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#1155000 - 07/08/19 05:54 PM I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
Top 50 Poster
Michael Zaneski  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
California
Hi Folks,

So I thought this might be a fun way to analyse a song. I want you to think and try to recall a song lyric that you do not like but was in a song that was critically well received--something that you know you're in the minority on.

Can you analyse why you disagree with the critics?

Robots and automatons and people that always go along with the crowd need not apply.

Perhaps think of this as a more fun, esoteric "prove you're not a robot" test, or if you're into feeling a little humiliation, think of this as pure fun. wink

Here's some obligatory coaxing, "c'mon, guys and gals, you can't possibly be in-line with every critically popular song, and not be fakin' it, you know! "

I have had fun exploring my own psyche' in regards Elton John/Bernie Taupin's "Your Song" and I'll go first by wrapping up my thoughts on it.

Let's stay away from "Imagine" by John Lennon or any song that involves anyone's personal religious/agnostic/atheistic beliefs, okay?

*********************************************************************************************************

My thought on "Your Song" has evolved more in the past week than in the last 48 years prior.

For as long as I can remember, I thought the lyric to be clever bit of proto-shoegazer posturing.

After investigating how Bernie Taupin actually came to write the lyric, I found that "on the record" BT has said that "that is pretty much how I felt" and he wrote "Your Song" in one sitting, at EJ's mom's house when he was 17.

Seventeen, and probably a shy Brit. Let that sink in. Occam's Razor says often the simplest solution is often the right one, and in this case, we also have confirmation from the lyricist that this was the case:

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/elton-john/your-song

So this was a revelation to me. The narrator was not intentionally flawed. The lyricist was not some seasoned writing genius (at 17?) cleverly pretending to be a shy, unpolished first person singular in YS --as if he was masterminding and orchestrating that shy, imperfect voice--he was simply being himself, a shy 17 year old kid writing from his heart!

BT wrote "Your Song" authentically from his seventeen-ear-old heart, in one sitting, and knowing that, I could actually grow to like the song, I think, and it has taught me something that I think country music people have known all along: real humility, sincerity, and a conversational "tone" can help create a lyrical space where normal lyric writing rules need not apply.

I tried listening to it today, and still get a horrible feeling of doom in my chest, but my brain can like the song, except for ONE LINE, now,

But the sun's been quite kind
While I wrote this song
It's for people like you that
Keep it turned on.


I yell at the speakers every time I hear "it's for people like you that keep it turned on" --which makes my head reel for at least two reasons.

How is that different than saying "it's for anyone who chooses to listen to it" and how is that not a bit of a meaningless tautology?

Also, with this line, BT is betraying the notion that the song is for a particular person. Him saying "it's for people like you" would quickly make me feel less than special.

But this was a lyric with no apparent rewrites, just him writing at EJ's breakfast table one morning, and so it's in there, though I think the song is better without "people like you" which betrays the song's basic premise, IMHO..

But I've learned a lot about the song and myself while going on this slightly humiliating but fun journey. smile

************************************************************************************************************

So okay..

I hope that anyone that takes issue with my thoughts, that's fine, but please also play along and name a critically popular song whose lyric you are in the minority on, and delve into your own psyche' and I think it will be fun to hear why you hear that particular song different from most other people.

I've shown you mine.. smile

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/08/19 09:06 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155003 - 07/08/19 06:55 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Hi Folks,

So I thought this might be a fun way to analyse a song. I want you to think and try to recall a song lyric that you do not like but was in a song that was critically well received--something that you know you're in the minority on.

Can you analyse why you disagree with the critics?

Robots and automatons and people that always go along with the crowd need not apply.

Perhaps think of this as a more fun, esoteric "prove you're not a robot" test, or if you're into feeling a little humiliation, think of this as pure fun. wink

Here's some obligatory coaxing, "c'mon, guys and gals, you can't possibly be in-line with every critically popular song, and not be fakin' it, you know! "

I have had fun exploring my own psyche' in regards Elton John/Bernie Taupin's "Your Song" and I'll go first by wrapping up my thoughts on it.

Let's stay away from "Imagine" by John Lennon or any song that involves anyone's personal religious/agnostic/atheistic beliefs, okay?

*********************************************************************************************************

After investigating I found that "on the record" BT has said that "that is pretty much how I felt" and he wrote "Your Song" in one sitting, at EJ's mom's house when he was 17.

Seventeen, and probably a shy Brit. Let that sink in. Occam's Razor says often the simplest solution is often the right one, and in this case, we also have confirmation from the lyricist that this was the case:

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/elton-john/your-song


The narrator was not intentionally flawed. The lyricist was not some seasoned writing genius (at 17?) cleverly pretending to be a shy, unpolished first person singular in YS --as if he was masterminding and orchestrating that shy, imperfect voice--he was simply being himself, a shy 17 year old kid writing from his heart!

BT wrote "Your Song" authentically from his seventeen-ear-old heart, in one sitting, and knowing that, I could actually grow to like the song, I think, and it has taught me something that I think country music people have known all along: real humility, sincerity, and a conversational "tone" can help create a lyrical space where normal lyric writing rules need not apply.

I tried listening to it today, and still get a horrible feeling of doom in my chest, but my brain can like the song, except for ONE LINE, now,

But the sun's been quite kind
While I wrote this song
It's for people like you that
Keep it turned on.


I yell at the speakers every time I hear "it's for people like you that keep it turned on" --which makes my head reel for at least two reasons.

How is that different than saying "it's for anyone who chooses to listen to it" and how is that not a bit of a meaningless tautology?

Also, with this line, BT is betraying the notion that the song is for a particular person. Him saying "it's for people like you" would quickly make me feel less than special.

But this was a lyric with no apparent rewrites, just him writing at EJ's breakfast table one morning, and so it's in there, though I think the song is better without "people like you" which betrays the song's basic premise, IMHO..

But I've learned a lot about the song and myself while going on this slightly humiliating but fun journey. smile

************************************************************************************************************

So okay..

I hope that anyone that takes issue with my thoughts, that's fine, but please also play along and name a critically popular song whose lyric you are in the minority on, and delve into your own psyche' and I think it will be fun to hear why you hear that particular song different from most other people.

I've shown you mine.. smile

Mike


I think its a great idea to analyze some popular songs, just to see what people think of them. The problem with that though is you are suddenly pushed into a place where you have to come up with something about it. I think thats the internet at work. Once upon a time people just listened to songs, they didnt break them down for better or worse. I wish I could go back to a time where I didnt understand music, and chords and harmonies, when I just listened. If I try I can do it, but its a bit like NOT noticing the pink elephant in the room.

Much like art 10 people can listen and have 10 different views, most people dont care enough to even give an opinion, if its on its on, if not, its not. We give ourselves way too much credit, thinking people give a [naughty word removed] about our process, only other songwriting geeks do!

Back to YS. Its not that its intentionally made to sound off kilter or flawed, it just came out that way. And its not surprising that it came from the heart, cause it shows. Some of the lines like So excuse forgetting, or... but then again no, it's for people like you... just sound cool. Sometimes its how the words sound as opposed to what they mean. Listen to most REM songs, the words are everything even though they usually dont say much.

II recall Bob Seger saying that his line "I wish I didnt know now what I didnt know then" he was gonna throw away. And the producer said WHYYYY? He said cause he thought it was bad grammar, and the producer said I dont care if its bad grammar its a great line, so it stayed.

Sometimes style wins over substance, you dont forget those lines in Your Song!

#1155007 - 07/08/19 09:14 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
Top 50 Poster
Michael Zaneski  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Hi Folks,

So I thought this might be a fun way to analyse a song. I want you to think and try to recall a song lyric that you do not like but was in a song that was critically well received--something that you know you're in the minority on.

Can you analyse why you disagree with the critics?

Robots and automatons and people that always go along with the crowd need not apply.

Perhaps think of this as a more fun, esoteric "prove you're not a robot" test, or if you're into feeling a little humiliation, think of this as pure fun. wink

Here's some obligatory coaxing, "c'mon, guys and gals, you can't possibly be in-line with every critically popular song, and not be fakin' it, you know! "

I have had fun exploring my own psyche' in regards Elton John/Bernie Taupin's "Your Song" and I'll go first by wrapping up my thoughts on it.

Let's stay away from "Imagine" by John Lennon or any song that involves anyone's personal religious/agnostic/atheistic beliefs, okay?

*********************************************************************************************************

After investigating I found that "on the record" BT has said that "that is pretty much how I felt" and he wrote "Your Song" in one sitting, at EJ's mom's house when he was 17.

Seventeen, and probably a shy Brit. Let that sink in. Occam's Razor says often the simplest solution is often the right one, and in this case, we also have confirmation from the lyricist that this was the case:

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/elton-john/your-song


The narrator was not intentionally flawed. The lyricist was not some seasoned writing genius (at 17?) cleverly pretending to be a shy, unpolished first person singular in YS --as if he was masterminding and orchestrating that shy, imperfect voice--he was simply being himself, a shy 17 year old kid writing from his heart!

BT wrote "Your Song" authentically from his seventeen-ear-old heart, in one sitting, and knowing that, I could actually grow to like the song, I think, and it has taught me something that I think country music people have known all along: real humility, sincerity, and a conversational "tone" can help create a lyrical space where normal lyric writing rules need not apply.

I tried listening to it today, and still get a horrible feeling of doom in my chest, but my brain can like the song, except for ONE LINE, now,

But the sun's been quite kind
While I wrote this song
It's for people like you that
Keep it turned on.


I yell at the speakers every time I hear "it's for people like you that keep it turned on" --which makes my head reel for at least two reasons.

How is that different than saying "it's for anyone who chooses to listen to it" and how is that not a bit of a meaningless tautology?

Also, with this line, BT is betraying the notion that the song is for a particular person. Him saying "it's for people like you" would quickly make me feel less than special.

But this was a lyric with no apparent rewrites, just him writing at EJ's breakfast table one morning, and so it's in there, though I think the song is better without "people like you" which betrays the song's basic premise, IMHO..

But I've learned a lot about the song and myself while going on this slightly humiliating but fun journey. smile

************************************************************************************************************

So okay..

I hope that anyone that takes issue with my thoughts, that's fine, but please also play along and name a critically popular song whose lyric you are in the minority on, and delve into your own psyche' and I think it will be fun to hear why you hear that particular song different from most other people.

I've shown you mine.. smile

Mike


I think its a great idea to analyze some popular songs, just to see what people think of them. The problem with that though is you are suddenly pushed into a place where you have to come up with something about it. I think thats the internet at work. Once upon a time people just listened to songs, they didnt break them down for better or worse. I wish I could go back to a time where I didnt understand music, and chords and harmonies, when I just listened. If I try I can do it, but its a bit like NOT noticing the pink elephant in the room.

Much like art 10 people can listen and have 10 different views, most people dont care enough to even give an opinion, if its on its on, if not, its not. We give ourselves way too much credit, thinking people give a [naughty word removed] about our process, only other songwriting geeks do!

Back to YS. Its not that its intentionally made to sound off kilter or flawed, it just came out that way. And its not surprising that it came from the heart, cause it shows. Some of the lines like So excuse forgetting, or... but then again no, it's for people like you... just sound cool. Sometimes its how the words sound as opposed to what they mean. Listen to most REM songs, the words are everything even though they usually dont say much.

II recall Bob Seger saying that his line "I wish I didnt know now what I didnt know then" he was gonna throw away. And the producer said WHYYYY? He said cause he thought it was bad grammar, and the producer said I dont care if its bad grammar its a great line, so it stayed.

Sometimes style wins over substance, you don't forget those lines in Your Song!



Well my intention is not to "push" anyone to come up with anything, but thought that most folks could think of a song or two where they buck the odds and don't go with the flow. I thought that might be interesting to share and hear and understand, is all.

Rhetorically speaking, if this ain't the place for songwriting nerds, where is?

How is this a case of how the Internet is a bad thing?

I thought it could be a fun, unusual approach to talking about songs. smile

Mike


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155008 - 07/08/19 09:17 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,234
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,234
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Aw, Well,
Four I don't like very much but were pretty big. ELVIRA by the Oak Ridge Boys. SUNDY MORNING COMING DOWN, Written by Kris Krfstofferson, WOLVERTON MOUNTAIN and HELLO WALLS.


Ray E. Strode
#1155013 - 07/08/19 09:41 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
Top 50 Poster
Michael Zaneski  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
California
Whoa, Ray!

"Sunday Morning Coming Down" is one of my favorite songs ever!

I would certainly love to hear more than the headlines as to why you don't like it, if you're feeling it..

Mike


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155018 - 07/09/19 09:31 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Hi Folks,

So I thought this might be a fun way to analyse a song. I want you to think and try to recall a song lyric that you do not like but was in a song that was critically well received--something that you know you're in the minority on.

Can you analyse why you disagree with the critics?

Robots and automatons and people that always go along with the crowd need not apply.

Perhaps think of this as a more fun, esoteric "prove you're not a robot" test, or if you're into feeling a little humiliation, think of this as pure fun. wink

Here's some obligatory coaxing, "c'mon, guys and gals, you can't possibly be in-line with every critically popular song, and not be fakin' it, you know! "

I have had fun exploring my own psyche' in regards Elton John/Bernie Taupin's "Your Song" and I'll go first by wrapping up my thoughts on it.

Let's stay away from "Imagine" by John Lennon or any song that involves anyone's personal religious/agnostic/atheistic beliefs, okay?

*********************************************************************************************************

After investigating I found that "on the record" BT has said that "that is pretty much how I felt" and he wrote "Your Song" in one sitting, at EJ's mom's house when he was 17.

Seventeen, and probably a shy Brit. Let that sink in. Occam's Razor says often the simplest solution is often the right one, and in this case, we also have confirmation from the lyricist that this was the case:

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/elton-john/your-song


The narrator was not intentionally flawed. The lyricist was not some seasoned writing genius (at 17?) cleverly pretending to be a shy, unpolished first person singular in YS --as if he was masterminding and orchestrating that shy, imperfect voice--he was simply being himself, a shy 17 year old kid writing from his heart!

BT wrote "Your Song" authentically from his seventeen-ear-old heart, in one sitting, and knowing that, I could actually grow to like the song, I think, and it has taught me something that I think country music people have known all along: real humility, sincerity, and a conversational "tone" can help create a lyrical space where normal lyric writing rules need not apply.

I tried listening to it today, and still get a horrible feeling of doom in my chest, but my brain can like the song, except for ONE LINE, now,

But the sun's been quite kind
While I wrote this song
It's for people like you that
Keep it turned on.


I yell at the speakers every time I hear "it's for people like you that keep it turned on" --which makes my head reel for at least two reasons.

How is that different than saying "it's for anyone who chooses to listen to it" and how is that not a bit of a meaningless tautology?

Also, with this line, BT is betraying the notion that the song is for a particular person. Him saying "it's for people like you" would quickly make me feel less than special.

But this was a lyric with no apparent rewrites, just him writing at EJ's breakfast table one morning, and so it's in there, though I think the song is better without "people like you" which betrays the song's basic premise, IMHO..

But I've learned a lot about the song and myself while going on this slightly humiliating but fun journey. smile

************************************************************************************************************

So okay..

I hope that anyone that takes issue with my thoughts, that's fine, but please also play along and name a critically popular song whose lyric you are in the minority on, and delve into your own psyche' and I think it will be fun to hear why you hear that particular song different from most other people.

I've shown you mine.. smile

Mike


I think its a great idea to analyze some popular songs, just to see what people think of them. The problem with that though is you are suddenly pushed into a place where you have to come up with something about it. I think thats the internet at work. Once upon a time people just listened to songs, they didnt break them down for better or worse. I wish I could go back to a time where I didnt understand music, and chords and harmonies, when I just listened. If I try I can do it, but its a bit like NOT noticing the pink elephant in the room.

Much like art 10 people can listen and have 10 different views, most people dont care enough to even give an opinion, if its on its on, if not, its not. We give ourselves way too much credit, thinking people give a [naughty word removed] about our process, only other songwriting geeks do!

Back to YS. Its not that its intentionally made to sound off kilter or flawed, it just came out that way. And its not surprising that it came from the heart, cause it shows. Some of the lines like So excuse forgetting, or... but then again no, it's for people like you... just sound cool. Sometimes its how the words sound as opposed to what they mean. Listen to most REM songs, the words are everything even though they usually dont say much.

II recall Bob Seger saying that his line "I wish I didnt know now what I didnt know then" he was gonna throw away. And the producer said WHYYYY? He said cause he thought it was bad grammar, and the producer said I dont care if its bad grammar its a great line, so it stayed.

Sometimes style wins over substance, you don't forget those lines in Your Song!



Well my intention is not to "push" anyone to come up with anything, but thought that most folks could think of a song or two where they buck the odds and don't go with the flow. I thought that might be interesting to share and hear and understand, is all.

Rhetorically speaking, if this ain't the place for songwriting nerds, where is?

How is this a case of how the Internet is a bad thing?

I thought it could be a fun, unusual approach to talking about songs. smile

Mike


When I say push I mean, that when somebody asks a question, why is this song good, or why is this bad, you then switch gears from being a listener, to being an analyzer. Most folks listen and either stop listening, listen while doing something else, or keep listening cause they really like it. No reasons given.

yeah, as songwriters we look at things differently, and i do think its a great idea. it just changes how music is listened to when you listen under a microscope. But Im game, sounds like fun, this sort of thing has been done on other sites, be nice to see, but alot of folks dont even bother.

#1155020 - 07/09/19 09:58 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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I can admire and respect a song while gagging on it every time I hear it. One of Elvis Presley's greatest songs, "Suspicious Minds" falls into that category.

It makes my skin crawl. Seriously. Meanwhile, everything about it impresses me as a very well-written song. I understand the lyrics, I wouldn't rewrite them, they work perfectly, the music is hook-filled and the production is arranged masterfully. And I despise it.It doesn't make me feel good when it plays.

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

There. That felt good. And I KNOW I'm out on a limb that's about to crash into a burning forest. I'm caught in a trap.

#1155021 - 07/09/19 10:05 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I can admire and respect a song while gagging on it every time I hear it. One of Elvis Presley's greatest songs, "Suspicious Minds" falls into that category.

It makes my skin crawl. Seriously. Meanwhile, everything about it impresses me as a very well-written song. I understand the lyrics, I wouldn't rewrite them, they work perfectly, the music is hook-filled and the production is arranged masterfully. And I despise it.It doesn't make me feel good when it plays.

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

There. That felt good. And I KNOW I'm out on a limb that's about to crash into a burning forest. I'm caught in a trap.


This is very true also. Most people agree that classical music is some of the greatest music ever written, but how many of us want to listen to it? How many of us break it out at a party, lol

I agree, "somewhere over the rainbow" I feel is one of the greatest songs ever written, but personally I think it sucks, if that makes any sense. I guess it goes back to subjective and objective.

But i guess we can learn from stuff that we know is great, but dont necessarily like.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/09/19 10:09 AM.
#1155028 - 07/09/19 11:20 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Um, Well Michael,
I have been listening to country music since the early 50's. A lot of great songs have been recorded thruout that time, most before 1956. SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN envisions a guy in a drunken stupor who is so miserable he doesn't know which end is up and appears it will get no better. Not much to grab onto. Porter Wagoner a bit earlier recorded a song Entitled: Skid Row Joe. Not much better than SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN but on the same Theme.

Kristofferson is the son of an Air Force General, if I remember correctly and believe it or not a Rhodes Scholar. Now what the hell a Rhodes Scholar learns is beyond me but Kristofferson wanted to be a Country Songwriter. Eh well, me too. Johnny Cash had a slew of great songs before he recorded SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN. So it is a big letdown to me that he recorded such a song. It may have been a favor to K. However glad you like it.


Ray E. Strode
#1155029 - 07/09/19 11:37 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Um, Well Michael,
I have been listening to country music since the early 50's. A lot of great songs have been recorded thruout that time, most before 1956. SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN envisions a guy in a drunken stupor who is so miserable he doesn't know which end is up and appears it will get no better. Not much to grab onto. Porter Wagoner a bit earlier recorded a song Entitled: Skid Row Joe. Not much better than SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN but on the same Theme.

Kristofferson is the son of an Air Force General, if I remember correctly and believe it or not a Rhodes Scholar. Now what the hell a Rhodes Scholar learns is beyond me but Kristofferson wanted to be a Country Songwriter. Eh well, me too. Johnny Cash had a slew of great songs before he recorded SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN. So it is a big letdown to me that he recorded such a song. It may have been a favor to K. However glad you like it.


I just listened to Johnny Cashs version cause i wanted to know what the hell you were talking about LOL. 1956 shew

Good song, but seems to me to be more about not having family connections than it is drinking.

#1155033 - 07/09/19 12:54 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Vicarn Offline
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When I saw this post this song sprang immediately to mind. " Where Do You Go To My Lovely".
It's not so much the lyrics (apart from those annoying repeats like "yes they are", "yes you do" etc., which are quite clever but the tune is a constant drone to me.

No chorus, no bridge. Just the same rolling, annoying tune like a stuck record.
Last week a guy in a bar said to me it was his favourite song of the '60's so what do I know?

You talk like Marlene Dietrich
And you dance like Zizi Jeanmaire
Your clothes are all made by Balmain
And there's diamonds and pearls in your hair, yes there are

You live in a fancy apartment
Off the Boulevard St. Michel
Where you keep your Rolling Stones records
And a friend of Sacha Distel, yes you do

You go to the embassy parties
Where you talk in Russian and Greek
And the young men who move in your circles
They hang on every word you speak, yes they do

But where do you go to my lovely
When you're alone in your bed?
Tell me the thoughts that surround you
I want to look inside your head, yes I do

I've seen all your qualifications
You got from the Sorbonne
And the painting you stole from Picasso
Your loveliness goes on and on, yes it does

When you go on your summer vacation
You go to Juan-les-Pins
With your carefully designed topless swimsuit
You get an even suntan on your back, and on your legs


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1155034 - 07/09/19 01:02 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I can admire and respect a song while gagging on it every time I hear it. One of Elvis Presley's greatest songs, "Suspicious Minds" falls into that category.

It makes my skin crawl. Seriously. Meanwhile, everything about it impresses me as a very well-written song. I understand the lyrics, I wouldn't rewrite them, they work perfectly, the music is hook-filled and the production is arranged masterfully. And I despise it.It doesn't make me feel good when it plays.

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

There. That felt good. And I KNOW I'm out on a limb that's about to crash into a burning forest. I'm caught in a trap.



Hi Mark,

Haha, I am happy to have aided in you getting that off your chest!

That was probably his biggest chart hit (that and 'In The Ghetto') after he returned from Vietnam. I always thought it was a Mac Davis tune, but it turns out it's some writer named "Mark James" whose other big write was "Always On My Mind."

I think you're safe, Mark. "Suspicious Minds" is an easy song to dislike. The main thing for me is that 2/4 snare beat in the chorus was old even by 1969 and though I like it in some Tex-Mex music, on the upbeat, it just makes me think of gogo dancers, which isn't necessarily a bad thing I guess..Imagine the different kind of song this would have been with a Thom Bell production and Al Green singing.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/09/19 01:58 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155036 - 07/09/19 01:14 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I can admire and respect a song while gagging on it every time I hear it. One of Elvis Presley's greatest songs, "Suspicious Minds" falls into that category.

It makes my skin crawl. Seriously. Meanwhile, everything about it impresses me as a very well-written song. I understand the lyrics, I wouldn't rewrite them, they work perfectly, the music is hook-filled and the production is arranged masterfully. And I despise it.It doesn't make me feel good when it plays.

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

There. That felt good. And I KNOW I'm out on a limb that's about to crash into a burning forest. I'm caught in a trap.


This is very true also. Most people agree that classical music is some of the greatest music ever written, but how many of us want to listen to it? How many of us break it out at a party, lol

I agree, "somewhere over the rainbow" I feel is one of the greatest songs ever written, but personally I think it sucks, if that makes any sense. I guess it goes back to subjective and objective.

But i guess we can learn from stuff that we know is great, but dont necessarily like.



Hi FD,

Try to articulate why you think it sucks. This is where the fun lies, for me at least.

"Somewhere Over The Rainbow" was a meh song for me after I grew up, but then I heard Israel Kamakawiwo ole's version in the early 90s and fell in love with the song again. To me it's an innocent expression of longing to hold on to one's dreams. Holding on to the child inside ourselves, as it can be a source of light as we go through life. I think some songs are great but aren't durable enough to withstand a million listens. The melody and harmonic structure is so perfectly wed to the lyric that for me, this one can.

Love to hear you express why you no likey.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/09/19 01:16 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155037 - 07/09/19 01:33 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Um, Well Michael,
I have been listening to country music since the early 50's. A lot of great songs have been recorded thruout that time, most before 1956. SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN envisions a guy in a drunken stupor who is so miserable he doesn't know which end is up and appears it will get no better. Not much to grab onto. Porter Wagoner a bit earlier recorded a song Entitled: Skid Row Joe. Not much better than SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN but on the same Theme.

Kristofferson is the son of an Air Force General, if I remember correctly and believe it or not a Rhodes Scholar. Now what the hell a Rhodes Scholar learns is beyond me but Kristofferson wanted to be a Country Songwriter. Eh well, me too. Johnny Cash had a slew of great songs before he recorded SUNDAY MORNING COMING DOWN. So it is a big letdown to me that he recorded such a song. It may have been a favor to K. However glad you like it.


Hi Ray,

I think you have a superficial "read" on that KK lyric. To me, it's about loneliness and it speaks in brutally honest language the self-destructive measures we can go to feel less emotional pain. The lyric doesn't focus on the source of the pain, or any solutions to it, but is more like a snapshot of the vulnerable mental state the singer's in on Sunday, a day that for most of us signifies as FD says family life.

The song appeared amidst the Easy Listening Country phase of the early Seventies and made those songs (Rose Garden, For The Good Times, etc.) look saccharine by comparison.

Cash would revisit this theme when he recorded Trent Reznor's great song, "Hurt" in 2003.

Mike



Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/09/19 02:00 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155038 - 07/09/19 01:50 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
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I have a problem with a whole specific sub-category of songs..

Whatever subcategory of noxious songs "The Greatest Love" falls into. If you're gonna tell me I should "learn to love myself" (cuz it's, after all, the greatest love) --I'm gonna need a dinner and a nice walk in the park, first.

It belongs in a musical called, "Social Workers!" and kept there, away from humanity, forever.
And I've also "Never Been To Me" and I hope it never happens, LOL...

I'm guess I'm just a jaded ex-record store guy..

Mike


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/09/19 02:05 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155039 - 07/09/19 02:46 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I can admire and respect a song while gagging on it every time I hear it. One of Elvis Presley's greatest songs, "Suspicious Minds" falls into that category.

It makes my skin crawl. Seriously. Meanwhile, everything about it impresses me as a very well-written song. I understand the lyrics, I wouldn't rewrite them, they work perfectly, the music is hook-filled and the production is arranged masterfully. And I despise it.It doesn't make me feel good when it plays.

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

There. That felt good. And I KNOW I'm out on a limb that's about to crash into a burning forest. I'm caught in a trap.


This is very true also. Most people agree that classical music is some of the greatest music ever written, but how many of us want to listen to it? How many of us break it out at a party, lol

I agree, "somewhere over the rainbow" I feel is one of the greatest songs ever written, but personally I think it sucks, if that makes any sense. I guess it goes back to subjective and objective.

But i guess we can learn from stuff that we know is great, but dont necessarily like.



Hi FD,

Try to articulate why you think it sucks. This is where the fun lies, for me at least.

"Somewhere Over The Rainbow" was a meh song for me after I grew up, but then I heard Israel Kamakawiwo ole's version in the early 90s and fell in love with the song again. To me it's an innocent expression of longing to hold on to one's dreams. Holding on to the child inside ourselves, as it can be a source of light as we go through life. I think some songs are great but aren't durable enough to withstand a million listens. The melody and harmonic structure is so perfectly wed to the lyric that for me, this one can.

Love to hear you express why you no likey.

Mike


I could say why I think its a great write, and why I dont like it? Sounds like a bit like a hot ice pack.... lol

"Objective" why I think its great.
Great write because it's a perfectly simple, economistic, universal idea. Speaks of transcendence, which oddly in most of the rock music I listen to, that's what I tend to like. very to the point and short and sweet, no wasted words, like most standards.

It's a feel good song that makes you think of not really the way things are, but the way things could be. Sweet, nice, wholesome. Uplifting during some hard periods in our country, Gorgeous melody, great arrangement on the track.


Why I dont like it: Subjective

Basic reason is it's not in my wheelhouse of music. I like alot of different stuff but music like that just never did anything for me. So overall tastes.

Sappy, while nice and sweet, it's bullchit. Written specifically to tug on the heart strings, in a pretentious kind of way. Some of the best stuff just gets you without trying, this tries a bit too hard. I dont like music that refuses to look out the window...so to speak.

Boring. Again might be part of the musical tastes idea.

But if I saw somebody post it here, I would surely clap and recognize the talent and the beauty of the music they just posted. I just wouldnt listen to it on my own time!



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/09/19 02:50 PM.
#1155040 - 07/09/19 03:10 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Hi again, Mark,

I should add that this is a fun bit of prose and spot-on assessment for me as well:

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

It's a mini-catharsis when we can articulate a feeling. smile

Mike


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155041 - 07/09/19 03:55 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Hi again, Mark,

I should add that this is a fun bit of prose and spot-on assessment for me as well:

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

It's a mini-catharsis when we can articulate a feeling. smile

Mike


Yeah thats a good point, and maybe more on point than anything too. A song about not trusting each other delivered by a singer who at that point in his career doesnt seem like somebody you should trust...life imitating art? Im Sure Elvis had alot of that going on in his life too

#1155045 - 07/09/19 05:41 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Minneapolis
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Imagine the different kind of song this would have been with a Thom Bell production and Al Green singing.



Whoa! That would definitely fly. I could relate to that—in a way that Elvis's delivery and arrangement doesn't allow me to relate to, because it just doesn't *sound* like the feeling when I've felt it. The feeling is less bombastic, and definitely not like a Phil Spector fever dream. I wish the Righteous Brothers had beaten him to the punch much earlier, because this arrangement would really work for them. But Al Green! Man that would sound great.

#1155046 - 07/09/19 05:49 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Wow, I just read that Donna Godchaux is one of the "Ooo-oo-oo-oo-ooooooo" voices on "Suspicious Minds". Elvis was a Deadhead!

#1155054 - 07/09/19 09:48 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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I’ll play! “Call Me”. artist: Blondie.

This is just an annoying song/lyric to me. When it comes on the radio, I change the channel. There’s a bazillion “Call me” lines in the lyric and it grates on my nerves. The song is on the soundtrack of the movie, “American Gigolo”. I don't think I ever saw that movie, but I know many people think the song is fun and playful...with the “Ooo-ooo-ooos” and foreign language...what is that French, Italian? I don't know what those words mean but imo, they’re the most interesting part of the lyric. More enticing of her suitor there (that's the whole song, though, isn't it?)...and the words sing well and at least she’s not repeating, “call me”! grin

Also, the song has a drive to the music that starts from the get-go and does not stop which I might be able to get behind if there were no lyrics....lol.

And I remember it playing on the radio when I was younger c-o-n-s-t-a-n-t-l-y. “Call me” has permeated my brain permanently I think! It’s become so “sing-songy” in my mind. That’s it! I bet the radio ruined it for me---overplaying the song. And how many years ago did it come out and here I am....still sick of it? Wow.


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
#1155084 - 07/10/19 12:17 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Vicarn]  
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Originally Posted by Vicarn
When I saw this post this song sprang immediately to mind. " Where Do You Go To My Lovely".
It's not so much the lyrics (apart from those annoying repeats like "yes they are", "yes you do" etc., which are quite clever but the tune is a constant drone to me.

No chorus, no bridge. Just the same rolling, annoying tune like a stuck record.
Last week a guy in a bar said to me it was his favourite song of the '60's so what do I know?

You talk like Marlene Dietrich
And you dance like Zizi Jeanmaire
Your clothes are all made by Balmain
And there's diamonds and pearls in your hair, yes there are

You live in a fancy apartment
Off the Boulevard St. Michel
Where you keep your Rolling Stones records
And a friend of Sacha Distel, yes you do

You go to the embassy parties
Where you talk in Russian and Greek
And the young men who move in your circles
They hang on every word you speak, yes they do

But where do you go to my lovely
When you're alone in your bed?
Tell me the thoughts that surround you
I want to look inside your head, yes I do

I've seen all your qualifications
You got from the Sorbonne
And the painting you stole from Picasso
Your loveliness goes on and on, yes it does

When you go on your summer vacation
You go to Juan-les-Pins
With your carefully designed topless swimsuit
You get an even suntan on your back, and on your legs


youtube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8XQZYIiNgo

Hi Vic,

Yes, a well known hit in Britain that didn't cross the pond, but I know the song. Kind of like a second-rate Scott Walker tune, name dropping French people and places. Cloaked in reverb and a vocal style that might've inspired Natalie Merchant's. And despite all that, I think I'd like the song if it weren't for the length. But yeah, it's pretty much 1, 6, 4, 5, all the way through.

I was into the whole Scott Walker thing (years later, though--I was too young at the time), but the more esoteric he got, the more I loved his work, and this takes all his worst qualities and distills it into a pretentious, sing-songy, never ending, blurring mess!

Nice one!

Thanks,

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/10/19 01:05 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155089 - 07/10/19 12:48 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I can admire and respect a song while gagging on it every time I hear it. One of Elvis Presley's greatest songs, "Suspicious Minds" falls into that category.

It makes my skin crawl. Seriously. Meanwhile, everything about it impresses me as a very well-written song. I understand the lyrics, I wouldn't rewrite them, they work perfectly, the music is hook-filled and the production is arranged masterfully. And I despise it.It doesn't make me feel good when it plays.

It goes back to childhood, so maybe I'm responding to the combination of the impossible complainy message that also drips with "I love you" while saying "I don't trust you at all and nor you me" all coming from the overwrought delivery from that fat sweaty guy in a comedic superhero suit who used to be so cool.

There. That felt good. And I KNOW I'm out on a limb that's about to crash into a burning forest. I'm caught in a trap.


This is very true also. Most people agree that classical music is some of the greatest music ever written, but how many of us want to listen to it? How many of us break it out at a party, lol

I agree, "somewhere over the rainbow" I feel is one of the greatest songs ever written, but personally I think it sucks, if that makes any sense. I guess it goes back to subjective and objective.

But i guess we can learn from stuff that we know is great, but dont necessarily like.



Hi FD,

Try to articulate why you think it sucks. This is where the fun lies, for me at least.

"Somewhere Over The Rainbow" was a meh song for me after I grew up, but then I heard Israel Kamakawiwo ole's version in the early 90s and fell in love with the song again. To me it's an innocent expression of longing to hold on to one's dreams. Holding on to the child inside ourselves, as it can be a source of light as we go through life. I think some songs are great but aren't durable enough to withstand a million listens. The melody and harmonic structure is so perfectly wed to the lyric that for me, this one can.

Love to hear you express why you no likey.

Mike


I could say why I think its a great write, and why I dont like it? Sounds like a bit like a hot ice pack.... lol

"Objective" why I think its great.
Great write because it's a perfectly simple, economistic, universal idea. Speaks of transcendence, which oddly in most of the rock music I listen to, that's what I tend to like. very to the point and short and sweet, no wasted words, like most standards.

It's a feel good song that makes you think of not really the way things are, but the way things could be. Sweet, nice, wholesome. Uplifting during some hard periods in our country, Gorgeous melody, great arrangement on the track.


Why I dont like it: Subjective

Basic reason is it's not in my wheelhouse of music. I like alot of different stuff but music like that just never did anything for me. So overall tastes.

Sappy, while nice and sweet, it's bullchit. Written specifically to tug on the heart strings, in a pretentious kind of way. Some of the best stuff just gets you without trying, this tries a bit too hard. I dont like music that refuses to look out the window...so to speak.

Boring. Again might be part of the musical tastes idea.

But if I saw somebody post it here, I would surely clap and recognize the talent and the beauty of the music they just posted. I just wouldnt listen to it on my own time!




The Isreal K version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BeKhlUzPUc


Hi FD,

Can we ever really know if a song is designed to pull on our heartstrings?

You never liked the song in "The Wizard of Oz?"

One could argue, SOTR is all about "looking out the window" but I think maybe you must mean something different than I do when I think about looking out the window. In fact, isn't Dorothy literally looking out of her bedroom window when she sings SOTR?!?

I can see how there can be psychological underpinnings, too.

I think I dislike "Suspicious Minds" mostly because the sentiments expressed in it are not so different from the kind that end up in abusive relationships, and though my dad died when I was young, my mother would often talk about hurtful things he did, usually when drunk--but ALWAYS ended each talk with, "but I loved your father" --kinda indoctrinating me into the same, "love equals abuse" kinda mentality. And so hearing that echoed in pop songs would often bring on a visceral dread.

Not that this is you, FD, but I can imagine mature adults who don't like SOTR because life played a number on their inner-child and so songs about dreaming for something (probably) unobtainable always felt a bit phony, because to the "old man" in us, those things certainly are.

But I know you're a dreamer. Couldn't be and not love Springsteen's "Born To Run" album which has a strong undercurrent running through it of wanting some kind of "rainbow" that's out there if we go find it. So with you, I can see it's about the sound, the delivery, more than the message. Bruce hits your sweet spot.

Specifically, to me, the song "Born To Run" is very much to me like SOTR in tone and story. There's great yearning in each. SOTR keeps everything vague and reaches universally. The Boss' song is more Beat poet influenced with longer lines, finding a nice hybrid style that is more prose-like with many specifics, but is arguably universal as well. SOTR is a just a ditty to Born to Run's epic poetry. Both, to me are great songs, with different ways of telling a story of yearning to be somewhere else, somewhere better.

Thanks for your thoughtful take. smile

Mike


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/10/19 01:57 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155090 - 07/10/19 12:52 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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I'm glad folks have avoided a few obvious songs like "The Pina Colada Song," "Seasons In the Sun," "Playground In My Mind," and anything bubble-gum.

I can imagine "Alone Again, Naturally" might be disliked for its confusingly happy music/depressing lyric, but I always loved the song. It's Chaplin's "Smile" without telling me what to do, but with a back story.

Those were somehow both extremely popular and critically vilified.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/10/19 01:59 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155091 - 07/10/19 01:01 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Kristi McKeever
I’ll play! “Call Me”. artist: Blondie.

This is just an annoying song/lyric to me. When it comes on the radio, I change the channel. There’s a bazillion “Call me” lines in the lyric and it grates on my nerves. The song is on the soundtrack of the movie, “American Gigolo”. I don't think I ever saw that movie, but I know many people think the song is fun and playful...with the “Ooo-ooo-ooos” and foreign language...what is that French, Italian? I don't know what those words mean but imo, they’re the most interesting part of the lyric. More enticing of her suitor there (that's the whole song, though, isn't it?)...and the words sing well and at least she’s not repeating, “call me”! grin

Also, the song has a drive to the music that starts from the get-go and does not stop which I might be able to get behind if there were no lyrics....lol.

And I remember it playing on the radio when I was younger c-o-n-s-t-a-n-t-l-y. “Call me” has permeated my brain permanently I think! It’s become so “sing-songy” in my mind. That’s it! I bet the radio ruined it for me---overplaying the song. And how many years ago did it come out and here I am....still sick of it? Wow.


Hi Kristi,

Ha! Smiling..love your post..

Debbie Harry puts me to sleep for some reason. I mean, Blondie's "One Way Or Another" is not so different from The Pretenders' "Brass In Pocket" (aka "Make You Notice") but I like the latter. Videodrone is the only Cronenberg movie that's a snoozefest for me. I've never made it to the end.

The fact that I've heard "Call Me" a million times, and when I replay the song in my head I get, "CALL ME! Ahaaaaaa, blah blah blah blah blaaaah, CALL ME, blah blah," and so on and so forth tells me that my brain was shutting down every time I heard the song. Now it has invaded my local supermarket and though there's no visceral dread like for you, I find myself quickly focusing on what kind of salad dressing works with the pasta. . smile

Thanks for your fun take. May you have a "Call Me" free life from here on, forward!

Mike



Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/10/19 01:39 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155094 - 07/10/19 01:21 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
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California
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Imagine the different kind of song this would have been with a Thom Bell production and Al Green singing.



Whoa! That would definitely fly. I could relate to that—in a way that Elvis's delivery and arrangement doesn't allow me to relate to, because it just doesn't *sound* like the feeling when I've felt it. The feeling is less bombastic, and definitely not like a Phil Spector fever dream. I wish the Righteous Brothers had beaten him to the punch much earlier, because this arrangement would really work for them. But Al Green! Man that would sound great.


Yeah, As I told FD above, I found the psychological underpinning as to "why" I disliked the Suspicious Minds lyric.

But for me, like you, it's mainly the kind of forced drama the producer thought was a good thing for the song. Bell/Green would let the lyric do that work. The horn arrangement could be identical, but Green's approach was always "cooler" and more approachable.

If I had detoured my life into the practice of psychiatry, I think I would use the discovery of this "name a song you hate that everybody loves" as a way into a patient's psyche' ..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/10/19 01:43 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155096 - 07/10/19 02:51 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
[quote=Michael Zaneski][quote=Fdemetrio][quote=Mark Kaufman]I




The Isreal K version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BeKhlUzPUc


Hi FD,

Can we ever really know if a song is designed to pull on our heartstrings?

You never liked the song in "The Wizard of Oz?"

One could argue, SOTR is all about "looking out the window" but I think maybe you must mean something different than I do when I think about looking out the window. In fact, isn't Dorothy literally looking out of her bedroom window when she sings SOTR?!?

I can see how there can be psychological underpinnings, too.

I think I dislike "Suspicious Minds" mostly because the sentiments expressed in it are not so different from the kind that end up in abusive relationships, and though my dad died when I was young, my mother would often talk about hurtful things he did, usually when drunk--but ALWAYS ended each talk with, "but I loved your father" --kinda indoctrinating me into the same, "love equals abuse" kinda mentality. And so hearing that echoed in pop songs would often bring on a visceral dread.

Not that this is you, FD, but I can imagine mature adults who don't like SOTR because life played a number on their inner-child and so songs about dreaming for something (probably) unobtainable always felt a bit phony, because to the "old man" in us, those things certainly are.

But I know you're a dreamer. Couldn't be and not love Springsteen's "Born To Run" album which has a strong undercurrent running through it of wanting some kind of "rainbow" that's out there if we go find it. So with you, I can see it's about the sound, the delivery, more than the message. Bruce hits your sweet spot.

Specifically, to me, the song "Born To Run" is very much to me like SOTR in tone and story. There's great yearning in each. SOTR keeps everything vague and reaches universally. The Boss' song is more Beat poet influenced with longer lines, finding a nice hybrid style that is more prose-like with many specifics, but is arguably universal as well. SOTR is a just a ditty to Born to Run's epic poetry. Both, to me are great songs, with different ways of telling a story of yearning to be somewhere else, somewhere better.

Thanks for your thoughtful take. smile

Mike



I think likes of styles of music play a huge role. We never really had a metal head here or a dead head, chances are they wont like any song first and foremost if its not metal or not Jerry. With Metal heads its a bit of a badge of honor, I only like metal. You wont see Ray speaking of a song thats not country from 1950.

Im a bit more rounded, I like folk, blues, some country, Sinatra, Smokey Robinson. But were all guilty of that.

Bruce always made me aware of the possibilities. Its not just about sound actually. One of my biggest complaints of Bruce was that his music never contained enough guitar. He has two great players as well as himself, and the featured pieces were piano and sax. He really did soul music above anything else.

Yeah I prefer Bruce's delivery to Judy Garlands, but thats not the whole thing. Bruce's music many consider to be a downer. To me when he sang "im goin down" (one of my favorite tracks) I didnt feel like I was going down, I felt I was going up, ready to find something better. He didnt sugar coat like SOTR, he laid it out in all its ugliness but found optimism in it. Somewhere over the rainbow doesnt come anywhere near BTR, as far as entertainment.. But I can still marvel at the craft and the marriage of lyric and melody and all that good stuff. its probably more polished that way than BTR, but doesnt blow your doors off.

In fairness, SOTR was probably more of a kids song, and actually no....I never liked Wizard of Oz, I remember watching it many times, but not really liking it the way I did Willie Wonka, for example.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/10/19 03:10 PM.
#1155097 - 07/10/19 02:53 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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I think the next post should be, I LOVE a song Nobody else seems to like. I have alot of those

#1155110 - 07/10/19 06:55 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Sep 2011
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Pat Hardy Offline
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For me, the test of a great song is "will it last?". I can hear "In My Life" and still love it. But a song like "Your Song"? I liked it when it came out, but the lustre faded, I really don't care for it anymore.

Last edited by Pat Hardy; 07/10/19 06:56 PM.
#1155111 - 07/10/19 09:17 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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There is no test.


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1155114 - 07/11/19 02:27 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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JAPOV Offline
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North Alabama
Here's a little
Song I wrote
You might want to
Sing it note for note
Don't worry, be happy
In every life we
Have some trouble
But when you worry
You make it double
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy now

Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy

Ain't got no place
To lay your head
Somebody came
And took your bed
Don't worry, be happy
The landlord say
Your rent is late
He may have to litigate
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy

Don't worry, be happy,
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy,
Don't worry, be happy

To me, this song is what’s wrong with the entire freakin' world! It is an exercise in the propagation of apathy, and I have despised it from the moment I first heard it! Go figure Lol..... smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155128 - 07/11/19 11:26 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
[quote=Michael Zaneski][quote=Fdemetrio][quote=Mark Kaufman]I




The Isreal K version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BeKhlUzPUc


Hi FD,

Can we ever really know if a song is designed to pull on our heartstrings?

You never liked the song in "The Wizard of Oz?"

One could argue, SOTR is all about "looking out the window" but I think maybe you must mean something different than I do when I think about looking out the window. In fact, isn't Dorothy literally looking out of her bedroom window when she sings SOTR?!?

I can see how there can be psychological underpinnings, too.

I think I dislike "Suspicious Minds" mostly because the sentiments expressed in it are not so different from the kind that end up in abusive relationships, and though my dad died when I was young, my mother would often talk about hurtful things he did, usually when drunk--but ALWAYS ended each talk with, "but I loved your father" --kinda indoctrinating me into the same, "love equals abuse" kinda mentality. And so hearing that echoed in pop songs would often bring on a visceral dread.

Not that this is you, FD, but I can imagine mature adults who don't like SOTR because life played a number on their inner-child and so songs about dreaming for something (probably) unobtainable always felt a bit phony, because to the "old man" in us, those things certainly are.

But I know you're a dreamer. Couldn't be and not love Springsteen's "Born To Run" album which has a strong undercurrent running through it of wanting some kind of "rainbow" that's out there if we go find it. So with you, I can see it's about the sound, the delivery, more than the message. Bruce hits your sweet spot.

Specifically, to me, the song "Born To Run" is very much to me like SOTR in tone and story. There's great yearning in each. SOTR keeps everything vague and reaches universally. The Boss' song is more Beat poet influenced with longer lines, finding a nice hybrid style that is more prose-like with many specifics, but is arguably universal as well. SOTR is a just a ditty to Born to Run's epic poetry. Both, to me are great songs, with different ways of telling a story of yearning to be somewhere else, somewhere better.

Thanks for your thoughtful take. smile

Mike



I think likes of styles of music play a huge role. We never really had a metal head here or a dead head, chances are they wont like any song first and foremost if its not metal or not Jerry. With Metal heads its a bit of a badge of honor, I only like metal. You wont see Ray speaking of a song thats not country from 1950.

Im a bit more rounded, I like folk, blues, some country, Sinatra, Smokey Robinson. But were all guilty of that.

Bruce always made me aware of the possibilities. Its not just about sound actually. One of my biggest complaints of Bruce was that his music never contained enough guitar. He has two great players as well as himself, and the featured pieces were piano and sax. He really did soul music above anything else.

Yeah I prefer Bruce's delivery to Judy Garlands, but thats not the whole thing. Bruce's music many consider to be a downer. To me when he sang "im goin down" (one of my favorite tracks) I didnt feel like I was going down, I felt I was going up, ready to find something better. He didnt sugar coat like SOTR, he laid it out in all its ugliness but found optimism in it. Somewhere over the rainbow doesnt come anywhere near BTR, as far as entertainment.. But I can still marvel at the craft and the marriage of lyric and melody and all that good stuff. its probably more polished that way than BTR, but doesnt blow your doors off.

In fairness, SOTR was probably more of a kids song, and actually no....I never liked Wizard of Oz, I remember watching it many times, but not really liking it the way I did Willie Wonka, for example.



Speaking of Willie Wonka. I'd think "Candy Man" would be much despised by somebody..but it was never a well loved song, anyway.

Yeah BTR and SOTR are apples and oranges except for the common underlying theme, which makes it fun to try to compare them.


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155129 - 07/11/19 11:29 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Jul 2006
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I think the next post should be, I LOVE a song Nobody else seems to like. I have alot of those


Sounds like fun.

Feel free to start that thread if you want. I'd contribute after I thought of one. I imagine success in generating responses will come with naming songs most folks are familiar with.

Mike


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155131 - 07/11/19 11:40 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: JAPOV]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,912
Michael Zaneski Offline
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California
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Here's a little
Song I wrote
You might want to
Sing it note for note
Don't worry, be happy
In every life we
Have some trouble
But when you worry
You make it double
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy now

Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy

Ain't got no place
To lay your head
Somebody came
And took your bed
Don't worry, be happy
The landlord say
Your rent is late
He may have to litigate
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy

Don't worry, be happy,
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy,
Don't worry, be happy

To me, this song is what’s wrong with the entire freakin' world! It is an exercise in the propagation of apathy, and I have despised it from the moment I first heard it! Go figure Lol..... smile


Hi Tony,

Well, you aren't alone in disliking this song. It was hated by many from the time it came out, but defied the odds and became a smash hit. I imagine it was the fact that it was all McFerrin's voice--that made it kinda novel at the time. I don't think Rundgren had done his all voice album, yet.

I don't mind the song and read it a little different than you. To me he's saying, "all this bad stuff might be happening to you, so just take a time out, cuz there's nothing you can do about it at the moment" --and YES I realize his lyric is actually saying something more like "give up being responsible and be a moron" LOL..but it has that Reggae vibe and I associate it with finding a way to relax, more than anything..

I can also imagine that a little humor was intended, cuz he's describing homelessness and saying DWBH..maybe he could have made that humor even more apparent and absurd with further verses:

your family's all dead
you got a tumor in your head
don't worry..be happy..


cuz then if we shift into seeing McFerrin's intention was also to make us smile from the absurdity of being happy in the face of such tragedy, and then maybe his DWBH idea has already worked..if we smiled, that is..

Mike






Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/11/19 11:50 AM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155132 - 07/11/19 11:49 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
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Posts: 1,257
I think Dont Worry Be Happy as a song, was terrible. And it showed us that all you need is a catchy hook and can have a hit. Also shows that most listeners dont need much in a song to make them satisfied. The idea comes from an ancient proverb.

That whistle hook was pretty clever, and sticks in the brain, and amazingly he had a hit with it with an a cappela arrangement.

It was such a novelty when it came out, nothing like it was ever played on the radio. Instantly people starting liking it. But I agree, overall the song is pretty shite.

Mcferrin is a talented guy though


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/11/19 11:53 AM.
#1155154 - 07/12/19 04:19 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 228
Cheyenne Offline
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Posts: 228
Florida U.S.A.
loved This song still do cant believe someone could class it as trite

SUNDAY MORNING SIDEWALK

COUNTRY MUSIC ASSOCIATION SONG OF THE YEAR
FOR 1970

SOME YOU TUBE COMMENTS below

Every time i need a drink I listen to this and some how it makes me put the cork back in the bottle.
------------------------------------------------
I have never seen a non-production video of a song that I have liked -- Until this one.
----------------------------------------------
Excellent job!!

"I Fumbled for my Cleanest Dirty Shirt"

one of my all time favorite lines and one that inspired me to start writing songs!


Being the ex-wife of an alcoholic Vietnam combat veteran (who is now sober), I can attest to the authenticity of these lyrics.

Whatever words I heard here I could once see in the tormented, hung-over morning eyes of my husband.


Well how could anybody who has written a Country Song describe this as A Song Sung By A Drunk out on his feet so to

speak ?


MY Take On This


The singer is describing the morning after
A binge ,with a look back over his life to date

Every line is original, Hes
accomplished what most decent writers try to
do ---Write every line in a way that no one else has done before ,
It’s a Classic


Some lines in the first verse

Sunday Morning Sidewalk


With No way to hold my head that didn’t hurt


The Beer I had for breakfast wasn-t bad ---

So I had one more for desert


I fumbled in my closet and found my

cleanest dirty shirt


---------------------------------------------
As For Myself I Would say

Probably the best seventies country song

Ever written

I have not met many people who don’t rate Kris Kristoferson Songs

Last edited by Cheyenne; 07/12/19 12:46 PM.

One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1155158 - 07/12/19 07:40 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 175
JAPOV Offline
Serious Contributor
JAPOV  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 175
North Alabama
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Here's a little
Song I wrote
You might want to
Sing it note for note
Don't worry, be happy
In every life we
Have some trouble
But when you worry
You make it double
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy now

Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy

Ain't got no place
To lay your head
Somebody came
And took your bed
Don't worry, be happy
The landlord say
Your rent is late
He may have to litigate
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy

Don't worry, be happy,
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy,
Don't worry, be happy

To me, this song is what’s wrong with the entire freakin' world! It is an exercise in the propagation of apathy, and I have despised it from the moment I first heard it! Go figure Lol..... smile


Hi Tony,

Well, you aren't alone in disliking this song. It was hated by many from the time it came out, but defied the odds and became a smash hit. I imagine it was the fact that it was all McFerrin's voice--that made it kinda novel at the time. I don't think Rundgren had done his all voice album, yet.

I don't mind the song and read it a little different than you. To me he's saying, "all this bad stuff might be happening to you, so just take a time out, cuz there's nothing you can do about it at the moment" --and YES I realize his lyric is actually saying something more like "give up being responsible and be a moron" LOL..but it has that Reggae vibe and I associate it with finding a way to relax, more than anything..

I can also imagine that a little humor was intended, cuz he's describing homelessness and saying DWBH..maybe he could have made that humor even more apparent and absurd with further verses:

your family's all dead
you got a tumor in your head
don't worry..be happy..


cuz then if we shift into seeing McFerrin's intention was also to make us smile from the absurdity of being happy in the face of such tragedy, and then maybe his DWBH idea has already worked..if we smiled, that is..

Mike






It's actually funny you say that...... Makes me wonder how many ways the song was edited before it was allowed to air.


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155175 - 07/12/19 01:03 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: JAPOV]  
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Cheyenne Offline
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DONT WORRY BE HAPPY

It"s an example that a special voice alongside a popular tempo and a simple

message , can be a hit


It's not shite ---it's something the average weekend dancer can have a bit of fun with

What else could you write to a simple piece of music and a dance tempo that is

popularized by drug heads all over the world; I have no problem with it

I cant see that its worth such venomous comments.


One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1155176 - 07/12/19 01:13 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
loved This song still do cant believe someone could class it as trite

SUNDAY MORNING SIDEWALK

COUNTRY MUSIC ASSOCIATION SONG OF THE YEAR
FOR 1970

SOME YOU TUBE COMMENTS below

Every time i need a drink I listen to this and some how it makes me put the cork back in the bottle.
------------------------------------------------
I have never seen a non-production video of a song that I have liked -- Until this one.
----------------------------------------------
Excellent job!!

"I Fumbled for my Cleanest Dirty Shirt"

one of my all time favorite lines and one that inspired me to start writing songs!


Being the ex-wife of an alcoholic Vietnam combat veteran (who is now sober), I can attest to the authenticity of these lyrics.

Whatever words I heard here I could once see in the tormented, hung-over morning eyes of my husband.


Well how could anybody who has written a Country Song describe this as A Song Sung By A Drunk out on his feet so to

speak ?


MY Take On This


The singer is describing the morning after
A binge ,with a look back over his life to date

Every line is original, Hes
accomplished what most decent writers try to
do ---Write every line in a way that no one else has done before ,
It’s a Classic


Some lines in the first verse

Sunday Morning Sidewalk


With No way to hold my head that didn’t hurt


The Beer I had for breakfast wasn-t bad ---

So I had one more for desert


I fumbled in my closet and found my

cleanest dirty shirt


---------------------------------------------
As For Myself I Would say

Probably the best seventies country song

Ever written

I have not met many people who don’t rate Kris Kristoferson Songs



But power to Ray for admitting that, cuz as you say it's a hard song to dislike.

And the value of this exercise is to self-examine "why" we don't like this song that everyone loves. Catharsis and growth can happen from that, like it did with me and "Your Song."

We ALL have a song or two where we are not-in-line with overall critical and public assessments. It feels good to "come out" and share those songs with folks here. Perhaps others help us get a "new look" at that song.

Kris K was a rare breed. Smart enough to write over all our heads, but always chose a conversational tone and identified with everyday people. Most complaints about him are about his vocals, and that's all justified, cuz he wasn't the worlds best singer by a longshot. But I remember, even my mom loved Kris K's work. I think her favorite was a cover of "Help Me Make It Through The Night" which I'm almost positive was KK's writing..

Mike



Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/12/19 01:16 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155186 - 07/12/19 02:32 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
DONT WORRY BE HAPPY

It"s an example that a special voice alongside a popular tempo and a simple

message , can be a hit


It's not shite ---it's something the average weekend dancer can have a bit of fun with

What else could you write to a simple piece of music and a dance tempo that is

popularized by drug heads all over the world; I have no problem with it

I cant see that its worth such venomous comments.


I certainly didnt make venemous comments about Dont worry, if it appeared that way I dont want it to

I feel as a song....it's shite. No melody, trite lyrics, what it IS, is a great performance. I think there's a difference.

When it first came out, i put it right on the same wave length as men without hats safety dance or something similarly goofy.

And im sure some folks got something from it. And Ive heard worse songs, the great performance saves it.

Its just in the annals of the American Songbook, how could you even list it? If studying songwriting, this wouldnt be the song to study. If trying to have a hit it wouldnt help studying it cause there will nothing like it again. Maybe in that respect its uniqueness, i give it some points.

But we cant have a thread "I hate a song that everybody loves" and then complain when somebody says why....

Even the biggests hits of all times have millions of people who hate it, that wont change.

#1155190 - 07/12/19 03:12 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Aw, Humm,
Well an update why I don't particularly like the song. Now picture this, the person is looking in a dirty laundry hamper for his cleanest dirty shirt, now the picture is he is in a drunken stupor, or just sobering up, whatever the case may be, of which conjures up the stink of a dirty laundry hamper, of which says he needs to do his laundry, of which says how hard it is to write a good song, if that is the image Kristofferson trying to present he did it well, I still don't like it. As another Note, a Music Critic in Stereo Review Magazine reviewed a K Album release. He gigged the Album as less than good. The Album may still be for Sale as far as I know. But to each his own.

Now, about Ackey Breaky Heart......


Ray E. Strode
#1155203 - 07/13/19 05:45 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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Tiptoe through the tulips was a song that grated on my nerves.

#1155219 - 07/14/19 04:16 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Cheyenne Offline
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OH Excuse me Chaps I thought I could also comment if I

did not agree with someone who hated a song, and state why I thought

they were wrong ???

What a dull world it would be if we all loved the same things in life

I like cycling around the country side, because the feel of fresh air

on my face invigorates me I often come up with my best songs

whilst loosing a few pounds of unwanted flesh

But thats just me ----- If I am watching a situation Comedy on the T V

and I hear canned laughter badly edited I change to another channel or turn

off the T V, but thats me

Commenting is great and we dont have to agree with each other, so no

problem there; I respect everyone's opinion but excess negativity on here

is beginning to get me down ; I can remember a much older brigade of folk

on here many gone on -- who were less negative ,

Trouble is many on here seem to belive an honest critique of their work that

does not agree with their own mind set , can only be written by a TROLL

Yes I am off the subject of the Original Post , but does that matter ????


One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1155223 - 07/14/19 09:45 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA
Anything by Elvis. I just can't stand his voice and have never been able to take him seriously. He always sounds like an impersonation of himself, and not a particularly good one LOL. Some of that might not be his fault, of course, but there it is. And before all you Elvis fans come down on me like a ton of bricks, remember the title of the thread - I know millions of people all over the world love him.

#1155224 - 07/14/19 11:19 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Vicarn Offline
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Vicarn  Offline
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Elvis Costello?


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1155225 - 07/14/19 12:30 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Tiptoe through the tulips was a song that grated on my nerves.


Haha, you're not alone Everett. Tiny Tim was some kind of cultural phenomenon who Johnny Carson loved and had on his show all the time, updating us on his relationship with "Miss Vicki" as I recall..

Mike


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155226 - 07/14/19 12:35 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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PA
I know “Achy Breaky Heart” was a huge hit and made millions, but I hate it. It’s embarrassingly juvenile to me. Anytime I hear it, I rush to a window in fear of puking.

John smile

#1155227 - 07/14/19 12:36 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
but excess negativity on here

is beginning to get me down ; I can remember a much older brigade of folk

on here many gone on -- who were less negative ,



But unlike most of us you seem drawn to the thing you object to, like the person who phones the cops to tell them there's nekked folks who forgot to draw their blinds in an apartment across the street--you can see them through your binoculars.

So perhaps, may I suggest that if this thread brings you down because of excess negativity that you put away your binoculars and ignore the thread?

Just a thought, since you don't seem to get that this is meant to be a lighthearted thread and we're all, except for you, having fun here, and not trying to be too serious. smile

But I don't think anyone has a problem with you disagreeing and liking any of the songs that are mentioned as hated, either. It is not in any way, shape, or form ANY kind of sacrilege to dislike or like a song, but it can be interesting to uncover reasons why..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/14/19 01:18 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155228 - 07/14/19 12:36 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Vicarn]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Vicarn
Elvis Costello?


LOL, no! The other one, you know...whatisname.

#1155229 - 07/14/19 12:41 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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LOL...Get specific, Gavin..if you name a song and give reasons why you don't like that particular song, I could better respond..


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155230 - 07/14/19 12:47 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I know “Achy Breaky Heart” was a huge hit and made millions, but I hate it. It’s embarrassingly juvenile to me. Anytime I hear it, I rush to a window in fear of puking.

John smile


Too easy..

Looking for songs most folks love..

Everybody hated that song..

So far, IMHO, the best entries have been "Somewhere Over The Rainbow," "Suspicious Minds," and "Sunday Morning Coming Down"--songs you don't expect anyone to hate..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/14/19 01:31 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155232 - 07/14/19 01:15 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
LOL...Get specific, Gavin..if you name a song and give reasons why you don't like that particular song, I could better respond..


Well, like I said, all of them - it's a personal thing. Everyone likes Elvis. Add it to the list of things wrong with me smile

If I had to choose based on the song rather than just the fact that Elvis is singing it, then "Wooden Heart." It's like someone took the melody from an old German folk song and lazily put any old crappy words to it "I'm not made of wood, and I don't have a wooden heart." Then he sings in German, lyrics from the original song which make no sense when combined with the stuff about the wooden heart. Then back to English, and then German words that don't come from the original song, are awkward to sing, and appear to have been written by someone with an hour of Duolingo under their belt. And he does it all with a weird vibrato that doesn't sit well with the melody.

Other than that, it's fine LOL.

#1155233 - 07/14/19 01:24 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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LOL...sounds like a hoot..I don't know the song but will check it out..


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155236 - 07/14/19 10:31 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Songs that sound like they should be in a musical called "Social Workers!" ("The Greatest Love") aren't the only subgenre that make me wince.

There's another subgenre I don't like so much--let's call them "Look-At-Me-I'm-Such-A-Sensitive-Guy" songs.

These include "Feelings" by Morris Albert and the all time champ, "Sometimes When We Touch" by Dan Hill.

The thing is..none of these lines in isolation are a big deal:

And sometimes when we touch
The honesty's too much
And I have to close my eyes
And hide
I want to hold you till I die
Till we both break down and cry
I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides.


It's just one after the other, in rapid fire succession that proves "too much" for me. I have had stuff thrown at me by women for singing the song like Kermit the Frog. In my defense, I had just sung "Rainbow Connection" and forgot to change my voice back.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/14/19 10:38 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155238 - 07/15/19 03:21 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Mar 2010
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Cheyenne Offline
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But unlike most of us you seem drawn to the thing you object to, like the person who phones the cops to tell them there's nekked folks who forgot to draw their blinds in an apartment across the street--you can see them through your binoculars.

So perhaps, may I suggest that if this thread brings you down because of excess negativity that you put away your binoculars and ignore the thread?

Just a thought, since you don't seem to get that this is meant to be a lighthearted thread and we're all, except for you, having fun here, and not trying to be too serious. smile

But I don't think anyone has a problem with you disagreeing and liking any of the songs that are mentioned as hated, either. It is not in any way, shape, or form ANY kind of sacrilege to dislike or like a song, but it can be interesting to uncover reasons why..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike , can you remember how long you have been in Love With Yourself ?????

Oh the thread is okay Mike especially as it was yours , but your presumptions about me are

completely wrong Your need to add a childish remark about a nasty neighbor and binoculars

and your suggestion that I dont seem to get what the discussions is about , is simply your

usual way of trying to impress others that you are such a talented

musician , and lyricist , when in fact your composing is very third rate. but then your

opinions are yours, and I can only put that down to a sheltered existence, ?, but I wont go

any further than that. I will lightly steal away and avoid this type of confrontation , in the

future --

Keep pulling in the pats on the back Mike ,

You definitely need them , and it's quite normal for someone like yourself.


P s we dont need a Four Page Reply in your defense Mike, spend your

spare time analyzing yourself , we dont need an encore of your recent debate

with ferdemento or whatever he calls himself


PSS It can also be constructive, to reply to someone who in our own opinion

is hating a song for opinions that are quite insular to the masses . who buy

song recordings --- after all --- We Are All Wannabe Song Writers!

It pays to know what the public wants, and indeed it's still a light hearted

debate ----

Oh re your critique of Dan Hills Recording I am Sure

Barry Mann liked the lyric to ---Sometimes When We Touch ---

when presented with Dan Hill's Lyrics , and that was the reason he put a

Top Class Melody to it .



Best Wishes Cheyenne






Last edited by Cheyenne; 07/15/19 04:55 AM.

One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1155239 - 07/15/19 07:13 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Offline
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North Alabama
Originally Posted by Cheyenne
OH Excuse me Chaps I thought I could also comment if I

did not agree with someone who hated a song, and state why I thought

they were wrong ???

What a dull world it would be if we all loved the same things in life

I like cycling around the country side, because the feel of fresh air

on my face invigorates me I often come up with my best songs

whilst loosing a few pounds of unwanted flesh

But thats just me ----- If I am watching a situation Comedy on the T V

and I hear canned laughter badly edited I change to another channel or turn

off the T V, but thats me

Commenting is great and we dont have to agree with each other, so no

problem there; I respect everyone's opinion but excess negativity on here

is beginning to get me down ; I can remember a much older brigade of folk

on here many gone on -- who were less negative ,

Trouble is many on here seem to belive an honest critique of their work that

does not agree with their own mind set , can only be written by a TROLL

Yes I am off the subject of the Original Post , but does that matter ????


"TROLL"...... Self edifying, self promoting, self proclaimed industry professional, self credentialed "teacher of the songwriting craft ", and salesman to be specific Cheyenne. Speaking of negativity.....


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155241 - 07/15/19 09:28 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Crozet, VA
Got a PM telling me things were going a bit off the rails here. Folks, please keep it respectful and avoid personal attacks. If you think someone was being offensive to you personally, re-examine the words to make sure -- before you bring out the flame thrower.

By the way, I think achy breaky heart is actually a pretty well done song. I think most people don't like it because they were told it is the worst song in country music's long and winding road.


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1155242 - 07/15/19 10:16 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
OH Excuse me Chaps I thought I could also comment if I

did not agree with someone who hated a song, and state why I thought

they were wrong ???

What a dull world it would be if we all loved the same things in life

I like cycling around the country side, because the feel of fresh air

on my face invigorates me I often come up with my best songs

whilst loosing a few pounds of unwanted flesh

But thats just me ----- If I am watching a situation Comedy on the T V

and I hear canned laughter badly edited I change to another channel or turn

off the T V, but thats me

Commenting is great and we dont have to agree with each other, so no

problem there; I respect everyone's opinion but excess negativity on here

is beginning to get me down ; I can remember a much older brigade of folk

on here many gone on -- who were less negative ,

Trouble is many on here seem to belive an honest critique of their work that

does not agree with their own mind set , can only be written by a TROLL

Yes I am off the subject of the Original Post , but does that matter ????


But Cheyenne, that's the classic " do I look fat in this dress" "well, you kinda do".... WHATTTT? IS THAT what you think?
"Well, maybe you should go find some skinny woman to be with."

This is the problem with critiquing songs. If we cant even say something doesnt sit well with us, for popular songs, where the artist could care a less about us or what we think, how the hell can we give honest critiques here?

The only real difference is when its somebody here, people soft soak it, and wont say what they really think. i guess because its more personal and taken as an attack.

You can defend the song if you feel it's good. But you attacked when u did it.

#1155243 - 07/15/19 10:23 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Songs that sound like they should be in a musical called "Social Workers!" ("The Greatest Love") aren't the only subgenre that make me wince.

There's another subgenre I don't like so much--let's call them "Look-At-Me-I'm-Such-A-Sensitive-Guy" songs.

These include "Feelings" by Morris Albert and the all time champ, "Sometimes When We Touch" by Dan Hill.

The thing is..none of these lines in isolation are a big deal:

And sometimes when we touch
The honesty's too much
And I have to close my eyes
And hide
I want to hold you till I die
Till we both break down and cry
I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides.


It's just one after the other, in rapid fire succession that proves "too much" for me. I have had stuff thrown at me by women for singing the song like Kermit the Frog. In my defense, I had just sung "Rainbow Connection" and forgot to change my voice back.

Mike


I sang and performed "sometimes when we touch" at a company picnic many years ago. It was a VIP woman who loved the song so i did it. There's still a broken up VHS tape of that performance circulating around "somewhere"in the swamps of Jersey"

Even the President of the company enjoyed it, and another guy who wanted to be my agent. I kinda saw how Billy Joel got the line "Man what are you doin here? cause I got that line. "im here cause you guys wont pay me to be an artist", but you will pay me to work in your database!

I think it's a great song, it's hard not to get caught up in it, emotional, lyrics are on point, and its the type of song they use as examples in songwriting articles.

But I will agree that its a bit too much, and pretentious That bridge kills me every time though, i think its the intense melody.



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/19 10:40 AM.
#1155244 - 07/15/19 10:42 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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I hate "Start Me Up" by the Rolling Stones.

Is that okay?

#1155245 - 07/15/19 10:53 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Worse yet, I really like "Don't Worry Be Happy". It doesn't make me mad, and cracks me up a little, the whole idea of saying that phrase, no matter what terrible things happen to you. It's like the inner voice that Job couldn't turn off.

I've met Bobby McFerrin, and I can attest to the fact that he is one very peaceful dude with a good sense of humor. The point of the song is simply to remember to chill out, that your problems don't have to force you into negativity. The irony of the song is how many people turn negative as soon as they hear it, LOL.

#1155246 - 07/15/19 11:06 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Worse yet, I really like "Don't Worry Be Happy". It doesn't make me mad, and cracks me up a little, the whole idea of saying that phrase, no matter what terrible things happen to you. It's like the inner voice that Job couldn't turn off.

I've met Bobby McFerrin, and I can attest to the fact that he is one very peaceful dude with a good sense of humor. The point of the song is simply to remember to chill out, that your problems don't have to force you into negativity. The irony of the song is how many people turn negative as soon as they hear it, LOL.


Yeah it has the effect of making you want to go over to the guy singing it, and belting him in the mouth! LOL

I think Mcferrin is extraordinary. He did that whole track with his vocals, I couldnt do that no matter how hard I tried. Shows how schooled and well versed as a musician he is as well as vocalist. Exceptional performance.

It depends what your looking at when asked. When most people speak of a "song" what they are really talking about is the recording of that song. I heard a really great track on the radio doesnt sound right, i heard a really good song on the radio does, even though its the track they like.

Dont Worry Be Happy, comes from Mehar Baba, the same Indian mystic who inspired The Who's Baba Oreilly.

I dont think ive ever listened to dont worry be happy on my own watch though, only if I heard it on in a car, or MTV, or some lounge singer cover it.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/19 11:07 AM.
#1155248 - 07/15/19 11:14 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Songs that sound like they should be in a musical called "Social Workers!" ("The Greatest Love") aren't the only subgenre that make me wince.

There's another subgenre I don't like so much--let's call them "Look-At-Me-I'm-Such-A-Sensitive-Guy" songs.

These include "Feelings" by Morris Albert and the all time champ, "Sometimes When We Touch" by Dan Hill.

The thing is..none of these lines in isolation are a big deal:

And sometimes when we touch
The honesty's too much
And I have to close my eyes
And hide
I want to hold you till I die
Till we both break down and cry
I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides.


It's just one after the other, in rapid fire succession that proves "too much" for me. I have had stuff thrown at me by women for singing the song like Kermit the Frog. In my defense, I had just sung "Rainbow Connection" and forgot to change my voice back.

Mike


I have to agree. I have always hated this one for the reasons you mention. Also, the intense melody and "sensitive guy" delivery jars with the insincerity of the lyrics. Who has ever touched someone and thought, "You know what? The honesty here is just too much."? Who really wants to hold someone until he dies? Why are they both going to break down and cry? Now he wants to hold her until the fear in him subsides - I thought he wanted to hold her until he dies. None of it rings true.

This is all just my opinion. The fact that I hate it is just that and no more. Obviously, many people loved it. That is the point of this thread.

#1155249 - 07/15/19 11:39 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Dare I say.... "Imagine"

#1155250 - 07/15/19 11:45 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Dare I say.... "Imagine"



You can, but I did ask nicely in the first post to specifically NOT mention that one, cuz it divides folks according to religious lines, and I didn't want that to happen.


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155251 - 07/15/19 11:47 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Dare I say.... "Imagine"



You can, but I did ask nicely in the first post to specifically NOT mention that one, cuz it divides folks according to religious lines, and I didn't want that to happen.



oh. Well if it helps its not because of anything religious that I may or may not like it.

#1155252 - 07/15/19 12:07 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Im Gonna say it.... Unchained Melody.

I know we had a post about it, and I do think of the economy of lyric, and the emotion of the performance.

But the reality for me, is the song makes me depressed. Im not sure why, it just makes me sad when listening.

On top of that, it's boring as all get out. If it wasn't for great vocals in any version the song would die a quick death.

But I may stand in the minority here


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/19 12:08 PM.
#1155253 - 07/15/19 12:21 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
But unlike most of us you seem drawn to the thing you object to, like the person who phones the cops to tell them there's nekked folks who forgot to draw their blinds in an apartment across the street--you can see them through your binoculars.

So perhaps, may I suggest that if this thread brings you down because of excess negativity that you put away your binoculars and ignore the thread?

Just a thought, since you don't seem to get that this is meant to be a lighthearted thread and we're all, except for you, having fun here, and not trying to be too serious. smile

But I don't think anyone has a problem with you disagreeing and liking any of the songs that are mentioned as hated, either. It is not in any way, shape, or form ANY kind of sacrilege to dislike or like a song, but it can be interesting to uncover reasons why..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike , can you remember how long you have been in Love With Yourself ?????

Oh the thread is okay Mike especially as it was yours , but your presumptions about me are

completely wrong Your need to add a childish remark about a nasty neighbor and binoculars

and your suggestion that I dont seem to get what the discussions is about , is simply your

usual way of trying to impress others that you are such a talented

musician , and lyricist , when in fact your composing is very third rate. but then your

opinions are yours, and I can only put that down to a sheltered existence, ?, but I wont go

any further than that. I will lightly steal away and avoid this type of confrontation , in the

future --

Keep pulling in the pats on the back Mike ,

You definitely need them , and it's quite normal for someone like yourself.


P s we dont need a Four Page Reply in your defense Mike, spend your

spare time analyzing yourself , we dont need an encore of your recent debate

with ferdemento or whatever he calls himself


PSS It can also be constructive, to reply to someone who in our own opinion

is hating a song for opinions that are quite insular to the masses . who buy

song recordings --- after all --- We Are All Wannabe Song Writers!

It pays to know what the public wants, and indeed it's still a light hearted

debate ----

Oh re your critique of Dan Hills Recording I am Sure

Barry Mann liked the lyric to ---Sometimes When We Touch ---

when presented with Dan Hill's Lyrics , and that was the reason he put a

Top Class Melody to it .



Best Wishes Cheyenne







W O W.....

Tell me how you really feel. smile

I hope you feel better having gotten that off your chest.

I am sorry you find it hard to laugh along with us.

My suggesting you not read the thread was specifically because you said it was depressing to you, and so it seemed like a logical thought to not read it..and the binoculars comment was simply an illustration of the absurdity of continuing to read a thread that you found depressing. It is something you are "choosing" to do.. No one is forcing you. You have agency. You have free will.

Dave Barry has written humorous books disparaging popular songs he doesn't like. I doubt you would buy those books and read them cover to cover, hating Dave Barry while continuing to read page after page.

The CEO of JPF Brian will be first in line to tell you about songs that makes his skin crawl, like he did recently with Eric Clapton's "Tears In Heaven."

I DEFENDED "Sunday Morning Coming Down" and "Don't Worry Be Happy" --and yet you direct your anger at me, and that's fine, but I can't feel any sadness over it because there are too many good things happening in my life for your misplaced anger to matter, sorry. smile


Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/15/19 01:22 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155254 - 07/15/19 12:23 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Well,
Less see here. I believe Achey Breaky Heart was voted the worst song of all time. And I have heard at least one person bad mouth it. So much for that.

A Classical piece I don't like is MORNING MOOD from Peer Gynt Suite No. 1.


Ray E. Strode
#1155255 - 07/15/19 12:29 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Im Gonna say it.... Unchained Melody.

I know we had a post about it, and I do think of the economy of lyric, and the emotion of the performance.

But the reality for me, is the song makes me depressed. Im not sure why, it just makes me sad when listening.

On top of that, it's boring as all get out. If it wasn't for great vocals in any version the song would die a quick death.

But I may stand in the minority here




I seem to remember a Willie Nelson version I enjoyed of this song. Otherwise, I hear ya. Like "Suspicious Minds" --it seems to rely on drama to make it work, with way, over-the-top vocal performances from most of the folks that attempt the song. Willie did it laid back as ever..

Mike


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155256 - 07/15/19 12:42 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I hate "Start Me Up" by the Rolling Stones.

Is that okay?


I had a friend in Nashville in the Nineties, Kevin Bussey, we both were working at Tower Records at the time, and this song was his cue to jump up on a backroom table and do his "Mick" impersonation which was spot on. All primping and arched back and hilarious..

Miss you Kevin!!

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/15/19 12:42 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155257 - 07/15/19 12:50 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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One thing I like about Achy Breaky Heart is the authoritative phrasing of the melody. Every line is the chorus is sung like a command.


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155260 - 07/15/19 03:24 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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I'm sitting here trying to understand why I don't like "Start Me Up" but I really like "She's So Cold". There really isn't a lot of difference between these songs...probably even in the same key. I'll turn down "Start Me Up" and crank up "She's So Cold" every time.

I'll let you know what the shrink says.

#1155261 - 07/15/19 03:36 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I'm sitting here trying to understand why I don't like "Start Me Up" but I really like "She's So Cold". There really isn't a lot of difference between these songs...probably even in the same key. I'll turn down "Start Me Up" and crank up "She's So Cold" every time.

I'll let you know what the shrink says.


LOL..

Maybe you don't like the Energizer Bunny? And yes, just as real as the Easter Bunny, I'm telling you..

That commercial would come on, and my mom, God rest her soul--she was well into her Eighties at this point, would always shout at the TV, "I don't like that bunny!"

Mick is kinda comparing himself to one in "Start Me Up" so.. whistle

Whereas "She's So Cold" seems more like an anthem for the modern caveman--reducing romance to its binary components.

I like the latter more, too.. smile With me it's Charlie's breaking it down more (into 16ths and such) in the latter and the beat feels propulsive, while holding back in the former..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/15/19 06:35 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155264 - 07/15/19 08:20 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Here’s another one I don’t care for: “Twist and Shout”.

I mean...not much substance there. Sure, it’s lighthearted fun but no thank you. Can I get thru a wedding without hearing this song? And then have to dance to it too? It’s too slow to dance to IMHO. So the energy behind the lyric doesn’t truly fly for me. It’s celebratory, so it should be faster in my mind. Call me a party pooper....I guess I am! grin

But delving into the psyche as this is...lol...maybe I just don’t like doing the twist! That’s very possible! Ha. But no...Chubby Checker’s “The Twist” lyric is charming & fun with all the “twist” rhymes and the song is faster. And “Pulp Fiction’s twist contest is dynamite! I don’t remember what song they were dancing to, but John Travolta...Uma Thurman...very cool!


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
#1155265 - 07/15/19 09:26 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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"I don’t remember what song they were dancing to, but John Travolta...Uma Thurman...very cool!"

I'll second that! smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155276 - 07/16/19 07:21 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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I guess it is just a case of "one man's meat is another man's poison". We all have different taste which is good, makes for an interesting world. I didn't hate or love Achy Breaky but it inspired me to write Oh my aching heart which went no where. LOL I've yet to hear a rap song that I like but many do like rap, to each his own. Many don't like anything Gospel, maybe it is the message. I've heard some Gospel songs that appear to have been written by someone just learning to write, but they are sung by many that appear to love them.

#1155278 - 07/16/19 09:11 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I'm sitting here trying to understand why I don't like "Start Me Up" but I really like "She's So Cold". There really isn't a lot of difference between these songs...probably even in the same key. I'll turn down "Start Me Up" and crank up "She's So Cold" every time.

I'll let you know what the shrink says.


She's So Cold is my favorite Stones track. I see/hear art when I hear shes so cold. I didnt always, I just thought it was a cool song. But it may be entirely me, but the little guitar parts, to me sound like somebody is playing inside a refrigerator, or on some icy terrain. Im not sure how they accomplished that, but those little licks sound like icicles dripping off, and that metallic edge you might expect from a cold environment. And the shuffling drum beat sounds like plodding on ice. Again, it may be totally me hearing things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo34VhfcetU

Start me up may be a case of overkill. It got to a point where you couldnt watch a football game without start me up playing right before kickoff. it might have gotten too much exposure, and "you make a dead man come" is a pretty lame line, but i guess works for rock n roll.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/16/19 09:12 AM.
#1155281 - 07/16/19 10:14 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
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Originally Posted by Kristi McKeever
Here’s another one I don’t care for: “Twist and Shout”.

I mean...not much substance there. Sure, it’s lighthearted fun but no thank you. Can I get thru a wedding without hearing this song? And then have to dance to it too? It’s too slow to dance to IMHO. So the energy behind the lyric doesn’t truly fly for me. It’s celebratory, so it should be faster in my mind. Call me a party pooper....I guess I am! grin

But delving into the psyche as this is...lol...maybe I just don’t like doing the twist! That’s very possible! Ha. But no...Chubby Checker’s “The Twist” lyric is charming & fun with all the “twist” rhymes and the song is faster. And “Pulp Fiction’s twist contest is dynamite! I don’t remember what song they were dancing to, but John Travolta...Uma Thurman...very cool!


I just remember how the song was a song John Lennon recorded with The Beatles, was it when he had a cold? I remember it was a bit out of his range, and hence the shreddy sound of his voice, He then taught Nilsson how to sing like that a decade later for the record he produced for Nilsson "Pussycats" and then Nilsson thereby blew out his pipes and never made another good record.

The Isley Brothers version is great...probably like it more..

I have a sneaky suspicion Chubby Checker and Kermit the Frog are the same person. wink

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/16/19 10:15 AM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155282 - 07/16/19 10:17 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I guess it is just a case of "one man's meat is another man's poison". We all have different taste which is good, makes for an interesting world. I didn't hate or love Achy Breaky but it inspired me to write Oh my aching heart which went no where. LOL I've yet to hear a rap song that I like but many do like rap, to each his own. Many don't like anything Gospel, maybe it is the message. I've heard some Gospel songs that appear to have been written by someone just learning to write, but they are sung by many that appear to love them.


Exactly. Variety is the spice of life..


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155283 - 07/16/19 10:40 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? And saying these things to a "virgin child" ..? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTAS when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/17/19 12:20 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155297 - 07/16/19 05:05 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


She's So Cold is my favorite Stones track. I see/hear art when I hear shes so cold. I didnt always, I just thought it was a cool song. But it may be entirely me, but the little guitar parts, to me sound like somebody is playing inside a refrigerator, or on some icy terrain. Im not sure how they accomplished that, but those little licks sound like icicles dripping off, and that metallic edge you might expect from a cold environment. And the shuffling drum beat sounds like plodding on ice. Again, it may be totally me hearing things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo34VhfcetU

Start me up may be a case of overkill. It got to a point where you couldnt watch a football game without start me up playing right before kickoff. it might have gotten too much exposure, and "you make a dead man come" is a pretty lame line, but i guess works for rock n roll.



"I'm a bleedin' volcano" is no better!

Yeah I guess it's all about the spare, staccato bluesy approach of the band that makes "She's So Cold" work for me when "Start Me Up" leaves me cold and unstarted. Jagger delivers both songs in the exact same bombastic Jaggery mode—both videos show him mugging for the camera in the exact same weird mood, staring at the camera widening his eyes a lot, just because widening his eyes looks interesting, but it's really not particularly meaningful, just making the same faces and poses and delivering the vocal that needs delivering in the old familiar way. I don't get it, but I'm going to go listen to "She's So Cold" again. But not "Start Me Up". That one's gross.

#1155298 - 07/16/19 05:17 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTASDI when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike


I could NEVER deal with "I Am I Said", even though the idea of an existentialist song greatly appeals to me, and it's all because of the word "even".

It's bad enough that the chair was anthropomorphized for no apparent reason and without PeeWee's Playhouse to show for it. What makes it unacceptable to me is the idea that it also seems to be the worst listener of ALL the household furnishings—I mean, it's bad enough that the lamp and the sofa didn't hear his blubbering incomplete sentence, but even that nosy, busy-body CHAIR missed it, which is just embarrassing....I GUESS. According to Neil anyway. Too much of that scotch on the rocks if you ask me.

#1155301 - 07/16/19 10:20 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTASDI when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike


I could NEVER deal with "I Am I Said", even though the idea of an existentialist song greatly appeals to me, and it's all because of the word "even".

It's bad enough that the chair was anthropomorphized for no apparent reason and without PeeWee's Playhouse to show for it. What makes it unacceptable to me is the idea that it also seems to be the worst listener of ALL the household furnishings—I mean, it's bad enough that the lamp and the sofa didn't hear his blubbering incomplete sentence, but even that nosy, busy-body CHAIR missed it, which is just embarrassing....I GUESS. According to Neil anyway. Too much of that scotch on the rocks if you ask me.


LOL..How very true! How else to "read" what Neil was thinking? To be the best listener in Neil's room's gotta be a lotta pressure for the poor chair, too. And how exactly does the chair go about acknowledging Neil when it does hear him? Does it cross it's legs? Wobble a bit?

And yes, to say "even" complicates things. It's almost as if someone put it to Neil:

Barbs: Hey Neil, wassup, I got Kris over here singing some dumb song about pullin' dirty clothes out of his hamper..

Neil: Barbs, I'm goin' nuts over here, I'm real, aren't I? I mean, is anything real? But if nothing's real, I can't be rrrr

Barbs: Whoa whoa Neil, what's going on? Have you been hittin' the peace pipe and getting all Camus with the sofa and chest-of-drawers, screaming that you exist, again? I mean they ARE pretty good listeners so what's the problem?

Neil: I did, I was, I am, I said, and now, they're all ignoring me..

Barbs: Even the chair?!?

Neil: Even the chair.. (*crying sounds over the phone*)

Barbs: There there Neil, it'll be alright. Maybe it's having an off day. Have you tried the coat rack?

********************************************************************************

Anyway, thanks Mark for making me laugh!!


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/17/19 12:40 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155344 - 07/17/19 02:42 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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BWAHAHAHA!!

#1155359 - 07/17/19 09:15 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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I think you have this all wrong. He is not addressing a piece of furniture, but the chair of an unspecified committee of which he is a junior member that nobody pays attention to, not even the chair, especially not the chair.

#1155363 - 07/17/19 09:58 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
I think you have this all wrong. He is not addressing a piece of furniture, but the chair of an unspecified committee of which he is a junior member that nobody pays attention to, not even the chair, especially not the chair.


LOLOLOL....

nice... smile

Maybe a junior chair of Existentialists Anonymous?

or of The International Society of Verb Conjugaters?



Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/17/19 10:14 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155376 - 07/18/19 10:15 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? And saying these things to a "virgin child" ..? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTAS when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike


Im a big fan of Rod Stewart from Faces right through the 70's. Young Turks was one of my favorite MTV songs in the 80's, just terrific. I think in Tonights The Night, he's singing from the perspective of a young guy.....tWO young people. "stay away from my window, stay away from my back door too" Going by somebodys window is a classic teenage tale

First he's warning her not to come over, then he's telling her how its gonna be... lol

But as i said before, singers play the character.

in retrospect, it could be that the girl was being agrresive towards him at first, but hes afraid cause shes too young?

Many ways to look at it, thats songwriting!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/18/19 10:38 AM.
#1155377 - 07/18/19 10:24 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Well,
Lessee see here. A smattering of Pop Songs that I particularly like.
WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers.
THE POOR PEOPLE OF PARIS. Les Baxter
THE WAYWARD WIND. Gogi Grant.
SAIL ALONG SILVERY MOON. Billy Vaughn.
A WALK IN THE BLACK FORREST. Horst Jankowski.
I DIDN'T KNOW THE GUN WAS LOADED, The Andrews Sisters.
and SMOKE ALONG THE TRACK. A country song by Stonewall Jackson.


Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 07/18/19 11:58 AM.

Ray E. Strode
#1155378 - 07/18/19 10:29 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
Lessee see here. A smattering of Pop Songs that I particularly like.
WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers.
THE POOR PEOPLE OF PARIS. Les Baxter
THE WAYWARD WIND. Gogi Grant.
SAIL ALONG SILVERY MOON. Billy Vaughn.
A WALK IN THE BLACK FORREST. Horst Jankowski.
I DIDN'T KNOW THE GUN WAS LOADED, The Fontaine Sisters, I think
and SMOKE ALONG THE TRACK. A country song by Stonewall Jackson.



Im gonna start a thread soon, but i didnt want this thread to die too soon. My threads gonna be instead "songs i like, that people wouldnt think I would"

#1155380 - 07/18/19 10:53 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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I never really looked at the Neil Diamond lyrics before.

Sounds like hes building on the idea of "if a tree falls in a forest, and nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound"

In his case the chair is the tree, and it didnt make a sound.

Cornballish i guess. But I like Neil Diamond

#1155381 - 07/18/19 10:58 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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How bout MOST Journey songs.

Open Arms, Faithfully, Lights, Sender her my Love

They just go all out to make women cry. Steve Perry is a great vocalist, but he's just too overbearing for me to listen to

I will say I like dont Stop Believin, Stone in Love and Anyway you want it. Wheel in the sky pretty good too.

Just the love ballads make me want to break something.

#1155390 - 07/18/19 01:47 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


But as i said before, singers play the character.





I think this is definitely a debatable topic because I question that it holds true for the average person in all cases. But giving that debate it's due is honestly beyond my scope right now.

That topic being "hearing the singer as playing a character or as himself."

There's an unwritten "code" I'm sure, such as the singer's personal history (are his/her songs usually pulled from his/her/life, the plausibility of the scenario, etc.)

But even then, I can imagine there are singers and older singers in particular who wouldn't "choose" to sing the song cuz they object to the lyric's content.

And I don't think it's an unnatural reaction to hear an older man singing "Tonight's The Night" and get a little creeped-out by it, even though, as you say, we're "supposed" to remember that "the singer is playing a character" --but why must we, isn't that up to the listener? Certainly you don't think the average listener should have a set of instructions to go with any given song.

The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

And ultimately for me, even IF I keep it in my head Rod is playing a character, I am STILL creeped-out by the song.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 02:54 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155391 - 07/18/19 02:36 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski


The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

Mike

I always took that line as being comically ironic. The character singing it is barely older and certainly not wiser. His juvenile pomposity is being mocked by the words coming out of his own mouth. For that reason, I don't find it creepy so much as deliberately ridiculous. Of course, he's also a Nazi, but that's a whole other thing!

#1155392 - 07/18/19 02:46 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski


The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

Mike

I always took that line as being comically ironic. The character singing it is barely older and certainly not wiser. His juvenile pomposity is being mocked by the words coming out of his own mouth. For that reason, I don't find it creepy so much as deliberately ridiculous. Of course, he's also a Nazi, but that's a whole other thing!


Your right. I was groping for a comparison and mine was a poor one..I'll strike through that text but leave it...just want to signify I changed my mind about that part..I hear the irony in that now that you mention it.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 02:57 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155393 - 07/18/19 03:12 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
How bout MOST Journey songs.

Open Arms, Faithfully, Lights, Sender her my Love

They just go all out to make women cry. Steve Perry is a great vocalist, but he's just too overbearing for me to listen to

I will say I like dont Stop Believin, Stone in Love and Anyway you want it. Wheel in the sky pretty good too.

Just the love ballads make me want to break something.


Haha, find an old saucer you don't need..

I was a fan back in the day..

I'd put "Don't Stop Believin'" in the time capsule along with BOC's "Don't Fear the Reaper" from the same time period which both inexplicably make me more emotional now than they did, back when..I'll talk about the latter when you start your thread..

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 03:24 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155394 - 07/18/19 04:44 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


But as i said before, singers play the character.





I think this is definitely a debatable topic because I question that it holds true for the average person in all cases. But giving that debate it's due is honestly beyond my scope right now.

That topic being "hearing the singer as playing a character or as himself."

There's an unwritten "code" I'm sure, such as the singer's personal history (are his/her songs usually pulled from his/her/life, the plausibility of the scenario, etc.)

But even then, I can imagine there are singers and older singers in particular who wouldn't "choose" to sing the song cuz they object to the lyric's content.

And I don't think it's an unnatural reaction to hear an older man singing "Tonight's The Night" and get a little creeped-out by it, even though, as you say, we're "supposed" to remember that "the singer is playing a character" --but why must we, isn't that up to the listener? Certainly you don't think the average listener should have a set of instructions to go with any given song.

The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

And ultimately for me, even IF I keep it in my head Rod is playing a character, I am STILL creeped-out by the song.

Mike


its certainly open for debate. and im not saying your wrong either. it would be totally creepy if a man in his mid to late 20's was singing this to a teenage girl. But its not clear what the case is.

SIngers use first person "I" alot. seems to be the most powerful tense.

When Bruce sang "Hey little girl is your daddy home, did he go and leave you all alone, I got a bad desire" he was a 35 year old man singing that. Was it Bruce, bruce protraying the feelings of a pedofile his age, or was it a kid the same age as the girl?

When he sang about a construction worker who marries a teen girl, and takes her across state lines. was that HIM? was it him from persective of somebody else.

He certainly wasnt the serial killer he sang "I" in in Nebraska

Was Alice cooper in school when he released "Schools out? LOL

Was David Lee Roth in grammar school when he wrote and sang Hot for Teacher?

There are alot of songs about school and school love, the 50's were full of teen love songs that were song by older men.

Its a good topic to start just from a writing POV, the word "I" has ramifications.

#1155395 - 07/18/19 05:32 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


But as i said before, singers play the character.





I think this is definitely a debatable topic because I question that it holds true for the average person in all cases. But giving that debate it's due is honestly beyond my scope right now.

That topic being "hearing the singer as playing a character or as himself."

There's an unwritten "code" I'm sure, such as the singer's personal history (are his/her songs usually pulled from his/her/life, the plausibility of the scenario, etc.)

But even then, I can imagine there are singers and older singers in particular who wouldn't "choose" to sing the song cuz they object to the lyric's content.

And I don't think it's an unnatural reaction to hear an older man singing "Tonight's The Night" and get a little creeped-out by it, even though, as you say, we're "supposed" to remember that "the singer is playing a character" --but why must we, isn't that up to the listener? Certainly you don't think the average listener should have a set of instructions to go with any given song.

The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

And ultimately for me, even IF I keep it in my head Rod is playing a character, I am STILL creeped-out by the song.

Mike


its certainly open for debate. and im not saying your wrong either. it would be totally creepy if a man in his mid to late 20's was singing this to a teenage girl. But its not clear what the case is.

SIngers use first person "I" alot. seems to be the most powerful tense.

When Bruce sang "Hey little girl is your daddy home, did he go and leave you all alone, I got a bad desire" he was a 35 year old man singing that. Was it Bruce, bruce protraying the feelings of a pedofile his age, or was it a kid the same age as the girl?

When he sang about a construction worker who marries a teen girl, and takes her across state lines. was that HIM? was it him from persective of somebody else.

He certainly wasnt the serial killer he sang "I" in in Nebraska

Was Alice cooper in school when he released "Schools out? LOL

Was David Lee Roth in grammar school when he wrote and sang Hot for Teacher?

There are alot of songs about school and school love, the 50's were full of teen love songs that were song by older men.

Its a good topic to start just from a writing POV, the word "I" has ramifications.



"little red riding hood," "little girl," "baby," etc..all fine, with me, in the contexts they get used, 99% of the time.


"Virgin child" to me, though, is a little much. Too explicit. The word "virgin" is used because "tonight's the night" and it's too much for me. That combined with asking her to let her "inhibitions run wild" --yuck..

As I said, even if I imagine Rod playing a character..still creeped-out..and the music is pretty lame to me as well..

Whereas arguably darker things are going on in "Don't Fear the Reaper" and it's one of my favorite songs of all-time..go figure!!

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 05:51 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155397 - 07/18/19 06:53 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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There's probably at least three ways a (first person) song and singer can be heard:

1) singing as himself or herself

2) singing as "someone else" or as a specific or generalized "character"

3) singing as an "audience surrogate"

I think in "Tonight's The Night" Stewart is singing as a surrogate for a teen to "imagine himself as" --and not, as you say, as a "character" per se.

My not being the target audience is one really good reason I don't connect with the song.

Another is that the word "inhibitions" sabotages Rod's best intentions in the lyric. As do some other things I pointed out that I doubt a boy of similar age to the girl would think, let alone say. If this is meant a be a grown woman, "virgin child" certainly misrepresents that. That's extremely specific. Whereas "little girl" and especially "baby," through common usage in popular songs have taken on a much broader meaning.


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/19/19 03:07 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155400 - 07/18/19 11:03 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
There's probably at least three ways a (first person singular) song and singer can be heard:

1) singing as himself or herself

2) singing as a specific "someone else" or as a specific "character"

3) singing as an "audience surrogate"


I think so too. And fdemetrio's statement that "I" seems to be a powerful tense to use in writing lyrics. Most of my lyrics are written in 1st person, but I would have traveled the world if they were all my experience!! As a listener, I probably assume a singer is singing something they "believe in" but not necessarily their own experience.

But I would be wrong in the case of Tina Turner and I’m sure many other singers. I believe it’s true that she hated “What’s Love Got to Do With It” but you’d never know that watching her perform it. wink


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
#1155403 - 07/19/19 05:37 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Kristi McKeever
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
There's probably at least three ways a (first person singular) song and singer can be heard:

1) singing as himself or herself

2) singing as a specific "someone else" or as a specific "character"

3) singing as an "audience surrogate"


I think so too. And fdemetrio's statement that "I" seems to be a powerful tense to use in writing lyrics. Most of my lyrics are written in 1st person, but I would have traveled the world if they were all my experience!! As a listener, I probably assume a singer is singing something they "believe in" but not necessarily their own experience.

But I would be wrong in the case of Tina Turner and I’m sure many other singers. I believe it’s true that she hated “What’s Love Got to Do With It” but you’d never know that watching her perform it. wink


Hi Kristi,

Nice take! I didn't know about Turner's dislike for that song (which I love)..

I got so caught up in the mechanics of "how many ways are there to hear a first person singular song and singer" that I forgot why I brought it up in the first place, which is that it's easy to get it wrong.

In fact, I think it's fair to say that to the degree that a listener understands an artist is to that degree he/she will get it right.

I mean, if you know a particular folk singer is usually talking about his/her real experience, there's no reason to think otherwise when they perform something new. In fact, such singer-songwriters reserve obviously very tall stories to be their particular works of fiction, just so not to confuse their audience. "Authenticity" seems more important to some brands of music sung in the first person than others.

And this is now getting into thesis territory with those three ways a singer can be heard:

In any given song, the singer can represent all three kinds of first person singular simultaneously
. Imagine a DOT inside an equilateral triangle.

This is why, as you say, "a singer is singing something they "believe in" but not necessarily their own experience." Most first person songs have some things culled from real life, some from fiction, and some things that give voice to what a listener is feeling and might say--an audience surrogate..All three will be present in various amounts in most popular music lyrics.

A friend of mine saw an audience en masse get it wrong--he saw Randy Newman in Nashville in the Eighties at a smallish venue, and he performed his song "Rednecks" in which he is singing as a specific character, a bigot, singing the lines,

We're rednecks, we're rednecks
We don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
We're rednecks, we're rednecks
We're keeping the ni**ers down

My friend recounts how the audience sang along to this part..very enthusiastically.. and that always disturbed my friend and myself cuz if there's one Randy Newman song where you want to quietly listen and watch Newman wearing a mask and not be "identifying" with him, it's "Rednecks" --and okay, maybe "Short People" lol..

And Scott* (my friend) also made sure I understood it did not appear that this small beer drinking crowd of folks were "singing ironically" along with him

So in hindsight it seems like Mr. Newman was taken by the audience as a surrogate, at least by most, others just getting caught up in the moment, but most were seemingly channeling their bigotry through his singing, fleshy avatar. Very disturbing.

Randy Newman songs generally got visceral reactions from folks. I'm surprised no one's mentioned "Short People" --but surprised in a good way, cuz I like Newman. He's a really socially conscious dude who never soap boxes, but in many songs, becomes flawed characters for us to take in.

Mike


* Scott Phelps was the Assistant Manager and friend at Tower in Nashville whom I worked with from 1993-1996. A songwriter with a little chart success. MAB and he may have even crossed paths in song circles.


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/20/19 01:51 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155410 - 07/19/19 10:13 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well, Lessee here. George Morgan had a huge hit CANDY KISSES. He said if you have a huge hit, you better like it because you are going to be singing it the rest of your life. Yes, I suppose some Artists had big hits they hated.


Ray E. Strode
#1155421 - 07/19/19 02:32 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Yeah, I dont think Johnny Cash "shot a man in Reno Just to watch him die"

I think Rod is using inhibitions wrong, but its still understood that he means dont be inhibited...lol

I think Rod has one of the best voices in all of rock music.

Back to the topic, I think when its a sensitive issue using I can get hairy, but alot of the REAL writers use it.

I think it humanizes the person in the song, even if they are a piece of chit.

Bruce's Nebraska was an entire album really of fooked up people who he was giving voice to. I think what he was trying to say was that when the country doesnt take care of its people they end up on the fringe, and do things like many of the characters in Nebraska did. So if you sing "I" yeah somebody might think you are saying YOU are the chainsaw murderer, but it's understood by most he's simply humanizing some people who dont deserve to be humanized.

I Know sting was a teacher once, and im not sure if HE was the one telling the school girl to "dont stand so close to me" but maybe he used his own experience to create the character.

I think most songs, at least my own come from many of my own experiences and others, and i sing "I" because i indentify with those other views. So in some sense its a co-write....lol

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/19/19 02:39 PM.
#1155424 - 07/19/19 03:11 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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"I think when its a sensitive issue using "I" can get hairy"

I wholeheartedly agree. smile

"Nebraska" is my second favorite Bruce album. ("Born To Run") my all time favorite..

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/19/19 03:11 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155425 - 07/19/19 03:15 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
"I think when its a sensitive issue using "I" can get hairy"

I wholeheartedly agree. smile

"Nebraska" is my second favorite Bruce album. ("Born To Run") my all time favorite..


Yeah even the crumudgeon Randy Newman called it NEAR perfect, he wouldnt go all the way and call it perfect though....

I read where he also commented on Pete Townshend as a writer. Citing My Generation, the character in the song is a MOD, a social group, and they usually do Speed and they cant talk right. Hence thats why daltry stutters throughout.

And Newman said, the guy is trying to be a voice for his generation and he cant even speak!....and said "great writing"

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/19/19 03:16 PM.
#1155441 - 07/20/19 09:21 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Kristi McKeever Offline
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Kristi McKeever  Offline
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USA
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
So in hindsight it seems like Mr. Newman was taken by the audience as a surrogate, at least by most, others just getting caught up in the moment, but most were seemingly channeling their bigotry through his singing, fleshy avatar. Very disturbing.

Randy Newman songs generally got visceral reactions from folks. I'm surprised no one's mentioned "Short People" --but surprised in a good way, cuz I like Newman. He's a really socially conscious dude who never soap boxes, but in many songs, becomes flawed characters for us to take in.

Mike


Mike,

Funny....“Short People” did come to my mind, but it’s an all-in-good-fun kind of song to watch him perform, imo. Amazing about that “Rednecks” performance. So then there’s “We Are the Champions”....kind of the flip side to that!

Using “I” can be tricky as has already been mentioned. I interpret Sting’s “Every Breath You Take” as an aggressive, threatening song....who would want to sing that, ya know? But that's just me. smile

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard: don’t write a song that makes the singer look bad. What is "bad"? Fine line, sometimes. Fine line...


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
#1155452 - 07/20/19 02:08 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Jul 2006
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by Kristi McKeever
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
So in hindsight it seems like Mr. Newman was taken by the audience as a surrogate, at least by most, others just getting caught up in the moment, but most were seemingly channeling their bigotry through his singing, fleshy avatar. Very disturbing.

Randy Newman songs generally got visceral reactions from folks. I'm surprised no one's mentioned "Short People" --but surprised in a good way, cuz I like Newman. He's a really socially conscious dude who never soap boxes, but in many songs, becomes flawed characters for us to take in.

Mike


Mike,

Funny....“Short People” did come to my mind, but it’s an all-in-good-fun kind of song to watch him perform, imo. Amazing about that “Rednecks” performance. So then there’s “We Are the Champions”....kind of the flip side to that!

Using “I” can be tricky as has already been mentioned. I interpret Sting’s “Every Breath You Take” as an aggressive, threatening song....who would want to sing that, ya know? But that's just me. smile

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard: don’t write a song that makes the singer look bad. What is "bad"? Fine line, sometimes. Fine line...



I am discovering I'm fascinated by this mercurial triangulation of the "first person" in popular songs. In any given song, from line to line, just exactly who the " I " represents isn't necessarily static but may be changing between the three ways of taking in the singer (singing a song in the first person).

So much work is going on under the surface while listening,--just utterly fascinating stuff that one could devote a lifetime of study. But it's something we just naturally do, as listeners, we sort all that out, sometimes getting it wrong (but it's amazing we get it right as much as we do, given the complexity of what's going on) and this probably plays a BIG part in if and how we enjoy or dislike a particular song.

I mean, I might be enjoying a song where the singer is playing a character, but if a question comes up for me in the listening, if that character becomes my surrogate and answers that question, I imagine I'm more likely to enjoy the song. Same thing if it's truthful stuff mixed in with more fanciful. If "Fire and Rain" was totally made up stuff, it would devalue the song for me. I always imagine that for James Taylor to talk like that, he experienced something bad happen to a friend, possibly their death, though I never took every line to be verbatim his life story..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/20/19 02:18 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155453 - 07/20/19 03:09 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Kristi McKeever
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
So in hindsight it seems like Mr. Newman was taken by the audience as a surrogate, at least by most, others just getting caught up in the moment, but most were seemingly channeling their bigotry through his singing, fleshy avatar. Very disturbing.

Randy Newman songs generally got visceral reactions from folks. I'm surprised no one's mentioned "Short People" --but surprised in a good way, cuz I like Newman. He's a really socially conscious dude who never soap boxes, but in many songs, becomes flawed characters for us to take in.

Mike


Mike,

Funny....“Short People” did come to my mind, but it’s an all-in-good-fun kind of song to watch him perform, imo. Amazing about that “Rednecks” performance. So then there’s “We Are the Champions”....kind of the flip side to that!

Using “I” can be tricky as has already been mentioned. I interpret Sting’s “Every Breath You Take” as an aggressive, threatening song....who would want to sing that, ya know? But that's just me. smile

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard: don’t write a song that makes the singer look bad. What is "bad"? Fine line, sometimes. Fine line...



I am discovering I'm fascinated by this mercurial triangulation of the "first person" in popular songs. In any given song, from line to line, just exactly who the " I " represents isn't necessarily static but may be changing between the three ways of taking in the singer (singing a song in the first person).

So much work is going on under the surface while listening,--just utterly fascinating stuff that one could devote a lifetime of study. But it's something we just naturally do, as listeners, we sort all that out, sometimes getting it wrong (but it's amazing we get it right as much as we do, given the complexity of what's going on) and this probably plays a BIG part in if and how we enjoy or dislike a particular song.

I mean, I might be enjoying a song where the singer is playing a character, but if a question comes up for me in the listening, if that character becomes my surrogate and answers that question, I imagine I'm more likely to enjoy the song. Same thing if it's truthful stuff mixed in with more fanciful. If "Fire and Rain" was totally made up stuff, it would devalue the song for me. I always imagine that for James Taylor to talk like that, he experienced something bad happen to a friend, possibly their death, though I never took every line to be verbatim his life story..

Mike


It is fascinating and I think there's an art to using the tenses right. BTW, JT wrote fire and rain while institutionalized in a mental hospital, or at least part of it there.

How bout the eavsedropping style of say Mark Knopfler in "Money for Nothin"
He said he overheard some guys who were working in an appliance store, and how they were complaining about having to do all that work, while the "Chimpanzees, banging on them bongos, get their money for nothing...and chicks for free" they were watching MTV on the tvs while they worked

And the ironic part is Knopfler is playing the role of those appliance workers, but HE himself is the very thing they were complaining about. He said he hid in the corner cause he didnt want them to stop their rant.

To me songwriting brings people alive. Various ways to do it, we can learn those tools too.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/20/19 03:26 PM.
#1155944 - 08/19/19 08:21 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: JAPOV]  
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Cheyenne Offline
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Cheyenne  Offline
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Florida U.S.A.

"TROLL"...... Self edifying, self promoting, self proclaimed industry professional, self credentialed "teacher of the songwriting craft ", and salesman to be specific Cheyenne. Speaking of negativity.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re your comment -above ------J A P O V , You are typical of wannabe music writers who
shout TROLL , because someone disagrees with your opinions

You have been on here for five minutes following the demise of both Songwriter 101 and
Songwriter Junction; and already you are rubbing many long term members up the wrong way

Some of us have had a fair few many years working both as touring Musicians and Management
and we are sorry if that gets up your nose so speak

All you have to do is mark me down as ( ignore this member) precisely what I shall do to yourself

YOUR COMMENTS about myself are complete nonsense.

J A P O V S would be more appropriate ( Just Another Piece Of Venomous Scum)


One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1155953 - 08/19/19 04:43 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by Cheyenne

"TROLL"...... Self edifying, self promoting, self proclaimed industry professional, self credentialed "teacher of the songwriting craft ", and salesman to be specific Cheyenne. Speaking of negativity.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re your comment -above ------J A P O V , You are typical of wannabe music writers who
shout TROLL , because someone disagrees with your opinions

You have been on here for five minutes following the demise of both Songwriter 101 and
Songwriter Junction; and already you are rubbing many long term members up the wrong way

Some of us have had a fair few many years working both as touring Musicians and Management
and we are sorry if that gets up your nose so speak

All you have to do is mark me down as ( ignore this member) precisely what I shall do to yourself

YOUR COMMENTS about myself are complete nonsense.

J A P O V S would be more appropriate ( Just Another Piece Of Venomous Scum)


Cheyenne, ive had some decent conversations with you, and other times you pull a 360 and blast away.

In all seriousness, you may be a very good songwriter, and have a wealth of information about songwriting. But I havent seen or heard one piece of work from you. You've attacked a few people in this thread and cut down their abilities.

Not sure what causes your highs and lows.

#1155956 - 08/20/19 03:26 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 175
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Posts: 175
North Alabama
"Just Another Piece Of Venomous Scum"............ Lol, Cheyenne, that’s only funny because I know that you know the troll that I’m refusing to name. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and entitled to their own tastes... In fact, anyone who knows me well knows that I appreciate and encourage the exercise of individuality. However, there’s a huge difference between having an opinion... and purposefully writing page after page of long winded arguments about how screwed up the music industry is and what everyone else is doing wrong in order to promote himself as some sort of "authority in the business of songwriting". The truth is, if he was even half of what he promotes himself to be, everyone would already know him and he wouldn’t be wasting his time here on songwriter blogs with the rest of us.... Take a breath Cheyenne, you and I both are already just a couple of "opinions in cyberspace" lol..... smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155977 - 08/20/19 05:41 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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It's funny how these conversations tend to come full circle and have cross links...

Like my Somewhere over the rainbow comment.

I came across Clapton doin a blues version of it and really dug it, and its funny cause Clapton has been mentioned in some of our threads too lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwlFTYT2Fdw

BTW hard to find a better band than that, Steve Gadd on drums and David Sancious(Of E Street fame) on Organ, Billy Preston the fifth Beatle!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/20/19 05:47 PM.
#1155978 - 08/20/19 05:59 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Posts: 175
North Alabama
Oh yea! Gotta' love Clapton! smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155979 - 08/20/19 06:09 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 175
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2019
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North Alabama
Shania Twain's "Man, I feel like a woman"..........
Firstly, that’s not country!
Secondly...and most importantly... I can’t sing along with that song and not feel like a woman! smile

Last edited by JAPOV; 08/20/19 06:09 PM.

JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155989 - 08/21/19 07:07 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: JAPOV]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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,NL Canada
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Shania Twain's "Man, I feel like a woman"..........
Firstly, that’s not country!
Secondly...and most importantly... I can’t sing along with that song and not feel like a woman! smile


In this day and age you could be a woman with a lot of drugs and a few surgeries. LOL

#1156000 - 08/21/19 02:53 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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North Alabama
Ha! Lol.... I'm just not that hard core smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
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