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#1155306 - 07/16/19 11:41 PM He's a changed man - suggestions welcome  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Joined: Sep 2009
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Hi all, this is my 2nd co-write with JaneK and before we go to the music parts, any thoughts and suggestions on the lyrics will be appreciated.

Our thanks in advance

Roy & Jane

------------------------------------------------------


HE’S A CHANGED MAN (c)2019

verse 1
Been thirty years since the crime
That's how long he spent in Jail
Not the strong young man he was
Now he's stooped, half blind and frail

verse 2
The biggest crime that he did
Was leaving us both alone
Mum bought me up through childhood
Had to raise me on her own

chorus
When Mom was on her deathbed
'Please Forgive him' she said
We know that he was bad
But still he is your Dad

verse 3
So I hear he's on a train
And he's making his way home
Thirty years away from us,
No Word, No Letter, No Phone

Verse 4
I know that I must meet him
As it was my mothers wish
I don't expect a miracle
Or a long lost fathers kiss

Bridge
There always was his mother and his brother Norm
Kept us in the family, keeping us informed.
Told us that Dad had found God, and he was reformed
Growing up I called them nanny and my uncle Norm.

chorus
When mum was on her deathbed
'Please Forgive him' she said
We know that he was bad
But still he is your Dad

We know that he was bad
But still he is your Dad

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 07/18/19 12:13 AM.

'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

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#1155399 - 07/18/19 08:41 PM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
Hi Roy,

You have all the mechanics at work for a story told by the person who should have some complicated feelings about all this, given the scenario.

I think that's what I'm missing when I read it. It's like the daughter is just relating the story without injecting her own feelings into the mix. The story could just as easily by told in the third person, given what is being told to the listeners. In the first person singular, you're missing the opportunity to make your audience feel something by having the daughter feel something.

If he was in jail 30 years, for the daughter to say

The biggest crime that he did
Was leaving us both alone
Mum bought me up through childhood
Had to raise me on her own

Is good to make me understand there was resentment and hardship on the part of the dead mother and daughter, so that's all good, but it also makes me curious what the crime was, too, given that he was behind bars 30 years, and them being without him was worse, in their eyes.

"Norm" in the bridge feels a little forced, but I see you're trying to create some sympathy for the imprisoned dad's return.

I don't know..

Personally, I would cut off a smaller chunk of story and then include more of the daughter's raw feelings, even if that's a "void" where feelings for her dad should be. That "void" might lead to guilty, awful feelings ("I should feel something!"), on her part..complicated even further by the pressure put on her to forgive her dad, which in essence is the crux of the story, well placed in the chorus.

In a movie, once this "crux" is established, you need at least a "reaction shot" from the daughter, so we know how she feels about that. Likewise, in a song, it is probably even more crucial that something akin to this reaction shot is fed to the listener.

It then gets complicated quick, but to me, this is what a song can do in 3 minutes that sometimes an entire movie can't! Novels, movies, serialized drama..those will always be better at telling stories, whereas songs can convey and express more ineffable things that can nourish the soul of the listener--like shared emotions.

You have a lyric that's mostly the mechanics of the story, told from her POV, and that's a Golden opportunity for her to really share how she feels. That's what would captivate me, at least. smile

All just my very humble opinion..

Mike


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/19/19 03:44 AM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155409 - 07/19/19 06:47 AM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Thanks so much Mike for your in depth thoughts and suggestions. On reflection and taking into account your thoughts, you are probably right on much of what you said.

So I guess a re-write is in the pipeline lol...

Maybe others will look in and offer up their thoughts as well.

You know Mike so often what others say gets me to write a much better set of lyrics, so its always appreciated.

God Bless Roy


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1155416 - 07/19/19 11:41 AM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 206
ckiphen Online content
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ckiphen  Online Content
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- Select One - houston, texas...
Robbed a bank to save the farm
but we lost him and our home.
Mum bought me up through childhood
Had to raise me on her own.


Bridge
Part of me hated him.
part of me loved him
part of me didn't know.

#1155430 - 07/19/19 10:26 PM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 608
Moosesong Offline
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Moosesong  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 608
Roseville, CA, USA
I like the story

I agree with a lot of what Micheal says. The dynamic of how the singer feels about Dad is a strong part of the story that should come out more. perhaps child hood memories from before he left.

the bridge is nice, not at all bad, but its taking up valuable space that would be better filled with more info on the singer or the singers thoughts and feelings.

also I think a final verse worth considering is what does the singer decide or what happens when the singer sees Dad.
sorry mama cant do it
or a flood of fond memories come back
or i'll just have to wait and see ?

would "Tie a yellow ribbon" be half as good a song without the final verse?


David the (rather not be so very) Elder
Music page
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=707030

#1155433 - 07/19/19 11:59 PM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Originally Posted by ckiphen
Robbed a bank to save the farm
but we lost him and our home.
Mum bought me up through childhood
Had to raise me on her own.


Bridge
Part of me hated him.
part of me loved him
part of me didn't know.


Thanks ckiphen for adding to the suggestions...

ummm... food for thought when I do the rewrite..

God Bless Roy


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

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#1155435 - 07/20/19 12:06 AM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: Moosesong]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Hi Mooseong and thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

Some good points and direction pointers which are well appreciated..I will look at them again as I do a rewrite...

Originally Posted by Moosesong
would "Tie a yellow ribbon" be half as good a song without the final verse?

Your so right on that...

Thanks again

God Bless Roy


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1155472 - 07/21/19 08:00 PM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 553
JAPOV Online happy
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JAPOV  Online Happy
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 553
I know that I must meet him
As it was my mothers wish
I don't expect a miracle
Or a long lost fathers kiss
Will he even know me
What am I supposed to say
Not sure what to forgive
After thirty years away

#1155473 - 07/21/19 08:09 PM Re: He's a changed man - suggestions welcome [Re: JAPOV]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,169
Originally Posted by JAPOV
I know that I must meet him
As it was my mothers wish
I don't expect a miracle
Or a long lost fathers kiss
Will he even know me
What am I supposed to say
Not sure what to forgive
After thirty years away

Thanks JAPAV for stopping by and for the suggestion. It's appreciated..

I don't really want to increase the songs length, however, your suggestion may be useful when I do the rewrite...

It certainly flows perfectly and follows the story.

Thanks again

God Bless Roy


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

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