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#1154606 - 06/26/19 09:13 PM My first co-write since Helen  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Hi folks and friends. This is a co-write that me and JaneK have done together.
It's also my first song since my Helen passed away and she was always my sounding board. I valued her opinions so much.

Now it's up to you to add your thoughts and suggestions before we go to the next stage.

God Bless to all and thanks in advance

Roy

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13891673


Gone is the wonderland (c) Roy Cooper / Jane Karwoski 2019

Verse 1:
As I get up for work
It's early in the day
Wish I could stay in bed
But I have a bill to pay

chorus 1:
Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,
When Mum and Dad where there
To lead me by the hand

verse 2:
It's late when I get home
Been working hard all day
Relaxing in my chair
Takes my pain away

verse 3:
And when I fall asleep
I now dream of going far
Touring around the world
Become a superstar

chorus 1:
Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,
When Mum and Dad where there
To lead me by the hand

bridge
I worked all week paydays here again
Borrowed money for my music so I can't complain
Though paying a 'Bill' is always such a pain
Because 'Bill' ......... is my lenders name

chorus
Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,
When Mum and Dad where there
To lead me by the hand

Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,

Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1154609 - 06/26/19 10:42 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 144
JAPOV Online content
Serious Contributor
JAPOV  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 144
North Alabama
Just a thought....

A cigarette and a shot of rye remind me who I am
Gone is that wonderland that filled my childhood dreams
Lovers, fools, unpaid dues and no tears left to cry
Mum n Dad's loving wish won’t get you far it seems...

On a side note, the whole "going into debt to chase a superstar dream" motif is kind of odd to me. To simply mention a childhood dream of stardom is more universally relatable I believe. I think this should just be a story about "growing up". Perhaps a story about getting his Dad's old guitar out of the pawn shop would be an interesting angle? Just an opinion. Nice harmony smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1154612 - 06/27/19 12:47 AM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: JAPOV]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Just a thought....

A cigarette and a shot of rye remind me who I am
Gone is that wonderland that filled my childhood dreams
Lovers, fools, unpaid dues and no tears left to cry
Mum n Dad's loving wish won’t get you far it seems...

On a side note, the whole "going into debt to chase a superstar dream" motif is kind of odd to me. To simply mention a childhood dream of stardom is more universally relatable I believe. I think this should just be a story about "growing up". Perhaps a story about getting his Dad's old guitar out of the pawn shop would be an interesting angle? Just an opinion. Nice harmony smile


Thanks Japov for taking time to have a read/listen and for your thoughts. You have given me some food for thought.
I will dwell on it for a while and also see what others say.
It is JaneK doing the vocals and it was her who did the music/melody. Good job.

God Bless Roy

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 06/27/19 07:17 AM.

'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1154616 - 06/27/19 07:58 AM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,752
MFB III Offline
Top 100 Poster
MFB III  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,752
ohio
Hey Roy I like the raw emotion of your female vocalist, and the music is a perfect match fpr the story she tells in your words. It sets a mood that a lot of us deal with daily leaving our guitars orphaned for 40 to 60 hours a week while we chase dead presidents just to pay for the chance a being a musician and making it big.That's probably why the call it a PUNCH clock. it is frustrating to hear music by my peers that far exceeds anything out thiere in the industry of POP PULP Crap. I am so sorry to hear about Helen. It is crippling to lose a lifelong love, and quite a bit like having a piece of your heart and soul ripped away. My condolences to you. But I am sure she is enjoying your continued work on the other side with a big smile.

#1154618 - 06/27/19 09:08 AM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,302
Dave Rice Offline
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Dave Rice  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,302
Texas
Morning, Roy: (...and Jane, by default)

Roy, it's so good to see you posting again. You have been missed here at JPF more than you'll ever know. Thanks, Jane... for dragging Roy back into the "limelight" again. This is a really good start for a co-write.

I listened and thought the mix needs a little "adjusting" to get Jane's vocal "pulled up a notch or two." It is often "drowned-out" by the music. Great "first take" and I look forward to hearing what the two of you do with it. I won't suggest any lyric changes... you have some previously posted thoughts and ideas to consider.

Wishing both of you success and all things good! ----Dave

#1154621 - 06/27/19 10:10 AM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,125
Vicarn Offline
Top 40 Poster
Vicarn  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,125
UK
Hi Roy. Good to see you're posting again.

For me, production is ok but needs more work both lyrically and vocally.

Lyrically, your first verse sets up the story of a normal working guy and the chorus tags on informatively and that is fine.
Then there's the part about relaxing in a chair (anything special about that particular chair?) taking the pain away without explaining what the pain is.
There is also a period of dreaming of superstardom without mentioning a reason (Is he an ex pro something or a pub singer?).
The attempt to insert humour with "bill is my lender's name" seems disconnected and is a dead end.

You may also work a little on the rhythm of the lyrics and or change the rhythm away from "swing".
The emphasis on "when" in "when .... mum and dad ..." sounds odd.
Like it's been hung out to dry.
"When mum and dad" sung straight could sound better.

Needs a little meat on the bones.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1154623 - 06/27/19 11:36 AM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: MFB III]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Originally Posted by MFB III
Hey Roy I like the raw emotion of your female vocalist, and the music is a perfect match fpr the story she tells in your words. It sets a mood that a lot of us deal with daily leaving our guitars orphaned for 40 to 60 hours a week while we chase dead presidents just to pay for the chance a being a musician and making it big.That's probably why the call it a PUNCH clock. it is frustrating to hear music by my peers that far exceeds anything out thiere in the industry of POP PULP Crap. I am so sorry to hear about Helen. It is crippling to lose a lifelong love, and quite a bit like having a piece of your heart and soul ripped away. My condolences to you. But I am sure she is enjoying your continued work on the other side with a big smile.

Thanks so much MFB for stopping by and giving our song a look/ listen.

You make some good points and thanks so much for your kind thoughts on my loss. I also think that Helen is smiling down on me.

Will bare your comments in mind as I work on a re-write

God Bless from me and from Helen

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 06/27/19 03:26 PM.

'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1154628 - 06/27/19 01:28 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,878
Michael Zaneski Offline
Top 50 Poster
Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,878
California
Originally Posted by Roy Cooper
Hi folks and friends. This is a co-write that me and JaneK have done together.
It's also my first song since my Helen passed away and she was always my sounding board. I valued her opinions so much.

Now it's up to you to add your thoughts and suggestions before we go to the next stage.

God Bless to all and thanks in advance

Roy

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13891673


Gone is the wonderland (c) Roy Cooper / Jane Karwoski 2019

Verse 1:
As I get up for work
It's early in the day
Wish I could stay in bed
But I have a bill to pay

chorus 1:
Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,
When Mum and Dad where there
To lead me by the hand

verse 2:
It's late when I get home
Been working hard all day
Relaxing in my chair
Takes my pain away

verse 3:
And when I fall asleep
I now dream of going far
Touring around the world
Become a superstar

chorus 1:
Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,
When Mum and Dad where there
To lead me by the hand

bridge
I worked all week paydays here again
Borrowed money for my music so I can't complain
Though paying a 'Bill' is always such a pain
Because 'Bill' ......... is my lenders name

chorus
Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,
When Mum and Dad where there
To lead me by the hand

Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,

Gone is the wonderland,
I dreamt of as a child,





Hi Roy and Jane,

Jane, very nice musical composition.

Roy,

It seems you're trying serve two tonally different themes here, 1) lamenting the loss of innocence/chidhood and 2) a "play-on-words" novelty song like "My Girl Bill" --it's a valiant attempt, but I think the "Bill" idea could easily be sacrificed for the larger, more meaningful lament over the loss of childhood idea. The inclusion of the "Bill" stuff just weakens the impact of the loss-of-childhood theme, for me.

I believe the chorus seems to be something I could imagine from a girl fresh outta school, and newly in the job market, but there's no "feel" for that or indication of that in the lyric. The lyric really needs to impress upon the listener this is a YOUNG person, or it just would just seem odd that a mature grown-up would want to be "led by the hand" by mom and dad so much--which isn't a bad thing in a song to say--only it would need reinforcement from other lines in the lyric, to make it a strong idea that fits, imho.

So maybe think of a re-write with more lines that could come from a young woman. Maybe she's working at her first job?

Or keeping the Bill stuff? I think you'd need to tighten the language leading up to the punch line and create a lighter mood with the job stuff, planting humorous lines and thoughts along the way. You might have to lose the chorus idea, cuz I think it might be too dark for a novelty song that would just focus on the "Bill" idea.

Trying to keep both themes seems like a bad choice to me, cuz it seems like the two ideas want different "tones" to make them work. As it is, the song shifts tone late in the bridge, and I as a listener feel a little bit "had."

All in all, a little tweaking could make this much stronger, I think.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 06/27/19 02:03 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1154632 - 06/27/19 03:38 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Dave Rice]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Morning, Roy: (...and Jane, by default)

Roy, it's so good to see you posting again. You have been missed here at JPF more than you'll ever know. Thanks, Jane... for dragging Roy back into the "limelight" again. This is a really good start for a co-write.

I listened and thought the mix needs a little "adjusting" to get Jane's vocal "pulled up a notch or two." It is often "drowned-out" by the music. Great "first take" and I look forward to hearing what the two of you do with it. I won't suggest any lyric changes... you have some previously posted thoughts and ideas to consider.

Wishing both of you success and all things good! ----Dave


Thanks Dave for having a read/listen. Pleased that you liked our first draft co-write. Now comes more work...lol
Mind you my friend, after the number of co-writes I have had over the years, I knew what to expect.

Yes please watch this space for re-writes

God Bless to you and family

Roy


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1154634 - 06/27/19 03:43 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Vicarn]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Originally Posted by Vicarn
Hi Roy. Good to see you're posting again.

For me, production is ok but needs more work both lyrically and vocally.

Lyrically, your first verse sets up the story of a normal working guy and the chorus tags on informatively and that is fine.
Then there's the part about relaxing in a chair (anything special about that particular chair?) taking the pain away without explaining what the pain is.
There is also a period of dreaming of superstardom without mentioning a reason (Is he an ex pro something or a pub singer?).
The attempt to insert humour with "bill is my lender's name" seems disconnected and is a dead end.

You may also work a little on the rhythm of the lyrics and or change the rhythm away from "swing".
The emphasis on "when" in "when .... mum and dad ..." sounds odd.
Like it's been hung out to dry.
"When mum and dad" sung straight could sound better.

Needs a little meat on the bones.

Vic


Thanks Vic for having a read/listen. You make some great points in your comments that I will definitely use in a re-write.
You have always been good at spotting blips Vic and I do appreciate it very much.

God Bless to you and family

Roy


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1154635 - 06/27/19 03:47 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,053
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski


Hi Roy and Jane,

Jane, very nice musical composition.

Roy,

It seems you're trying serve two tonally different themes here, 1) lamenting the loss of innocence/chidhood and 2) a "play-on-words" novelty song like "My Girl Bill" --it's a valiant attempt, but I think the "Bill" idea could easily be sacrificed for the larger, more meaningful lament over the loss of childhood idea. The inclusion of the "Bill" stuff just weakens the impact of the loss-of-childhood theme, for me.

I believe the chorus seems to be something I could imagine from a girl fresh outta school, and newly in the job market, but there's no "feel" for that or indication of that in the lyric. The lyric really needs to impress upon the listener this is a YOUNG person, or it just would just seem odd that a mature grown-up would want to be "led by the hand" by mom and dad so much--which isn't a bad thing in a song to say--only it would need reinforcement from other lines in the lyric, to make it a strong idea that fits, imho.

So maybe think of a re-write with more lines that could come from a young woman. Maybe she's working at her first job?

Or keeping the Bill stuff? I think you'd need to tighten the language leading up to the punch line and create a lighter mood with the job stuff, planting humorous lines and thoughts along the way. You might have to lose the chorus idea, cuz I think it might be too dark for a novelty song that would just focus on the "Bill" idea.

Trying to keep both themes seems like a bad choice to me, cuz it seems like the two ideas want different "tones" to make them work. As it is, the song shifts tone late in the bridge, and I as a listener feel a little bit "had."

All in all, a little tweaking could make this much stronger, I think.

Mike


Thanks Mike for having a read/listen.
You also make some good points that I will bare in mind in the re-write.

God Bless to you and family

Roy

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 06/27/19 03:47 PM.

'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1154636 - 06/27/19 04:22 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,125
Vicarn Offline
Top 40 Poster
Vicarn  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,125
UK
You're welcome Roy.
I hope my comments didn't sound too mean and of course I could be wrong on all counts.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.

http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/vicarnold2

http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold

#1154639 - 06/27/19 05:41 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 79
JaneK Offline
Serious Contributor
JaneK  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 79
Bakersfield, CA
Hello Japov, MFB III, Dave, Vic and Mike,

Thanks so much for listening to our first collaboration. Your comments are very helpful to me as working long-distance is a very unique process. Roy has been doing this for a while and I am the amateur here so you will have to bare with me on my quirky productions. Hopefully I will get better as I gain more experience, and this is a great way to get it and have fun in the process.

Jane

#1154644 - 06/27/19 07:27 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 144
JAPOV Online content
Serious Contributor
JAPOV  Online Content
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 144
North Alabama
First draft is always "quirky" lol. You guys are off to a great start though! Nice voice! smile


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1154655 - 06/27/19 11:31 PM Re: My first co-write since Helen [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 79
JaneK Offline
Serious Contributor
JaneK  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 79
Bakersfield, CA
Thanks very much Japov.


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