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#1160607 - 01/16/20 01:42 AM Validation, Do You Have It?  
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Hey Guys!

There are a lot of interesting topics on the boards about what makes a great song. Mab and I have been exchanging thoughts on the topic of Songwriting in general, Mab has some really great insights on the Business of Songwriting. So, today I am interested in knowing when a Songwriter finds his/hers personal validation that they have something to offer listeners?
Where does your Validation come from?
For example, for me it was an Aunt that really loved a song I wrote when I was 14yrs old, her response was like "Wow!" her reaction sparked something in me. Although I will agree she is a bit biased in my favor, but nonetheless, her reaction made me feel I was special, that I had a Gift. What are your experiences? Another example might be a Singer who discovers she has the gift of voice, or a Musician who has a gift to play guitar or piano ect... Does your validation come from others reflecting back something you already know about yourself?
Thanks in advance-Dana

Last edited by Dayson; 01/16/20 01:49 AM.
#1160614 - 01/16/20 11:00 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Humm,
Do I have validation on my songs. Well I have been turned down by experts. Does that count?


Ray E. Strode
#1160616 - 01/16/20 11:27 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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I think if people didnt want some sort of validation, they wouldnt be on this forum and wouldnt post anything. Even if they dont write anything or post anything, they want to be heard and understood. Facebook proves that. Nothing proves more that people are seeking validation than facebook. Facebook allows people to talk about their favorite subject, themselves! Most people dont get that nobody cares however.

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound? Likewise, if somebody writes a song and nobody hears it, does it accomplish anything?

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/16/20 11:41 AM.
#1160620 - 01/16/20 12:59 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Hi Ray,

It can, did it mean anything to you? Did you take away anything positive out of it?

#1160621 - 01/16/20 01:03 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Fdemetrio,

I'm not sure I understand your point. Is your point that if no one in a Major position here's your song,then there's no point in writing one?

#1160623 - 01/16/20 01:19 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Originally Posted by Dayson
Fdemetrio,

I'm not sure I understand your point. Is your point that if no one in a Major position here's your song,then there's no point in writing one?


No, if NOBODY hears it at all. Which is why we come here, to be heard.

I dont buy this stuff, "Write for yourself" stuff. I mean if you liken songwriting to bird carving, something you do in your spare time to pass the day, i suppose thats valid. But I dont think Bird Carving and Songwriting are one in the same, songwriting is a form of communication, somebody has to hear it.

But no, Ive been doing it since 8th grade, I never had anybody important hear my work. But I always had SOMEBODY who heard it, thats what I meant.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/16/20 01:20 PM.
#1160625 - 01/16/20 01:40 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Actually I take that back, When I was in my late teens early 20's John Scher, the famed NJ concert Promoter heard a demo of mine, which came about because of a family doctor who had him as a patient. The Doc took the demo and supposedly gave it to him. he writes a little note that says "He would like your candid impression of his music"

I know he heard it, but I never got a call to headline Brendan Byrne Arena(at that time) either

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/16/20 01:40 PM.
#1160626 - 01/16/20 01:41 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Fdemetrio,

Thanks for the clarification. Do you have a notable moment when you shared one of your songs with someone? What was that like?-Dana

#1160628 - 01/16/20 01:53 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Will I be paid for this interview? lol

Many. I wrote a song about a girl...go figure. I was in a band, and the inspiration for the song became an after thought. Nobody questioned who it was about, back then guys were writing songs about women who didnt exist, im like where are all those girls coming from?

But this was a song about admiration from afar. Apparently it was a mutual feeling, but the girl was like a cheerleader amd very outgoing, I kind of hung with my band mates and that was it.

Well we ended up playing for the school, and sure enough we played that song. And the song mentioned her name so immediately everybody questioned. I started getting nervous cause I didnt want the pressure lol

Anyway, I got away with it but it validated me that a song, as bad as it may have been can still make an impact so long as somebody is listening. We became known as a band, when before we were invisible. And I became known as somebody who may end up writing a song about you.

Many times actually. I used to pitch to people in the songwriters market and had alot of people call my house. How important they were wasnt clear.

I worked with a very exceelent producer here in NJ. Who made an absolute masterpiece out of a rough demo I had made. He played everything except guitar, and I sang, he brought me up 1000 notches, and for him to encourage me and tell me I was better than the last guy that walked in made me happy.

Wrote a song for a friend who just lost his dad, his mother was flabbergasted.

But you cant do these things in a big way without an audience.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/16/20 01:56 PM.
#1160634 - 01/16/20 03:09 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Tell me where to send the check! lol

Great story! I really enjoyed reading about it. I think to have a song written about you, no matter who you are is a great honor. I agree, songs have impact, audiences large or small. By reading your story, I recall my first demo:) When I played it for a friend in bar, yes a small bar lol she broke down in tears. I wasn't expecting that, so that song really had an impact on her, I have gone on to play it for others, and it has brought multiple people to tears, so I respect the power of song. Thanks for your input! Check is on the way:)-Cheers!-Dana

#1160637 - 01/16/20 03:49 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Uh, Well,
I have signed a few Publishing Contracts over the years, received at least one request for more songs, none used, and an unsolicited letter from a producer saying I could pitch songs to them anytime. Most likely some validation.


Ray E. Strode
#1160639 - 01/16/20 04:02 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Does co-writing a #1 CMA in the UK count? But I got just as much of a kick out of the DJ playing some of my demos at a big country dance club and having tons of people come up and tell me how much they loved them, or bringing a woman I know to tears listening to one of my Christian country songs. I will never be rich from any of this but that is validation enough for me.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
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#1160642 - 01/16/20 05:19 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Uh, Well,
I have signed a few Publishing Contracts over the years, received at least one request for more songs, none used, and an unsolicited letter from a producer saying I could pitch songs to them anytime. Most likely some validation.


Ray,

Having your songs signed by a Publisher is a big deal for some, that's an accomplishment most of us don't have yet. Congrats!-Dana

Last edited by Dayson; 01/16/20 05:20 PM.
#1160643 - 01/16/20 05:24 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Originally Posted by John W. Selleck
Does co-writing a #1 CMA in the UK count? But I got just as much of a kick out of the DJ playing some of my demos at a big country dance club and having tons of people come up and tell me how much they loved them, or bringing a woman I know to tears listening to one of my Christian country songs. I will never be rich from any of this but that is validation enough for me.


Hi John,

How many of us can say that? That is a great piece of Validation if you ask me. If you are writing songs at that level you can be proud, you never know where your song will end up. Did you ever imagine that you would be a co-writer on a #1 CMA in the UK? You should name the song here so we can all know it. Congrats! Thanks for chiming in.-Dana

Last edited by Dayson; 01/16/20 05:25 PM.
#1160645 - 01/16/20 07:24 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Hi Dana,
I have posted it a few times on here. It hit the charts in 2007 or 2008, #1 in the UK for 2 weeks and top 100 across Europe for 21 weeks. I made a little over $8 for airplay and nothing else because the singer never sent any CD's over for sale there. And yes, the validation was enough, but more money wouldn't have hurt my feelings either.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
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#1160655 - 01/16/20 11:36 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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I have been writing songs since early school years. Learning to play the guitar I didn't know very many songs so I invented my own to help me learn changing chords. When I played in Bands with my friends, they were vehemently opposed to playing originals, covers only.

When I finally got disgusted and went out on my own, I hit up some open mics, one Would let me play 6 songs instead of the regular 3. So developed my song list 6 songs at a time. We had an open mic that recorded and played your performance on local cable access TV. So, a couple of my songs ended up there.

Didn't think much about it. One day I'm in the super market in the bleach aisle trying to get the right kind of bleach for our laundry when a guy came up behind me, leaned over my shoulder and sung one of my songs to me. Peaches and Cream. Floored me. Validation for my efforts to me.

#1160656 - 01/17/20 01:29 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Hi Rick,
Congratulations. It is wonderful when someone appreciates your work, especially enough to learn the words, and recognize you.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
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#1160658 - 01/17/20 02:49 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Rick Heenan]  
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Originally Posted by Rick Heenan
I have been writing songs since early school years. Learning to play the guitar I didn't know very many songs so I invented my own to help me learn changing chords. When I played in Bands with my friends, they were vehemently opposed to playing originals, covers only.

When I finally got disgusted and went out on my own, I hit up some open mics, one Would let me play 6 songs instead of the regular 3. So developed my song list 6 songs at a time. We had an open mic that recorded and played your performance on local cable access TV. So, a couple of my songs ended up there.

Didn't think much about it. One day I'm in the super market in the bleach aisle trying to get the right kind of bleach for our laundry when a guy came up behind me, leaned over my shoulder and sung one of my songs to me. Peaches and Cream. Floored me. Validation for my efforts to me.



Yes! I agree, that must have been an awesome feeling. Just goes to show, you never know who your songs will touch and have impact on. thanks for sharing this.-Dana

#1160659 - 01/17/20 02:51 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Originally Posted by John W. Selleck
Hi Dana,
I have posted it a few times on here. It hit the charts in 2007 or 2008, #1 in the UK for 2 weeks and top 100 across Europe for 21 weeks. I made a little over $8 for airplay and nothing else because the singer never sent any CD's over for sale there. And yes, the validation was enough, but more money wouldn't have hurt my feelings either.


Hey John,

Still a great experience, that few of us have. Foreign royalties always seems like such a hassle. So many hurdles to overcome for collection. Still got bragging right though!:)- Dana

#1160661 - 01/17/20 05:20 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1160663 - 01/17/20 05:56 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Lol it happens! Thanks for the link. This has a fairly upbeat feel to it, rolls along nicely. I was however surprised to hear the 2nd verse, about Cancer, it's such a grim. topic, that I wouldn't expect to hear in a song that made the charts in the UK, But Country is about writing your truth and people responding to it. Great job!-Dana

#1160664 - 01/17/20 08:41 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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I don't know if this is considered validation or not but I had a woman write me and tell me her husband, who was in the hospital dying of cancer, got saved by listening to a CD of my gospel songs and he requested four of the songs to be played at his funeral. It gave me great encouragement to know something I wrote was responsible for a soul finding salvation.

#1160670 - 01/17/20 12:16 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Dana,

Now THIS is a great thread. My biggest beef with writers are so much over the "getting the big hit, the big cut, having the majors into what you do, making money, fame, whatever." That so doesn't happen enough and physcially just can't happen enough to satisfy us. So we have to take our validation in whatever ways we can. This thread and what you are all saying are exactly what I talk about when I say "you have to take your victories. And they are all in ways you are illustrating here.

A frustration with me, is coming here or on other sites and someone says sort of in passing, "Well I had a top ten song in England for 21 weeks, but it didn't pay any money...." I undesrstand how frustrating that is, but you have to realize how RARE any widespread validation is at all. There are BILLIONS of songs floating around there and the vast majority never even gets heard by anyone other than the writer, much less to have any kind of tangible audience or activity at all. Those are all victories.

Personally, I get them a great deal and am grateful for every one. And it is quite often it is NOT anything that I personally did, but some information or process that I passed on, that had been passed on to me, and that goes on to help someone achieve things they might never have otherwise. Having a huge writer or artist tell me "I was about to quit the business and leave town and then I went to a show of yours and you inspired me to hang in town." Or another very notable celebrtity, come grab me by the collar in the middle of a crowd, to pull me over to meet his wife and say "THIS IS THE GUY I TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT KEPT ME HERE! If it hadn't been for him, I would have never met you!"

So that is all validation. The unfortunate thing is that we don't see it most of the time, and it passes us by. But it's amazing how the smallest of things go on to do something wonderful for others. Or for ourselves.

I have had a few like Everett mentions, where songs get people through divorces, loss of loved ones or their own struggles and that is probably the best victory. Congratulations Everett. That is a great testiment just like your works in so many hymnals and churches. I'd say you are probably racking up some big points upstairs.

Here's one of my favorites in that vein. I was in San Diego California, doing workshops and "write up" appointments. These are private teaching lessons like a guitar, piano or voice lesson except on songwriting. They are two hours and the people bring in ideas, lyrics, melodies, senarios, or whatever and those are what we write songs about. Have been lucky enough to do it a few thousand times since 2003 and always enjoy it because the people leave with something they didn't have before but also have learned about writing, themselves, and life in general. And I feel that I LEARN the most.

This one day was a woman named, oddly enough, Faith, and she was probably early 70's. She was a very sweet and classy woman, obviously well dressed and was a joy to be around. Great smile and sense of humor. We laughed a lot that day. As we got into what she wanted to do, it was at the Time American Idol was having a contest for a THEME song for their show. Her title was "i'M IN IT TO WIN", which was something I had heard a bit, but okay, whatever she wanted. As we talked about things to win, she kept scratching her head. Each time she did it, I noticed that her entire hair would move, indicating of course, that she was wearing a wig. No problem, many women do, and I once had hair transplants and had my own experiences with hair, so it was not a big deal.

At one point she said "Sorry, today, my wig is itching." I laughed and said "No problem." Then she says "I'm going through Chemo for Breast Cancer and I wear it for that." I was stopped dead in my tracks and said "THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO WRITE ABOUT!!! NOT A CONTEST! YOU'RE IN IT TO WIN LIFE!!!" And that is what we wrote about. It was a pretty cool song, even using her name, Faith in it. She was very excited and loved the way it turned out. And since it meant so much, I went to the extra step to get to a recording studio out there and lay down a pretty clear guitar vocal version of it so she would have something better than a work tape.

It was a great experience and she would contact me over the next couple of years saying that she played it for her Cancer awareness groups, and various people, and it always seemed to be a great deal for her. That was really cool in itself, but like so many things, we get on to other things and sort of forget about it. But I never forgot her.

One day, about five years after all that and probably two since I heard from her, I get this phone call. It was from her Son, and he called to let me know that she had passed on. But he said that beside her bed was a framed copy of the lyrics and the CD that she used to play at night when she would go to bed and it always would pick her up.

That's a victory.

Thanks for this thread Dana. I hope everyone can chime in with their own stories and it will make all of us think about what it really means to have this drive.

Congratulations all.
MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 01/17/20 12:23 PM.
#1160681 - 01/17/20 04:59 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I don't know if this is considered validation or not but I had a woman write me and tell me her husband, who was in the hospital dying of cancer, got saved by listening to a CD of my gospel songs and he requested four of the songs to be played at his funeral. It gave me great encouragement to know something I wrote was responsible for a soul finding salvation.


Hi Everette,

I'd say that's the greatest validation one can have. This is a great story, Amazing thank you for sharing that:)-Dana

#1160682 - 01/17/20 05:07 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Mab

Thank you for this great story, my heart was breaking and lifting all at the same time. I have had the greatest loss of my life due to Cancer, so I know it's impact, you and Everette, have something to really be proud of. This here is a great reminder that, although we always want more for our songs and to have them impact the widest audience possible, sometimes, Songs are meant just for these specific moments and nothing else, and we should be okay with that. The more I learn about other people's journey, is a reminder that this is true for me and my songs as well. Thanks!-Dana

#1160684 - 01/17/20 05:31 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Marc and Everett,
Thanks for sharing those amazing stories. And yes, they are both validation in the biggest sense.
I never wanted to leave anyone with the idea that I wasn't thrilled to have a #1 hit anywhere in the world. I know not many aspiring songwriters come close to that. It's a funny thing about the UK, especially Ireland Wales and Scotland, they really love country music, especially traditional country. i pitched this one to publishers in Nashville and was told it was "Too country". LOL. But no sour grapes here. I tell anyone that asks, truly, that if I never make another penny from my writing I will always be happy to have done it, and to have shared it with others.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1160689 - 01/17/20 06:37 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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John, oddly enough I wasn't so much talking about you as several other friends of mine, who never seem to stop and smell the roses. Some are even hit writers.
I have this aquaintance I know, who had one song that went to Number one. It recently had it's two millionth play on radio and has made a great deal of money over the years. Yet it was his only cut, and to be honest, if you heard his other songs, you would understand why. His co-writer, who is one of my best friends, and regular performing partner, has had hundreds of cuts, two number one's a Grammy nomination, and is an amazing songwriter, is grateful for everyone, and constantly mentions the co-writer in every show we do with that song.

Yet the other writer, constantly whines about never getting another cut. He complains that he can't get his songs cut. He is constantly complaining pretty much about everything. We get into these little private conversations on Facebook and I always have to kind of slap him and say "Do you know how FEW people can make that claim? Why can't you just appreciate what you have done and don't focus on what you haven't done?"

One of my favorite questions to ask these hit writers are "What was harder, getting that first cut or following it up with another?" They never really know but know that both of them are incredibly hard to do if not nearly impossible.

It's just something we should all keep in mind and be thankful for. In an era that you almost cannot get people to put their cell phone down long enough to listen to ANYTHING ANYONE DOES we're all pretty lucky to do anything anyone pays attention to for any amount of town.

I'm glad you have that experience. Cherish it and work to do it again. And if you don't, no one can take what you've accomplished away from you.
MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 01/17/20 06:37 PM.
#1160693 - 01/17/20 08:19 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Hi Marc,
Thanks for explaining. it was the 21 weeks and the in the UK that got me going. Yes, I would loved to have made more money out of that one, and yes I would love to have more success but if I don't, that is OK too. Once upon a time I had a sit-down with Jason Blume, He looked over some of my lyrics and listened to a couple of my demos. He told me I had talent as a lyricist but I needed to get better demos made, and gave me a few tips on cleaning up my lyrics for publishers. I listened, and the next year I hooked up with Jim Heffernan and had that #1. I really wish I had been able to hang around Nashville longer but I would have missed my mother's last 6 months. And when I got back up to NJ my old employer offered me a sweet deal to stay so I could retire at 62 instead of 65. I don't regret returning to NJ or staying after I did but I will always wonder...


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1160702 - 01/18/20 09:43 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Thanks Marc, Dana and John, appreciate the kind words. There was a song called( Little things mean a lot), so true, little words of kindness, praise and encouragement can mean a lot to people that are down on their luck, discouraged and even suicidal, you may never know how much it means to them. I wrote a song called Precious Mother, locally it became the most requested song on radio. I guess it just said what people felt about their mothers but could not put into words. That is what a song is suppose to do, touch others, say to them or for them what they felt or would like to say but cannot say for what ever reason. Telling people you love them is not always easy to say for some people, but requesting a song to be played for them that says it, makes it easy. We are quick to tell people the negative thoughts we have about them but tend to keep the positive thoughts about them to ourselves. It shouldn't be that way but that is how we are. We are afraid to show our soft side but quick to show our tough side. I wonder if that is why artist prefer to sing up tempo song over ballads, it doesn't expose their vulnerabilities, their soft side, their caring side, especially men, we think being tough is a good trait. Keeping a stiff upper lip is not always a good thing, especially for your health, emotions penned up can be more painful than shedding a few tears.

#1160710 - 01/18/20 10:41 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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"I wonder if that is why artist prefer to sing up tempo song over ballads, it doesn't expose their vulnerabilities, their soft side, their caring side, especially men, we think being tough is a good trait. Keeping a stiff upper lip is not always a good thing, especially for your health, emotions penned up can be more painful than shedding a few tears."

Everett, that could be a part but I tend to not think so. Having been an artist since I was 14, this is one I know pretty well. And it is a big demonstration of the difference approaches between an artist and a writer.

Writers tend to be introverts. They are very emotional, embrace their inner thoughts, wear their feelings on their sleeves and want everyone to FEEL what they are going through. They LIVE to write that huge ballad that everyone sways and sings along to.

An artist is generally an extrovert, at least to the general public, because they have to be. The more outgoing, engaging with their audience, the more money they make, more success they have, the more track record they get. They need the uptempo because that is what the vast vast vast majority of audiences want. They want to dance, party, sweat, be involved in their live shows. They save the big, emotional ballad as the icing on the cake, not the cake. The big giant career songs that singers have are never the first of even second, but usually third or fourth they come out with and only about 2 for 20 that they record. It is also from the demands of the industry. Up tempo sells radio, and radio is the lifeblood. Today, where everyone is so distracted with so many other diversions, cell phones, computers, television, endless input, it is harder and harder to keep attention, and therefore, the more up tempo something is, the easier it is to get and keep attention.

The emotional aspect is part of it in that singers don't want to look foolish or weak. I was told once by a pretty successful artist that he was looking for a power ballad, but it had to be a "STRONG MAN'S BALLAD." That means while showing vunerabilities, it has to have the character remain male. Even with women, you can't make them look weak. Especially now, with the whole "WOKE" woman thing, you have to emphasize woman empowerment. Women will tend to be more emotional, but most women artists today will want to be about suriving and thriving, putting whatever the negatives in their lives are in the rear view mirror.

Again, one of the problems I have with many "amateur writers" (and my only designation of that are people not only that don't make money, but those that approach songwriting and being an artist very haphazardly, with a lot of entitilement and expectations, and ENDLESS EGO) that 90% of songs are the most depressing, whining, morose pieces of hardship. It's like the wallow in depression.
If you listen to hit songs, they almost always celebrate love, or even if it is angsty, they will empahsize the "Survival" aspect. It can either be done lyrically, or with huge sweeping melodic movement. Makes you feel better.

Artists have people come to see them because they are going to leave the audience with a good feeling. Eveyrone can stay home and be depressed simply by looking at life. They rarely go to music for that.

MAB

#1160741 - 01/19/20 08:06 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Good point.

#1160744 - 01/19/20 10:47 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Everett,

I wanted to make an addition to what I was talking about yesterday, which really plays in well to this thread about validation. Generally for male singers and writers there is one main point that is the reason we get into this in the first place:

WOMEN!!!!

When I stepped onstage at 14 years old, having thought I was going to be involved in football and then join the military, to one day try for Special forces, and the women WENT CRAZY, my career path was set from there. I was a mediocre at best athlete, you get hit a lot, and in the military you can get killed, and at the time, the 70's, we were between wars and the Military was not as cool as before, and I was pretty good at music. I also was a very mediocre student, and didn't do drugs, so it put me in my own league. I skated through math classes due to my abilities to act and sing and got put in all the "special programs" at our high school.
So music was a great chance to find my own pathway.

This is pretty common with male singers. We often feel out of place, and in our own world, but most often we just want to get a date! The uptempo, party, dance, get wild songs. are the ones that allow us to do that. Singing in front of dozens, then hundreds and thousands of people, is every singer's dream. Having them all sing along, sway, raise their beers, pump their fists, and have the objects of their attention with them is the whole deal when you are getting going. And if you are playing clubs, dances, concerts, whatever, that is how you get paid, how you get rebooked, what the audience is there for.
And if you advance to record deals, concerts, and fan base, that is what builds it. You have to start and maintain it first. The ballads come after all that.

So the uptempo songs are going to be the one that you need most of all. The ballads can cement a successful career. They are generally the career songs that people get known for. But they only come after the career is in full swing first.


MAB

#1160765 - 01/19/20 03:48 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Hi Marc,
Agreed, isn't that why most men do anything? Of course there is that other reason, applause! From the very first time I stepped on stage in front of an audience, I was a late bloomer at 15, I knew it was where I wanted to be. There is no drug in the world, at least not when I was doing them in the early 60's to the early 70's, that ever gave me the high that audience adulation does. The sound of applause and the shouts, screams, whistles, etc. do something inside you that can't be replicated by anything else.
I do love putting out upbeat songs that make people move, but writing songs that touch people where they live is what makes me write.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
http://www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
#1160779 - 01/20/20 08:50 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Marc, I find it hard to believe that you couldn't get dates, good looking dude and all.LOL Me, I was very shy when I was young, low esteem, so I didn't even try to get girls attention, so I guess that is why I started writing songs, something I could do alone. I was a hockey player, not great but passable, I was all of 145 lbs so I wasn't built to go far into pro hockey, I'm 185 now that it's too late. LOL Songwriting was the only thing I felt I was fairly good at but was too shy to ever sing in public, not being a great singer, as least in my mind. When I got older and some of my party friends got together, they found out that I wrote songs, so they keep at me to sing some of them. Finally, maybe under the influence, I did. They seemed to like my songs, not so sure they liked my singing, but that is what made me think (rightly or wrongly) that maybe I could write some commercial songs. But where I was living, far from music centers, made it next to impossible pitch songs. That was before cassette players were available and I couldn't write music by note, so I couldn't send my songs off to get demos done. I was married with three kids to raise so I couldn't go running off to Nashville, so I put my dream on hold, mostly until I retired, then I hade more time to devote to writing, the internet opened the world up to all kinds of possibilities, but by this time, the music world was changing so that it made it even harder to get noticed. I keep trying but I'm mostly into Christian songs these days and I am having some success there. Even in Gospel music, the competition is tough and it seems the big guys has the inside track to being heard on radio. I won't go there as to why.LOL

#1160781 - 01/20/20 09:49 AM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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As you see, we all share similar stories. The applause is a drug in itself, and that was very much my experience, of course, it was the applause from the women that drove me more than anything.

Everett, I think our memories get a bit slanted over the years. Whenever I see or hear my old crushes in high school and my early days, I am always told many of them had crushes on me, but I didn't remember it quite like that. LOL! Actually, one thing we are all shaped by are PEER GROUPS. And the peer groups that we had, the athletes, the band people, the good students, were ones that I just didn't fit into. And the other ones, "the dark side" drug people, I didn't want to be around. But I was lucky in that there were a couple of other guys that were also interested in music and we banded together to form a band and that is how it all got started. Actually, a little before that.

I was not a good student in any stretch of the imagination. As a matter of fact, my Sophomore typing teacher, who I am Facebook friends with one told me, that "the way I passed her class was by NEVER TELLING ANYONE I WAS IN HER CLASS!" I still love that one. But a couple of years before high school, in SHOP CLASS (imagine that even being taught today) there were a group of us that used to sit around a "doo wop" sing. You know, like the people in the movies, four or five guys sitting around a trash can fire or a bunch of chairs and singing accapella. That was us. The "Not so Jersey Boys."

But all in all, you look back and see all these seemingly unconnected dots throughout your life that lead you to where you end up. A career of music is sort of like a pinball game. You hit one thing which bounces you into something else which bounces you into something else. It's never really planned or controlled. Which is something that is always pretty funny, when these new kids come to town all full of piss and vinegar and are going to take over the world. They're all going to ""make it" they are all going to rich and famous." It's pretty funny, yet somewhat sad. Because none of them have been prepared for much of anything.

In the old days it was your parents, teachers, girl or boyfriend that told you that you were special and going to be famous. Now they get thousands of "LIKES" on social media and they "win" a participation trophy" of exceptance. This weekend THE VOICE had auditions here in NAshville and thousands upon thousands went down, stood in the cold to get that 8 seconds with the judges. Seeing their Facebook posts, of how incredibly excited they are, selfies of all the people in line with them, then to read about their dissapointment, as they shuffled through. Oh well. Get used to it kids. Dissapointment is a big part of this.

You just sort of have to deal with it and try not to get swamped. Most people quit. Another reason to take your validations where they come. Which is what this thread is about.

Good thread.
MAB

#1162165 - 03/11/20 07:02 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Such a great thread! Thanks to you all for sharing your hearts, souls and information. Hats off to you all. The stories were heart warming.

#1162244 - 03/17/20 08:00 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Just going back over and reading some of these posts!
Everyone is so good about sharing their experiences, I love these kind of posts.
Thanks guys!
We are very fortunate to be able to create something magical in a world that never existed
before we were here. Happy writing everyone!-Dana

#1162273 - 03/19/20 08:22 PM Re: Validation, Do You Have It? [Re: Dayson]  
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Wanting social appreciation to start out seemed to be a primary goal. But after awhile I just liked the outlet and expression wherever that spun. Career musicians tend to do certain genres and what their audience likes. There are people that are not performers that need to find their way to a medium, if they ever get their or even discover if they want to.
It does not seem to be a matter with what is better to anyone else but what is felt better with oneself.
Maybe find some compromise and conforming in that.


Eportfolio:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGZj1g-Fb0HSN4PtzegjzIA

3 of 6 tracks of 2 ep's that are best of the rest. or more like bust of the rust.
https://www.songcastmusic.com/profiles/mattbanx

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