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#1157128 - 09/30/19 04:41 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Whazzat?
The (Republicans) don't have anything to offer the people either? Well to be factual people have all the rights they need but it is up them to provide for themselves as much as possible. There is an old saying Charity begins at home. That means, in it's simplest terms you try to do it yourself before you ask somebody else to do it for you. There are so many Social Giveaway programs in place that people forgot how to provide for themselves.

There was a story one time where the pidgons were dying in a public park. For the longest time the city fed the pidgons but could no longer afford to feed them. They figured the pidgons knew how to forage for themselves so why were they dying?
Well come to be the pidgons had no idea how to forage for food! So the city went and captured wild pigdons and released them among the city pigdons to help them forage for themselves.


Ray E. Strode
#1157129 - 09/30/19 04:45 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Whazzat?
The (Republicans) don't have anything to offer the people either? Well to be factual people have all the rights they need but it is up them to provide for themselves as much as possible. There is an old saying Charity begins at home. That means, in it's simplest terms you try to do it yourself before you ask somebody else to do it for you. There are so many Social Giveaway programs in place that people forgot how to provide for themselves.

There was a story one time where the pidgons were dying in a public park. For the longest time the city fed the pidgons but could no longer afford to feed them. They figured the pidgons knew how to forage for themselves so why were they dying?
Well come to be the pidgons had no idea how to forage for food! So the city went and captured wild pigdons and released them among the city pigdons to help them forage for themselves.


I said the Middle Class, Trump pandered to the middle class, and still, has done nothing for them. Social giveaway programs go to the lower class. That is why TRUMP won. But his main focus is on Trade Wars with China.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/30/19 04:47 PM.
#1157132 - 09/30/19 07:39 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Sue Rarick Offline
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Sue, you have it almost completely backwards. The government in Ukraine was not pro-western. It was led by pro-Russian stooge Viktor Yanukovych. Most of the country was pro-western, but he took the Russian money and declined to sign a trade agreement with the European Union. It wasn't just the carrot of the money but also the stick of the crippling financial retaliation that Putin threatened if the deal was signed, as well as Yanukovych's pro-Russian sentiments. The outrage among the population at this move is what led to Yanukovych's overthrow and the subsequent Russian actions against Ukraine and its new pro-western government, including the invasion of Crimea and the eastern parts of the country. Obama's involvement consisted of imposing sanctions on the Russians in response. It's a bit of a stretch to call that starting a civil war. As for the stuff about mineral rights and hoped-for profits for the "coup-masters," that comes straight out of the Russian troll factory handbook. A lot of what is spread online originates in places that many who consume it don't realize.

Go back one year and there are a number of articles about Yanukovych being pro western - He only became pro Russian when he turned down the ridiculous offer made by the IMF and supported by the EU and US. They were offering 5 billion and he had to virtually sign away Ukraine mineral rights. The Russian's offered the Ukraine the 17 billion they owed and a discount on gas. This initiated the US funding Western groups (who it turns out celebrate Hitler collaborator as a hero). The retaliation was the removal of favored pricing.
As far as any invasion by Russia. You do know that it is a major Russian naval base and guess what - they had 20,000 military there as a normal cadre. The only people that supported the overthrow of Yanukovych were the Western regions. The Eastern regions saw it as a coup and yes it is a civil war. The Russian's support the eastern faction and the United states supports the western faction. BTW did you ever read articles in 2012 and 2013 about what the IMF was asking for as collateral? You may be falling prey to the Western propaganda factories.

I do have one advantage and it is why I have had an interest in the Ukraine - A friend of mine sent me some video via FTP of the protests with a note - listen to them --- they were speaking Esperanto. That is generally used by former Soviet Union countries much like the west uses English when speaking to people of another country. Those protestors weren't all Ukraine. A lot of the violent ones were imported. Who paid for those added protestors? It was a coup.




#1157133 - 09/30/19 07:58 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Sue Rarick Offline
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Sue...please tell me about the 7 wars that Obama started....and exactly how he started civil wars in Ukraine, Libya, Yemen and Syria. It is totally at odds with my understanding of international affairs so I am willing to be educated
Yemen, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria not to mention the unprecedented drone strikes in Somalia, Pakistan. Obama's main legacy in Africa is the destroying Libya and in doing so set back African unity for decades. Turning a prosperous country into a glorified slave market. Add up the numbers of people that died in those confrontations and they add up into the millions if you include the refugees who suffered because of his actions.
On the plus side, it ain't my problem - I live in a rural farm community happily retired and enjoy my home surrounded by the 101st AB and their families and eating home grown food.




#1157134 - 09/30/19 08:18 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Here is another bit of my theory backed up.

Do we have any Republicans who think OBAMA was a good President?

Do We have any Democrats who dont think Trump did much wrong on his phone call?

Ya see? Its all pre determined, we just sign up for one or the other. If the truth is out there, nobody knows what it is.


Actually I did vote for Obama for the same reason I voted for Trump - the other person was worse. Seriously McCain? Romney? Clinton?

As for that phone call .... The one thing it has done is make sure no foreign leader will ever be honest with a US president for fear of it being leaked. Remember it is the 3rd call that has been leaked. The other thing that I don't think has been thought through is do the Democrats actually think once a Democrat is elected President the Conservatives won't be running to the conservative courts and blocking over and over again every little thing the president tries to do. It will happen and be just as stupid. The difference is the Supreme Court is now moderately conservative but after the Kavanaugh circus if Trump wins he might as well go from moderate conservative to full blown Thomas 2.0.
The country is divided like never before and all because some Amateur defeated the Professionals? Trump winning is like the Washington Nationals beating the Harlem Globetrotters. It just can't be allowed.
Personally, I really don't care. It's fun to discuss but in the end we are all nobodies that within a generation nobody will know we ever existed. IE our opinions don't matter except in our own misguided egos where some poor souls live for their 'gotcha' moment that few see and fewer care about.




#1157135 - 09/30/19 08:26 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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BTW guys - Don't expect any immediate answers - I am off to other places and will probably be back in 2 to 3 weeks - have a good day y'all




#1157136 - 09/30/19 09:41 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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True that the western regions were the strongest supporters of the overthrow, but there were plenty from the more central areas too. Of course, I know that Russia has a huge naval base in Crimea, and really Crimea should never really have been part of Ukraine to begin with. I can also see how the Russian speaking areas in the east would see what happened as a coup, and a good argument could be made that it was, although not in the way we normally think of a coup by a faction of the military. It was instigated by a popular movement. On the other hand, there were some pretty unsavory, far right characters mixed in with the crowd.

Esperanto as a lingua franca in the Soviet Union? I can't believe that. There may be people who can speak Esperanto in Ukraine, and if both of them happened to meet in the Maidan, maybe they took the chance to practice. smile The lingua franca of the Soviet Union was Russian.

#1157137 - 09/30/19 09:55 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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"The Bible and other books are moral codes. They teach goodness and give hope. They dont reflect history....."

Ummmm...... I would highly recommend that you read it. There are many books of religion, philosophy, morality out there but the Bible does not present itself as such... In fact, the Bible is "primarily" a history book, validated by archeology and ancient secular historical records thousands of times over, and consequently "defines morality" by its unique perspective. In a court of law, the Bible, especially the new testament, is its own evidence because every author was a witness and every testimony is confirmed to be true mostly by Roman scribes. That's the reason we still swear upon it in the Supreme Court to this day, and the reason why today’s "progressive liberals" are so anti-constitutional and anti-Christian. Don't forget, ultimately it was politics that crucified Christ.

Last edited by JAPOV; 09/30/19 10:13 PM.
#1157142 - 10/01/19 06:19 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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The bible was written through people by God through the Holy Spirit. If God can keep a book on every person that ever lived and write down every thing we have ever done, good or bad, and number every hair on our heads and hold this universe together, I'm sure He can remember and dictate to man the bible. You can have your bad deeds blotted out of that book by accepting His Son Jesus as your Saviour. If not, they will still be there when you stand before God at the Great White Throne judgement to convict you on that day. Any mistakes in the bible are mistakes of the translators. When they found the Dead Sea Scrolls, it was proof that it was much the same as our bible today, correcting little mistakes that may have occurred over the years.

#1157149 - 10/01/19 08:44 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well Folks,
All I can say is get your hip boots on because the **** is getting deep in here! And yes, I have cleaned out barns.

And for a change of pace, GOOGLE ALL OF THE MONKEYS AIN'T IN THE ZOO by Tommy Collins!

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 10/01/19 08:48 AM.

Ray E. Strode
#1157151 - 10/01/19 09:24 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: JAPOV]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
"The Bible and other books are moral codes. They teach goodness and give hope. They dont reflect history....."

Ummmm...... I would highly recommend that you read it. There are many books of religion, philosophy, morality out there but the Bible does not present itself as such... In fact, the Bible is "primarily" a history book, validated by archeology and ancient secular historical records thousands of times over, and consequently "defines morality" by its unique perspective. In a court of law, the Bible, especially the new testament, is its own evidence because every author was a witness and every testimony is confirmed to be true mostly by Roman scribes. That's the reason we still swear upon it in the Supreme Court to this day, and the reason why today’s "progressive liberals" are so anti-constitutional and anti-Christian. Don't forget, ultimately it was politics that crucified Christ.


Ummm, I went to Catholic School. I had to take Theology class. I read the Bible many times. I used to go to church EVERY sunday, whether I wanted to or not. My Mother went to church EVERY day. I have read the Bible.

Not sure how you can say The Bible is a History book. The Bible DOESN'T present itself as a morality book? "Thou shall not covet they neighbors wife", that stands in stark contrast to "swingers". Do unto others as you would have done unto you? If I bomb your country, I can expect you to bomb mine.... Not only morality, but philosophy entwined.

There are certainly stories in The Bible that have a ring of fact about them. We do find historic sites that seem to corroborate the stories written. Certain persons, places and events rendered true. But even moreseo do we find contradictions and flat out wrong information in the Bible.

One thing I dont want to do is challenge anyone's faith. For me there is nothing more sad than God not existing. It's a fragile life, and we didnt ask to be here, but we are and we're left scratching our heads.






Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/01/19 10:29 AM.
#1157152 - 10/01/19 09:34 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
The bible was written through people by God through the Holy Spirit. If God can keep a book on every person that ever lived and write down every thing we have ever done, good or bad, and number every hair on our heads and hold this universe together, I'm sure He can remember and dictate to man the bible. You can have your bad deeds blotted out of that book by accepting His Son Jesus as your Saviour. If not, they will still be there when you stand before God at the Great White Throne judgement to convict you on that day. Any mistakes in the bible are mistakes of the translators. When they found the Dead Sea Scrolls, it was proof that it was much the same as our bible today, correcting little mistakes that may have occurred over the years.


Where does it say it was written through God? The Gospels werent even written by first hand witnesses, they were written by educated people who were capable of writing and had talent for writing. Why didnt God just hand, say Matthew, a pen, and say "let there be stories" and suddenly the uneducated peasants could write stories for HIS bible. Instead he did it YOUR way? Why wouldnt he choose one of his Apostles to write it? Because they couldnt write? Why not let them be able to write?

Why not come at a time in History when everything could be recorded? If he performed a miracle today, we'd have our phones up watching it happen. Doesnt it strike you funny that He came at a time when anything could be believed?

I believe in God, But I have to ask for forgiveness of Him, because most of my belief comes out of fear of death and wanting it to be true, not because I have iron clad faith. And I suspect thats most people.

btw, The Dead Sea Scrolls have presented many biblical books, not all are included in The Bible

And Muslims and Hindus and Mormons all have Books that came from sources around the same time. Why is our book better than their's?

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/01/19 10:31 AM.
#1157153 - 10/01/19 09:40 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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I'm done preaching, nobody’s listening
Guess I'll just write another song
Antiquated laurels for yesterday’s morals
Who will miss them when they’re gone....

#1157156 - 10/01/19 10:14 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Working title... "Shut Up And Sing!!"
Lol... come on ya'll, let's write this! smile

#1157157 - 10/01/19 10:19 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Eh, well,
Religion now? What next. A few facts not in vogue or realized. The Bible, like it or not, has been polished to hell and back over the last um, 2000 years or so. Fact two. The Bible was never meant to be used as it is being used today. Fact three. The Bible, believe it or not Totally disclaims it's self. I pretty well figured out religion in about 1952. When you hear things like you better get yourself saved or you are going to burn in hell you sit up and listen. It is amazing but I have found over the years the people most involved in religion know the least about it. So please practice your religion as you please, but keep it to yourself!


Ray E. Strode
#1157158 - 10/01/19 10:21 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Write a verse Ray! smile

#1157171 - 10/01/19 01:21 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Yemen, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria not to mention the unprecedented drone strikes in Somalia, Pakistan. Obama's main legacy in Africa is the destroying Libya and in doing so set back African unity for decades. Turning a prosperous country into a glorified slave market[color:#CC0000][/color]

Sue, none of these conflicts were started by Obama and much of US responses were done with the United nations or NATO as a group decision and deployment. Definitely true in the case of Libya, which was a UN action (it included UK, French, Canadian ships\forces and others), and Syria, which the US actually stayed out of until his hand was forced by Assad's chemical attacks on his own people....and which stopped because of the strikes.


What was unilateral was drone strikes designed to take out specific terrorist targets. Now unfortunately civilians too were killed...but the main target was terrorism...who btw killed more of their own countrymen than did drone strikes.

Most of the wars and revolts you cite were due to the "Arab Spring" which started in Tunisia when a fruit seller was shaken down by a corrupt police force. A combination of other corrupt governments and the power of social media exported the Arab Spring to those other countries

So to paint Obama as some kind of war monger due to the War on Terrorism (started under Bush) and to say that by helping Lybians get rid of Ghadaffi he actually set back the African agenda goes counter to the facts. Africa would never have united around Lybia, and Somalia was fighting internally ...formally from 1991 to about 2012 ...and the US was largely there in the early ninetees under HW Bush

Bottom line

1) Obama started no wars but inherited Iraq and Afghanistan...and remember Iraq was largely based on a lie put forward by Cheney et al
2) Obama definitely acted against other countries experiencing a civil war...but mostly in conjunction with the UN or NATO
3) Obama definitely sent in drones...but these were meant as surgical strikes to take out specific terrorist targets

Now I am not saying he was "lily white" in everything...just that your narrative is not supported by the facts


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1157177 - 10/01/19 03:51 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Yemen, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria not to mention the unprecedented drone strikes in Somalia, Pakistan. Obama's main legacy in Africa is the destroying Libya and in doing so set back African unity for decades. Turning a prosperous country into a glorified slave market[color:#CC0000][/color]

Sue, none of these conflicts were started by Obama and much of US responses were done with the United nations or NATO as a group decision and deployment. Definitely true in the case of Libya, which was a UN action (it included UK, French, Canadian ships\forces and others), and Syria, which the US actually stayed out of until his hand was forced by Assad's chemical attacks on his own people....and which stopped because of the strikes.


What was unilateral was drone strikes designed to take out specific terrorist targets. Now unfortunately civilians too were killed...but the main target was terrorism...who btw killed more of their own countrymen than did drone strikes.

Most of the wars and revolts you cite were due to the "Arab Spring" which started in Tunisia when a fruit seller was shaken down by a corrupt police force. A combination of other corrupt governments and the power of social media exported the Arab Spring to those other countries

So to paint Obama as some kind of war monger due to the War on Terrorism (started under Bush) and to say that by helping Lybians get rid of Ghadaffi he actually set back the African agenda goes counter to the facts. Africa would never have united around Lybia, and Somalia was fighting internally ...formally from 1991 to about 2012 ...and the US was largely there in the early ninetees under HW Bush

Bottom line

1) Obama started no wars but inherited Iraq and Afghanistan...and remember Iraq was largely based on a lie put forward by Cheney et al
2) Obama definitely acted against other countries experiencing a civil war...but mostly in conjunction with the UN or NATO
3) Obama definitely sent in drones...but these were meant as surgical strikes to take out specific terrorist targets

Now I am not saying he was "lily white" in everything...just that your narrative is not supported by the facts



John, facts are almost never facts. There is always a way to slant the facts. I have heard and read people, columnists, news people, commentaters calling Obama a Marxist, a Socialist, a Racist, a terrorist sympathizer and a terrorist, as well as a war ciminal, a liar, etc etc etc. I have also read others who say what a kind man he is, what a great president he was, how much he did for this country, how his healthcare plan was so great.

You dont have the facts, you have your interpretation of the facts.

I guess its always been this way, if you read English History books they dont mention US kickin their azz very much if at all.

It just now, its even worse. You cant trust any source any more, and even our own judgement of the facts can be wrong.

We can have a video of somebody murdering somebody and somehow it can be slanted and that person can be found innocent....or at least not guilty

Mathematics is about the only thing that deals with facts. 1+1 will always be.... wait a minute here.... 2 right? Just checking

Science changes every day, history has multiple story lines, pick your favorite.

Dangerous times especially now with the internet and the media everywhere.

When I see a guy on CNN or Fox I immediately dont believe them, or their slant. Even if they believe it.

I somewhat believe the general news man on regular news, but those stations are biased also


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/01/19 04:11 PM.
#1157178 - 10/01/19 04:13 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Also, we have a phone call with Trump and Ukraine president.

Replublicans dont hear anything in it, Dems think its treason

My guess is if Obama were caught on the same exact call, the reviews would be the reverse

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/01/19 04:13 PM.
#1157179 - 10/01/19 05:21 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


Mathematics is about the only thing that deals with facts. 1+1 will always be.... wait a minute here.... 2 right? Just checking



Nicely done. Nicely referring to Orwell's novel 1984. "2 + 2 = 5" was the litmus test whether or not you'd been properly "propagandized" aka brainwashed, or not..if you could believe 2 + 2 = 5..

It would be interesting to hear Orwell's take on today's political climate. Would he say that any slant on a fact (or interpretation of a fact) was propaganda? Or is there some point where, given too much slant (or too much interpretation), a fact ceases to be a fact...

But with climate change, specifically, we are talking about data, and that's different from facts.

Data can be open to interpretation, unless it can be established that certain patterns of related data absolutely must mean certain, specific things. Here's where climate change data and its interpretations splits scientists into two camps.

It can come down to who you choose to believe, this scientist or that. Granted, it does seem like most of the important scientists say that climate change is upon us.

Anyway, I enjoyed your wink towards that great novel that is ever so relevant in today's world.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/01/19 05:58 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

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from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157183 - 10/01/19 06:05 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Fdemetrio, I get what you're saying. Everyone has a bias when it comes to interpreting facts. However, the underlying facts are there. Anyone calling Obama "a Marxist, a Socialist, a Racist, a terrorist sympathizer and a terrorist, as well as a war criminal, a liar, etc etc etc," is quite simply wrong, maybe through malice, but also maybe through ignorance. The exception would be liar. No politician has never told a lie.

As an aside, I grew up in Britain and we did learn quite a lot about the American Revolution in class. Obviously it would not have the same emphasis as here, where it is the foundation story of the whole country. Since I was in Scotland, that kind of reverence was reserved for our own wars of independence, but we did cover it in quite a lot of detail, though not until high school. Oh, and that azz-kicking, we did learn that a lot of it was done with stylish French leather boots, since they were still sore about the Seven Years War and farting in our general direction just wasn't doing it for them smile

Last edited by Gavin Sinclair; 10/01/19 06:06 PM.
#1157186 - 10/01/19 09:39 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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When it comes to solving the issue of whether man-made "global warming" is real or not real.......how can anyone take a stance that it isn't real--given our pollution may be the cause? We have to and can not afford to not curb and discontinue certain emissions such as CO2. That's not to say that man-made global warming it isn't real, but because we see climate change happening, rapidly within our own lifetime, we have to assume that we may be the cause. There are some mistakes that may not be fixed as Scott pointed out. We have to be proactive as a collective world.

But determining whether it is a long term cycle or short term weather cycle--we do not have enough historical weather data far enough in our written history to determine that; nor does 4,000 yrs of history represent much geological time anyway.........Yes, we do have geology that shows us the prehistoric stratigraphy and much about the earth's changes from era to era--but that's no guarantee that the future will replicate the past or gives us definite answers on rising temperatures. Our solar system and all the planets orbits have different cycles, the sun also orbits "something," though we're not exactly sure what, which means we are following the sun through space like a corkscrew as we orbit the sun. So many possible changes in the solar system's movements could effect our climate in cycles that may only repeat every 10,000 years--who knows?

But more importantly than arguing about whether there is or isn't an effect by mankind (personkind) on major climate global warming--we HAVE to assume that there is for two reasons: 1, It may be true, and 2, there is no question that it is better for our beautiful earth to minimize pollution and clean up both our air and our oceans. What is the bio-plankton starts dying.........? We get more oxygen from the bio-plankton in the ocean that all the plants and trees. Trees are great and they surely help, but without the bio-plankton, not only would the ocean die, but our air would lose it's major oxygen vendor.....................

I like what Scott has to say, and he's right on. Couch, I enjoyed your satire as well.

steady-eddie

#1157189 - 10/02/19 08:35 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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I don't know why I bother but the bible tell me if I see someone heading toward destruction and I don't warn them, I will be held accountable. Another place it tells me not to toss my pearls before swine. Is this one of the contradictions that you say are in the bible? Most of the bible( old Testament) was the history of the Jews. Most of the new Testament was written by Paul, who was a scholar, Mark, who was a Doctor, wrote much of it too, plus John and others. God wrote the ten commandments in stone, good thing He didn't write the whole bible that way, fingers of fire would not allow Him to write on paper, I would not want to lift a bible of stone. We are seeing the bible unfolding before our eyes today. The things that are happening were foretold by Jesus, including this climate change when the sea will be raging, volcanoes and earthquakes in diverse places, wars and rumours of war, famine and pestilences, they will increase and then the end of the age will come when He will set up His kingdom. There will also be a great falling away( which is happening now in affluent countries like America, Canada and Europe) and a great revival (which is happening in Africa and Asia). Sounds like another contradiction but it's not.

That's it, I'm through casting pearls.

#1157192 - 10/02/19 09:10 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1157193 - 10/02/19 09:22 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Fdemetrio, I get what you're saying. Everyone has a bias when it comes to interpreting facts. However, the underlying facts are there. Anyone calling Obama "a Marxist, a Socialist, a Racist, a terrorist sympathizer and a terrorist, as well as a war criminal, a liar, etc etc etc," is quite simply wrong, maybe through malice, but also maybe through ignorance. The exception would be liar. No politician has never told a lie.

As an aside, I grew up in Britain and we did learn quite a lot about the American Revolution in class. Obviously it would not have the same emphasis as here, where it is the foundation story of the whole country. Since I was in Scotland, that kind of reverence was reserved for our own wars of independence, but we did cover it in quite a lot of detail, though not until high school. Oh, and that azz-kicking, we did learn that a lot of it was done with stylish French leather boots, since they were still sore about the Seven Years War and farting in our general direction just wasn't doing it for them smile


But how are you obtaining the UNDERLYING facts? You had to have read them somewhere or heard them somewhere. Somebody had to write those "facts"

Let me give you an example: https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.co...riminal-butcherer-of-women-and-children/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/02/19 09:28 AM.
#1157194 - 10/02/19 09:25 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Back to climate change

What I favour is making companies absorb and price in ALL the costs of their activities. Those simply passed on to society without any regard to impact include pollution, plastics in the Pacific, and all the factors that affect the environment and our climate.

Right now companies cannot pollute willy nilly, though if news reports are true, stuff often gets messed up in the chase for profits. In Canada three waste disposal companies had a shipment of plastics tracked. Only one did as they promised...bring it in for recycling....one burned it in what they claimed was a "clean" incinirator, and one simply dumped it in a landfill. News investigators also found that although fast food places may allow customers to segregate their waste, in the end it is all set out as garbage at the curbs. Challenged by this, one such shining example of citizenship said they allowed customers to "recycle" because it made them feel good about buying from them, but that actual recycling was "too costly".

Not far away from me Nestle's owns artesian wells from which it pumps water....very cheaply I might add (bad government...bad government...) ...and sells it in plastic bottles...after which it cares not a wit.

I expect we can find lots of examples where companies pass on their costs to society.

To me this is really where Eddie's argument....why fight good policies that attempt to clean things up, even if you do not believe in climate change?....resonates with me.

Maybe mankind's affect on the climate is not real...or limited...or not as bad as argued. What is real is tainted water, loss of water (hello Southern USA), polluted lands and waters, a huge mess of plastic in the Pacific...again, let your own research find what IS real






If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1157195 - 10/02/19 09:44 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I don't know why I bother but the bible tell me if I see someone heading toward destruction and I don't warn them, I will be held accountable. Another place it tells me not to toss my pearls before swine. Is this one of the contradictions that you say are in the bible? Most of the bible( old Testament) was the history of the Jews. Most of the new Testament was written by Paul, who was a scholar, Mark, who was a Doctor, wrote much of it too, plus John and others. God wrote the ten commandments in stone, good thing He didn't write the whole bible that way, fingers of fire would not allow Him to write on paper, I would not want to lift a bible of stone. We are seeing the bible unfolding before our eyes today. The things that are happening were foretold by Jesus, including this climate change when the sea will be raging, volcanoes and earthquakes in diverse places, wars and rumours of war, famine and pestilences, they will increase and then the end of the age will come when He will set up His kingdom. There will also be a great falling away( which is happening now in affluent countries like America, Canada and Europe) and a great revival (which is happening in Africa and Asia). Sounds like another contradiction but it's not.

That's it, I'm through casting pearls.


That is why I dont tell Jehovas Witness people to get away from me. I realize they believe they are helping me, and helping themselves. They dont know how to think independently, they think every religion is wrong except their own, but they seem sincere, so I treat them with respect. "Would you mind if I ask you a question"
Sure, ga head knock yourself out....
"Do you think the world is seeing some troubled times"?
Oh chit yet, we are screwed mama...(teehee)
"well im glad you see that, because what If I told you that the Bible said this would happen" Let me tease a bit.... Well, how do you know the Bible was talking about now? The revolutionary war was pretty awful, so was the civil war, and WW1 and 2, maybe the Bible was talking about those times, and not now? Smiles..... they dont usually dont know what to say. lol

But I see Jehova Witnesses seemingly every time I step outside. They dont wait to knock on doors any more they hang around street corners. I had a young kid, must of been 15 years old come up to me, hand me a leaflet, and said. "I just want you to know Jesus loves you" Again, I thought it took alot of courage to do that so I smiled at him and said thanks, Nice to have him on my team.

One time I saw a really pretty girl walking down the street with a bible in her hand, she wasnt Jehova, but Born again. I ended up writing a song about the incident, if I can find it ill post it.

But you do have realize faith is an internal thing, and no logic can support it, it's an instinct and a feeling. If you argue with somebody preaching logic, you're gonna lose every time. The two weren't meant to be compared.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/02/19 09:48 AM.
#1157200 - 10/02/19 11:15 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel





You cite the CBC? smile


Seriously?


Couldn't find anything from NPR? smirk



Regards,


Bob

#1157203 - 10/02/19 12:12 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Nope... I cited articles published on its web site that talks about disinformation and links to tools one can use to figure out the truth for yourself.

No problem if you do not want to read them or look through the tools....but I do have an issue when you simply dismiss things outright because you don't like CBC....even if you added the smilies



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1157204 - 10/02/19 12:15 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Back to climate change

To me this is really where Eddie's argument....why fight good policies that attempt to clean things up, even if you do not believe in climate change?....resonates with me.




I agree. But I am already hearing the counter argument in my head, "because it's just giving money to the actual really corrupt people who've been brainwashing you liberals."

Again, there can't be a discussion on this until everyone at least finds SOME common ground from which to start.

Let's start here:

1) No one wants the world to end anytime soon, except radical conservative groups within that party who are happy to have the "End of Days" upon us.

2) Cleaning up the environment CAN be done in a way that is WIN/WIN..where nobody loses--and maybe we just need to keep working TOGETHER to find that common ground from which to work on this?

3) If a scientist falsifies data and/or is in the pockets of big business, that is a MAJOR crime, because we must be able to trust our scientists and their data, and their opinions concerning what that data means.

4) Changing one's position on something can be very hard to do. The more invested, the harder it is..


Anyone care to add to my "common grounds" list, feel free.....



And a personal aside...I find it quite a stretch to believe that EVERY science-based opinion that supports that climate change is real is corrupted information or a corrupted opinion. That would be a conspiracy bigger than "The Illuminati." This suggests we are indeed living in Orwell's world, and only the conservatives are not brainwashed.

This is why I just want to write and produce music....


Mike


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/02/19 01:20 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157206 - 10/02/19 12:28 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Nope... I cited articles published on its web site that talks about disinformation and links to tools one can use to figure out the truth for yourself.

No problem if you do not want to read them or look through the tools....but I do have an issue when you simply dismiss things outright because you don't like CBC....even if you added the smilies






Right. You cite the State's Media arm, with regard to "fake news". Can you be so gullible? Here's another look at the "author":


https://www.therebel.media/cbc-onli...-sandra-solomon-anti-islam-youtube-video



Do some research, man.

#1157209 - 10/02/19 12:46 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Holding up a far right obviously bogus "news" network as a research tool on a par with the ones John cited, while calling him gullible and suggesting that NPR is fake news in comparison shows just how successful the war on truth has been.

#1157211 - 10/02/19 01:00 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Holding up a far right obviously bogus "news" network as a research tool on a par with the ones John cited, while calling him gullible and suggesting that NPR is fake news in comparison shows just how successful the war on truth has been.



War on truth?



You crack me up, man.


How's your new website going there, Gavin? Getting much traffic?

#1157212 - 10/02/19 01:32 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Common ground #5...

5) Ad hominem attacks add nothing to a dialogue and only escalate animosity.


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157213 - 10/02/19 01:51 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Common ground #5...

5) Ad hominem attacks add nothing to a dialogue and only escalate animosity.




My response was to an ad hominem attack on me.


"escalate animosity"?


You crack me up too, dude. smirk

#1157214 - 10/02/19 02:01 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Good grief people...... War on truth? SERIOUSLY?!? Why aren’t any of you progressive communists talking about EXACTLY HOW THE NEW WORLD ORDER PLANS TO REGULATE THE ENVIRONMENT?!?

I would elaborate myself... but I'm done preaching, and I need to go pick up my concealed cary permit....

#1157216 - 10/02/19 02:17 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Hmmm....

We're supposed to play nice, when we do we are in some sense being phony...as is the case with critiques. When a discussion comes up it becomes apparent who forget leans, who tilts the whole way toward one side, and it gets ugly.

This is really our biggest problem now. There's no communication between the left and the right.

When we ask for facts, we deal our facts through websites we believe to be right. I remember a time when the news used to say what happened, not this happening, but for certain reasons etc etc etc

We should be able to read an article that says what Obama did, and take it at face value, but these motives and reasons pop up.

To be honest with the whole whistle blower thing, i heard both sides, I read the transcripts, and I dont know what to think. Maybe thats why we go to sided websites to see what they think of it, and THEN we go with that.

I dont know if Trump sold the country out, or he didnt do anything, and we have a phone call on tape, and I still cant determine what was done.

Facts come from people, people have biased. That's just how it is but on steroids these days.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/02/19 02:19 PM.
#1157217 - 10/02/19 02:26 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Hearing people's opinions sure does trigger people today. And it's not even just politics, just any old expressed opinion.

Suddenly all the musical fellowship goes out the window, replaced by a kind of road rage, only without a road.

Why is that? How come the writer of that sweet little song about Mama's Peach Pie suddenly wants to shoot you in the piehole? It's unsettling to see it so often, with so many people, watching those people change gradually, get a little more weaponized every time.

I remember a time not long ago when controversial topics argued online didn't catch fire so quickly. There was plenty of drama and argument...but the escalation into that non-listening, condemning state of righteous wrath...man, that sure is popular these days.

#1157218 - 10/02/19 02:29 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: JAPOV]  
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Good grief people...... War on truth? SERIOUSLY?!? Why aren’t any of you progressive communists talking about EXACTLY HOW THE NEW WORLD ORDER PLANS TO REGULATE THE ENVIRONMENT?!?

I would elaborate myself... but I'm done preaching, and I need to go pick up my concealed cary permit....

LOL. Tony, I'd try to help out, but I've lost the phone number for the New World Order, so I can't call and ask them about their nefarious plans. smile

I'd ask a communist, but I can't find one.

#1157219 - 10/02/19 02:37 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: 90 dB]  
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Originally Posted by 90 dB
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Common ground #5...

5) Ad hominem attacks add nothing to a dialogue and only escalate animosity.




My response was to an ad hominem attack on me.


"escalate animosity"?


You crack me up too, dude. smirk



So you looked into my soul and just knew that I was saying yours was ad hominem and NOT Gavin's:?


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157220 - 10/02/19 02:41 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Hearing people's opinions sure does trigger people today. And it's not even just politics, just any old expressed opinion.

Suddenly all the musical fellowship goes out the window, replaced by a kind of road rage, only without a road.

Why is that? How come the writer of that sweet little song about Mama's Peach Pie suddenly wants to shoot you in the piehole? It's unsettling to see it so often, with so many people, watching those people change gradually, get a little more weaponized every time.

I remember a time not long ago when controversial topics argued online didn't catch fire so quickly. There was plenty of drama and argument...but the escalation into that non-listening, condemning state of righteous wrath...man, that sure is popular these days.



+1

********************************************************



Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/02/19 02:41 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157221 - 10/02/19 02:44 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Hearing people's opinions sure does trigger people today. And it's not even just politics, just any old expressed opinion.

Suddenly all the musical fellowship goes out the window, replaced by a kind of road rage, only without a road.

Why is that? How come the writer of that sweet little song about Mama's Peach Pie suddenly wants to shoot you in the piehole? It's unsettling to see it so often, with so many people, watching those people change gradually, get a little more weaponized every time.

I remember a time not long ago when controversial topics argued online didn't catch fire so quickly. There was plenty of drama and argument...but the escalation into that non-listening, condemning state of righteous wrath...man, that sure is popular these days.


I have always said politics were a form of entertainment. Chit, I was entertained when I watched Trump debate Clinton, it made for good TV. It didn't make for good relations or politics.

I think people would rather talk about politics, and complain about them, then see a change happen.

I think i was raised mostly democratic, by dad was a union man so traditionally Dems support unions. I have some conservative in me too, prolly a conservative democrat, but I like to think my vote hasn't been mailed in already.

But it does remind us, just because people dont always remark to us on a forum, it doesnt mean they dont despise us. And it doesnt mean they dont think our songs suck if they play the game and give nice comments.

As we've seen once people get in an argument, suddenly their songs suck too!

#1157222 - 10/02/19 02:47 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by 90 dB
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Common ground #5...

5) Ad hominem attacks add nothing to a dialogue and only escalate animosity.




My response was to an ad hominem attack on me.


"escalate animosity"?


You crack me up too, dude. smirk



So you looked into my soul and just knew that I was saying yours was ad hominem and NOT Gavin's:?






And btw, 90 dB, happy to entertain.


You come off like a bully, to me, though. Not really trying to engage in real dialogue, just very quick to be verbally hurtful.

But it's easy to understand. We have a President that makes that kind of bullying and belittling seem perfectly normal.

I am trying to help folks figure out how to find common ground to talk one another. If this cracks you up, perhaps consider this is part of the problem?

Some people don't REALLY want dialogue, but to vent there deep seeded anger..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/02/19 10:25 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157223 - 10/02/19 02:49 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 870
90 dB Offline
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90 dB  Offline
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Florida
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by 90 dB
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Common ground #5...

5) Ad hominem attacks add nothing to a dialogue and only escalate animosity.




My response was to an ad hominem attack on me.


"escalate animosity"?


You crack me up too, dude. smirk



So you looked into my soul and just knew that I was saying yours was ad hominem and NOT Gavin's:?







Since your response directly followed my last statement, it was obvious who you were addressing. Nice try. No sale.

#1157224 - 10/02/19 02:50 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: 90 dB]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by 90 dB
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by 90 dB
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Common ground #5...

5) Ad hominem attacks add nothing to a dialogue and only escalate animosity.




My response was to an ad hominem attack on me.


"escalate animosity"?


You crack me up too, dude. smirk



So you looked into my soul and just knew that I was saying yours was ad hominem and NOT Gavin's:?







Since your response directly followed my last statement, it was obvious who you were addressing. Nice try. No sale.


So you are calling me a liar?


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157225 - 10/02/19 02:52 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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The chit is gonna hit the fan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa7nSzCiGXk

#1157227 - 10/02/19 02:59 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Martin Lide Offline
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Martin Lide  Offline
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Houston, Texas
Folks

We all love writing songs. That is our union.
Political threads are poison. I suggest that you guys fade this quickly to black.

Sincerely

Martin

#1157228 - 10/02/19 03:01 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Folks

We all love writing songs. That is our union.
Political threads are poison. I suggest that you guys fade this quickly to black.

Sincerely

Martin


I agree. Another year of this?, Seriously?


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1157229 - 10/02/19 03:03 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Martin Lide]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,502
Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Folks

We all love writing songs. That is our union.
Political threads are poison. I suggest that you guys fade this quickly to black.

Sincerely

Martin


Yes, but it's also a microcosm of the world/internet today. One would never think a songwriting forum could be used to show the problem with politics today, but it can and does.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/02/19 03:04 PM.
#1157230 - 10/02/19 03:05 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Posts: 5,089
California
dB,

For the record, no, I WAS NOT gonna respond after Gavin, though I DID SEE that his was a disguised ad hominem attack.

After your response, there were attacks from BOTH SIDES.

If you knew me, you'd know I hate it when people fight.

So after BOTH of you had attacked each other, perhaps in my misguided attempt at "fairness" or "stopping a potential fight" I then thought it the right time to say something.

And I don't appreciate the insinuation that I was lying.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/02/19 03:08 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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