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#1164992 - 06/04/20 03:35 PM Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic  
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I did a slower version of this 6 years ago. Though I would up the tempo and do it a little folkier to pitch to a British folk group.
It's a play on the name Rosemary and tells of a female who's a bit of an enigma and recluse.
Lyrics are by Travis and I. I don't expect anyone to remember the first recording but I'd like to hear your opinion of this one

https://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold/hint-of-rosemary-1

A HINT OF ROSEMARY © Vic Arnold/John Vaughan 2014
v1
She lived independently in a cottage by the bay.
When her parents died she was all alone but decided she
would stay.
Hardly ever came to town. The garden filled her needs.
Now and then she'd sell perfume that smelled of Rosemary
v2
Pruned her roses every spring, and took petals from the
blooms.
She gathered them with herbs and seeds and mixed with
morning dew.
Scent drifted through the valley on the autumn breeze,
bringing love and peaceful dreams with that hint of

Rosemary.
ch
Lavender and chamomile, cedarwood and sap of pine,
orange blossom, fennel seeds and just a hint of Rosemary.
Just a hint of Rosemary.
v3
Rumours say she'd loved a man but no one could be sure
Some say he was a captain on a British man o' war.
They say he couldn't settle and hungered for the sea
When finally he left he took the heart of Rosemary
ch
Lavender and chamomile, cedarwood and sap of pine,
orange blossom, fennel seeds and just a hint of Rosemary.
Just a hint of Rosemary.
inst
br
The only one to get up close was closer to the sea
The only one to ever take a part of Rosemary.
ch
Lavender and chamomile, cedarwood and sap of pine,
orange blossom, fennel seeds and just a hint of Rosemary.
Just a hint of Rosemary.
Drifting through the valley. Just a hint of Rosemary.


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1164993 - 06/04/20 03:51 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Vic,

I think it's a great folk tune . . . terrific write by the two of you. Catchy melody on that chorus. From a production standpoint, the accordion jumps out a little too much for me in spots distracting form the vocal. I might think about dialing that down just a tad--but that's a pretty nitty suggestion. The production is really solid all the way through regardless. I really like the way you move to spoken word in that third verse--very nice touch there.

Very cool tune, gents. Good luck pitching it--they'd be nuts to pass, IMHO.

(BTW, 6 years ago was before my time here, so I don't think I ever heard the original, but I can't imaging this at a slower tempo--this is just perfect for me).

My best to you,

Deej

#1164997 - 06/04/20 06:16 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Unless you say the woman's name is Rosemary upfront, when you get all the way to the third vs, past all the flowers, herbs and spices, the listener won't know who or what Rosemary is. The entire second vs is about gardening. Use that space to deepen the story and make it about more than sharing the word "Rosemary".

For example, if she's a recluse, how'd she meet a ship's captain? More story, less herbs and spices.

Just a thought.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1165001 - 06/05/20 02:27 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Cheers Dave. Thanks for listening and your positive comnents
John


We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
#1165005 - 06/05/20 07:56 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Thanks Deej.
I took the accordion down a tad.
Grateful for your input.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165007 - 06/05/20 08:44 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Hi Travis and Vic:

I listened yesterday but lost power before I could comment. There must be a million ways to "tweak" your revised creation... and no, I don't remember hearing the original... but I enjoyed what you are attempting to accomplish. Couch may be on to something about the story-line... but always make adjustments slowly and deliberately... assuming you have the time and desire.

In re-working many of the songs in my catalog (catalogue to you)... it is amazing to hear an early version and discover all the little things I should have given more attention... or left out entirely. I've begun to experiement more with tempo and even tried different genres. Sometimes it works... sometimes it sounds like two tomcats thrown into a "toe-sack" and tied to a clothesline... LOL!

Grind away, my friends... you are nearly there. I wonder what the Kingston Trio would have suggested and how it would have sounded in one of their performances?

All the best, ----Dave

Last edited by Dave Rice; 06/05/20 08:46 AM. Reason: Arthritic Fingers trying to type at warp-speed!
#1165015 - 06/05/20 11:47 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: couchgrouch]  
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I take it gardening isn't on your favourite list of hobbies, Couch?

Thank you for your comment. I thought the message was pretty clear.
A simple tale of a woman who gets her heart broke by a sailor and spends the rest of her life of solitude making perfume.
That's all there is to it. .

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165019 - 06/05/20 12:23 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Nice tune guys, I think it mentions "she" and when sung it becomes obvious rosemary is a woman, it's a romantic ballad. Vic I think you could revisit the harmonies some seem off.

It does remind me of my own song posted here, the future is Rosie
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1160992/the-future-is-rosie.html


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/05/20 12:23 PM.
#1165023 - 06/05/20 02:36 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Vic, the lyric doesn't say that. It has her selling perfume "now
and then" in the first vs (after saying she was alone), then completely clouds the theme by spending several lines on gardening leading to the first chorus. The sailor doesn't turn up until later and what does he have to do with her occupation? Did she change her occupation because of being heartbroken? If so, what was it before?

BTW, a verse is generally considered to be everything before a chorus. With that in mind, your first vs is, I don't mean to be offensive, a tangled mess.

Develop a thought leading into a chorus, then another one leading into the next etc.

I like gardening just fine but the song is structured completely bass ackwards and out of whack.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1165025 - 06/05/20 02:55 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Technically every thing Couch said is correct. In the real world of music there is similarly glitched songs out there.

I'd say, if you re really trying to land a cut, have a hit, have somebody unknown get noticed, capture the attention of an artist who wants to do your song, I'd say it's spot on advice. Most are not taking it as serious as you, you wouldn't let yourself write like this cause you have trained yourself to try to write like a professional.

Technically, every word used has repercussions for the entire thing, even the rhyme scheme has a purpose and not just to make a rhyme.

Not everybody is that serious, and are not artists, just couple of guys writing a song together.






Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/05/20 02:57 PM.
#1165027 - 06/05/20 03:24 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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The story is quite straight forward. She lives as stated independently, meaning her financial circumstances were determined by the legacy of the cottage left to her by her parents plus a few bob extra.
Although alone now she decided to remains there.
She is also able to live off what she grows in her garden.
Being a resourceful lady, she flogs perfume that she's concocted from herbs etc that she grows.
Lavenders aroma for instance is a well known sleep aid. So she has a aromatherapy side line

The 3rd verse tells of her love for a mariner, who might or might not have been around when her parents were alive it doesn't matter.
He decided he preferred the sea to her and off he went
t. So she probably yearned for his return one day. Or perhaps thought he was a selfish git and not worth bothering about?
you need to use your imagination here

Last edited by Travis david; 06/05/20 03:39 PM.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
#1165028 - 06/05/20 03:26 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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I took a dump in a Texaco bathroom, scrawled a phrase on the stall, came back two weeks later and FD had commented. It's inevitable. Except it took him a thousand words to say I was right.about this song.

I didn't train myself to write like a professional, I trained myself to write like a writer.

I'm no carpenter, but I'm trying. I built a birdhouse a few weeks ago, put it in the yard, learned from my mistakes and the second one was much better. I'm never going to be a professional but why have a f^cked up birdhouse in your lawn? Songs are subjective and birdhouses aren't but still...

I said basically the same thing about one of Travis' songs nearly two years ago. And suffered for it. There are certain things you have to do for a song to be an actual song. This one is a snowman that's built upside down.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1165029 - 06/05/20 03:29 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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There's a thing called being diplomatic, and trying to understand both sides.

And if it took you two weeks to take a dump, maybe add some bran flakes into your diet. Id get that checked.

Right about the song, wrong how you deal with people.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/05/20 09:49 PM.
#1165031 - 06/05/20 03:54 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Thanks for all suggestions and comments folks especially Coach for reminding us he is a writer.

Last edited by Travis david; 06/05/20 03:56 PM.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
#1165032 - 06/05/20 03:59 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Thanks Fdem.
I will check out the harmonies.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165033 - 06/05/20 04:04 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Thanks again for your views Couch.

I think you may be over analysing. The song isn't on a timeline. I think most would get it.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165034 - 06/05/20 04:35 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Steve Altonian Online content
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Originally Posted by Vicarn


I thought the message was pretty clear.
A simple tale of a woman who gets her heart broke by a sailor and spends the rest of her life of solitude making perfume.
That's all there is to it.


Your tracks are awesome. Great work Vic. The Lyric has some really great imagery, but I was wondering in the first 2 verses what the song was really about...The CHORUS in and of itself doesn't tell me she lost him, & the 3rd verse only introduces that thought...It is too late then. Plus since your CHORUS is really abstract (I do love it) your VERSES gotta be laser sharp.

My first thought is to compare this song to "Brandy" by The Looking Glass....Why? Your sentiment above is similar to "Brandy"...Your girl sells perfume, while Brandy is a Bartender, who loves a man who's not around...They both love sailors, & both lose their man to the sea....

The difference between "Rosemary" & "Brandy" is we know from the first verse what "Brandy" is all about. To the second verse, to bridge every word in "Brandy" propels the tune forward.

That thought in "Brandy" never stops from the first line....That's what you want in "Rosemary"





Steve Altonian---"I'll just do my best & let God do the rest"

http://www.stevealtonian.com
#1165036 - 06/05/20 05:15 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: couchgrouch]  
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I must say I never wrote from a set of common rules, just common sense.
To me it seems that the analysis demonstrates that you know what the song is about by saying what it ought to say. So, my work is done.

I wonder if Cohen had this sort of critique with "Hallelujah".


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165039 - 06/05/20 05:42 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Originally Posted by Vicarn

I wonder if Cohen had this sort of critique with "Hallelujah".


Not Hallelujah, but how about "Don't Blink" ? Were you ever on the old Tune Smith Songwriting Forum?

The thread on "Don't Blink" was classic...Writer or co-writer not sure, posted the tune for critique on the forum and people were ripping the tune. Good writers, great Nashville writers who have a string of hits were critiquing it to get the song better.....All the while it's being "cut" in the Studio by Chesney....

The place exploded...After they found out it was already cut...People were slamming the tune & Chesney sold millions & loved the tune they were ripping...Every one who critiqued the tune was pretty upset there wasn't full disclosure. Their critiques meant nothing as the song would be on the airwaves as their critiques were literally being written...BTW, Chesney changed only 1 line in that song in his critique. It was the line about the pipe. I am going on memory here but I wanna say Kenny C didn't like the verbiage "corn cob pipe". So he changed the line from "corn cob pipe" to "old pipe"...A less descriptive line, but did not want the corn cob pipe line originally written, & I also wanna say he felt it was a semi-demeaning line? or had some kind of connotation in the South? I am from LA so I don't know...

You put a song on a FORUM who knows what will happen Vic & Travis

Much respect to both of you...




Steve Altonian---"I'll just do my best & let God do the rest"

http://www.stevealtonian.com
#1165042 - 06/05/20 07:01 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Steve A, I was a member there as well, I didn't know much about country but they were much tougher on crits. I think it was cause it was assumed, people were pitching to nashville. you had more no comments than constructive ones . Years later it fell apart. I still miss some of them characters, we had a diverse group of numbskulls...lol

I remember the don't blink thread , and I remember your song nyc cowboy.

At the end of the day, all those crits probably didn't matter one bit, nobody really has a chance at a major cut anyway.

Your best shot is doing your own thing, if nothing else nobody can turn you down, and rules and theory don't have to be applied.

Today, there are so many songs that don't make any sense that become hits so it depends what your goal is.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/05/20 07:04 PM.
#1165044 - 06/06/20 06:24 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Thank you Mr. Rice.
Thank you for your comments. I take all comments on board but not all make sense to me.
Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165045 - 06/06/20 07:02 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Thanks Steve.
It's interesting how different people view the song.
For me, the song is just about the mystery woman who lives on her own. The sailor part is just a local rumour to explain a possible reason for her reclusiveness. Other than that the sailor is unimportant. I could have said "rumour says she grows her own weed and mushrooms" to explain her behaviour. Maybe that would have fitted in better with garden enthusiasts. :-)

No, I wasn't on that forum but I can imagine the smiles.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165046 - 06/06/20 07:17 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Quote
I thought the message was pretty clear.
A simple tale of a woman who gets her heart broke by a sailor and spends the rest of her life of solitude making perfume.
That's all there is to it.


That's how I heard it. Very well done Vic & Travis! Excellent!

Best, John smile

#1165053 - 06/06/20 10:18 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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We all hear things differently. I loved the story. From what I heard and read, Rosemary didn't become a recluse until after her parents died. I had the impression that she met the captain before that happened - while she was younger and more social.(most of us don't lose our parents until we're past 40) Not a whole lot of details can be put into a 3 - 4 minute song. As far as the song goes - I think you can skip the bridge you have and use V3 as a bridge. In fact, while listening, due to your making most of V3 spoken word, I thought you had a emotional rise with those lyrics and put a surprise climax by finally revealing that the subject of the story was named Rosemary. Well done.

Summeoyo

#1165058 - 06/06/20 11:28 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Thanks John.
Glad you got a meaning out of it.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165065 - 06/06/20 01:10 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Added.... When the lyric is laid out in paper it gets looked at more than it probably should .stories in songs are heard not read. I'm guilty of doing that because it's there. and I assume the lyricist wants some feedback. Worse, some only read the lyric which makes no sense. There's never been a song I've heard away from a forum that I read the lyric before I heard the song...never.

Main objection I have is what significance is the scent of rosemary ?

I get the double hook spice and name ....But what significance does it have?

What is the scent of rosemary conveying.

Didn't like the line she lived independently.

Overall, it was an enjoyable listen

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/06/20 01:14 PM.
#1165068 - 06/06/20 02:53 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Great song guys. The tempo is definitely right. I don't think you would want this to be any slower.

Couch is wrong when he says the story isn't clear. I immediately made the connection between the name and the herb, and I think just about anyone would. The fact that you do have to make that little jump is actually quite satisfying.

As Couch suggests, you could develop the story more, but that might actually be a mistake. This is light airy kind of song. It doesn't need to be cluttered with more detail. Couch's method of writing is only one way to do it and not necessarily the best way. If you wrote this in his style, it would be less accessible and approachable and probably less enjoyable. You did enough to make me picture the scene and the woman, and that's really all the song needed to do.

The chorus is the star here. I like choruses like this which list a bunch of different things. They are fun to sing. Also, all the words in the chorus are enjoyable to pronounce. Camomile, lavender, cedarwood - these are melodious words. Add in the pleasant associations of their perfumes and you have a fun song that works on different levels. There is more to a song than the meaning and story.

#1165069 - 06/06/20 02:59 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Thank you Summeyoyo.
Agreed. We all hear things differently, depending on our personality and what we want to hear.
I wanted to leave something to the imagination. Whether she was hurt by a guy or not is really immaterial.
That, as it says in verse 3 is a rumour, spread through the valley by the locals, many of whom probably lusted after her or are jealous of her.
She is a mystery.
People aren't comfortable with unsolved mysteries which is evident from some of the comments.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165074 - 06/06/20 06:13 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Hi Fdemetrio.
It's hard to explain a song in detail but I'll give it a go.
The scent is a nicety. Helps to build up an emotion.
Think of an age gone by when girls were sugar and spice and all things nice.
If that wasn't there she would lack some character. She could have been an old witch boiling dead rats and frogs in a cauldron. :-)
She is a mystery, hardly ever seen but her presence drifts through the valley as scent on the breeze.
I understand that not everyone will appreciate the write but that's the way it is.
Not that keen on the word "independently" myself but it is descriptive.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165075 - 06/06/20 06:30 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Yeah I got that it was her "vibe" in a sense that she was giving off.

I guess if something is a mystery then you can't really write it wrong...lol

Like dreams I've written songs about dreams and somebody say that doesn't make sense, well yeah, do any dreams make sense?




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/06/20 06:31 PM.
#1165079 - 06/06/20 10:13 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Vic, I sense a bit of your Welshness coming through in this song. In your gentle description of this lady, I hear faint echoes of Dylan Thomas and "Under Milk Wood."

#1165085 - 06/07/20 05:24 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Thanks Gavin.
I agree with all you said. Yes, this is a light and airy song. Not an epic tale of derring do. It's an atmosphere rather than a story. I think you got it in a nutshell.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165086 - 06/07/20 07:55 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Yes, Fdemetrio.
A dream can be an attractive thing and isn't always able to be explained. We just have to go along with it and hope we don't wake up to soon.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165090 - 06/07/20 10:11 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Yes Gavin. You could be right.
I was born close to Llaraggub. Brought up mainly in London though, but you know what they say about taking the Welshman out of Wales but not Wales out of the Welshman.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165096 - 06/07/20 11:35 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Thanks for all the positive comments received for Rosemary.
Sadly you can't please everyone it seems, but all comments and suggestions are appreciated.
Regards
John


We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
#1165100 - 06/07/20 12:16 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Well, you pleased me... and I'm pretty picky for a "Welshman" long away from Llandeilo... in my dreams.

#1165111 - 06/07/20 02:38 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Hey Dave.
I have ancestors from near Llandeilo. We may be related.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165112 - 06/07/20 02:52 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Hey Vic:

We left Dynevor (near Llandeilo) with Strongbow when he invaded Ireland several centuries ago. Then we stayed in Ireland (my ancestors) for about 700 years until Cromwell sent us to Barbados in chains for being Catholics. (I'm now a Methodist... if any of that matters) LOL! Immigration to America came a few years later when George Washington befriended us.

My visits to Wales were always amazing. Wish I could return and stay for a couple of months but that's not going to happen at this late stage.

Later, Cousin Vic! ----Dave

#1165120 - 06/07/20 05:09 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Vicarn Online content
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Ah. Before my time Dave.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165234 - 06/10/20 09:39 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Lovely Story song. Enjoyed listening.

Martin

#1165244 - 06/10/20 12:06 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Thanks Marty
Appreciate your comments and ears
John


We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
#1165250 - 06/10/20 04:15 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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what's not to like?
It's got a lovely swing to it and the lyrics are excellent.
Good call bringing in the chorus earlier - set up nicely BTW.
If I were being super picky, might mention the harmonies could track the lead vox a bit better but I'm not, so I won't smile
Great collab guys - enjoyed it smile
Paul

#1165253 - 06/10/20 05:55 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Vicarn Online content
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Thanks for that, Martin.
Glad you enjoyed it.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165254 - 06/10/20 06:49 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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Travis, I don't need to use my imagination, you do. You wrote it. But I can imagine if you tried to pitch this to a Nashville publisher. He/she would tell you to pick a theme, gardening or love and support it with the vss. Or, if gardening was a metaphor for love or life, structure it so it doesn't look lopsided, backwards and
half-assed, which it does. See Garth Brooks' Wolves as an example of how to do it right.

They might also tell you that having a character named Rosemary selling Rosemary comes off as really cheesy.

What I'm saying is like learning the alphabet, it's basic. Having your internet buddies pat you on the back won't help you anymore than it did JPF The Original Series who wrote the same quality of stuff in 2009 as they did in 1999. They told each other they were just fine. And they never progressed beyond See Spot Run. I don't mean to come off as blunt but this needs a complete rewrite. So did that last one of yours I critiqued.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1165258 - 06/10/20 09:39 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Yeah, well them dummies back then used to tell certain people how great they were on a daily basis, they were wrong about that too, can't be right only some of the time.

I don't think Travis is trying to write for Nashville and I don't think Nashville is much of a proving ground any more. It's pop music with a banjo. And I don't think that you think Travis is trying for that either.

Bob Dylan wouldn't make it in classic Nashville either.

It's obviously not a song anyone would pick up, it's a song to be released
by oneself.

I know, I'm wrong

#1165262 - 06/10/20 11:45 PM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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FD, you need therapy. A team of monocle-wearing specialists
flown in from Austria. How long have you been obsessed with me? Decades, right?

C'mon...who were you on Toonsmith? You were a loser there, too, right? Confess.

Travis, I understand. He's defending his work. It's pride. Plus, it takes alot of effort to ask yourself what a verse needs to do before a chorus, then do it with metered lines. It's hard. Once you admit to yourself you want to commit to the craft, from that moment on, you can't just poop out whatever your clique on the Net will clap for.

But, what's your stake in this topic? I'm here.

That's it.

And that's just saaaad.


There was no one on JPF saying how great they were back then. I miss them all. They never really improved in their writing but they were great. Toonsmith had its share of blowhards which immediately confined them to mediocrity. People's work speaks for itself.

Whatever you want to say about Nashville, they still respect craftsmanship. This lyric lacks the rudimentary elements of that in such an obvious way, it's difficult to believe there's a debate on it.

Love and flowers? Fer Hank's sake...

Travis knows gardening. Fine. Set your first vs with a woman trying to plant a flower not
known for that type of soil. The other flowers grow fine there. Hint that she's lonely. Show, don't tell where you can.
This should only take two rhymed couplets.

Chorus

2nd vs. She falls for a man who has trouble laying down roots there. Is he a sailor? Say his roots are in the sea.

Chorus.

Bridge.

She's back gardening. The one type of flower withered, the other thrived. She smiles.

Chorus.

Name the song after the flower that thrives. Or, either one.



That's a lyric.


Last edited by couchgrouch; 06/10/20 11:47 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1165263 - 06/11/20 12:08 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Dohhhhhh. Obsessed in a way where you see a traffic wreck on the road and can't help but check it out perhaps, obsessed with you the person or you the writer , doh. You are as interesting as jock itch.

cmon, you not give a rats about Travis all you care about is people telling you your lyrics are great.

I read that last short story with rhymes at the end of it, I laughed in amusement. Nashville? Lolllllll

Your lyrics lack soul, they lack interest, they lack relevancy they are UnGodly boriing.

I got more talent in my pinkie than You got alltogether.

Your collaborators are unable to do anything with your lyrics, cause they arent made for music.

You'd lyrics they all are the same, long winded bullchit that nobody cares about . Before you start telling Others how to write learn yourself.

You might have something in short stories or books but you are wanna be lyric writer. Not one good line, just stories. Economy , study the beatles.

Bad writers get cuts every day so don't even go there.

What else you got chief?


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/11/20 12:11 AM.
#1165265 - 06/11/20 04:38 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Vicarn Online content
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What the hell caused all the anger here Couch?
You had your chance to critique earlier but you threw it away in a pompous, irrelevant rant and now you are just being offensive.
For your info, Travis and myself wrote the lyric and we didn't write it for Nashville.
It's a folk song.
You write to a formula, much like painting by numbers. Nothing wrong with that as long as you don't get stuck to close on it like you appear to be stuck in JPF in the good old days.
I repeat, this song is not about gardening or sailors or loneliness in particular.
You could argue that your latest song has too much architecture and landscaping in it. "Heavy cross to bear" could also be considered a bit of a cliche.

To use another cliche, "Why can't we all just get along"?

Vic



It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1165268 - 06/11/20 10:02 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Robert...
Take your meds. (Check with the wife to make sure that you have them right)
Then sit down.
Then take deep and slow breaths repeatedly until the world feels like a happier place.
Then maybe, take your nap.
This too will pass.

Martin smile

And no. I don't do this myself. I saw it in a video and thought that it might help you contain yourself. smile
And please post a picture of yourself so that we can all imagine a clearer visual of you doing it. smile

#1165269 - 06/11/20 10:22 AM Re: Hint of Rosemary. Travis & Vic [Re: Vicarn]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Here's what's eating Couchgrouch Grape
Zero replies 45 views, nobody likes it
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...-his-own-protection.html#Post1165187this

You used to see people saying " oh my goodness, I wish I could be inside your mind for 5 minutes, you are the greatest lyricist on these forums"...etc etc etc

If you compliment, he says thanks with a smile emojie, if you say one word is wrong, you are wrong and will be scolded.

Yet he can chop up anybody else. He used to be able to get away with being rude, indignant, and never offering a review to anyone, and he had a group of lyric only followers who would still praise him regardless how they were treated.

People finally figured out his lyrics are dull and boring, and got tired of the one way street. He sees Travis getting responses so he goes there to try to re establish himsef.

I can only imagine what it's like at his dinner table.... " this writer stinks" Yes, honey I agree... "Nobody has any talent, including Eric Clapton and Jack White". Yes I know dear, only you and nobody else, I'm so glad we both know how great you are...

Don't forget I know all about the corona virus too...." Now how could I forget that" eat your veggies. ....

Lolllllllllllll

fall from grace....he's the Jimmy Swaggart of lyric writing...






Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/11/20 10:28 AM.
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