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A computer sings my latest song!
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#1155990 - 08/21/19 10:00 AM Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown.  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,394
Gary E. Andrews Online content
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Gary E. Andrews  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
I got this email and laughed out loud at the 'dreamchasing' advice. The good advice was just beginning so I carried it back here.
Aug 21 at 9:10 AM

What Are The Odds?
How To Change Your Odds In Any Creative Business
image
From time to time, someone asks me “What are the odds of getting a cut?” In my mind, what they are really asking is “Is this even worth trying?” I’m going to suggest here that this is the wrong approach to dream chasing of any form...
CLICK HERE TO READ ON
support@songtown.com

songtown.com

Here's the "READ ON"
What Are The Odds? How To Change Your Odds In Any Creative Business
Posted on August 20, 2019 by Marty Dodson


From time to time, someone asks me “What are the odds of getting a cut?” In my mind, what they are really asking is “Is this even worth trying?” I’m going to suggest here that this is the wrong approach to dream chasing of any form.

Let me put it to you this way. What are the odds that a Nashville guy with middle school and high school band experience as his only formal music training finds himself in New York City writing songs for 2 plays, conducting a band and helping the NYC music director from “Jersey Boys” chart out music? Almost ZERO. Yet, here I am.

What are the odds that a guy who grew up with no connections in the music business at all, figures it out, gets more than 110 songs recorded, and writes 6 #1 songs? Not great odds. Yet, here I am.

What are the odds that two songwriters with no formal business training create a business that has grown from day 1 and has served more than 4,000 songwriters all over the world? That’s laughable. Yet, here Clay and I stand.

The longer I live, the more I realize that it’s really not about the odds unless you are playing the lottery. In that case, there really are odds that are stacked against you. Those odds are measurable and accurate. They are based on math. They are real!

In any creative endeavor, however, the odds are not so fixed. You can figure out ways to cut them WAY down. How do you do that?

Focus On What You Want
Keep your eyes on the prize. Keep your goal in sight and the mountains in between you and the goal will diminish. If I want a Grammy badly enough, I can figure out what I have to do to get to that goal. I can study people who have them. I can figure out which categories are most and least competitive. I can steer my writing toward those categories with less entries. I can cut my odds significantly.

You Can Refuse To Quit
The people who achieve their dreams are the people who don’t quit – 100% of the time. Think about that. No person ever achieved their dream by quitting. The winners are ALWAYS the people who kept going even when it was tough. You increase your odds immeasurably just by keeping on going. As time goes by, you’ll see many others falling by the wayside. Don’t join them and your odds of success go up.

Work Hard
I run into lots of songwriters who don’t want to work very hard. Even some with songwriting deals. These writers never succeed long-term. Why? People who are willing to work harder pass them by. I can’t tell you the number of writers who are MUCH more talented than I am, I have passed by on the road to success. They wave from underneath their shade tree as I hustle down the road, but I gain so much ground that they can’t catch up when they hop back on the road. You can outwork most of the “competition” if you are willing to put in the hours.

Work Smart
Writers who work hard AND smart are a force to be dealt with. That’s a powerful combination. Learning HOW to work in smart ways and then outworking everyone you know can turn “odds against you” to “odds in your favor”. Don’t simply work hard – learn about the RIGHT things to do and work hard at those things.

All of that to say – don’t worry about the odds. Change the odds!

Best of luck!

Marty Dodson

Co-Founder SongTown


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1155994 - 08/21/19 11:19 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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My feeling is the only way to increase your odds, is to totally dive into the business. Fearless and unphased by the fact that you may not be able to eat today or tommorow. I know your referring to cuts, but its pretty much the same thing.

Here's my rough list of increasing your odds:

1. Be great, work hard at your craft and learn how to write, play, sing, perform, even though some people say you cant improve...you're born doing all this....ahem

2. Start young, like 18 or even sooner, where you have all the time in the world to "f" around traveling from place to place, to do showcases and gigs that wont pay a dime. Most artists and writers like myself included just wrote from home and somehow expected something to happen by mailing in demos. Do all this while living with Mom and Dad until they finally kick you out.

3. Dont find something to fall back on, cause you will fall back. Treat getting money for your music as an absolute must, you will die without it. Amazing what can happen when people do this.

3. Meet people, network, knock on doors. Read, listen, learn.

4. Ask yourself if you are really willing to do all the above. Most of us are not

#1155997 - 08/21/19 01:29 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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Gary E. Andrews Online content
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Gary E. Andrews  Online Content
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1. True Dat! LOL

2. I'm not willing to do that work, moving to the big music centers of NYC, L.A., Nashtown.

3. My day job paid the bills while I was married with children, and after they were all gone. Without a motive I simply made it a hobby, an avocation, not a vocation. I didn't aspire to learn to be a company marketing product. I was just a poet employing a guitar to create and express my poetry.

4. Now the commercial skills I learned and practiced, which consist of being content with paid bills, keep me right where I've always been. A hobbyist. A creative at home. I venture out occasionally, but not with any ideas of making it a regular practice in pursuit of anything. Except that blonde girl with the chin I want to kiss. And I haven't seen her in a while. Why do I want to kiss her chin? LOL


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1155999 - 08/21/19 02:51 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Gary,

Your story is what our entire "system" once wanted. They wanted you to work, have a family and kids, get a mortgage so you're risk averse and be content with working and not rocking the boat. That was the old model, it no longer exists.

Now the model is to get kids to go to college via giant student loans, indoctrinate them into completely unthinking, unquestioning victims through certain political viewpoints. Then, once out of school, they have these kids in so much debt they can't leave their parents homes, can't date because you know, toxic masculinity, and the overwhelming propaganda of alternative lifestyles of every ilk that promotes nothing positive and lasting. In its place is unlimited porn for men who stop caring about looking for a wife. Women are taught to hate or be scared of men. So no marriage anymore, no kids and certainly no ability to work more than menial jobs because 90% of degrees teach nothing of use in the real marketplace. The college debt is an anchor around their neck from "growing up" and becoming independent. It is a progressive downturn into oblivion and a slave state of low class low wage workers and the elites. See certain states to see our future everywhere in a decade.

All this right/left propaganda is fake. It is a game elites play on the masses to get them angry at each other so we pay no attention to what they are actually doing. A study has just proven what many already knew, that Fluoride in water decreases the IQ of young children, so with each passing year we get collectively dumber and more docile, much like the farm animals that the elites see us collectively as, right or left, it's all a facade. It's pigs and cows to them. I have seen these people behind the facades and behind the scenes. (and all their actions are theater which mean nothing). Did you know during the last administration they passed a law making false propaganda intended to manipulate people actions 100% legal in the USA? Yep. The admin before that passed the Patriot Act. It's the opposite of what it says it is, as nearly all laws are. The justice system is a farce. It is to protect the haves from the have nots, not the other way around.

In that is the lie that the music industry has always been. An unlimited amount of talent means they will always keep control of things no matter how smart and talented someone is because they will find talent willing to do what they want on terrible terms and at terrible cost to them easily. It's always a race to the bottom among talent, all for a chance to be worshipped by the masses. Whoever they choose they can make famous and though they fail over 90% of the time, once they get a shill to stick, they will be an evergreen making music that creates publishing which has always been where the money really is. Publishing is power. Content that can be monetized, remonetized over and over and long after the creators are dead and gone to the corporate powers, only a handful of entities, who "own" it all, like everything else. Is anyone awake aware that Disney bought Fox? So the left/right are in it together. Always. And forever. It is the elites and all the rest of us.

Life is about elites siphoning %s off the little people at every turn through loans, mortgages, credit cards, taxes. The famous quote by a banker I've forgotten (they're all the same) was "Give me control over a government's money and I care not who they hire to make the laws" and that is a truth people need to wake up to. But to date we collectively have bided our time in a fantasy of our own making. Does anyone realize even after you pay off your property you never own it? NEVER. There are no locales void of property taxes. You always pay money for rent, even after you think you own. States are happy to forgo state taxes, but never forgo property taxes. They collect rent on every single inch of the entire country available to be sold or lived on. And it goes farther. Ever wonder why the Fed Govt controls 80%+ of many Western states? It isn't conservation. It controls where people are funneled. More and more into large urban nightmares where they can tightly control everyone with absurd levels of paramilitary police power and surveillance. These video doorbells? Amazon shares all the footage which they collect from each unit and "store" with police and the highest bidder. That shows not only who comes and goes to your house, but also your neighbors and your street. They are flooding markets with this stuff for a reason.

It is true if you work hard enough, have reasonable talent, and never stop no matter what you'll rise up the ladder in various ways. Few have that staying power. You must take slings and arrows and most of our kids have now been conditioned to be risk averse and to avoid even tiny criticisms at all costs. Watch the news, it is all programming.. fairy tales told to scare and control. And now robot/AI power is replacing most white collar and many blue collar jobs (those that are even left). So all we have are service jobs and most of those are being farmed out overseas. Try any customer service number for most corporations.

So the music industry? People should stop worrying about it. If you're amazing, the leeches will find you. They always do. Instead, focus on making music alone or with your friends and playing for your family and friends and neighbors and community and loving the experience. Focus on listening to music and loving that experience. That is all that should really matter in the first place. Fame is fake. Money can be made doing many things. No need to corrupt the joy of making music with the pursuit of commercial servitude and individual artistic suicide. There's nothing wrong with building your own fanbase and serving them directly. That is artistic freedom and IS under your control entirely. Don't wait for "others" to do it for you.. they don't exist.

But that's just my opinion. I could be right.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1156004 - 08/21/19 03:42 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
Joined: Sep 2017
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JaneK Offline
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Well, I think I am living my dream even though I am a "nobody". Last year at this time I was still a songwriter in my little home studio with no interactions with other songwriters. Now I have collaborated with others via the web, discuss things with other musicians and have shared my songs with others. That is "success" for me - to come out of my shell and take risks.

I am enjoying this so much and maybe I want more, maybe I will try, most likely the odds are great I might fail. But, if you do not have some hope (of course, as long as you understand the odds) the work involved will get to you and that's it. You will quit!

I battle self confidence issues everyday, but the more I stick my neck out the more I am pleasantly surprised. And I feel more confident about what I am doing with each song I write. Without the help of songwriters forums like this one I would still be just writing songs in my little room for no one to hear but myself. I am so glad I stuck my head out the door!

#1156005 - 08/21/19 11:47 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: JaneK]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by JaneK
Well, I think I am living my dream even though I am a "nobody". Last year at this time I was still a songwriter in my little home studio with no interactions with other songwriters. Now I have collaborated with others via the web, discuss things with other musicians and have shared my songs with others. That is "success" for me - to come out of my shell and take risks.

I am enjoying this so much and maybe I want more, maybe I will try, most likely the odds are great I might fail. But, if you do not have some hope (of course, as long as you understand the odds) the work involved will get to you and that's it. You will quit!

I battle self confidence issues everyday, but the more I stick my neck out the more I am pleasantly surprised. And I feel more confident about what I am doing with each song I write. Without the help of songwriters forums like this one I would still be just writing songs in my little room for no one to hear but myself. I am so glad I stuck my head out the door!



You have the right attitude. Like I said, those willing to work and bullrush through criticism and roadblocks and with reasonable talent can find successes on their own outside the "industry." But if you want to be the "star" farm animal in the pasteur of fame and media, prepare for the slaughter you're going to endure to get there. If you're truly amazing, you need not worry about professionalism or manners or much of anything, thew sharks will circle you the moment you are able to make the money, and nothing you can do will change that. I suggest ignoring them because if you ARE that talented, build your fanbase and be your own boss. It isn't hard if you start young and build methodically. If you're already post 35, then it's a bit of quandry because though you might be talented enough right now, you have no longevity. It would be like buying an old racehorse or signing a post 35 year old football player to a long term deal... they are only going to get a tiny window of productivity before it falls off. But I know plenty of full time pros outside the system or even on the fringe of it picking and choosing single opportunities here and there to flesh out the rest of their work making a living on their own terms. (Like opening for major acts, signing a song to a movie, that sort of stuff). 5000 fans times $20 bucks a year is a full time living being your own boss. If you can't build that in 5 years, you may not have what you think you have to offer. Most won't put their nose to the grindstone for 6 months, let alone 5 years, but if you do and have reasonable talent, you'll have success on your own terms.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1156012 - 08/22/19 10:37 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
Joined: Aug 2002
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Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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There is so much corruption in this world in all aspects of life, that an honest person don't stand a chance. If you are willing to become corrupted yourself, then you might get a few breaks. I will not go down that road because it is a road that will lead to destruction. Your conscience is easily seared, what pricks your conscience the first time you do something you know is wrong, will not even bother you when you've done it the tenth time. If I can't make it by being honest, I would not want to make it by being dishonest. What good is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul. Your body only last a few years but your soul goes on forever.

#1156014 - 08/22/19 10:52 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
There is so much corruption in this world in all aspects of life, that an honest person don't stand a chance. If you are willing to become corrupted yourself, then you might get a few breaks. I will not go down that road because it is a road that will lead to destruction. Your conscience is easily seared, what pricks your conscience the first time you do something you know is wrong, will not even bother you when you've done it the tenth time. If I can't make it by being honest, I would not want to make it by being dishonest. What good is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul. Your body only last a few years but your soul goes on forever.


Everette arent those the things people who do NOT make it say?

For me, I cant think of any better life than being a music superstar, knowing everything I write is gonna be listened to and bought, playing to thousands and thousands of fans who LOVE your music, not having to worry one bit about money ever again. Im 100% certain I could stay true to myself and would help the people I love and the people who helped me along the way.

We have no chance of becoming big music stars, but that doesnt mean we wouldn't take it if the chance arose?

These are consolation arguments. "Make music for enjoyment and for the love of it" As opposed to? There isnt one. Wed all be doing this for a living and would be big stars if we could.

Ive loved music and writing since day one, that wont change. But SOMEBODY has to be a big star. Imagine what my musical world would be like if The WHO hadnt become huge, or even big enough for me to hear. Or Springsteen didnt become a massive star. Id be missing out on some of the greatest gifts I could get.

Imagine no Beatles, like the movie Yesterday.....

Some of my favorite music has inspired me and consoled me and was a great friend to me, all because the artist became huge and the word got out.

I dont think we should discount being a big star we might be able to do the same thing our favorites did for us, probably not, but hey a dollar and a dream....




Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/22/19 11:08 AM.
#1156015 - 08/22/19 11:01 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
Joined: May 2001
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Eh, yes,
There are a certain percentage of people that are corrupt and think they can beat the "system". However most are just fooling themselves and it all comes "Home to Roost" sooner or later. As Everett stated, if I can't earn something honestly I don't want it. I think that is where that statement, HELL IS FOR HEROES comes in.

Here's a song that doesn't exactly explain it but may help. PISTOL PACKING MAMA by Al Dexter. From the 40's if it is posted. Write a Hit!


Ray E. Strode
#1156016 - 08/22/19 11:05 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Eh, yes,
There are a certain percentage of people that are corrupt and think they can beat the "system". However most are just fooling themselves and it all comes "Home to Roost" sooner or later. As Everett stated, if I can't earn something honestly I don't want it. I think that is where that statement, HELL IS FOR HEROES comes in.

Here's a song that doesn't exactly explain it but may help. PISTOL PACKING MAMA by Al Dexter. From the 40's if it is posted. Write a Hit!


Were fooling ourselves because the chances are almost nil, not because it wouldnt be great to be a music superstar

We condition ourselves to say otherwise because we know we dont have a chance anyway.

You wouldnt have heard Pistol Packing Mama by AL Dexter if it wasnt famous enough for you to hear it.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/22/19 11:18 AM.
#1156017 - 08/22/19 11:23 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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Humm,
If Pistol Packing Mama wasn't famous enough you would have never heard it. Now what is that supposed to mean? Well FD if the dog hadn't stopped to, well never mind!


Ray E. Strode
#1156018 - 08/22/19 11:26 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Humm,
If Pistol Packing Mama wasn't famous enough you would have never heard it. Now what is that supposed to mean? Well FD if the dog hadn't stopped to, well never mind!


It means that you are referencing a popular song, you heard this song because the person singing it was famous, or became famous. If he had taken the advice of "There are a certain percentage of people that are corrupt and think they can beat the "system". However most are just fooling themselves and it all comes "Home to Roost" sooner or later. As Everett stated, if I can't earn something honestly I don't want it."

He woudlnt have pursued a career in music, and you wouldnt have heard Pistol Packin Mama, and couldnt even use it as a reference.

#1156019 - 08/22/19 12:37 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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Eh, Well FD,
I understood all of your post except the Greek part. It was all Greek to me. Could you translate it into English?


Ray E. Strode
#1156026 - 08/22/19 03:47 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Eh, Well FD,
I understood all of your post except the Greek part. It was all Greek to me. Could you translate it into English?


What im saying is every song you have ever mentioned on this forum would be unknown to you, if not for the stars who made them hits.

No Beatles, no Let it Be, no Hey Jude, no Yesterday, none of these songs would be heard, they may still have been written but theyd be on soundclick somewhere as opposed to being in their rightful historic place.

I think building a fan base in a small way is a great idea, way more practical than trying to be a big star. I just didnt understand the negativity in regards to being a music star. Everybody has dreamed about being a big star at some point, whether they admit it or not.

#1156028 - 08/22/19 05:05 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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Whazzat?
If all those songs mentioned on "This Forum" weren't released and played they would be unknown to you? No kidding Dick Tracy, what gave you your first clue?


Ray E. Strode
#1156033 - 08/23/19 12:15 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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As the 'Leader' of your endeavors, perhaps this advice posted on Linkedin can be meaningful:

Peter Drucker’s Advice to Aspiring Leaders
Published on August 23, 2019

Theodore Kinni
Business writer and editor
Five time-proven practices from the pioneering management thinker

There aren’t a lot of business books from more than a half-century ago that have stood the test of time, but Peter Drucker’s The Effective Executive, issued in a spiffy 50th Anniversary edition in 2017, is one of the select few. Back in 1967, when many of today’s business readers weren’t yet a gleam in their parents’ eyes, Drucker, whom Tom Peters said invented modern management, declared, “The executive is, first of all, expected to get the right things done. And this is simply saying that he is expected to be effective.”

Drucker is as relevant today as he was in the last century because he approached the study of management like an exercise in anatomy. His clarity of thought and language was a scalpel, which he used to lay bare every aspect of his chosen subject and reveal its essence. In The Effective Executive, Drucker applied that scalpel to leadership.

Drucker was of two minds as to whether leaders are made or born. In The Practice of Management, another classic business book, which was published more than a decade earlier in 1954, he treated it as a matter of natural aptitude and ingrained attitude: “Leadership is of the utmost importance. Indeed there is no substitute for it. But leadership cannot be created or promoted. It cannot be taught or learned.”

By the time, Drucker wrote The Effective Executive, however, he seems to have changed his mind. In it, he described five practices that can make you a more effective leader:

1. Manage your time
“Time is the scarcest resource,” wrote Drucker, “and unless it is managed, nothing else can be managed.” Successful execs know how they spend their days, and they dismiss or delegate any activity that doesn’t require their direct attention.

To identify the unnecessary time-sucks in your day, Drucker suggested jotting down everything you do in real time. Even better, these days you could get a time management app. Then, examine your activity entries and, for each one, ask yourself, “What would happen if this were not done at all?” If the answer is nothing (and it often will be, according to Drucker), stop doing it. If the task needs to be done, ask yourself if it could be done by somebody else. If so, delegate it. Repeat every few months to make sure you’re still spending your time wisely.

2. Focus on contribution
Effective executives hold themselves “accountable for the performance of the whole,” wrote Drucker. By that he meant that they aren’t solely focused on their own performance or careers. Instead, the most effective leaders are team players who work hard to realize the strategic goals of their organizations.

To direct your focus to what you can do to maximize your contribution to your company, Drucker had some pithy advice. He said to start by “asking other people in the organization, superiors, subordinates, but above all, colleagues in other areas: ‘What contribution from me do you require to make your contribution to the organization?’”

3. Build on strengths
Drucker preached a strengths-first approach to management decades before it became a corporate buzzword. Effective executives drive team productivity and results, he wrote, by building on “available strengths — the strengths of associates, the strengths of the superior, and one’s own strength.”

Train yourself to focus on strengths instead of weaknesses by concentrating on what employees can do rather than what they can’t do, advises Drucker. Seek out only the best-qualified people, instead of those who play well with others or who appear to have no flaws (they invariably do). And don’t forget to apply this practice to yourself — identify your own strengths and use them to improve your performance.

4. Prioritize and concentrate
Long before we were all tethered to our smartphones, Drucker was warning leaders about the dangers of multitasking. He said that effective executives focus all their faculties on one achievement at a time. Why? “The more one can concentrate time, effort, and resources,” Drucker wrote, “the greater the number and diversity of tasks one can actually perform.”

To make the most of your concentrated effort, first prioritize your tasks. Prioritization is key, said Drucker, because if you’re only working on one thing, you must make sure it’s the right thing. “Effective executives do first things first,” he wrote, “and they do one thing at a time.”

5. Make decisions systematically
Finally, Drucker said that effective leaders make sound decisions — that means no on-the-fly calls or going with your gut. Sound decisions, he said, come from using a repeatable, consistent process with clearly defined elements executed in a distinct sequence.

How should you approach decision making? Drucker offered these tips:

Determine what kind of decision is required. If the issue is ongoing, you’ll need to develop a policy; if it’s a one-off situation, make the call and move on.
Define the decision’s “boundary conditions” — that is, its objectives, minimum goals, and the conditions it must meet — before you make it.
Shoot for the ideal outcome to start. Save the inevitable compromises for later, when it’s time to implement the decision.
Define the actions necessary to implement the decision in the decision.
Don’t chisel your decisions in stone. Allow for post-implementation feedback and adapt the decision when needed.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1156035 - 08/23/19 04:28 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Whazzat?
If all those songs mentioned on "This Forum" weren't released and played they would be unknown to you? No kidding Dick Tracy, what gave you your first clue?


I forgot im conversing with a STRODES scholar.

#1156036 - 08/23/19 09:11 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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Aw, Humm,
Well FD there is a Strode College in the south of England. No kidding. You can Google it if you don't believe me started by my ancestors Small world Eh?


Ray E. Strode
#1156053 - 08/25/19 11:20 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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In that is the lie that the music industry has always been. An unlimited amount of talent means they will always keep control of things no matter how smart and talented someone is because they will find talent willing to do what they want on terrible terms and at terrible cost to them easily. It's always a race to the bottom among talent, all for a chance to be worshipped by the masses. Whoever they choose they can make famous and though they fail over 90% of the time, once they get a shill to stick, they will be an evergreen making music that creates publishing which has always been where the money really is. Publishing is power. Content that can be monetized, remonetized over and over and long after the creators are dead and gone to the corporate powers, only a handful of entities, who "own" it all, like everything else. Is anyone awake aware that Disney bought Fox? So the left/right are in it together. Always. And forever. It is the elites and all the rest of us.

So the music industry? People should stop worrying about it. If you're amazing, the leeches will find you. They always do. Instead, focus on making music alone or with your friends and playing for your family and friends and neighbors and community and loving the experience. Focus on listening to music and loving that experience. That is all that should really matter in the first place. Fame is fake. Money can be made doing many things. No need to corrupt the joy of making music with the pursuit of commercial servitude and individual artistic suicide. There's nothing wrong with building your own fanbase and serving them directly. That is artistic freedom and IS under your control entirely. Don't wait for "others" to do it for you.. they don't exist.

But that's just my opinion. I could be right. [/quote]

Well said!

Last edited by JAPOV; 08/25/19 11:32 AM.

JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1156058 - 08/25/19 01:38 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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I cant imagine a better life than saying.... "well i'll probably release a new album in 2020, and ill support that with a world tour, I'll schedule 5 dates each at the Garden, Meadowlands, Philly, Boston, Atlanta, Florida,
Then ill probably go out west and play Los Angeles, Phoenix, Salt Lake, Vegas, then ill take a few weeks off before I head to Europe, and play Italy, Spain, England, Ireland, germany, France, then ill come back home and finish off a ten night stand back in Jersey.

All this while never once thinking "I cant do that" will anybody buy my album? never once thinking I wont sell out, never once thinking nobody likes my music.

The fact that people like The Stones, and McCartney, and The Who, and Billy Joel and Springsteen and all these guys keep touring is because there is no greater thrill than being able to do it. I wouldn't stop either.

Im not gonna sit here and say "ahh, thats nothing to desire, i wouldn't want that, ID LOVE THAT!

But there is also much to be had in being an indie and making a living playing music, while most people cant. Ive gotten to know some indies that ive met at their shows, and they do ok for themselves.

You do need to be really great though in order to maintain a living in such a small way.

Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber and Jonas Brothers and all these folks are not at the top because they are great musicians, songwriters and/or performers. They are there because somebody saw something marketable in them and they were able to pull a crowd. it's all about selling power.

If some of the indies ive met along the way didnt have great music they wouldn't make a dime, let alone 50k or 100 k a year. and I wouldnt have tried to seek them out if they werent great...great being subjective of course



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/25/19 01:40 PM.
#1156077 - 08/26/19 03:58 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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The bigger question is: What are the odds of me joining Songtown.com @ $649 for the year?

Whether this is a good Company or not, I cannot say, but I will say this: They are marketing to people to believe in their dreams so they can make a living off the dream chasers. @ $649 a pop

What a tangled web we weave......

I think I'll write me a knock-out tune, take that $649 & hire the best session players I can afford, and get my ass in the studio & cut a killer song....



Steve Altonian---"I'll just do my best & let God do the rest"

http://www.stevealtonian.com
#1156080 - 08/26/19 05:52 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Steve Altonian]  
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Originally Posted by Steve Altonian
The bigger question is: What are the odds of me joining Songtown.com @ $649 for the year?

Whether this is a good Company or not, I cannot say, but I will say this: They are marketing to people to believe in their dreams so they can make a living off the dream chasers. @ $649 a pop

What a tangled web we weave......

I think I'll write me a knock-out tune, take that $649 & hire the best session players I can afford, and get my ass in the studio & cut a killer song....



its funny, I wasnt even thinking of songtown, i was just trying to extrapolate how to increase the odds of making it (making it is also subjective too) . I guess in a way songtown was implying that joining their service will increase your odds. Just like recording studios always mention in their ads "10 things you need to get a deal" 1 is always a great production....which they happen to provide


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/26/19 06:33 PM.
#1156090 - 08/27/19 11:32 AM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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There are lots of descriptions of the challenges any transitioning from hobby-songwriter to company marketing product. I guess it comes down to what each Songwriter is going to do, what tactics they will employ in a strategy to succeed over those challenges.
Small success may be possible, by working a region from a comfortable home-base. Traveling the world may not be practical for you.
What IS practical?
Competing with well-financed world-wide distribution and media promotion may not be practical.
What is practical for you?
Increasing your odds with a little studious learning, and some well-thought-out, well-timed commercial tactics may be practical.
Studying commerce, the techniques of sales, the techniques of marketing, things you may never have studied before, may be practical. Comprehension that you're not 'Going-out-of-business' but 'Going-out-INTO-business' and learning about how that's been done before can make your endeavors more profitable.
Whether you have product you can bring to market to become your profession remains to be seen. Stumbling blindly into it, uneducated, seems like a guarantee of failure, as someone said, "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail."
If you really have something, your naivete' about how Intellectual Property works as a commercial endeavor could be a red flag for someone that you're the cash cow they've been looking for and easy prey for their lawyer with a contract.
I always think of that National Public Radio story about the guy whose marketing plan was limited to a region he could comfortably work, did work, and claimed to be earning a six-figure income. I like six figures, even if one of them is the blonde in the front row.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1156094 - 08/27/19 01:45 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Steve Altonian]  
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by Steve Altonian
The bigger question is: What are the odds of me joining Songtown.com @ $649 for the year?

Whether this is a good Company or not, I cannot say, but I will say this: They are marketing to people to believe in their dreams so they can make a living off the dream chasers. @ $649 a pop

What a tangled web we weave......

I think I'll write me a knock-out tune, take that $649 & hire the best session players I can afford, and get my ass in the studio & cut a killer song....



Well, glad you said it. I stopped looking at these sites for members a long time ago. There are NO organizations worth that much money in existence. People need to realize you can't buy success. The idea is simply an indicator that you don't understand reality and you hope to "play" music business rather than to make great music worthy of other people's time and then when a market exists, you looking at tools to help monetize your skillset. Paying someone will never bring you money. Paying someone should only happen when you will LOSE (CLEARLY LOSE) money by not hiring someone to take that off your plate. That includes all the industry entities like Management, Producers, Labels, Publishers, Attorneys and so on. These folks should be seen as "hammers" only to employ if you have a specific nail that needs to be driven in. Need to learn the basics of how things work? That only requires curiosity and a web browser. There's very little that hasn't already been discussed right here, but you should always combine sources with skepticism, curiosity and a trust but verify approach. Find sources you trust, but always verify that info by a third party of your choosing (not theirs). Before you spend a dime on something, ask yourself how exactly you will utilize this "tool" and if there is any other option where you can do it without spending money. But.. before ANY of that happens, you need to write and record music that people outside your circle desire enough to pay you money to hear or pay you money to perform. If there isn't already a demand for your work, keep working. Once you have something worth commercializing, the leeches.. er... industry will usually find you on their own.

Remember, people pay YOU.. not the other way around. You can't buy success. Even those with unlimited money and power to do so fail most of the time and if they buy success through lies and deception, they can't maintain it which is why there are so many one hit wonders. (And unless your write and record something that is a worldwide "thing" the money is a fraction what you hope it will be).

If you don't understand clearly that deals like the company above is wasted money, what you've learned is that you are not ready. Not even close.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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Just Plain Folks
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Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

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#1156095 - 08/27/19 02:20 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
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90 dB Offline
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Yes, but what about..............The Starmaker Machine?



Are You the Next Big Thing in the Music Business?
Are your songs better than anything you hear on the radio?
Do your friends and family tell you that you are great?
Are you stuck in BFE, far away from New York, L.A. or Nashville?
Do you have a closet full of your music CD's that you can't even give away?
Do you have a message that the world needs to hear?
Are you a star on the internet forums?
Do you have some money?


Then, I would like to introduce you to The Starmaker Machine! We have the knowledge, experience and connections in the music industry to take your musical career to the next level!


Do you want to play packed stadiums to thousands of screaming fans?
We can make that happen!

Do you want gold records hanging on your home studio walls?
We can make that happen!

Do you want to demand only yellow M & M's on your performance rider?
We can make that happen!

Do you want your face on the cover of Rolling Stone?
We can make that happen!

Do you want to hide your vast wealth in offshore accounts while maintaining your "common man" persona?
We can make that happen!

Do you want a herd of groupies waiting for you at the stage door after your shows?

We can make that happen!


You've already tried it your way, and where are you? Still living in Mom's basement, and working at the Crazy Chicken fast food joint? Still shlepping your guitar to the open mics and posting your music on internet forums?

Stop kidding yourself!

To succeed in the music business, you need to be connected. You need the guidance of professionals who are dedicated to your career. People who can get your music to the right people. You need The Starmaker Machine!


Fact: 14,672 new CD's are released to the public every single second!
Fact: .000000012 % of these CD's will make a profit.
Fact: Most music today is pirated or downloaded for free.
Fact: Most musicians live lives of quiet desperation, ending tragically in drug addiction and suicide.

How can you overcome the daunting challenges of the music business? How can you get your music into the hands of millions of new fans? How can you get the money, prestige and women you truly desire?

By signing up for membership in The Starmaker Machine - that's how! 

Success is right around the corner. You can feel it. You are the greatest thing to ever hit the music business. You know it. We know it too! With The Starmaker Machine behind you, all your dreams will come true!

What can you expect to get with your membership? 

A professional demo of your song, recorded by top level studio pros!
Your own website on the Starmaker Page!
Two guest passes to The Bluebird Cafeteria in Nashville, Tn!
Two round-trip bus tickets to the Annual Starmaker Convention in Swamp Hollow, Arkansas!
Personal mentoring with Buddy Jay, award-winning songwriter of “Love's Done Got Me” and “The Blue Tick Hound Song”!!
Radio airplay on WSVJ in Wheeling, W.V.
Free membership in Broadcast Music Inc.!
Exclusive song critiques by our staff of award-winning songwriters/A & R / Producers!




Starmaker Staff:

Colonel Bob Parker, President.

Bob has scored a number of charting songs in his long illustrious career, most notably: “She Wouldn't Shut Up, So I Shot Her”, and “There's A Fly In My Beer And A Tear In My Eye” - and who could forget the timeless “Barrooms And Spitoons”?
Bob has also had a huge career on tour, opening for acts like Johnny Dolan's Rough Riders, Nancy Higgenbotham, Charlie Duncan and The Brittles! Bob also hosted a popular Radio Show on WDFR in Bugtussel, Ok.
Bob brings all his years of Music Business Business Experience to everything we do here at TSM, and through his guidance, we are growing every day!


Chet Haskins, C.E.O.
Chet is well known as a pioneer in The Music Business Business, having run a myriad of wildly successful websites catering to amateur songwriters and musicians, such as - “Wannabee.com”, “Poseur.com” and his biggest triumph - “YourSong.com”.
Chet knows all the right people, and can get your song to them!


Emongo Mobubu, Nigerian Chapter President.
Emongo is our rep in Africa. We get a TON of airplay for our clients in Africa! The royalties can be difficult to negotiate, but hey – it's airplay!


Chi Chi Monteno, Latin Music Director
Chi Chi began his music career as the Artistic Director at the BoomBoom Room in Detroit, then moved to L.A. to coordinate the 1st Annual Chicano Punk Festival in Culver City, which was headlined by none other than Juan Yuto! (“Maracas and Cucaraches”).

Why wait? Every passing day you slip further into oblivion! You want the fame – the fortune – YOU KNOW YOU DO!


Sign up TODAY!

1 Year Membership : $1500. USD
3 Year Membership : $6000. USD

Payable to:

Colonel Bob Parker
PO Box 2 
Happy Trails Motor Court
Muckoluski, OK. 



Membership Form:

Name____________________________________________
Address______________________________________
Email _______________________________________
Credit Card # ___________________________
SSN __________________________________
Bank Account Number(s) ______________________________________

#1156099 - 08/27/19 05:50 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: 90 dB]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,825
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,825
Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by 90 dB
Yes, but what about..............The Starmaker Machine?



Are You the Next Big Thing in the Music Business?
Are your songs better than anything you hear on the radio?
Do your friends and family tell you that you are great?
Are you stuck in BFE, far away from New York, L.A. or Nashville?
Do you have a closet full of your music CD's that you can't even give away?
Do you have a message that the world needs to hear?
Are you a star on the internet forums?
Do you have some money?


Then, I would like to introduce you to The Starmaker Machine! We have the knowledge, experience and connections in the music industry to take your musical career to the next level!


Do you want to play packed stadiums to thousands of screaming fans?
We can make that happen!

Do you want gold records hanging on your home studio walls?
We can make that happen!

Do you want to demand only yellow M & M's on your performance rider?
We can make that happen!

Do you want your face on the cover of Rolling Stone?
We can make that happen!

Do you want to hide your vast wealth in offshore accounts while maintaining your "common man" persona?
We can make that happen!

Do you want a herd of groupies waiting for you at the stage door after your shows?

We can make that happen!


You've already tried it your way, and where are you? Still living in Mom's basement, and working at the Crazy Chicken fast food joint? Still shlepping your guitar to the open mics and posting your music on internet forums?

Stop kidding yourself!

To succeed in the music business, you need to be connected. You need the guidance of professionals who are dedicated to your career. People who can get your music to the right people. You need The Starmaker Machine!


Fact: 14,672 new CD's are released to the public every single second!
Fact: .000000012 % of these CD's will make a profit.
Fact: Most music today is pirated or downloaded for free.
Fact: Most musicians live lives of quiet desperation, ending tragically in drug addiction and suicide.

How can you overcome the daunting challenges of the music business? How can you get your music into the hands of millions of new fans? How can you get the money, prestige and women you truly desire?

By signing up for membership in The Starmaker Machine - that's how! 

Success is right around the corner. You can feel it. You are the greatest thing to ever hit the music business. You know it. We know it too! With The Starmaker Machine behind you, all your dreams will come true!

What can you expect to get with your membership? 

A professional demo of your song, recorded by top level studio pros!
Your own website on the Starmaker Page!
Two guest passes to The Bluebird Cafeteria in Nashville, Tn!
Two round-trip bus tickets to the Annual Starmaker Convention in Swamp Hollow, Arkansas!
Personal mentoring with Buddy Jay, award-winning songwriter of “Love's Done Got Me” and “The Blue Tick Hound Song”!!
Radio airplay on WSVJ in Wheeling, W.V.
Free membership in Broadcast Music Inc.!
Exclusive song critiques by our staff of award-winning songwriters/A & R / Producers!




Starmaker Staff:

Colonel Bob Parker, President.

Bob has scored a number of charting songs in his long illustrious career, most notably: “She Wouldn't Shut Up, So I Shot Her”, and “There's A Fly In My Beer And A Tear In My Eye” - and who could forget the timeless “Barrooms And Spitoons”?
Bob has also had a huge career on tour, opening for acts like Johnny Dolan's Rough Riders, Nancy Higgenbotham, Charlie Duncan and The Brittles! Bob also hosted a popular Radio Show on WDFR in Bugtussel, Ok.
Bob brings all his years of Music Business Business Experience to everything we do here at TSM, and through his guidance, we are growing every day!


Chet Haskins, C.E.O.
Chet is well known as a pioneer in The Music Business Business, having run a myriad of wildly successful websites catering to amateur songwriters and musicians, such as - “Wannabee.com”, “Poseur.com” and his biggest triumph - “YourSong.com”.
Chet knows all the right people, and can get your song to them!


Emongo Mobubu, Nigerian Chapter President.
Emongo is our rep in Africa. We get a TON of airplay for our clients in Africa! The royalties can be difficult to negotiate, but hey – it's airplay!


Chi Chi Monteno, Latin Music Director
Chi Chi began his music career as the Artistic Director at the BoomBoom Room in Detroit, then moved to L.A. to coordinate the 1st Annual Chicano Punk Festival in Culver City, which was headlined by none other than Juan Yuto! (“Maracas and Cucaraches”).

Why wait? Every passing day you slip further into oblivion! You want the fame – the fortune – YOU KNOW YOU DO!


Sign up TODAY!

1 Year Membership : $1500. USD
3 Year Membership : $6000. USD

Payable to:

Colonel Bob Parker
PO Box 2 
Happy Trails Motor Court
Muckoluski, OK. 



Membership Form:

Name____________________________________________
Address______________________________________
Email _______________________________________
Credit Card # ___________________________
SSN __________________________________
Bank Account Number(s) ______________________________________


Yeah, that isn't even as heinous as those used to get from the late "Colonels" (there were several) that preyed on songwriters for half a century. They used to threaten to sue us non stop for pointing out the absurdities of their pitches. I reminded them that I had truth and fact on my side and would counter sue for treble damages and since I had a REAL attorney ready to go, they gave up. We and the internet in general cost them their business model. We gave away the info they did provide and exposed the rest for what it was.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1156102 - 08/27/19 06:39 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: 90 dB]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 259
JAPOV Online happy
Top 500 Poster
JAPOV  Online Happy
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 259
North Alabama
Originally Posted by 90 dB
Yes, but what about..............The Starmaker Machine?



Are You the Next Big Thing in the Music Business?
Are your songs better than anything you hear on the radio?
Do your friends and family tell you that you are great?
Are you stuck in BFE, far away from New York, L.A. or Nashville?
Do you have a closet full of your music CD's that you can't even give away?
Do you have a message that the world needs to hear?
Are you a star on the internet forums?
Do you have some money?


Then, I would like to introduce you to The Starmaker Machine! We have the knowledge, experience and connections in the music industry to take your musical career to the next level!


Do you want to play packed stadiums to thousands of screaming fans?
We can make that happen!

Do you want gold records hanging on your home studio walls?
We can make that happen!

Do you want to demand only yellow M & M's on your performance rider?
We can make that happen!

Do you want your face on the cover of Rolling Stone?
We can make that happen!

Do you want to hide your vast wealth in offshore accounts while maintaining your "common man" persona?
We can make that happen!

Do you want a herd of groupies waiting for you at the stage door after your shows?

We can make that happen!


You've already tried it your way, and where are you? Still living in Mom's basement, and working at the Crazy Chicken fast food joint? Still shlepping your guitar to the open mics and posting your music on internet forums?

Stop kidding yourself!

To succeed in the music business, you need to be connected. You need the guidance of professionals who are dedicated to your career. People who can get your music to the right people. You need The Starmaker Machine!


Fact: 14,672 new CD's are released to the public every single second!
Fact: .000000012 % of these CD's will make a profit.
Fact: Most music today is pirated or downloaded for free.
Fact: Most musicians live lives of quiet desperation, ending tragically in drug addiction and suicide.

How can you overcome the daunting challenges of the music business? How can you get your music into the hands of millions of new fans? How can you get the money, prestige and women you truly desire?

By signing up for membership in The Starmaker Machine - that's how! 

Success is right around the corner. You can feel it. You are the greatest thing to ever hit the music business. You know it. We know it too! With The Starmaker Machine behind you, all your dreams will come true!

What can you expect to get with your membership? 

A professional demo of your song, recorded by top level studio pros!
Your own website on the Starmaker Page!
Two guest passes to The Bluebird Cafeteria in Nashville, Tn!
Two round-trip bus tickets to the Annual Starmaker Convention in Swamp Hollow, Arkansas!
Personal mentoring with Buddy Jay, award-winning songwriter of “Love's Done Got Me” and “The Blue Tick Hound Song”!!
Radio airplay on WSVJ in Wheeling, W.V.
Free membership in Broadcast Music Inc.!
Exclusive song critiques by our staff of award-winning songwriters/A & R / Producers!




Starmaker Staff:

Colonel Bob Parker, President.

Bob has scored a number of charting songs in his long illustrious career, most notably: “She Wouldn't Shut Up, So I Shot Her”, and “There's A Fly In My Beer And A Tear In My Eye” - and who could forget the timeless “Barrooms And Spitoons”?
Bob has also had a huge career on tour, opening for acts like Johnny Dolan's Rough Riders, Nancy Higgenbotham, Charlie Duncan and The Brittles! Bob also hosted a popular Radio Show on WDFR in Bugtussel, Ok.
Bob brings all his years of Music Business Business Experience to everything we do here at TSM, and through his guidance, we are growing every day!


Chet Haskins, C.E.O.
Chet is well known as a pioneer in The Music Business Business, having run a myriad of wildly successful websites catering to amateur songwriters and musicians, such as - “Wannabee.com”, “Poseur.com” and his biggest triumph - “YourSong.com”.
Chet knows all the right people, and can get your song to them!


Emongo Mobubu, Nigerian Chapter President.
Emongo is our rep in Africa. We get a TON of airplay for our clients in Africa! The royalties can be difficult to negotiate, but hey – it's airplay!


Chi Chi Monteno, Latin Music Director
Chi Chi began his music career as the Artistic Director at the BoomBoom Room in Detroit, then moved to L.A. to coordinate the 1st Annual Chicano Punk Festival in Culver City, which was headlined by none other than Juan Yuto! (“Maracas and Cucaraches”).

Why wait? Every passing day you slip further into oblivion! You want the fame – the fortune – YOU KNOW YOU DO!


Sign up TODAY!

1 Year Membership : $1500. USD
3 Year Membership : $6000. USD

Payable to:

Colonel Bob Parker
PO Box 2 
Happy Trails Motor Court
Muckoluski, OK. 



Membership Form:

Name____________________________________________
Address______________________________________
Email _______________________________________
Credit Card # ___________________________
SSN __________________________________
Bank Account Number(s) ______________________________________



LOL!!! I think I know the Colonel... smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1156103 - 08/27/19 06:41 PM Re: Advice on "The Odds" by Songtown. [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 259
JAPOV Online happy
Top 500 Poster
JAPOV  Online Happy
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 259
North Alabama
If a salesman or a politician
will say anything and promise nothing
skirting issues of complication
with a smiling well intended notion

Then who’s the fool who will not question
such a gentleman’s lucrative device
if at the closing of transaction
all you have is good advice…..


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856

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