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#1170434 - 10/29/20 01:26 PM Societal Clone  
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ckiphen Online content
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ckiphen  Online Content
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- Select One - huntsville, te...
Societal Clone
Verse
You’d like to think- you’re unique
But even as you speak
You know- you know-you’re a fraud.
Another gear- a cog.
Pre chorus
You’re nothing revolutionary
By all accounts you’re ordinary
An evolutionary dead end.
Chorus
You’re an X box Xerox copy
No identity of your own.
Have no originality.
You are a societal clone.
Verse
You shout out loud- look at me.
But no one hears your words.
You know- you know- you’re alone
Another fake- a clone.
Pre chorus
You’re nothing revolutionary
By all accounts you’re ordinary
An evolutionary dead end.
Chorus
You’re an X box Xerox copy
No identity of your own.
Have no originality.
You are a societal clone.
Bridge
You wouldn’t know you if you saw you
Looking back in a looking glass.
Verse
You’d like to think- you’re unique
But even as you speak
You know- you know-you’re a fraud.
Another gear- a cog.
Pre chorus
You’re nothing revolutionary
By all accounts you’re ordinary
An evolutionary dead end.
Chorus
You’re an X box Xerox copy
No identity of your own.
Have no originality.
You are a societal clone.


Ckiphen
#1170604 - 11/04/20 11:53 AM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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beechnut79 Offline
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What you are no doubt referencing here are those folks who are content to be "Yes men" (and women) no matter how detrimental. Hitler was surrounded by plenty of yes men, which is why he was able to get away with all that he did. Have we learned our lesson from that? Jury still out some eight decades later. This is something that the youth rebellion of the hippie years focused on. There was even a song referencing all the little boxes all made out of ticky-tacky and all looking the same.

#1170761 - 11/07/20 04:01 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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No singer would be able to sing this. It's too poorly metered and structured. It could be spoken word, I suppose, although even spoken, the title is a mouthful.

That's not counting the actual content which comes off as a tedious list of insults.

Have you thought about coming up with a memorable hook and then writing vss and a singable chorus to support it?


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1170763 - 11/07/20 04:23 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Well I just read it through and it created a melody in my head to which it fitted pretty much perfectly. These things are easier to judge if you have some interest in the musical side of a song.

It is a series of insults but quite interesting ones. I could hear this as melodic punk rock. The Rezillos and their ilk.

Societal clone is quite a memorable hook.

#1170767 - 11/07/20 05:10 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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I do have an interest in the musical side of songs...which is why I have the songs on the mp3 board that I do. Dozens of published songs and a dozen indie cuts with another on the way. I'd like to hear the complete song you have in mind. and I don't wanna be cruel to "A Heart That's True", but memorable hooks may not be your strength.

Do what you will CK. Let the results show the wisdom...


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1170769 - 11/07/20 06:18 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Yeah this could be a punk rock song, but then again, anything that can be half spoken, half shouted could be punk rock . And jts the energy that makes a punk song. I dont know many punk songs where the lyrics came first lol. when Gaven mentioned it I envisioned a punk ramble.

Ck takes it all In stride but I don't k ow what's more annoying, people
constantly giving the same crit, or seeing ck doing the same thing over and over again...lol

You'll never know what capability you have without an effort.

I'd be inspired to go one step up and stick it to couch ...

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/07/20 06:20 PM.
#1170798 - 11/08/20 11:56 AM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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ckiphen Online content
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- Select One - huntsville, te...
Just trying something different. I can see it might be difficult to sing with how it's phrased . oh well.


Ckiphen
#1170811 - 11/08/20 02:39 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by ckiphen
Just trying something different. I can see it might be difficult to sing with how it's phrased . oh well.

Nonsense, don't listen to Couch or anyone else who hasn't tried anything new in 20 years. It's good to step out of your safe zone every so often. If I can find the time, and you don't mind, I might try putting music to this just for fun. It would be something a bit different for me too, so I might well make a mess of it, but it's fun to try and you learn a bit along the way.

#1170818 - 11/08/20 04:02 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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Gavin, are you kidding me? Tried anything new? Look and listen to the songs I've posted in just the last few months. Life Without Love is completely different from Beer View Mirror. And I Thought of You is light years apart from Lead Me When I'm Lost. Sparrow in my Hand, Macon Love. Opposites. It's a year old but there are three different styles of song in Strange Apparitions alone.

If I were you, I'd leave off giving advice until I wrote my first good song.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1170820 - 11/08/20 04:54 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,450
Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Couch, there are some differences in the musical treatment, but that's not you. So, lyrically you stick to what you do, sometimes to good effect, sometimes not so much. Carroll has written a song that doesn't fit what you know how to do. That's why you said what you did about it. It just rubs me up the wrong way when you are casually dismissive of others because something they have done doesn't fit what you know how to do.

#1170826 - 11/08/20 06:07 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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Posts: 7,913
couchgrouch Online content
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I criticized what he wrote, not because it doesn't fit with what I do, but because it's an unsingable bummer. I think if he stopped pumping out stuff for these boards, waited until he had a good idea, then wrote some singable vss, it would be a good song. The same could have been said (and should have been said) about Stan and Corky 20 years ago.

And I write in all structures, dictions and genres, as clearly demonstrated by my material.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 11/08/20 06:59 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1170827 - 11/08/20 06:21 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,450
Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA
Ah yes, "structures, dictions and genres," but no heart. You deliver a big dollop of material, carefully mixed to ensure the exact formula of hook and precisely measured meter, to a musician who molds it into something which you see as the soaring spires of Cologne Cathedral but which is in fact a perfectly serviceable office annex to a prefabricated Baptist church hall.

But back to Carroll's song. I'm not saying it's a masterpiece, but you were wrong to say that it was unsingable, poorly metered and constructed. It's also not a bummer. That's all. A little musical imagination as you read it makes this clear.

#1170831 - 11/08/20 07:12 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,913
couchgrouch Online content
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couchgrouch  Online Content
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You're moving the goal post. First, you implied I hadn't done anything new in 20 years. That was easily proved false. Now, it's that I'm technically proficient, but have no "heart", which is unprovable.

but I can try...


http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1169052/broken-arrow-bridge.html#Post1169052

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1168810/old-crooked-oak.html#Post1168810

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1167341/i-paint-the-town.html#Post1167341

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...ime-i-saw-lonesome-dove.html#Post1166061


that's just from this site, in the last few months.




what will make your assessment clear is an mp3 of this song with a strong melody. No one will want to sing this...it's a list of insults and nothing more. I can't imagine pitching this to a publisher.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1170832 - 11/08/20 07:14 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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The main area of discrepancy is Couchgrouch writes as if his life depends on it, and takes it so seriously. The idea of jotting something down just for fun doesnt enter the picture , he probably doesn't even know how to write like that anymore.

Ck is not trying to make it to the virtual songwriters hall of fame, and seems he's content writing casually.

We have people of varying levels in here, at one time these boards had alot more very serious writers, and many would sock it to you if you posted this.

Not everybody is trying for Nashville , not everybody has any ambition or any desire to write something great.

More than talent and more than craft, the most important thing is wanting to do
It, if there is desire to write great, then it might happen .

Billy Joel said he doesn't write any more, not cause he can't, but that he doesn't have the want to.

Its really amazing what you can do if you really want to communicate something.

In a nutshel,l its pointless critiquing if the person doesn't really care themselves.

You can tell who is at least giving it the ole college try.

But if interested critiques from somebody like CG could've very helpful, but CG rarely offers anything solid, just random stuff. And I dont know why he bothers with cks stuff, who has shown no desire to work on his craft.

I believe he could, but he doesn't seem to want to.

ps...This doesn't have heart either ...its just a list of attributes

To each their own

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/08/20 07:17 PM.
#1170862 - 11/09/20 12:20 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Couch, those songs you list just go to reinforce my point. You are mistaking contrived emotional manipulation for heart. That is not in itself a problem because, while I may roll my eyes, many listeners will be happy to go along with it, reinforcing my contention that there is more than one way to write a song. I wish you well with these.

My reaction here was to your assertion that Carroll's song was unsingable and dismissal of something that's not exactly how you would do it. It's a different kind of song. I may have overreacted, but when a posterior is displayed so ostentaciously it is hard to hold back from applying the foot.

You are wrong about what will prove my assessment. As you have frequently observed, I am pretty much useless at this game, so when I try and fall on my a$$, nothing will have been proved. Still, if I find the time, I'll give it a shot. If I do, I'll probably change a word or two as a melody forms, but that would be it.

And yes, no publisher that you know would likely be interested in this because, as I may have mentioned, it's not that kind of song. I know of one person here (I'm not going to drag him into this) who supplies a bunch of this type of lyric to bands whose style they mesh with.

#1171015 - 11/12/20 02:01 PM Re: Societal Clone [Re: ckiphen]  
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ckiphen Online content
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ckiphen  Online Content
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- Select One - huntsville, te...
I feel way too bad to jump in on this. I had my knee replaced Wednesday and its been rough! No need to argue about the small stuff.


Ckiphen

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