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Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here
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#1166549 - 07/12/20 08:39 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Yeah,can you imagine come new years, the new years eve shows winding down the highlights of the year....there won't be many.

But they'll have plenty of deaths to list.

Strange indeed, imagine this happened as recently as say 1988, imagine how hard this quarantine would have been.

It's a freaking cakewalk now, and the only reason people are fed up is because they can't dine out and take a picture of their meal, and post it on Facebook .

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/12/20 08:40 PM.
#1166550 - 07/12/20 08:53 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Truth

#1166551 - 07/12/20 08:53 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Yeah,can you imagine come new years, the new years eve shows winding down the highlights of the year....there won't be many.

But they'll have plenty of deaths to list.

Strange indeed, imagine this happened as recently as say 1988, imagine how hard this quarantine would have been.

It's a freaking cakewalk now, and the only reason people are fed up is because they can't dine out and take a picture of their meal, and post it on Facebook .


No eating out!!!


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#1166553 - 07/12/20 09:29 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Well, least we may have something resembling a baseball season. Though 60 game season, I think your gonna see some surprise teams in the playoffs cause you don't need to stay not for long

Basketball, s really weird, the worst state to be in right now is a Florida and that's where they are planning the playoff bubble.

Football, there's too many people on sideline to make it worrk, college is pretty much done this year.

And no fans at any game, any league. I can't imagine football without a crowd, I mean the crowd causes all those false starts and turnovers.

2020 is all too surreal.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/12/20 09:30 PM.
#1166559 - 07/13/20 03:26 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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2020 is the strangest year that I have ever lived through...without a close second.

I would have to agree Martin, it's all nuts.

I would have to say that this is not the time for politics and agendas. This is a very serious MEDICAL issue.

To those "deniers" who don't think it's happening, just walk into an ICU ward,and that may change your opinion.

cheers, niteshift

#1166562 - 07/13/20 06:47 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I don't believe they will force you to take the vaccine but there are other ways to push you to take it. Bill Gates has been quoted as saying when they get the vaccine and those that take it will be given a certificate showing that they have taken it, so they can go back to work and have a normal life, but those that refuse to take it will not be allowed to return to work or a normal life. Maybe friends and neighbours will start to shun you to shame you into taking it. It is almost at that stage now if you don't wear a mask or social distance. You get some hard stares from people, some even mouth off to you. Fear and brainwashing go hand in hand, snitching on people is what keeps dictators in power. Taking away freedoms a little at a time give them power.

I know Covid 19 is not a hoax, where it came from and how it started is still a mystery. But who was it that said, never let a pandemic go to waste. This pandemic fell right in the lap of some people behind the scenes that are taking advantage of it, who, I have my suspicions , why, again I have my suspicions, time will tell if I am right.

#1166568 - 07/13/20 07:56 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I think many people think it's another flu, and since they survived the flu before think there's no concern.

If leprosy suddenly had a resurgance, NOBODY would object to qurantines. People would be homicidal if they saw a bunch of lepers on the beach.

So it must mean many don't think it's that deadly. Why they do t feels t the threat I don't know, but it's not the flu, so where are they getting their ideas from.

As far as liberties, what about the rights of smokers when they can't smoke in a public venue? Non smokers don't complain about this, they love it.

#1166571 - 07/13/20 09:48 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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"If leprosy suddenly had a resurgance, NOBODY would object to qurantines. People would be homicidal if they saw a bunch of lepers on the beach" - Fdm

Apples & oranges Fdr! There's a definite test/diagnosis for leprosy. There is no reasonable test for COVID19 (only coronavirus). So far, NO ONE has isolated THE COVID-19 VIRUS. All tests only test for what was originally in the exosome matter of a few 'infected' Chinese people which could, likely, include other RNA/corona-like matter, like colds and flu 'viruses'. Nobel Prize winner Kary Mullis who 'created' the PCR test for DNA in the 1990s (which is now used to test today for Covid-19) had clearly stated should not be used to test for other things like 'viruses'. But that doesn't seem to matter. The number's game they're playing with these test results are doing their job - scaring people into submission.

John

#1166573 - 07/13/20 10:04 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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""But it seems some don't want it to be true. John is not alone in his disbelief." - John V

It's not as simple as disbelievers’ verses believers John. I believe this is one of many bad flu years. The hoax is the way the media and politicians are blowing this out of proportion. When institutions and cities are rewarded for larger “numbers”, when politicians see this as a chance to sway the vote, when people of power bathe in the limelight, etc.… the truth becomes distorted. If this hoax was perpetrated in the same manner last flu season, there would have been similar results. Under these circumstances, any rational man would distrust the numbers and the severity of the situation.

Peace, John smile

#1166574 - 07/13/20 10:13 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Well, it was supposed to be apples and oranges to make the point. People don't respect the threat I guess cause so many have no ptoblems. But nobody knows how they will react when they get it.

#1166579 - 07/13/20 12:13 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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John

Our entire lives may be a "Matrix" movie dictated by an extra-terrestrial.
Yet, though an illusion, illness and pain seem very real.

Believe what you want, but put that mask on when you go out.

#1166580 - 07/13/20 12:30 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Sunset Poet]  
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
John

Our entire lives may be a "Matrix" movie dictated by an extra-terrestrial.
Yet, though an illusion, illness and pain seem very real.

Believe what you want, but put that mask on when you go out.


That analogy is apples & fruitcake John. Ha, ha. Yeah, illness & pain has always been real. Don't know how it relates to apples & fruitcake though.

Wear a mask? Of course, I'm a law-abiding citizen.

John smile

#1166591 - 07/13/20 07:06 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Fruitcake...meatloaf...whatever?

Just wear the mask.. smile

#1166593 - 07/13/20 08:31 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Who was that masked man?

John smile

#1166596 - 07/14/20 12:22 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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if America were a giant nudist colony, then maybe people would have a reason to complain about being forced to wear masks. but we are not nudists, and no one seems to complain much about having to wear clothes when out in public.

even though it does nothing whatsoever to slow any disiase, we must wear pants.

so now we are asked to wear a mask in addition to pants? what is the big deal?


Staying 6 feet away is better than being 6 feet under.
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#1166600 - 07/14/20 06:39 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Is it true that you have to pay to be tested for the virus.?

#1166601 - 07/14/20 08:02 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Is it true that you have to pay to be tested for the virus.?



I only know what I see, here and there, on TV.
In Houston, it seems that most test providers have a fee of just under $200.
I've heard of free sites on tv but not sure how many of them that there are.

There was a local news story recently about someone who took the test through their insurance and was sent a bill by the insurance company for $6000.
There must be more to the story that explains that.

#1166602 - 07/14/20 09:05 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Most insurances and Medicare cover it. CVS & Walgreens offer it free. I sure it varies from state to state.

John smile

#1166614 - 07/14/20 02:20 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I heard a story of a man that had all the symptoms of Covid 19 who went to the hospital to be tested but because he did have the fee he was turned away. How many more would he infect if he didn't self isolate. testing here is free.

#1166615 - 07/14/20 02:30 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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In ny area they run the same commercial urging people to get tested, saying it's safe, easy and free....

I've read that there is some concern that the opening of sports leagues is going to take all the testing resources away from civilians.

Basicly if your area is a hot zone it will become free

#1166637 - 07/15/20 02:54 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Actually the first batch of tests for it came from China and they found the tests themselves HAD Corona virus on them. They used them to demonstrated that fruits various animals etc. all tested positive for CV. That is a fact.

Testing doesn't need to CAUSE it, the truth is way more people have already had it so more testing results in more positives. They are not symptomatic. The WHO now tells us people who are not symptomatic pose almost no threat to others. So what are we doing? Masks should be worn for people with symptoms, whether it is covid or flu or a bad cold. The death rates have plummeted more and more as more people test positive. The deaths are decreasing both in actual numbers per day and vasts drops in %s to numbers lower than flu. AND don't forget, they openly state they count ANY death where someone had CV as a death FROM CV. This they admit. . So the numbers are nonsense.

I am concerned that they still haven't determined if this was intentional or accidental. I fear they'll have another "accident" of something FAR more deadly just before the election. Unlike some, I believe it is real. I also believe absence evidence it was an accident, we should proceed as if this was intentional. That means they are capable of doing much worse. Imagine if in October they release Covid 20 and it kills 1 in 2 people. Or 1 in 10 there will be no resistance to anything they want to do to the world. I recall that accidental open mic comment of the Fox News reporter who said after a press meeting in the white house that his cohort shouldn't worry, they've all been vaccinated already. No mainstream media on either side picked up on it of course. All media is propaganda for the masses and they work together.


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#1166652 - 07/15/20 12:21 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Yet, in nj and ny you weren't allowed to get tested unless you had symptoms and mainly a fever. You were turned away.

I think The death rate has gone down because New York and New Jersey showed the rest of the country how to deal with this. There was no precedent. Now they know what to do more than they did four months ago and it results in better outcomes.

it's very possible somebody engineered this, but the grimmer reality is mankind really has no defense against new diseases. We're great at treating and using what's already here, but helpless against drug resistant and totally new bugs. And if something new came along We 'd be in bad shape again.

Aids could have whiped us off the planet, but since it was an std only, we were lucky.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/20 01:02 PM.
#1166653 - 07/15/20 12:39 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I’ve seen several posts stating the number of coronavirus deaths is the same number of all deaths for the last three-month period in the USA. It’s difficult to find a CDC comparison (probably for good reason). If true, there can only be two possibilities. One, they’re reporting every death, regardless of the cause, as a coronavirus death. Or, there has only been coronavirus deaths the last three months, and nobody died of anything else. Where do you go for answers when the people in charge are liars?

John smile

#1166654 - 07/15/20 12:51 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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The one reliable indicator is looking at how full the hospitals are. I have a lady friend who is a nurse here in nj, and she reported NO covid hospitalization last week. As opposed to the height of it when she was working 60 hours a week.

I understand Arizona an Texas are facing similar problems now.

We have lost 135 k to covid compared to flu which killed 35k in a typical year.

Places like Florida apparently had a different criteria, but it's all semantics, this is a pandemic that seems to take turns where it hits next, india is getting hammered now.

You don't want the possibility of death any more than the death itself. so wear a mask and stop singing lolllll

When I walk down the street I often hear guys yelling raps really loud, and I think of the scientists who say it spreads faster the louder you talk


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/20 12:56 PM.
#1166658 - 07/15/20 01:35 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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"We have lost 135 k to covid compared to flu which killed 35k in a typical year" - Fde

There we go again with the reliable number's game. Ha, ha.

John laugh

#1166660 - 07/15/20 02:31 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu.

How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before? Why is that a solid gold number?

#1166666 - 07/15/20 03:19 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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"If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu" - Fde

Now you're getting it Fde!

"How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before?" - Fde

Because there were no ulterior motives for doing it before.

John smile

#1166668 - 07/15/20 03:33 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Ulterior motives being to discredit corona???? Ahhh

See, people wanted it to be another flu, but once it exceeded flu numbers, then something must be wrong with testing....lol

Anyone who thought this was the flu, they were wrong.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/20 03:42 PM.
#1166670 - 07/15/20 05:00 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu.
How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before? Why is that a solid gold number?


Because it isn't a solid gold number. They don't count all flu deaths in real-time like they are trying to do with covid-19 (with varying degrees of success). They do some real-time flu stuff, but a lot of it is back analysis of hospital data and they look at excessive deaths due to pneumonia and stuff like that: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

I think 80% of the covid deaths (don't hold me to that number) are from people with co-morbidities. If someone has diabetes/copd/cancer and they get covid and die, the cause of death is complications from diabetes/heart/lung etc with covid being the final accelerator. Chances are a lot of the folks dying from covid with co-morbidities could have lived for quite a bit longer. But we just don't know, it is an inexact science, but it is the best we have. After covid is all over, the CDC will recalculate the deaths based on excessive death statistics.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1166671 - 07/15/20 05:36 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Interesting theories and comments so far, Gang:

I have a sneaking suspicion that until we get accurate tests that can be administered and then provide almost immediate results of whether or not the virus is present... or it's cloned cousin, etc. ... we are navigating by the seat of our pants. While I am wishing... if such a test would give a reading of how long the victim has been inhabited by this nasty bug... we could determine whether to take Hydroxichloriquin or something more effective... or go straight to the hospital. These tests should be fairly inexpensive and widely available so we could have a National Testing Day (or series of days) so we could make an accurate prediction of what lies ahead. It would help us measure the impact of the virus against our population(s).

I agree with JLS... the politicization of all this agony is awful. We need to pull together, support our police and first line responders and keep the logistics of doing our best to cut this thing off at the pass in our minds... first and foremost. All lives matter!

Yes, Moose... wearing that darn mask is a small price to pay when out in public. I sure don't envy those poor clerks who must wear them an entire shift. Add eye-glasses into the mix and it is a real ordeal.

Stay well folks... and keep writing or whatever it takes to lead you to a happy place.

----Dave

#1166672 - 07/15/20 05:48 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Kevin co-morbities are involved in flu too. Nobody dies from the flu, they die from complications of flu. Some will die from pneumonia...which isn't a cause either ...but complications of pneumonia .

Others from heart faliure, others from lung faliure, others from sepsis and kidney failure, some get strokes and other things, all branching from getting the flu, all those can happen from a bad cold too...in susceptible people.

So, its the same exact thing in covid, only covid had so many more dead people to figure out.

But now it's the testing, before that it was nothing worse than a flu.

They may well find out there were more deaths than we thought too.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/20 05:52 PM.
#1166674 - 07/15/20 06:40 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu" - Fde

Now you're getting it Fde!

"How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before?" - Fde

Because there were no ulterior motives for doing it before.

John smile



Because of the way that it has always been calculated.

from memory...

My doc (Stanford grad) explained to me that in a typical flu year they count the deaths in flu months and subtract the death count in non flu months. The difference is the presumed death due to the flu. It's not a case by case tally.

The methodology in a pandemic event becomes more precise.

#1166675 - 07/15/20 06:47 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I think that FD has it right.

There are a lot of stats that can be presented with a political slant.

But daily hospitalizations and daily deaths are very finite. If the number of either is increasing and those people test positive, they may be diabetic or whatever else, but they were not likely to die this month from diabetes. My father lived to 97. If he had contracted this at 81, it would likely have killed him. That's 16 years that would have mattered very much to him.

#1166687 - 07/16/20 09:12 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I forgive all the sheeples, because they're just not strong enough to resist...


Brainwashing Steps 1 – 3

1. Social Influence. Social influence happens every minute of every day. Like the Media blasting us with fear and panic 24/7

2. Persuasion - Do it because it'll make you feel good/happy/healthy (yep, that's the one). Wear your mask, wash your hands, keep social distance, quarantine, etc

[b]3. Education Methods/ Propaganda Method.
Again, the Media blasting us with fear, panic, daily number scares, who to blame

Brainwashing is a severe form of social influence that combines all of these approaches to cause changes in someone's way of thinking without that person's consent and often against his will.

Best, John smile

#1166688 - 07/16/20 10:17 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I forgive all the deniers because they simply lack the ability to understand


education steps 1-3

1) do your own research, but focus on credible sources from the medical community. You cannot find sound medical information from news sites, opinion sites etc. Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins etc are good. Alex Jones, Youtube, political sites and and fringe news sites are bad

2) listen to informed people who have no axe to grind. Politicians, business owners, economists, bankers, etc are NOT able to give you the straight goods.

3) keep apprised of what is happening in your own community and around you. Again, listen to those in a position to know the facts, and who have no dog in the fight


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1166692 - 07/16/20 11:13 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I forgive all the deniers because they simply lack the ability to understand


education steps 1-3

1) do your own research, but focus on credible sources from the medical community. You cannot find sound medical information from news sites, opinion sites etc. Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins etc are good. Alex Jones, Youtube, political sites and and fringe news sites are bad

2) listen to informed people who have no axe to grind. Politicians, business owners, economists, bankers, etc are NOT able to give you the straight goods.

3) keep apprised of what is happening in your own community and around you. Again, listen to those in a position to know the facts, and who have no dog in the fight



Piss poor information John. And the sad part is, you really believe that crap.

#1166693 - 07/16/20 11:57 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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The government conspiracy theory falls by the wayside when you see other countries having the same problem. India is getting hit now.

It can't be a hoax to dethroe Trump when the rest of the world has it too.

Regardless of what anyone believes, it's a problem and has been the worst health crisis we've had since Aids. Bigger than Ebola and Sars

But much like all political conversationa, there is no winning the debate, minds won't be changed.

I have my doubts that many who deny it are not actually concerned, but from safety of home say it's a hoax.it seems to me that's the case but I'm not a mind reader

Let John and others say or think what they want to, he's not changing his mind and neither are you!



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/16/20 11:58 AM.
#1166695 - 07/16/20 12:11 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I forgive all the sheeples, because they're just not strong enough to resist...


Brainwashing Steps 1 – 3

1. Social Influence. Social influence happens every minute of every day. Like the Media blasting us with fear and panic 24/7

2. Persuasion - Do it because it'll make you feel good/happy/healthy (yep, that's the one). Wear your mask, wash your hands, keep social distance, quarantine, etc

[b]3. Education Methods/ Propaganda Method.
Again, the Media blasting us with fear, panic, daily number scares, who to blame

Brainwashing is a severe form of social influence that combines all of these approaches to cause changes in someone's way of thinking without that person's consent and often against his will.

Best, John smile




Yes. You are very correct.
And I worry about you John. Because your anti-big brother conspiracy theory inclinations which led you become a Libertarian and then fade back from it...are governed by the same internals that cause you to be accepting of anything in the "Waco, Ruby Ridge genre." Even when there is a clear, determinable and quantifiable threat to you and others.

But never fear Johnny....Marty is here to bring you back from the darkness. wink

And true education and "bias confirmation" should be kept separated in your mind.




#1166696 - 07/16/20 12:27 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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No, I don’t blindly accept the Libertarian philosophy. The philosophy has flaws. But the Libertarian philosophy is the closest you’re going to get to freedom. At present, we certainly know what it’s like living in a socialist society. Freedom of speech, freedom of choice, freedom to come and go as we please, and FREEDOM – all being wiped out. I probably won’t be alive in another decade, but I feel sorry for my children and the young children that will never experience the freedom we had as children. Sad indeed.

So, if you’re afraid to go outside – stay your sheeple asses home inside your cage. You’ll be safe from everything – except your freedom. But keep your media indoctrinated noses out of my business.

John mad

#1166698 - 07/16/20 01:04 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Will do.

I will keep my various doctrines out of your business...if I have any.
No need to get worked up.
If I had known that I was going to strike a nerve to that extent , I would not have made the remark.

#1166699 - 07/16/20 01:16 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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It wasn't particularly directed at you Marvin. Yes, when I see our country (land of the free – ha, ha) being torn apart and our freedoms being compromised, I get worked up. The question is, why isn’t anyone else.

John

#1166700 - 07/16/20 01:33 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
It wasn't particularly directed at you Marvin. Yes, when I see our country (land of the free – ha, ha) being torn apart and our freedoms being compromised, I get worked up. The question is, why isn’t anyone else.

John


There is still a great deal of freedom to be enjoyed in the US, still.
imo...the biggest threat to that is globalization and the elites who want the entire world to be their domain and centralization of societal control. And not only do they care nothing about a distinct American culture, but have antipathy for it. The problem is that they have the money that buys the politicians who pass the laws and send the police after dissenters.

It is a hard system to overcome. In my life the only single person that I have seen disrupt it is Trump. But whenever he makes any progress against the current, he blows a hole in the bottom of his own boat.

#1166702 - 07/16/20 01:33 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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John, just curious, how are you less free now than when you were a child?

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/16/20 01:34 PM.
#1166705 - 07/16/20 02:04 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Yeah I know it was a cheap shot but your sheeples comment rankled me

WRT to freedom. You have all the right in the world to go out and get exposed to Covid. Totally free to go out and get it.

But how free should you be to go out in a way that risks others?

You have cited lots of sources\websites that you say support your point of view.

It's a worldwide hoax, it's just a flu, it's a conspiracy of (pick one or more, they're free) big pharma, big business, big government, big swamp, if not G5 towers, vaccines, or just the Democrats needing to topple Trump in November. We need not again debate how useful these theories are to the conversation.

I see dead and dying people in the statistics published by very credible sources. You can debate about the margins but you can simply not deny the existance of the fact that people are dying after presenting with distressed respiratory systems in great numbers, much more than what has been established as normal.

I also see very smart and credible people working to deal with it...either in the health care system or the research community.

Now either everyone in the world is insane except for you and a few inclined libertarians, or there is something to this virus. And if there is something to it, what can we do to get most of us through to the other side?

Before talking about that....I'd really be curious to know, if you were President for a day and could enact a set of policies to get the most people possible out of this pandemic (and your choice whethere to call it that or even recognize its existence), what would you say and do?



Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I forgive all the deniers because they simply lack the ability to understand


education steps 1-3

1) do your own research, but focus on credible sources from the medical community. You cannot find sound medical information from news sites, opinion sites etc. Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins etc are good. Alex Jones, Youtube, political sites and and fringe news sites are bad

2) listen to informed people who have no axe to grind. Politicians, business owners, economists, bankers, etc are NOT able to give you the straight goods.

3) keep apprised of what is happening in your own community and around you. Again, listen to those in a position to know the facts, and who have no dog in the fight



Piss poor information John. And the sad part is, you really believe that crap.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1166707 - 07/16/20 03:15 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Elected leaders have an obligation to protect the people. When they actually do it, then people complain that their rights are being violated.

And if they did nothing, then the question would be Why didn't they do anything?

Does anybody think some chain smoker should be allowed to smoke right next to their kids in a movie theatre? But the chain smoker thinks, hey I paid my admission, why can't I smoke.

As many times as I mentioned this in this thread, nobody has addressed it. Is it not relavent? To me it is.

It means cant do what you want to, there are laws against doing what you want to. Freedom has not changed in 50 or 60 years.

Should you be allowed to drive 100mph.....in a school zone? Or anywhere where other people might be there?

Should you be allowed to fish or hunt endangered species?

Should you be allowed to own a plant that spews out toxic chemicals?

When Bloomberg tried to make buying a large soda illegal, ok to me that was rediculous.

But we're not free to do what we want. Actually, we are, but will face a price to do it. You can murder somebody if you want, but you will be executed if found guilty.

I guess there's a difference between freedom and free will.




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/16/20 03:17 PM.
#1166794 - 07/19/20 09:59 AM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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So I subscribe to an investment newsletter...from the latest edition....not saying it is right, but a very cogent argument is being made that the world over reacted. JLS you will definitely find it interesting because it does confirm some of what you have been arguing


Dear Reader,

How do you invest in a COVID world plagued by immense division among the people?

Let me tell you.

But you have to promise that regardless of your views on COVID or politics, to read this to the end.

This Letter isn't about Covidiots or Left and Right; it's about seeking the truth.

What you are about to read may appear to be right-leaning or non-COVID believing at first.

But it isn't because I am against protecting the vulnerable, or I am friends with Donald Trump. It's because the mainstream media has been feeding you everything possible to make you believe what they say - and what they say are often very left-leaning viewpoints.

Considering the majority of mainstream news outlets are controlled by left-leaning owners and editors, you shouldn't be surprised.

In other words, you have already heard their side of the story - since, for some reason, if you don't believe COVID will kill everyone, you're automatically a Republican.

But here's the thing...

If you have been following the advice and opinions of these outlets, you would have likely buried yourself in a bunker and wouldn't have invested in the stock market due to COVID fears.

Which is why I want to share the other side - a side that's not trying to limit your growth or goals of becoming financially independent.

Now before you go and attack me, let me preface what you're about to read - since I know there will be some of you who might say, "Why should we listen to you? You're not a doctor!"

And you'd be right.

I am not a scientist, epidemiologist, or virologist, neither. I am simply an investor.

But I do know the power of seeking the truth. And if you sought the truth as I did back in March, you would likely be in a much better financial position than you were before.

Don't let your biases prevent you from building wealth - that's precisely what "they" want.

The Other Side

What you're about to read is written by a well-known Swiss professor in the field of immunology.

Where many "experts" rely on modeling and "theories," immunology professors rely on science.

And since I have been called a "conspiracy theorist" for not believing in the severity of COVID, I thought it would be wise to show you a view based on science, and not from those who rely on "theories."

The below Letter is from Dr. Beda M Stadler, a former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus. Stadler is an important medical figure in Switzerland.

His Letter was originally published on June 10th, 2020, and then translated on Medium a few weeks later. I have added a few grammatical corrections of my own. Pardon any copyright issues.

Why Everyone Was Wrong
June 10, 2020


The coronavirus is slowly retreating. What actually happened in the past few weeks? The experts have missed basic connections. The immune response against the virus is much stronger than we thought.

By Beda M Stadler

This is not an accusation, but a ruthless taking stock [of the current situation]. I could slap myself because I looked at Sars-CoV2- way too long with panic. I am also somewhat annoyed with many of my immunology colleagues who so far have left the discussion about Covid-19 to virologist and epidemiologist. I feel it is time to criticize some of the main and completely wrong public statements about this virus.

Firstly, it was wrong to claim that this virus was novel.

Secondly, It was even more wrong to claim that the population would not already have some immunity against this virus.

Thirdly, it was the crowning of stupidity to claim that someone could have Covid-19 without any symptoms at all or even to pass the disease along without showing any symptoms whatsoever.

But let's look at this one by one.

1. A New Virus?

At the end of 2019, a coronavirus, which was considered novel, was detected in China. When the gene sequence, i.e., the blueprint of this virus, was identified and was given a similar name to the 2002 identified Sars, i.e., Sars-CoV-2, we should have already asked ourselves then how far [this virus] is related to other coronaviruses, which can make human beings sick. But no, instead, we discussed from which animal as part of a Chinese menu the virus might have sprung. In the meantime, however, many more people believe the Chinese were so stupid as to release this virus upon themselves in their own country.

Now that we're talking about developing a vaccine against the virus, we suddenly see studies that show that this so-called novel virus is very strongly related to Sars-1 as well as other beta-coronaviruses, which make us suffer every year in the form of colds.

Apart from the pure homologies in the sequence between the various coronaviruses, which can make people sick, [scientists] currently work on identifying a number of areas on the virus in the same way as human immune cells identify them. This is no longer about the genetic relationship, but about how our immune system sees this virus, i.e., which parts of other coronaviruses could potentially be used in a vaccine.

So: Sars-Cov-2 isn't all that new, but merely a seasonal cold virus that mutated and disappears in summer, as all cold viruses do — which is what we're observing globally right now. Flu viruses mutate significantly more, by the way, and nobody would ever claim that a new flu virus strain was completely novel. Many veterinary doctors were therefore annoyed by this claim of novelty, as they have been vaccinating cats, dogs, pigs, and cows for years against coronaviruses.

2. The Fairy Tale of No Immunity

From the World Health Organisation (WHO) to every Facebook-virologist, everyone claimed this virus was particularly dangerous because there was no immunity against it - because it was a novel virus.

Even Anthony Fauci, the most important advisor to the Trump administration, noted at the beginning at every public appearance that the danger of the virus lay in the fact that there was no immunity against it.

Tony and I often sat next to each other at immunology seminars at the National Institute of Health in Bethesda in the US, because we worked in related fields back then. So for a while, I was pretty uncritical of his statements since he was a respected colleague of mine.

The penny dropped only when I realized that the first commercially available antibody test [for Sars-CoV-2] was put together from an old antibody test that was meant to detect Sars-1. This kind of test evaluates if there are antibodies in someone's blood and if they came about through an early fight against the virus. [Scientists] even extracted antibodies from a llama that would detect Sars-1, Sars-CoV-2, and even the Mers virus.

It also became known that Sars-CoV-2 had a less significant impact in areas in China where Sars-1 had previously raged. This is clear evidence urgently suggesting that our immune system considers Sars-1 and Sars-Cov-2 at least partially identical and that one virus could probably protect us from the other.

That's when I realized that the entire world simply claimed that there was no immunity, but in reality, nobody had a test ready to prove such a statement. That wasn't science, but pure speculation based on a gut feeling that was then parroted by everyone. To this day, there isn't a single antibody test that can describe all possible immunological situations, such as: if someone is immune, since when, what the neutralizing antibodies are targeting, and how many structures exist on other coronaviruses that can equally lead to immunity.

In mid-April, work was published by the group of Andreas Thiel at the Charité Berlin. A paper with 30 authors, amongst them the virologist Christian Drosten. It showed that 34 % of people in Berlin who had never been in contact with the Sars-CoV-2 virus showed nonetheless T-cell immunity against it (T-cell immunity is a different kind of immune reaction, see below).

This means that our T-cells, i.e., white blood cells, detect common structures appearing on Sars-CoV-2 and regular cold viruses and therefore combat both of them.

A study by John P A Ioannidis of Stanford University — according to the Einstein Foundation in Berlin, is one of the world's ten most cited scientists — showed that immunity against Sars-Cov-2, measured in the form of antibodies, is much higher than previously thought.

Ioannidis is certainly not a conspiracy theorist who just wants to swim against the stream; nonetheless, he is now being criticized, because the antibody tests used were not extremely precise. With that, his critics admit that they do not have such tests yet. And aside, John P A Ioannidis is such a scientific heavy-weight that all German virologists combined are a light-weight in comparison.

3. The Failure of Modelers

Epidemiologists also fell for the myth that there was no immunity in the population. They also didn't want to believe that coronaviruses were seasonal cold viruses that would disappear in summer. Otherwise, their curve models would have looked differently. When the initial worst-case scenarios didn't come true anywhere, some now still cling to models predicting a second wave. Let's leave them their hopes — I've never seen a scientific branch that maneuvered itself so much into the offside. I have also not yet understood why epidemiologists were so much more interested in the number of deaths, rather than in the numbers that could be saved.

4. Immunology of Common Sense

As an immunologist, I trust a biological model, namely that of the human organism, which has built a tried and tested, adaptive immune system.

At the end of February, driving home from the recording of [a Swiss political TV debate show], I mentioned to Daniel Koch [former head of the Swiss federal section "Communicable Diseases" of the Federal Office of Public Health] that I suspected there was a general immunity in the population against Sars-Cov-2.

He argued against my view.

I later defended him anyway, when he said that children were not a driving factor in the spread of the pandemic. He suspected that children didn't have a receptor for the virus, which is, of course, nonsense.

Still, we had to admit that his observations were correct.

But the fact that every scientist attacked him afterward and asked for studies to prove his point was somewhat ironic. Nobody asked for studies to prove that people in certain at-risk groups were dying.

When the first statistics from China and later worldwide data showed the same trend, that is to say, that almost no children under ten years old got sick, everyone should have made the argument that children clearly have to be immune.

For every other disease that doesn't afflict a certain group of people, we would come to the conclusion that that group is immune. When people are sadly dying in a retirement home, but in the same place, other pensioners with the same risk factors are left entirely unharmed, we should also conclude that they were presumably immune.

But this common-sense seems to have eluded many, let's call them "immunity deniers" just for fun.

This new breed of deniers had to observe that the majority of people who tested positive for this virus, i.e., the virus was present in their throats, did not get sick.

The term "silent carriers" was conjured out of a hat, and it was claimed that one could be sick without having symptoms. Wouldn't that be something! If this principle from now on gets naturalized into the realm of medicine, health insurers would really have a problem, but also teachers whose students could now claim to have whatever disease to skip school, if at the end of the day one didn't need symptoms anymore to be sick.

The next joke that some virologists shared was the claim that those who were sick without symptoms could still spread the virus to other people.

The "healthy" sick would have so much of the virus in their throats that a normal conversation between two people would be enough for the "healthy one" to infect the other healthy one.

At this point, we have to dissect what is happening here: If a virus is growing anywhere in the body, also in the throat, it means that human cells decease. When [human] cells decease, the immune system is alerted immediately, and an infection is caused. One of five cardinal symptoms of an infection is pain. It is understandable that those afflicted by Covid-19 might not remember that initial scratchy throat and then go on to claim that they didn't have any symptoms just a few days ago.

But for doctors and virologists to twist this into a story of "healthy" sick people, which stokes panic and was often given as a reason for stricter lockdown measures, just shows how bad the joke really is. At least the WHO didn't accept the claim of asymptomatic infections and even challenges this claim on its website.

Here a succinct and brief summary, especially for the immunity deniers, of how humans are attacked by germs and how we react to them: If there are pathogenic viruses in our environment, then all humans — whether immune or not — are attacked by this virus. If someone is immune, the battle with the virus begins. First, we try to prevent the virus from binding to our own cells with the help of antibodies. This normally works only partially, not all are blocked, and some viruses will attach to the appropriate cells. That doesn't need to lead to symptoms, but it's also not a disease. Because the second guard of the immune system is now called into action.

That's the above-mentioned T-cells, white blood cells, which can determine from the outside in which other cells the virus is now hiding to multiply. These cells, which are now incubating the virus, are searched throughout the entire body and killed by the T-cells until the last virus is dead.

So if we do a PCR corona test on an immune person, it is not a virus that is detected, but a small shattered part of the viral genome. The test comes back positive for as long as there are tiny shattered parts of the virus left.

(In other words), even if the infectious viruses are long dead, a corona test can come back positive, because the PCR method multiplies even a tiny fraction of the viral genetic material enough [to be detected].

That's exactly what happened: when there was the global news, even shared by the WHO, that 200 Koreans who already went through Covid-19 were infected a second time and that there was therefore probably no immunity against this virus. The explanation of what really happened and an apology came only later when it was clear that the immune Koreans were perfectly healthy and only had a short battle with the virus.

The crux was that the virus debris registered with the overly sensitive test and therefore came back as "positive." It is likely that a large number of daily reported infection numbers are purely due to viral debris.

The PCR test, with its extreme sensitivity, was initially perfect for finding out where the virus could be. But this test cannot identify whether the virus is still alive, i.e., still infectious.

Unfortunately, this also led some virologists to equate the strength of a test result with viral load, i.e., the amount of virus someone can breathe out. Luckily, our daycare centers stayed open nonetheless. Since German virologist missed that part, because, out of principle, they do not look at what other countries are doing, even if other countries' case numbers are falling more rapidly.

5. The Problem With Corona Immunity

What does this all mean in real life?

The extremely long incubation time of two to 14 days — and reports of 22 to 27 days — should wake up any immunologist, and the claim that most patients would no longer secrete the virus after five days. Both [claims] in turn actually lead to the conclusion that there is — sort of in the background — a base immunity that contorts the events, compared to an expected cycle [of a viral infection] — i.e., leads to a long incubation period and quick immunity.

This immunity also seems to be the problem for patients with a severe course of the disease.

Our antibody titer, i.e., the accuracy of our defense system, is reduced the older we get. But also people with a bad diet or who are malnourished may have a weakened immune system, which is why this virus does not only reveal the medical problems of a country, but also social issues.

If an infected person does not have enough antibodies, i.e., a weak immune response, the virus slowly spreads out across the entire body. Now that there are not enough antibodies, there is only the second, supporting leg of our immune response left: The T-cells begin to attack the virus-infested cells all over the body. This can lead to an exaggerated immune response, basically to a massive slaughter; this is called a Cytokine Storm.

Very rarely, this can also happen in small children, in that case, called Kawasaki Syndrome. This very rare occurrence in children was also used in our country to stoke panic. It's interesting, however, that this syndrome is very easily cured. The [affected] children get antibodies from healthy blood donors, i.e., people who went through coronavirus colds. This means that the hushed-up [supposedly non-existent] immunity in the population is, in fact, used therapeutically.
What Now?

The virus is gone for now. It will probably come back in winter, but it won't be a second wave, but just a cold. Those young and healthy people who currently walk around with a mask on their faces would be better off wearing a helmet instead because the risk of something falling on their head is greater than that of getting a serious case of Covid-19.

If we observe a significant rise in infections in 14 days [after the Swiss relaxed the lockdown], we'd at least know that one of the measures was useful. Other than that, I recommend reading John P A Ioannidis' latest work in which he describes the global situation based on data on May 1st 2020: People below 65 years old make up only 0.6 to 2.6 % of all fatal COVID cases.

To get on top of the pandemic, we need a strategy merely concentrating on the protection of at-risk people over 65. If that's the opinion of a top expert, a second lockdown is simply a no-go.

On our way back to normal, it would be good for us citizens if a few scaremongers apologized.

Such as doctors who wanted a triage of over 80-year old COVID patients in order to stop ventilating them. Also, media that kept showing alarmist videos of Italian hospitals to illustrate a situation that as such didn't exist. All politicians are calling for "testing, testing, testing" without even knowing what the test actually measures. And the federal government for an app they'll never get to work and will warn me if someone near me is positive, even if they're not infectious.

In winter, when the flu and other colds make the rounds again, we can then go back to kissing each other a little less, and we should wash our hands even without a virus present. And people who'll get sick nonetheless can then don their masks to show others what they have learned from this pandemic. And if we still haven't learned to protect our at-risk groups, we'll have to wait for a vaccine that will hopefully also be effective in at-risk people."





If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1166807 - 07/19/20 12:04 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Sunset Poet Online content
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The internet and the Covid pandemic have taught me something I didn't truly realize before the internet and Covid.

Back in the days of printed media, I would read something that was false and say to myself that no else really believes it either. It is just propaganda put out by some editor so that people will scream at their newspaper while drinking morning coffee. And eagerly await the next newspaper.

But Covid has given us a dangerous and disruptive issue of biblical proportion and the internet has given us an ability to look into the minds of millions of people regarding it. The internet is the microscope and the disease is the laser focused fixation. Unlike social issues Covid is a disease that makes people sick and possibly die. All but the screw-iest amongst us can agree that is an undesirable thing.

I never realized how subjective reality is for uncountable numbers of people. I never realized how so many attitudes are predetermined by genetic leanings and intractable in the face of opposing truth.

The ancient Greeks revered numbers because behind everything in the physical universe is a numerical explanation. I believe that too. It is because of them and that belief that we have technological advancements. Other societies have their various mystics who dispense "truth." We have Aristotle and Pythagoras. But that does not matter when people need to believe something because it validates their world view and most closely held agendas and personal philosophies. They either figure out some work-around-explain-away or just simply deny the unwanted facts without bothering to think through them.

It is all just another layer of weird thrown on top of many layers of weird.

This episode of "Musings by a Moron" is brought to you by Marty

#1166808 - 07/19/20 12:25 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Yeah, Marty but you have to wonder if the internet being there caused all the controversy or the controversy itself.

If somebody reads a conspiracy theory online, they can then adopt it themselves, which before they may not have even considered it.

It can be anybody. A cab driver can post a theory,and a certain amount of people will read and start saying the same stuff.

I think the fact that nobody believes the news they read, is a problematic thing.

And it seems not believing is as much fun, and stimulating as believing is.

Media needs to change.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/19/20 12:46 PM.
#1166809 - 07/19/20 12:47 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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#1166810 - 07/19/20 12:55 PM Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Seems I saw that before John, in my quest for the truth. Good to know their are rational minded people left on Earth (not many though).

Marty & Fde: I don't think the Internet causes the panic as much as the TV News Media. Every day, 24-7 the rambling of fear & panic saturates the airwaves. The stupid, deceitful numbers game. Which no one can really authenticate. We had an appropriate Sermon at church today. The title, “The Importance of Inculcation”. If you don’t know what it means, look it up. Inculcation is exactly what the Media is using against the “people in panic mode”. I was going to say Sheeples, but since it rattles people, I’ll try to refrain from using that term. Dictionary meaning of Sheeples: “people who tend to follow the crowd; a blend of sheep and people” and “people who are docile, compliant, or easily influenced: people likened to sheep”.

Peace, though I doubt it will ever happen, John smile

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