takes a good song to have a cut, or it doesn't, can't take a good song, when I wrote it, but when somebody else wrote one, it was something else.

I'd say with all cuts, its alot less about the song than other things. They simply don't need our songs, great or not.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 12/02/20 01:31 PM.
#1171997 - 12/03/20 10:04 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Cut's, like anything, are very relative. That is why you hear so many things on the radio, television. movies, etc. that you wonder "How in the world did that get on there?" What we may consider "weak songs" (and no doubt, many are, as well as weak artists) and others that blow us away but never go anywhere, cuts and all songs are important to "look beyond the song." There are so many things involved outside the song itself, that come into play. And people that only focus on the song in a vacumn never see that. It most often goes to the RELATIONSHIP.

I always have stressed the relationship and networking, because that is the central element on successes of songs. Relationships with other writers, artists, publishers, producers, labels, and most importantly, the relationship between the artist and their audience. Relationship is key.

People outside a music town or community, usually overlook this. They look at it as hopelessly inside and political, which it is, but it is deeper than that. It is a FRATERNITY. Eveyrone that comes to this, or any specific community, essentially gives up their lives, homes, families, social setting, and the years of work they have put into their home areas behind them and start completely over. The younger they are, out of high school or college, with less requirements on them, the better. But those are more likely to flame out as well.

It takes years to build up skill level, and political contacts that will help you in your career. I once wrote a booklet called "FRESHMAN YEAR IN NASHVILLE" which was a primer of sorts for people moving to town. It is much like like high school and college,FRESHMAN, SOPHOMORE, JUNIOR, SENIOR, and all of them last three years. You have the people that are here before you, the people that move in around the same time, and a few people that come right after you. These are the people you bond with, write with, hang out with. And those circles of friends interconnect with other circles, writers producers, other people that do the same thing. Those circles are the ones that develop into the successful relationships down the road.
That's how the networking works.

An analogy can be made to any business. If you were going into contruction and wanted your own business, you wouldn't just throw up a shingle and start building houses. You would start at the bottom, do the grunt work, not make much money, but build your skill and reputation. As people know you, you get more jobs, more responsibility and then maybe start side jobs, smaller projects. After a time you might branch out on your own., Years go by and hopefully you would develop into your own business.

These writing relationships and hopefully future artists, are the key to it all. And it's not just Nashville. A friend and former student of mine, lives in the Orange County California area, with connections to the film industry in Los Angeles. Around 20 years ago, when he was in college, he started working in the video game industry, doing music and sound effects for video games. 20 years later and those relationships and skill level culminated in working for Disney, designing music for their theme park, including the "STAR WARS" area of the park. One of the reasons he was able to do that was fro, being nominated for an Oscar award for composition work on "THE WORLD'S GREATEST SHOWMAN" the Hugh Jackman movie. So the networking, as well as abilities, all play into any industry.

This is what people like the original poster, James, don't always understand. And things that Couch Grouch say have validity. All publishers, writers, artists, you name it have a LOT of material. And they work in their circles. The circles expand and contract all the time, with new people coming into things and other people leaving in one way or another. And these are all long developed contacts. So when someone says "I want to get this to Celine Dion" it is never that simple and it is never "just about the song." It is about the relationship.

My approach has always been to "do what you can with what you have." If he made some contacts in the area he lives in, local artists, onllne contacts, building trust, reputation, etc, he would be in a better position to find the "new upcoming Celine Dion" or maybe someone in his own sphere of influence that might do his song on their projects, their web sites, their own things. And some of those contacts might go on and rise to their own levels of success,hopefully taking his work with them. To me, that is the only thing that has ever led to success. And while some may term the independent cuts as "low hanging fruit" I don't really feel that way.Anything that helps you get your work beyond that which you yourself can do is valid.

That is what is often talked about here. Validation .Having someone know you for what you do creatively is validity. Being involved in a community, be it in person or online, and being respected in that is validity. Having cuts, be them major or independent having you and your songs known whether someone else does them or you do them in your self produced projects are validity. It is art. Art can't always be measured in tangible success. We mostly are up against ourselves.

So I hope this fellow and all writers and anyone with the "dream" understand that. There are a lot of levels to this aside from the song itself. But from my point of view, it is all about the relationships. Songs are extension of those relationships.

Hope you are all well.
MAB

#1172002 - 12/03/20 11:19 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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90 dB Offline
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90 dB  Offline
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Good advice, Marc; as always. Of course, there are agencies that can also do that work for a songwriter. Such as.........



The Starmaker Machine


Are You the Next Big Thing in the Music Business?
Are your songs better than anything you hear on the radio?
Do your friends and family tell you that you are great?
Are you stuck in BFE, far away from New York, L.A. or Nashville?
Do you have a closet full of your music CD's that you can't even give away?
Do you have a message that the world needs to hear?
Are you a star on the internet forums?
Do you have some money?


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#1172004 - 12/03/20 01:03 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Uh....riiiight.

There are no end to those types of companies and I'm sure some people do find their way to them. I hope they find what they are looking for. None of the situations that I mention, the actual music industry, that I know, are done like that. Actually, the various relationships and circles that I speak of are formed to screen those types of services out. But there are things like TAXI that give songwriters some real world experience of what it is like to engage in writing for a commercial market.

For my money, experience and whatever, there is nothing that will ever take the place of one on one interaction. There are a lot of ways to spend money, and a lot of people willing to take it. I would suggest before aligning with anyone to contact people that have been INVOLVED with those organizations and do some research before diving into anything. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and in a world based around dreams, caution should always be used.

Good luck to all.
MAB

#1172005 - 12/03/20 01:18 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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A lot of wisdom in Marc's posts. As far as The Star Maker Machine, a lot of negative comments by users here: https://www.quora.com/Is-Starmaker-really-fake-or-not

John smile

#1172011 - 12/03/20 06:17 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Craig Allen Offline
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North Carolina
I love reading these posts.

#1172032 - Yesterday at 10:21 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Craig, I'm glad you do. Hope they help some.

John, one of the things about my "high school" and "college" analogies, in regard to relationships are that is in all business relationships, there is the "CLIQUE" factor. When you spend years with people, knowing them personally, their quirks and foibles as well as their good side, you know who to trust and who you want to work with, and who not to work with. Each business, is like that. And if you are a publishing, production company, label, etc. you have spent sometimes fortunes to foster and develop those relationships and talent. You are not just going to let anyone on the inside. And with all the insane nuts running around these days, you would be smart to do that.

One of the biggest aspects of this process is screening out weirdos. I don't think i have to tell anyone here how many strange people you encounter involved with music. There is nothing like spending millions on some artist or writer and finding out they are a Harvey Wienstien or Jeffery Epstein. There are many, many cases of an entire company being brought down by the foibles or actions of one person. One of the biggest management companies in Nashville was brought down three years ago due to the propensity of the owner hitting on and having conquests among young male artists. It was a huge scandal, and wiped out one of the biggest agencies in the town.

This is one thing these companies that are listed run into. They actually have reputations and they are not good ones. They charge a good deal of money, and their results are, to say the least, spotty. They also are known for taking anything and any one. That can run into a lot of trouble, because again they often don't know who they are dealing with, and the quality is always less than substantial. And there is the crazy factor. There have been more than a few examples of some frustrated songwriter showing up to an office with a gun demanding to know "what has happened to his cuts?!"

Then there is the "OUTSIDER" factor. Notbody likes people they don't know, just becoming the "bull in the china shop" and pushing people around, particularly when they are throwing money around. There are no end to the examples of this either. I knew one woman in particular, who burned through her inheritence of over $6 millkion dollars of her families silver mining business. She did that in about three years, throwing money around like it was going out of style. Hiring some really good song pluggers, high profile offices, recording studios, etc. Even had a couple friends of mine write for her, even tried to hire me once. The problem was there was something "just not right" about her. There is a difference between Assertiveness and aggressiveness .Being assertive, knowing when to push, and when to relax and let off is one thing. Being aggressive, where everyone gets to know you for your bad qualities is a bad thing. And she was like that. Very arrogant, very dismissive. And now, very broke. She works at a local Walgreens now. I do my best to avoid her whenever I see her.

There have been a lot of these type situations, both inside and outside Nashville, Los Angeles, New York. There are a couple of names I could mention, but won't that EVERYBODY knows and has had some dealings with. They have incredibly bad reputations, yet seem to continue on, changing their names, and going on when they should have been closed down years ago. What they do is not illegal, just unethical. Giving false hope, and playing upon people;'s dreams is just always a seedy thing to do. And I have encountered so many people that have experienced divorces, family disintigration, burning through retirement accounts, that it is a very sad situation.

So, while I don't condem any one person, group, company, etc. I do suggest caution in all people you deal with. Anyone that ever wants to deal with me, are encouraged to talk to people I have worked with. Many of those situations lead to co-writing and networking relationships and that is what I encourage. I am a simple coach, designed to help people gather what they do, get some perspective, then take all that as an overall approach to their career. I promise nothing other than you will know more about the business, the craft and yourself, after working a bit with me, than you did before. The rest is up to you.

As always I wish all of you best holidays in these trying times. Try to enjoy your music and do the best you can. It can be fun and informative.
Never let your highs be too high or lows be too low.
And remember, YOU DON'T CHOOSE MUSIC, MUSIC CHOOSES YOU.

MAB

#1172038 - Yesterday at 10:53 AM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
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Posts: 2,965
There used to be a guy in new jersey who would advertise in the local paper, this before the net and stuff, he'd list all these "credits" he had, it reeked to me even back then, so I never submitting anything .

When I went to a pro studio shortly after, with a local recording and producing, and really all instrument guru, he really opened my eyes as to how much of a non musician I was, he just crushed everything he played. im like man, i suck. Eventually it wears off and youre back doing it.

But I mentioned this guy who advertised to him, and he scoffed, " yeah the guy sends you pictures of Frank Sinatras mother and him in the grocery store, and calls that a credit..... If you were my worst enemy, I'd never send you to him.

I never gave it a thought after that!


Last edited by Fdemetrio; Yesterday at 10:55 AM.
#1172061 - Yesterday at 09:10 PM Re: Getting a song to a major artist [Re: James Guglielmo]  
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 23
Craig Allen Offline
Casual Observer
Craig Allen  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 23
North Carolina
Marc: your insights and experiences are always a worthwhile read.


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