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#1161043 - 01/26/20 05:36 PM Re: An observation... [Re: JAPOV]  
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John W. Selleck Offline
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Just goes to show, liberals see what they want to see... Problem with liberals is, they keep pushing the limits till there’s no sense of right or wrong. Then the conservatives have to put things back in order while the liberals deny accountability. I miss the days when folks would debate the difference between democrats and republicans... Back when it was hard to tell the difference because both upheld the Constitution...


Constitution? The liberals are trying to rewrite the whole thing into socialism. And yes, they will get some votes from it, from people who love the "Nanny state". "Feed me, clothe me, house me, change my diaper, tell me when to do everything else in my life" is the new mantra. I am so damn sick of it.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161047 - 01/26/20 07:07 PM Re: An observation... [Re: JAPOV]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Just goes to show, liberals see what they want to see... Problem with liberals is, they keep pushing the limits till there’s no sense of right or wrong. Then the conservatives have to put things back in order while the liberals deny accountability. I miss the days when folks would debate the difference between democrats and republicans... Back when it was hard to tell the difference because both upheld the Constitution...


That's just hilarious, Tony. Recent history consists of Republican Presidents screwing up and the adults in the form of a Democratic administration coming in and doing the unpopular job of cleaning up their mess. Then a good bit of the electorate forgets what went before and the cycle repeats itself. That's what happened with George W Bush and the crash of 2008 and it's what will happen again when Trump's debt-fueled binge comes to a screeching halt. The irony is that conservatives' supposed values of fiscal responsibility more closely align with Democratic policies than with Republican ones. It also seems to be Democrats these days that are more concerned with upholding the Constitution, while Republicans rant on about non-existent threats to their right to bear arms or practice their religion - and please nobody try to refute this argument by pointing me to some dubious far right wing or Russian source doing precisely that.

Problem with conservatives is that they like to begin sentences with "Problem with liberals." smile

#1161048 - 01/26/20 09:25 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Gee Gavin,
I am reminded of those fans on that London Stage badmouthing George Bush and the Dixie Chicks echoing that statement. It got back to the Chicks Fans who were huge supporters of George Bush and the people dumped the Chicks CD's and run them over with Bulldozers. The crash of 2008 was caused by the housing mess where the brain dead libs relaxed the housing regulations so anyone that wanted to could take out a mortgage they had no way to pay for. The Liberal News didn't report what was happening and when I heard people were getting loans where they only had to pay the interest on the loan I said, what the hell, how could they ever pay off the loan like that. So a lot of loans got forclosed on and I think they are still cleaning up the mess. You have selective hearing Gavin. The people in Europe don't like the Republicans because of fiscal responsibility. It
has been reported in the News that Europe, (as usual) is on the edge of being broke. I guess the U.S. Taxpayers aren't sending them enough money.


Ray E. Strode
#1161049 - 01/26/20 10:05 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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[Linked Image]


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161050 - 01/26/20 10:09 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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John W. Selleck Offline
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Fiscal responsibility had to go out the window, at least in this term, to fix the mess that the 8 years before had created.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/econ...-obamas-real-economic-record-isnt-pretty


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161051 - 01/26/20 11:34 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Gee Gavin,
I am reminded of those fans on that London Stage badmouthing George Bush and the Dixie Chicks echoing that statement. It got back to the Chicks Fans who were huge supporters of George Bush and the people dumped the Chicks CD's and run them over with Bulldozers. The crash of 2008 was caused by the housing mess where the brain dead libs relaxed the housing regulations so anyone that wanted to could take out a mortgage they had no way to pay for. The Liberal News didn't report what was happening and when I heard people were getting loans where they only had to pay the interest on the loan I said, what the hell, how could they ever pay off the loan like that. So a lot of loans got forclosed on and I think they are still cleaning up the mess. You have selective hearing Gavin. The people in Europe don't like the Republicans because of fiscal responsibility. It
has been reported in the News that Europe, (as usual) is on the edge of being broke. I guess the U.S. Taxpayers aren't sending them enough money.


Actually, Ray, I think you are right about the relaxing of the housing regulations being a contributing factor. One reason I know that is that the "liberal media" reported on it quite extensively. A more important factor was the loosening of the regulations that allowed bundling of mortgage derivatives, and that was certainly something pushed by the Republicans. At any event, Obama was stuck with the mess and, although I disagree with a lot of his policies in other areas, he definitely did a pretty good job of clearing it up.

I don't know what your ramblings about Europe have to do with this or where you get the idea that the US taxpayers are sending them money. They certainly do have their challenges though.

#1161052 - 01/26/20 11:49 PM Re: An observation... [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by John W. Selleck
Fiscal responsibility had to go out the window, at least in this term, to fix the mess that the 8 years before had created.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/econ...-obamas-real-economic-record-isnt-pretty

That's an interesting article, John. Having said that I don't see how you can think that fiscal responsibility had to go out of the window when this administration inherited a strong economy. That's when you pay down the debts you ran up by borrowing to support the economy when it was weak. It's not when you slash taxes, mostly for the wealthiest, and balloon the debt unnecessarily. Juicing the economy certainly has short term benefits, but someone is going to have to pay the bill and it will be harder to borrow when there's a downturn and it's actually needed. I sound more conservative than you LOL.

#1161053 - 01/27/20 12:12 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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John W. Selleck Offline
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John W. Selleck  Offline
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Juicing the economy is what is bringing the jobs back, jobs that Obama said were never coming back. You need jobs for a strong economy and you need to fix the horrific trade deals and the fact that America is paying for most of the United Nations/NATO, and so many other things around the world. We can also boost the economy by getting rid of the freeloaders and other drains on jobs and programs, like all the illegals.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161055 - 01/27/20 08:09 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Jobs are good, lower unemployment is good, higher GDP and stock market is good!

BUT -- you seem to think there has been a huge turnaround under trump and he is orchestrating some economic miracle. He is just building on what Obama did. Don't believe me, look at the numbers:

[Linked Image]


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161057 - 01/27/20 10:05 AM Re: An observation... [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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And the GDP and deficits.

[Linked Image]


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161058 - 01/27/20 10:05 AM Re: An observation... [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Martin Lide  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Jobs are good, lower unemployment is good, higher GDP and stock market is good!

BUT -- you seem to think there has been a huge turnaround under trump and he is orchestrating some economic miracle. He is just building on what Obama did. Don't believe me, look at the numbers:

[Linked Image]



One has to wonder?...Why didn't Obama build on what Obama did and steal this thunder to install Hillary?
Answer:
because democrat policies of taxation and regulation would not allow a democrat president to do that. It took a republican president to cast those aside and stimulate things.

Conclusion: Obama did a good job of doing what the FED told him to do, in order to keep the country from going under. But it was the FED pumping, not Obama that sustained the economy.
The FED's ability to print massive money and play games with accounting was the only force in existence that could keep the economy afloat. Obama was convinced that interest rates had to be kept low and so did the GDP,,,and that taxes could not be cut,, in order to keep everything under control. Obama presided over a zombie GDP. "The new normal."

Trump came along and slammed the accelerator. Now it remains to be seen if there is going to be a nasty price to ultimately pay for that or if Trump can sustain "good times." If jobs stay good between now and the election, Trump will likely get a 4 more years to prove whether or not he has over-juiced the economy or not.

In the offing is an ever-growing national debt that will be a serious and oppressive burden one day and will not somehow fix itself.

At the moment, I cant help but wonder if a metaphor would be standing on the beach and enjoying a lovely day in Tampa while a Hurricane is out in the gulf moving towards Tampa.,
We will see.

#1161063 - 01/27/20 10:25 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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I can't answer your questions very well, Martin -- I am not an economist or a political scientist.

I do think the only person that had lower approval ratings than trump was -- Hillary. Trump did a very effective job painting Hillary as a crook and a dishonest person, so he won.

Unfortunately, the FED is still pumping: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-a-mess-what-s-the-repo-market-quicktake


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161065 - 01/27/20 10:55 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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OK,
One thing. If Obama's economy was so good, why didn't they elect Hillary? As stated, I didn't know about the relaxing of the banking regulations until much later when I heard people were getting mortgages and only had to pay the interest at least for a while on the loans. Chris Dodd, senator from CT. and Barney Frank were supposedly proponents of the relaxed banking regulations. When that happened the people who took out the mortgages charged the lending institutions like a gaggle of hogs charging a trough full of slop. And Obama Care. The employer mandate of which required employers who had over a certain amount of employees to provide health insurance. Many small businesses who operated on a "shoestring" couldn't provide the insurance so many employees were let go.

Well Kevin, Hillary and her minions pulled every dirty trick in the book to keep Trump from being elected. And now they are pulling every dirty trick in the book to get him out of office early or keep him from being re-elected.
Withe the unemployment at all time lows and the economy humming along at a nice pace and Trump still drawing huge crouds at his ralleys he looks good for re-election.

People were slammed over the last 10 years and are now just catching up economiclly. Thanks to the housing mess and Obama Care.


Ray E. Strode
#1161066 - 01/27/20 11:10 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Back in the good old days ignorance could be fought and minds changed by using facts. Today, the facts are made up and presented as truth. The lowest unemployment rates were in the 40's and 50's and then '68 and '69. Why do folks say that today's rates are the lowest ever? -- because trump keeps saying it! I am not disputing the "fact" that a 3.5% unemployment rate is fantastic and in 2000's, the best ever. It is just not the best of all time.

Are you now saying that the mortgage crises was Obama's and the democrats' fault? I think that the mortgage crises was caused by unbridled greed where the banking and investment sector found the magic way to print their own money. When it all collapsed, the government and little people were caught holding the bag, while the top bank executives and the investment clan rode off with their billions into the sunset. Then they came back when they realized the government was going to shower them with billions more to fix the problems they created.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161067 - 01/27/20 11:45 AM Re: An observation... [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Martin Lide  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
I can't answer your questions very well, Martin -- I am not an economist or a political scientist.

I do think the only person that had lower approval ratings than trump was -- Hillary. Trump did a very effective job painting Hillary as a crook and a dishonest person, so he won.

Unfortunately, the FED is still pumping: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-a-mess-what-s-the-repo-market-quicktake


The fed is still pumping.
Trump is presiding over large deficits to get what he wants.
The republicans are quiet about the deficits and debt after years of screaming about it under Obama.
The Wall Street guys are still getting very rich using risky investment vehicles.

No politician of any party ever really stops them, so we wait and see what happens.

#1161068 - 01/27/20 12:10 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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I'm done on this thread after this.. lifts leg, passes gas.

But seriously, it all depends who you believe, who you ask, and what kind of political/entertainment programming you buy into.

Nobody here is going to change their mind.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/27/20 12:11 PM.
#1161069 - 01/27/20 12:14 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Martin Lide  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I'm done on this thread after this.. lifts leg, passes gas.

But seriously, it all depends who you believe, who you ask, and what kind of political/entertainment programming you buy into.

Nobody here is going to change their mind.


There is an underlying reality to it. It is not just who you want to believe.
Dont listen to the politicians. Watch the bond markets and the stock markets and the housing markets.
Look for where the big money goes because it takes things with it.

#1161071 - 01/27/20 12:30 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Aw, Humm, Well,
Nobody forced those people that didn't have a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out to take out mortgages they had no way of paying for. Greed you say? Now who was greedy, Wall Street or the people taking out all those mortgages? Bernie and his pals blame Wall Street for the housing mess, but we know where the blame really lies, don't we Kevin. I seem to remember the lending Institutions being forced to make those loans or else. One lending Institution I don't remember which one went bankrupt and lost about 6 billion dollars.

Well, lessee. Those billions or trillions of dollars are because of all the Social Programs put in place by the Brain Dead Libs. With the Dems in charge Fiscal Responsibility went out the window.
The Democrats had the Congress for 40 straight years, so why isn't everything fixed by now? What happened? As of now, we are heading right back to the 30's. Trump is trying but draining the Swamp is damn near impossible. Have you looked at the National Debt Clock lately?


Ray E. Strode
#1161075 - 01/27/20 01:09 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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Three things painted Hillary as dishonest.in 2016:

1. Collapsing in seventy degree heat, being thrown in a van like a bag of mulch, then blaming it on "dehydration ". It came out she had pneumonia. The woman can't ride an escalator without assistance.

2. Deleting tens of thousands of emails, then destroying phones and iPads with hammers.

3. Her entire corrupt life. For Chrissake, "feminist " Hillary was a close associate of two Sex Luthors, not including her degenerate husband.

Trump made her look bad?

HAHAHA!!!


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1161077 - 01/27/20 01:42 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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What a thread... to paraphrase Einstein, insanity is doing the same over and over again and expecting a different result.

#1161081 - 01/27/20 03:27 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
What a thread... to paraphrase Einstein, insanity is doing the same over and over again and expecting a different result.



Thanks for providing both the quote and the proof. wink

#1161082 - 01/27/20 03:35 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
What a thread... to paraphrase Einstein, insanity is doing the same over and over again and expecting a different result.



Thanks for providing both the quote and the proof. wink


Proof? Have you seen Couchgrouch or Japov or John change their mind, Have you seen Kevin or Gavin change their mind?

Exactly how much proof do you need that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

I could go insane, expecting it, as could you. Do you understand better now? Do you have sufficient proof now Professor?

Not yet ? Ok Ill be back in a few weeks, and see how far all have come to changing their minds.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/27/20 03:41 PM.
#1161083 - 01/27/20 03:50 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Proof? Have you seen Couchgrouch or Japov or John change their mind, Have you seen Kevin or Gavin change their mind?


My goal was not to change couch's, japov's, john's or Ray's minds -- I never thought that possible. However if someone else stumbles into the thread, they can see one side using facts and the other side using … well I don't what they are using except for over-generalizations (mixed in with personal attacks) with nothing concrete to back up it up. Feelings don't make a persuasive argument.

But, yeah, if I was trying to change their minds, it would all be a big waste of time.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161084 - 01/27/20 04:04 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Proof? Have you seen Couchgrouch or Japov or John change their mind, Have you seen Kevin or Gavin change their mind?


My goal was not to change couch's, japov's, john's or Ray's minds -- I never thought that possible. However if someone else stumbles into the thread, they can see one side using facts and the other side using … well I don't what they are using except for over-generalizations (mixed in with personal attacks) with nothing concrete to back up it up. Feelings don't make a persuasive argument.

But, yeah, if I was trying to change their minds, it would all be a big waste of time.


Political discussions always lead to personal attacks, because people are so passionate about it. They feel insulted or hurt if you disagree with them. If you feel strongly about something, you think you are right.

I dont know why we like to discuss when there is no chance of changing the views. I guess we like fighting.

#1161085 - 01/27/20 04:28 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Proof? Have you seen Couchgrouch or Japov or John change their mind, Have you seen Kevin or Gavin change their mind?


My goal was not to change couch's, japov's, john's or Ray's minds -- I never thought that possible. However if someone else stumbles into the thread, they can see one side using facts and the other side using … well I don't what they are using except for over-generalizations (mixed in with personal attacks) with nothing concrete to back up it up. Feelings don't make a persuasive argument.

But, yeah, if I was trying to change their minds, it would all be a big waste of time.


Political discussions always lead to personal attacks, because people are so passionate about it. They feel insulted or hurt if you disagree with them. If you feel strongly about something, you think you are right.

I dont know why we like to discuss when there is no chance of changing the views. I guess we like fighting.





I think the cartoon that Kevin posted says it best smile

#1161087 - 01/27/20 05:02 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Proof? Have you seen Couchgrouch or Japov or John change their mind, Have you seen Kevin or Gavin change their mind?


My goal was not to change couch's, japov's, john's or Ray's minds -- I never thought that possible. However if someone else stumbles into the thread, they can see one side using facts and the other side using … well I don't what they are using except for over-generalizations (mixed in with personal attacks) with nothing concrete to back up it up. Feelings don't make a persuasive argument.

But, yeah, if I was trying to change their minds, it would all be a big waste of time.


If we were really using the facts so many Democrats would be in jail it would blow your mind.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161088 - 01/27/20 05:07 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I'm done on this thread after this.. lifts leg, passes gas.

But seriously, it all depends who you believe, who you ask, and what kind of political/entertainment programming you buy into.

Nobody here is going to change their mind.


There is an underlying reality to it. It is not just who you want to believe.
Dont listen to the politicians. Watch the bond markets and the stock markets and the housing markets.
Look for where the big money goes because it takes things with it.


The truth of the matter is Obama was doing it to pump up social welfare programs and Trump is doing it to try to get the country back on track.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161089 - 01/27/20 05:08 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
What a thread... to paraphrase Einstein, insanity is doing the same over and over again and expecting a different result.



Thanks for providing both the quote and the proof. wink


Proof? Have you seen Couchgrouch or Japov or John change their mind, Have you seen Kevin or Gavin change their mind?

Exactly how much proof do you need that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

I could go insane, expecting it, as could you. Do you understand better now? Do you have sufficient proof now Professor?

Not yet ? Ok Ill be back in a few weeks, and see how far all have come to changing their minds.




And thanks once more. wink

#1161091 - 01/27/20 05:43 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Yes, political debates go nowhere. Change someone's political views? It's like life @ death - there is no compromise.

I call it a tie - you're all wrong. laugh

#1161093 - 01/27/20 06:01 PM Re: An observation... [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich

... However if someone else stumbles into the thread, they can see one side using facts and the other side using -- well I don't what they are using except for over-generalizations … with nothing concrete to back up it up. ...


Originally Posted by John W. Selleck

If we were really using the facts so many Democrats would be in jail it would blow your mind.
The truth of the matter is Obama was doing it to pump up social welfare programs and Trump is doing it to try to get the country back on track.


I rest my case. Probably Mr. Schick is right, though.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161094 - 01/27/20 07:05 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Yes, it is very hard to change my mind when I am right. I once had a wife and her 2 daughters argue with me for almost 2 hours that Puerto Rico was a state. They wouldn't give in until I finally got them to look on the computer and they saw how wrong they were. This is kind of like that except, even when we show them the facts, it's kind of like ostrich philosophy; "I can't see it so it isn't there".


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161095 - 01/27/20 07:36 PM Re: An observation... [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Originally Posted by John W. Selleck
Yes, it is very hard to change my mind when I am right. I once had a wife and her 2 daughters argue with me for almost 2 hours that Puerto Rico was a state. They wouldn't give in until I finally got them to look on the computer and they saw how wrong they were. This is kind of like that except, even when we show them the facts, it's kind of like ostrich philosophy; "I can't see it so it isn't there".


Jeez John....That is some extreme dumb-ness you're talking about there. Did those people actually exist or are you being rhetorical?

#1161096 - 01/27/20 07:46 PM Re: An observation... [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John W. Selleck
Yes, it is very hard to change my mind when I am right. I once had a wife and her 2 daughters argue with me for almost 2 hours that Puerto Rico was a state. They wouldn't give in until I finally got them to look on the computer and they saw how wrong they were. This is kind of like that except, even when we show them the facts, it's kind of like ostrich philosophy; "I can't see it so it isn't there".


Jeez John....That is some extreme dumb-ness you're talking about there. Did those people actually exist or are you being rhetorical?


I don't understand it but they're out there. Hilary has done so many criminal things, that anyone can see, and people still say she is pure as the driven snow. All the people involved in getting the FISA warrants have been shown to have lied to get them, and people still hide their heads in the sand.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161097 - 01/27/20 07:52 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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PS,
I have said numerous times that I really don't like Trump as a person. And yes, he has done some shady things, but show me a politition, or a high level successful businessman who hasn't, But I believe, as do so many others, that he is the best of the worst, and that is what so many politicians are, for this country right now.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161099 - 01/27/20 11:50 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Well, nobody is going to change anyone else's mind, so we might as well laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkZMxgPxXU

#1161113 - 01/28/20 10:52 AM Re: An observation... [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Just goes to show, liberals see what they want to see... Problem with liberals is, they keep pushing the limits till there’s no sense of right or wrong. Then the conservatives have to put things back in order while the liberals deny accountability. I miss the days when folks would debate the difference between democrats and republicans... Back when it was hard to tell the difference because both upheld the Constitution...


My point here is that the argument between liberals and conservatives wasn’t always a Democrat vs Republican issue, but those lines have definitely been drawn today. The irony is that our forefathers penned our Constitution and put our government’s checks and balances in place in order to counter precisely what’s happening now. You see, the only way to "reform" America is to destroy the constitution and the Christian ideals that it defends. I tell you the truth, most immigrants that go through the process of entering this country "legally" are now more American than most indigenous liberals... by virtue of the fact that they are taught the definition of "Representative Constitutional Republic".

#1161114 - 01/28/20 11:07 AM Re: An observation... [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
... is to destroy the constitution and the Christian ideals that it defends.


You may find it useful to research the religion of our founding fathers: https://livinghour.org/founding-fathers-religion/ (of course, use your own sources, too). If I am not mistaken, they were deists and/or progressive Christians, sprinkled in with more traditional Christians.

Last edited by Kevin Emmrich; 01/28/20 11:51 AM. Reason: typo

"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161115 - 01/28/20 11:09 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Eh, Well,
I ain't trying to change anybodies minds. I just try to present the facts and you can make up you own mind. And if you vote wrong you may pay for it the rest of your life. I have watched people vote stupid all my life and it will happen more as time goes by.

It is in most people's minds to help people. Nothing wrong with that. But sometimes they need "Tough Love" not pampered. And it isn't easy to dole out tough love many times. But it has to be done from time to time.


Ray E. Strode
#1161117 - 01/28/20 12:31 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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It must be hugely satisfying for liberals to be able to google the opposite of ANYTHING and find other likeminded liberals to tell them what they want to hear...

#1161118 - 01/28/20 12:48 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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To the Officers of the first Brigade of the third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts
October 11. 1798

Gentlemen,
I have received from Major General Hull and Brigadier General Walker your unanimous Address from Lexington, animated with a martial Spirit and expressed with a military Dignity, becoming your Characters and the memorable Plains, in which it was adopted.
While our Country remains untainted with the Principles and manners, which are now producing desolation in so many Parts of the World: while she continues Sincere and incapable of insidious and impious Policy: We shall have the Strongest Reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned Us by Providence. But should the People of America, once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another and towards foreign nations, which assumes the Language of Justice and moderation while it is practicing Iniquity and Extravagance; and displays in the most captivating manner the charming Pictures of Candour frankness & sincerity while it is rioting in rapine and Insolence: this Country will be the most miserable Habitation in the World. Because We have no Government armed with Power capable of contending with human Passions unbridled by morality and Religion. Avarice, Ambition, Revenge or Galantry, would break the strongest Cords of our Constitution as a Whale goes through a Net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

#1161120 - 01/28/20 12:58 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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“We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth, and power. … But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us. (“A National Day of Fasting, Humiliation, and Prayer.” Proclamation March 30, 1863)”

-Abraham Lincoln

Last edited by JAPOV; 01/28/20 12:59 PM.
#1161121 - 01/28/20 01:00 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Uh, Well,
It is a not so well known fact that the Liberals, Progressives, Democrats and Communists want to run the country but they want the Conservatives and Republicans to pay for it. A while back it was reported that General Motors was able to maintain paying all the benefits the workers were getting. Well that didn't work out and GM sold off their parts division as a result. Not sure how all those people are doing today but I think they got a harsh dose of reality. Imagine if you will, at one time people were going to work at the Automobile Unions and starting as 28 dollars an hour. My wife who was a Registered Nurse wasn't making that much money. Trying to take a short cut to success is usually the long way.


Ray E. Strode
#1161123 - 01/28/20 01:39 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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I dont know but id like to see a pay per view fight between Trump and Biden. I mean Trump has already wrestled in the WWE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NsrwH9I9vE

let them battle it out. I dont think the winner will be any different as President. Maybe have Mitch Mcconeel and Schiff be guess referees.

but THAT would be more fun to watch than the debates.

#1161124 - 01/28/20 02:01 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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I've been afraid to go anywhere (Roger Stone is STILL OUT THERE!!), so I've been trapped at home, suffering in self-confinement.

Fortunately, Facebook hasn't deleted any more of my posts (emotional dandelions report me), so they've been seen by some beltway players.

Despite Don Lemon viewing me as an ignorant rube, I've been hired by the Mooch to coordinate the release of his memoirs, slated for release just before the GOP convention.
Depending on the news cycle, it will contain an as yet undetermined explosive revelation about Trump, to be "leaked" just before the book is available for pre-order.

If the book is a best seller, I'm also in talks with Omarosa. Her second book is scheduled for late October.

But that's not all!!

Inspired by Willie Nelson, I've negotiated an H & R Block commercial starring Paul Manafort...

I'm enjoying my new career as a social media influencer...if Hillary calls me a Russian asset, my rep will skyrocket!!!

Last edited by couchgrouch; 01/28/20 02:02 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1161151 - 01/29/20 10:51 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Well,
I can say one thing. I bet Harry and Meghan wonder what the hell happened to this post!


Ray E. Strode
#1161154 - 01/29/20 11:52 AM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Morning, JPF Friends:

I regret I have been logged out during much of this diversion of "Couch's" original thread topic. I have done my best to keep up with the posts and have enjoyed hearing both sides of the "argument." Although I had a Senior Flu Shot back in November, it appears I have encountered an especially virulent strain (hopefully not from WuHan) and feel much like a broken faucet in the "on" position.

As many have said, "Most of us already have our minds made up on the current state of affairs." As a Conservative, it is distressing to me to know how much seeming polarity we have reached in this country.

One comment I recall hearing from one of the news networks (I watch many of them of all stripes, foreign and domestic) a liberal commentator described the Trump supporters as members of the Tea Party on Steroids! LOL!

My advice to each of you, assuming you are legally eligible... Vote as though your future depends upon it.

I'll be back when this oozing mess leaves my frail old body.

All my best, ----Dave

#1161162 - 01/29/20 03:28 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Hi Dave,
Feel better soon, those flu's can be a 5 letter word. What has amazed me has been the virulence shown by so many Democrats after Trump won the election. True, some republicans were a mite upset when Obama won, but we didn't see posters of anyone carrying his severed head around by the hair, dripping blood! If many of the things said about Trump had been said about Obama, every single Republican would have been labeled "Racist"! Oops, we already are by many in that party! I have never hated Obama. I have hated what he was doing to our country, trying to turn it into a socialist.nanny state. But for many democrats, this has become so personal, if they hung Trump on a burning cross you would see crowds cheering across America.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1161163 - 01/29/20 03:59 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Dave,

Get well soon!!


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1161164 - 01/29/20 04:17 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Vicarn Online content
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Hey Dave. I among other locals have caught something lately too. Seems the pond isn't enough of a barrier.
Get well soon.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1161176 - 01/29/20 07:29 PM Re: An observation... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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I think I missed a post here.

Kev, it's not an impeachable offense to withhold aid to a foreign nation. There's no such thing in the Constitution. If there was, you'd cite it verbatim, along with Trump's phone call.

You can't.

Furthermore, the aid was given.

It's not a crime to investigate a criminal, political opponent or not. If it is, cite the statute verbatim along with Trump's transcript.

You can't.

The wholly Democratic Impeachment committee did give "abuse of power " as a reason. The term is vague and hard to define, which is why they settled on it. They've got nothing.

These same people claimed for over two years that Trump colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election. There was no predicating crime there, either. They have zero credibility. They're just sore losers.

Then there's Kavanaugh. Again, the exact same people leveled unsubstantiated accusations against him. They have a history of being complete liars.

Finally, if you believe Trump committed an impeachable offense, please quote the transcript verbatim, along with a citation of the statute he violated.

You can't. No one can. The entire case is as simple as that.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
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