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#1158348 - 10/31/19 11:07 AM Thought Music Doesn't Sell  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Came across this list of top selling singles of all time. Every single one of them are post-internet downloading era.

If the music business is dead, and music doesnt make money, how are the top selling singles of all time all recent?

Seems to be all pop music, but still, if music is free everywhere, how is it selling anywhere?

Strange dichotomy, enigma, conundrum...

https://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-music-singles-of-all-time-2019-4

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/31/19 11:08 AM.
#1158353 - 10/31/19 02:58 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Certain music is selling, but it has to do with the artist branding more than any songs. Visability is viability and if you have songs that are everywhere, television, movies, mainstream radio, yes, you still can make money. Out of around 12 billion songs a year, there are less than around 500 that qualify in those categories.

#1158354 - 10/31/19 03:36 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Certain music is selling, but it has to do with the artist branding more than any songs. Visability is viability and if you have songs that are everywhere, television, movies, mainstream radio, yes, you still can make money. Out of around 12 billion songs a year, there are less than around 500 that qualify in those categories.


I have heard even big time rock n rollers like Roger Daltry saying nobody is buying music.

Funny, I hate just about every song on that list. I just thought human nature, people can and will get even those singles for free, pretty easily, just by going on youtube to listen for free or spotify. That's why it kind of surprised that anybody would pay a nickel for music any more.

#1158362 - 11/01/19 07:12 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Everett Adams Offline
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If those that are fighting climate control get their way, music and many other things may not be so readily available as they are now. So it might be nice to have your favourite songs on CD or other conveyances that you can listen to it.

#1158364 - 11/01/19 09:19 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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One thing that should be noted on this, the figures on sales of these songs can be somewhat misleading. In the instance of Meghan Trainor, for instance and her "ALL ABOUT THE BASS" song, the sales on the song were included with sales of PRODUCTS relating to that song.The "talking fish" for instance, that hangs on the wall, you push a button, and it sings the song, was a big part of that, selling very well, especially during the Christmas season. It was also used in commericals, film and television, t-shirts, dolls, all sorts of products . Not to mention her profile in concerts, those figures reflect much more than just the song itself. The same can be said of most of the songs on that list. Many can be streamed or file shared and are fine with the artist if it pushes their live concert or other profiles.

There was a period a few years ago, when Lady Ga Ga made around $20,000 on the airlplay and sales of one of her songs. During the same period, her live concerts and merchandising, endorsements, totalled around $60 MILLION dollars.

So when you are reading articles on money and today's music market, they can be somewhat misleading. Spotify, for instance is one of the worlds worst offenders, claiming they are paying all this money out but almost no writers are reporting huge checks. I do know of one, Miley Cyrus' "Wrecking Ball" which paid the three writers and their publishers a little over $10,000 for 200 million streams. Of course at the same time, Miley was jet setting throughout the world, making millions upon millions of dollars.

So yes, there are artists, songs, careers that do quite well. The Kardashians make millions on "what?" Figure that one out and you can figure out the basis for most of our problems. But if you were to strip away a lot of this, you will probably find that the actual money has to do more with ARTIST BRANDING than any one song.


MAB

#1158380 - 11/03/19 07:49 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Hi Marc:

Great info... that figure on the number of new songs per year is astounding. Wonder how that relates to the total number of active songwriters?

Branding? The only "branding" that is going on in my "neck of the woods" is on new calves and rounded up mavericks... LOL!

Hope it isn't as unseasonably cold over there as we are experiencing here in "West Mayberry!"

Take care and thanks for sharing your insider information with us.

----Dave

#1158385 - 11/04/19 06:38 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Dave, don't you have global warming in your neck of the woods? It's above normal over here.

#1158387 - 11/04/19 08:55 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Dave,

If you want a pretty good analogy, you can use the game of golf. There are around 30-50 million golfers around the world. Cities have enormous tracts of land for golf courses, they are tied up almost every hour of the day, and to get on a course, sometimes the waiting list is for days if not weeks. The amount of money spent on greens fees, cart rentals, clothes, equipment, lessons, travel, etc. is astounding, into the billions. There are golf television channels, millions of instructional videos, YOU TUBE, endless amounts of magazines, online blogs, and information all being added to every minute of every day. The amount of money that television pays to rights of broadcast of tournaments is astounding, with things like the MASTERS, US OPEN, etc. could fund a few countries, for life.

The stars of the game are Gazilionaires, earning millions in prize money, endorsements, some, like Tiger Woods, are some of the most famous celebrities on earth. Want a reality check? See how many "Tiger Woods" go costumes are for Halloween. "Tiger" is actually metaphor for victories. My buddy and Co-writer, Jim Peterik has benefited greatly from this with his song "EYE OF THE TIGER" since that guy has been around. LOL!

There are golfing communities, people make vacation trips to places like ST. ANDREWS in Scottland, just to play where golf was born. It is, quite frankly, a religion, and I've known of preachers cutting their sermons short to see that last round of the Masters.

But out of those, how many people at any country club actually participate in even a "best ball tournament." How many just like to play on those beautiful greens, spend a couple hours of quiet time trying to keep a little white ball going straight on a course? How many people coinsider "hitting the sweet spot on one golf shot like an orgasm? Not to mention people that go to college and other official schools for it.

Yet not a percent of a percent of a percent will ever apply the dedication and nurture the talent to get one of those less than a 1000 PGA cards to make money at it?

So billions of dollars spent, billions made, millions of people try, very very very few succeed at any level.

The same can be said for songwriters, musicians. artists, painters, sculpters, performance artists, authors, etc. CREATORS.

Millions upon millions upon millions, spend billions on equipment, instruments, canvasas, art supplies, colleges, private lessons, instructional videos, YOU TUBE, the INTERNET. Magazines, web sites, endless information. And in some cases, millions upon millions of dollars are made, companies built (and collapse) and entire industry is built around that. How many television pilots are done each year, and how many make a television network? How many movies scripts, plays, books, articles, etc. are done, compared to the very very very very few that will ever make dollar one?

The average songwriter will never make $2000 in their lifetime. So why do it?

Because they HAVE TO. And yes, SOMEONE WILL MAKE MONEY. The same as SOMEBODY will do one of those silly product information commercials we see at 3 in the morning on television because there is nothing else on. Some make fortunes. One of my favorite stories is the "MY PILLOW' guy, who just started making pillows in his basement, and has built it into a multi million dollar mega corporation. One of the strongest stocks on the market place is for a store called "DOLLAR GENERAL." They have stores every where selling everything for very very low costs.There have been hundreds of those types of businesses for ever that have done much the same thing. Why has THAT one bloomed so incredibly?

Have no idea. The same as why does some artist or song, company, etc. become mega gazillionaires and others that might be better, or more deserving, do nothing?

Again, have no idea. If any body could figure out the formula they would only do that and not spend the hundreds of millions in putting failed product out there.

But someone does do well. Why try? Because they have to.

This month, next month, next year, year after, and after that, there will be some breakthrough song or artist. Something every one looks at and goes "I don't get it..." or someone that everyone goes "WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?"

About 30 years ago, I had this funny idea for a novel where a character, a musician, somehow gained access to a time machine and went back in history, writing all the famous songs in the world, BEFORE they were written. He would make billions of dollars and go back and forth, being the most famous songwriter on earth. I got about two pages in and just quit thinking 'it's not worth the effort." And I'm not a book author. (although some people will tell you my posts are like a book.)
But when I started hearing about this movie coming out where a guy was the only one on earth who remembered the Beatles, and becomes the biggest songwriter on earth doing Beatles songs, I thought "Guess it wasn't as dumb an idea as I thought." "YESTERDAY" was a great movie and if I had had any talent or stick to it withness, I might have been that writer.

NAAAH. Give credit where credit is due. Was a fun movie.

The point is that there is a LOT of people that do this. A lot of songs, writers, artists, etc. Very few will succeed but does that really matter? We all have our victories. Having a web site where we can all discuss this sort of stuff. That's a victory.

Have a good day.
MAB







Last edited by Marc Barnette; 11/04/19 09:02 AM.
#1158389 - 11/04/19 10:32 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Well,
When my former Publisher was accepting songs he exclaimed to me practically all the submissions were "Junk". So maybe a lot of those millions of songwriters weren't actually songwriters????

I clicked on your Link FD but all I got is IT APPEARS YOUR POP UP BLOCKER WORKING. And something about you need to turn it off. So I couldn't look at all those songs. Perhaps you can post them here.


Ray E. Strode
#1158391 - 11/04/19 10:42 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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It's alot easier to be seen and heard today. You could even be world famous from internet music, but not have any money to show for it.

If you can sell out big venues, arenas, stadiums, you should have no problem making money in music. But there's only so many venues and so many days in the year, to accommodate everybody who makes music. And also, so many public dollars to spend.

I remember when I was a kid, Because there was no internet, I didnt get to hear thousands, even millions of songs, because the only way to really hear them was to buy them. Working a paper route, I was lucky to buy my absolute favorites once a month.

MTV change it somewhat, you could hear alot more music than you could ever buy simply by watching MTV 24/7. When it first came out, i was glued to it, probably the first two years, then it got boring because the same stuff was in the rotation, it was pretty much like top 40 radio after a while. But I can assure you, I would never heard MEN WITHOUT HATS, or ADAM and The ANTS, MISTER MISTER, Missing Persons, Till Tuesday, The Buggles, Tommy Tutone, The Romantics, Triumph, the list goes on and on, if not for MTV, i certainly wouldnt be able to buy it all.

Now, todays MTV is youtube, and streaming services. You can hear hundreds of songs per day if you want to, all for free.

In that way, it's BETTER for the artist. Ive heard more music since the internet started, than i had previously my whole life. It's a great way to be seen/heard, it's just that nobody can or will pay for it all.

As I said, you could be world famous and not have any money to show for it.

#1158392 - 11/04/19 10:48 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
When my former Publisher was accepting songs he exclaimed to me practically all the submissions were "Junk". So maybe a lot of those millions of songwriters weren't actually songwriters????

I clicked on your Link FD but all I got is IT APPEARS YOUR POP UP BLOCKER WORKING. And something about you need to turn it off. So I couldn't look at all those songs. Perhaps you can post them here.


The list wasnt worth your time Ray, all pseudo r&b, Rap, Cheese pop. But the point was they sold 10 million units each.

There seems to be one little tight zone where artists can still make millions. If they play the superbowl, they usually sell millions right after the halftime show, but then it disappears over night.

But the only time tested way to make money in music is by performing live.

#1158393 - 11/04/19 01:17 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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The key to being an artist and making money has always been LIVE. Records, radio, and later television, movies, etc. were just ways to advertise for the artists' live shows. Artists always make their money from merchandise, live performances, endorsements, etc. For years when record sales were happening, songwriters did make money off of the songs performance and sells. As sales of physical product has diminished, the money from that has diminished also.

Artists have always been BRANDS. Sinatra was a BRAND. ELVIS, THE BEATLES, were BRANDS. They were on lunch boxes, fan magazines, they sold breakfast cereals, all of that was branding. The Beatles and Elvis also moved FASHION, CULTURE and pretty much every thing in their era. That is BRANDING.

Now, money in songs themselves have declined to a point where the other money has had to get bigger to make up the differences. It is why record companies went to the "360 DEGREE DEAL." where the labels also recieved a percentage of touring merchandise, live performances, endorsements, product placement. Thank you AMERICAN IDOL. And now, if you are expecting to get a song "pitched" to an artist, particularly one who is signed to a deal, better plan on them being a writer on the song, whether they are or not. Because without that, you don't even get heard.

There are still indpendent artists, younger and older, that might be open to the idea of outside songs, but for all but a very few, now outside songs are "someone trying to put words in their mouths" and they don't even consider them. This comes from 1964, where the BEATLES proved that the artist could also be the writer which is what put an end almost completely to the outside cut in rock and pop. Country was the last genre to go, but now it is pretty much inside also. Once the Internet made everyone a writer and artist, it pretty much ended the era of the songwriter outside of that artists inner circle.

"Well,
When my former Publisher was accepting songs he exclaimed to me practically all the submissions were "Junk". So maybe a lot of those millions of songwriters weren't actually songwriters????"

Ray, for the most part they weren't songwriters, at least not at the level of people who do it for a living every single day. They were well intentioned people who had friends and relatives tell them how "THEIR SONGS WERE AS GOOD AS ANYTHING ON THE RADIO" and the world just "HAD TO HEAR THEM!" The same as mothers who have fairly homely children who think they are ready to win beauty contests, be on television or the bench sitter in kid's baseball that just needs to "get into the game, to be drafted by the neighbors. Well intentioned and tremendously misinformed.

Millions of people try to pitch these songs to publishers, pluggers, film and television libraries, and not one of them are really involved in the "REAL MUSIC BUSINESS."
They aren't sitting there, holding some artist's hand as they go through a life altering death of a loved one or a break up. They are there at the birth of their children or the day they sign their record deals. They don't understand the inner workings of an artists life and don't know the inner sould of the people they think should be singing their songs. Their songs are almost always completely forgettable, being just mediocre copies of other songs. Most often behind the times following some trend that played out long ago. Or some things that are so obscure or challenged in subject matter that makes no sense for people to even try to pitch them. They are substandard in recordings, sounding like they were recording in some bathroom, complete with a toilet flush. They are overproduced that sound like some other genre than intended. They go on four and five minutes, 5-6 verses, 3 bridges and choruses that sound exaclty like the verses and bridges. I always laugh at the monthly "American Songwriter" contest winners. When is the last time you heard a 5 verse 10 line in each verse, each chorus changing, and nothing remotely understandable in the entire song, on the radio?

Most people write for THERAPY. They mine the inner recesses of their soul, without giving a thought to OTHER PEOPLE WOULD RATHER MINE THEIR OWN INNER RECESSES. It's a business of "relationships" and those people have no relationships. So yes, like your publisher said "They are JUNK. " Barely listenable.

But they try. Lord they try. They grow by legions and the more the Internet grows, the more and more people will be attempting to do this. And they can GET THEIR SONGS OUT THERE. They can form their own YOU TUBE channels, their own podcasts, their own radio stations. The world is their oyster.

Some people will reasonate with an audience and advance. Most won't. Just the world we live in.
MAB

#1158394 - 11/04/19 03:36 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Eh, well,
I'm not sure how many if any Artists are recording much of anything at present. I saw a post on Music Xray that a Publisher was/is looking for new songs for Garth Brooks. Who knows for sure? My guess the Music Business is pretty dead right now and isn't going to change anytime soon. In the past I have seen requests by Record Labels wanting new Artists that write their own songs. One Publisher I found would only accept songs over the Net. Everybody wants a Push Button World.


Ray E. Strode
#1158396 - 11/04/19 07:14 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
The key to being an artist and making money has always been LIVE. Records, radio, and later television, movies, etc. were just ways to advertise for the artists' live shows. Artists always make their money from merchandise, live performances, endorsements, etc. For years when record sales were happening, songwriters did make money off of the songs performance and sells. As sales of physical product has diminished, the money from that has diminished also.

Artists have always been BRANDS. Sinatra was a BRAND. ELVIS, THE BEATLES, were BRANDS. They were on lunch boxes, fan magazines, they sold breakfast cereals, all of that was branding. The Beatles and Elvis also moved FASHION, CULTURE and pretty much every thing in their era. That is BRANDING.

Now, money in songs themselves have declined to a point where the other money has had to get bigger to make up the differences. It is why record companies went to the "360 DEGREE DEAL." where the labels also recieved a percentage of touring merchandise, live performances, endorsements, product placement. Thank you AMERICAN IDOL. And now, if you are expecting to get a song "pitched" to an artist, particularly one who is signed to a deal, better plan on them being a writer on the song, whether they are or not. Because without that, you don't even get heard.

There are still indpendent artists, younger and older, that might be open to the idea of outside songs, but for all but a very few, now outside songs are "someone trying to put words in their mouths" and they don't even consider them. This comes from 1964, where the BEATLES proved that the artist could also be the writer which is what put an end almost completely to the outside cut in rock and pop. Country was the last genre to go, but now it is pretty much inside also. Once the Internet made everyone a writer and artist, it pretty much ended the era of the songwriter outside of that artists inner circle.

"Well,
When my former Publisher was accepting songs he exclaimed to me practically all the submissions were "Junk". So maybe a lot of those millions of songwriters weren't actually songwriters????"

Ray, for the most part they weren't songwriters, at least not at the level of people who do it for a living every single day. They were well intentioned people who had friends and relatives tell them how "THEIR SONGS WERE AS GOOD AS ANYTHING ON THE RADIO" and the world just "HAD TO HEAR THEM!" The same as mothers who have fairly homely children who think they are ready to win beauty contests, be on television or the bench sitter in kid's baseball that just needs to "get into the game, to be drafted by the neighbors. Well intentioned and tremendously misinformed.

Millions of people try to pitch these songs to publishers, pluggers, film and television libraries, and not one of them are really involved in the "REAL MUSIC BUSINESS."
They aren't sitting there, holding some artist's hand as they go through a life altering death of a loved one or a break up. They are there at the birth of their children or the day they sign their record deals. They don't understand the inner workings of an artists life and don't know the inner sould of the people they think should be singing their songs. Their songs are almost always completely forgettable, being just mediocre copies of other songs. Most often behind the times following some trend that played out long ago. Or some things that are so obscure or challenged in subject matter that makes no sense for people to even try to pitch them. They are substandard in recordings, sounding like they were recording in some bathroom, complete with a toilet flush. They are overproduced that sound like some other genre than intended. They go on four and five minutes, 5-6 verses, 3 bridges and choruses that sound exaclty like the verses and bridges. I always laugh at the monthly "American Songwriter" contest winners. When is the last time you heard a 5 verse 10 line in each verse, each chorus changing, and nothing remotely understandable in the entire song, on the radio?

Most people write for THERAPY. They mine the inner recesses of their soul, without giving a thought to OTHER PEOPLE WOULD RATHER MINE THEIR OWN INNER RECESSES. It's a business of "relationships" and those people have no relationships. So yes, like your publisher said "They are JUNK. " Barely listenable.

But they try. Lord they try. They grow by legions and the more the Internet grows, the more and more people will be attempting to do this. And they can GET THEIR SONGS OUT THERE. They can form their own YOU TUBE channels, their own podcasts, their own radio stations. The world is their oyster.

Some people will reasonate with an audience and advance. Most won't. Just the world we live in.
MAB








The biggest branders of music I think in the history of music were/are KISS. Just starting out with the costumes they wore branded them immediately. But there are Kiss lunch boxes, Kiss clothes and boots, Kiss guitars and amps, Kiss caskets!!! Kiss pinball machines, Kiss rollercoasters, and they owned an Arena football team called L.A. Kiss

I dont think any artist ever took it as far as Kiss did.

The thing is how do you have a brand if nobody knows your music yet? In order to be a brand you have to be known, so thats just like starting from scratch

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/04/19 07:22 PM.
#1158399 - 11/05/19 08:43 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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it s pretty clear that songwriting is not a money maker and that there is no fame or fortune waiting on any of us here.

My suggestion is to write from your "core" (whatever that is) and enjoy it. At the end of this life you wont have fame or fortune but you will have something that reflects what your life is and was.
If you write from your core, your chances of being widely recognized is less than an earth-ending-asteroid hitting tommorrow, but it is the best shot you have at presenting "you" to yourself and anyone else who cares to take a look. That's worth taking a shot at.

Morning reflections from Marty

#1158401 - 11/05/19 09:46 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Great observation, Mr. Lide:

Time will erase each and every one of us. Hopefully, a few of our songs, poems, art or other attributes and abilities will remain for others to discover... and maybe even enjoy.

Perfect reflection, my friend, ----Dave

#1158403 - 11/05/19 10:22 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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But, how many of us actually write from the core...truly? id say zero.

And this coming from somebody who listens to some very deep internal songwriters. And I almost always write from what seems real to me, even if I make up the details, the emotion is real.

The reason I ask the question is because, if truly writing from the core, why do you need a verse? a pre chorus...a chorus? A bridge? Why do the lyrics have to make sense to anybody else except you? Why use rhymes?
Why not one giant verse, no chorus, no hook?

Why does the recording have to be good? Why not just post rough takes, cause were only writing for ourselves right? Why pay money to demo a song? Why share it with anyone, if nobody is supposed to like it but you?

Most people here are trying for commercial appeal, one way or another.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/05/19 11:20 AM.
#1158406 - 11/05/19 11:30 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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I wrote that song story from my core. It's not my story but it was what my soul wanted to tell for reasons I can't explain. I didn't worry about song length or genre or anything else. I wasnt trying to capture any trends. With Mike's help and polish I just let it happen.

It needed polish to be worthy of being a real song. And not just a rough sounding idea.

Now I have it and it is nice to have.


#1158410 - 11/05/19 11:39 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
I wrote that song story from my core. It's not my story but it was what my soul wanted to tell for reasons I can't explain. I didn't worry about song length or genre or anything else. I wasnt trying to capture any trends. With Mike's help I just let it happen.

Now I have it and it is nice to have.



Well I felt a real vibe from Marfa Plain, and Im guessing if you played it for regular listeners as opposed to us folks who see and hear way too much amateur music, they'd tell you that was the best one you did.

I just get a kick out of the sentiment we have come to adapt. Make music for yourself..... Nawww really? Ive been doing that willingly or not since I was 14 lol. I actually got to play in front of my school. I was part of the band that played the music for the school play, but in turn, got to play two songs that i wrote with one of the bands I was in at the time.

It was the greatest moment i had as a songwriter or musician, because the reaction was real. "you wrote that"? They had never ran into somebody who wrote their own song before lol. A great time before the internet.

But i think the one thing we lack is a real audience. Most people are bsin if they say they dont want to be appreciated. Everybody does.

I could do without the money, and fame, and have done a great job of writing for myself for a long time, not by choice.... but, id be lying if i said I wouldnt want an audience.

My second goal would be to have a song in a big movie. That's like branding your initials in a not yet dried concrete walkway.

If truly wanting to write from your core, no songwriting rules would apply. in other words, were trying to be appreciated, and alot of times it shows!



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/05/19 11:41 AM.
#1158412 - 11/05/19 12:03 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Thanks for liking Marfa. I enjoyed making it but wrote it with a much greater sense of detachment than the song story. Don't know why but I was all the way in on those.

And I would happily take some fame and fortune, but it's not gonna happen...so with it out of the picture...theres no reason not to "suit yourself."

#1158414 - 11/05/19 01:58 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Great observation, Mr. Lide:

Time will erase each and every one of us. Hopefully, a few of our songs, poems, art or other attributes and abilities will remain for others to discover... and maybe even enjoy.

Perfect reflection, my friend, ----Dave


Thanks Dave. I hope you are feeling well.

#1158418 - 11/05/19 02:50 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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"Eh, well,
I'm not sure how many if any Artists are recording much of anything at present. I saw a post on Music Xray that a Publisher was/is looking for new songs for Garth Brooks. Who knows for sure? My guess the Music Business is pretty dead right now and isn't going to change anytime soon. In the past I have seen requests by Record Labels wanting new Artists that write their own songs. One Publisher I found would only accept songs over the Net. Everybody wants a Push Button World."

Ray, you always make me laugh pretty hard with your "The music business is dead..." stuff. That's always a good one. The music business IS DEAD for a lot of people,just like the game of golf is dead to a lot of people to play that Masters. Doesn't mean the MULTI BILLION DOLLAR GOLF INDUSTRY OR THE MULTI BILLION DOLLAR ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY is "DEAD." It's not. It just has more people in it, and collecting more money, but paying out to fewer and fewer people. Just like pretty much all businesses. Because every single Burger place on earth is not making fortunes, doesn't mean THE ENTIRE BURGER INDUSTRY IS DEAD. McDonalds, Burger King, Sonic, etc. are doing just fine, as well as other places around the world. To say "It's all dead" is silly.

The days of "Mailing something into a publisher who the writers don't know personally or having no relationships with actual artists, or mechanisms to get inside those circles, are dead and always have been so. And yes, publishers still would be "looking for something for Garth Brooks" because his name goes onto a pitch sheet and everyone tries to get something to them. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to have access to him. Garth just released a new project that he has liscenced for his 3 year tour that is currently going on. So "looking for something for Garth" doesn't even seem to make much sense to him. But they try.

The music business is FAR from dead. We are all just having to find ways to exist in it as the old methods are dying off. There will be people that make money, although it may come in different forms, just like the old way of publishing, getting cuts and making money, have changed, More people are involved and some are doing quite well. A few at the top of the heap are doing incredible. The rich get richer. But those current rich people were once the poor, average people. Just have to be in the right place, right time, with the right product.

But believe me, if it is ALL DEAD, it is one of the loudest dead businesses that exist, because more people are involved, tours make more money, and more activity is going on. Quite a bit of activity for a dead thing.

Good laugh though. Thanks a lot.
MAB

#1158421 - 11/05/19 03:16 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
"Eh, well,
I'm not sure how many if any Artists are recording much of anything at present. I saw a post on Music Xray that a Publisher was/is looking for new songs for Garth Brooks. Who knows for sure? My guess the Music Business is pretty dead right now and isn't going to change anytime soon. In the past I have seen requests by Record Labels wanting new Artists that write their own songs. One Publisher I found would only accept songs over the Net. Everybody wants a Push Button World."

Ray, you always make me laugh pretty hard with your "The music business is dead..." stuff. That's always a good one. The music business IS DEAD for a lot of people,just like the game of golf is dead to a lot of people to play that Masters. Doesn't mean the MULTI BILLION DOLLAR GOLF INDUSTRY OR THE MULTI BILLION DOLLAR ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY is "DEAD." It's not. It just has more people in it, and collecting more money, but paying out to fewer and fewer people. Just like pretty much all businesses. Because every single Burger place on earth is not making fortunes, doesn't mean THE ENTIRE BURGER INDUSTRY IS DEAD. McDonalds, Burger King, Sonic, etc. are doing just fine, as well as other places around the world. To say "It's all dead" is silly.

The days of "Mailing something into a publisher who the writers don't know personally or having no relationships with actual artists, or mechanisms to get inside those circles, are dead and always have been so. And yes, publishers still would be "looking for something for Garth Brooks" because his name goes onto a pitch sheet and everyone tries to get something to them. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to have access to him. Garth just released a new project that he has liscenced for his 3 year tour that is currently going on. So "looking for something for Garth" doesn't even seem to make much sense to him. But they try.

The music business is FAR from dead. We are all just having to find ways to exist in it as the old methods are dying off. There will be people that make money, although it may come in different forms, just like the old way of publishing, getting cuts and making money, have changed, More people are involved and some are doing quite well. A few at the top of the heap are doing incredible. The rich get richer. But those current rich people were once the poor, average people. Just have to be in the right place, right time, with the right product.

But believe me, if it is ALL DEAD, it is one of the loudest dead businesses that exist, because more people are involved, tours make more money, and more activity is going on. Quite a bit of activity for a dead thing.

Good laugh though. Thanks a lot.
MAB


The music business is clearly not dead, there are still artists who have amassed hundreds of millions. If I wanted to I could probably make a few hundred a week playing in small places around here. Alot of businesses you cant even do that. Try photography or drawing, or arts and crafts, and see if you make a few hundred a week at it.

Its close to dead for songwriters trying to pitch, only shot is to cowrite with somebody who goes out and performs. Or if lucky hook up with somebody who has a brand.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/05/19 03:19 PM.
#1158425 - 11/05/19 08:39 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Aw, Well,
I do get about 5 Music Catalogs at least one or more times a year so music from yesterday is still selling. Artists going in the Studio and recording something new seems to be dead. Of course I am not in a Music Center so I could be wrong. I do tune in the local radio to see what is new but as my former publisher used to say, it is mostly junk. Sorry!


Ray E. Strode
#1158428 - 11/05/19 09:41 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Well Ray, I don't know what to tell you as there is still plenty of recording going on. People have done more and more on home and smaller studios, and many have gone to recording on their phones. But about 100,000 songs are uploaded to the internet an hour and a large part of those are full recordings. So someone is doing something. We have an average of 50,000-150,000 people here at any one time trying to be involved in music and every week around 600 that move here or make regular trips. This is offset by around 1200 a week that move home or quit having lasted between 6 months to two years. So the amount of people going to record something new for SOMEONE ELSE is not much. Recording for themselves is quite heathy.

Radio gets a very small amount of songs and artists because they are programmed nationally, and what you might consider "junk" is probably not shared by people who are customers for that type of music. Easy to call what we don't like "junk." Just not our stuff. But as always, our opinions really don't matter at all.

Where we have moved to is a SELF CONTAINED WORLD. The era of the writer outside of the artist, is a thing that is mostly dead. Now everyone is a writer, everyone is an artist, and the interest in outside songs simply don't exist anymore. And as I've always said there are people succeeding There are people who succeed very well. There are constantly people creating their own niche, finding their own voice, and skipping radio, completely. they go to internet broadcasting, radio, podcasting.
It's a do it yourself world now.

MAB

#1158434 - 11/06/19 08:11 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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If you are a performer and have a good singing voice, then you can get heard, even if it is only in your own town. People look for entertainment and small towns rarely get any well known artist performing in their town, so local artist get to perform. Mostly they sing material written by others and heard on radio because that is what people recognize. Some will even write their own songs but don't sing them too often because they don't go over too well. Rarely do you find an artist that can do it all well, like sing, play and write. I'm getting heard through streaming services, some radio stations and churches, but not getting a pile of money, just enough to cover expenses. Still I am happy to a point, money is not everything, especially at my stage of life. Success is not always spelled out in how rich you are. I'm making ends meet, I'm fairly content and healthy which make me fairly happy. Would I like to have a hit song, sure I would but not because of money it would bring in, but satisfaction in knowing something I created made the charts. Recognition for something is what everyone strives for. It could be in any of the arts, sports, movies, dances, etc. We long to be accepted by our piers,and the world in general, but it does not make us any better than those that don't standout in life. A man and woman that raises a happy family are heroes in the eyes of their children, especially in this day and age when most marriages end in divorce. Even those that are rich and famous are not content or happy, they are always searching and reaching for more. More of what? They don't even know. Many people find contentment and happiness in just helping others. Many choose careers for that reason, like Doctors and nurses, sure some choose those careers for the money it pays, but some for the contentment of just helping. Teachers are the same, missionaries who spend their lives in poor countries to serve the people, not to get rich. We all have different desires and aims in life, some aim high and never make it and are disappointed, some aim low and make it and are happy and contented. Those that aim high and make it are rarely happy and content.

People that win the lottery are rarely satisfied, they keep playing trying to win again. Much needs more. Don't worry be happy. LOL

#1158436 - 11/06/19 08:39 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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In order to understand the era we are in, the era of "free" and "everyone can do it." we have to look back to see how we got here.

FEB.9, 1964.

Does that date "ring a bell" with any of you? It should.

That was the date four guys from Liverpool, England, did an American television show and changed the world. From the moment The BEATLES stepped onstage for the Ed Sullivan show, the world of music was completely different. Before that moment, there were WRITERS AND COMPOSERS, and ARTISTS. The Beatles changed the dynamic as the ARTISTS WERE NOW THE WRITERS. From that moment on, in rock, and pop, the two became mixed. And while there were still people who were primarily songwriters and still are today, mostly it is all self contained. That has continued every year since and American Country music was the last hold out.
Now that has changed too, as artists are signed AS WRITERS first, usually for a couple of years before they get their record deals. And often today, they have hit songs on other artists, before they themselves enter the recording realm.

When the downloading and Internet era hit in the 2000's, the money dissapeared from the "old ways" and were now done in different ways such as artist branding. The companies, taking a cue from the Rap and hip hop world, all developed companies that did every thing in house. The writing, recording, producing, videos, promotions, were all done inside or in close confederations with other companies in similar situations.

The trick now is to GET INSIDE on artists and companies ground floor. But the artists themselves are all WRITING songs at much younger ages, so the desire or need to look elsewhere is diminished. And when everything is RELATIVE, they are going to take their own art over someone else's.

So are some people still "selling music?" Absolutely. Are their tons of artists and songs going on out there? Yep. And some succeed, most don't. But we all STILL do it. I have NEVER met ONE HIT WRITER say that MONEY was the primary reason they got into music or songwriting. It;'s a desire to create. To get what is INSIDE of us to the OUTSIDE of us. Now everyone has the same opportunities on that. The INTERNET is the great equalizer. Every one is pretty equal. Some may be "MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS" to quote George Orwell, but that's where we are.

MAB

#1158440 - 11/06/19 10:13 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Well
Perhaps I should have said, The Recording Industry has shrunk. I used to suscribe to 3 Monthly Tip Sheets. All no longer exist.
Writers Digest used to publish a yearly Songwriter's Market. The last one was 2017. A new one is not available. As far as I know, there are several "Small" Publishers in Nashville that have Web Sites. I have sent some of them messages thru their Web Site inviting them to listen to some of my songs on the Web Site. I do have a lot of pretty good songs. No one has returned my offers. I don't know how many Recording Studios are in and around Nashville. I doubt if any of them are doing anything to speak of. I guess George Jones was the last Artist who liked to go in the Studio with all the musicians to record. Today a lot of them use some Music Program and spend oodles of time perfecting a recording. No problem. They know what they have.

Is anyone Touring. Not much I guess.
They do do Kereoke here on a somewhat regular basis. My daughter and her friend go pretty often. Perhaps that is the biggest thing out there today.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 11/06/19 10:16 AM.

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#1158441 - 11/06/19 10:24 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
If you are a performer and have a good singing voice, then you can get heard, even if it is only in your own town. People look for entertainment and small towns rarely get any well known artist performing in their town, so local artist get to perform. Mostly they sing material written by others and heard on radio because that is what people recognize. Some will even write their own songs but don't sing them too often because they don't go over too well. Rarely do you find an artist that can do it all well, like sing, play and write. I'm getting heard through streaming services, some radio stations and churches, but not getting a pile of money, just enough to cover expenses. Still I am happy to a point, money is not everything, especially at my stage of life. Success is not always spelled out in how rich you are. I'm making ends meet, I'm fairly content and healthy which make me fairly happy. Would I like to have a hit song, sure I would but not because of money it would bring in, but satisfaction in knowing something I created made the charts. Recognition for something is what everyone strives for. It could be in any of the arts, sports, movies, dances, etc. We long to be accepted by our piers,and the world in general, but it does not make us any better than those that don't standout in life. A man and woman that raises a happy family are heroes in the eyes of their children, especially in this day and age when most marriages end in divorce. Even those that are rich and famous are not content or happy, they are always searching and reaching for more. More of what? They don't even know. Many people find contentment and happiness in just helping others. Many choose careers for that reason, like Doctors and nurses, sure some choose those careers for the money it pays, but some for the contentment of just helping. Teachers are the same, missionaries who spend their lives in poor countries to serve the people, not to get rich. We all have different desires and aims in life, some aim high and never make it and are disappointed, some aim low and make it and are happy and contented. Those that aim high and make it are rarely happy and content.

People that win the lottery are rarely satisfied, they keep playing trying to win again. Much needs more. Don't worry be happy. LOL


Yeah local gigs are always available. I know a guy who has been doing it for 30 years. They are not very rewarding, alot of the time the "crowd" doesnt even know you are there.

I played one time in this cheap bar, and it was in a neighborhood that had alot of minorities. They usually didnt go to a rock bar like that, but one time there was this bus incident, where kids from this school got stalled and came to the bar for shelter why they waited for things to be fixed. Came in right in the middle of our gig, took a look at us, and I swear, they had this look on their face like, what is this the 1700's? I mean like they had no concept of somebody standing in front of a mic singing. Once the initial shock set in, they didnt look our way the entire two hours they were stuck there. I remember playing "when I saw her standing there".... they didnt acknowledge us, didnt clap or boo, it was like we were part of the wall. We might of done better that night if we had some records to scratch and did a DJ thin.

That was extreme, but alot of audiences are like that at these gigs. The places we used to find to do a gig weren't music venues, they were just bars and restaurants, yeah you could make 100 bucks maybe, but what killed it for me was the lack of interested people.

I was able to throw in originals too. So there was always a chance somebody would like something, Once in a while they'd ask where they could buy that song...at the time music wasnt as readily available as it is now. It was hard to sell a full cd too.

But it beats alot of other hobbies where there isnt much of a way to make money. I never tried to get into the music venues mostly because the majority of them didnt pay anything, they thought you were there to be seen. Yeah, you are, but the low end music venues have 5 people in them, and all of them are other musicians. It's like soundcloud or soundclick. Who goes there but other musicians?

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/06/19 10:48 AM.
#1158442 - 11/06/19 10:45 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
In order to understand the era we are in, the era of "free" and "everyone can do it." we have to look back to see how we got here.

FEB.9, 1964.

Does that date "ring a bell" with any of you? It should.

That was the date four guys from Liverpool, England, did an American television show and changed the world. From the moment The BEATLES stepped onstage for the Ed Sullivan show, the world of music was completely different. Before that moment, there were WRITERS AND COMPOSERS, and ARTISTS. The Beatles changed the dynamic as the ARTISTS WERE NOW THE WRITERS. From that moment on, in rock, and pop, the two became mixed. And while there were still people who were primarily songwriters and still are today, mostly it is all self contained. That has continued every year since and American Country music was the last hold out.
Now that has changed too, as artists are signed AS WRITERS first, usually for a couple of years before they get their record deals. And often today, they have hit songs on other artists, before they themselves enter the recording realm.

When the downloading and Internet era hit in the 2000's, the money dissapeared from the "old ways" and were now done in different ways such as artist branding. The companies, taking a cue from the Rap and hip hop world, all developed companies that did every thing in house. The writing, recording, producing, videos, promotions, were all done inside or in close confederations with other companies in similar situations.

The trick now is to GET INSIDE on artists and companies ground floor. But the artists themselves are all WRITING songs at much younger ages, so the desire or need to look elsewhere is diminished. And when everything is RELATIVE, they are going to take their own art over someone else's.

So are some people still "selling music?" Absolutely. Are their tons of artists and songs going on out there? Yep. And some succeed, most don't. But we all STILL do it. I have NEVER met ONE HIT WRITER say that MONEY was the primary reason they got into music or songwriting. It;'s a desire to create. To get what is INSIDE of us to the OUTSIDE of us. Now everyone has the same opportunities on that. The INTERNET is the great equalizer. Every one is pretty equal. Some may be "MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS" to quote George Orwell, but that's where we are.

MAB



I think the Beatles became immortalized by that TV appearance. If they started today, a small percentage of people would actually see it, back then there was nothing else. Very little on TV, but what was on, was huge. Probably every teenager saw it, or at least heard about it fast. Today, they could go on Jimmy Fallon, and it wouldnt be nearly as big.

They started at the right time, they are still bigger than any other artist in the world mostly because of that one show.

I dont think anybody gets into music to make money, mainly because it's not a very good way to make money. There are statistically hundreds and thousands of better ways to make more money than you can making music. Most people understand that and thats not what they do it for. And every Dad who ever had a kid in a rock band told them "Son, you will not be able to make a living playing music" You need a solid background, something to fall back on, and once you get that, you fall back...

For me performing was first, playing in a band was a way to make friends, maybe impress a girl who you couldnt talk to, finding an identity, something you could be good at, since I wasnt going to be the star quarterback" Money never entered the picture.

Once you get out into the real world, and have real life problems, and are forced to grow up, you realize my life has to change. I cant devote all my time to this, cause I wont get anywhere.

I had alot of bandmates who swore they'd be playing music for the rest of their lives. I probably was one of them. Yeah, Im still doing it, but im not really sure why.... lol

Especially rock n roll, its such a young mans game, country seems to allow you to age a little.

But to most of the biggest artists out there, money is the ONLY thing that matters. They have alot of crew and staff to keep employed, if they dont make money, they let alot of people down.

But nobody starts that way...as i said, it's a dumb way to make money! The only practical thing to do with music is to become a school teacher. You can actually make a living in music so to speak if you get a major in music.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/06/19 10:50 AM.
#1158444 - 11/06/19 01:08 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Ray,

I really dont konw where you get your information? Do you just make everything up or do you actually know ANYONE in the music industry except for some "publishers" you read about in some obscure music magazines? There are many many studios here and actually more opening all the time. There are not as many on Music Row, because they moved out to the BERRY HILL area, south of town starting about 20 years ago. There are more people recording than ever. But large studios have gone away mostly because no one needs the room to make records. And there are more home recording and smaller studios around. Musicians work nonstop in certain areas. There are more and more people that come here continually to record and then go home to other areas. Nashville is in a population BOOM and a great deal of that is due to "musical tourism."

So that hasn't stopped either. Neither have the video studios, the promotional companies, etc. As I have said what has died is the art of the "outside song". But the Internet has created a very false narrative on that as well. Everyone thinks they can "send something in" to publishers and have them pitch those songs. That is not how it works. Those publishers you are talking about are only "publishers" in name. They are "SONG PLUGGING" companies that are FEE FOR SERVICES. Also "film and television libraries" that make pitches to film and television industry, which are most often based in places like LA and New York, where they run headlong into THOSE cities inner workings.

As Fdmetiro says, live gigs are still around but they pay less and less money, once again because of THE ENORMOUS SUPPLY. That is what has really grown and why the dynamic of the entire business has shifted. When there SUPPLY outnumbers the DEMAND, you have less ability to make money out of it. But again, all of this is on the lower and middle rungs of the ladder. The people on the top of the ladder are doing quite well. And there are other people in the middle rungs that use the Internet to their advantages.

The differences have been ushred in cheifly by the "AMATEURIZATION of the music industry." When the main forums are REALITY TELEVISION SHOWS, AMERICAN IDOL, AMERICA'S GOT TALENT, BRITIAN'S GOT TALENT, AUSTRALIAS' GOT TALENT, THE VOICE,MASKED SINGER, etc. YOU TUBE, FACEBOOK, SPOTIFY, PANDORA, you have a GIGANTIC GLUT OF PRODUCT. That is what creates the inequity of people TRYING to do this and people WANTING TO DO THIS.

But studios, musicians, producers, arrangers, etc. There is NO SIGN OF SLOWING DOWN, OR EVEN SICKNESS in those things. There are MORE things going on than ever.

Sorry to contradict your beliefs, but when they are wrong , someone has to say something.
MAB

#1158447 - 11/06/19 03:26 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Um, Well,
So Marc, name some Artists in the Studio right now doing something. I do look on the TAXI Web site to see what they are looking for. That has also gone blank. Maybe small Artists are doing something in their Computers if anything.

But, name me some Big Releases now that are going anywhere. I look, I listen, but find very little. If there is much of anything it it isn't showing up on the Radio. When the Songwriter's Market is no longer Published it says volumes.

Like I said, who is recording anything to speak of?????


Ray E. Strode
#1158448 - 11/06/19 04:14 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Ray, I really have no idea what you are talking about. Pretty much every one has been on tour throughout the summer and fall. They record during the holidays and also will have Christmas albums coming out. They do some recording through the year and everyon is now gearing up for next year. In addition there are hundreds of artists that will be at the country radio seminar in January. I don't have their schedules but a quick drive up and down music row and over in Berry hill you will find dozens of studios like OCEAN WAY, THE PARLOR, pretty full. Blackbird, and other studios are also full.

As far as artists, Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney. Brad Paisley, Fla. Ga. Line, Luke Bryan, Zac Brown Band,Little Big Town, Jason Aldeen, Dierk's Bently, Maren Morris, Carrie Underwood, Kacee Musgraves, Luke Combs, will all have new product coming out. Garth and Taylor Swift have just released. There are plenty more than you and I don't even know yet, but the release season will come after the first of the year. Those will come out from Feb. into March and tours and fair season will begin after that. Pretty much every label has activity going on in town, but eveyr thing in this town winds down to the public in Novemenber. It's the final quarter. The CMA's will be on tonight and you could watch that and get an idea of what is going on.

In town, the award season brings the ASCAP, BMI and SESAC awards. That signifiies the end of the year and everything starts gearing up for next year. That;s why the Frank Brown songwriters festival is held starting tomorrow every year. About 185 NAshville writers are going down for that.

You always have this extrodinarily misinformed idea that everyone does the same thing at the same time and that is just not the way any of this works. People are in and out of the studio all the time, year round. They are touring when they are not recording. As far as what is "going anywhere" that is a pretty stupid question and you can do a google search to find what the charts are doing. Unless you don't believe those either. You see, you always have an extrodinarily strange idea of how the music industry works and doesn't work. It's like you get information ten or fifteenth hand and just sort of make up what you don't actually know.
The artists and their management don't release information on where they are recording or any of the schedules. They don't want studios besieged by fans or people trying to insert themselves into places they don't belong.

I don't know either. I am not in the middle of it by design. But I know people who are involved with many of the groups and artists I named. Many musicians. Many business people. I think you tend to live in a very small part of the world and I don't know what radio you listen to. So I don'[t know what it is that you hear or don't hear. But since mainstream radio plays only a very small list of any genre about 18 songs at any one time, there is probably not as much on that but it doesn't mean that there aren't people "going somewhere."

But I guess in "RAYWORLD" nothing is going on and that is fine. You can keep believing in whatever you want to believe in. Not quite informed, but you can believe in it.
MAB

#1158449 - 11/06/19 04:25 PM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Kevin Emmrich Online content
Kevin Emmrich  Online Content


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Crozet, VA
Ray: Feel free to google: "Albums released in 2019" or "Country albums released in 2019" and you will see that there is a lot out there. By the way, 20 years ago or even 40, there were 100 albums on the Hot Country 100. In 2019 there are still 100 albums on the list.
Things are happening.

Marc: have fun at Frank Brown. Philboy has been working on his fingerpicking technique and he is getting quite proficient at that! Sounding pretty dang good.


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1158459 - 11/07/19 07:54 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Thanks Kevin,

You know, I wish you would tell some of these guys about the Frank Brown festival.The writers that are there. The really cool stuff that goes on. I would wish all of them could make a trip down and see the great times and shows the "real" songwriters do. I know you've seen it and been a part of it. I'll keep an eye out for Phillboy this weekend. I'm sure he'll pop up.

MAB

#1158463 - 11/07/19 10:35 AM Re: Thought Music Doesn't Sell [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
A lot of Song Services that want you to pay them to pitch your songs. As I said, the Tip Sheets are out of business and I'm not paying anyone to pitch my songs. Looking for some time all I see is a lot of action with little results. But Marc, if you know someone that is looking for some good songs send it along and I will point them to my Web Site.

The last songs I sent was to Rustic Records. I heard nothing back. It appears nothing happening there either. So be it.


Ray E. Strode

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