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#1155230 - 07/14/19 12:47 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: Jul 2006
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I know “Achy Breaky Heart” was a huge hit and made millions, but I hate it. It’s embarrassingly juvenile to me. Anytime I hear it, I rush to a window in fear of puking.

John smile


Too easy..

Looking for songs most folks love..

Everybody hated that song..

So far, IMHO, the best entries have been "Somewhere Over The Rainbow," "Suspicious Minds," and "Sunday Morning Coming Down"--songs you don't expect anyone to hate..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/14/19 01:31 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155232 - 07/14/19 01:15 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
LOL...Get specific, Gavin..if you name a song and give reasons why you don't like that particular song, I could better respond..


Well, like I said, all of them - it's a personal thing. Everyone likes Elvis. Add it to the list of things wrong with me smile

If I had to choose based on the song rather than just the fact that Elvis is singing it, then "Wooden Heart." It's like someone took the melody from an old German folk song and lazily put any old crappy words to it "I'm not made of wood, and I don't have a wooden heart." Then he sings in German, lyrics from the original song which make no sense when combined with the stuff about the wooden heart. Then back to English, and then German words that don't come from the original song, are awkward to sing, and appear to have been written by someone with an hour of Duolingo under their belt. And he does it all with a weird vibrato that doesn't sit well with the melody.

Other than that, it's fine LOL.

#1155233 - 07/14/19 01:24 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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California
LOL...sounds like a hoot..I don't know the song but will check it out..


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155236 - 07/14/19 10:31 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Songs that sound like they should be in a musical called "Social Workers!" ("The Greatest Love") aren't the only subgenre that make me wince.

There's another subgenre I don't like so much--let's call them "Look-At-Me-I'm-Such-A-Sensitive-Guy" songs.

These include "Feelings" by Morris Albert and the all time champ, "Sometimes When We Touch" by Dan Hill.

The thing is..none of these lines in isolation are a big deal:

And sometimes when we touch
The honesty's too much
And I have to close my eyes
And hide
I want to hold you till I die
Till we both break down and cry
I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides.


It's just one after the other, in rapid fire succession that proves "too much" for me. I have had stuff thrown at me by women for singing the song like Kermit the Frog. In my defense, I had just sung "Rainbow Connection" and forgot to change my voice back.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/14/19 10:38 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155238 - 07/15/19 03:21 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 228
Cheyenne Offline
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Cheyenne  Offline
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Posts: 228
Florida U.S.A.
But unlike most of us you seem drawn to the thing you object to, like the person who phones the cops to tell them there's nekked folks who forgot to draw their blinds in an apartment across the street--you can see them through your binoculars.

So perhaps, may I suggest that if this thread brings you down because of excess negativity that you put away your binoculars and ignore the thread?

Just a thought, since you don't seem to get that this is meant to be a lighthearted thread and we're all, except for you, having fun here, and not trying to be too serious. smile

But I don't think anyone has a problem with you disagreeing and liking any of the songs that are mentioned as hated, either. It is not in any way, shape, or form ANY kind of sacrilege to dislike or like a song, but it can be interesting to uncover reasons why..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike , can you remember how long you have been in Love With Yourself ?????

Oh the thread is okay Mike especially as it was yours , but your presumptions about me are

completely wrong Your need to add a childish remark about a nasty neighbor and binoculars

and your suggestion that I dont seem to get what the discussions is about , is simply your

usual way of trying to impress others that you are such a talented

musician , and lyricist , when in fact your composing is very third rate. but then your

opinions are yours, and I can only put that down to a sheltered existence, ?, but I wont go

any further than that. I will lightly steal away and avoid this type of confrontation , in the

future --

Keep pulling in the pats on the back Mike ,

You definitely need them , and it's quite normal for someone like yourself.


P s we dont need a Four Page Reply in your defense Mike, spend your

spare time analyzing yourself , we dont need an encore of your recent debate

with ferdemento or whatever he calls himself


PSS It can also be constructive, to reply to someone who in our own opinion

is hating a song for opinions that are quite insular to the masses . who buy

song recordings --- after all --- We Are All Wannabe Song Writers!

It pays to know what the public wants, and indeed it's still a light hearted

debate ----

Oh re your critique of Dan Hills Recording I am Sure

Barry Mann liked the lyric to ---Sometimes When We Touch ---

when presented with Dan Hill's Lyrics , and that was the reason he put a

Top Class Melody to it .



Best Wishes Cheyenne






Last edited by Cheyenne; 07/15/19 04:55 AM.

One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1155239 - 07/15/19 07:13 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 175
JAPOV Offline
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JAPOV  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 175
North Alabama
Originally Posted by Cheyenne
OH Excuse me Chaps I thought I could also comment if I

did not agree with someone who hated a song, and state why I thought

they were wrong ???

What a dull world it would be if we all loved the same things in life

I like cycling around the country side, because the feel of fresh air

on my face invigorates me I often come up with my best songs

whilst loosing a few pounds of unwanted flesh

But thats just me ----- If I am watching a situation Comedy on the T V

and I hear canned laughter badly edited I change to another channel or turn

off the T V, but thats me

Commenting is great and we dont have to agree with each other, so no

problem there; I respect everyone's opinion but excess negativity on here

is beginning to get me down ; I can remember a much older brigade of folk

on here many gone on -- who were less negative ,

Trouble is many on here seem to belive an honest critique of their work that

does not agree with their own mind set , can only be written by a TROLL

Yes I am off the subject of the Original Post , but does that matter ????


"TROLL"...... Self edifying, self promoting, self proclaimed industry professional, self credentialed "teacher of the songwriting craft ", and salesman to be specific Cheyenne. Speaking of negativity.....


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155241 - 07/15/19 09:28 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,549
Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Crozet, VA
Got a PM telling me things were going a bit off the rails here. Folks, please keep it respectful and avoid personal attacks. If you think someone was being offensive to you personally, re-examine the words to make sure -- before you bring out the flame thrower.

By the way, I think achy breaky heart is actually a pretty well done song. I think most people don't like it because they were told it is the worst song in country music's long and winding road.


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1155242 - 07/15/19 10:16 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,257
Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
OH Excuse me Chaps I thought I could also comment if I

did not agree with someone who hated a song, and state why I thought

they were wrong ???

What a dull world it would be if we all loved the same things in life

I like cycling around the country side, because the feel of fresh air

on my face invigorates me I often come up with my best songs

whilst loosing a few pounds of unwanted flesh

But thats just me ----- If I am watching a situation Comedy on the T V

and I hear canned laughter badly edited I change to another channel or turn

off the T V, but thats me

Commenting is great and we dont have to agree with each other, so no

problem there; I respect everyone's opinion but excess negativity on here

is beginning to get me down ; I can remember a much older brigade of folk

on here many gone on -- who were less negative ,

Trouble is many on here seem to belive an honest critique of their work that

does not agree with their own mind set , can only be written by a TROLL

Yes I am off the subject of the Original Post , but does that matter ????


But Cheyenne, that's the classic " do I look fat in this dress" "well, you kinda do".... WHATTTT? IS THAT what you think?
"Well, maybe you should go find some skinny woman to be with."

This is the problem with critiquing songs. If we cant even say something doesnt sit well with us, for popular songs, where the artist could care a less about us or what we think, how the hell can we give honest critiques here?

The only real difference is when its somebody here, people soft soak it, and wont say what they really think. i guess because its more personal and taken as an attack.

You can defend the song if you feel it's good. But you attacked when u did it.

#1155243 - 07/15/19 10:23 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Songs that sound like they should be in a musical called "Social Workers!" ("The Greatest Love") aren't the only subgenre that make me wince.

There's another subgenre I don't like so much--let's call them "Look-At-Me-I'm-Such-A-Sensitive-Guy" songs.

These include "Feelings" by Morris Albert and the all time champ, "Sometimes When We Touch" by Dan Hill.

The thing is..none of these lines in isolation are a big deal:

And sometimes when we touch
The honesty's too much
And I have to close my eyes
And hide
I want to hold you till I die
Till we both break down and cry
I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides.


It's just one after the other, in rapid fire succession that proves "too much" for me. I have had stuff thrown at me by women for singing the song like Kermit the Frog. In my defense, I had just sung "Rainbow Connection" and forgot to change my voice back.

Mike


I sang and performed "sometimes when we touch" at a company picnic many years ago. It was a VIP woman who loved the song so i did it. There's still a broken up VHS tape of that performance circulating around "somewhere"in the swamps of Jersey"

Even the President of the company enjoyed it, and another guy who wanted to be my agent. I kinda saw how Billy Joel got the line "Man what are you doin here? cause I got that line. "im here cause you guys wont pay me to be an artist", but you will pay me to work in your database!

I think it's a great song, it's hard not to get caught up in it, emotional, lyrics are on point, and its the type of song they use as examples in songwriting articles.

But I will agree that its a bit too much, and pretentious That bridge kills me every time though, i think its the intense melody.



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/19 10:40 AM.
#1155244 - 07/15/19 10:42 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Sep 2007
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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Minneapolis
I hate "Start Me Up" by the Rolling Stones.

Is that okay?

#1155245 - 07/15/19 10:53 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,527
Mark Kaufman Offline
Mark Kaufman  Offline

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Minneapolis
Worse yet, I really like "Don't Worry Be Happy". It doesn't make me mad, and cracks me up a little, the whole idea of saying that phrase, no matter what terrible things happen to you. It's like the inner voice that Job couldn't turn off.

I've met Bobby McFerrin, and I can attest to the fact that he is one very peaceful dude with a good sense of humor. The point of the song is simply to remember to chill out, that your problems don't have to force you into negativity. The irony of the song is how many people turn negative as soon as they hear it, LOL.

#1155246 - 07/15/19 11:06 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Worse yet, I really like "Don't Worry Be Happy". It doesn't make me mad, and cracks me up a little, the whole idea of saying that phrase, no matter what terrible things happen to you. It's like the inner voice that Job couldn't turn off.

I've met Bobby McFerrin, and I can attest to the fact that he is one very peaceful dude with a good sense of humor. The point of the song is simply to remember to chill out, that your problems don't have to force you into negativity. The irony of the song is how many people turn negative as soon as they hear it, LOL.


Yeah it has the effect of making you want to go over to the guy singing it, and belting him in the mouth! LOL

I think Mcferrin is extraordinary. He did that whole track with his vocals, I couldnt do that no matter how hard I tried. Shows how schooled and well versed as a musician he is as well as vocalist. Exceptional performance.

It depends what your looking at when asked. When most people speak of a "song" what they are really talking about is the recording of that song. I heard a really great track on the radio doesnt sound right, i heard a really good song on the radio does, even though its the track they like.

Dont Worry Be Happy, comes from Mehar Baba, the same Indian mystic who inspired The Who's Baba Oreilly.

I dont think ive ever listened to dont worry be happy on my own watch though, only if I heard it on in a car, or MTV, or some lounge singer cover it.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/19 11:07 AM.
#1155248 - 07/15/19 11:14 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Posts: 635
Conover, North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Songs that sound like they should be in a musical called "Social Workers!" ("The Greatest Love") aren't the only subgenre that make me wince.

There's another subgenre I don't like so much--let's call them "Look-At-Me-I'm-Such-A-Sensitive-Guy" songs.

These include "Feelings" by Morris Albert and the all time champ, "Sometimes When We Touch" by Dan Hill.

The thing is..none of these lines in isolation are a big deal:

And sometimes when we touch
The honesty's too much
And I have to close my eyes
And hide
I want to hold you till I die
Till we both break down and cry
I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides.


It's just one after the other, in rapid fire succession that proves "too much" for me. I have had stuff thrown at me by women for singing the song like Kermit the Frog. In my defense, I had just sung "Rainbow Connection" and forgot to change my voice back.

Mike


I have to agree. I have always hated this one for the reasons you mention. Also, the intense melody and "sensitive guy" delivery jars with the insincerity of the lyrics. Who has ever touched someone and thought, "You know what? The honesty here is just too much."? Who really wants to hold someone until he dies? Why are they both going to break down and cry? Now he wants to hold her until the fear in him subsides - I thought he wanted to hold her until he dies. None of it rings true.

This is all just my opinion. The fact that I hate it is just that and no more. Obviously, many people loved it. That is the point of this thread.

#1155249 - 07/15/19 11:39 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Dare I say.... "Imagine"

#1155250 - 07/15/19 11:45 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Posts: 4,912
California
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Dare I say.... "Imagine"



You can, but I did ask nicely in the first post to specifically NOT mention that one, cuz it divides folks according to religious lines, and I didn't want that to happen.


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155251 - 07/15/19 11:47 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Dare I say.... "Imagine"



You can, but I did ask nicely in the first post to specifically NOT mention that one, cuz it divides folks according to religious lines, and I didn't want that to happen.



oh. Well if it helps its not because of anything religious that I may or may not like it.

#1155252 - 07/15/19 12:07 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Im Gonna say it.... Unchained Melody.

I know we had a post about it, and I do think of the economy of lyric, and the emotion of the performance.

But the reality for me, is the song makes me depressed. Im not sure why, it just makes me sad when listening.

On top of that, it's boring as all get out. If it wasn't for great vocals in any version the song would die a quick death.

But I may stand in the minority here


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/15/19 12:08 PM.
#1155253 - 07/15/19 12:21 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
But unlike most of us you seem drawn to the thing you object to, like the person who phones the cops to tell them there's nekked folks who forgot to draw their blinds in an apartment across the street--you can see them through your binoculars.

So perhaps, may I suggest that if this thread brings you down because of excess negativity that you put away your binoculars and ignore the thread?

Just a thought, since you don't seem to get that this is meant to be a lighthearted thread and we're all, except for you, having fun here, and not trying to be too serious. smile

But I don't think anyone has a problem with you disagreeing and liking any of the songs that are mentioned as hated, either. It is not in any way, shape, or form ANY kind of sacrilege to dislike or like a song, but it can be interesting to uncover reasons why..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike , can you remember how long you have been in Love With Yourself ?????

Oh the thread is okay Mike especially as it was yours , but your presumptions about me are

completely wrong Your need to add a childish remark about a nasty neighbor and binoculars

and your suggestion that I dont seem to get what the discussions is about , is simply your

usual way of trying to impress others that you are such a talented

musician , and lyricist , when in fact your composing is very third rate. but then your

opinions are yours, and I can only put that down to a sheltered existence, ?, but I wont go

any further than that. I will lightly steal away and avoid this type of confrontation , in the

future --

Keep pulling in the pats on the back Mike ,

You definitely need them , and it's quite normal for someone like yourself.


P s we dont need a Four Page Reply in your defense Mike, spend your

spare time analyzing yourself , we dont need an encore of your recent debate

with ferdemento or whatever he calls himself


PSS It can also be constructive, to reply to someone who in our own opinion

is hating a song for opinions that are quite insular to the masses . who buy

song recordings --- after all --- We Are All Wannabe Song Writers!

It pays to know what the public wants, and indeed it's still a light hearted

debate ----

Oh re your critique of Dan Hills Recording I am Sure

Barry Mann liked the lyric to ---Sometimes When We Touch ---

when presented with Dan Hill's Lyrics , and that was the reason he put a

Top Class Melody to it .



Best Wishes Cheyenne







W O W.....

Tell me how you really feel. smile

I hope you feel better having gotten that off your chest.

I am sorry you find it hard to laugh along with us.

My suggesting you not read the thread was specifically because you said it was depressing to you, and so it seemed like a logical thought to not read it..and the binoculars comment was simply an illustration of the absurdity of continuing to read a thread that you found depressing. It is something you are "choosing" to do.. No one is forcing you. You have agency. You have free will.

Dave Barry has written humorous books disparaging popular songs he doesn't like. I doubt you would buy those books and read them cover to cover, hating Dave Barry while continuing to read page after page.

The CEO of JPF Brian will be first in line to tell you about songs that makes his skin crawl, like he did recently with Eric Clapton's "Tears In Heaven."

I DEFENDED "Sunday Morning Coming Down" and "Don't Worry Be Happy" --and yet you direct your anger at me, and that's fine, but I can't feel any sadness over it because there are too many good things happening in my life for your misplaced anger to matter, sorry. smile


Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/15/19 01:22 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155254 - 07/15/19 12:23 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Well,
Less see here. I believe Achey Breaky Heart was voted the worst song of all time. And I have heard at least one person bad mouth it. So much for that.

A Classical piece I don't like is MORNING MOOD from Peer Gynt Suite No. 1.


Ray E. Strode
#1155255 - 07/15/19 12:29 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Im Gonna say it.... Unchained Melody.

I know we had a post about it, and I do think of the economy of lyric, and the emotion of the performance.

But the reality for me, is the song makes me depressed. Im not sure why, it just makes me sad when listening.

On top of that, it's boring as all get out. If it wasn't for great vocals in any version the song would die a quick death.

But I may stand in the minority here




I seem to remember a Willie Nelson version I enjoyed of this song. Otherwise, I hear ya. Like "Suspicious Minds" --it seems to rely on drama to make it work, with way, over-the-top vocal performances from most of the folks that attempt the song. Willie did it laid back as ever..

Mike


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155256 - 07/15/19 12:42 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I hate "Start Me Up" by the Rolling Stones.

Is that okay?


I had a friend in Nashville in the Nineties, Kevin Bussey, we both were working at Tower Records at the time, and this song was his cue to jump up on a backroom table and do his "Mick" impersonation which was spot on. All primping and arched back and hilarious..

Miss you Kevin!!

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/15/19 12:42 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155257 - 07/15/19 12:50 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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One thing I like about Achy Breaky Heart is the authoritative phrasing of the melody. Every line is the chorus is sung like a command.


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155260 - 07/15/19 03:24 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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I'm sitting here trying to understand why I don't like "Start Me Up" but I really like "She's So Cold". There really isn't a lot of difference between these songs...probably even in the same key. I'll turn down "Start Me Up" and crank up "She's So Cold" every time.

I'll let you know what the shrink says.

#1155261 - 07/15/19 03:36 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I'm sitting here trying to understand why I don't like "Start Me Up" but I really like "She's So Cold". There really isn't a lot of difference between these songs...probably even in the same key. I'll turn down "Start Me Up" and crank up "She's So Cold" every time.

I'll let you know what the shrink says.


LOL..

Maybe you don't like the Energizer Bunny? And yes, just as real as the Easter Bunny, I'm telling you..

That commercial would come on, and my mom, God rest her soul--she was well into her Eighties at this point, would always shout at the TV, "I don't like that bunny!"

Mick is kinda comparing himself to one in "Start Me Up" so.. whistle

Whereas "She's So Cold" seems more like an anthem for the modern caveman--reducing romance to its binary components.

I like the latter more, too.. smile With me it's Charlie's breaking it down more (into 16ths and such) in the latter and the beat feels propulsive, while holding back in the former..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/15/19 06:35 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155264 - 07/15/19 08:20 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Here’s another one I don’t care for: “Twist and Shout”.

I mean...not much substance there. Sure, it’s lighthearted fun but no thank you. Can I get thru a wedding without hearing this song? And then have to dance to it too? It’s too slow to dance to IMHO. So the energy behind the lyric doesn’t truly fly for me. It’s celebratory, so it should be faster in my mind. Call me a party pooper....I guess I am! grin

But delving into the psyche as this is...lol...maybe I just don’t like doing the twist! That’s very possible! Ha. But no...Chubby Checker’s “The Twist” lyric is charming & fun with all the “twist” rhymes and the song is faster. And “Pulp Fiction’s twist contest is dynamite! I don’t remember what song they were dancing to, but John Travolta...Uma Thurman...very cool!


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
#1155265 - 07/15/19 09:26 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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"I don’t remember what song they were dancing to, but John Travolta...Uma Thurman...very cool!"

I'll second that! smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1155276 - 07/16/19 07:21 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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I guess it is just a case of "one man's meat is another man's poison". We all have different taste which is good, makes for an interesting world. I didn't hate or love Achy Breaky but it inspired me to write Oh my aching heart which went no where. LOL I've yet to hear a rap song that I like but many do like rap, to each his own. Many don't like anything Gospel, maybe it is the message. I've heard some Gospel songs that appear to have been written by someone just learning to write, but they are sung by many that appear to love them.

#1155278 - 07/16/19 09:11 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I'm sitting here trying to understand why I don't like "Start Me Up" but I really like "She's So Cold". There really isn't a lot of difference between these songs...probably even in the same key. I'll turn down "Start Me Up" and crank up "She's So Cold" every time.

I'll let you know what the shrink says.


She's So Cold is my favorite Stones track. I see/hear art when I hear shes so cold. I didnt always, I just thought it was a cool song. But it may be entirely me, but the little guitar parts, to me sound like somebody is playing inside a refrigerator, or on some icy terrain. Im not sure how they accomplished that, but those little licks sound like icicles dripping off, and that metallic edge you might expect from a cold environment. And the shuffling drum beat sounds like plodding on ice. Again, it may be totally me hearing things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo34VhfcetU

Start me up may be a case of overkill. It got to a point where you couldnt watch a football game without start me up playing right before kickoff. it might have gotten too much exposure, and "you make a dead man come" is a pretty lame line, but i guess works for rock n roll.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/16/19 09:12 AM.
#1155281 - 07/16/19 10:14 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
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Originally Posted by Kristi McKeever
Here’s another one I don’t care for: “Twist and Shout”.

I mean...not much substance there. Sure, it’s lighthearted fun but no thank you. Can I get thru a wedding without hearing this song? And then have to dance to it too? It’s too slow to dance to IMHO. So the energy behind the lyric doesn’t truly fly for me. It’s celebratory, so it should be faster in my mind. Call me a party pooper....I guess I am! grin

But delving into the psyche as this is...lol...maybe I just don’t like doing the twist! That’s very possible! Ha. But no...Chubby Checker’s “The Twist” lyric is charming & fun with all the “twist” rhymes and the song is faster. And “Pulp Fiction’s twist contest is dynamite! I don’t remember what song they were dancing to, but John Travolta...Uma Thurman...very cool!


I just remember how the song was a song John Lennon recorded with The Beatles, was it when he had a cold? I remember it was a bit out of his range, and hence the shreddy sound of his voice, He then taught Nilsson how to sing like that a decade later for the record he produced for Nilsson "Pussycats" and then Nilsson thereby blew out his pipes and never made another good record.

The Isley Brothers version is great...probably like it more..

I have a sneaky suspicion Chubby Checker and Kermit the Frog are the same person. wink

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/16/19 10:15 AM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155282 - 07/16/19 10:17 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I guess it is just a case of "one man's meat is another man's poison". We all have different taste which is good, makes for an interesting world. I didn't hate or love Achy Breaky but it inspired me to write Oh my aching heart which went no where. LOL I've yet to hear a rap song that I like but many do like rap, to each his own. Many don't like anything Gospel, maybe it is the message. I've heard some Gospel songs that appear to have been written by someone just learning to write, but they are sung by many that appear to love them.


Exactly. Variety is the spice of life..


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155283 - 07/16/19 10:40 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? And saying these things to a "virgin child" ..? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTAS when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/17/19 12:20 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155297 - 07/16/19 05:05 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


She's So Cold is my favorite Stones track. I see/hear art when I hear shes so cold. I didnt always, I just thought it was a cool song. But it may be entirely me, but the little guitar parts, to me sound like somebody is playing inside a refrigerator, or on some icy terrain. Im not sure how they accomplished that, but those little licks sound like icicles dripping off, and that metallic edge you might expect from a cold environment. And the shuffling drum beat sounds like plodding on ice. Again, it may be totally me hearing things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo34VhfcetU

Start me up may be a case of overkill. It got to a point where you couldnt watch a football game without start me up playing right before kickoff. it might have gotten too much exposure, and "you make a dead man come" is a pretty lame line, but i guess works for rock n roll.



"I'm a bleedin' volcano" is no better!

Yeah I guess it's all about the spare, staccato bluesy approach of the band that makes "She's So Cold" work for me when "Start Me Up" leaves me cold and unstarted. Jagger delivers both songs in the exact same bombastic Jaggery mode—both videos show him mugging for the camera in the exact same weird mood, staring at the camera widening his eyes a lot, just because widening his eyes looks interesting, but it's really not particularly meaningful, just making the same faces and poses and delivering the vocal that needs delivering in the old familiar way. I don't get it, but I'm going to go listen to "She's So Cold" again. But not "Start Me Up". That one's gross.

#1155298 - 07/16/19 05:17 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTASDI when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike


I could NEVER deal with "I Am I Said", even though the idea of an existentialist song greatly appeals to me, and it's all because of the word "even".

It's bad enough that the chair was anthropomorphized for no apparent reason and without PeeWee's Playhouse to show for it. What makes it unacceptable to me is the idea that it also seems to be the worst listener of ALL the household furnishings—I mean, it's bad enough that the lamp and the sofa didn't hear his blubbering incomplete sentence, but even that nosy, busy-body CHAIR missed it, which is just embarrassing....I GUESS. According to Neil anyway. Too much of that scotch on the rocks if you ask me.

#1155301 - 07/16/19 10:20 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTASDI when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike


I could NEVER deal with "I Am I Said", even though the idea of an existentialist song greatly appeals to me, and it's all because of the word "even".

It's bad enough that the chair was anthropomorphized for no apparent reason and without PeeWee's Playhouse to show for it. What makes it unacceptable to me is the idea that it also seems to be the worst listener of ALL the household furnishings—I mean, it's bad enough that the lamp and the sofa didn't hear his blubbering incomplete sentence, but even that nosy, busy-body CHAIR missed it, which is just embarrassing....I GUESS. According to Neil anyway. Too much of that scotch on the rocks if you ask me.


LOL..How very true! How else to "read" what Neil was thinking? To be the best listener in Neil's room's gotta be a lotta pressure for the poor chair, too. And how exactly does the chair go about acknowledging Neil when it does hear him? Does it cross it's legs? Wobble a bit?

And yes, to say "even" complicates things. It's almost as if someone put it to Neil:

Barbs: Hey Neil, wassup, I got Kris over here singing some dumb song about pullin' dirty clothes out of his hamper..

Neil: Barbs, I'm goin' nuts over here, I'm real, aren't I? I mean, is anything real? But if nothing's real, I can't be rrrr

Barbs: Whoa whoa Neil, what's going on? Have you been hittin' the peace pipe and getting all Camus with the sofa and chest-of-drawers, screaming that you exist, again? I mean they ARE pretty good listeners so what's the problem?

Neil: I did, I was, I am, I said, and now, they're all ignoring me..

Barbs: Even the chair?!?

Neil: Even the chair.. (*crying sounds over the phone*)

Barbs: There there Neil, it'll be alright. Maybe it's having an off day. Have you tried the coat rack?

********************************************************************************

Anyway, thanks Mark for making me laugh!!


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/17/19 12:40 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155344 - 07/17/19 02:42 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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BWAHAHAHA!!

#1155359 - 07/17/19 09:15 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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I think you have this all wrong. He is not addressing a piece of furniture, but the chair of an unspecified committee of which he is a junior member that nobody pays attention to, not even the chair, especially not the chair.

#1155363 - 07/17/19 09:58 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
I think you have this all wrong. He is not addressing a piece of furniture, but the chair of an unspecified committee of which he is a junior member that nobody pays attention to, not even the chair, especially not the chair.


LOLOLOL....

nice... smile

Maybe a junior chair of Existentialists Anonymous?

or of The International Society of Verb Conjugaters?



Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/17/19 10:14 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155376 - 07/18/19 10:15 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Speaking of Dave Barry's old books dissing bad pop lyrics, I remember he talked about these...

Neil Diamond's "I Am I Said" with the line

"and no one heard at all/not even the chair"

Okay, Neil was having an existential crisis, I can relate, we've all had those. But a sentient chair? And in the Platonic form as well, just the chair, like the "eternal form" of chair. Like we intimately know his chair, cuz it's just the chair...but I suppose naming the chair woulda just been worse, "and no one heard at all, not even Myrtle the Chair.." .."whom I'm about to go sit on.."

Once the silliness of that was pointed out for me, I could never enjoy the song again..

Another is from a Rod Stewart's hit song called "Tonight's the Night" with the "double-take" word in a horrible line in a verse that is wrong in so many ways I can't count:

Don't say a word my virgin child
Just let your inhibitions run wild
The secret is about to unfold
Upstairs before the night's too old


Did Rod think the word "inhibitions" was a synonym for "fantasies?" Why would he seem to suggest to a woman probably half his age to get really scared before having relations? And saying these things to a "virgin child" ..? It practically makes him sound like a child predator. But I honestly never like anything from Rod Stewart after EPTAS when he had lots of mando in the mix.

Rod's is one of the last in a long line of songs "celebrating" the underage girl. I mean, in the Mid Seventies, Ringo Starr, well into his thirties by that point, had a massive hit with a regurgitated "Your Sixteen, Your Beautiful, And Your Mine" and nobody seemed to mind. Thankfully, I don't think it could fly today...

Mike


Im a big fan of Rod Stewart from Faces right through the 70's. Young Turks was one of my favorite MTV songs in the 80's, just terrific. I think in Tonights The Night, he's singing from the perspective of a young guy.....tWO young people. "stay away from my window, stay away from my back door too" Going by somebodys window is a classic teenage tale

First he's warning her not to come over, then he's telling her how its gonna be... lol

But as i said before, singers play the character.

in retrospect, it could be that the girl was being agrresive towards him at first, but hes afraid cause shes too young?

Many ways to look at it, thats songwriting!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/18/19 10:38 AM.
#1155377 - 07/18/19 10:24 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
Lessee see here. A smattering of Pop Songs that I particularly like.
WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers.
THE POOR PEOPLE OF PARIS. Les Baxter
THE WAYWARD WIND. Gogi Grant.
SAIL ALONG SILVERY MOON. Billy Vaughn.
A WALK IN THE BLACK FORREST. Horst Jankowski.
I DIDN'T KNOW THE GUN WAS LOADED, The Andrews Sisters.
and SMOKE ALONG THE TRACK. A country song by Stonewall Jackson.


Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 07/18/19 11:58 AM.

Ray E. Strode
#1155378 - 07/18/19 10:29 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
Lessee see here. A smattering of Pop Songs that I particularly like.
WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers.
THE POOR PEOPLE OF PARIS. Les Baxter
THE WAYWARD WIND. Gogi Grant.
SAIL ALONG SILVERY MOON. Billy Vaughn.
A WALK IN THE BLACK FORREST. Horst Jankowski.
I DIDN'T KNOW THE GUN WAS LOADED, The Fontaine Sisters, I think
and SMOKE ALONG THE TRACK. A country song by Stonewall Jackson.



Im gonna start a thread soon, but i didnt want this thread to die too soon. My threads gonna be instead "songs i like, that people wouldnt think I would"

#1155380 - 07/18/19 10:53 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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I never really looked at the Neil Diamond lyrics before.

Sounds like hes building on the idea of "if a tree falls in a forest, and nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound"

In his case the chair is the tree, and it didnt make a sound.

Cornballish i guess. But I like Neil Diamond

#1155381 - 07/18/19 10:58 AM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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How bout MOST Journey songs.

Open Arms, Faithfully, Lights, Sender her my Love

They just go all out to make women cry. Steve Perry is a great vocalist, but he's just too overbearing for me to listen to

I will say I like dont Stop Believin, Stone in Love and Anyway you want it. Wheel in the sky pretty good too.

Just the love ballads make me want to break something.

#1155390 - 07/18/19 01:47 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


But as i said before, singers play the character.





I think this is definitely a debatable topic because I question that it holds true for the average person in all cases. But giving that debate it's due is honestly beyond my scope right now.

That topic being "hearing the singer as playing a character or as himself."

There's an unwritten "code" I'm sure, such as the singer's personal history (are his/her songs usually pulled from his/her/life, the plausibility of the scenario, etc.)

But even then, I can imagine there are singers and older singers in particular who wouldn't "choose" to sing the song cuz they object to the lyric's content.

And I don't think it's an unnatural reaction to hear an older man singing "Tonight's The Night" and get a little creeped-out by it, even though, as you say, we're "supposed" to remember that "the singer is playing a character" --but why must we, isn't that up to the listener? Certainly you don't think the average listener should have a set of instructions to go with any given song.

The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

And ultimately for me, even IF I keep it in my head Rod is playing a character, I am STILL creeped-out by the song.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 02:54 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155391 - 07/18/19 02:36 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski


The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

Mike

I always took that line as being comically ironic. The character singing it is barely older and certainly not wiser. His juvenile pomposity is being mocked by the words coming out of his own mouth. For that reason, I don't find it creepy so much as deliberately ridiculous. Of course, he's also a Nazi, but that's a whole other thing!

#1155392 - 07/18/19 02:46 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski


The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

Mike

I always took that line as being comically ironic. The character singing it is barely older and certainly not wiser. His juvenile pomposity is being mocked by the words coming out of his own mouth. For that reason, I don't find it creepy so much as deliberately ridiculous. Of course, he's also a Nazi, but that's a whole other thing!


Your right. I was groping for a comparison and mine was a poor one..I'll strike through that text but leave it...just want to signify I changed my mind about that part..I hear the irony in that now that you mention it.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 02:57 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155393 - 07/18/19 03:12 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
How bout MOST Journey songs.

Open Arms, Faithfully, Lights, Sender her my Love

They just go all out to make women cry. Steve Perry is a great vocalist, but he's just too overbearing for me to listen to

I will say I like dont Stop Believin, Stone in Love and Anyway you want it. Wheel in the sky pretty good too.

Just the love ballads make me want to break something.


Haha, find an old saucer you don't need..

I was a fan back in the day..

I'd put "Don't Stop Believin'" in the time capsule along with BOC's "Don't Fear the Reaper" from the same time period which both inexplicably make me more emotional now than they did, back when..I'll talk about the latter when you start your thread..

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 03:24 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155394 - 07/18/19 04:44 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Oct 2017
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Fdemetrio  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


But as i said before, singers play the character.





I think this is definitely a debatable topic because I question that it holds true for the average person in all cases. But giving that debate it's due is honestly beyond my scope right now.

That topic being "hearing the singer as playing a character or as himself."

There's an unwritten "code" I'm sure, such as the singer's personal history (are his/her songs usually pulled from his/her/life, the plausibility of the scenario, etc.)

But even then, I can imagine there are singers and older singers in particular who wouldn't "choose" to sing the song cuz they object to the lyric's content.

And I don't think it's an unnatural reaction to hear an older man singing "Tonight's The Night" and get a little creeped-out by it, even though, as you say, we're "supposed" to remember that "the singer is playing a character" --but why must we, isn't that up to the listener? Certainly you don't think the average listener should have a set of instructions to go with any given song.

The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

And ultimately for me, even IF I keep it in my head Rod is playing a character, I am STILL creeped-out by the song.

Mike


its certainly open for debate. and im not saying your wrong either. it would be totally creepy if a man in his mid to late 20's was singing this to a teenage girl. But its not clear what the case is.

SIngers use first person "I" alot. seems to be the most powerful tense.

When Bruce sang "Hey little girl is your daddy home, did he go and leave you all alone, I got a bad desire" he was a 35 year old man singing that. Was it Bruce, bruce protraying the feelings of a pedofile his age, or was it a kid the same age as the girl?

When he sang about a construction worker who marries a teen girl, and takes her across state lines. was that HIM? was it him from persective of somebody else.

He certainly wasnt the serial killer he sang "I" in in Nebraska

Was Alice cooper in school when he released "Schools out? LOL

Was David Lee Roth in grammar school when he wrote and sang Hot for Teacher?

There are alot of songs about school and school love, the 50's were full of teen love songs that were song by older men.

Its a good topic to start just from a writing POV, the word "I" has ramifications.

#1155395 - 07/18/19 05:32 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


But as i said before, singers play the character.





I think this is definitely a debatable topic because I question that it holds true for the average person in all cases. But giving that debate it's due is honestly beyond my scope right now.

That topic being "hearing the singer as playing a character or as himself."

There's an unwritten "code" I'm sure, such as the singer's personal history (are his/her songs usually pulled from his/her/life, the plausibility of the scenario, etc.)

But even then, I can imagine there are singers and older singers in particular who wouldn't "choose" to sing the song cuz they object to the lyric's content.

And I don't think it's an unnatural reaction to hear an older man singing "Tonight's The Night" and get a little creeped-out by it, even though, as you say, we're "supposed" to remember that "the singer is playing a character" --but why must we, isn't that up to the listener? Certainly you don't think the average listener should have a set of instructions to go with any given song.

The litmus test for me, with the Rod Stewart song is that I cannot imagine the song working even when sung by an age appropriate man. The song sets it up that this guy is older and flaunts that to some degree, and I find it icky. At best, it's an "R" rated version of "You Are 16 Going On 17" from "The Sound of Music" in which the guy tells the girl "you need someone older and wiser/telling you what to do" and honestly, I think THAT line has aged poorly as well.

And ultimately for me, even IF I keep it in my head Rod is playing a character, I am STILL creeped-out by the song.

Mike


its certainly open for debate. and im not saying your wrong either. it would be totally creepy if a man in his mid to late 20's was singing this to a teenage girl. But its not clear what the case is.

SIngers use first person "I" alot. seems to be the most powerful tense.

When Bruce sang "Hey little girl is your daddy home, did he go and leave you all alone, I got a bad desire" he was a 35 year old man singing that. Was it Bruce, bruce protraying the feelings of a pedofile his age, or was it a kid the same age as the girl?

When he sang about a construction worker who marries a teen girl, and takes her across state lines. was that HIM? was it him from persective of somebody else.

He certainly wasnt the serial killer he sang "I" in in Nebraska

Was Alice cooper in school when he released "Schools out? LOL

Was David Lee Roth in grammar school when he wrote and sang Hot for Teacher?

There are alot of songs about school and school love, the 50's were full of teen love songs that were song by older men.

Its a good topic to start just from a writing POV, the word "I" has ramifications.



"little red riding hood," "little girl," "baby," etc..all fine, with me, in the contexts they get used, 99% of the time.


"Virgin child" to me, though, is a little much. Too explicit. The word "virgin" is used because "tonight's the night" and it's too much for me. That combined with asking her to let her "inhibitions run wild" --yuck..

As I said, even if I imagine Rod playing a character..still creeped-out..and the music is pretty lame to me as well..

Whereas arguably darker things are going on in "Don't Fear the Reaper" and it's one of my favorite songs of all-time..go figure!!

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/18/19 05:51 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155397 - 07/18/19 06:53 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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There's probably at least three ways a (first person) song and singer can be heard:

1) singing as himself or herself

2) singing as "someone else" or as a specific or generalized "character"

3) singing as an "audience surrogate"

I think in "Tonight's The Night" Stewart is singing as a surrogate for a teen to "imagine himself as" --and not, as you say, as a "character" per se.

My not being the target audience is one really good reason I don't connect with the song.

Another is that the word "inhibitions" sabotages Rod's best intentions in the lyric. As do some other things I pointed out that I doubt a boy of similar age to the girl would think, let alone say. If this is meant a be a grown woman, "virgin child" certainly misrepresents that. That's extremely specific. Whereas "little girl" and especially "baby," through common usage in popular songs have taken on a much broader meaning.


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/19/19 03:07 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1155400 - 07/18/19 11:03 PM Re: I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Kristi McKeever Offline
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Kristi McKeever  Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
There's probably at least three ways a (first person singular) song and singer can be heard:

1) singing as himself or herself

2) singing as a specific "someone else" or as a specific "character"

3) singing as an "audience surrogate"


I think so too. And fdemetrio's statement that "I" seems to be a powerful tense to use in writing lyrics. Most of my lyrics are written in 1st person, but I would have traveled the world if they were all my experience!! As a listener, I probably assume a singer is singing something they "believe in" but not necessarily their own experience.

But I would be wrong in the case of Tina Turner and I’m sure many other singers. I believe it’s true that she hated “What’s Love Got to Do With It” but you’d never know that watching her perform it. wink


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
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