Who's Online Now
24 registered members (AntonyRobWells, ejlawrence, Dave Rice, amremt6, ckiphen, couchgrouch, beechnut79, 9ne, 4 invisible), and 822 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Tom Franz
Tom Franz
Northern California
Posts: 1,455
Joined: September 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Christmas In Your Eyes
by ejlawrence. 12/14/19 03:22 PM
Co-writer
by John Lawrence Schick. 12/14/19 03:21 PM
Beauty Blinded my Eyes
by ckiphen. 12/14/19 02:32 PM
Mr. Tambourine Man
by John W. Selleck. 12/14/19 02:08 PM
On Thin Ice
by John W. Selleck. 12/14/19 02:02 PM
Can't Fight The Night
by Vicarn. 12/14/19 11:49 AM
I Am An American
by Irwin. 12/14/19 11:34 AM
Music In Two Movies...
by John Lawrence Schick. 12/14/19 11:20 AM
Tug of War
by ckiphen. 12/14/19 10:32 AM
Why so many one hit wonders?
by Fdemetrio. 12/14/19 10:31 AM
Louisiana Woman Co-write with Vicarn
by John W. Selleck. 12/14/19 12:31 AM
FREE Demo for Christmas - Finished
by Chris Erhardt. 12/13/19 11:41 PM
Human Kindness
by JaneK. 12/13/19 11:36 PM
songs for brian.
by Brian Austin Whitney. 12/13/19 11:00 PM
New music platform Amadei
by theAmadei. 12/13/19 07:13 PM
I Love My Island Life
by John W Selleck. 12/13/19 06:09 PM
I lived but I lost Love
by ckiphen. 12/13/19 02:27 PM
Brian's FB post and surgery news
by Vicarn. 12/13/19 02:16 PM
Wow! I just noticed....
by Dave Rice. 12/13/19 09:31 AM
Out of this world Valentine
by Brian Austin Whitney. 12/13/19 03:45 AM
Daily Distractions 12-16-2017 (Best Advice EVER)
by Brian Austin Whitney. 12/13/19 03:44 AM
Royalties & Cue Sheets...
by Brian Austin Whitney. 12/13/19 03:40 AM
NEW MEMBERS CHECK HERE
by Brian Austin Whitney. 12/13/19 03:39 AM
I have a question about cd submissions.
by Brian Austin Whitney. 12/13/19 03:38 AM
Its this Whiskey
by lane1777. 12/13/19 12:01 AM
Gina and Pasqueli
by John W Selleck. 12/12/19 08:42 PM
Loss
by Ricki E. Bellos. 12/12/19 03:34 PM
"Snowflake" (The Christmas Kitten! )
by Dave Rice. 12/12/19 09:55 AM
GMATT Awards
by Everett Adams. 12/12/19 07:20 AM
Thought Music Doesn't Sell
by John W Selleck. 12/12/19 03:01 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,789
Travis david 11,642
Kevin Emmrich 10,568
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,600
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,844
glynda 8,623
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,907
couchgrouch 7,623
Dave Rice 7,426
Corey 7,357
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,561
Joe Wrabek 6,403
Vicarn 6,201
ben willis 6,106
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
niteshift 5,523
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,653
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,364
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,179
Cindy Miller 4,178
Roy Cooper 4,167
nightengale 4,092
TamsNumber4 4,075
MFB III 3,867
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,813
Dan Sullivan 3,710
beechnut79 3,529
Dottie 3,427
E Swartz 3,421
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
Nigel Quin 2,812
MidniteBob 2,707
Nelson 2,583
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,242
Judy Hollier 2,232
Wendy D 2,219
Erica Ellis 2,202
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,022
DukeWill 1,987
floyd jane 1,982
maccharles 1,966
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,650
Noel Downs 1,620
Martin Lide 1,609
Rick Heenan 1,597
Cal 1,574
Jack Swain 1,554
Fdemetrio 1,546
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,462
Tom Franz 1,455
GocartMoz 1,441
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,428
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,408
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
Glen King 1,214
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
Gerry 1,144
lane1777 1,133
summeoyo 1,126
Deej56 1,109
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
IronKnee 947
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
9ne 888
Drifter 886
Petra 883
90 dB 870
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
Andy K 744
tbryson 737
Andy Kemp 733
ant 732
Jackie444 731
Dayson 704
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
Irwin 631
Pat Hardy 623
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
Moosesong 604
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
R&M 493
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
JAPOV 473
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Cecilee 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
spidey 371
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1158645 - 11/17/19 01:43 PM This Town  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
David_Pulizzi Offline
Casual Observer
David_Pulizzi  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
Williamsport, Pennsylvania
Hello. My name is David. I just joined this site, and this is my first post here. I'm hoping to share a few songs, get some critique and respond to tunes that others post. I've been writing songs for quite a few years. This first one that I'm posting is of relatively recent vintage. Loosely, it's about the small town in northcentral Pennsylvania where I was born and raised and, after living in a half-dozen different cities during the last 30 years or so, where I now reside once again. The song is called "This Town," and I'd be glad to hear anything anyone might have to say about it. Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/david-pulizzi/this-town-1

This Town

There’s not much fun in this town
Unless you’re drunk or high
But you’re bound by blood to this town
Until the day you die

And even then the sidewalks call to you
And your bones stir where they’re laying when they do

There’s not much talk in this town
About books and love and art
So you lose your hope in this town
And then you lose your heart

And the world rolls by like there’s nothing here to see
The world rolls by and it just lets us be
And time … just passes by

There’s a pretty girl in this town
I keep my eye upon
We were married once in this town
And we had ourselves a son

And he’d dream at night of the lovely things you’d do
And stir where he lay sleeping next to you

We fell apart in this town
Lost the fire down below
Where love goes in this town
No one seems to know

It just disappears and leaves you feeling low
Like someone turned the light off in your soul
And time … just passes by

The years roll by in this town
And nothing seems to change
If you live for long in this town
That don’t seem so strange

And if you wonder if I ever come unglued
I tell you now for certain that I do

We’ve served our time in this town
We’ve no cause for complaint
We’ve had tough luck in this town
And good luck just the same

Now we stumble down dark streets once paved in gold
And we wonder how and when we grew so old
Well, time … just passed us by

There’s not much fun in this town
Unless you’re drunk or high
The world rolls right past this town
The world rolls right on by
Right on by …

©2019 David Pulizzi
All rights reserved

#1158647 - 11/17/19 02:30 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 870
90 dB Offline
Top 500 Poster
90 dB  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 870
Florida
This is masterful. Excellent - most excellent.



Regards,


Bob

#1158648 - 11/17/19 03:41 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 855
Gavin Sinclair Online content
Top 500 Poster
Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
Top 500 Poster

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 855
Conover, North Carolina, USA
Nice to have you here, David.

I enjoyed the song a lot. The lyrics had a bit of a Springsteen feel to them. Great performance and production too. My only worry would be that it's a bit too long.

#1158652 - 11/17/19 05:35 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623
couchgrouch Online content
Top 30 Poster
couchgrouch  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623
Hi David and welcome to JPF. I like what you're trying to do and the melody is really good. But it's very long for that tempo and unnecessarily so. To me, it could use some more show, rather than just telling us the town is a bummer. And no one can leave?

It seemed a little odd that you described you and your son as
having lost the fire down below. I'm guessing you meant your wife but grammatically, it refers to your son. And who is the "you" he's dreaming about and sleeping next to? I think that should be "we" and "us".

Maybe take three minutes off it, think about the grammar and write an image that puts the audience in the town.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 11/17/19 06:19 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1158666 - 11/18/19 11:46 AM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 870
90 dB Offline
Top 500 Poster
90 dB  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 870
Florida
Too long? smirk


Hotel California runs 61/2 minutes.

The radio mix for "Stairway to Heaven" runs about 8 1/2.


https://www.thetoptens.com/best-ling-rock-songs/


Great way to welcome a guy who is presenting a song as a new member.

A song, I might add, that is far better than most of the stuff I've heard on this site. From a guy who is actually a musician with actual credits to his name.



David,

I really like "Mexico" too. My only advice on this site would be to consider the sources of the "critiques" when posting in this forum. cool


Regards,

Bob

#1158668 - 11/18/19 12:10 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623
couchgrouch Online content
Top 30 Poster
couchgrouch  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623
I welcomed him with an honest critique, which I assume he was after. This song isn't Hotel California or Stairway to Heaven. ( or Kokomo) Those tunes have memorable titles, intros, melodies and detailed lyrics full of imagery. This does not have that. It's six and half minutes of complaints about a town, without ever actually saying why the town is bad or describing the town in any way. It starts feeling long after three minutes. That's not counting the grammar problems, which demand large rewrites.

If this were to get played at one of the many Nashville publisher pitches I attended, it'd get turned off after 45 seconds. I critiqued the song, not his credits, whatever they may be. I rarely read song intros. There's another song on here, not having read the extensive intro, I have no idea what it's about.

David, this isn't about you, but about JPF's long standing severe allergy toward real critiques. I, of course, could be wrong. Like with anything else, take what you can use.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 11/18/19 12:15 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1158670 - 11/18/19 12:32 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
David_Pulizzi Offline
Casual Observer
David_Pulizzi  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
Williamsport, Pennsylvania
Thanks to all for the comments.

And, Bob, I didn't mind the slightly bumpy welcome. I didn't join this site to be gratuitously flattered. That said, I appreciate your glowing remarks, and I'm glad to accept them as heartfelt and honest. Again, thanks.

As to the song's length, that won't change (for better or worse). Regarding Couchgrouch's query about exactly who has lost the fire down below, I think it's fairly obvious and intuitive that I am not speaking about my son and I, but rather myself and the "pretty girl" mentioned in the previous verse.

The critique of the following couplet is more significant to me:

"And he’d dream at night of the lovely things you’d do
And stir where he lay sleeping next to you"

Again, I think it's fairly intuitive that I'm speaking to the pretty girl, but I recognize that in that couplet the lyrics shift from addressing a general audience to the pretty girl specifically. I was aware of it when writing the song, and I'm not surprised that someone mentioned it here. It is questionable, and couchgrouch's suggested edit would certainly clarify the phrase, but it would also introduce unintended meaning. It's not about "us," it's about "her" (or, in this case, "you"). If anything, I'd change the lines to read: "And he'd dream at night of the lovely things she'd do/And stir where he laid sleeping next to her," but I'm OK with sacrificing a touch of literal meaning for a phrase that rings more agreeably when sung. And so, for now at least, I'll keep it as is.

#1158671 - 11/18/19 12:48 PM Re: This Town [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
David_Pulizzi Offline
Casual Observer
David_Pulizzi  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
Williamsport, Pennsylvania
No worries, Couchgrouch. I would point out, however, that in your first critique, you wrote "the melody is really good." In explaining that first critique to Bob, you mentioned that the song does not have a memorable melody. So you're saying the melody is really good but not memorable? In any event, every good song is not full of the colorful detail you seem to prefer. As to your claim that the song would be "turned off after 45 seconds" were it played "at one of the many Nashville publisher pitches" you attended, you might be right, but I'm fairly confident that you do not speak for all, or even any, of Nashville's many publishers. Still, I appreciate and thank you for the time you took to critique the song.

#1158673 - 11/18/19 01:42 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623
couchgrouch Online content
Top 30 Poster
couchgrouch  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623
It's not as memorable as Hotel California or Stairway to Heaven. It's memorable for the internet.

Those lines shift from 3rd person to 1st person. I knew what you were trying to say, but the lines don't say it. Grammatically, they're way, way off. Hey, it's your song.

I don't speak for all members of any group. But I do have some experience in the area, even just as a writer. A six and a half minute song will have to keep people interested. Hotel California and Stairway to Heaven are good examples of how to do that.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 11/18/19 01:45 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1158676 - 11/18/19 06:47 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 76
Guy E. Trepanier Online content
Serious Contributor
Guy E. Trepanier  Online Content
Serious Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 76
Quebec
Very good structure.
Very good melody.
Very good arrangement.
I enjoyed my listening while reading the lyrics... for over six minutes.

Have fun!


K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple and Singable
Soundclick: Songs buy Guy E. Trepanier
#1158677 - 11/18/19 08:18 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,472
Gary E. Andrews Offline
Top 200 Poster
Gary E. Andrews  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,472
Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
Too long for terrestrial radio. They like short Songs, leaving more time for commercial ads that pay the bills. The Songs are just there to keep people listening between ads.

This Town

There’s not much fun in This Town (This first time you say the title, THE Hook, don't let your voice drop off. Make sure they hear it and get it the first time they hear it.)
Unless you’re drunk or high
But you’re bound by blood to This Town (I always question the need for 'But', 'And' and 'Because/'Cause'. Writers use them to connect ideas, but they can clutter up a Line in the singer's mouth, and the Line can read the same without them.)
Until the day you die

And even then the sidewalks call to you ('And'?)
And your bones stir where they’re laying when they do ('And'? Do the Lines read/sing better without 'And'?)

There’s not much talk in This Town (Verse II Line1 Repeats V1 Line 1, save for one word.)
About books and love and art (The further elucidation of what the Singer-Character emphasizes makes the Song strongly about 'This Town', likely locking in 'This Town' as the main idea. Verse III goes afield to tell of the 'pretty girl', a new and possibly more interesting focus for the main idea. Relationships are more interesting than feelings about life in general in a town.)
So you lose your hope in this town
And then you lose your heart ('And' here enables the Melody to match Line 4 of Verse I, with six syllables/notes to sing.)

And the world rolls by like there’s nothing here to see ('And' here could be omitted, maybe making the Line better.)
The world rolls by and it just lets us be
And time … just passes by (Omitting 'And' in Line 1 of this three-Line Stanza makes this 'And' less obtrusive.)

There’s a pretty girl in This Town
I keep my eye upon
We were married once in This Town
And we had ourselves a son (And)

And he’d dream at night of the lovely things you’d do (And)(The 'he'd' would make me think it referred to the 'son' Character introduced in the preceding Line.)
And stir where he lay sleeping next to you (And)

We fell apart in This Town (More about the relationship, less about the town. Deleting Verse I or II, and getting quickly to this relationship might be a stronger Song.)
Lost the fire down below
Where love goes in This Town
No one seems to know (Here the Singer-Character lapses into philosophical observation, away from the relationship.)

It just disappears and leaves you feeling low
Like someone turned the light off in your soul
And time … just passes by (Repeat from Stanza above.)

The years roll by in This Town (Now the Singer-Character is back to philosophizing about the town.)
And nothing seems to change (And)
If you live for long in This Town
That don’t seem so strange

And if you wonder if I ever come unglued (And)
I tell you now for certain that I do

We’ve served our time in This Town (Now I hear the 'we' as the Singer-Character speaking for the people of town, possibly for the son and ex-wife and himself, but then the next Line seems to leave out the ex who obviously had a complaint, and gave him one.)
We’ve no cause for complaint
We’ve had tough luck in this town
And good luck just the same

Now we stumble down dark streets once paved in gold (Again, the 'collective' reference to 'we' seems to reference the feelings and experience of the general population, possibly the son and ex-wife. It's vague.)
And we wonder how and when we grew so old (And)
Well, time … just passed us by (Again, a Repeat, emphasizing that idea of 'time', and in the strategic Last Line position, leaving it ringing in listener's ears as the Stanza ends.)

There’s not much fun in this town
Unless you’re drunk or high
The world rolls right past this town
The world rolls right on by
Right on by …

©2019 David Pulizzi
All rights reserved


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1158679 - 11/18/19 08:36 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,568
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,568
Crozet, VA
Good song. I don't care about radio play, I only care if it keeps my interest. If that is you singing, it is pretty dang good. Mighty fine production, too.

I will agree with grouch that it seems pretty long at this tempo. About the 4 minute mark, I was checking to see how much was left (ha, ha) . I did make it all the way through, though.

Well done and welcome to JPF.


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1158680 - 11/18/19 09:30 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,609
Martin Lide Offline
Top 200 Poster
Martin Lide  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,609
Houston, Texas
Nice tune. Enjoyed listening.

I agree that it does re-trace too much content. The short guitar solo sounds a bit harsh to me. But it is a pleasant listen overall and you are clearly musical.
Thanks for posting.

Martin

#1158681 - 11/19/19 05:50 AM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,201
Vicarn Online content
Top 40 Poster
Vicarn  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,201
UK
I love the simple message and mostly the melody works. Reminds me of something Hal Ketchum would do.
It does seem a little long and a little loose in meaning in some areas.
Needs trimming to get to the nitty gritty.
Just my opinion. Great start.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1158704 - 11/19/19 04:43 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 564
Steve Altonian Offline
Top 500 Poster
Steve Altonian  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 564
Los Angeles, California
Hey,

Welcome here......

My question is this ? Why in God's name would I wanna go to THIS TOWN? Ain't no future there

There’s not much fun in this town
Unless you’re drunk or high


Steve Altonian---"I'll just do my best & let God do the rest"

http://www.stevealtonian.com
#1158707 - 11/19/19 05:33 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio Online content
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
What is radio play anyway these days?

I cant hear the tune at the moment. As far as the lyric, even the worst towns ever have loyal patrons. Which is Why Trump calling Haiti a chithole, is offensive, because its still somebodys home. I didnt think Couchgrouch's critique was bad, but I do wonder why he only chimes in on new people's stuff? is it the distance factor?

People seem to like the music, when I get a chance Ill give it a spin.

Now, no particular home town was mentioned here just general stuff. Songs like this work best when there is a sense of pride, even if its a chit hole. Could be more descriptive.

Springsteen got famous for this.

This is a great lyric about a dead town. (music was kind of awkward, talk about long...)

Lays it out there, but honoring the people still there.

Freehold

I was born right here on Randolph street in Freehold
Here right behind that big red maple in Freehold
Well, I went to school right here
Got laid and had my first beer
In Freehold

Well, my folks always lived and worked right here in Freehold
I remember running up the street, past the condo to the church here in Freehold
Chase my daddy down in these bars
First fell in love with this guitar
Here in frehold

Well, I had my first kiss at the YMCA canteen on a Friday night
Maria Espenoza tell me where are you tonight?
You were 13 but way ahead of your time
I walked home with a limp but I felt fine
That night in Freehold

Well, the girls at freehold regional they looked pretty fine
And my heart broke at least half a dozen times
I wonder if they miss me, they still get the itch
Would they have dumped me if they knew I'd strike it rich?
Straight out of Freehold

Well, tex, rest in peace, and marion gave us kids a hand in Freehold
George and me started up a little rock and roll band in freehold
Well, we learned pretty quick how to rock
I'll never forget the feeling of that first 5 bucks in my pocket
That I earned in Freehold

Well, I got outta here really hard and fast in Freehold
Everybody wanted to kick my ass back there in Freehold
Well, if you were different, black or brown
It was a bit of a redneck town
Back then in Freehold

Well, something broke my daddy's back in Freehold
In '69 he left and he never come back to freehold
'cept once he drove from California, 3000 miles in three days
Called my relatives some dirty names
And pulled straight out of Freehold

My sister had her first little baby at 17 in Freehold
Well people they can be pretty mean
Honey, you had a rough road to go, but you ain't made of nothin' but soul
I love you more than you'll ever know
We both survived Freehold

Well, my buddy Mike, well, he's the mayor now in Freehold
I remember when we used to have a lot more hair in Freehold
Well, I left and swore I'd never walk these streets again, Jack
Tonight all I can say is "holy [naughty word removed], I'm back!"
Back in Freehold

Well, this summer everything was green in Freehold
Rode my kids on the fire engine through the streets of Freehold
I showed 'em where their dad was born and raised
And first felt the sun on his face
There in Freehold

Well, i still got a lot of good friends right here in town
I can usually find me a free beer somewhere
With offers of free meals I am blessed
Should I go crazy, blow all my money and ruin my life, well, at least I'll never go hungry i guess
Here in Freehold

Well, I got a good Catholic education here in Freehold
Led to an awful lot of masturbation here in Freehold
Father, it was just something I did for a smile
Hell, I still get a good one off once in a while
And dedicate it to Freehold
Don't get me wrong, I ain't puttin' anybody down
Hell, in the end it all just goes and comes around
It's one hell of a town, Freehold!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/19/19 05:40 PM.
#1158711 - 11/19/19 05:53 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623
couchgrouch Online content
Top 30 Poster
couchgrouch  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,623


I don't only critique new members...see Marvin's tune from
a couple of weeks ago. That said, I critiqued a guy's around this time last year and it just wasn't worth it. What a quagmire. Even his producer got involved. My critique was accurate, it was a poorly written song.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1158712 - 11/19/19 05:56 PM Re: This Town [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio Online content
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Originally Posted by couchgrouch


I don't only critique new members...see Marvin's tune from
a couple of weeks ago. That said, I critiqued a guy's around this time last year and it just wasn't worth it. What a quagmire. Even his producer got involved. My critique was accurate, it was a poorly written song.


We need more of what your giving here. Just gotta put the medicine in with the dessert so to speak...


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/19/19 05:56 PM.
#1158714 - 11/19/19 06:26 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio Online content
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Hey not that anyone really cares, but this gal Maria Espinoz who is named in the song i posted above, is a real person. lol I googled it myself to find out

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/1996/nov/16/she-was-the-first-gal-to-give-the-boss-a-buss/

#1158719 - 11/19/19 08:32 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
David_Pulizzi Offline
Casual Observer
David_Pulizzi  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
Williamsport, Pennsylvania
Again, thanks for all the commentary. You've given me a lot to consider, and it's all much appreciated.

Fdemetrio, I thought I'd heard just about every song Springsteen ever recorded, but "Freehold" was new to me. I looked it up, saw that he never recorded it in a studio and that a live version has never been officially released. I still haven't listened to it--I'll get to that later this evening--but the lyrics, as you implied, are sharp and evocative. In your note that preceded the lyrics, I was struck by your assertion that "songs like this work best when there is a sense of pride." I suppose that's true. And I do think my song would've likely been better had I demonstrated a bit more feeling for the town in question, which, by the way, is Williamsport, Pennsylvania, the one-time lumber capital of the world and the home of Little League Baseball. When I wrote the song, I wasn't really looking to paint any sort of picture of Williamsport. I was more entwined in a general feeling that night. It was getting late, and I was already feeling a touch lonesome and maybe even a little melancholy. I walked out behind my house, and as I stood in the yard drinking a beer I could hear 18-wheelers trucking along the beltway, about a mile distant. And I started thinking about the people driving those trucks and how they were just speeding right on past this little town, probably without giving it a passing thought. That led me to the line in the song about the world rolling by like there's nothing here to see. Aside from the sound of the distant trucks going by, it was quiet outside that night, as it usually is after 9 p.m. or so around here. There's just not a lot going on, and in the mood I was in that night, I came in and wrote the opening line of the song, which is, "There's not much fun in this town unless you're drunk or high" (which struck me at the time as more or less true). And from there I just let my mood and those lines lead me through the song. None of this explanation makes the song any better, I know, but I am nonetheless trying to convey that I was only attempting to describe how I was feeling on a particular evening. I realize I did the town itself no great service, but, again, that wasn't my intent. There is much about this town that I admire, and I could've more thoughtfully said so.

Anyhow, thanks again to everyone who bothered to listen to the song and offer their thoughts about it. That was most kind and, as I said, much appreciated.

#1158726 - 11/20/19 11:31 AM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio Online content
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Originally Posted by David_Pulizzi
Again, thanks for all the commentary. You've given me a lot to consider, and it's all much appreciated.

Fdemetrio, I thought I'd heard just about every song Springsteen ever recorded, but "Freehold" was new to me. I looked it up, saw that he never recorded it in a studio and that a live version has never been officially released. I still haven't listened to it--I'll get to that later this evening--but the lyrics, as you implied, are sharp and evocative. In your note that preceded the lyrics, I was struck by your assertion that "songs like this work best when there is a sense of pride." I suppose that's true. And I do think my song would've likely been better had I demonstrated a bit more feeling for the town in question, which, by the way, is Williamsport, Pennsylvania, the one-time lumber capital of the world and the home of Little League Baseball. When I wrote the song, I wasn't really looking to paint any sort of picture of Williamsport. I was more entwined in a general feeling that night. It was getting late, and I was already feeling a touch lonesome and maybe even a little melancholy. I walked out behind my house, and as I stood in the yard drinking a beer I could hear 18-wheelers trucking along the beltway, about a mile distant. And I started thinking about the people driving those trucks and how they were just speeding right on past this little town, probably without giving it a passing thought. That led me to the line in the song about the world rolling by like there's nothing here to see. Aside from the sound of the distant trucks going by, it was quiet outside that night, as it usually is after 9 p.m. or so around here. There's just not a lot going on, and in the mood I was in that night, I came in and wrote the opening line of the song, which is, "There's not much fun in this town unless you're drunk or high" (which struck me at the time as more or less true). And from there I just let my mood and those lines lead me through the song. None of this explanation makes the song any better, I know, but I am nonetheless trying to convey that I was only attempting to describe how I was feeling on a particular evening. I realize I did the town itself no great service, but, again, that wasn't my intent. There is much about this town that I admire, and I could've more thoughtfully said so.

Anyhow, thanks again to everyone who bothered to listen to the song and offer their thoughts about it. That was most kind and, as I said, much appreciated.


Yeah, not his most notable song, but it does give an idea about how to write about your home town.

You can write about a horrible place, but i think it depends what type of music. it's certainly not hit or pop subject matter, cause for the most part, people dont like negativity.

It works in punk rock, and alot of rock in general. Nirvana were pretty negative.

One song by an indie artist i admire is similar to your idea. maybe give it a whirl. His is more folksie but hes really good. It can work for singer songwriters too, but you might need to be more convincing. give it a whirl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX8i0iRBXak&list=PLDx4pGb7VAOH93N-K_PWZ77iVq9p0OYOT

#1158735 - 11/20/19 08:45 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,421
E Swartz Offline
Top 100 Poster
E Swartz  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,421
Ohio
Hi Dave!

Welcome to JPF! Yeah there may be a few around here that can be brutally honest, a few that counter their colleagues assertions, and a few that will blow a little smoke, and a few that will just pat you on the back no matter what, and a whole lot that just stay quiet! Isn't that cool and doesn't it make life interesting? Bottom line is you IMO have a great song in melody/performance. Production-wise it's fine but I would also agree that the song would be stronger and better if it were shorter given it's movement and structure. Hey, there are many great long songs and I've written a couple of long songs myself as well--not as good as Stairway to Heaven, but I did try and create dramatic music & composition movement. I do profess however that when you do have a song over 4:15 that it should have dramatic movement with bridges or key or tempo changes, and maybe even rhapsodies--these important structural changes allow the listener to accept a song of this length much better.

Now you mentioned in an early response that you were not going to change anything, so that's fine and certainly your preogative..........there is nothing wrong in writing to please one's self. But when you post a song in the MP3 forum, you will receive opinions/crits--not that they are always better mind you, but this is a group of songwriters who have strong opinions at times--so it's up to you to determine merit or hogwash. I know I've received crits that I both agree and disagree with, but I give all my attention, and sometimes the one's I don't like at first begin to sink in.

IMO, to make this "very, very, good song you've written even better--I would recommend changing the solo area to build more to a crescendo with a fuller digressing sound than the lead guitar you are using--do not resolve so much after that solo, but rather, launch into the last verse. This is not the time to bring the mood down again...........let the last vs do that. Either do not repeat the 1st verse or use that repeat vs after the solo if you feel a need to go 360 with the lyrics. In this manner, you will still have a long song, yet more climactic "pre-ending" and able to hold your listener better and empower your resolve.

JMO--use or lose.........Great work here with real potential--you have some real talent!

steady-eddie

#1158741 - 11/20/19 10:16 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
JAPOV Offline
Top 500 Poster
JAPOV  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
Yep, long song.... longer thread lol. This site is kinda' like a small town David smile

#1158743 - 11/20/19 10:19 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
David_Pulizzi Offline
Casual Observer
David_Pulizzi  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
Williamsport, Pennsylvania
Eddie,

Hello. Thank you for the kind welcome, the detailed critique and the thoughtful suggestions.

I've pondered all of the critiques I've received about this song, and if there's a common denominator among them, it's that the tune is too long. For some reason, that had never occurred to me, but I'm glad several listeners have pointed it out. When I wrote earlier in this thread that, for better or worse, the song's length won't change, I was referring to the recorded version. Which is to say, I won't be recording the song again. But that doesn't preclude me from further tinkering with the song in an attempt to incorporate one or more of the suggestions I've received--and then playing that revised version at gigs. Speaking of suggestions, I can't make perfect sense of yours. Are you suggesting I delete the verse that immediately follows the guitar solo and instead go straight into the verse that begins "We've served our time in this town"? If so (or even if not), that's an interesting idea. It would certainly make the song a bit shorter and maybe a bit better, as well. Unfortunately I can't quite figure what you mean when you recommend "changing the solo area to build more to a crescendo with a fuller digressing sound." Specifically, it's "fuller digressing sound" that I can't quite grasp. I wish I could, because I sense that you're offering good advice. In any case, I'll do what I can with what I can understand.

Thanks again for the good and helpful words. I'll look forward to returning the kindness when the opportunity presents itself. ... David

#1158750 - 11/20/19 11:24 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,421
E Swartz Offline
Top 100 Poster
E Swartz  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,421
Ohio
Hey David,

I'm sorry for not being more clear. I went back and listened again to the solo area. When I was commenting above, I was thinking the solo was after the next vs. I feel your guitar solo needs a different approach and tone--you do not need the spacious break with electric piano after that solo--it feels like an "intermission" disconnecting the listener. The solo alone is enough break with this long slower tempo song. Experiment with a guitar solo with a more distant reverb/delay that builds--also it might work better for the solo not follow the exact same vs melody, but more importantly when solo finishes --go directly into the next vs. You could delete one of the later verses and return to your last vs. or not go back to the 1st vs. I do kind of like returning to the beginning vs the more I think of it however.

1) augment/experiment with guitar solo to be more climatic rather than just an instrumental vs--experiment with guitar solo sounds.....
2) delete post solo break w/piano-will give song more of a climax and cut some time.
3) eliminate one later vs- for downsizing--I've had this task of deleting a vs, sometimes painful, sometimes I've ended up rearranging verses.....

JMO David--but I strive to give you my reasoning as to why, rather than just say it's "too long." Some songs can be long when structured properly or have a vibe/subject matter that make it work. This is a beautiful ballad, but not a rhapsody or song that changes enough musically to go much beyond 4:15-4:30 which is still considered long. I didn't delve into the lyrics--I feel lyrics are best polished (if needed) after you get the music foundation and timing in place.

BTW--I wouldn't give you this much of my time if I didn't think this song had any potential!

steady-eddie

#1158751 - 11/20/19 11:58 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
JAPOV Offline
Top 500 Poster
JAPOV  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
Just a thought....

There’s not much fun in this town
Unless you’re drunk or high
But you’re bound by blood to this town
Until the day you die

And even then the sidewalks remind you
Of bones that never stir when they’re through

And the world rolls by like there’s nothing here to see
The world rolls by and it just lets us be
And time … just passes by

There’s a pretty girl in this town
I used to keep my eye on
I was married once in this town
And we had ourselves a son

Wasn’t long before he'd grown and left this town
Reminds me of his Mom when he’s around

I fell to pieces in this town
Lost the fire down below
Where love goes in this town
No one seems to know

It just disappears and leaves you feeling low
Like someone turned the light off in your soul
And time … just passes by

The years roll by in this town
And nothing seems to change
If you live for long in this town
That don’t seem so strange

And if you wonder if I ever miss my youth
I tell you now for certain that I do

Now I stumble down dark streets once paved in gold
And wonder how and when I grew so old
Well, time … just passed me by

There’s not much fun in this town
Unless you’re drunk or high
The world rolls right past this town
The world rolls right on by
Right on by …

#1158762 - 11/21/19 10:26 AM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
David_Pulizzi Offline
Casual Observer
David_Pulizzi  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
Williamsport, Pennsylvania
Eddie, again, thanks so much for the thoughtful suggestions. They all strike me as sound. I like the idea of cutting the post-solo break and also doing away with one of the two final verses. Those fixes will shorten the length of the song, and I won't lose anything I wanted to say. In fact, I expect that implementing the changes will more strongly and effectively convey what I wish to say.

Toward that end--what I wish to say--thank you, Japov, for the time and care you took to offer a rewrite of the lyrics. You also thought to eliminate one of the final verses, and I'm convinced that's a good move. The rewrite of yours that I like best is "And if you wonder if I ever miss my youth/I tell you now for certain that I do." I was never thrilled with "If you wonder if I ever come unglued." Thankfully, you've given me something that's more resonant and fitting. I picked up a guitar a few minutes ago and tried that new line. I liked it. I'll probably change the second line of the couplet, as well, to something like, "I tell you nopw there are some nights when I do." Point is, I want to more clearly say that I don't ALWAYS miss my youth. Only sometimes. I also like changing "Now we stumble ..." to "Now I stumble ..." I also tried singing those revised lines a few minutes ago, and though I'll need to get used to the way they roll off my tongue, I think I might keep them.

To both of you gentlemen, truly, thanks for the help. ... David

#1158780 - 11/21/19 07:54 PM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
JAPOV Offline
Top 500 Poster
JAPOV  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
There’s no such thing as a perfect song....... They can always be re-written smile

#1158953 - 11/27/19 12:51 AM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,109
Deej56 Offline
Top 500 Poster
Deej56  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,109
David,

A terrific mix and a wonderful vocal—and magnetic hook. Folks can debate about the length . . . personally, I have no issues as long as the song keeps my interest . . . and this one does. Sure, given its length it’s not going to go anywhere commercially in today’s market . . . but what good song, regardless of length, is going anywhere in today’s market. :-)

It’s artistic, emotional and well-sung and put together. Cool song. The lyrics are solid . . . I wouldn’t shorten the lyrics unless it feels right to you. I think some of the confusion may be that the title of the song is “This Town,” but the song is not really about the the town at all. So describing it is somewhat off point. It’s far more about the relationship.

Really good stuff. Hope you’re not discouraged and share more with us.

My humble regards,

Deej

#1158968 - 11/27/19 08:40 AM Re: This Town [Re: David_Pulizzi]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
David_Pulizzi Offline
Casual Observer
David_Pulizzi  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 32
Williamsport, Pennsylvania
Again, Deej, your thoughts are very much appreciated on my end. Thank you for taking the time to listen and consider. Have a great day. ... David


Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
theAmadei, Muriel, LarryJ, JETurner, ClarkFord
21241 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics119,608
Posts1,127,257
Members21,241
Average Posts Daily34
Most Online3,244
Nov 8th, 2019
Just Plain Quotes
"Sharing in your success is the payback to those who shared in your failure." -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0