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Hello JPFolks,

I am new and this is my first song posted here on the forum.

This song was professional recorded, mixed and mastered at a Pro Studio in Bakersfield, CA. I wrote the song and performed the vocals on this one but feel at this point it is not where it should be and could be better. The session players hurried along on the performance, and I was told it was not up to par. Your thoughts on it would be much appreciated. Thanks for listening.

Jane (JaneK)





Lyrics:

V1
Rain is coming
I can feel it in my bones
Something tells me
I will live my life alone

Said he is leaving
Heading back to the city
Thought we were going to last
But I don't want your pity-no I don't want your pity

Chorus
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know

Bridge
Take a rest you said
You think it's best
If our love is real
Time will heal

V2
I don't want to cry
When he says goodbye
I'll hold my head up high
I'll dry the tears from my eyes

I won't look back
I'll face it all
Even though it hurts
I won't fall

Chorus
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know

Bridge
It won't be
An easy thing
With all the pain
It will bring

Chorus
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know
When he's coming back
I don't know

Hi Jane:

Glad to get to hear your first JPF song post here on the MP3 Forum. Sounds "Bakersfield" to me... and that is a good thing. I don't know who wore the "Producer's Hat" in the studio... and those can be due to relationships that take years to develop... but don't ever think your vocal is not "up to par." A bit "submerged" in the mix but that is easily fixed.

The story line is not "unique" when describing lovers relationships... (Leaving on a Jet Plane comes to mind) but I liked what I heard and there is no doubt you have a career ahead of you... both as a writer and as a performer... and much of that depends solely on your wants and needs in our over-crowded music world.

Thanks for sharing and best of luck to you with this... and in all your endeavors.

----Dave

Jane, one of the first things I see 'wrong' (and 'wrong' is to use the term loosely) is placement of what you've labeled a Bridge. I'll have to listen again to see if those Stanzas (you have two different ones) are Bridges or would be more appropriately labeled something else.

A Bridge, in my opinion, is a device to renew listener interest, especially when Songwriters fall victim to The Third Verse Curse. They get a Verse I and either go direct to the Chorus, then a Verse II and repeat the Chorus, or they get a Verse I and a Verse II, and then to the Chorus.

Then, they find they can't think of a Verse III to logically complete the story. If they give up, and they often do, they employ a Bridge. The Bridge usually has some pivotal information, making sense in the Lyrical story. It has a Melody of its own, fitting with but different from the Melodies listeners have heard in the Verse/Verses and Chorus. It perks up listeners' ears to hear this third Melody, to get that pivotal information, and then the ear welcomes back the Chorus they've 'learned' in two previous hearings.

In the layout as you present it you have the Melody of Verse I, two Stanzas, eight Lines, then the second Melody of the Chorus*, and then a third Melody for a Bridge. That many variations presented without any Repetition may elude listeners. It may lack Structure. A Song must have 'enough' Repetition to supply Structure they can relate to, and 'enough' Change to keep it interesting. The concept of 'enough' is a judgment call on the part of the first listener, You, the Songwriter.

Ideally, again, my opinion, you would have Verse I, the Chorus, Verse II, the Chorus, THEN a Bridge, if you don't have a Verse III.

My Love Is Taking A Train copyright 2019 by Jane Karwoski
Verse I

(The) Rain is coming
I can feel it in my bones (Your voice drops off. Deliver your Lines as if it is important the listener gets them.)
Something tells me
I will live my life alone

(He) Said (says?) he is leaving (The pronoun, to be the 'actor' for the 'action' of the verb, is extremely important.)
Heading back to the city
(I) Thought we were going to last (pronoun)
But I don't want your pity-no I don't want your pity (I'd delete 'But'. I'd say the line one time and waste no further delay on getting to the Chorus. The 'rule' is, "Don't bore us! Get to the Chorus!" Thanks to a five-second Introductory Movement you're getting there at about 45 seconds in, which is strong.
Your Chorus Melody doesn't quite step up with greater emotional urgency. Lyrically, this is the crux of the matter, the gist of her story. Her Love, of such importance in her life, the feeling being mutual, she thought, is taking a train, leaving her behind. Her disillusionment should be palpable in her voice. She's on the borders of anger, denial, heartache and heartbreak. She should sound like it. That plays into Melody. The timbre of her voice should 'lift', rising in pitch over the level of Verse I where she set the scene for the listener to get what's going on. Now she's to the punchline of the 'joke' of real life.

Your Chorus simply repeats. I think more should be said there. I got this idea,
Chorus
My Love Is Taking A Train.
When or if he's coming back
I don't know.
I stand beside the track.
I curse this old railroad!
When or if he's coming back,
I don't know.
My Love Is Taking A Train."

Chorus
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know

(In the Bridge, below, the Singer-Character speaks directly to the Love-Interest Character (you). In Verse I and the Chorus she spoke to us, the listeners, about 'he'. It may be best to be consistent. Either talk to us or talk to him, throughout the Lyric. Try it both ways. changing all your 'he's to 'you's, or all your 'you's to 'he's. See which one appeals to you more.)

Bridge
Take a rest you said (you? he?)
You think it's best (You? He?)
If our love is real
Time will heal
(The Melody of the Bridge, above, really 'lifts' into that pitch and emotion I would expect in a Chorus. I wonder if it would function better as a Pre-Chorus Lift.)

(To match your Verse II Melody to your Verse I Melody you could count the number of syllables in the words, which probably tells the number of notes in the Melody, and try to match them closely. The listener gets that this is a repeat of the Melody they 'learned' in Verse I, a Structural feature of Repetition they can relate to.)
Verse II
I don't want to cry (5 syllables, 5 notes. How does it compare to Verse I Line 1?)
When he says goodbye (5. Compare to VI Line 2?)
I'll hold my head up high (6)
I'll dry the tears from my eyes (7)

I won't look back (4)
I'll face it all (4)
Even though it hurts (5)
I won't fall (3)

(Verse I syllable/note count: 4 7 4 7 - 5 7 6 7 + the repeat 'pity' Line, 7.
Verse II syll/note count: 5 5 6 7 - 4 4 5 3 and no repeat Line, not following the 'pattern' set in Verse I.
Some wide variation, so the Melody will vary the same way, especially Lines 5 through 8; 5 7 6 7 compared to 4 4 5 3.
This can be a delightful experiment, finding extra words/syllables to increase to match, or cutting words to get the match. It changes Lines, often in delightful ways.)

Chorus (Here's a shorter option. The main thing is to get THE Hook, the title, back in that strategic Last Line position.)
My Love Is Taking A Train.
When or if he's coming back
I don't know.
I stand beside the track
I curse this old railroad!
My Love Is Taking A Train.
. (I wonder if she should stand ON the tracks! LOL. Quite an image! Defying a locomotive.)

Bridge (Again, you may not need this Stanza. Or it may serve as a Pre-Chorus better than a Bridge. Explore. Sing it different ways and see how it appeals to you. Ideally, I'd say, if you use one or the other as a Pre-Chorus, you should use it the same each time, for the sake of memorability, for the benefit of the singer and the listener. If you use both, you might check the syllable/note count to match Melodies more closely.
As a Bridge, this would be the right position, following a Chorus, then followed by a final giving of the Chorus.)
It won't be
An easy thing
With all the pain
It will bring

Chorus
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know
When he's coming back
I don't know

(Your Song gets done at a really Radio-Friendly 3:00 minutes (or so). They like short Songs, leaving more time for commercial ads that pay the bills. Radio play can generate Royalties, Songwriting Royalties, and Publishing Royalties. I think your voice is appealing. You have to keep it up, delivering words as if it is important that she, the Singer-Character, be heard, her words understood to be sure the listener gets the story. It's important to her. And the concept, I feel, is strong. It's not, "My boyfriend is taking a train, and taking his love, my love, our love, with him. It's, "MY Love...Is Taking A Train." I think that has an element of originality to it. You've found a new way to say something many Songs have said.
This may not be your greatest Song. Each Song is a learning experience. And there will always be another Song to be written. After thousands of years Songwriters have not exhausted the possibilities. Keep exploring!)

Hi Jane
A warm welcome to JPF
I like your vocal and the melody and production are fine too.
However the lyric structure is awry when really or usually for this kind of song it should follow the same pattern from verse to verse.
I dont't think 2 bridges are necessary either on this.
Gary has gone through this in some depth . I usually start by reading the lyric and it does jump out at you and i would certainly consider a rewrite if you intend to pitch the song.
Regards
Travis

Thank you much for listening to my song. Unfortunately here in Bakersfield there are no producers. I was the producer and this was my first song I recorded professionally. I agree it needs work (lyrics and structure of melody) and your advice on rewriting the lyrics helped me a lot. I wish I had put a rough draft up on JPfolks before I took it to the studio - Now my decision is whether to keep and rewrite (expensive) or move on. I have more songs to do and I am just learning Pro Tools and the learning curve is steep.

Thanks again for your advice.

Jane K

Post your lyric on forum 3 Jane you'll get advice and encouragement.
Keep at it . Remember the vest writing comes from rewrites!
Regards
Travis

Jane....Here are some of my opinions regarding your song.

You have a pretty voice and can deliver a good sound. That's most of it.
Sometimes in the lower part of your range, your voice starts to lose musicality. Until you develop your vocals more, I suggest writing lyrical melodies that keep you up higher.
The lyrical melody of the song is pretty but reaches forward and backward to the beat in a couple of places and stumbles...to my ear. e.g. towards the end of V1.

I subscribe to the belief that songs need to commence and then break new ground continuously until they end, ultimately delivering a tidy message. Your song says that the singer is love-sad and then says it again and then finishes by saying it. You need to give more information about your characters or look at them with a point of view that will seem like new information. I realize that you included some trains and so forth, but that's cliche and cliche's tend to be less evocative because of their familiarity.

Lastly...Mike Zaneski on this site, imho, would have delivered you a better recording with a much wider variety of instrumentation and attention to detail...for less money.

Please understand that what I wrote is one lay person's opinion.

Martin

You have a very vald point here Martin regarding Mike Zaneski.
Jane he is highly recommended by many
Cheers
Travis

Morning, Jane:

Martin and Travis have beaten me "to the punch" regarding our mutual friend, Mike Zaneski. All of us have used his services in various recordings of our songs or books set to music. I discovered him first and you can hear some of his work by scrolling back through the pages of the MP3 forum. He is reliable, honest with his opinions of song-needs or possible changes, very punctual and more organized than a Swiss watch. In addition to a final MP3 recording including a vocal by him (or by you)... he also provides a high quality instrumental track for your personal use.

Be prepared, though... his service is in high demand at JPF alone... and Heaven only knows how many other sites have discovered him. In other words, be prepared to wait until there is an open slot in his busy schedule. The nicest surprise is the amazingly affordable cost. He has done a dozen recordings of my songs and I treasure each of them. He requires no "up front" money and expects to be paid when the project is complete to your satisfaction.

Any of the three of us (Martin, Travis or me) can provide an e-mail contact point if you care to explore this resource further. Our standard "disclaimer" will advise you that none of us derive any economic benefit from sending potential clients in his direction. In fact, we are actually creating more competition for his availability... but that is part of the benefit of Brian's JPF. We are "all in this together."

Best wishes and best of luck, ----Dave

You have received so much good advice, Jane, that I have noting to add except to say welcome. I look forward to hearing more of your music. It certainly helps to run lyrics and/or rough recordings by the folks here first, before investing in studio demos.

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for your guidance. Mike Zaneski is the go to person, you say?

Yes, before I would ever pitch this song or send for a professional critique it would need to be rewritten and re-recorded (I knew that when he delivered me the finished product). I actually recorded the vocals myself in a small little untreated studio I have at home. I asked him if we should record the vocals in his studio (comp, auto tune, edit etc.) he said they were fine (I knew they needed to be better).

When I started listening to the production in general it lacks that punch that you need but we lack professional studios here in Bakersfield. The engineer had no production skills, which I needed, to make the song current/commercial sounding. I ended up being the "Producer" which I have no experience in.

Your opinions mean a lot to me as you have told me what I need to do without being harsh or overly critical and I appreciate this so much. And for taking the time to make suggestions to me, I thank you so much.

I have lots of other songs that need instrumentation etc. I wouldn't mind you giving me Mike's contact information to see what he can offer me.

Thanks again

Jane K

Hi again, Jane:

I sent you a Personal Message. Look for a blinking/flashing banner near the top of your JPF page. Click on it to review my PM.

Best wishes, ----Dave

Hello Jane,

Nice to meet you and welcome to JPF.
I think this is very catchy

Chorus
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know
My love is taking a train
When he's coming back
I don't know

Good luck with it.


Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

Thank you very much Calvin. I am very glad I joined JPfolks!

Jane K

Jane,

First off, welcome to JPF—it’s a pleasure having you on board. I hope you enjoy the board as much as I have these past couple of years.

As for “Train,” I think you have a fine voice—and the vocal works real well on this. The opening of the song is catchy . . . hooks the ear nicely. And there are a lot of positive aspects of this tune . . . tons of potential here.

You’ve received a lot of good feedback above . . . not sure I can add to it. The one thing I’ll mention is that the melody in the lines just preceding the chorus (“But I don’t want your pity”), to me seems a little awkward. You have such a beautiful, engaging melody . . . I’d keep it that way and mirror the melody of those first two lines with a bit less variation.

But please take my suggestions, and all of those you received above, on this and any other you post in the future, with a big, big grain of salt. I’m a firm believer that there are no rules when it comes to writing songs . . . it’s all subjective (hence why I stressed “to me” above—it’s just one set of ears that is more often wrong than right). So when you are filtering through all the comments, in the end, just trust your heart and instincts. If it sounds good to you, odds are it's going to sound good to someone else.

And this one, for me, is right on the doorstep—just a little more spit and polish. Great first offering! I’ll look forward to hearing more from you.

My kindest regards,

Deej

Hi Deej,

Thank you for the warm welcome. I am enjoying my time here already.

Thank you for your kind critique. This song was done in a professional studio (except my vocals which I did at home). My initial feeling was when the mix was given to me, it was still not as "tight" and "polished" as I wanted it - so it really helps a lot to have your opinion, as well as others here on the forum. If I decide to fix it, I will have more direction.

I have been very disappointed in the studios here in Bakersfield. We only have 2 here (plus one off the radar).

Thank you so much.

Jane K

Hi Jane!

Firstly, disregard ALL above crits.........now I'll tell you what needs tweaked. Just kidding! Most importantly Jane, you have a wonderful tone to your voice--a great instrument in itself; we're all born with one, but not all born with a special one--you have been blessed in that dept! Write songs for your own vocal style, especially if you want to eventually pitch your music or maybe yourself? But selling yourself isn't an easy task in this industry.

You have lots of constructive crits above that I agree with, so I won't be repetitive. Just remember bridges are designed and utilized mostly when they are needed, and not just part of every song's puzzle--their purpose is to digress primarily musically from established repetition with the idea of breaking the music pattern and lyrically utilized to make a dramatic statement or perhaps reflective moment--which in turn empowers/better welcomes the beforehand established music when it returns. Some songs are fine without bridges when digression is not needed and a bridge could even be disconcerting. Like Deej said, "rely on your instincts" yet listen to your colleagues perceptions then weigh their ideas as you may.

Enjoyed the listen,

stead-eddie

Stead-eddie,

Thank you very much for your kind words.

There are some song forums were they critique lyrics with a "check the box" attitude; verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge, etc. You guys are more forgiving. Thank you for that. Don't get me wrong; I've learned a lot in 2 months time from posting this particular song.

I don't read music. I do everything by ear so my songs are not structured like they should be at times. But now I am more in tune with what I am supposed to do with song structure to make it listenable now that I have gone "public".

I am not planning on getting into the music industry any time soon. I am too "mature" for that. But I love music, always have so I certainly would love to keep on writing as long as I can and would love to get the opportunity to play music with other people and write songs for them etc.

Thank you for listening to my song.

You are very nice people here.

Jane K

Hi Jane,

I don`t have a push or a pull on the song, although I did enjoy the music. just wanted to welcome you
to the site. friendly place, and you can have fun and grow here..all of Us here have...even me! and I hate change..
have fun. Lane

Lane,

Thank you for listening and your warm welcome.

Jane K

Jane, all those things you listed as being available in the studio - comp, auto tune, edit etc. - you can do yourself with an inexpensive DAW (or free, if you have a MAC). Adding a bit of EQ, compression, reverb, etc. can make a huge difference and is actually pretty easy. You can often start with a preset and just tweak it. Same with mastering, which can be done with presets in the DAW or with something like Ozone Elements. Also, your untreated studio might not be ideal, but with a mic set to a cardioid pattern you can get a pretty good vocal (as you did). All this won't get you the full Zaneski (a mic set to cardioid is not the same as a Mike set to magic), but you might like the extra pop you get from your vocals.

Apologies if you know all this already.

Hi Jane
I had a listen and thought that your was really cool. both the words and your singing are pleasing to me. I only write lyrics so can't comment on music composition etc.

God Bless

Roy

Hi Roy,

Thank you for listening to my song and the very kind words. Enjoying my time here on the JP folks forum.


Thanks again.

Jane

Hi Jane,

I STILL cringe at my first stuff so it's something we all go through. From a songwriters standpoint I would like some word, "any" word before train. Melody-wise it feels like a little hole is there.

EXAMPLE....My love is taking "THE L-train"....it just sings better...

Lesson learned??? NEVER demo your song until you are "sure" it is done.

I did that 2-3 times in my life, so it's all good.

Real solid first work.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for listening to my song and I do appreciate the feedback.

If I rewrite this song, I will not take it to a pro studio again. I will attempt the recording myself before I will pay a pro studio.

I am just doing this for the fun of it but thought It would be neat to take some of my songs to a studio.

I have learned it takes a lot of money to produce, record, and mix to perfection.

My next song I post will be me at the recording "wheel". JPfolks is very supportive bunch - thank you much

Jane

Vocals are expressive and they set a melancholy mood over the story your lyrics tell so well. The music is what studios so often put out with their set times and limits and next one up for the next song scheduled. But they do allow us to hear how great your song really is and it's potential. remember that MOST LISTENERS TO YOUR SONG ARE NOT MUSICIANS OR THAT SAVY ABOUT HOW IT WAS PRODUCED. THEY LOCK ON TO THE MOOD AND THE FEELING AND if it makes them feel good or sad and what memories it invokes in their hearts. You have covered all of that quite well.

Hi Jane. The sound quality is great, definitely sounds like you paid for it lol. But, and I may be wrong, it also sounds to me like you're trying hard to make your lyrics fit a stock piece of music the studio just pulled out of a drawer, instead of actually writing music to fit the way you sing your lyric. If I'm right, I would ask if you can sing your lyric "a cappella" to a metronome, or just snapping your fingers?

Hi MFB III and Japov,

Wow, you dug this one out of the pit! Yes, I am very disappointed in the way my songs turned out considering they were recorded at a pro studio. The engineer did not think I needed to re-record my vocals in his studio. The vocal was done by me in my home studio and then mixed and mastered by him.

The timing is off - I mentioned that to him - he didn't know what I was talking about. Plus, while the guitar and bass player is actually from Buck Owens son's band in Bakersfield (he is a great guitar player) he kind of winged it in the studio. I don't read or write music - I couldn't give him any sheet music so (my fault) he did the best he could to follow my melody on the piano.

I have decided to "move on" instead of going back into the studio doing the song over (not worth the money). Big mistake.

Thanks for listening and I do appreciate your insight.

Jane

Really like your vocals.

Thank you very much ckiphen.

Jane

Hi Jane. I'm only writing this in the hope that you're not getting the wrong impression lol. Yea', there’s a lot of people out there who will definitely sell you a bill of worthless goods... The rule of thumb is you don’t pay for studio time until you already know that you have a whole album worth recording. That's kinda' the point of sites like these; musicians, lyricists, singers come together and bounce ideas off each other..... We play for our peers, seek inspiration, and sometimes collaborate. Everyone here agrees that you have a nice voice! But we also seem to agree that there’s a disconnect between your vocal delivery and the current music track. So, simply in the interest of musicianship, I'd still like to hear how YOU hear this in your head! You can obviously carry a tune and apparently play some keys. Do you still have that recording of your melody on the keyboard? Is it with a metronome or basic drum track? If you do, I'm fairly certain everyone here would love to listen and try to "re-interpret" that for you musically. Sometimes just the way you sing a lyric sets it off. BTW, I'm not a pro or a "for profit" studio, I just record what I want because I can lol. Don’t be shy Jane, let’s hear it!

I basically like the musical sound but the whole thing lacks dynamics.
There should be "punches" here and there.

Vic

Thanks for digging this thing out of the "bargain bin" and listening to it. I agree. The guitar has no interesting chord progressions, no pizazz etc. I think the timing is off too. I recorded the vocals myself at home before the session musician came in and he thought they were okay and didn't want to record/comp the vocals in his studio. He just used plug-ins to get some life in the dry vocal I gave him. The engineer was supposed to put vocal harmonies on the chorus with auto-tune to spice it up. When he mastered the song they were buried in the mix.

He was supposed to help me arrange and produce the songs I took in to him and then after hours working with him he said he is the "mixing" engineer and I will be the producer. I believe he was trying to keep me as a client by cutting corners (it was winter when I had this done and he was slow) because I could only afford so much but in the long run I didn't get what I wanted so I would rather have paid more money.

I have never produced music before so - the guitar/bass player came in and "ear played" 3 songs for me and was out in a hour and a half. The engineer played the drums on the songs and I think he buried his drums also. So - I think the guy was clueless as what to do with me.

My original mix was worked out on pro tools and was just a rough mix with my vocal and keyboard and Ez drummer. I wanted a full band sound, especially on the "Train" song with guitar strumming and the whole thing. You know, this is actually the second time I have tried to get this song arranged and produced to my liking. You should of heard the first version! Also, the way the lyrics are constructed is not the best and needs a rewrite. What I thought would turn out to be a nice tune turned in to a disaster.

I wish I would have posted my material a long time ago on songwriter forums, especially this one but I am very shy. You have all been such a great help to me on my musical journey and I have learned so much, maybe a bit too late though.

Jane

Okay....So I cannot listen to my first few demos to this day. Don't worry it will get better.

Question? Do you aspire to be an Artist or get your song "cut" by someone? If you are an Artist DO NOT PRODUCE FOR YOURSELF. You are not ready for that...You need someone to tell you to do another take, or try this or that....There are vocal parts on the tune they should have had you fix or re-sing.

The "right" producer is gold....And not all producers are "right" for all styles of music....

If you DO NOT ASPIRE TO BE AN ARTIST...Bring in the best damn female singer you can hire to sing your track....I play guitar and piano pretty well, but the session guys can do it way better than me in HALF THE TIME. So I fire myself. If I do a home demo yes I will record everything. But my producer will always take my track up 2-3 notches....

For me, I will never be in demo session where we are burning through the tracks. I'm not built that way...I want my track to be the best it possibly can and will not be rushed....

That said, I've had bass players come in and take 30 minutes to do a killer track. If they are good, they are good.

And only demo your best songs with outside sources. Demo your lessor songs yourself. Or what I do alot of times like my new track "First love, last love" is I do a demo and then show my producer my demo & it has all my elements and the best of him and the session players...

Keep on rockin'

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info. My engineer did not believe in "auto tune", even sparingly. I am not an artist and I am not going to pitch any songs right now. Producer! Yikes - who would work with a woman who is not "twenty years old". This is not even a demo for anything except for me to have "band" sound to some of my songs. I so want to take this song down.

I will keep on rockin though!

Jane