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#1164995 - 06/04/20 05:04 PM Harry Fox Agency...  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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I did a piano arrangement of "Just the Way You Look Tonight" (Jerome Kern). How do I get permission to use it in film/ TV placements? I checked with the Harry Fox Agency website, bur seems they're pushing Rumblefish. When I went to license it there, this is what came up: "Use Rumblefish - our signature licensing and administration service". My publishers don't want anything to do with that service. I reckon even Harry Fox isn't what it used to be any longer.

Best, John smile

#1164999 - 06/04/20 07:53 PM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Warner Chappell is the publisher. I contacted them. We'll see what they say.

John wink

#1165003 - 06/05/20 06:54 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Will be interesting to know, John.


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

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#1165006 - 06/05/20 08:33 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Morning, John and Vic:

If I remember correctly, Warner Chappell Music began an initial public offering (IPO) on one of the major stock exchanges yesterday. The Music Modernization Act has caused a great deal of grief and consternation in the Biz and all the big labels are jockeying for position to line up for the money supposedly coming in from streaming. It sure isn't filtering down to those of us on the bottom rung of the ladder. Then there is the belief that the Government is going to come to their rescue and throw money at an unsolvable problem. (Not going to happen!)

Now ASCAP is claiming the Pandemic is causing delays in payments to Songwriters and Publishers... but in reality, I suspect they are building a war chest to keep their big name artists afloat until the economy and normality return to the days before all this double-disaster happened.

Years ago, when Derek Sivers was selling-off CDBaby... Rumblefish was mentioned often as a great place to get your songs and music "out there." WRONG! They had an agenda and treated new songwriters like dirt. I don't have a clue about this newer relationship with Warner Chappell Music but it ain't a marriage made in Heaven!

Eventually, all this dust will settle and everything will return to normal after the ANTIFA Goons have been sentenced for their crimes and causing all these riots.

Meanwhile... keep writing those great Melodies and tunes with commercial potential, John. I predict you have the best chances for survival in this current climate.

All the best, ----Dave

#1165008 - 06/05/20 08:48 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Morning Dave! No, Rumblefish isn't connected to Warner Chappell. But they're connected to the Harry Fox Agency. Yeah, I'm thinking along your thoughts about ASCAP. My domestic royalties were down a couple hundred dollars. International royalties was about the same.Yeah, we expect our PRO's to be fair, but fairness is another story.

Best, John smile

#1165050 - 06/06/20 09:05 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Sorry John:

I got caught up in my often-defective speed reading... LOL! One day, we will learn the truth about all of these "back-door" deals... when it is too late for us to even take evasive action... if it isn't already!

Have a great weekend. ----Dave

#1165235 - 06/10/20 10:12 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Well,
As I understand it, Harry Fox Agency is used by Publishing Companies to issue Mechanical Licenses and collecting the royalties for a mall fee. After a song is in Public Domain anyone can record and register their version and license it if they wish.
The song, JUST THE WAY YOU LOOK TONIGHT may be in Public Domain. If so, you don't need any permission to license your version. By the way, I have a CD I was given by somebody locally, that has the Recording, THE WAY YOU LOOK TO NIGHT on it. No Credits are listed. Several other well known songs are also on the CD. Again, no credits listed.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 06/10/20 10:13 AM.

Ray E. Strode
#1165240 - 06/10/20 11:05 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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OK,
Upon further research I listened to the recording I have by Jerome Kern and the song, THE WAY YOU LOOK TONIGHT.

The song at least here is an Orchestra Arrangement only and is from the Movie, SWING TIME released in 1936. That is older than me John! I think I heard Fred Astair sing some lyrics from the song one time so words may have been added later. As far as Copyright I think you are in the clear John. Good luck.


Ray E. Strode
#1165242 - 06/10/20 11:19 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
OK,
Upon further research I listened to the recording I have by Jerome Kern and the song, THE WAY YOU LOOK TONIGHT.

The song at least here is an Orchestra Arrangement only and is from the Movie, SWING TIME released in 1936. That is older than me John! I think I heard Fred Astair sing some lyrics from the song one time so words may have been added later. As far as Copyright I think you are in the clear John. Good luck.


Yes Ray, by the date it appears to be okay. But I remember the fiasco and threats from Warner Chappell on "Happy Birthday" - until someone had the courage to challenge Warner Chappell in court. The unknown person won the case and Happy Birthday became public domain.

One of my publishers didn't want to take a chance on this tune. One publisher said, sometimes the song changes publishers and there are problems with the term limit for PD. Complicated sheeet.

I did send Warner an email, but they never got back to me.

John wink

#1165281 - 06/11/20 06:31 PM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Maybe just a simple piano arrangement like this: http://schicksville.com/Just%20the%20Way%20You%20Look%20Tonight.mp3 With some very soft strings.

John smile

#1165282 - 06/11/20 07:03 PM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Pretty arrangement, John:

Good to know the song is younger than me... LOL! Thanks, Ray!

I love "old standards" and can't wait until more of them become Public Domain. No matter the era... America and the World have been blessed with some pretty great music.

Have a great evening, guys... ----Dave

#1165285 - 06/11/20 10:24 PM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Pretty arrangement, John:

Good to know the song is younger than me... LOL! Thanks, Ray!

I love "old standards" and can't wait until more of them become Public Domain. No matter the era... America and the World have been blessed with some pretty great music.

Have a great evening, guys... ----Dave


Jerome Kern died 75 years ago. So if you use the "70 year" rule. The tune should be public domain now.

Thanks Dave!
Best, John smile

#1165350 - 06/13/20 08:09 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Morning, John:

You are right in most cases... but for some reason, many of the "Old Standards" are being intentionally kept out of the Public Domain status. I spent days recording one, believing it was clearly PD... and was shocked to discover it's copyright had been extended. The Music Modernization Act has created many pitfalls and I wish I had the tenacity of a music attorney to go through it line for line and flesh out exactly what good it has done for plain folks like us. My suspicious nature kicks in when streaming is involved in anything.

Thanks for your comment about my latest Demo. It was easy and enjoyable... and I was pleased with the final product. I think it's ready to "pitch" if only there is anyone left to consider "Americana" or Modern Folk Genre Songs?

Have a great weekend. ----Dave

#1165351 - 06/13/20 08:26 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Yes, today, one never knows Dave. The rules are changing constantly. Well, I'm sending this out. It will be up to the publisher whether it will be used or not.

Yes, your track is ready for success Dave!

Best, John smile

#1165792 - 06/23/20 09:15 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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If you find a song that has been used in major television, movies, commercials, etc. you can bet someone owns the copyright on the song. Usually the children or decendents of that composer. There are also writers who have set up trusts that their music continues to earn money. So the 'public domain" is going to be somewhat misleading. Essentially, public domain was from a different era, that doesn't as much exist anymore. Someone will find ways to make money on certain songs.
"The way you look tonight" has been a very popular song, particularly in the past few years. It has been in quite a few movies and television, so I would expect that to be owned by someone.

MAB

#1165795 - 06/23/20 09:59 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Eh,
U.S. Copyright set the limits for a song to become Public Domain. At one time you could Register a Copyright for 28 years and Renew it for another 28 years. As I understand it, Copyright Law was changed to life of the composer plus 70 years or if more than one writer 70 years after the last writer dies. Copyright was changed, maybe in 1976 because people wanted to sell Disney Creations without licensing them from Disney so Disney went to Congress and got the Law changed. After a song has become public domain anyone can record the song and Register their version on the SR Form. Even if it is exactly the same as other versions. I don't know how many times the song WILL THE CIRCLE BE UNBROKEN has been recorded but some have recorded their version and Registered the Copyright and put their name on it. However after the time has run out a song does go into Public Domain and is there for anyone to record free and clear.
The SR form is used by Record Companies to Register a CD usually so no one can copy the CD and sell it without licensing it from the Copyright Owner.


Ray E. Strode
#1165803 - 06/23/20 11:53 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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"The way you look tonight" has been a very popular song, particularly in the past few years. It has been in quite a few movies and television, so I would expect that to be owned by someone.- Marc

I agree, nobody plays by the rules any longer Marc. Like Warner/Chappell with Happy Birthday. They claimed ownership (through intimidation) until someone had the nerve to challenge them in court. Now Happy Birthday is PD. The composer of "The Way You Look Tonight" has been dead 75 years. So the 70 years after death should apply.

Being popular in movies doesn't necessitate ownership. If it did all of the old PD Christmas tunes would still be owned by someone.

John smile

#1165841 - 06/24/20 11:35 AM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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The way it was explained to me by my ASCAP representative it was 70 years after the last direct living decendent of that writer, sons, daughters, wives, etc.. I do know of many people that recieve royalties from their parents long after they died.

MAB

#1165843 - 06/24/20 12:14 PM Re: Harry Fox Agency... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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I see the publisher is/was Warner Chappell. Well known for intimidating users. It took so long to pry Happy Birthday out of their hands.

Best, John smile


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