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#1156874 - 09/23/19 08:14 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Dec 2000
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couchgrouch Online content
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I just had the honor of watching a clip of Greta-what's-her-name. I busted out laughing at the melodrama, then I continued to destroy her dreams, racing the planet toward mass extinction by chowing down on a cheeseburger.

I will sleep tonight with the comfort of knowing my house is nowhere near the energy hog of Al Gore's. Of course, I don't have an Oscar and hundreds of millions of dollars from a BS movie whose predictions NEVER CAME TRUE.

It's a religion.


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1156878 - 09/23/19 11:42 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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CG, with respect, I think youíre confusing the issue by "playing the part" of the denier... or at least aggravating it lol.
No one is denying that industry pollutes the earth and atmosphere and thereís much that can be done to stop it. "Climate Denier" is just the latest, leftist, alarmist political catch-phrase for the ill-informed and easily misled. The biggest problem I see with this issue is that the 2 biggest proponents of "man made climate change" and the urgent need to get everyone under control.... are also the 2 biggest proponents of world government and religion, the United Nations and the Pope.

#1156882 - 09/24/19 07:29 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Everett Adams  Offline
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,NL Canada
Mathew 24 tells what it will be like in the last days. Whether it is climate change that causes all the seas to be raging or not remains to be seen. The bible also says that man will curse God because of the heat. It seem our summers in some parts of the world are hitting temperatures never seen before. In Revelations it says unless these days be shortened there will be no flesh left alive. In the last days this world is going to go through terrible times, weather wise, wars, famine, disease, death and destruction, upheaval of all kinds, I believe we have already started but it will gain in intensity as time goes by. But for those that believe, look up, your redemption draws nigh.

#1156885 - 09/24/19 09:21 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Gavin, Kevin, Mike, Liberals.....

Martin, Couchgrouch, Ray, Sue, Conservatives....

Am i wrong? You know how id know even if I didnt know? By what they say about Global Warming

Isnt that a bit like why 66% of blacks thought OJ was innocent but 66% of Whites thought he was guilty...it was ALMOST as easy as looking at the color of ones skin and knowing what they thought about it.

Shrugs...


FD,

Actually, climate change is uniting both parties, in essence, but not in it's urgency.

A majority of Republicans now DO believe climate change is a reality. It's just an overwhelming majority that, when polled, think it's not a big deal at this time..It's a much smaller percentage of Republicans that believe it to be a hoax or conspiracy.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/climate/republicans-global-warming-maps.html

Of course, I am sure "alternative facts" can be found to support anything at this point.

That's why everything boils down to a leap of faith. Doublespeak can find a way to make us believe the most obvious scientific facts are "fake facts."





Well, so far anybody here with identifiable political leanings have supported my theory. I dont think most people believe climate change is real, what I do believe is people believe or disbelieve based on what source tells them. If you only watch fox news, guess what your opinion will be, if you only watch cnn guess as well.

No matter what side you take, we dont realize that our "sides" are so biased. I know Dems who will vote Dem no matter what the situation is. I also know Repubs who do the same. Whether its good for the country or not, whether the candidate is a murderer, felon, predator, none of that matters, they vote their party no matter what.

Cant tell you how un American that actually is, and how stupid it actually is.

I also think we need more than two points of view, last election I thought both Trump and Hillary were jokes of candidates. I was saying in the entire country we cant find two better candidates than that?

How this applies to Global Warming..... As I wrote, I can tell what party the person belongs to just by how they feel about Global Warming

I say its a scientific question that educated scientists should be debating. Once they figure it out, then lets go for legislation, lets not let our politicians decide if its real or not.

We might as well let politicians write and record our music for us too.

I agree spin and doublespeak can change many opinions. That's why I say lets let the scientists figure it out. Lets make it a proven fact, and then try to find a solution.

As I wrote, we dont even have "proof" that a high fat diet is bad for you, many think it;s good for you, educated Harvard and Yale Scientists are still debating this

Here is what we already know. Obesity, way bigger problem RIGHT now than Global Warming. https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/obesity/obesity-america-growing-concern.

Health Care is going to bankrupt us before we could even figure out a way to change Climate.

Gun Violence is getting so bad, all of our children will be shot at school before they figure out if climate change is hurting us

If Im a presidential candidate, I dont even mention Global Warming, not till the more important stuff is brought up.




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/24/19 09:38 AM.
#1156886 - 09/24/19 09:22 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: May 2001
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Aw, humm,
Is there Global Warming? Well it was reported by somebody that last year was the warmest since there were records kept.
Can't remember maybe 1Degree warmer. Several years ago when we were visiting relatives in Florida there was a severe drought and places that normally were filled with water were completely dried up. However the rains came back and the drought ended. The weather of course is not on any regular pattern so things change all the time. Places where ice and snow have built up over many centuries are melting but may build up in other places.

I can say that those that say we have only 12 years left belong on the Funny Farm. If we only had 12 years left all the fragile life on earth including you and me would be dead already.

People have predicted the end of the world is here. The last I remember was some preacher just a few years ago that had calculated the end. When that didn't happen he said he was in error and adjusted the date a bit later. That didn't happen either so he gave up. I think he is deceased now.


Ray E. Strode
#1156887 - 09/24/19 09:33 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Aw, humm,
Is there Global Warming? Well it was reported by somebody that last year was the warmest since there were records kept.
Can't remember maybe 1Degree warmer. Several years ago when we were visiting relatives in Florida there was a severe drought and places that normally were filled with water were completely dried up. However the rains came back and the drought ended. The weather of course is not on any regular pattern so things change all the time. Places where ice and snow have built up over many centuries are melting but may build up in other places.

I can say that those that say we have only 12 years left belong on the Funny Farm. If we only had 12 years left all the fragile life on earth including you and me would be dead already.

People have predicted the end of the world is here. The last I remember was some preacher just a few years ago that had calculated the end. When that didn't happen he said he was in error and adjusted the date a bit later. That didn't happen either so he gave up. I think he is deceased now.


Oh you mean the wise ole owl Harold Camping?

He not only predicted the end of the world incorrectly once, but several times. People believed him so much they sold their belongings and left their houses and cars behind to brace for this event. When nothing happened, they had nothing left.

That bafoon believed in his own power to read through the Bible and figure out the mind of God. He couldnt.

Hey, a very good trader, or investor or handicapper is only going to be right 60% of the time. And they have alot more predicatability on their side


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/24/19 09:40 AM.
#1156888 - 09/24/19 09:42 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Reminds me of that episode of "Parks & Recreation," when a doomsday cult tries to reserve the park to await the end of the world there. When informed that it's already booked, they inquire about the following week.

#1156889 - 09/24/19 09:47 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Reminds me of that episode of "Parks & Recreation," when a doomsday cult tries to reserve the park to await the end of the world there. When informed that it's already booked, they inquire about the following week.


Well alot of people dont know this, but here in Jersey, if you go bowling and bowl a perfect game, then die, you bowl free the next time around. When you think about that, that is a great deal.

#1156890 - 09/24/19 10:05 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Aug 2007
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Martin Lide Offline
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Martin Lide  Offline
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This thing is still going....

The weather and most all energy originates with the sun.
The next biggest factors are the tilt of the earth and the rotation.
Then comes a mountain of detail.

The questions are...
Does the earth's atmosphere accumulate and retain carbon emissions?
Are those emissions enough to have an an affect on the natural weather patterns?
Are those effects enough to heat the planet and detroy the food supply?


If you say that they can't.... there is no way for your to know that, other than accepting someone else's viewpoint.
If you say that they can....same thing.

If you have no concern at all, I personally regard you as pointlessly oblivious.
There is reason for a reasonable person to be concerned.

And according to the climate changers, the die is cast and the ride is a locked in.\
Hope for the best.

Politically speaking....It would have accomplished nothin to create a slush fund for 3rd world dictators to pilfer. That was just a circle jerk. But that does not say that there is no reason for concern.

If you want to take action, travel to China and India and tell them to shut down.

get your real news here.

Marty



#1156892 - 09/24/19 10:09 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Martin Lide]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
This thing is still going....

The weather and most all energy originates with the sun.
The next biggest factors are the tilt of the earth and the rotation.
Then comes a mountain of detail.

The questions are...
Does the earth's atmosphere accumulate and retain carbon emissions?
Are those emissions enough to have an an affect on the natural weather patterns?
Are those effects enough to heat the planet and detroy the food supply?


If you say that they can't.... there is no way for your to know that, other than accepting someone else's viewpoint.
If you say that they can....same thing.

If you have no concern at all, I personally regard you as pointlessly oblivious.
There is reason for a reasonable person to be concerned.

And according to the climate changers, the die is cast and the ride is a locked in.\
Hope for the best.

Politically speaking....It would have done nothing about it to create a slush fund for 3rd world dictators to pilfer. That was just a circle jerk.

get your news here.

Marty




Im more concerned about our obesity epidemic, and healthcare crisis.

Rheumatoid Arthritis designer drugs, biologics are revolutionalizing the disease. You know how much they cost? 20 grand a year for one person.

We shouldnt be thinking about anything else right now than healthcare.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/24/19 10:20 AM.
#1156893 - 09/24/19 10:13 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Wait a minute here. Sir Paul believes in Global Warming.

How do I disagree with a Beatle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wfuv63X0Jo

#1156894 - 09/24/19 10:23 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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#1156895 - 09/24/19 10:39 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Wait a minute here. Sir Paul believes in Global Warming.

How do I disagree with a Beatle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wfuv63X0Jo

That's a really good song.

The search for a "better mascot" is over LOL

#1156896 - 09/24/19 10:41 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio

Thanks for posting that Fdemetrio. Very interesting reading.

#1156897 - 09/24/19 10:50 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Im just saying, we probably have decades to deal with global warming, if it is a real problem with a real solution. Im not a scientist but I do know scientists dont agree on it no matter what article you read.

But we all agree were in deep chit if we dont fix healthcare. It affects everybody

#1156899 - 09/24/19 12:14 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's....."
Last election cycle I was so disgusted with my options I didnít even bother to vote... However, I voted in the mid-terms and will most definitely vote this time around for what I believe to be the lesser of two evils. I donít believe government is the answer to every problem. I believe government should defend our freedom to solve our own problems, and defend our freedom to live as proper examples for others. Be a vegetarian, be climate conscious, be proud of your ethnicity, be gay.... just donít abuse the powers of government to insist that I should agree with you.

Last edited by JAPOV; 09/24/19 12:27 PM.
#1156900 - 09/24/19 12:35 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Aug 2007
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Martin Lide Offline
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Martin Lide  Offline
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Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
This thing is still going....

The weather and most all energy originates with the sun.
The next biggest factors are the tilt of the earth and the rotation.
Then comes a mountain of detail.

The questions are...
Does the earth's atmosphere accumulate and retain carbon emissions?
Are those emissions enough to have an an affect on the natural weather patterns?
Are those effects enough to heat the planet and detroy the food supply?


If you say that they can't.... there is no way for your to know that, other than accepting someone else's viewpoint.
If you say that they can....same thing.

If you have no concern at all, I personally regard you as pointlessly oblivious.
There is reason for a reasonable person to be concerned.

And according to the climate changers, the die is cast and the ride is a locked in.\
Hope for the best.

Politically speaking....It would have done nothing about it to create a slush fund for 3rd world dictators to pilfer. That was just a circle jerk.

get your news here.

Marty




Im more concerned about our obesity epidemic, and healthcare crisis.

Rheumatoid Arthritis designer drugs, biologics are revolutionalizing the disease. You know how much they cost? 20 grand a year for one person.

We shouldnt be thinking about anything else right now than healthcare.



IF...the food supply burns away, that will lessen the obesity epidemic.

#1156905 - 09/24/19 01:56 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Dec 2006
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niteshift Online content
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Hey All,

I live in Fiji, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Climate change is real.

Is it man made or just a blip in nature ? I have no idea, but anything anyone does to reduce pollution and stop trashing our once beautiful planet, I fully support.

cheers, niteshift

#1156908 - 09/24/19 02:32 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Gavin, Kevin, Mike, Liberals.....

Martin, Couchgrouch, Ray, Sue, Conservatives....

Am i wrong? You know how id know even if I didnt know? By what they say about Global Warming

Isnt that a bit like why 66% of blacks thought OJ was innocent but 66% of Whites thought he was guilty...it was ALMOST as easy as looking at the color of ones skin and knowing what they thought about it.

Shrugs...


FD,

Actually, climate change is uniting both parties, in essence, but not in it's urgency.

A majority of Republicans now DO believe climate change is a reality. It's just an overwhelming majority that, when polled, think it's not a big deal at this time..It's a much smaller percentage of Republicans that believe it to be a hoax or conspiracy.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/climate/republicans-global-warming-maps.html

Of course, I am sure "alternative facts" can be found to support anything at this point.

That's why everything boils down to a leap of faith. Doublespeak can find a way to make us believe the most obvious scientific facts are "fake facts."





Well, so far anybody here with identifiable political leanings have supported my theory. I dont think most people believe climate change is real, what I do believe is people believe or disbelieve based on what source tells them. If you only watch fox news, guess what your opinion will be, if you only watch cnn guess as well.

No matter what side you take, we dont realize that our "sides" are so biased. I know Dems who will vote Dem no matter what the situation is. I also know Repubs who do the same. Whether its good for the country or not, whether the candidate is a murderer, felon, predator, none of that matters, they vote their party no matter what.

Cant tell you how un American that actually is, and how stupid it actually is.

I also think we need more than two points of view, last election I thought both Trump and Hillary were jokes of candidates. I was saying in the entire country we cant find two better candidates than that?

How this applies to Global Warming..... As I wrote, I can tell what party the person belongs to just by how they feel about Global Warming

I say its a scientific question that educated scientists should be debating. Once they figure it out, then lets go for legislation, lets not let our politicians decide if its real or not.

We might as well let politicians write and record our music for us too.

I agree spin and doublespeak can change many opinions. That's why I say lets let the scientists figure it out. Lets make it a proven fact, and then try to find a solution.

As I wrote, we dont even have "proof" that a high fat diet is bad for you, many think it;s good for you, educated Harvard and Yale Scientists are still debating this

Here is what we already know. Obesity, way bigger problem RIGHT now than Global Warming. https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/obesity/obesity-america-growing-concern.

Health Care is going to bankrupt us before we could even figure out a way to change Climate.

Gun Violence is getting so bad, all of our children will be shot at school before they figure out if climate change is hurting us

If Im a presidential candidate, I dont even mention Global Warming, not till the more important stuff is brought up.





Hi FD,

I can understand your frustration.

And I like how you put things, that climate change may be important, but certainly not as important as health care, gun violence, etc. at the present time..

It's a chicken/egg thing..do we choose to watch CNN or Fox News because we want to hear agreement about the things we already believe..or do watch CNN or Fox News because we perhaps unintentionally are allowing them to fill our heads with their stances towards issues that we have no clear opinions on before watching...

I'm sure there are liberals that watch Fox News and conservatives that watch CNN. Mainly cuz many folks love to "hate watch."

But your point is taken..

I know for myself and many artists who really stay away from most news sources end up either hunting information down for themselves, but do get skeptical if it's a sketchy source..or..we look at other people and choose which "side" we are on based on who we think has the facts and speaks the truth, and then backwards engineer from that. This latter method pretty much goes along with what you were saying, and I'm not proud of the fact that some of my "beliefs" are not very well informed and that I have looked at people and made decisions based on who I simply "liked" and believed were speaking the truth..

I mean, unless we choose to major in climatology at university, aren't we all, to some degree, putting our faith in other sources of information? Leap of faith..

And I think the worse offense is that some folks can glean a few facts about a subject and think they are well-informed. There's a LOT of that these days. Thanks, Internet!

As far as climate change goes..I also am not very well informed, but take a "leap of faith" as we must do with most issues..that there are people who know better than me, and that a shortcut to knowing stuff first-hand which can be time consuming (and still involves a leap-of-faith as to authenticity of the facts and source of the facts) can be to figure who the truth speaking voices are..and I am sure those that fancy themselves "conservatives" find a different source they find to be speaking the truth. Daunting and perplexing stuff..what came first my proir beliefs which I then seek out like-minded sources, or sources who I simply identify with and choose to let them inform my opinions..chicken..egg..

I know most of us want to believe we are hunters of information and are totally in control and in charge of what we believe, not the other way around..but your posts have made me think about that..so thanks for that..

But this chicken egg conundrum.. I don't think we can ever know, cuz at root it's a deep philosophical problem, along the lines of "do we really have free will" and "can we really experience anything objectively?"

Side note.. I noticed you lumped Marty in with conservatives cuz he took the same stance as Rob, 90dB, Tony, etc..But Marty clearly stated that he hasn't formed a solid opinion because he's not very well informed on the subject of climate change. So you can't lump him in and say you can guess his idealogy based on his climate-change-stance. And every "conservative" here has a slightly different stance. SOme believe it's a hoax or a religion or not real, while others think it's real, but just not so important. SO polling us locally on this issue would really show no clear division along ideaological lines, and that is no different than the Nation-wide polls..But as to urgency, there's the rub. There's where a clear division is apparent.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/24/19 03:28 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156909 - 09/24/19 02:58 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,568
Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,568
Crozet, VA
Heat Wave

Well Iím asphalt bound
On the California coast
Heading up to Sausalito
Smokes on the horizon
Fireís in the air
Itís hotter than a jalapeŮo

Just another heat wave
Seems like we have them all the time
Not to worry, says EPA
The climateís doing fine

itís scorched out west
Tornadoes in the heartland
And storms in the Caribbean
Setting records left and right
No end in sight
Itís like a nuclear north Korean


Just another heat wave
Seems like we have them all the time
Not to worry, says EPA
The climateís doing fine
The climateís doing fine
I got mine Iím doing fine


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1156910 - 09/24/19 03:57 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,609
Martin Lide Offline
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Martin Lide  Offline
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Posts: 1,609
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Gavin, Kevin, Mike, Liberals.....

Martin, Couchgrouch, Ray, Sue, Conservatives....

Am i wrong? You know how id know even if I didnt know? By what they say about Global Warming

Isnt that a bit like why 66% of blacks thought OJ was innocent but 66% of Whites thought he was guilty...it was ALMOST as easy as looking at the color of ones skin and knowing what they thought about it.

Shrugs...



No. You are not truly correct. I am conservative but not "in the camp" on this issue or abortion rights.

I am concerned that climate change is happening but uncertain of it's extent. Therefore, not denying it.
I am unconcerned with who is getting an abortion.

For your records.

#1156911 - 09/24/19 03:59 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Martin Lide]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
This thing is still going....

The weather and most all energy originates with the sun.
The next biggest factors are the tilt of the earth and the rotation.
Then comes a mountain of detail.

The questions are...
Does the earth's atmosphere accumulate and retain carbon emissions?
Are those emissions enough to have an an affect on the natural weather patterns?
Are those effects enough to heat the planet and detroy the food supply?


If you say that they can't.... there is no way for your to know that, other than accepting someone else's viewpoint.
If you say that they can....same thing.

If you have no concern at all, I personally regard you as pointlessly oblivious.
There is reason for a reasonable person to be concerned.

And according to the climate changers, the die is cast and the ride is a locked in.\
Hope for the best.

Politically speaking....It would have done nothing about it to create a slush fund for 3rd world dictators to pilfer. That was just a circle jerk.

get your news here.

Marty




Im more concerned about our obesity epidemic, and healthcare crisis.

Rheumatoid Arthritis designer drugs, biologics are revolutionalizing the disease. You know how much they cost? 20 grand a year for one person.

We shouldnt be thinking about anything else right now than healthcare.



IF...the food supply burns away, that will lessen the obesity epidemic.


Or we can execute all skinny people so that obese people will seem normal.... lol

#1156913 - 09/24/19 04:09 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Gavin, Kevin, Mike, Liberals.....

Martin, Couchgrouch, Ray, Sue, Conservatives....

Am i wrong? You know how id know even if I didnt know? By what they say about Global Warming

Isnt that a bit like why 66% of blacks thought OJ was innocent but 66% of Whites thought he was guilty...it was ALMOST as easy as looking at the color of ones skin and knowing what they thought about it.

Shrugs...


FD,

Actually, climate change is uniting both parties, in essence, but not in it's urgency.

A majority of Republicans now DO believe climate change is a reality. It's just an overwhelming majority that, when polled, think it's not a big deal at this time..It's a much smaller percentage of Republicans that believe it to be a hoax or conspiracy.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/climate/republicans-global-warming-maps.html

Of course, I am sure "alternative facts" can be found to support anything at this point.

That's why everything boils down to a leap of faith. Doublespeak can find a way to make us believe the most obvious scientific facts are "fake facts."





Well, so far anybody here with identifiable political leanings have supported my theory. I dont think most people believe climate change is real, what I do believe is people believe or disbelieve based on what source tells them. If you only watch fox news, guess what your opinion will be, if you only watch cnn guess as well.

No matter what side you take, we dont realize that our "sides" are so biased. I know Dems who will vote Dem no matter what the situation is. I also know Repubs who do the same. Whether its good for the country or not, whether the candidate is a murderer, felon, predator, none of that matters, they vote their party no matter what.

Cant tell you how un American that actually is, and how stupid it actually is.

I also think we need more than two points of view, last election I thought both Trump and Hillary were jokes of candidates. I was saying in the entire country we cant find two better candidates than that?

How this applies to Global Warming..... As I wrote, I can tell what party the person belongs to just by how they feel about Global Warming

I say its a scientific question that educated scientists should be debating. Once they figure it out, then lets go for legislation, lets not let our politicians decide if its real or not.

We might as well let politicians write and record our music for us too.

I agree spin and doublespeak can change many opinions. That's why I say lets let the scientists figure it out. Lets make it a proven fact, and then try to find a solution.

As I wrote, we dont even have "proof" that a high fat diet is bad for you, many think it's good for you, educated Harvard and Yale Scientists are still debating this

Here is what we already know. Obesity, way bigger problem RIGHT now than Global Warming. https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/obesity/obesity-america-growing-concern.

Health Care is going to bankrupt us before we could even figure out a way to change Climate.

Gun Violence is getting so bad, all of our children will be shot at school before they figure out if climate change is hurting us

If Im a presidential candidate, I dont even mention Global Warming, not till the more important stuff is brought up.






Hi FD,

I can understand your frustration.

And I like how you put things, that climate change may be important, but certainly not as important as health care, gun violence, etc. at the present time..

It's a chicken/egg thing..do we choose to watch CNN or Fox News because we want to hear agreement about the things we already believe..or do watch CNN or Fox News because we perhaps unintentionally are allowing them to fill our heads with their stances towards issues that we have no clear opinions on before watching...

I'm sure there are liberals that watch Fox News and conservatives that watch CNN. Mainly cuz many folks love to "hate watch."

But your point is taken..

I know for myself and many artists who really stay away from most news sources end up either hunting information down for themselves, but do get skeptical if it's a sketchy source..or..we look at other people and choose which "side" we are on based on who we think has the facts and speaks the truth, and then backwards engineer from that. This latter method pretty much goes along with what you were saying, and I'm not proud of the fact that some of my "beliefs" are not very well informed and that I have looked at people and made decisions based on who I simply "liked" and believed were speaking the truth..

I mean, unless we choose to major in climatology at university, aren't we all, to some degree, putting our faith in other sources of information? Leap of faith..

And I think the worse offense is that some folks can glean a few facts about a subject and think they are well-informed. There's a LOT of that these days. Thanks, Internet!

As far as climate change goes..I also am not very well informed, but take a "leap of faith" as we must do with most issues..that there are people who know better than me, and that a shortcut to knowing stuff first-hand which can be time consuming (and still involves a leap-of-faith as to authenticity of the facts and source of the facts) can be to figure who the truth speaking voices are..and I am sure those that fancy themselves "conservatives" find a different source they find to be speaking the truth. Daunting and perplexing stuff..what came first my proir beliefs which I then seek out like-minded sources, or sources who I simply identify with and choose to let them inform my opinions..chicken..egg..

I know most of us want to believe we are hunters of information and are totally in control and in charge of what we believe, not the other way around..but your posts have made me think about that..so thanks for that..

But this chicken egg conundrum.. I don't think we can ever know, cuz at root it's a deep philosophical problem, along the lines of "do we really have free will" and "can we really experience anything objectively?"

Side note.. I noticed you lumped Marty in with conservatives cuz he took the same stance as Rob, 90dB, Tony, etc..But Marty clearly stated that he hasn't formed a solid opinion because he's not very well informed on the subject of climate change. So you can't lump him in and say you can guess his idealogy based on his climate-change-stance. And every "conservative" here has a slightly different stance. SOme believe it's a hoax or a religion or not real, while others think it's real, but just not so important. SO polling us locally on this issue would really show no clear division along ideaological lines, and that is no different than the Nation-wide polls..But as to urgency, there's the rub. There's where a clear division is apparent.

Mike



Yea there are still individual thoughts, and that's a good thing. But the fact that i'm able to know who leans which way, has alot to do with what they say about issues.

It's a science question, plain and simple, yet it's a democrat and republican, liberal/conservative issue for reasons not fully understood.

I mentioned earlier, Galileo was placed on house arrest for stating the Earth orbited the Sun. The Catholic church called it blasphemy because if the Earth revolves around the sun, it's not any more special than any other planet, and this conflicted with the teaching of the church.

Point being, it shouldnt have been a religious or legal issue at all, it was a science issue, and science won in the end. No denying today he was right.

Btw, the Church has executed many such people, all in the name of God!

Imagine they had that power today? Who would they execute on the Global Warming issue? It would have been thought the warming was caused by God, and anybody who suggested otherwise would be in trouble.

My personal belief is God somehow was involved in creation, but he doesnt interfere, it's pretty clear he runs an open ended world. That doesnt dismiss Him in my view.

Also have to figure out by what we mean by God too.




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/24/19 04:28 PM.
#1156914 - 09/24/19 04:17 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Martin Lide]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Gavin, Kevin, Mike, Liberals.....

Martin, Couchgrouch, Ray, Sue, Conservatives....

Am i wrong? You know how id know even if I didnt know? By what they say about Global Warming

Isnt that a bit like why 66% of blacks thought OJ was innocent but 66% of Whites thought he was guilty...it was ALMOST as easy as looking at the color of ones skin and knowing what they thought about it.

Shrugs...



No. You are not truly correct. I am conservative but not "in the camp" on this issue or abortion rights.

I am concerned that climate change is happening but uncertain of it's extent. Therefore, not denying it.
I am unconcerned with who is getting an abortion.

For your records.



Ok im not saying it's an exact science, but when I read Sue's comment that she had a meteorology friend who says there's no Global Warming, it drew to mind her stances on many things discussed here. If she was liberal, that meteorologist wouldnt have been mentioned or maybe even goofed on. Im pretty sure she's conservative.

But If you read Rays posts, you wouldnt have to dig too hard to know he's conservative and speaks from a conservative/republican mindset. And hes entitled to his own mindset

My point is our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them.

If we were born into a KKK family, were going to think we're right. Often takes a mountain to move such beliefs.

Anyway Dem or Republican, nothing really changes. My estimation is if we went to Universal Healthcare it would mark the first real major change in our country.

I dont know how it would work, or if it will work, there are doubts, but we need to do something.




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/25/19 11:07 AM.
#1156916 - 09/24/19 05:38 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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I'm a vet and I'm disabled, "but not service related".........a'hem. If you want to know what universal healthcare would look like in this country, just go to the VA.

#1156917 - 09/24/19 06:07 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Heat Wave

Well Iím asphalt bound
On the California coast
Heading up to Sausalito
Smokes on the horizon
Fireís in the air
Itís hotter than a jalapeŮo

Just another heat wave
Seems like we have them all the time
Not to worry, says EPA
The climateís doing fine

itís scorched out west
Tornadoes in the heartland
And storms in the Caribbean
Setting records left and right
No end in sight
Itís like a nuclear north Korean


Just another heat wave
Seems like we have them all the time
Not to worry, says EPA
The climateís doing fine
The climateís doing fine
I got mine Iím doing fine



Ummm....... Sorry Kevin, but I happen to know that the EPA has sat squarely behind "greenhouse emissions and global warming" for longer than most folks realize....... Theyíre the last that would say everything is OK, they wouldnít slit their own throats like that...

#1156918 - 09/24/19 06:44 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Martin Lide]  
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JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Gavin, Kevin, Mike, Liberals.....

Martin, Couchgrouch, Ray, Sue, Conservatives....

Am i wrong? You know how id know even if I didnt know? By what they say about Global Warming

Isnt that a bit like why 66% of blacks thought OJ was innocent but 66% of Whites thought he was guilty...it was ALMOST as easy as looking at the color of ones skin and knowing what they thought about it.

Shrugs...



No. You are not truly correct. I am conservative but not "in the camp" on this issue or abortion rights.

I am concerned that climate change is happening but uncertain of it's extent. Therefore, not denying it.
I am unconcerned with who is getting an abortion.

For your records.





Lol.... I've often said that myself. Itís obviously not the conservative Christians having abortions so...... why not just let the liberals do what they want with their unborn children?

#1156919 - 09/24/19 07:11 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


Yea there are still individual thoughts, and that's a good thing. But the fact that i'm able to know who leans which way, has alot to do with what they say about issues.


Careful not to go too"broad" with this statement, because it falls apart if you are wanting to generalize and say, "I can know what party you belong to based on how you feel about issues" because that's a tautology, because how one feels about issues is exactly what defines one's party affiliation.

Few people actually study political science to figure out their "leanings" but simply discover them by looking at the consensus of how they feel on different issues. If I believe climate change is an important issue and think there should be no wall and that pot should be legalized, I am probably gonna vote that way, and it's how we vote that is the ultimate test as to our leanings. We can say anything, but when we vote, that's really what defines our affiliation.

But you are safe to say that how we feel about climate change should not be party defined, but science defined--THAT seems like a solid statement, and I agree with that. If only everyone agreed on the legitimacy of certain findings and illegitimacy of other findings, there would be no divisiveness.. wink

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
My estimation is if we went to Universal Healthcare it would mark the first real major change in our country.

I dont know how it would work, or if it will work, there are doubts, but we need to do something.


Amen, brother.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/24/19 10:08 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156920 - 09/24/19 07:21 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: JAPOV]  
Joined: Aug 2007
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Martin Lide Offline
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Martin Lide  Offline
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Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by JAPOV




Lol.... I've often said that myself. Itís obviously not the conservative Christians having abortions so...... why not just let the liberals do what they want with their unborn children?



Well, there's that. smile

For me, it's just an issue that I care not to partake in or argue over. I reserve the right to be oblivious...sometimes. wink

#1156923 - 09/24/19 07:53 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: JAPOV]  
Joined: May 2017
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Gavin, Kevin, Mike, Liberals.....

Martin, Couchgrouch, Ray, Sue, Conservatives....

Am i wrong? You know how id know even if I didnt know? By what they say about Global Warming

Isnt that a bit like why 66% of blacks thought OJ was innocent but 66% of Whites thought he was guilty...it was ALMOST as easy as looking at the color of ones skin and knowing what they thought about it.

Shrugs...



No. You are not truly correct. I am conservative but not "in the camp" on this issue or abortion rights.

I am concerned that climate change is happening but uncertain of it's extent. Therefore, not denying it.
I am unconcerned with who is getting an abortion.

For your records.





Lol.... I've often said that myself. Itís obviously not the conservative Christians having abortions so...... why not just let the liberals do what they want with their unborn children?


I suspect (with no proof) that there are more "conservative Christians" who have abortions than you might think. So many people of all kinds are not who they present themselves as to the world, especially when life doesn't go as planned.

#1156927 - 09/24/19 09:19 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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JAPOV Offline
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There are always exceptions to the rule Gavin. But if you canít plainly see that today there are far too many exceptions, and that sets a poor example and bad precedent for everyone.... then I donít have a clue what to say to you. The Biblical example is simple, a mother should possess genuine concern for the welfare of her child 1 Kings 3:16. But I do empathize with children today who are given free access to condoms and taught that homosexuality is a perfectly natural alternative lifestyle....

#1156928 - 09/24/19 10:08 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio

...when I read Sue's comment that she had a weather man friend who says there's no Global Warming, it drew to mind her stances on many things discussed here. If she was liberal, that weatherman wouldnt have been mentioned or maybe even goofed on. Im pretty sure she's conservative.

But If you read Rays posts, you wouldnt have to dig too hard to know he's conservative and speaks from a conservative/republican mindset. And hes entitled to his own mindset

My point is our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them.


I don't agree with "My point is our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them."

By "them" you must mean our 'stances on issues'. It makes me imagine a National Enquirer headline:

Scientists discover new "liberal" and new "conservative" gene!

How would you account then, for people who are moderates or centrists and cherry pick things from both sides? Or those that change party affiliations? Or when the issues themselves are deadlocked as to official stance within a party?

Like your Jesuit priest (I love the Jesuits) I believe the "truth lies somewhere in the middle" and much of America is still comprised of "rugged individualists" who think for themselves and only adopt a liberal or conservative moniker after noting the pattern of how they feel on various issues. And I think most folks are like Marty who look at each issue individually and choose to think for themselves about how they feel. And to say all that is "predetermined" cancels out the fact that we've all been living various lives that inform how we feel about stuff. To borrow from Rob, I could easily imagine it is only the small minority of folks who have made a religion out of their political philosophy that actually have pre-determined leanings concerning today's issues, and then issues forthcoming and unseen.

But I agree with you wholeheartedly that it's this "us against them" mentality that is making things worse, not better. Compassion and dialogue have been replaced by hatred and invective.

And sometimes it's plain, old-fashioned stubbornness that can keep us holding onto something past its expiration date. Both you and I can understand that, I think. I know I can be very stubborn. But If, despite my dialogue with you, you find yourself clinging to the notion that all our leanings are pre-determined by the what? The great aura of the liberal or conservative mindset?..perhaps it's your own personal stubbornness to let go of that idea that is getting in the way of maybe seeing it could be the other way around? That each of our personal existences are like snowflakes and we all arrive at who we are and how we feel about things based on those experiences. Not because of some "conservative" or "liberal" gene..and experiences RARELY throw us totally into one camp or another..and it's not a closed system. We are still alive, still taking in new experience. How we feel on some issues can change, irregardless of party stance.

Just my humble opinion..

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/24/19 10:27 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156929 - 09/24/19 10:32 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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JAPOV Offline
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"Snowflakes........" Nailed it Mike!

Whatís truly at the heart of all political debate is morality. Whatís always at stake is who's going to possess the power and authority to either enforce it, or simply acknowledge and defend it. "Climate Change" is really a common sense example if you think about it. How many laws already exist to stop big industry from polluting the planet? Why do we need a new faction of government and new laws to enforce the laws that already exist?

#1156937 - 09/25/19 09:48 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio

...when I read Sue's comment that she had a weather man friend who says there's no Global Warming, it drew to mind her stances on many things discussed here. If she was liberal, that weatherman wouldnt have been mentioned or maybe even goofed on. Im pretty sure she's conservative.

But If you read Rays posts, you wouldnt have to dig too hard to know he's conservative and speaks from a conservative/republican mindset. And hes entitled to his own mindset

My point is our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them.


I don't agree with "My point is our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them."

By "them" you must mean our 'stances on issues'. It makes me imagine a National Enquirer headline:

Scientists discover new "liberal" and new "conservative" gene!

How would you account then, for people who are moderates or centrists and cherry pick things from both sides? Or those that change party affiliations? Or when the issues themselves are deadlocked as to official stance within a party?

Like your Jesuit priest (I love the Jesuits) I believe the "truth lies somewhere in the middle" and much of America is still comprised of "rugged individualists" who think for themselves and only adopt a liberal or conservative moniker after noting the pattern of how they feel on various issues. And I think most folks are like Marty who look at each issue individually and choose to think for themselves about how they feel. And to say all that is "predetermined" cancels out the fact that we've all been living various lives that inform how we feel about stuff. To borrow from Rob, I could easily imagine it is only the small minority of folks who have made a religion out of their political philosophy that actually have pre-determined leanings concerning today's issues, and then issues forthcoming and unseen.

But I agree with you wholeheartedly that it's this "us against them" mentality that is making things worse, not better. Compassion and dialogue have been replaced by hatred and invective.

And sometimes it's plain, old-fashioned stubbornness that can keep us holding onto something past its expiration date. Both you and I can understand that, I think. I know I can be very stubborn. But If, despite my dialogue with you, you find yourself clinging to the notion that all our leanings are pre-determined by the what? The great aura of the liberal or conservative mindset?..perhaps it's your own personal stubbornness to let go of that idea that is getting in the way of maybe seeing it could be the other way around? That each of our personal existences are like snowflakes and we all arrive at who we are and how we feel about things based on those experiences. Not because of some "conservative" or "liberal" gene..and experiences RARELY throw us totally into one camp or another..and it's not a closed system. We are still alive, still taking in new experience. How we feel on some issues can change, irregardless of party stance.

Just my humble opinion..


Mike, I can see you are trying to be diplomatic and I know people respect people who try to see things fairly. When my Dad passed, at his wake i had all these people i had never seen before telling me how he was. I'm like "gee, really? i might have a clue what hes like too growing up in his house" He was very diplomatic, and really, never had a bad word to say about anybody, he had a live and let live mentality and didnt believe in judging people. HOWEVER, if you WRONGED him in any way, didnt give him the same courtesy, he would flip out. The quiet unassuming man was all in with a sleeves rolled up stance. There was that time when a gas attendent... well never mind

Not everybody saw that side. But, if he felt somebody was being picked on, he'd back that person and go to battle for anyone he thought was being treated unfairly. A very good man in my opinion.

But, I still stand behind my beliefs. Let me put it in another way. There is a republican point of view, there is a democrat point of view. If any of us becomes one, we adapted to IT, it didn't adapt to us. It was already there. Love is already there, we either accept and add to it, or we go against it. Hate is already there, we either join the club or find another club.

That is what I meant, nobody invented being Republican, at least nobody in modern times. It's an ideology that we grow into, likewise Democrat. There is a reason why swing states are so important in elections, because for most of the country their mind is already made up. Also genetics and upbringing strongly affect how we will see the world.

Why is it Catholic people when they have visions see Mary, but Hindu's see Chrishna. Jews see Moses, and Arabs see Mohammad. At near death they all report it.

It's how we are wired determines what we see and believe.

People do change viewpoints, and its not impossible, but you gotta admit, Archie Bunker was never going to agree with Meathead!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/25/19 09:52 AM.
#1156941 - 09/25/19 10:33 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,313
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Posts: 7,313
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Uh, Well, Lessee here,
In the old days they used to say, somebody needs to keep the Trains running on time. I say Conservatives keep the Trains running on time, Liberals ride the trains. In other words without conservatives all those liberals would have to walk. Not totally true of course. In the real old days they used to say, if wishes were horses beggers would ride. I understand Rome rotted from the inside out because no one was watching the store so to speak. Here we do have someone minding to store in spite of all the deniers out there. Geronimo!


Ray E. Strode
#1156942 - 09/25/19 10:46 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Kolstad Offline
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Kolstad  Offline
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Posts: 3,813
Denmark
I think many people donít understand science at all. Science is not some personal viewpoints that has become popular, it is trial and tested, undeniable facts. If it were not, it isnít science.

Around here, people who can only hear what they think themselves, are the ďcultĒ members. People in cults just agree on believing outrageous ideas, with no scientific basis at all. To me that is the characteristics of crazy.

What regular people think wont determine the outcome of this, politicians (no matter who they represent) may have a chance to help some people, though, as they can draw up new rules. Most of the world seems to be in denial right now.. next reaction pattern might be anger. This is the stuff wars are made of.


Buzz Tracks
Making media sweeter

Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/buzztracks
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/buzztracks
#1156943 - 09/25/19 10:46 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Uh, Well, Lessee here,
In the old days they used to say, somebody needs to keep the Trains running on time. I say Conservatives keep the Trains running on time, Liberals ride the trains. In other words without conservatives all those liberals would have to walk. Not totally true of course. In the real old days they used to say, if wishes were horses beggers would ride. I understand Rome rotted from the inside out because no one was watching the store so to speak. Here we do have someone minding to store in spite of all the deniers out there. Geronimo!


R.E.M. wrote "What's the frequency Kenneth....." do I need to say more?


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/25/19 10:47 AM.
#1156944 - 09/25/19 10:47 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,067
Scott Campbell Offline
Scott Campbell  Offline

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Posts: 12,067
Lakeland, FL, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Uh, Well, Lessee here,
In the old days they used to say, somebody needs to keep the Trains running on time. I say Conservatives keep the Trains running on time, Liberals ride the trains. In other words without conservatives all those liberals would have to walk. Not totally true of course.


And without engineers and scientists, everybody's walking grin

#1156945 - 09/25/19 11:30 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Posts: 5,089
California
FD,

There are liberal and conservative ideologies that have existed from the time we are born, sure, and may, as you say, exist eternally beyond time, hell why not, but I believe most everyday folks choose candidates based on their own personal stances on issues that matter to them, not because they "belong to one group or another."

It seemed like you based your generalization that "our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them." --based on a sampling of 8 songwriters over 60 who belong to the same club and then one of them didn't fit and you ignored that at first--too small a sampling for a legitimate poll.

I mean, I walked out my front door and saw..

10 Catholic caregivers, liberal but anti-abortion
2 Feminist police officers, pro-abortion but against the wall
3 men from El Paso, for the wall but quite liberal
An anti-gun rally, sponsored by conservatives

and its a hard..hard...hard--oh it's a hard rain gonna fall...

Point is..if you think life, and important things that happen in our life don't inform our opinions, you haven't proved it to me yet. You have only asserted that idealogical beliefs exist, outside of time, just like the concept of love. That is an interesting thing to consider. But I think at the practical level, most folks are not political scientists and choose candidates that embody their stances on a constellation of issues that matter to them. Otherwise why listen to them debate?

One thing I think we can agree on:

Anyone that does form their opinion on something only after seeing what a CNN or a FOX news has to say is pretty pathetic!

Though I imagine few would admit to that, and many more would feel insulted.


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/25/19 12:42 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156946 - 09/25/19 11:34 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Scott, Kolstad,

There's indeed no argument over science.

Except (as Kolstad noted) that some people make it so by siting "alternative facts" from alternative sources.

This is a modern problem and the Internet plays a big part of that.

It seems like "reality" is now what people choose to believe it is..instead of having some terra firma beyond our own individual, sometimes arcane thoughts and beliefs that some blogger in Sheboygan is in agreement with.

This is a big overarching problem of the modern era that creates all this chaos and makes discourse impossible with some people..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/25/19 01:29 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156947 - 09/25/19 11:43 AM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Posts: 5,089
California
Lastly, FD..

there's really no argument with you over the issues. None of them..

As I said before I said anything else..

It's like the name of my new Shoe Gazer band, a

"Chicken Egg Conundrum"

--and we could argue about it all day, but let's not, okay?

I'll think about your Platonic ideas concerning political idealogies..

But please, let's not argue over "which came first" ...


Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/25/19 11:54 AM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156953 - 09/25/19 01:23 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Yea, what Mike said.......... If you donít have an opinion then youíre not worth arguing with....

#1156954 - 09/25/19 01:26 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Posts: 5,089
California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
When my Dad passed, at his wake i had all these people i had never seen before telling me how he was. I'm like "gee, really? i might have a clue what hes like too growing up in his house" He was very diplomatic, and really, never had a bad word to say about anybody, he had a live and let live mentality and didnt believe in judging people. HOWEVER, if you WRONGED him in any way, didnt give him the same courtesy, he would flip out. The quiet unassuming man was all in with a sleeves rolled up stance. There was that time when a gas attendent... well never mind

Not everybody saw that side. But, if he felt somebody was being picked on, he'd back that person and go to battle for anyone he thought was being treated unfairly. A very good man in my opinion.




You are a lot like your dad. As you talk about his traits I can see that you embody them to a great degree. I appreciate your letting down your guard and being personal. Thanks for that.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/25/19 01:27 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156958 - 09/25/19 01:36 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: couchgrouch]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Mark Kaufman Offline
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Minneapolis
This is an interesting study of genes and leanings: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-genes-of-left-and-right/

She said I like the way he leans
He said I like what's in her genes

#1156961 - 09/25/19 02:12 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Mathew 24 tells what it will be like in the last days. Whether it is climate change that causes all the seas to be raging or not remains to be seen. The bible also says that man will curse God because of the heat. It seem our summers in some parts of the world are hitting temperatures never seen before. In Revelations it says unless these days be shortened there will be no flesh left alive. In the last days this world is going to go through terrible times, weather wise, wars, famine, disease, death and destruction, upheaval of all kinds, I believe we have already started but it will gain in intensity as time goes by. But for those that believe, look up, your redemption draws nigh.



It's hard being so far ahead of the curve that no one can hear you.....

#1156962 - 09/25/19 03:15 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Jul 2006
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Hi Mark,

wow...

That was very informative, and I understand some psychology so I could follow what was said.

So it's not a clear cut nature or nurture thing. I can accept that. I DO think, still, that experience has the most powerful say in how we feel about issues.

A conservative woman who is raped and impregnated has every reason to have a new understanding of having the right to abort that fetus.

A conservative caregiver who sees the benefit of medical marijuana can see the benefits of wanting it legalized..

A conservative with a long time Hispanic maid who is saving up to get her dad into this country might be softer on immigration.

A liberal in El Paso who's son was murdered by a drug cartel might want that wall built.

I could go on and on..but we all have different lives and different circumstances and events can carry great weight in shaping how we feel on issues, and then on those candidates that embody those issues.

This is not to say that we aren't born leaning one way or another, as that study makes a very interesting case for.

If it was true, that all our stances on all issues were pre-ordained, written in our genes, even if it was true, it would be a very unpopular idea--to think that our actions really were not our "own."

Spoiler alert...It reminds me of the movie, "Network," and Arthur Jensen's (Ned Beatty) "You have meddled with the primal forces of nature" speech in which he tells Howard Beale to spread his message of how "the individual is dead and corporations are the new nations"--and then Beale does so on his show, the ratings plummet, and he's assassinated for his low ratings, lol.

To think that we really aren't choosing when we think we are is as depressing as Beale's last monologue:

What is finished is the idea that this great country is dedicated to the freedom and flourishing of every individual in it. It's the individual that's finished. It's the single, solitary human being that's finished. It's every single one of you out there that's finished. Because this is no longer a nation of independent individuals. It's a nation of some two hundred odd million transistorized, deodorized, whiter-than-white, steel-belted bodies, totally unnecessary as human beings and as replaceable as piston rods.
Well, the time has come to say is 'dehumanization' such a bad word?' Whether it's good or bad, that's what is so. The whole world is becoming humanoid, creatures that look human but aren't. The whole world, not just us. We're just the most advanced country, so we're getting there first. The whole world's people are becoming mass-produced, programmed, numbered, insensate things.


Very prescient of Paddy Cheyesky. Very ahead of the curve for 1976..but very depressing to think about.

We as human beings at least need to hold onto the idea that our personal experience informs what we think about certain issues that mean a lot to us. We may have inherent leanings one way or the other and we may be bucking them, if we are making liberal choices with conservative genes, and vice-versa for conservative choices with liberal genes. But it may be a necessary fight and a good fight, brought on but our various experiences and how they can change how we think about stuff..

It's like..the difference between reading a book about life..and living a life..

Even if that book we read encapsulates our ancestral DNA and the story it tells..

That book holds far less weight in terms of IMPACT on that person..


Mike

*******************************************************************

Arthur Jensen's monologue:

http://www.monologuedb.com/dramatic-male-monologues/network-arthur-jensen/

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/25/19 03:49 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156963 - 09/25/19 03:48 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
FD,

There are liberal and conservative ideologies that have existed from the time we are born, sure, and may, as you say, exist eternally beyond time, hell why not, but I believe most everyday folks choose candidates based on their own personal stances on issues that matter to them, not because they "belong to one group or another."

It seemed like you based your generalization that "our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them." --based on a sampling of 8 songwriters over 60 who belong to the same club and then one of them didn't fit and you ignored that at first--too small a sampling for a legitimate poll.

I mean, I walked out my front door and saw..

10 Catholic caregivers, liberal but anti-abortion
2 Feminist police officers, pro-abortion but against the wall
3 men from El Paso, for the wall but quite liberal
An anti-gun rally, sponsored by conservatives

and its a hard..hard...hard--oh it's a hard rain gonna fall...

Point is..if you think life, and important things that happen in our life don't inform our opinions, you haven't proved it to me yet. You have only asserted that idealogical beliefs exist, outside of time, just like the concept of love. That is an interesting thing to consider. But I think at the practical level, most folks are not political scientists and choose candidates that embody their stances on a constellation of issues that matter to them. Otherwise why listen to them debate?

One thing I think we can agree on:

Anyone that does form their opinion on something only after seeing what a CNN or a FOX news has to say is pretty pathetic!

Though I imagine few would admit to that, and many more would feel insulted.



Mike, all im saying is, would it be outrageous to conclude that at LEAST 50% of Americans already know who they are voting for in 2020? By who, i mean what person represents the party? My feeling is the percentage is higher than that.

Life certainly filters our opinions.

#1156964 - 09/25/19 03:51 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
When my Dad passed, at his wake i had all these people i had never seen before telling me how he was. I'm like "gee, really? i might have a clue what hes like too growing up in his house" He was very diplomatic, and really, never had a bad word to say about anybody, he had a live and let live mentality and didnt believe in judging people. HOWEVER, if you WRONGED him in any way, didnt give him the same courtesy, he would flip out. The quiet unassuming man was all in with a sleeves rolled up stance. There was that time when a gas attendent... well never mind

Not everybody saw that side. But, if he felt somebody was being picked on, he'd back that person and go to battle for anyone he thought was being treated unfairly. A very good man in my opinion.




You are a lot like your dad. As you talk about his traits I can see that you embody them to a great degree. I appreciate your letting down your guard and being personal. Thanks for that.

Mike


Mom used to say she thought he was coming through the door, when I came through. We had the same build and same walk, my brother does too.

Maybe too much alike because my mother would end up between us on many occasions, her cute little face prevented me from throwing a punch lol

Your post brought a tear to my eye, you bastard....

#1156965 - 09/25/19 03:54 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
Top 50 Poster
Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
FD,

There are liberal and conservative ideologies that have existed from the time we are born, sure, and may, as you say, exist eternally beyond time, hell why not, but I believe most everyday folks choose candidates based on their own personal stances on issues that matter to them, not because they "belong to one group or another."

It seemed like you based your generalization that "our mindsets are usually cut out for us before we even adopt them." --based on a sampling of 8 songwriters over 60 who belong to the same club and then one of them didn't fit and you ignored that at first--too small a sampling for a legitimate poll.

I mean, I walked out my front door and saw..

10 Catholic caregivers, liberal but anti-abortion
2 Feminist police officers, pro-abortion but against the wall
3 men from El Paso, for the wall but quite liberal
An anti-gun rally, sponsored by conservatives

and its a hard..hard...hard--oh it's a hard rain gonna fall...

Point is..if you think life, and important things that happen in our life don't inform our opinions, you haven't proved it to me yet. You have only asserted that idealogical beliefs exist, outside of time, just like the concept of love. That is an interesting thing to consider. But I think at the practical level, most folks are not political scientists and choose candidates that embody their stances on a constellation of issues that matter to them. Otherwise why listen to them debate?

One thing I think we can agree on:

Anyone that does form their opinion on something only after seeing what a CNN or a FOX news has to say is pretty pathetic!

Though I imagine few would admit to that, and many more would feel insulted.



Mike, all im saying is, would it be outrageous to conclude that at LEAST 50% of Americans already know who they are voting for in 2020? By who, i mean what person represents the party? My feeling is the percentage is higher than that.

Life certainly filters our opinions.


We're good, bud. Check out Mark's link. Amazing stuff. It is you who are ahead of the curve on this one.. I am much better with psychology than philosophy, lol..

Later,

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 09/25/19 03:55 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1156966 - 09/25/19 03:59 PM Re: A word about my absence... [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
This is an interesting study of genes and leanings: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-genes-of-left-and-right/

She said I like the way he leans
He said I like what's in her genes


We're finding out more and more that genes govern many things, not just our eye color or whether or not we go bald, but how we behave and how we feel about many things.

As Mike said could be Nature verse Nurture in there.

I do know that they have done MRI's on cold blooded killers and some of them, a small percentage, but some have ZERO capacity for remorse. Completely unable to feel bad for the murders. And basicly say if let out they would do it again, because it doesnt bother them the way it does MOST people like 99%.

So now there is a whole new legal research going on, and some lawyers are already using this data to help clear their clients.

If they are incapable of stopping themselves from killing someone, how can we put them in jail?

My answer is to make sure somebody else doesnt get killed.

But it does bring the whole free will concept to light. Physics tells us free will does exist, for a damaged brain it probably doesnt matter

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