Who's Online Now
15 registered members (Everett Adams, couchgrouch, CWMusic, Jethro Aberdeen, CTthomas, Andy K, Gavin Sinclair, Dave Rice, 2 invisible), and 315 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Iggy
Iggy
Manheim, PA
Posts: 1,650
Joined: June 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Your Guitar (Now with alternate bridge)
by John W. Selleck. 08/04/20 10:39 PM
You Touched Me
by John W. Selleck. 08/04/20 10:11 PM
I Paint the Town
by John W. Selleck. 08/04/20 09:53 PM
Peace of Mind
by John W. Selleck. 08/04/20 09:42 PM
ChrisWMusic
by Gavin Sinclair. 08/04/20 05:50 PM
Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here
by John Lawrence Schick. 08/04/20 05:28 PM
Tell Me
by Travis david. 08/04/20 04:01 PM
Michelangelo/ re- write
by ckiphen. 08/04/20 03:38 PM
Don't Send My Ashes to My Exes /NEWER BRIDGE
by John W. Selleck. 08/04/20 01:51 PM
Natural Melodies?
by Fdemetrio. 08/04/20 09:27 AM
Piano (instrumental)
by Nigel Quin. 08/04/20 09:23 AM
::: FUNNY GROOVY SUMMERTIME :::
by Nigel Quin. 08/04/20 09:14 AM
BREATHING, GROWING
by Travis david. 08/04/20 08:06 AM
Runaway Train
by Marvin Adcock. 08/04/20 06:19 AM
Encore in the house of the Lord
by John W. Selleck. 08/04/20 04:09 AM
This is for collaboration
by Fdemetrio. 08/04/20 12:03 AM
The Knee
by John W. Selleck. 08/03/20 09:47 PM
60 Happy Years
by Brian Austin Whitney. 08/03/20 06:00 PM
I Been There
by Songbird52. 08/03/20 03:43 PM
Conversations In A Minor Key
by Gerry. 08/03/20 10:12 AM
Busy Finding me/ demo
by Gerry. 08/03/20 10:04 AM
DAY OF RECKONING
by Travis david. 08/02/20 05:30 PM
Woodsongs: Surviving The Pandemic
by Gary E. Andrews. 08/02/20 09:16 AM
Hi it's glyn (glen)
by glynda. 08/02/20 02:48 AM
Hi It's Glyn (glenda or glynda)
by glynda. 08/02/20 02:38 AM
SHOWCASE: LYRICS/SONGS/ESSAYS BY GARY E. ANDREWS
by Gary E. Andrews. 08/02/20 02:23 AM
limericks
by Gavin Sinclair. 08/01/20 06:50 PM
Hard World Waiting
by Songbird52. 08/01/20 05:31 PM
Isn't Love Grand Selleck/Kay Tango!
by John W. Selleck. 08/01/20 05:15 PM
Love her till they die
by ckiphen. 08/01/20 09:34 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,834
Travis david 11,920
Kevin Emmrich 10,663
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,845
glynda 8,679
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,909
couchgrouch 7,794
Dave Rice 7,757
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,618
Mark Kaufman 6,584
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
ben willis 6,107
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
niteshift 5,683
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,666
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,376
Roy Cooper 4,241
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,179
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,104
nightengale 4,096
MFB III 3,926
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,815
Dan Sullivan 3,710
beechnut79 3,580
E Swartz 3,515
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
Nigel Quin 2,846
MidniteBob 2,712
Nelson 2,603
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Fdemetrio 2,461
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,242
Judy Hollier 2,232
Wendy D 2,219
Erica Ellis 2,202
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Sunset Poet 2,031
Marty Helly 2,027
maccharles 1,988
DukeWill 1,988
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,650
Noel Downs 1,620
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
Jack Swain 1,554
GocartMoz 1,552
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,473
RogerS 1,471
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,408
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Deej56 1,314
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
Gerry 1,220
Glen King 1,214
IdeaGuy 1,209
lane1777 1,184
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,172
Diane Ewing 1,158
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
IronKnee 1,009
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
90 dB 943
9ne 930
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
ant 747
Andy K 746
tbryson 737
Andy Kemp 734
Jackie444 731
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Irwin 672
Katziis 652
Pat Hardy 641
Moosesong 640
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
JAPOV 563
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
R&M 527
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
ckiphen 429
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Cecilee 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
spidey 371
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1156328 - 09/07/19 05:30 AM Quantity Or Quality  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 240
Cheyenne Offline
Serious Contributor
Cheyenne  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 240
Florida U.S.A.
QUANTITY OR QUALITY


This is an interesting article written by Professor Gary Ewer


Back when the late Stan Good used to write
A Song Par Jour,on J P F, hardly any of those
Lyrics got turned into finish songs, nothing
wrong with that I’m sure most here would agree, however sadly Stan would hardly ever consider re writing a lyric, I only know that
because Stan and his wife stayed with us at our holiday home in FRANCE at least on two occasions, via a visit to their son who was studying at a French University for a couple of years,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article written by professor Gary Ewer

Getting lots of musical ideas is only good if they’re good ideas.
Ask yourself how many songs you think you should be writing, and why. If it is a hard question to answer, it’s because the number of songs you write is probably only important to you, and that should tell you something.

Think quality, not quantity. Like Sechter, no one will remember you for the number of songs you wrote. Songs that have any kind of longevity are ones that show that the writer had a true grasp of the fundamentals of good song structure. That has little to nothing to do with how much.

If quantity is still important to you, consider having several songs on the go at any one time. Having 3-5 songs in various stages of completion allows you to move from one to another as you “get stuck” with one. It’s probably your best way to move into the world of being prolific. (copyright by Gary Ewer)

(Back To Me)

I expect we all have varied views on this, I would add Stan never played a musical instrument , but it wasn’t for lack of trying
I woke up one morning and heard him trying to
Get a melody out of my Bass Guitar out on our
Patio

Good Old Days R I P Stan

P S Good memories, and I am certain Stan did finish a few songs in collaboration with older J P F members ?

Last edited by Cheyenne; 09/07/19 05:34 AM.

One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1156330 - 09/07/19 06:18 AM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,241
Roy Cooper Offline
Roy Cooper  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,241
Stan.. what a great person he was, always finding time for others. And never getting upset.
I know that many many people on JPF have fond memories of him.

R.I.P Stan and God Bless

From me and Helen who is now with you in Gods arms.

Roy


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1156333 - 09/07/19 10:46 AM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,475
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,475
PA
Good ol' Stan! I'll never forget his kindness.

[Linked Image]

John smile

#1156334 - 09/07/19 12:02 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,461
Fdemetrio Offline
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,461
I remember Stan, good guy.

Quantity or Quality for songwriting? Depends who you ask. Some say the only way to learn how to write good songs is to write alot of bad ones.

From what I understand, Springsteen's Darkness on The Edge of Town, originally had 70 songs written and only 10 made the album!

Writing alot of songs also enables you to use pieces of those songs for other songs. Plus writing alot keeps the engine running.

There's also the problem that nobody knows what a good song is.... but that's another story.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 09/07/19 12:36 PM.
#1156338 - 09/07/19 05:58 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,988
maccharles Online content
Top 200 Poster
maccharles  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,988
Quantity is an exercise on the path to quality, one learns ones strengths and abilities via quantity.

One will most assuredly reach some form of subjective quality only through the exercise of quantity.

Three cents.

#1156340 - 09/07/19 06:26 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,988
maccharles Online content
Top 200 Poster
maccharles  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,988
And by the way.....I miss Stan too.. ..he was so incredibly affable and.....well....stan.

#1156342 - 09/07/19 10:47 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 563
JAPOV Offline
Top 500 Poster
JAPOV  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 563
Lol.... I listen to great songs every day that will never make a cent or be played on the radio..... I guess that just makes me a poor critic smile

#1156344 - 09/07/19 11:55 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,794
couchgrouch Online content
Top 30 Poster
couchgrouch  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,794
The goal is quality.

Stan was a great guy, no question. But he posted hundreds of lyrics of very poor quality...no hooks/titles, wildly uneven meter rendering them unusable by composers, themes no one would ever want to sing etc, etc. He never improved. His lyrics weren't rungs on a ladder to quality.

JPF had many such posters back then. If you go back and read posts from 2004, you'll see weak lyrics with dozens of positive comments that went nowhere. An honest critique about writing to the hook, smoothing meter or structure was a rare bird, indeed.

Also rare from those days is a viable demo born of those lyrics. Part of being viable is a meter and structure where the
singer isn't forced to "talk" the lyric because it's unsingable. Verses that support a memorable hook. A theme that lends itself to a second vs and bridge that progress beyond the section that preceded it. Quantity means nothing without those things.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 09/08/19 12:11 AM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
#1156356 - 09/09/19 08:28 AM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,031
Sunset Poet Online content
Top 200 Poster
Sunset Poet  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,031
Houston, Texas
Personally

I think quantity is what people do when they lack focus and meaningful song ideas.

it's akin to the idea of achieving 25 years of experience at something, versus achieving one year of experience 25 times.

my 2 cents

#1156357 - 09/09/19 09:25 AM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,325
Michael LeBlanc Offline
Top 10 Poster
Michael LeBlanc  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,325
Louisiana
Quantity is what keeps my brain from going stagnant,it also holds "hooks or other useful lines" i can go back and steal from and write a quality lyric.RIP Stan.

#1156365 - 09/09/19 06:01 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,584
Mark Kaufman Offline
Mark Kaufman  Offline

Top 40 Poster

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,584
Minneapolis
Quality or Quantity?

The part of me that ultimately answers the question is The Editor. He sits there and judges, thumbs up or down, and is probably right. But he's also a boring drag who who can't write (too busy judging), so The Editor doesn't get to play, doesn't get to have fun, doesn't get to mess around and create. He has to wait. He only gets to come in when it's time to alter, arrange, re-record, edit, mix and master.

The part of me that creates just wants to play. It wants to fly. It wants to paint things, reveal things, shout about things and make you feel it. It's like a force, an energy being channeled, and when I'm in this mode it's all the same quality to me, at this point anyway—it's all just stone being chiseled, paint being squeezed, stuff pouring out.

For me, quantity has to do with how often I get to create—I don't write any faster or slower than I ever do, I just write at the speed of writing. Some ideas strike like lightning, some slowly percolate to the surface, some are methodically constructed. If this were my sole profession, I'd be at it 80 hours a week minimum, kicking out boatloads. As it is, I have maybe ten hours a week to make music, so I don't need to load any boats. Whatever the pace, I only play what interests me, and I try to make whatever I'm making as well as I can.

So with me the speed of output doesn't change the quality of the output—I don't have an Awesome Mode and a Suck Mode. I just have this insufferable armchair quarterback of an Editor, judging it all after the fact.

#1156366 - 09/09/19 08:47 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,031
Sunset Poet Online content
Top 200 Poster
Sunset Poet  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,031
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Quality or Quantity?

As it is, I have maybe ten hours a week to make music, so I don't need to load any boats..


Exactly, so you focus on the best stuff that comes to mind and spend what time you have developing that.
Even if you have more time...that's the way to do it.

#1156374 - 09/10/19 01:18 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: maccharles]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,044
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,044
Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by maccharles
Quantity is an exercise on the path to quality, one learns ones strengths and abilities via quantity.

One will most assuredly reach some form of subjective quality only through the exercise of quantity.

Three cents.


Yes. The worst thing any writer can do is hype over a handful of songs for DECADES without writing anything new or better. I think you need to do both to get where you are going. I do not believe that getting stuck in seeking perfect at the sacrifice of good enough is a trap that too many entry level writers get in. You have to write a lot of bad songs before the good ones come along. One exception? Susan Gibson wrote Wide Open Spaces in it's finished form as her first song. But, and this is key, she writes SO much better now. When you're first song is one of the highest earning songs in Country music history, that's a pretty good base to build on. But her newer stuff is far superior to it.

And Stan was... in 2 words: The Man!


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1156376 - 09/10/19 06:29 PM Re: Quantity Or Quality [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,031
Sunset Poet Online content
Top 200 Poster
Sunset Poet  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,031
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Originally Posted by maccharles
Quantity is an exercise on the path to quality, one learns ones strengths and abilities via quantity.

One will most assuredly reach some form of subjective quality only through the exercise of quantity.

Three cents.


Yes. The worst thing any writer can do is hype over a handful of songs for DECADES without writing anything new or better. I think you need to do both to get where you are going. I do not believe that getting stuck in seeking perfect at the sacrifice of good enough is a trap that too many entry level writers get in. You have to write a lot of bad songs before the good ones come along. One exception? Susan Gibson wrote Wide Open Spaces in it's finished form as her first song. But, and this is key, she writes SO much better now. When you're first song is one of the highest earning songs in Country music history, that's a pretty good base to build on. But her newer stuff is far superior to it.

And Stan was... in 2 words: The Man!



If you're in the business of songwriting and write a song every day and write with others, I agree.
If you are an ammy who wishes they were, I suggest using what time is available and cherry picking your best stuff to spend it on.
If merely having fun is the goal, then one should do whatever they feel like doing with their songwriting at any given moment.

Including opining about quantity versus quality if that provides a good time.

Context


Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
CWMusic, CBAY, mrpeepshow, Craig Allen, Styillz
21285 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics120,601
Posts1,134,877
Members21,285
Average Posts Daily36
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"The standard by which I now measure the things in my life is the following: If I was on my death bed, or if I knew I had a short time to live, would this issue be important? If the answer is no.. I don't sweat it at all. If the answer is Yes, you better believe it goes to the front of the order of today's business!" -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0