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#1157384 - 10/06/19 11:46 PM What has happened to JPF  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,118
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,118
This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.

It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.

It was a fun and caring place.

Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.

Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and
it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.

Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.

I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.

Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.

I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.

As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.

It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol

God Bless to all,

Roy

ps. It is Glynda Duncan who lots of us know...

She used to have little gatherings at her house for JPF members.

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 10/07/19 07:19 PM.

'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1157386 - 10/07/19 04:31 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
North Alabama
Political correctness has now replaced morality so... there’s no longer any such thing as common sense. The world is far too small for so many varied minority ideologies, and no... I'm not just talking about race or sex. The premise of "political correctness" is that everyone should be stirred in the same pot and mingle peacefully. This, of course, is the antithesis of the natural order. How can humanity strive for anything greater if a politically imposed melding pot is our common ground? The real question is, how did freedom, individuality, and national pride become such foreign concepts?

I don’t know Glenda, but I'm sure everyone that does has her in their prayers...


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157387 - 10/07/19 06:05 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
North Alabama
This is where I really get up on my soapbox so, just in case anyone is missing the point. I’m sure Roy is absolutely right… pre-“Political Correctness” I have no doubt JPF was a great place for musicians to congregate socially and peacefully, swap licks and ideas, and enjoy a certain musical camaraderie without fear of judgment. In fact, that’s what I personally miss about the 70’s - 80’s… back then, people were fearlessly trying to discover what the limits truly are. However, since everything under the sun has now become “politicized”, and in some cases even “thought” has become a matter of law, we are all now expected to accept and conform to broad based psycho-social norms rather than choose. This is what happens when you give government the power to dictate morality, you lose your freedom and voice as an individual. Now, anyone who doesn’t conform or disagrees is a bigot… I prefer my freedom to live as I choose, and my common sense to respect everyone else’s freedom to do the same.


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157389 - 10/07/19 09:04 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,570
couchgrouch Online content
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couchgrouch  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,570
JPF was great as long as you ran with the herd. It's still the same. That's why no one said anything about Stan's lyrics way back when. And that's not really a criticism of JPF, it's just life.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1157391 - 10/07/19 09:39 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 781
Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 781
Conover, North Carolina, USA
I still find JPF very useful. I have had great advice from people here regarding tracks I have posted. I have implemented quite a few of their suggestions and am very grateful for them. There is a lot of noise on the site, but that can be ignored.

#1157393 - 10/07/19 09:56 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,279
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Aw, so,
Ok, it's back to music again. A great song like they don't record anymore you may want to check out
THANK GOD AND GREYHOUND YOU'RE GONE by Roy Clark. Google it.


Ray E. Strode
#1157396 - 10/07/19 11:18 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,394
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Posts: 1,394
I enjoy the conversation, I dont even mind political conversation. We are no different than the billions of other onliners who like to shoot the breeze.

I think music is the common thread for us all here. I think MOST people here have hit their stride musically or songwriting wise. And they assume they wont get any worse, or wont get any better. Even the best songwriters usually get worse over time, those magical hits dont come around or stay around for long.

It's just nature. You can only write, and especially record so many songs, and if you post 3-4 in a row, you're probably done for a while. So what do you do in the meantime? You talk.

I wasnt a part of that old school "family" so to speak say 10 years ago, i came and went..by choice or not by choice... lol, but it seems the people lamenting the good ole days are guilty as well. Instead of complaining "Ahh Mike Dunbar is not here any more, or Sub is not here to teach us any more, why not make it that way again?

MAJPFGA Make JPF GREAT AGAIN! lol

But it's kind of hurtful to say that the new people are not as good as the old people.

Also, the critiques and reviews are pointless, because nobody is ever gonna say what they really think. And thats fair, nobody wants to hurt feelings, but, then it becomes a different kind of forum

it is what it is. If you want it to be about making friends and having a place to hang out, we got that. If you want it to be about music, make it about music.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/07/19 11:46 AM.
#1157398 - 10/07/19 12:27 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,044
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,044
California
Originally Posted by Roy Cooper
This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.

It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.

It was a fun and caring place.

Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.

Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and
it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.

Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.

I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.

Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.

I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.

As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.

It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol

God Bless to all,

Roy




I agree with Roy 100%


The place feels pretty toxic to me right now, and I can't imagine it will get any better with an election year coming up.

I will probably join the legion of folks that used to reside here but now just rarely pop their head in anymore. Just for my own survival. Maybe it's me, I'm what's toxic and I'm projecting. Doesn't change the need for distance from this place.

Y'all enjoy your politics.


Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 12:30 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157399 - 10/07/19 12:48 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,085
John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,085
PA
One of my son's favorite lines... "It is what it is". Change is ever ocurring. Some people will move on, while others join. Most of us reminisce of better days. Though I have an idea we complained about things back then. I 'm definitely not as involved with JPF how I once was. But then, my priorities have changed. I feel your disappointment Roy.

Best, John smile

#1157400 - 10/07/19 12:56 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 781
Gavin Sinclair Online content
Top 500 Poster
Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
Top 500 Poster

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 781
Conover, North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Roy Cooper
This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.

It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.

It was a fun and caring place.

Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.

Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and
it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.

Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.

I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.

Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.

I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.

As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.

It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol

God Bless to all,

Roy




I agree with Roy 100%


The place feels pretty toxic to me right now, and I can't imagine it will get any better with an election year coming up.

I will probably join the legion of folks that used to reside here but now just rarely pop their head in anymore. Just for my own survival. Maybe it's me, I'm what's toxic and I'm projecting. Doesn't change the need for distance from this place.

Y'all enjoy your politics.


Mike

Mike, I hope you won't stay away completely. I've kind of come to rely on your generous advice on the tracks I post. It's been an education for me. smile

#1157401 - 10/07/19 01:36 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,044
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,044
California
Thanks, Gavin, I appreciate that. smile

In an earlier post you said, "There is a lot of noise on the site, but that can be ignored."

If that were entirely true, there would be no problem. For some (or maybe it's just me..) just knowing this "noise" is there (and getting noisier) is problematic.

And it's more because it is a specific kind of noise. A noise composed, at times, of people lowering their masks and being monsters. Utterly drooling ugly sarcasm..dark dark things..The Bible used as a vehicle for venomous anger..The Id...The reptilian brain lashing out...

Just knowing this is a house with a room like that..is problematic for me.

I can be like Kyle MacLachlan's character in Blue Velvet and be drawn into that kind of darkness, but I get a feeling of being in a very dangerous place. SO then recoil.

And try to stay away from that room, but know it's there...most of us are curious creatures..

It's also a little like the knowledge of the tortured child in a dark basement room in Ursula Le Guin's short story "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas." The citizens know that room is there and needs to be for there to be their Utopia..and perhaps we here need our various scapegoats as well..

Still some have to leave that Utopia..They lose the good that came with it, for sure..but maybe get to hold onto their sense of decency..

I struggle with these thoughts..



Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 01:50 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157402 - 10/07/19 02:05 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
North Alabama
Well... so much for the liberal, all inclusive, "Why can’t we all just get along", self edifying, above it all utopian dream... Lol

You know what this place is truly lacking? The courage of its conviction to actually BE EQUAL and INCLUSIVE, and face equality for what it TRULY IS.

Disagreement should be expected AND RESPECTED! Be Yourself! I Will!

However, you're right to fear any political agenda that seeks to force equality down your throat!

Last edited by JAPOV; 10/07/19 02:28 PM.

JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157403 - 10/07/19 02:37 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,085
John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Posts: 9,085
PA
This website was created for music lovers - I'm pretty sure. I hate to see it drift from its main purpose – which is music talk. There are enough political forums / sites. The rub is that songwriting includes many issues, including politics. So, it's a double-edged sword. Often the lyrical context becomes more of a political debate (priority), than the musical / songwriting evaluation (only secondary). As far as political discussions/ arguments, I’ve never seen any resolve through debate. Both sides leave the discussion with their viewpoints unchanged.

John smile

#1157404 - 10/07/19 02:54 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 376
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Posts: 376
North Alabama
Perhaps you're right John.... We should all just write gender neutral love songs for teenagers and leave politics to Hollywood...


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157405 - 10/07/19 03:00 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,549
Mark Kaufman Offline
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Posts: 6,549
Minneapolis
I feel like someone just opened my front door, shamed me for feeling what I don't feel, then slammed the door and yelled "I refuse to hear your response!" Ouch! grin

People get upset about a lot of things, but other people's thoughts and feelings usually tops the list. What one member sees as a shocking lack of caring and compassion, another sees as the typical behavior of an opposing political belief, while another considers it all fine and well, no issue at all.

I think it only gets toxic when we call others out, as if with an expectation of bringing them into our own viewpoint through criticism or reprimand. That's not going to happen, ever, for anyone.

The way I see it, you should go ahead and talk about anything you like, but don't be surprised if your opinion triggers or offends others, because it always does. Always. If what you want out of this place is arguments and triggered people complaining about toxicity, stick around in the General Forums and yak about who's to blame.

But if you really want other people to feel what you feel, post a song. It works a lot better, and people can't argue back unless it's with a trombone, or something.

#1157406 - 10/07/19 03:17 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,044
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Good Grief!!! Drama everywhere I go! If Marc Allen Barnett is here as well then I will seriously just quit all this juvenile crap! WHERE ARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY AND ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN SONGWRITING AROUND HERE!?!?


That was you talking a few months ago, Tony.

You took me basically saying that a lack of civility in political discussions scares me away and turned it into a liberal vs. conservative thing? That to me is like..if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Same with John's last post. Where exactly does he say, "We should all just write gender neutral love songs for teenagers and leave politics to Hollywood..." That's you, Tony, not John.

I too hate to see this place drift from it's main purpose..


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157407 - 10/07/19 03:30 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 781
Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Aw, so,
Ok, it's back to music again. A great song like they don't record anymore you may want to check out
THANK GOD AND GREYHOUND YOU'RE GONE by Roy Clark. Google it.

That's a great song LOL.

#1157409 - 10/07/19 03:52 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 175
Perry Neal Crawford Offline
Serious Contributor
Perry Neal Crawford  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2016
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As a lyricist I find the bantering to be fodder for songs relevant to current events, circumstances, and trends. Christy Moore lamented the end of Margaret Thatcher's stint as Prime Minister of England because she was fodder for great Irish protest and parody songs. When we look back at our nation's history of changing ideologies it begs the question,"Which came first, the opinion or the songs?"

#1157410 - 10/07/19 04:01 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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JaneK Offline
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I would like to see more discussions about songwriting on the forum - I feel I have a ways to go before I run out of steam - even though I am older I am just starting out in music, recording and songwriting (at least the proper structure).

I feel my best years are ahead of me because soon I will have more time to devote to the craft and so need feedback and help from songwriting forums like JP folks.

I have met some great people here and hope this forum continues being primarily about songwriting, music production and everything related to that.

#1157412 - 10/07/19 04:27 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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JAPOV Offline
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Lol... From my perspective you and Marc actually have a lot in common Michael. You both agree that politics should stay out of the arena while denying that everything is politically motivated at the same time... What’s funny is that I responded to John out of respect! HE'S RIGHT!


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157413 - 10/07/19 04:38 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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There was some initial confusion with me as to whether it was Glenda or Glynda that had a stroke.

I didn't know a Glenda, so figured I would wait until it was more clear, but that never happened.

I've only been here since 2006 and so maybe Glenda was more active before my time..

Anyway, that's why I waited..I wanted to know specifically who I was addressing. Unfortunately, it's still not clear. Dave called her Glynda.. Many of us know Glynda...




Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/08/19 08:31 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157416 - 10/07/19 04:46 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: JAPOV]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Lol... From my perspective you and Marc actually have a lot in common Michael. You both agree that politics should stay out of the arena while denying that everything is politically motivated at the same time... What’s funny is that I responded to John out of respect! HE'S RIGHT!



Do I deny that everything is politically motivated? Thanks for letting me know what I think.

If you were responding to John out of respect, I am not sure he took it that way, with so much sarcasm in there. I sure did not.

You have the freedom here to say just about anything you want, in any thread you want amd I am certainly not saying "don't be yourself." Just it gets scary for me when civil war, guns, how liberals are the enemy, etc..is either the insinuation or the topic. This is scary talk to me. It may become reality, but I may need to face that reality in my own time, in my own way. And so where's MY freedom of speech to express that without it being broken down into yet another political diatribe?

Working on music takes enough out of me. To respond properly and with civility to political stuff is VERRRRRRRRRRRY time-consuming and draining for me.. I have to put food on the table.

It really comes down to that...

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 04:48 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157417 - 10/07/19 04:56 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I feel like someone just opened my front door, shamed me for feeling what I don't feel, then slammed the door and yelled "I refuse to hear your response!" Ouch! grin




I hear you, Mark.

I was raised Catholic by an alcoholic turned religious fanatic and a mother who was a compulsive gambler (and I inherited those problems) so "shame" has been one of the main currencies that defined much of my emotional life for a long time, unfortunately, and I welcomed feeling shamed over this. Basically for letting my indecisiveness over "was it Glynda or Glenda" who had the stroke.." keep me from acting.

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman

The way I see it, you should go ahead and talk about anything you like, but don't be surprised if your opinion triggers or offends others, because it always does. Always. If what you want out of this place is arguments and triggered people complaining about toxicity, stick around in the General Forums and yak about who's to blame.
.


I agree, Most issues are very complex. It's easy to find scapegoats.

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman


But if you really want other people to feel what you feel, post a song. It works a lot better, and people can't argue back unless it's with a trombone, or something.


LOL...Trombone is my argumentative instrument of choice, especially paired with a reedier sound, like an oboe.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/09/19 12:47 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157419 - 10/07/19 05:02 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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JAPOV Offline
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Well, thank you for that permission Mike, I appreciate it. Now, just out of curiosity, what’s stopping you from telling us what you’re truly afraid of and why? I'd like to know...


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157420 - 10/07/19 05:07 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: JAPOV]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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it gets scary for me when civil war, guns, how liberals are the enemy, etc..is either the insinuation or the topic. This is scary talk to me.

Add to that how the Bible gets interpreted (by some here) as to being FOR an all-out battle between liberals and conservatives..

THAT scares me. Look no deeper..

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 05:12 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157421 - 10/07/19 05:25 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Well, I would say that’s healthy Mike... In fact, we have that in common! Every time I watch the news I'm reminded of Armageddon and how everything written in the Bible about the "last days" is either happening or about to happen. There’s never before been a time in history when absolutely every word of Revelation seems plausible and easy to understand. But, as a Christian, that’s both good and bad news...


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157424 - 10/07/19 07:31 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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New Hampshire
When I joined here, I was welcomed in a wonderful community and made friends who really are the reason I have grown in music and I am so thankful and love each and every one for it and my heart doesn't forget very easily, and that is just the sentimental gal that I am. We can lament, but we must be good in our remembering...I remember threads that went on and on with folks arguing a viewpoint, I remember a few friends leaving this site because of their viewpoints and that was way back when....in the "Good Old Days"....YES, it is Glynda and I remember Friday nights in the chat with Glyn, Polly, Ben Willis, Night just having so much fun and laughing. I remember Stevie B. making fun of me because I was recording in the shower. I remember Wendy and myself laughing over both of us recording in the bathroom and trying to find a quiet moment away from our kids. I remember when Calvin had the song with the mushrooms and we were all giggling about what he was on when he made it LOL! I remember when Mark Kaufman posted a song that blew me away that even 'til this day I play it for people and proclaim it the best song and that it should have been famous because it is so ding dang good. I remember when I had no music and I just started here and Ben Willis offered to play a guitar track for a girl he knew nothing about who was really a fish out of water. I remember people who were very annoying, or posted too much, I remember lovely people and crying over someone like Tampa Stan who I never even met before. Brian has picked me up and given me a dose of wisdom and set me back on the path more times than I can say. I sat here and rocked my baby to sleep to John's beautiful piano music, you have all touched my life and I don't even know you, but you matter to me and there will always be turmoil and good and bad times, there always was.....but we are a family and we regroup and come back together, don't forget where you laid down some musical roots and come back to visit from time to time....you are my JPF family.


http://tammyjann.com/
https://soundcloud.com/tamsnumber4
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1038504

Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it...
Professor Albus Dumbledore




#1157425 - 10/07/19 07:36 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: TamsNumber4]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Human nature is what it is and with occasional aberrations, always has been.
My suggestion is accept that and move on with your own life in a manner that suits you.

I overlooked the post about Glenda. Will fix that.

Martin

#1157435 - 10/07/19 08:57 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Beautifully said, Tammy. Being a Johnny-come-lately here, I don't know some of those people, but I definitely get what you are saying and feeling.

#1157474 - 10/08/19 01:06 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Yeah, the fact that many dont know Glynda kind of describes the tensions by say the OP.

I remember Barry, poor guy, he wasnt treated with the same reverence, as some of the others, which is a niche kind of thing.

RIP BARRY

It's not... NOT... a good forum because people who were here sooner say its not.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/08/19 01:07 PM.
#1157533 - 10/09/19 10:58 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Japov, yep I'm still around and if you want to leave that up to you.

Politics is in everything and that is the actual problem. It is EVERYWHERE and so it becomes just another incredibly boring place where all people do is yell at each other. Fine. That's part of the freedom of speech. But people also have the power to IGNORE anything they don't care about. And if you notice the dropping numbers and the dropping amount of posts and interests, and then view the corrolation between things getting more and more political, doesn't take a brain doctor to figure it out.

Like always anyone can write ANYTHING they want. But in a world where people have about a ten second attention span to begin with, if you are going to be jus t another political commentator, or just another mindless diatribe, don't be surprised that you get less and less interest.

MAB

#1157536 - 10/09/19 11:25 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
This website was created for music lovers - I'm pretty sure. I hate to see it drift from its main purpose – which is music talk. There are enough political forums / sites. The rub is that songwriting includes many issues, including politics. So, it's a double-edged sword. Often the lyrical context becomes more of a political debate (priority), than the musical / songwriting evaluation (only secondary). As far as political discussions/ arguments, I’ve never seen any resolve through debate. Both sides leave the discussion with their viewpoints unchanged.

John smile


Yes, all songs regardless of the content have political vibes to them. Even a typical boy/girl song, the ole "I dont have money to buy you things...but, my love is true etc" That tells alot about where that person stands. He could be a victim of a bad economy, he could have struggling parents, and he longs to be part of this girls world, and the guys hes competing with have it better. And depending on when it's written, it could reflect whats happening in the world. Without mentioning anything about politics or the reasons for it happening, it tells whats happening. A love song during WW1 would tell more about those times more than a love song now.

And Pete Seeger once said that all songs are protest songs. It's kind of true. Yakety Yak dont talk back, is a kid protesting how his parents run the house.

There are plenty of ways to interject politics into a song, without ever mentioning it.

But I think here, we have some hard core political people, who are probably more into politics than music.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 11:33 AM.
#1157537 - 10/09/19 11:29 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Japov, yep I'm still around and if you want to leave that up to you.

Politics is in everything and that is the actual problem. It is EVERYWHERE and so it becomes just another incredibly boring place where all people do is yell at each other. Fine. That's part of the freedom of speech. But people also have the power to IGNORE anything they don't care about. And if you notice the dropping numbers and the dropping amount of posts and interests, and then view the corrolation between things getting more and more political, doesn't take a brain doctor to figure it out.

Like always anyone can write ANYTHING they want. But in a world where people have about a ten second attention span to begin with, if you are going to be jus t another political commentator, or just another mindless diatribe, don't be surprised that you get less and less interest.

MAB


Yes, and the conundrum is people come here BECAUSE they are bored. I would guess they dont get much relief from boredom talking about boring things!

But I could be wrong. I get a kick out of some of the non sense. But, i have started more MUSICAL and SONGWRITING threads than anybody I see here. ALl the music forum and songwriting forum topics are usually started by me, but nobody really cares about it.

Id love the forum to be about all songwriting, but we have to remember, Brian probably gets more traffic and hits on some threads due to the politics and other topics, combined with the music, than he would if it was music alone. So it draws people here, maybe they stay in the same spot too long but...

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 11:31 AM.
#1157538 - 10/09/19 12:07 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Fde,

I think saying boredom is why people come here may be over-generalized?

I mean..I have a million things I NEED to do that don't bore me in the least, but I choose to respond to you, cuz in this very moment, for me, THIS is THEE most important thing for me to do..

And if you look at the activity here around a decade ago, this was a thriving community of folks who were mostly sharing their music and lyrics with one another. Avidly and with great intent. It didn't seem like it was out of boredom, but that learning and growth were happening with this process..as well as the occasional strutting..

So I would argue that perhaps "boredom" was less the thing awhile back, for sure.

Plenty of arguments and disagreements, sure, but mostly about music. I remember starting a thread questioning if "keep or sweep" was really helpful (I argued it was an ego-driven activity that deprived the original author of discovery and growth and actually re-enforced poor writing), and it got pretty heated. But it did not lead to anything that made enemies out of various members like political topics seem to do. Maybe not enemies..but it is an alienating experience, for sure..at least for me..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/09/19 12:17 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157539 - 10/09/19 12:16 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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JAPOV Offline
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Speaking for myself, I need a legitimate reason/motivation to write. If the general consensus is that music should not reflect reality then fine... I have no fucking use for it!


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1157540 - 10/09/19 12:20 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Fde,

I think saying boredom is why people come here may be over-generalized?

And if you look at the activity here around a decade ago, this was a thriving community of folks who were mostly sharing their music and lyrics with one another. Avidly and with great intent. It didn't seem like it was out of boredom, but that learning and growth were happening with this process..as well as the occasional strutting..

So I would argue that perhaps "boredom" was less the thing awhile back, for sure.

Plenty of arguments and disagreements, sure but mostly about music. I remember starting a thread questioning if "keep or sweep" was really helpful (I argued it was an ego-driven activity that deprived the original author of discovery and growth and actually re-enforced poor writing), and it got pretty heated. But it did not lead to anything that made enemies out of various members like political topics seems to do. Maybe not enemies..but it is an alienating experience, for sure..at least for me..

Mike


Maybe over generalized, but I recall mundane arguments as far back as 10 years ago. I think it would still be that way if not for facebook, Im betting that MOST people who used to fill their time here, go to facebook now instead, and not for any other reason.

I also think forums like this used to have a promise of success in music to them. I recall some people posting, and the people who visited the site viewed them as some kind of music business God, who could catapult them into a music career.

When the music business went to hell, and money is not made on music any more, and almost every artist writes their own songs today, the window of opportunity diminsihed and so did enthusiasm.

You can play the game for a few years, but suddenly realize nothing is happening, perhaps people take up gardening instead.

I also realized along time ago how cliquey it used to be, I once posted a song that had the word 'baby" in it. a few times, which i dont know why we can never use that word again, but somebody critiqued it, as being too generic and weak etc, which was fine, it was a rocker, and i didnt get upset. BUT, that same person went into another person thread, and PRAISED their song, which had more trite non sense lyrics than I could ever dream up myself.

It was obvious to me then, it was a clique based thing. I dont see the cliques as involved these days. Which i think in someways makes the forum better than it used to be

But who knows, this thread has also served a purpose for many.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 12:22 PM.
#1157541 - 10/09/19 12:28 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Speaking for myself, I need a legitimate reason/motivation to write. If the general consensus is that music should not reflect reality then fine... I have no fucking use for it!


I've never been much interested in general consensus when it comes to self expression, but as far as music goes, I like it to express absolutely anything whatsoever, not just reality (whatever the general consensus on that is, anyway). To me, if music takes me into an absolute fantasy world, that's fantastic. And music that accurately sheds light on a current topic is great, too. But the freedom to make a song for either reason is really important to me...I don't like only expressing meat and potatoes facts...I like painting pictures.

#1157542 - 10/09/19 12:29 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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I have discovered a pitfall in being open to other ideas. Because of some of the links I have clicked on from people here, Facebook now thinks I'm a right wing firebrand and has started slamming we with suggestions for sites/posts/books full of the kind of stuff people like that presumably spend their time on. Scary stuff. It's easy to see why these folks are permanently angry and believe the kind of things they do if this is all they see. I'm going to have to go and click on posts from Bernie or something to restore some sanity LOL. Either that or do the sensible thing and not get my news from social media and wacky conspiracy rage factory websites, when I can go to Reuters or the BBC instead.

#1157543 - 10/09/19 12:43 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Originally Posted by Roy Cooper
This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.

It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.

It was a fun and caring place.

Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.

Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and
it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.

Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.

I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.

Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.

I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.

As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.

It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol

God Bless to all,

Roy

ps. It is Glynda Duncan who lots of us know...

She used to have little gatherings at her house for JPF members.





I have to respectfully disagree with your premise. There is a total of ONE thread that started out political, with some inspired satire. cool

ONE.

There are literally dozens of threads on music, songwriting, et cetera. The fact that they don't get many hits is purely do to our herd mentality. People surf the site and see a thread that has a lot of views and have to see what's in it. Simple as that.

Lamenting the current state of the site is understandable, but I would attribute it to attrition more than disinterest.



Regards,


Bob

#1157547 - 10/09/19 01:19 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
I have discovered a pitfall in being open to other ideas. Because of some of the links I have clicked on from people here, Facebook now thinks I'm a right wing firebrand and has started slamming we with suggestions for sites/posts/books full of the kind of stuff people like that presumably spend their time on. Scary stuff. It's easy to see why these folks are permanently angry and believe the kind of things they do if this is all they see. I'm going to have to go and click on posts from Bernie or something to restore some sanity LOL. Either that or do the sensible thing and not get my news from social media and wacky conspiracy rage factory websites, when I can go to Reuters or the BBC instead.


Gavin,

Check out the Netflix doc "The Great Hack" which poses the premise that Cambridge Analytica in conjunction with Facebook swung the 2016 Presidential election in a similar manner to what you described. By using FB data (such as what links you clicked as well as questionnaires, some disguised as games) to target undecided voters in swing states like Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, etc. and then fed those folks pro Trump ads.

They make a convincing argument that a net of under 80,000 "swung" votes in three key States did the trick.

Fascinating stuff..


Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/09/19 01:23 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157548 - 10/09/19 01:58 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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I was listening to the BBC World Service last night and they had a report from Latvia, where the Russians are mounting a relentless misinformation campaign. One of their aims is to convince the sizeable Russian minority that their Latvian neighbors are mostly Nazis. The reporter selected one story propagated by the Russian backed "news" agency that Mein Kampf was the most popular book in Latvia, surpassing Harry Potter. No bookstores in the country sell it. It had been checked out of the national library system about 120 times compared to about 25,000 times for Harry Potter books. Ridiculous, but not a whole lot more ridiculous than the lies that they spread here and during the Brexit debate in the UK. This stuff is all around us.

#1157551 - 10/09/19 03:54 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Hi Gang:

As most of you know... I've had an excused absence (health issues) and have been away for much longer than I wanted to be. Over the years, JPF has become a source for many things... a social media outlet of sorts and a place to let folks know you are still alive and kicking. It's also a place where some really nice people "hang out" and because most of us are of one political stripe or another, we have had the discussion about the need for a Politics Forum" and I think Brian even considered it before letting the idea expire. Maybe it's time to bring it up again when Brian is recovered from his latest adventure(s) in surgery. (I'm still praying... 'cause I dread the thought of the loss of a friend... not to mention the loss of yet another site where music and songwriting are the common cloth that binds us together.)

Other than that, I too, have a certain disdain for Political Correctness. I don't want to be told what to think, write or say... within the bounds of my Christian up-bringing. I do want to be inclusive and your Religion, Politics or the lack of interest in either... do not represent a barrier for me to prefer having you as a friend rather than an adversary.

When we are not "face to face"... up close and personal... it is a bit easier to "get snarky" and sound off in opposition to somebody's comment that "ruffles our feathers." All I'm suggesting is that we take time to at least count to ten, walk away for an hour or two, then come back and state your opinion without attacking the party who said it. Because of the sad state of the Music Biz in general, we all need as many "friends" as we can gather.

In all my years (and I am nearly as old as Willie Nelson) I have never convinced anyone to come around to "my way of thinking"... unless they were already in that frame of mind. (Eloquent speaker that I am! LOL!)

Let's be friends if we can and concentrate on songwriting and music... if at all possible.

Love to most of you... and spankings for the rest! LOL!

----West Mayberry Dave

#1157553 - 10/09/19 04:51 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Well, there were tons of political discussions back then, and they weren't any friendlier. There were religious against atheists, religion verse religions, fundamentalists verses Born Agains, Canadians and other countries, against Americans in political wars. Left against Right which is always here.

I think what the originals are complaining about most, is that those people have jumped ship.

I cant even count all the bickers and fights there was back then, I mostly read them from afar. Had to be dozens of off beaten rants, thread snatchers, guided attacks, and of course, there was some bad stuff too....

I said before Facebook took away from here considerably. Cause this was in a sense a prototype of social media.

if its the friendly faces you wish to see again, go track them down and connect with them.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 05:01 PM.
#1157562 - 10/09/19 11:25 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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glynda Offline
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Princeton Texas
Yes it is me..glyn..glynda...the same ole' glyn....glenda...health issue's off and on have pretty much kept me away...was feeling really great..working on new lyrics...will post soon...felt better than have felt in years..then wham....all this happened in a month's time..2 weeks apart...was almost in a coma when my sister came by to check on me..couldn't walk white as a sheet..in one nights time lost a lot of blood...had to have a blood transfusion with 3 units of blood and 3 bleeding ulcers and other places bleeding..Dr burned the ulcers etc to stop the bleeding...the mini stroke was minor had a 4cm bleed in the Center of my forehead...and that little helicopter ride that I don't even remember cost $61,000.00...plus 4 ambulance rides all in September...no September was not a good month for me..feeling better today and getting stronger..hope to be back full time soon..tks to everyone..love you guys so very very much..all of you have helped me so much and I will never ever forget it.....love glyn

#1157563 - 10/09/19 11:38 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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glynda Offline
glynda  Offline

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Princeton Texas
PS
And I still love it here..I pop in and out all the time and have heard and read many many great songs and lyrics...love it

#1157594 - 10/10/19 07:36 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Aug 2002
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Everett Adams Offline
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Everett Adams  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
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,NL Canada
Glad you are alright now. I hope you had insurance to cover all that expense. Welcome back.

#1157595 - 10/10/19 09:05 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Dec 2000
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John Voorpostel Offline
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John Voorpostel  Offline
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As a long time member I can only say that things were different from time to time. Better or worse implies a value judgement that would pertain only to me

And any descent into argument takes place primarily in the general thread, leaving lots of room elsewhere for creative exchanges.Brian set that up long ago to give folks a place to exhange other views. The issue as has been pointed out ad nauseum is that far too often there is no respect for others POV which then somehow gets personal or out of control

Maybe as "artists" folks are far too passionate about what they believe and present their views with too much gusto...dunno. Maybe people feel that in a debate\argument that their points are worthless and they get defensive...dunno.

One solution Brian tried was to ban such conversations and simply eliminate posts that strayed.

But human nature being what it is allowed it to creep back.

Then again maybe it is simply a reflection of the times we live in. A wise man once said that a man's virtues are his own, his vices simply a sign of the times. We do know that this polarized environment is just a microcosm of society today.

Whatever the answer, JPF will always be the sum of and a reflection of its members. JPF is a "culture" and its "leadership" (more than Brian) has to set an example of appropriate behaviour that all are expected to follow.

It cannot be top down regulation...but it can be a decision to say police the toxicity. There are moderators here who have the power to do so. I know Brian wants a "light touch" but he has definitely created lines in the sand in the past. Then it is up to the rest of us to be part of ensuring threads do not descend into an abyss.





If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1157596 - 10/10/19 09:45 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Nov 2017
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RonnieDean Offline
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RonnieDean  Offline
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Keystone, CO USA
I am a newcomer here and don't know what it was like in the old days but after reading this thread I had to go back and scan the thread titles in this section of the site to see what was wrong. Besides the intentionally inflammatory thread title Stipends for the Libs (correction?), I don't see the problem. It's far more civil than say reddit.com or salon.com

I for one don't like to compete of any level over anything with anybody anymore choosing to just let people go on with their bad selves. They want to anyway.

There are people here from the whole spectrum of ideologies and approaches to life. I think y'all do pretty well considering.

#1157598 - 10/10/19 11:08 AM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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I think this thread supports my theory that they've all gone to Facebook

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...ne-talked-to-ben-willis.html#Post1157275

Not seen on Facebook lately, so come back to look for him here. If they had been here all along, they wouldnt need to come back looking.

That's not an insult to anyone, and I wish Ben well, but thats what may make people wonder what happened to the site, the people are still around, they just hang out in a different spot now.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/10/19 11:09 AM.
#1157617 - 10/10/19 11:47 PM Re: What has happened to JPF [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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TamsNumber4 Offline
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TamsNumber4  Offline
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New Hampshire
Fdemetrio,

With all due respect, I started that thread about Ben Willis but it doesn't prove anything. At the time, I had been away from this site doing 50/90 (write 50 songs in 90 days) where you will find a fair share of JPF folk as well as in February during FAWM, these songwriting competitions take all of your time. It had just ended and I checked on my friends, I noticed he hadn't posted an update on Facebook and I then came here to see if anyone has heard from him, he has an eye issue and I expect his family and close friends on FB to be posting about him. Even Brian has an active JPF Facebook page and I have been transferring his posts into JPF this week so that everyone can see his health updates.

The point is..no one is posting songs for comment on Facebook. No one is posting unfinished lyrics on Facebook. The population here ebbs and flows. Joice used to be here all of the time, but had to withdraw herself to learn covers and start performing and making money. I have done the same, I have learned a lot here and always return, but admit that running open mics, running a songwriting group, keeping up my multiple music sites and websites, memorizing music, practice all detracts from songwriting, so going into intense songwriting competitions is a good way to keep things going. Music can take a lot of your time. Facebook is a good way to keep in touch with people, but it isn't a music site like this.

Members here need to "RECRUIT" people. I am always telling people about this site and how they can get help here. New blood and good moderating could boost this site. Also, some new ideas to attract the old members back.

Looking for reasons on why things are the way they are instead of focusing on positive change is a waste of time. Remember why things were good, why things worked and what can be done to rejuvenate the site. It is the constant negative talk and lack of good moderating, kindness and respect that is problematic. There are good people here, we are a musical family.


http://tammyjann.com/
https://soundcloud.com/tamsnumber4
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1038504

Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it...
Professor Albus Dumbledore




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