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#1153654 - 05/31/19 09:27 AM Songwriter's Junction  
Joined: Jul 2017
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ckiphen Offline
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- Select One - houston, texas...
A new songwriting site just getting up and going. If you're feeling lost in the crowd over here give it a try. Obviously this is a great site but the sheer numbers of members might leave some of you feeling lost. Join up and be heard!

#1153676 - 06/01/19 01:32 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Originally Posted by ckiphen
A new songwriting site just getting up and going. If you're feeling lost in the crowd over here give it a try. Obviously this is a great site but the sheer numbers of members might leave some of you feeling lost. Join up and be heard!


It is one thing to promote another site, it is entirely different to tell members to leave our site. So now going forward "Songwriters Junction" will be considered a spam/troll site. Congrats on your effort.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

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#1153684 - 06/01/19 06:45 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Aug 2002
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Everett Adams Offline
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Everett Adams  Offline
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,NL Canada
Sheep stealer.

#1153718 - 06/02/19 03:21 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
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JaneK Offline
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Bakersfield, CA
I don't feel lost in the crowd here. I feel quite the opposite.

Everyone is really nice here and I am a newbie.

#1153732 - 06/03/19 09:43 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
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Gary E. Andrews Online content
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Gary E. Andrews  Online Content
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Yes, I would plead on behalf of SongwriterJunction that the member was simply trying to expand the possibilities for JustPlainFolks members and SongwriterJunction members to get their words and music out to the world, perhaps finding the desired and required feedback to improve their comprehension of the craft and inspiration that drives us all. I have carried things from SJ here, and things from JPF to SJ. I gave the URLs of both sites to the clerk at the grocery store yesterday. I'm thinking of advertising in what passes for our local paper to put these sites into my more immediate community of potential whatever-I-might-find-here.

ckiphen is a prolific Lyricist, as is evident in his posts, and seeks all outlets, I am sure, to get his works into the universe of possibilities.

JPF does seem to 'go dead' at times. So does SJ. So did www.Songwriter101.com Having other outlets keeps Jack from being a dull boy.

JPF has quite a viewership and is by far superior in getting product before the eyes of potential 'consumers', perhaps some simply willing to lay down the coin of the realm in exchange for your product, perhaps someone desiring to 'cover' your Song, maybe 'cut' it, maybe 'release' it to market where it could bring you fame, perhaps infamy, and fortune.

So I plead that we not blame the SongwriterJunction site for what may have been a poor choice of words by a member who, I am confident, bore no ill will for JPF, who, indeed, a JPF member for two years, has no doubt found a 'home' at JPF for his prolific output.

With the usual spirit of in-this-together, let us go forth and multiply our alliances and explorations in the wonders of our art.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1153734 - 06/03/19 12:44 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Nov 2011
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90 dB Offline
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90 dB  Offline
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Florida
“So I plead that we not blame the SongwriterJunction site for what may have been a poor choice of words by a member who, I am confident, bore no ill will for JPF, who, indeed, a JPF member for two years, has no doubt found a 'home' at JPF for his prolific output.”



06-03-2019
Gary E. Andrews
Posted on Just Plain Folks




“Feeling like a refugee I wandered the broken streets and abandoned threads of Just Plain Folks. It's okay. But I miss the clean format of Songwriter101. JTP had a lot of pharmaceutical ads when the closure of 101 left me wandering the campus like a junkie, and finally ran me off and sent me out looking for a new playground. I called it Just Pharmaceutical Folks. But it's not any more active than 101 was at times. I guess we go through phases when we're creating and sharing and when we're not. I can accept that as the norm.  Today I accidentally put in www.m and the old musesmuse site popped into the browser. I may go explore there again too. Meanwhile, I'll try not to dysfunction here at the Junction. I carried Larry Beaird's video from the Junction to JPF to see if it sparked some study. I don't think it did. I'll try to go there and bring back the list of Songs he spoke of and the youtube links in case y'all might care to be studious. Thanks, Gavin, for taking in us...graduates. Definitely graduates.”


04-29-2019
Gary E. Andrews
Posted on Songwriter's Junction



“I've tried mentioning SongwriterJunction over on Just Plain Pharmaceuticals, oops! Folks, as a way to maybe get a visitor, and possibly a member. Propagating things from here to there, there to here, might work. JPF goes dead, just like 101 did from time to time. I remember a visitor or new member, probably back on 101, who said, "It's nice to find a website with 'current' posts." In other words those posts from 1967 are inspiring! lol”

05-22-2019
Gary E. Edwards
Posted on Songwriter's Junction






A poor choice of words, indeed.



Regards,


Bob

#1153735 - 06/03/19 02:20 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: May 2017
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA
Can we please put a plug in this? I'm the admin at Songwriter Junction, which I set up a little while ago specifically as a home for those who were displaced when the BMI-run Songwriter 101 forum was closed down. I had many friends there and wanted a way for us all to stay in touch. Not everyone wanted to move over here, which was actually my recommendation to them, so I looked into how to set up a forum to continue that community and ended up doing so. I have never tried to plug the site on here, nor will I mention it again outside this thread. I think that Carroll was misguided, when he started this topic and especially in the way he phrased his post. Even though he didn't suggest that people should leave this site, it's still not what I would consider good form to start a topic specifically recommending another forum.

For the record, Carroll is a member at Songwriter Junction (and a valued one, as he is a great lyricist and very nice person), but has nothing to do with the site beyond that. He was only trying to help and got it wrong. It happens. Songwriter Junction is not a spam or troll site any more than this wonderful place is. I have recommended JPF to many people looking for a songwriter community, including on other forums when appropriate, and will continue to do so.

As for Gary's post. I assume he was referring to spam posts about pharmaceuticals that found their way on here. I know that was a scourge of the old SW101 forum and indeed those folks are always looking to attack any forum they can.

#1153737 - 06/03/19 03:11 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Nov 2011
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90 dB Offline
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90 dB  Offline
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Florida
"Even though he didn't suggest that people should leave this site...."


"If you're feeling lost in the crowd over here give it a try."

Sure sounds like he did, Gavin.


As for Gary, my reading comprehension is just fine. I can read what he actually wrote here, and on your site.


Facts are funny things. They have a life of their own once in print.


Regards,


Bob

#1153738 - 06/03/19 03:18 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: May 2017
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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OK, I can see how it could be read that way. I didn't. You can visit one forum without leaving another. Either way, I don't think it was appropriate.

#1153740 - 06/03/19 04:46 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
Joined: Jul 2017
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ckiphen Offline
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ckiphen  Offline
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- Select One - houston, texas...
Don't blame songwriter junction! It's all on me! Wasn't trying to steal members just give an alternative . Obviously this is a Great site evidenced by the enormous membership.if you feel i overstepped boundaries remove me and i won't be offended but this was in no way the fault of songwriters junction.

#1153759 - 06/03/19 09:45 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Dec 2006
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Gary E. Andrews Online content
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Gary E. Andrews  Online Content
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Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
Quotes from db 90, Bob.

"As for Gary, my reading comprehension is just fine. I can read what he actually wrote here, and on your site.

05-22-2019
Gary E. Edwards
Posted on Songwriter's Junction

A poor choice of words, indeed.

Regards,
Bob"

I'm a poet, a prose artist, a babbling wordsmith. 'Just Pharmaceutical Folks'? That's a joke. It was funny to me. It should be funny to anyone with a sense of humor. You see the initials stay the same. And there were numerous drug ads down the left column. It was funny. It was hilarious.
But the grownups here aren't just looking for an argument. We're trying to discuss a matter of interest to us. Those who just want to troll the conversation can do more harm than good. I always liked it when someone showed me their true colors. It's a good thing to 'have someone's number'. That way you're not disappointed when they show those colors again. And, thanks to reading comprehension, I've got that Gary E. Edwards guy's number!


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1153763 - 06/04/19 02:24 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Mar 2010
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Cheyenne Offline
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Cheyenne  Offline
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Posts: 225
Florida U.S.A.
Sorry I did not mean to post on this thread

Last edited by Cheyenne; 06/04/19 02:31 AM.

One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1153803 - 06/05/19 06:06 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 357
Alek Offline
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Alek  Offline
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Ukraine
Hi all,
and thanks to everybody for this thread:
now I know where to join after SW101 is closed down

#1153850 - 06/05/19 08:36 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Dec 2006
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Gary E. Andrews Online content
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Gary E. Andrews  Online Content
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Hello Alek. Welcome to Just Plain Folks. (Google Translate)

Привіт Алек. Ласкаво просимо до просто звичайних людей.

Well that didn't work! LOL

Last edited by Gary E. Andrews; 06/05/19 08:37 PM.

There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1153892 - 06/07/19 12:53 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Posts: 18,809
Indianapolis, IN USA
I didn't ban anyone. But I did point out legitimate sites come here and contact me to ask permission to promote their site. I have requirements when they do that, among other things, they include any costs or requirements to join and that sort of thing. However, when we have a similar site trolling for new members, we call it out so that when people search their name, outsiders can see what's up. We didn't go to their site and ask people to leave there so that their stuff actually gets noticed by people. We don't have nearly the number of posters we once did (no message board does, which is why most big companies got rid of their message boards and others shut down completely) but we still get significant traffic seeing/hearing/reading posts.

As for that week described in the posts shared above, we had a bunch of targeted attacks from Chinese Spam Farms, and we had over 100K fake accounts attempted to be set up to mass spam our site. It cost thousands of dollars to shut it down. A couple accounts made it through and when I was out of town, they unleashed a mass spam effort. Facebook et. al. have large teams of millionaire software engineers who keep on top of all this stuff. We don't.

It's a free site and a free org that is 34 years old. In the 20+ years we've had a message board, the entire amount of spam that has made it on our site is tiny. It sucks when long time members who know better, instead of perhaps sending me a message to tell me there was a problem, they instead go on to another site and paint a picture like that one issue was a regular thing. That site will have it's day in the barrel, and it will be interesting to see how much better they handle it. Or perhaps they don't get the traffic we get so no one will notice them. I've never heard of or been to their site and have no idea who runs it.

In our history we've only had one other site where it's members or their staff come here and disrupt our site. Their efforts did them no favors and though they all thought it was hilarious on their site, which was a pretty vile, hate filled group in general, no one ever really gave a crap about them or their site that mattered in the real world. One of our large sponsors at the time said their reputation was that it was just a bunch of idiots making money off of other idiots who liked to sniff the farts of their "stars" there. This was the second time it has happened in over 20 years. I don't forget, but I do forgive sometimes if it is deserved. We'll see where it goes going forward.

As for people here who post negative stuff about us on other sites, I've had people tell me already, but I didn't see what was actually written in this case, so thanks to 90 db for sharing the actual text. It is what it is, so now it's here in the open and we move on. Plenty of people have criticized me or the org. in the past, that is par for the course. But sincere issues are usually handled directly, not under the protection of another site behind our backs. So now we know that too.

Moving on...


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1153895 - 06/07/19 01:37 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,344
Gary E. Andrews Online content
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Gary E. Andrews  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
Please accept my apologies for joining this conversation. I doubt it would have gone on as long as it has had I not thought rational discussion and civil exchange could resolve it.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1153914 - 06/08/19 03:32 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Indianapolis, IN USA
Gary,

So we are the irrational people? I didn't post stuff about you somewhere I know you don't go painting you in a really negative light when I knew that was not who you were. You did that.

A couple days of a spammer coming on while I was out of town and you brand us as spam filled? When you saw it did you attempt to alert me that there was a problem? No... no you didn't. Was it gone minutes after someone did? Yes... yes it was.

But for some it is better to bitch about something elsewhere in a gossip post than an attempt to solve it here. That might take 15 seconds of your time.

The rest of your comments I had heard about from others and they only show that you know little about what goes on here and why, or on message boards in general.

I did learn something useful here though. If people are stressing out over the old unused chapter/city/region boards project which had to be cancelled when I fell ill, perhaps I should hide them until later. So it wasn't all a complete waste of time. And if people care about the glitched emails that say "1969" on the very last pages of some of the boards, well, if your schedule is empty enough to notice that, I really can't help you.

It takes so little to trigger people to complain these days. I can't imagine if we actually did something wrong. I would have appreciated (but did NOT ask for or even want) a sincere apology, but one that takes a backhanded swipe at us yet again is BS. I truly thought you were better than that Gary and anything I would say about you I would say directly to your online face in the open or via direct PM, long before I would say it elsewhere. As a self described "wordsmith" who half the time calls us JTP, the "joke" really wasn't very well written. Here, let me try:

"I posted my lyrics on JPF the other day and I got some great advice. It said "if I was having problems where it counts, I should take this drug they were offering and it would fix everything for me." Sure it was spam, but wouldn't you know that I tried it and my lyrics still stink, but my sex life is great" -Rimshot.

I had already forgotten about reports on what you were saying elsewhere (including where it took place, and I usually hear about others as well, not that I am asking for more of it, I am not) it just comes with the territory no matter what you do good or bad, and because I am super busy, but you don't want to let it go. So again I will say:

Moving on...


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1153915 - 06/08/19 07:40 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,344
Gary E. Andrews Online content
Top 200 Poster
Gary E. Andrews  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,344
Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
Brian, this confirms that you endorse allegations against me despite my attestations that there is no malice or derision in my posts.

They were not private messages but public posts, that, again, I thought were just humorous ways of conversing.

If the allegations against me had any truth in them I would have been covert about it.

As a newly returned JPF visitor I saw the pharmaceutical ads and assumed they were not unusual, as I've seen them on other sites as well, unrelenting. Thinking myself a clever boy I took JPF and recognized that the P could stand for pharmaceutical.

Now you are publicly pillorying me, endorsing the allegation that I did so with malice. As a visitor I didn't know the ads were unusual and might need to be reported by me, when for days so many long-time members did not seem concerned enough to do so.

You've nitpicked your way through, finding JTP errors, and made your decision. You have a right to your opinion. You own the site so you have judicial authority, and must have to make judgments about what happens here.

Again, my apologies to all for this extremely negative experience. It won't happen again.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1153921 - 06/08/19 10:34 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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ckiphen Offline
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ckiphen  Offline
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- Select One - houston, texas...
My Apologies as well. Poor choice of words on my part. Will not happen again.

#1154380 - 06/20/19 04:40 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Online content
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JAPOV  Online Content
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North Alabama
Good Grief!!! Drama everywhere I go! If Marc Allen Barnett is here as well then I will seriously just quit all this juvenile crap! WHERE ARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY AND ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN SONGWRITING AROUND HERE!?!?

Last edited by JAPOV; 06/20/19 08:09 PM.

JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1154381 - 06/20/19 05:03 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: JAPOV]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,042
PA
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Good Grief!!! Drama everywhere I go! If Marc Allen Barnett is here as well then I will seriously just quit all this juvenile crap! WHERE ARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY AND ACTIVELY ENGAGED SONGWRITING AROUND HERE!?!?


Welcome aboard Japov! Many here do take their songwriting seriously. Give it time till you meet everyone.

Best, John smile

#1154383 - 06/20/19 05:18 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 148
JAPOV Online content
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JAPOV  Online Content
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Posts: 148
North Alabama
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by JAPOV
Good Grief!!! Drama everywhere I go! If Marc Allen Barnett is here as well then I will seriously just quit all this juvenile crap! WHERE ARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY AND ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN SONGWRITING AROUND HERE!?!?


Welcome aboard Japov! Many here do take their songwriting seriously. Give it time till you meet everyone.

Best, John smile


I appreciate that John smile

Last edited by JAPOV; 06/20/19 08:08 PM.

JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1154420 - 06/21/19 04:52 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Indianapolis, IN USA
What a shock someone from Songwriter Junction who just signed up at the time of this post (with it in his footer no less) gets upset, not at some random post, but when bad behavior is pointed out by someone else shilling for Songwriter Junction. Ironically he is ALSO trolling, so it simply reinforces the point of this entire post and after it had died down perhaps to obscurity, now all the index bots will see it once again active and make it more prominent in searches. I didn't start it, someone supporting Songwriter Junction did. If these two examples indicate what you guys are all about then perhaps a warning is well deserved.

Anyone else connected to Songwriter Junction want to chime in as well?

So far.. not so good.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1154423 - 06/21/19 09:15 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Jun 2019
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JAPOV Online content
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JAPOV  Online Content
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North Alabama
"Also" trolling.....? You don't know the history Brian... But this sort of thing is precisely the excuse that troll would need to come over HERE and that's the last thing I want!


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1154429 - 06/22/19 04:06 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Indianapolis, IN USA
Tony, (If that is your name, who knows right?)

So what was your purpose of posting here on this specific thread? What positive outcome did you expect? You already knew well and good what it was about, that it was going on and that others had commented on it elsewhere. (Yes, people post on both places and people tell me what's up on all the other sites out there, who is bitching about this or that, who is outright lying or backstabbing, that sort of thing). So you thought you would come here, put in your footer promoting a competing site (not allowed in our Site Rules which you agreed to follow when you signed up) unless permission is asked for and given or because I already know them and know it is a site people can trust and which doesn't have animus towards anyone. I didn't go in and delete it, I will give you a chance to do it first.

You're using an anonymous user ID even though most people here are either using their real name or have long ago clearly made themselves known and out of branding asked if they could keep their well worn pen name. I recall a massive troll who was very active here for many years under his real name. He posted some serious attacks against me on the site and many threats of violence in personal messages. He's also the only guy who ever used "North Alabama" as his location. Yeah, nothing new under the sun. "III"

If you are the same guy, I would have respected and appreciated it if you had just said you wanted to come back on, and move forward. I would have been fine with that. I've had death threats, relentless nasty attacks and worse (yes, worse) over the years, but I learned long before the likes of Twitter, when you're dealing with a lot of people there will be some bad apples and there will be plenty of angry people who can reflect and get better over time.

If you're someone else, you sure don't get or deserve any benefit of the doubt while being anonymous. That is where trolls hide out. Decent real people tend to be happy to let people know who they are. Plenty of them can be found here. We do tell youngish females that it is never a good idea to use more than your real first name, but I have never once had a female troll the site or threaten my life or my family. So there's that.

Oh, and I got an argument that the other site was created to avoid a "troll" here. If he wanted, he would already (or might already) be on the other site. I don't think the person in question has been a problem for a long time and all I really ask for is that people don't stir crap up that involves personal attacks, threats, angry words and so on. That doesn't mean people can't disagree or argue passionately about a topic. Without that what is the point in the end? With open communication comes disagreement. Arguments allow both sides to be heard and others a chance to chime in or decide for themselves. Absent attacks and absent spamming products or sites or companies, I am pretty open to whatever here and they fact we're still going more than 20 years later online indicates I must be doing something right. I just try to keep the poison off the site.

Over time, if they grow much, the other site you covet will have it's own share of all these problems soon enough. Enjoy it now, it is coming your way with any level of success have no doubt.

In the meantime, does anyone else want to troll us, er... promote this other site more? If so, since they never made an effort to ask or represent their entity upfront, the rate for advertising on our site is (trust me) more than you can afford. I don't just let anyone advertise here. I think that is pretty evident over the years. Even our long term partners for DECADES were not allowed to post something here without my direct involvement. Of course I never had to worry about them in the first place.

Perhaps this is the response you hoped for, if it is, congrats. People who know me know I don't pull punches and I don't back down to this kind of crap. But it seems no matter how much I am trying to move on from this, people want to keep it up.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1154430 - 06/22/19 06:48 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 148
JAPOV Online content
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JAPOV  Online Content
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North Alabama
Wow Brian...... Where to begin...

1- I've been JAPOV for more than 30 years. I grew up on military bases where there’s an acronym for everything... I was JAPOV before beepers! As an 8th grader I thought it was clever lol. Anyway, it stuck so Google it. My name is Anthony Wayne Williams Jr and I'm not hiding from anybody!
2- Purpose? The irony is that I came here to get away from a troll that I absolutely can not stand! You, for whatever reason, have assumed an awful lot about me Brian. I responded to this thread simply because both the name and title were familiar. My initial response to this thread was perfectly honest considering I had only been here 10 minutes!
3- Footer comment? No problem, all you had to do was ask.
4- Death threats? Really? That seriously makes me wonder about YOU! As a military brat and Vet I'm from just about everywhere Brian, but I'm currently in North Alabama just like my bio says. I hope that’s not too close for comfort....
5- "the other site was created to avoid a "troll" here".....? One of us is confused Brian. As far as I'm concerned "The Junction" only exists because trolls destroyed SW101... One in particular, speaking of salesmen, I still wish to get away from! Furthermore, I’ve been well acquainted with JPF and several people here for many years now BECAUSE of SW101!
6- I'm well aware of how just one individual can suddenly polarize and divide an otherwise peaceful and long functioning community. I witnessed it happen at SW101 and frankly I blame that one individual for its ultimate demise. I don’t blame you a bit for not allowing individuals to promote their "services" on your site, that’s good policy!

On a side note, I’ve also known Carroll and Gavin for several years now and, for what it’s worth to you Brian, I know that their intentions here were never sinister. Gavin is simply proud of his new site, as he should be, and simply wishes to take up where SW101 left off. It's truly a shame that you don’t seem to realize that.

Tony


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1154432 - 06/22/19 09:24 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 225
Cheyenne Offline
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Florida U.S.A.
HI TONY was this person actually being nasty to your good self ??

I have always found Brian Austin to be very fair and tolerant , are you stating that the

Junction is no more ?? I dont belive SW101 was ended through any individual

were you attacked personally ?? if so that is sad , but maybe you are reading

comments the wrong way ?? There are honest critiques by some who maybe a little

more experienced than the average beginner, but surely that is a lot different than

venomous responses ?? who see nothing at all in some ones hard work ?


One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1154434 - 06/22/19 09:45 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 615
Gavin Sinclair Online content
Top 500 Poster
Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 615
Conover, North Carolina, USA
I mentioned before in this topic that I am the administrator for Songwriter Junction. The reasons I started it are further up this thread. I didn't start this topic. I didn't ask anyone to post on it. I wish they would all stop, and I wish people would stop responding to them. Brian, can't you just take it down? It contains nothing of any interest or importance to songwriting. If you do that, nobody will see it and, for whatever reason, poke the fire. Let's face it, nobody who finds their way here via Google or any other means is going to come away with a positive impression. If I am a spammer or troll, then I'm really bad at it. Please make this go away.

#1154435 - 06/22/19 10:08 AM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: Cheyenne]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 148
JAPOV Online content
Serious Contributor
JAPOV  Online Content
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 148
North Alabama
Originally Posted by Cheyenne
HI TONY was this person actually being nasty to your good self ??

I have always found Brian Austin to be very fair and tolerant , are you stating that the

Junction is no more ?? I dont belive SW101 was ended through any individual

were you attacked personally ?? if so that is sad , but maybe you are reading

comments the wrong way ?? There are honest critiques by some who maybe a little

more experienced than the average beginner, but surely that is a lot different than

venomous responses ?? who see nothing at all in some ones hard work ?


I have absolutely no interest in the old argument that my response to this would dredge up. Besides, Gavin has a very valid point. Perspective is everything. From his perspective this entire thread is simply due to a grossly misfortunate misunderstanding and I happen to agree.


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856
#1154454 - 06/22/19 08:38 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Indianapolis, IN USA
Tony,

When you are connected to a wide range of people, night after night in real life, face to face around the world as well as online, you'll learn that no matter who or what you are you, some % of people will dislike it strongly. Sometimes it is politics, sometimes it is preferences you have, sometimes beliefs, sometimes it's the color of shoes you're wearing. In other words, cast a wide net, you'll bring up some garbage along with the good stuff.

Add to that the passive/aggressive tendencies of people with no real power, standing or voice in the real world who vent their anger at the world on an almost random target. They may think someone else has power or popularity or a platform they wish they had and they take all that pent up energy and they unleash it somewhere, and if you interact widely enough with people, that target is far more likely to be you than someone less accessible to them. The internet makes almost anyone accessible. Combine that with visibility in a particular field and that's all "they" need. Who is they? Well, it might be a random customer against a clerk in a store, it might be an athlete that a fan projects their dissatisfaction onto, it could be the teacher of a kid or the tallest girl or shortest boy in the class. In the old days, bullies and thugs often came in predictable circumstances where a smart person could insulate themselves if they were cautious enough at the riskiest times. Now people are reachable in all directions, at all times and can find themselves in the cross-hairs of someone, often unstable and unhappy, if not overall, at least in the moment of contact. View any comment field online in just about any discussion. We've weeded people out carefully for decades here so the bullying is kept to a minimum. The entire community usually steps in. Other times they take sides, some with the instigator, some with the target. Those are the most dangerous kinds. Most people can simply ignore an annoying but universally disliked entity. But what happens when that person either has followers, or goes up against someone else who does. One is right, one is wrong, but one or both have their own online "gangs." That destroys communities. But it usually doesn't result in death threats. Those are often reserved for the outlier who has no followers, no gang to rush to their side. They have no camaraderie to dissipate their anger. They feel both the victim and hero of their own story. Those people can be very unstable and very dangerous and they are out there. Way more of them than you've been fortunate enough to learn about based on your comment.

Thankfully in many cases if you ignore them they dry up and blow away. But some MEAN it. A good friend of mine in the industry known to most on this site and across independent musicians was getting constant death threats from one such unstable person. Like others in the past, he hoped if he just ignored him, he'd move on to someone else. It didn't happen. He ramped up the threats to the point that he started naming times and places where he would enact his threats. It got so serious that my friend contacted the police in both his own hometown as well as at an upcoming event he was set to speak at. He also spent a tremendous amount of money to hire private security when advised to do so by the police. As the date of the event approached, he considered cancelling, but by doing so, it would simply invite more of the same. (I have been there. I toured the US, Canada and Europe for over 20 years doing very public events with hundreds of people a night involved. Threats in these circumstances where people name a time and place to confront you in advance become pretty stressful). The day of the event he gets a call from the San Francisco police telling him he didn't need to worry about the threat. The police had found him dead in his home, with a table full of guns and ammo (all legal in that time/place) and the printed schedule of events my friend would be speaking at underneath the suicide weapon. He had blown his own brains out the morning of the event. They said it appeared he was prepping for a mass attack. Surely this is a worst case example right? Well not exactly. It happens for real. And in this case, and the reason I am so aware of all the details is that 1. I was also speaking at that event and 2. I had also been threatened by the same individual and had also called the police, but in my case it feel on deaf ears completely. But here's the scariest part of it all for me. 3. He was a MEMBER OF THIS BOARD as well. Oddly enough, he was publicly liked in his interactions. The threats all happened out of the public eye. He was also a member of most the other popular boards at the same time (such as Muses Muse, TAXI and others). I don't believe in identifying mass gunmen or troll threats as it gives future ones who seek notoriety exactly what they want. But people would be shocked to know who it was as some people here interacted with him (his profile is no longer active). Fortunately he removed himself from the scene before he hurt others.

I have received very similar threats of violence from other people over the years. One used the description "North Alabama" as his location. His name would also certainly be known among people here and he's still alive as far as I know. He could still be you for all I know. Because you now claim to be who you are doesn't guarantee anything. Real people lie to people's faces every day, let alone someone who could be anybody including someone who could be pretending to be Tony for all we know. This isn't about challenging you or casting you in a negative light, you might be a perfectly normal guy. But when you have a family and value their lives and safety, what risk would you be willing to take? How trusting would you be to an anonymous person online? Social media has one small benefit against the many terrible ones. In some cases we see enough of people to allow them to show you who they really are over a long time. There are a handful of people here who could be anyone but at least they have demonstrated over the long haul who they are. Sometimes people ARE real, share their name and are still jerks. But in most cases people do tell you who they are if you listen to them. I don't know you, I don't know anything about you good or bad nor does anyone else unless they know you in real life. You could tell me Tony and be lying or you could say the name of a world famous Country star and be right and simply using an alias here to move about freely to offer advice and enjoy escaping the trappings of fame in a positive way. (They are here as well).

So, I appreciate you extending a hand. I am extremely protective of my family and my organizational family as well. I have demonstrated clearly who I am for over 30 years and built up a reputation among real people in the real world through my actions, words and efforts to help people. I am willing to give you and everyone a chance to do the same. We have site rules that you might have simply said yes to without reading. They aren't there randomly and they aren't legalese, but rather as a well reasoned protection to allow us to last this long in the wild west of the Internet for as long as it has been around. The trolls have always been among us all, and in some cases on a bad day in our own lives, we can all be a bit troll-ish in our interactions with others, myself included. But over the long haul, using your real name and building a meaningful reputation protects us from our own demons. For an anonymous person, no such reputation can or will develop and there is no risk in trolling or threats to a reputation. The same can be said for a website or organization. We have many hundreds of millions of pages of text on this website and collectively it tells a story of who we are as a group and in some cases as individuals. Over time, the same might be demonstrated by the other site in question as well. It got off to a poor start here, but hopefully that will be a blip and better things will come for all .



Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1154457 - 06/22/19 09:46 PM Re: Songwriter's Junction [Re: ckiphen]  
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 148
JAPOV Online content
Serious Contributor
JAPOV  Online Content
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 148
North Alabama
I can certainly relate Brian. In a "creative" forum/atmosphere the competition breeds emotional involvement. Some are emotionally unstable to begin with and just wash out. Others..... Well, the call to "stardom" will drive them crazy. It's the nature of the beast I suppose and, of course, you’re absolutely right to be cautious. Just let me assure you that the only thing dangerous about me is my opinion lol, and I'm glad to hear that you are willing to be patient with "The Junction".


JAPOV is Just Another Point Of View but my friends call me Tony. If you like to sing then I'd like to know ya' smile https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/?bandID=1449856

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