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#1163332 - 04/18/20 07:05 AM Are you a spender or a saver  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,810
Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2002
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,NL Canada
Most people today are living from pay cheque to pay cheque. Is this because pay has not kept up to the cost of living or are we living beyond our means? Some people earning $75,000. per year does not seem any better off than someone earning $40,000 per year. Why is that? Are we trying to keep up with the Jones's who are trying to keep up with the Smith's. Are we buying houses to live in or mansions to impress the neighbours. Are we taking too many vacations or too exotic vacations so we can boast where we've been.

When this virus struck and people lost their jobs, even temporarily, we had too look for taxpayers through our governments to bail us out. Governments are spending billions of dollars beyond their means, where are they going to recoup this money when the crisis is over. From the tax payers. If banks get into trouble like before when governments bailed them out, who paid the bill, taxpayers. If it happens this time governments will not bail them out, they have introduced something called "bail-in". This means savers with money in banks will have their money confiscated to pay off the bank's debt. Governments have been encouraging people to save for their retirement because they know there will be very little in government pension funds in the future. So now if people did save for their retirement, and their bank gets in trouble, they are going to make these savers pay for the banks mistakes or poor business practices. You are dammed if you do or if you don't save. The future is looking bleak and it comes down to greed and/or pride. Banks, through greed, got into trouble before and are now getting into more trouble. We over spend because the credit cards allow us to. We use credit cards like an open loan that charges four times what a bank would in interest, but as long as we can make the minimum payment, we don't seem to care.

I don't know what the answer is but I believe we are headed for a reckoning. With the economic slow down, this will mean less money going into government coffers and all this extra spending on top of the enormous debts that all governments owe, where will it end. Maybe another depression. Maybe something worst.

#1163342 - 04/18/20 12:37 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,026
Brian Austin Whitney Online content
Brian Austin Whitney  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2001
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Indianapolis, IN USA
I am a saver. Always have been. I saved for 6 years to buy a laptop. Used it for 3 months and #$# Ransom Attack destroyed it when I wouldn't pay. So now I am on a much much cheaper one, but it works after using my phone only for a year!

In my case I made some very small but successful investments, one after another. Like if I could get $100 together, I would by one or two shares of a stock. I picked companies either I personally used and liked (a good method) OR I researched and used my lifetime experience to think "is that a safe idea, likely to succeed?" I always go more for sure things than high risk/reward because I find that money could easily have been spent on something fun but forgettable, but a good stock that doesn't crash, can only grow, slowly maybe, but over time it adds up. This is how we got out of crushing credit card debt from our earlier years when we bought toys (music gear), took trips (between my wife and I) etc. We did nothing for 3 years but put every cent we had into paying it all off. When we had, we also had lost the interest in buying "stuff." So killing two birds with that one stone. Before we knew it, without all that interest and endless payments, we had tons of extra money. So we invested. And when they add up enough and we need something (a laptop, or in my case, 2) we cash out some stock and get what we need. We both have 7 year old phones. We do have too many movie channels, which we will do away with when the contract runs out this summer. Otherwise we almost never eat out, past a pizza once a month or a lunch out once a month at most, and that also saves tremendous money. We don't buy a lot of clothes. We saved up over a decade and paid cash for our small little car and my wife took a job 2 miles from home so that cut more costs.

My med bills are tremendous. That is our biggest expense. And I bet it is true for others of you as well. So we try to stay on top of those things, but when you need surgery and 4 months in the hospital, what can you do right? But we cut where we have to and make sure we have a safety valve. Of course due to the market crash, we lost most of the profits we had earned, so here's hoping our retirement money and small investments go back up a bit.

Saving saved us. I would never suggest or push a kid go to college unless they had a very specific passion that could only be addressed by specialized degrees (doctors, lawyers, engineers etc.) Liberal arts is a waste of money entirely. If a kid wants to pursue the arts or a career in media etc. then they need to go be an intern and slave away for those 4 years and be way ahead grads who will be behind them when they would have graduated with 6 figures of loans.

My two cents.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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jpfolkspro@gmail.com
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#1163345 - 04/18/20 12:54 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 637
Pat Hardy Offline
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Pat Hardy  Offline
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Most people today are living from pay cheque to pay cheque. Is this because pay has not kept up to the cost of living or are we living beyond our means? Some people earning $75,000. per year does not seem any better off than someone earning $40,000 per year. Why is that? Are we trying to keep up with the Jones's who are trying to keep up with the Smith's. Are we buying houses to live in or mansions to impress the neighbours. Are we taking too many vacations or too exotic vacations so we can boast where we've been.

When this virus struck and people lost their jobs, even temporarily, we had too look for taxpayers through our governments to bail us out. Governments are spending billions of dollars beyond their means, where are they going to recoup this money when the crisis is over. From the tax payers. If banks get into trouble like before when governments bailed them out, who paid the bill, taxpayers. If it happens this time governments will not bail them out, they have introduced something called "bail-in". This means savers with money in banks will have their money confiscated to pay off the bank's debt. Governments have been encouraging people to save for their retirement because they know there will be very little in government pension funds in the future. So now if people did save for their retirement, and their bank gets in trouble, they are going to make these savers pay for the banks mistakes or poor business practices. You are dammed if you do or if you don't save. The future is looking bleak and it comes down to greed and/or pride. Banks, through greed, got into trouble before and are now getting into more trouble. We over spend because the credit cards allow us to. We use credit cards like an open loan that charges four times what a bank would in interest, but as long as we can make the minimum payment, we don't seem to care.

I don't know what the answer is but I believe we are headed for a reckoning. With the economic slow down, this will mean less money going into government coffers and all this extra spending on top of the enormous debts that all governments owe, where will it end. Maybe another depression. Maybe something worst.


I've gigged as a jazz musician, but my primary trade for years was that of wedding photography. Either way, I never really earned enough money to save money. I suppose if I had a skill that earned some $80k per year, like most people, I would have. But, my professions just didn't allow it.

#1163349 - 04/18/20 01:39 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,610
John Voorpostel Offline
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John Voorpostel  Offline
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I grew up in a frugal household...parents born in just before the Great Depression and coming of age in WWII The Netherlands will do that to you. My father's favourite saying was "Retine Quod Habes...latin for hold on to what you have...when he spoke of his saving money. Glad I learned lots at the dinner table

So IMO part of it is definitely unchecked spending, and worse, buying discretionery things you consume on credit...like vacations

Part of it too is that there is a class of people who simply cannot get ahead because of low pay or life's circumstances throwing a wrench in...health costs (absolutely Brian) comes to mind for those who do not have universal health care..

And Everett, our CPP system is sound. We took care of that some 20 years ago when our government saw the boomer bulge coming. Our CPP investment fund is the 10th largest in the world with about 385BILLION in assets while Quebec's Caisse....is 13th largest.

And our banks cannot simply take our savings to pay off their debt. Not sure where you got that idea. The bail in regime actually deals with instruments the bank uses that are its own debts...so any bond issues they float that are bought by investors (not bank deposits, terms deposits, GICs etc, but actual bonds that can be bought and sold in securities markets) are converted into shares of the bank...so that instead of holding bonds that earn interest, the investor now owns common shares....and the bank removes this debt from their books and converts it to equity that forms part of its capital base




If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1163351 - 04/18/20 02:02 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: John Voorpostel]  
Joined: May 2017
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA
John, your Dutch ancestors rival mine in their reputation for frugality LOL.

Historically, people in Scotland didn't have much, so they had to be careful with what they had. As things got better, some of that philosophy persisted, and I was certainly taught it in my childhood. My parents prioritized. We never ate out, I don't remember my father ever going to the pub and we had an old car. On the other hand, we had a nice house and we went on vacation to France - but my mother painted the whole outside of the house herself and we slept in a tent when on vacation. I guess the lesson was that you could have nice things if you prioritized them and went about it the right way. Of course, it was also easier to plan because we had the National Health Service and college education was free. You paid your taxes and you knew where you stood. It is far harder to plan for the future here in America.

I hate spending money on stupid things, and my family makes fun of me for it, but I'm perfectly OK with spending on things that are important to me or them - which I wouldn't otherwise be able to do.

#1163352 - 04/18/20 02:24 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Nov 2017
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RonnieDean Offline
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RonnieDean  Offline
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Keystone, CO USA
It depends of what gear deals are available when I have the money.

#1163360 - 04/18/20 03:17 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Nov 2010
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Vicarn Offline
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Vicarn  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
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UK
Never seemed to have any money 'til I retired. Maybe because whenever it did come my way I would make the most of it and spend it before it disappeared.
Now I've retired I find I don't need it so much. Mortgage is paid, I don't owe a penny to any bank and the kids are doing much better than I ever did financially.

I was watching a series of tv documentaries which involved a rich family swopping places with a poor family. They were each given the other's weekly budget. The difference was something like 1500 to 150 and although the rich family found it difficult they still managed to get through the week ok. The poor family just went on a spending spree.

I suppose wealth is all relative. Whatever you have never seems to be enough when you're young but when you're older it all falls gently into place. It has in my case anyway.


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1163361 - 04/18/20 03:53 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Feb 2005
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Dave Rice Online content
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Dave Rice  Online Content
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Texas
My Step-Father lived through the great-depression as an orphan, always worked and always saved. He instilled the "pay-yourself-first" motto into my lifestyle... and it stuck. During most of my career, 401k's did not exist but I took full advantage when they were created. Encouraged my wife to do the same... so when retirement finally arrived, we had a pretty good nest-egg built up to supplement Social Security.

My pre-career jobs included Newspaper Route, Delivery Boy, Soda Jerk and Skating Rink Buckle Boy before becoming a Life Guard at the local swimming pool. Managed to save enough money to pay for my first year in College. Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones of Dallas Cowboy fame were seniors when I was a freshman. In mid-term, I joined a fraternity and that was the worst mistake of my life. Developed bad habits, obeyed stupid rules and engaged in snobbery.

Life is full of rocks and shoals. Put away as much money as you can for hard times. Live within your means. It will pay you many dividends later.

----Dave

#1163367 - 04/18/20 10:41 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2005
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Moosesong Offline
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Moosesong  Offline
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Roseville, CA, USA
I have been both over my life. I have not saved as much as I should have. I have the 6 months wages recommended cushion and some for retirement. I have to kick myself occasionally because I realize I could have retired already if I had saved more earlier in life.

When I was young I sometimes would let 2 or 3 paychecks gather before I would take them to the bank. I was comfortable, I had a big wooden box for a kitchen table, rent only took a small part of monthly wages. I wore tennis shoes till the holes were big enough to let the rocks hurt my feet. then I would go to kmart and get the cheapest replacements I could find. I was cheap.

But as my salary and job prospects improved I soon took money for granted and became a spender. now that I am at retirement age, I am a saver again.

Dave you are absolutely right, life will kick you whenever it is in the mood. Having money saved makes it hurt a whole lot less.


Staying 6 feet away is better than being 6 feet under.
Music page
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#1163379 - 04/19/20 07:50 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Aug 2002
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Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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,NL Canada
Glad to see you are all savers, but then we are mostly older people, we come from the generation before easy credit and credit cards. If we wanted something big to purchase, we had to save for it. The younger generation are much different, they want what they want, not what they need, and they want it now. I blame easy credit for driving up inflation so much. People are ready to buy items regardless of the price, just as long as they can make the payment each month. Manufacturers can take advantage of that, there are buyers waiting to snatch up their product before they have made it, so why not pad the price a little. You take cell phones, they have new models coming out almost every year that does a little bit more that their last model did, but the price is inflated to the point you might have to consider a loan to buy it, but there are people that have to have the latest in technology, so stick it on the credit card as long as the payment is within reach. When I was young a new car was between two or three thousand dollars, well built but didn't have all the doodads cars have today, but many of today's cars start at $40,000. that same car still only gets you from A to B and back, no doubt in greater comfort, but we are well paying for that comfort.

I know wages are a lot higher now, which had to be to pay for all this stuff which we feel we must have. But do we need two or three vacations a year? When I was raising my family I was lucky to have a vacation once every three years, and that was just a week visiting relatives in another city. Not in a fancy hotel on a beach. But to pay for all this the boss had to give higher and higher wages which had to be reflected in the product he was producing, which added to inflation.

John, I never even heard the term bail-in until I read an article a few days ago about it and this is what it was saying, I hope it is not true. In Canada our banking system is a lot different than in the US and we are suppose to be protected up to a certain dollar value if a bank went bust. I knew about the term bail out because a few years ago the government in the US had to bail out many banks that got themselves in trouble from greed and bad deals. This is why this bill was brought in to protect the taxpayers and put the ball-in cost on the shareholder of said banks. But this article said if you were a depositor in that bank and getting interest on your deposit, you were considered a shareholder of said bank. Cyprus, I believe it was Cyprus that ran into this problem a few year ago and people lost 40% of their savings to bail out the bank using this bail-in law. Now they were given shares in that bank for the money they lost, but they were not worth much unless that bank became profitable again, and who in their right mind would still deposit money in that bank so the bank could loan it out and make interest on it. Making interest on loans is only one way banks make money, they have all kinds of services that they charge fees for, so why do they get in trouble. By making too many bad loans which never gets paid back.

Governments, to get re-elected or elected in the first place, are spending money like it is water on any hair brained item to gain votes. Buying votes with taxpayers own dollars. They have the same attitude of todays youth, as long as they can make the payments on the money they've borrowed in the past and as long as it is under a certain percentage of GNP. But what happens when the economy slows down and GNP slows down, where do they get the money to pay their bills then, from the taxpayer. Voter should punish governments, not reward them, when they make all these promises to waste our money, but we don't. You can only put so much air in a balloon and then it bursts, only add so many straws to a camel's back before it breaks. Most of the western world is living way beyond its means, individually and collectively through our governments, and we will collapse under the weight of debt, it is only a matter of time. We can only kick the can down the road for so long before the can is worn out.

#1163380 - 04/19/20 08:20 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,652
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


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Crozet, VA
I am happy to say that my daughter is a pretty good saver. I taught her that when you pull out your wallet to pay for something, it should hurt (ha, ha). Now, of course, she never wants to pay for anything when we go out (OK, in the old days, pre-Covid) and doesn't seem to have her wallet with her. It is all my fault that she is really cheap.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1163381 - 04/19/20 08:39 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Feb 2005
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Dave Rice Online content
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Dave Rice  Online Content
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Texas
Morning, Everett:

Your point about cell phones/smart phones is right. Early on, after being caught up in the bigger and better new computer wish-list thing, I decided I would no longer be a slave to an electronic device, especially a phone.

I own a semi-smart-phone which is kept in the glove box of my car, turned off... waiting to be turned on by me... when an emergency arises... or I need to call home and see if a gallon of milk or loaf of bread is needed. The average cell-phone has more computing power than a brand new 386 computer of a few years back. It also contains tons of memory hog apps which provide little or no actual useful function other than to dumb-down the user or spy on his or her shopping habits. My other smart-phone was sold to me by an on-line TV marketing company. It arrived and I immediately discovered it had been owned by someone else. It included a pay-as-you-go Wireless Operating System for making phone calls. Neither company would help me get the phone changed into my name... after repeated tries and discussions with offshore operators who could care less about my problem. I eventually turned the darn thing into an MP3 player used only in "Airplane Mode" to store and allow me to listen to my own songs recorded by me. It was an expensive acquisition but at least now, I can use it for something without paying a monthly fee or relegating it to a dresser drawer.

Bail outs will eventually cause the demise of our Country if we cannot find a way to back-fill and eliminate this pile of printed money.

I'm really tired of political can-kicking. Hopefully, our voters will discover the politicians willing to take responsible action and act accordingly with their votes in the November Election

----Dave

#1163383 - 04/19/20 10:07 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I never made much. Could not have a computer that could power multitracking software in my first few years on the internet. I made the mistake with updating my operating system from ME to XP on top of that.
But I see a lot of people, along with a lot of young people, that don't even have a home. Wild on the streets.
There is not the foundation there once was.
That makes things all the more scary with the recent virus.

I have always tried to use social distancing, although I don't wear a mask.
I wash my hands every time I touch something or get home.
Money is the most dirty.
I ordered a pizza for curb side takeout the other day. They requested a card.


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#1163384 - 04/19/20 10:17 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Everett, can't speak to the article you read but if you understood it as you do, either you or the author is wrong. Excluded are all customer deposits like chequing and savings accounts, term deposits, GICs, secured bonds issued by the bank, certain financial contracts and what are called structured notes. If you invest your RRSP with a bank, you have come across these structured notes. Their return ( "interest" ) is linked to an underlying basket of assets, like say the stock index or a "basket of shares" in say the health or real estate sectors or precious metals etc. Normally the principal is guaranteed and the return is capped at a few points above their then current interest rates..

Personally never liked them for various reasons but banks pushed them because they were extremely profitable for them and useful. That is why they were pushed on to investors by bank's internal staff, and financial advisors who were paid handsomely for steering a client to the bank.

WRT our public debt. Our total public debt to gdp ratio (the most common way to measure it since it speaks to the country's ability to pay) was about 53%...which is pretty decent. Now having said that, I am not a big fan of willy nilly ideology based public spending but if based on practical needs and practical plans and comes with accountability it's fine by me.

And "kicking the can down the road" is not in itself a bad thing. Every generation inherits their country from their ancestors and enjoys the infrastructure and "state of being" that comes with it. I have absolutely no issue with them bearing some of the cost. Now if that debt came from programs with no lasting benefit, and benefits ONLY the current generation, that is another calculus entirely.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1163387 - 04/19/20 11:57 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Public debt is a weird thing. The US owes gazillions to China, but paradoxically that gives the US some power. China can't really get tough and call in the debt in any kind of aggressive way because that would tank the value of the US assets that they hold in the form of bonds.

One of the things that cripples young people financially is college debt, and it does it in a way that's a bit similar to what Everett says about credit cards. Making college loans easily available is well-intentioned, but it distorts the market. Colleges see that students have access to money through these loans and keep hiking their fees up to take advantage of it. The student is then stuck with paying off a bill that is twice or three times what it should be over many years. It's not always this way - my kids went to great public universities in North Carolina, and the fees were reasonable - but a whole lot of people are stuck with going to expensive private universities, sometimes because that's the only place that will accept them. It's doubtful whether some of these people should even be going to college, but it's touted as the only way to earn a decent living. It's not. People who learn an honest trade that's in demand can do better than many with a fancy degree. Right now (well, before the current mess), where I live, a kid can go to the community college, qualify as a welder and soon be earning six figures. Our education system is long overdue a major shake-up.

Oh, and don't get me started on the $100 textbook racket LOL.

#1163435 - 04/20/20 07:10 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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#1163462 - 04/20/20 07:29 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Hi Everett:

My sympathy to the people of Nova Scotia as they struggle to understand the "lack of reasoning" behind this needless and senseless attack in such a beautiful and innocent place. I did not have time to use the links you posted but began to make a little headway on my several ailments this afternoon. Life is short and so precious... we must do what we can to make this a better world. I can't wait until virus testing becomes widely available and streamlined so we can discover whether or not we, our families and our friends have been infected.

Staying indoors and keeping safe distances from friends and loved-ones is so foreign to our very nature as caring humans. I pray this pandemic will end soon... so I can begin to feel better and squander my kid's inheritance... LOL! The saver wants to be a spender... but within reason!

Be well, my friend. ----Dave

#1164742 - 05/28/20 02:02 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I still have my janitors job and am considered an essential worker. There are not the heads at the accounts and have lost some hours and accounts. The plasma center that I worked at wants who is hired from the company, not independent cleaning companies anymore. We had mostly compliments. But that with the company seemed the first big shift with the covid virus from what was looked at as hysteria.


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#1164747 - 05/28/20 02:49 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I feel compelled to add that there are states like Florida that have not locked down places that have the lowest rate of covid viruses that have selective quarantine. And also have the lowest rate of seniors with the virus. Most of the summer events that attract tourists where I live have been canceled. And there is talk about being a big new wave of the covet virus coming. How many more could suffer of the fear of the virus instead of the virus?
I know people that have serious medical conditions to where their appointments were cancelled. How much should a medical issue have to become life threatening, along with shutting down the economy to pay the bills?
Worse yet, it was not the small, stuggling businesses that were aided from the stimulus.


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#1164758 - 05/28/20 10:30 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Eh, Well,
I am a saver most and for most. Early in my life I tried to save as much as possible. Still am. Nobody told me, I just did it. A long time ago I bought a $10,000.00 Life Insurance Policy thinking I would be in pretty good shape when it came time to retire! Well with ten thousand dollars and perhaps another 15 thousand you can buy a pretty good car! Thanks mostly to my wife and my prodding we are in pretty good shape today. I have read that nearly 80 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.
Of which reminds me of that old saying, Save something for a rainy Day. From what I can see, a lot of people make no provisions for their Welfare beyond the end of their nose!
I understand during WW2 people raised Victory Gardens. Today it appears they all run to a Food Bank for Staples.

I understand my father Circa 1871 who had a farm gave away food during the depression of the 30's. I say be Frugal and save for that rainy day, of which may show up anytime.


Ray E. Strode
#1164765 - 05/28/20 12:10 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well if you make 50k a year, your basicly living paycheck to paycheck, in these times. If you make 25k a year your living in poverty. Depending where you live. New Jersey one of the most expensive states to live, and of course New York....as Lou Reed put it in his NINETIES...song, Dirty Boulevard...

"this room costs 2,000 dollars a month,
you can believe it man it's true...
somewhere a landlord is laughing till he wets his pants".

Chit today that be 3 thousand

Many are one disaster away from bankrupt

RAY, times are different, you can't survive on one salary if your married, any more. The only people who have saved anything are people who lived with their parents long enough to save well. But what if your parents live in an apartment themselves, they got nothing and neither do you.

I wasted a lot of money in my twenties, I didn't know what I was doing with things that you really need to know what your doing in.

But I know some really frugal mutha fackers lol.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/28/20 12:19 PM.
#1164766 - 05/28/20 12:58 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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The following list comes from an article I wrote about 5 years ago. It actually ends it. The first part starts with the idea of Retine Quod Habes, the power of systemic saving and compound interest and is summarizes as follows

John B Voorpostel CPA, CA

To drive this point home, investing that first $10,000 at 5% for 30 years grows it to just under $45,000, earning you about $35,000, while saving $10,000 per year at 5% grows to about $740,000 in 30 years, earning you about $440,000.

You can readily see that systemic saving is the key to wealth accumulation so you must have oversight over your finances and the discipline to save the annual amount you put away first.

It also means don't worry about keeping up with the Jones or others with big houses, fancy cars, exotic trips, etc, that they want right now. Especially if the lifestyle is financed because incurring debt costs money, and financing anything means you'll pay far more over time than if you pay cash today. It's the flip side where the magic of compounding works for the lender and against the borrower.

Given the math of save systematically works, and the discipline required to not spend it for 30 years does not come easy, let me advance some guidelines and tips on how you can get there.

Here's what I think can work:

1. Live below your means. Way below if you can.

2. Save your money according to your planned schedule . This follows naturally from #1, but it is so crucial that it needs to be emphasized. Invest it conservatively and always consider after tax returns. In this day and age, capital gains and eligible dividends are treated most favourably for tax. Canadians should have Tax Free Savings Accounts, RRSPs, and RESPs if you are saving for a child's education. And NEVER automatically believe what banks and other financial institutions say about what you need. They ONLY care about getting their hands on your money, and if they can, they'll convince you to invest it in something that works best for them.

3. Focus on building your personal capabilities and reputation so that you can earn more. This makes points 1 and 2 much easier.

4. Make sure you marry someone with the same frugal attitude as yourself. This results in easy decisions, builds trust, avoids stress, and this may seem counter intuitive, but allows each to spend freely without looking over each other's shoulder to see where the money is going. Set a limit to what you and your spouse can spend, and on what, without consulting the other.

5. Avoid all debt except debt that builds wealth. So a mortgage to buy a home, or debt to finance some other safe investment is fine, but do pay it off as quickly as possible. They key is to avoid, minimize, and if you have them, eliminate fixed monthly obligations.

6. Don't become house poor by buying more house than you really need. This follows from point 1, and makes point 2 easier, because it means lower mortgage payments, property taxes, maintenance, insurance, utilities etc. Do not be misled by agents and brokers into buying bigger because home gains are tax free, real estate is a 'can't miss investment", or because interest rates are so low you can afford the mortgage. The most important "number" is easy affordability with lots of room available to meet all your other goals.

7. Never think that anyone who provides you with any good or service is in it for your benefit, especially when they approach you. EVERY business wants your money, and as much of it as they can have, so when a business comes to you with an unsolicited offer, they'll likely say whatever they think it takes to get it. Mostly, they prey on your fear, greed, or guilt, but they twist it in terms of why you are better off than before, and why you should deal with them. The reality is, no matter what they say, in the end they only care about themselves. So rely on points 1 and 2 and say no to all unsolicited offers, and when you do spend your hard earned money, do it on your terms and look for reputable businesses who provide you with true value.

8. Which takes us to point 8. When you do spend, make sure you know why, and how it all fits in to your overall life and family plan. If it's about acquisitions, it's about how can you best get good value for your money. Be careful not to fall prey to your vanities and superficial wants. For larger purchases, always look at at least three alternatives. And it is often better to spend a bit more on quality and reputation, so that it lasts longer, costs less to maintain, and is well supported by manufacturers and retailers. And avoid fads. Think about how attractive something may be in say 5 to 10 years.

9.Point 7 also leads to buying a car when you don't have to so that you can shop without pressure. while point 8 provides some guidance as to when in time you do. Unless there is some compelling reason, buy used, from a reputable dealer or intermediary, and get the best quality small car you can without any fancy features. You'll save on initial cost, gas, insurance, and maintenance. Save even more by only using it when you have to. Instead, walk, cycle, use public transit, or share a ride. A car is only transportation.

10.Free financial planning or advice that is advertised is never ever free. Only deal with objective, independent, knowledgeable, reputable advisors who are experienced in the areas you use them for. They will cost you money, but you'll know exactly what you are paying and what for. And don't focus as much on the hourly rate as the total bill and what you get for it. When you do pay, make sure you learn as much as you can from it.

So there you have it. In a nutshell, increase your capabilities and earning power, and Retine Quod Habes.


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1164771 - 05/28/20 03:27 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I have a friend who is a financial advisor. Hed probably agree with you, very conservative, works in risk management.

But it requires discipline at a very young age, when you think you are invincible

School is the same, most at that age don't see themselves in ten years.

An extended stay in a hospital can wipe people out, so can outrageous drug prices.

Plus so many plan for retirement and don't make it there.

The hardest part is that first bunch of money. Trump got a paltry million dollar loan from his dad....

A lot of it depends what your starting point is



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/28/20 04:52 PM.
#1164791 - 05/29/20 07:45 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John V, some great advice there. I blame our school system that never teaches a class in money management. Credit card companies can't wait to put cards in the hands of kids as young as they can. Get them into the habit of spending money they don't have so what ever they purchase will cost them more than double what they paid for it in interest charges. Credit cards can be good if you can pay the bill when it comes due, but most just pay the interest in the 20% range.

I was young once and when it came to money, I believe I was wise beyond my years. I never picked up the smoking habit and I soon learned drinking was like pissing money down the drain. The biggest problem with the younger people today is PRIDE. They get a job, maybe a well paying job, and they want to let the world know that they are doing well, so when they buy a car it has to be brand new and expensive, wear designer clothes, party it up, go on expensive vacations, not just once a year, but several times a year. When they buy a house, that too has to be amongst the best, just as long as they can make the payment along with the other payments. Then when an emergency comes along, they have no money in the bank to pay for it. Heaven forbid they lose their job, they have to hit the credit card just to buy groceries. I've seen kids fresh out of school get a well paying job in construction or the oil business, first thing they do is buy a 50 or 60 thousand dollar pickup truck to show off. Then they get laid off because of a slow down in the economy, now the payments are out of reach, they have to take a loss to get rid of the truck before it is re-possesses, which would hurt their credit rating. Wisdom doesn't always come with being well educated. I never had a well paying job in my life but I managed with what I had, I saved when I could and I paid cash for larger purchases, thus staying away from paying interest. If I had money in a bank paying me 2% interest, why purchase something that was going to charge me 5% interest if I could pay cash for it. The 2% interest I was earning was going to be taxed at a minimum 15% but the interest I saved cost me no tax. And one time if you were paying cash you could get a cash discount, not so much any more. Buying a car now with no interest means they have already built the interest into the price of the car. I use to buy new cars when prices were reasonable but the prices have gone beyond reasonable, so now I look for good used cars, even those are priced too high.

I own everything I own, even my home. It may not be as fancy as many homes out there, but it keeps me warm and dry. I refrain from remodeling my home every ten years or so just to keep up with the latest styles. That is a pit many people fall into but it keeps building supply stores happy. It would be better to put that extra money on your mortgage and save some interest cost. I pay off my credit card bill every month before interest kicks in. Credit cards are good when used correctly. If you see a good deal that will save you money down the road, put it on the credit card if you don't have cash on you, most people don't carry much cash these days but they do carry their credit card or bank card. Clothes is another way to waste money, keeping up with the latest trend, some clothes get worn once or twice and then dumped because it is out of style. PRIDE kicks in. I could care less if I still wear last years style shirt, when it is worn out I will buy more and pay cash for it.

#1164794 - 05/29/20 11:00 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well Bugsy,
If you live in one of those High Rent Districts just remember, you voted for it. What made this country great was people getting up and going to work, not a never ending glut of Social Welfare Programs. So what do we have today never ending welfare programs! Happy landings!


Ray E. Strode
#1164795 - 05/29/20 11:40 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Can t get over the depth of your genius Ray. You are the ONLY one who know I had the user name bugsey.....

No, I didn't vote for nothing. I was born in the bronx, moved to Jersey when I was 5, went to school, ha d my first beer, got laid for the first time in jersey... My roots are here.

My folks bought our house in the early 70's for 20 k. That was astonishingly cheap, and the likes of that will never be seen wgain.

You live in Georgia, one of the cheapest to live in, it's no surprise I need to tell you that many across the country, hard working people, have trouble making ends meet. Old people like you have no clue what it costs to live.

There is no doubt nj is expensive, at least top 10 expensive in the xointry. Car insurance is rediculous, rent is redicoulus. But we border New York city, what would you expect?

50 grand a year seems like a nice salary, its livable, but by no means does it secure any body. You might be able to save maybe 5 or 10 k a year, then your car transmission goes, you need new tires, daughter gets married, you need a ridiculous expensive drug that insurance only covers a portion.

Old people who haven't been out in the world in 25 years are clueless to how much it costs to live these days.

If houses were 20 grand or even today's equivalent of that life would be nice wouldn't it?

I haven't gotten social security like you ray. If somebody makes 50 grand a year and that's not security, not sure what all this free loader stuff is about.

You know who suffers the most? Middle class...there are programs that help low income people and tax breaks for rich people and nothing for the middle.

If as u say 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck, that doesn't make them freeloaders, that makes them born at the wrong time.




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/29/20 11:46 AM.
#1164798 - 05/29/20 01:52 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Alll, or most of those blue states who mis-managed their budgets for years are now begging the tax payers in other states to bail them out. Gee, it reminds me of that old saying, Beggers can't be choosers.
"Madam" Piss Ant has a 3 Trillion dollar bill passed by the house that funds every thing under the sun including giving illegal aliens taxpayer handouts. I don't know of course but maybe people will learn how to work again, instead of depending on government Handouts, Eh, Bugsy?


Ray E. Strode
#1164800 - 05/29/20 03:50 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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As a general rule, "blue states" subsidize the red ones year in year out by paying more to the Federal government than they get back. Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and Illinois are the biggest "donor states." Taxpayers in those states are subsidizing you, Ray. Say, thanks smile

Illegal aliens can't get handouts under the act unless they pay taxes. It's a tax credit which the IRS calculates based on your tax return. Not many pay federal taxes. Not many earn enough that would have to if they were legal. Many of them pay social security which is automatically deducted from their wages when they use fake social security numbers. Historically, the government has let this continue as it has contributed billions of dollars to the social security fund which they can never get back. Probably not so much now that the lax verification of employment eligibility has been tightened up quite a lot. Still, you should probably say thanks to those folks who helped subsidize your social security.

#1164803 - 05/29/20 06:08 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Yup. New York pays 30+ billion a year seems in subsidies.

Personally I don't care if hard working illegal aliens get help, they take jobs nobody wants and so long as they don't commit crimes and don't bother anyone... I don't care.....with one caveat. They shoudnt get priority over citizens. Citizens should get their money first, go to school first...etc

I just don't get rays rationale. His view on every topic is welfare and people wanting handouts.

Hasn't changed under Trump and likely wont. And trump WILL sign a new stimulus and more money will go out. And the likes of Ray stuff it in his barn front wells fargo bank account, and not spend it like it's supposed to be for....stimulating the economy.

Meanwhile I won't get one. And Ray will prolly live to be 110 collecting social security longer than the time he worked

And by the time I get there they will have cut into it and it won't be worth anything

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/29/20 06:10 PM.
#1164804 - 05/29/20 06:24 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Collecting Social Security, even if you live to 110, is nothing to be ashamed of. It was an insurance forced on us. Like all insurances, some will benefit more than others. If the scheming politicians would have kept their slimy fingers off it, today's taxpayers wouldn't feel that we're getting an entitlement - and there would be enough for them when they retire.

I know I'm going to be sorry for joining this thread.

John. smile

#1164805 - 05/29/20 07:29 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I didn't say social security was shameful. Or !living till 110 But if you live longer than you worked, where is that money coming from? Somebody else

It's socialism.

And really 1200 stimulus for somebody in Arkansas goes a lot further than somebody in ny.....If fair was fair it should reflect cost of living....But socialism is involved.

And republicans handed it all out

#1164809 - 05/29/20 08:59 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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So, if you purchase health insurance, and benefit more than what you're paying in premiums, then the money's coming from somebody else. That's how insurance works. Unfortunately, the people in charge of these funds have no scruples.

John

#1164811 - 05/29/20 09:11 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Yes and to be made to have insurance and health, but you never use it, are the people collecting getting handouts?

For example if you pay 300 a month for health insurance for 20 years you paid 72000 and never used it. Somebody else pays 300 a m month for one year and needs three surgeries costing over 500 grand, is this guy getting a handout?

Social security you pay percentage of what you make, which might be much less than somebody else, but the full amount can still be had for people who made less. And one employee may not have worked nearly as hard for his money, but they both get the same amount

No matter how you slice it, it's not capitalism, and every man for himself, it's very much ....were all in this together. Free health care would be another domain.

Anyway the point of this silly thread is Ray says the same thing about every topic, somehow it all comes back to welfare and handouts.




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/29/20 09:15 PM.
#1164812 - 05/29/20 09:50 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well,
Lessee Gavin,
I believe, and I could be wrong, that people in so called Blue States pay the same percentage in taxes as they do in so called Red States, so your statement about people in blue states subsidizing people in red states doesn't exactly wash.

However let's go back a few decades and see how history records economics.
Probably after the second World War when things started to look up again people would go to work for a company, probably with Union representation, work there all their lives. When the retired they had a 3 prong retirement fund. The company gave them a small retirement, they had a payroll savings plan and Social Security. Perhaps they weren't rich but they had a pretty good retirement.

However Gavin, the people got greedy! They thought the company was making really good money and they wanted more of it!
So they went on strike. Companies tried to comply but it was never enough! And on top of that they sent representives to congress that raised, and raised, and raised taxes. So the Companies were between a rock and a hard place. So they started moving off shore.

However the reps weren't thru. They relaxed the Banking Regulations so everybody and his brother could get a Mortgage, they had no way to pay for. We all know how that worked oud, don't we?

But they weren't thru. Now they decided, in their infinite wisdom to fix the health care system. Today a lot of people are up the creek without a paddle. Gosh I didn't even mention the U.S. Taxpayer is funding the Welfare for the whole world.
So if your economic situation looks a lot like the Democrat Party I'm sorry. Time you learned but will you?


Ray E. Strode
#1164813 - 05/30/20 12:51 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Yes, the tax code and brackets are the same nationally, Ray. I was just referring to this piece of your post:

"All, or most of those blue states who mis-managed their budgets for years are now begging the tax payers in other states to bail them out."

That makes it sound like "blue states" are scrounging off "red states," while, if you choose to look at it this way, the opposite is true. I don't choose to look at it that way - we are all in this together - but if you start throwing rocks, you should realize that you are doing so from inside a glass house.

#1164820 - 05/30/20 09:50 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well,
There is no doubt that Governors in so called blue states are using this pandemic as an excuse to ask for huge bailouts. It reminds us of the old Adage, Never let a good crisis go to waste. Or in other words, You can fool some of the people all of the time and you can fool all of the people people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

However to get to things you can understand Gavin, we have just over a 23 Trillion Dollar Federal debt. Now how did that get that way Gavin? By blue states bailing out red states? I hardly think so Gavin. Two more things, today the unemployment is around 40 million. And when things get back to normal the National Debt will be 33 Trillion and continue to grow because a lot of people take no responsibility for their Welfare beyond the end of their nose! I think the City-State of Rome lasted about 1500 years. I also understand it rotted form the inside out because nobody was minding the store. Think it can't happen here? You better think again. When I was young Gavin, I did farm work of all kinds. Ask those students out of High School to do some manual labor and they will think you are nuts. They are all going to get a government paid student loan and make big bucks, eh, Gavin? Of course this Pandemic has shot that all to hell. Two steps forward and one step back. Eh?
One thing this pandemic is doing is giving people a harsh reality check.


Ray E. Strode
#1164821 - 05/30/20 11:26 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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Ehh well, the Republicans have little regard for this massive national debt. Signed away 3 trillion months ago, 500 billion more for this program, 250 billion for that ine. Governors saying every week " I spoke with the President this afternoon, and i thanked him for this money"

Repubs will prolly sign a new stimulus, making it 6 trillion in a few months. All these handouts, and who do you think is gonna pay for it? ..Ray! yep Ray is gonna cover it all .

See the writing on the wall yet? Get the hint? Republicans have great plans but they want to use Rays money to do it.

Geronimo...write a hit!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/30/20 11:45 AM.
#1164827 - 05/30/20 01:03 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Thanks for putting it into words I can understand, Ray. I appreciate you coming down from Parnassus to wallow in the intellectual mud with us mortals. I think I've got it...

Republican - good, Democrat - bad. These are constants unaffected by events, policies or actions.
Old - virtuous, young - lazy scroungers
Root of all evil - Democrats, kids today, illegal aliens, other countries, Madam Piss Ant

Aah, life is so much simpler now. smile

#1164835 - 05/30/20 01:42 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Eh, Well,
No Gavin, I don't think you've got it. Or you are just playing Possum and can't do anything but smile, like a jackass eating briars. Those cold hard facts are hard to digest eh Gavin. And, I don't make the news, I just report the news.

And just so you know Gavin, the Liberals, Progressives, Democrats and Communists want to run the country but they want the Republicans and Conservatives to pay for it. It has been tried over and over. So far the results are the same. They killed the Goose that laid the Golden Egg. I gave you one example of the people getting greedy and striking for more money. I think Union Representation to day is near 10 percent. So I will chalk it up to those people's intelligence. Usually a 3rd grade education, go to work for a union and strike for more money. Hell it's a lot easier to steal it than work for it Eh, Gavin? Beggars can't be Choosers, or can they Gavin. Sorry Gavin but I've been thru it except I used my brains for something besides a hat rack. Gosh sorry, more to come.


Ray E. Strode
#1164836 - 05/30/20 02:16 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Among all that gibberish, there is one gem, Ray. "Smile like a jackass eating briars." That is a great expression. This thread has been worth it just for that. smile

#1164837 - 05/30/20 02:47 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Ray a doctor gets paid 150 bucks to talk to me for 10 minutes. Stealing? You know how many boxes a ups shipper has to lift to make 150 bucks.

All things are not equal and never will be.

I can play the same song at a bar as Willie Nelson but he makes a lot more than in would for performing it.

Not everybody gets up in the morning to work, not everybody is a blue collar worker waiting for a steam whistle to blow.

Just cause some trading expert makes money by looking at graphs and charts, doesn't make him any less legit as somebody lifting crates. Both jobs are noble, but really what capitalism is supposed to be about is taking talents you have and going to the max with it.

But I think we missed another classic line from RAY , " I use my brains for something more than a hat rack". I

I actually use my intestines for a bit more than a belt holder.....

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/30/20 02:52 PM.
#1164842 - 05/30/20 04:10 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well FD,
Doctors charge a lot because they have to pay for Malpractice Insurance. Another big racket no? Eh, well. Those Cold Hard Facts are out there weather someone brings them up or not. But you keep looking for that Free Lunch. It MUST be out there somewhere.


Ray E. Strode
#1164843 - 05/30/20 04:25 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Actually, there are free lunches all over in New Jersey right now. Food banks, in fact the governors wife was handing them out to people last week, with her mask on.....lol

I don't know what the he'll kind of food it is but it is free. If you want I can pick up some for ya and mail it down to Georgia lol

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 05/30/20 04:26 PM.
#1164847 - 05/30/20 06:47 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John Voorpostel  Offline
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Ray, that most of the very wealthy and close to wealthy people and corporations also suck up lots and lots of public money is something you have never wanted to accept or acknowledge. You and I went at that ad nauseum and you always ignored it...especially big corporations and economic sectors that have strong lobbies

Lots of rural farmers...mostly conservsative people...get paid lots of money in farm subsidies and even money to not grow crops and there are lots of programs that benefit wealthy conservatives.

Add corporations that are wealthy that get paid lots of money by both republicans and democrats...well your argument that only "the left" wants things and wants "the right" to pay is ludicrous, audacious and false at the same time.

The truth of the matter is that EVERYONE is in it for themselves...and the powerful, and wealthy get more for themselves than anyone else simply because they can...they are closer to the levers of power and public trough than anyone else. And because they are large political donors, they get what they ask for.

Then we can also introduce tax cuts. Everyone was promised tax cust by Trump. Who actually did get them??? It was not Joe Average

We can talk about Trump allowing the big wealthy companies that had offshore subsidiaries in tax havens where their profits were not taxed at rates anywhere near the US. Problem was that when they brought their money back into the US it would get hit by taxes. So in comes legislation that lets them bring that money back at a piddling ampount of tax..with the understanding that this money would go to wages and be spent on things. Well how did that go? Share buy backs instead of money going to Joe Average

So don't sit there all smug and say it is only the "left" that want to spend and have the "right" pay. That is several loads of horse apples laced with banana oil and dollops of poppycock.






If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1164850 - 05/30/20 07:34 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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90 dB Offline
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Poppycock, you say? smile


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#1164851 - 05/30/20 08:53 PM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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John V,
When you become a U.S. Citizen then you can flap your jaws about the situation in the U.S. However you, as well as a lot of people have selective vision.
Now for the Record. When Trump got elected he got rid of tons of regulations and cut Taxes. Te Economy took off like a Bat out of Hell and we had full employment until this Pandemic. So much to your dismay the people benefited greatly like it or not.
Yes a lot of people, or most people are in it for themselves.
The large majority of people protesting and rioting because of that atrocity in Minneapolis are using the atrocity to loot and steal.
They could care less about that black man.
Those laws about offshore accounts were passed long before Trump. And as stated before the unions kept striking for more
money and sending reps. (Democrats) to congress who kept raising Corporate Taxes until companies started leaving the country.
This comes under the heading of WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE, WHEN FIRST WE PRACTICE TO DECEIVE.
Oh, by the way, Trump is a whole lot smarter that a lot of people think.
Gosh who said, WE NEED TO PASS THIS BILL SO WE CAN SEE WHAT'S IN IT?

Who relaxed the Banking Regulations so everybody could get a Mortgage they couldn't afford. Who John V ?


Ray E. Strode
#1164859 - 05/31/20 05:29 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: 90 dB]  
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Originally Posted by 90 dB
Poppycock, you say? smile


[Linked Image]



Just our Prime minister showing his feminine or foolish side, the choice is yours. We are so proud, not.

#1164865 - 05/31/20 10:22 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Again you evade the central point Ray.

For the last hundred or so years, both the "left" and "right" raised taxes and added to the deficit. It is decidedly NOT only the "left"

I probably should have just left it at that and not mentioned all those fat cats at the public trough or Trump in all this...except that under this Republican dominated administration, the national debt was going to finish somehwere around 28 trillion dollars....an increase of 8 trillion or 40%...WITHOUT COVID which we cannot really lay at his feet.


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1164866 - 05/31/20 11:00 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John V,
I get the distinct impression you think it is all right for the National/Federal Government to set up and run Social Spending Programs. One thing I have learned over the years, as long as you are giving people handouts they will never improve their station in life. It reminds me of that town somewhere that used to feed the pidgons in the Public Park. It finally came to pass that the town could no longer afford to feed the pidgons. They figured the pidgons knew how to forage for themselves and would do just fine. Then one day the saw the pidgins were dying! They forgot how to forage for themselves! Same with people John.
Back sometime in the 70's maybe during the Johnson Administration they built two huge public housing projects outside on New York City and moved the poor people in. Well John the people literally destroyed the place. They finally had to tear them down. No John, all the Social Spending Programs were put in place by Democrats, and they are all running out of money
After the Stock Crash of 1929 lots of Social Spending Programs were put in place so it wouldn't happen again. Think it's working John? Guess again. By the way John, I don't and never did depend on the Government to bail me out. To answer the question, I, we and my wife and ! scrapped and saved to get where we are. We did it all ourselves. See ya John.


Ray E. Strode
#1164867 - 05/31/20 11:12 AM Re: Are you a spender or a saver [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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90 dB Offline
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90 dB  Offline
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Again you evade the central point Ray.

For the last hundred or so years, both the "left" and "right" raised taxes and added to the deficit. It is decidedly NOT only the "left"

I probably should have just left it at that and not mentioned all those fat cats at the public trough or Trump in all this...except that under this Republican dominated administration, the national debt was going to finish somehwere around 28 trillion dollars....an increase of 8 trillion or 40%...WITHOUT COVID which we cannot really lay at his feet.




Not to worry, folks. Superman is on the way!


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