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#1151392 - 03/06/19 07:27 AM Duties of a manager  
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Everett Adams Offline
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When a artist signs on with a manager, what are the duties of that manager.? I ask because I know of someone that performs and signed on with a manager and it seems the manager controls all aspects of her life when it come to music.

#1151394 - 03/06/19 08:58 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Martin Lide Offline
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MAB and some others can respond to this with authority and experience. I am only an interested observer who has only read this and that.

Won't stop me. wink

A manager has to be able to plan a performer's career with the goal of optimizing it. You want to pick a manager who can get that done effectively. To whatever extent the manager can simply plan and make decisions quickly will often determine the optimization of the outcome. If the manager always has to pause and ask the managed...

is that alright with you?
Are you in the mood for that next week?
Do you think that you will probably be in the mood for that next week?

....the manager's effectiveness is badly undercut.


Stated another way, the performer is a piece on a chess board, but not the player. If the manager is real good, then the performer is "in good hands." if not....

I've been in bands as part of "management" that played "the bars." The drama that was involved in just pulling gigs together that paid me 100 bucks was enormous. Can't imagine the hell involved in music management as a full time job.

#1151396 - 03/06/19 09:00 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Well said, Martin:

#1151399 - 03/06/19 10:13 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well,
Simply put there should be give and take. The Artist should have a good conversion with a Manager of what they need and generally how things work. Eh, in the Navy when a new ship is commissioned there is a thing called a shakedown cruze. That is where a crew gets a real life experience on the ship. If the Captain gets too out of whack they just Keelhaul him. Just kidding!


Ray E. Strode
#1151400 - 03/06/19 11:24 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Martin Lide Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
Simply put there should be give and take. The Artist should have a good conversion with a Manager of what they need and generally how things work. Eh, in the Navy when a new ship is commissioned there is a thing called a shakedown cruze. That is where a crew gets a real life experience on the ship. If the Captain gets too out of whack they just Keelhaul him. Just kidding!


Give and take with a musician? Do you know any? wink

#1151401 - 03/06/19 11:26 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Here is a real life example of the power of a good manager

http://www.newenglandhistoricalsoci...ndau-shows-bruce-springsteen-the-future/



Last edited by Fdemetrio; 03/06/19 11:50 AM.
#1151404 - 03/06/19 11:50 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Aw, Humm Martin,
If an Artist allows a Manager to run his life so be it. A famous story. Jimmy Dean had a T.V. Show. Roy Clark was one of the players, musicians on the show. It seems Roy had a hard time showing up on time. After a while Jimmy told Roy he could no longer use him. In other words Jimmy fired Roy. Any more questions? If you are the boss, be the boss!


Ray E. Strode
#1151406 - 03/06/19 12:06 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Artists are usually pains in the arses to manage anyway. Most of them dont even realise they are on the doorstep of millions, theyd rather fight over artist integrity and those kind of issues. That usually how it starts but then greed takes over for the artist too.

Name any artist, chances are, they werent in it for the money in the beginning, but they adapted.....

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 03/06/19 12:06 PM.
#1151407 - 03/06/19 12:30 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Martin Lide Offline
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Artists are usually pains in the arses to manage anyway. Most of them dont even realise they are on the doorstep of millions, theyd rather fight over artist integrity and those kind of issues. That usually how it starts but then greed takes over for the artist too.

Name any artist, chances are, they werent in it for the money in the beginning, but they adapted.....


Inarguable. True of socialist politicians too.

#1151408 - 03/06/19 12:36 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Artists are usually pains in the arses to manage anyway. Most of them dont even realise they are on the doorstep of millions, theyd rather fight over artist integrity and those kind of issues. That usually how it starts but then greed takes over for the artist too.

Name any artist, chances are, they werent in it for the money in the beginning, but they adapted.....


Inarguable. True of socialist politicians too.


Why limit that to socialist politicians, lets include all politicians, and throw in athletes, religious leader, Doctors, Lawyers, business owners, police chiefs, and the list goes on.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 03/06/19 12:37 PM.
#1151409 - 03/06/19 01:16 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Quite a question. There are many definitions and not a one size fits all.

In theory, a "manager" is the "business" of the artist. They oversee all facets of an artists career an artist can't or won't do themselves. They are responsible for finding investors for the artist, in being a liaison with record labels, booking agents, road managers, business managers, responsible for any contacts with television, movies, promotion, merchandising, recording and development of an artist's career. They are the "power behind the throne" so to speak, and the "REAL" ones spend all their time in the relentless promotion and care of that artist's career.

Much is been said to denigrate the "Col. Tom Parker's and Brian Epstein's of the world, but arguments can be made that Elvis and the Beatles might not have achieved what they achieved without these individuals. They also have to be the bad guy in all relationships for the artist. In the words of Don Henley of the Eagles for their manager, Irving Azoff, "He may be Satan, but he's OUR SATAN."

For many years legally the business had to be segmented. A "manager" could not legally be a booking agent, promoter, producer, etc. But that has changed over the years and the lines have blurred. Now there doesn't seem to be any rules, as money has decreased in many cases overall, you find people wearing more hats.

Many are "MINO'S. (Manager in name only) that are glorified friends or hangers on of artists, that come around and really don't do much of anything except collect a percentage when the artist does something on their own. I once had a token manager for a little while who came with an artist I worked with. That manager cut herself into all kinds of relationships that I had had for years before I ever knew either of them. And outside of organizing one "press party", and one meeting with a producer (which I could have done myself) she did virtually nothing except talk and try to hit wealthy friends of mine up for money

Again, fortunately these go away as fast as they come.

There are some managers that do nothing but keep their clients out of trouble. With the advent of Facebook and Twitter, careers can be destroyed faster on social media than alcohol or drugs ever will. Today we spend more time trying to not offend someone than we do on anything else. And with the newest advent of life with things like #Metoo, now you can be sued and destroyed for something you said, wrote or sang twenty five years before.

So a manager will have his/her hands full. There is not one definition other than "someone who does all the things an artist can't or won't do. Most people are not ready for them because they have nothing to manage. Until you have a following, are out there writing, recording interacting with the public, you really are on your own until you can afford to pay someone 15-25% and have a decent percentage to begin with. Reputable managers are not going to take anyone on for less than that and ones that do are often just looking to be paid up front. There are a lot of those out there.

Good luck to your friend Everett. I'd suggest doing it in graduated terms. Give it a year at first, see what happens, then proceed to the next year, etc. Each side should evaluate as the go and see if they are still on the same page.

A problem from the manager side is that until they can provide substantial contacts, they can be moved out of a career quickly. The higher the level an artist goes, the higher level a manager is needed. One of my good friends and clients managed several artists in Canada, in fact getting one act to the point of "Duo of the year" in the Canadian Country Music Association. But the second that duo started achieving success, she was moved aside for a more "High profile manager" with better connections.
Unfortunately she passed away two years ago from Cancer and never got to see them get all the way up. But she was a great help to them. Sometimes managers get the short shift as well.

MAB

#1151410 - 03/06/19 01:50 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Quite a question. There are many definitions and not a one size fits all.

In theory, a "manager" is the "business" of the artist. They oversee all facets of an artists career an artist can't or won't do themselves. They are responsible for finding investors for the artist, in being a liaison with record labels, booking agents, road managers, business managers, responsible for any contacts with television, movies, promotion, merchandising, recording and development of an artist's career. They are the "power behind the throne" so to speak, and the "REAL" ones spend all their time in the relentless promotion and care of that artist's career.

Much is been said to denigrate the "Col. Tom Parker's and Brian Epstein's of the world, but arguments can be made that Elvis and the Beatles might not have achieved what they achieved without these individuals. They also have to be the bad guy in all relationships for the artist. In the words of Don Henley of the Eagles for their manager, Irving Azoff, "He may be Satan, but he's OUR SATAN."

For many years legally the business had to be segmented. A "manager" could not legally be a booking agent, promoter, producer, etc. But that has changed over the years and the lines have blurred. Now there doesn't seem to be any rules, as money has decreased in many cases overall, you find people wearing more hats.

Many are "MINO'S. (Manager in name only) that are glorified friends or hangers on of artists, that come around and really don't do much of anything except collect a percentage when the artist does something on their own. I once had a token manager for a little while who came with an artist I worked with. That manager cut herself into all kinds of relationships that I had had for years before I ever knew either of them. And outside of organizing one "press party", and one meeting with a producer (which I could have done myself) she did virtually nothing except talk and try to hit wealthy friends of mine up for money

Again, fortunately these go away as fast as they come.

There are some managers that do nothing but keep their clients out of trouble. With the advent of Facebook and Twitter, careers can be destroyed faster on social media than alcohol or drugs ever will. Today we spend more time trying to not offend someone than we do on anything else. And with the newest advent of life with things like #Metoo, now you can be sued and destroyed for something you said, wrote or sang twenty five years before.

So a manager will have his/her hands full. There is not one definition other than "someone who does all the things an artist can't or won't do. Most people are not ready for them because they have nothing to manage. Until you have a following, are out there writing, recording interacting with the public, you really are on your own until you can afford to pay someone 15-25% and have a decent percentage to begin with. Reputable managers are not going to take anyone on for less than that and ones that do are often just looking to be paid up front. There are a lot of those out there.

Good luck to your friend Everett. I'd suggest doing it in graduated terms. Give it a year at first, see what happens, then proceed to the next year, etc. Each side should evaluate as the go and see if they are still on the same page.

A problem from the manager side is that until they can provide substantial contacts, they can be moved out of a career quickly. The higher the level an artist goes, the higher level a manager is needed. One of my good friends and clients managed several artists in Canada, in fact getting one act to the point of "Duo of the year" in the Canadian Country Music Association. But the second that duo started achieving success, she was moved aside for a more "High profile manager" with better connections.
Unfortunately she passed away two years ago from Cancer and never got to see them get all the way up. But she was a great help to them. Sometimes managers get the short shift as well.

MAB


Hey Mark, couldn't you view being a manager the same way as being a songwriter. Searching for up and coming artists to take a ride with?

Actually, I kid you not, I used to work in a guitar shop, and a co worker told me about this woman who was in a technical sense a music manager, though she never had any credits. Im like "damn if she wants to be your manager, shell probably be my manager too". I literally walked by her house one day, there were no websites or emails, and I didnt have her phone number lol. She coulda viewed me as a stalker or just a really dumb kid.

But it turned out I knew more about the music business than she did. I played her a demo id made on a tascam tape recorder, and she thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Im like are you sure? Did you hear it? lol

So i got the feeling that just as there were all kinds of publishing companies and record companies, like the ones listed in songwriters market, there were also similar managers. Everybody is trying to find their role.

Ahh that was hilarious though. Actually my coworker got mad I went over there, im like dude, shes clueless, has a tin ear, and not even attractive.....

#1151412 - 03/06/19 02:02 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well,
I read Jimmy Bowen's book ROUGH MIX a while back. I have the book. It seems he mentioned some of these things on a much larger scale but I can't remember much now. I would have to Re-Read the book. As Marc indicated, no one type fits everything. You just have to play it by ear and go with the flow.


Ray E. Strode
#1151415 - 03/06/19 04:01 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Fedimento says:
"Hey Mark, couldn't you view being a manager the same way as being a songwriter. Searching for up and coming artists to take a ride with?"


It's exactly the same thing. And it's part of the business, the "who knows you and how they know you." Everyone is trying to tie into the "next big thing." And it is a "law of averages." The more songs you write, the more chances you have that lightning might strike. The more people you write with, the more avenues you have on your songs. The more artists you write with, the better a chance one of those artists will break out and get you where you are not on your own.
Artists are doing the same thing, working with known established or hit writers to get better songs or help with political contacts. Managers do the same thing, as do record labels, publishers, producers, you name it. You work with dozens and sometimes hundreds of people to have that right one come along.

Many things happen in this business. Labels fold due to no fault of the writer or artist. Labels close. Bad artists are signed, bad songs are promoted. Music trends change. Political relationships end. All of these things and thousands more are things we all have to deal with and move on. Managers sometimes can help with that because they might know things "behind the scenes."

I remember plenty of conversations with managers (My former brother in law managed a couple of well known country music and television stars) and they would know when someone was losing their deal, or a label might be shutting down long before it was announced to the public. They also need to know if labels have signed similar artists as their own, or if the trends have changed and something might be "dead in the water" before it is pitched to some artist.

That's a really big deal when you are writing and trying to pitch songs. Trends will develop and you think your song in that trend might be PERFECT for some artist. Then the trends change behind the scenes, but you still hear those songs on the radio. Gets confusing. Part of a managers job are to know things like that as well.

So it's all relative. We're all trying to hitch our wagon to some other person's cart. That's the name of the game.

#1151425 - 03/07/19 08:32 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I guess it's like getting a publisher. A good publisher can be like gold in getting you cuts on your songs, where a bad publisher can just sit on your songs hoping the writer or artist can make a song happen and they will reap the rewards because they hold the publishing on that song. But how does someone know ahead of time if a manager or publisher is just a bottom feeder or a go getter. An artist or writer has to prove he/she has what it takes to attract a publisher or a manager or producer. Bottom feeders are the first to come to you as they have little to lose, but the good ones may hold back because they have a reputation to protect.

I don't know if she has made a good choice or not, I guess time will tell. A contract has a time limit on it, so in that time an artist can make it big or fizzle, depending who drops the ball or who carries the ball over the goal line.

#1151426 - 03/07/19 09:38 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Everett,

The first thing you have to remember is there is "NO GETTING LIKE." It's ALWAYS been this way. Bad managers, publishers, record deals, cheating investors, etc. are as old as this business itself. Anything that represents money or fame is going to attract as many bad people and bottom feeders as any of the successful people. And as a matter of fact, most have a good bit of both. Col .Tom Parker, who was Elvis' manager, first managed country star Eddie Arnold. And I believe he was fired by Eddie which is how he ended up with Elvis in the first place.
One of the biggest problems the Beatles ever had was signing with Allen Klein, their manager after Brian Epstein died. Many books have been written to how bad that decision was, but there are ramifications of that deal that continue to this day.

There is no way to really know except going through it. In my opinion and experience people put too much emphasis on any one aspect of a career. Bad managers can be a pain, and sometimes create quite a few problems, but that can't be the only aspect to a career. The ideal situation for an artist is to be so undeniable that nothing can keep them down. And the one thing that you can't take away is a relationship with your listeners and friends. As Brian has always said, if you can create loyal fans (the numbers change, but the bottom line are people that follow you, purchase your music, go to your shows buy your merchandise) that is what you really have to focus on.
Managers, producers, record or publishing deals should only assist in doing this. If they inhibit it, they are not doing their job.

Your friend is going to just have to see. I would suggest they keep notes on what their expectations are, and what the manager are doing to achieve those. It should manifest itself pretty quickly. If a few months go by and they are no better off than they were before, they should probably look in other directions.

In many cases, Managers are mostly hangers on and if the artist is not doing everything to maximize their careers, there is not a lot a manager is going to do. We live in a do it yourself world now. Social media has exploded what people do on their own. Managers can help on that but it is mostly on what kind of artist they are. Managers can only present you to others. Not make who you are.

Interestingly, like most things I talk about here, this very subject is coming to me this afternoon. An artist I have worked with over the past couple of years is coming over to meet with me. She has recently signed with a "manager", who is also a friend of mine. He is a very nice guy and may be just fine, but mostly he is just a singer/songwriter himself, and has never really managed anyone that I know of. They are both talented people and I hope it will work out, but my advice is for her to keep going in what she is doing, and take it one step at a time.

In my opinion she needs to focus on building fan base in her home area, but a lot of these people don;'t listen to me, they move to Nashville, get sucked in the waiting period and sooner or later it dries up and they are done. I hope not with her, she is very talented. People get WAY too Nashville, (New York, LA) focused. But I understand it. I did the same thing so we just have to make our best decisions when they come our way.

Again, good luck to your friend.
MAB

#1151439 - 03/08/19 07:55 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Thank you Marc. It can be a cut throat business. It surprises me that artist make any money after they have to pay managers, producers, studios, musicians, road crews, publishers, transportation, hotel rooms, etc. etc. So many more cost that I don't even know about. It's something like farming, the farmer is the last to make a buck. Wholesalers, retailers, distributors, machinery manufactures and dealers, oil companies, labourers, fertilizer and chemical suppliers, bag manufactures, power company, etc. etc. etc. all have to have their cut, The farmer, the basis of the business, get a very few cents per pound profit out of the consumer's price. I guess that is what keeps the economy going.

I think she has signed a two year contract, so she will have to judge after two years if she has improved enough to resign or go it on her own or look for another better manager.

#1151441 - 03/08/19 08:48 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Actually Everett,

What she and most future artists are going to find that they are going to have to do more with less. Being able to moneytize any of this is becoming the big problem except for the huge major stars. And even those have more challenges than ever before. The days of assistants, to assistants, to assistants, multiple musicians, transportation, and even managers. are downsizing not increasing. You can't have the big "posse's" hangers on any more. You see a lot of bankrupt rappers and artists dissapearing faster than ever.

If you look inside most artists they don't drive the huge tour buses as much as vans. The band members double up on driving. Less musicians on the road, due to less in overall money coming in, They'll have friends of the artist selling merchandise instead of one dedicated person they have to pay.

The money even on medium sized gigs have declined. What used to pay bands in the old days are about one third now. And with increased competition, so many people doing this, venues pay less overall. With the advent of less radio airplay and more going to Internet, that also means less money overall.

Basically we have unending supply and finite demand and that affects everyone. Name any act out there that complains about doing too well. And usually the managers, will be doing multiple jobs. That is why you are seeing more managers being also the producers, the booking agents, starting and maintaining the label, etc. doing the work of ten to twelve people, because the old days of large entourage are going the way of the Do Do bird.

Artists have about the same careers now as professional athletes. One medium sized hit, a good couple of years doing decently, then forgotten by the public very quickly. The long term careers of the past, are pretty much gone.

The listeners are fickle and on to the next "trend of the moment" and even that plays out much quicker.

You can go through most any bookstore or peruse online sources and read endless biographies about artists, who had to declare bankruptcy in the middle of their most successful times. Of course again, none of this is new.
And now, with the advent of the Internet, Facebook, Twitter, many careers are going to be destroyed by other forces than the lack of money. Witness the ongoing meltdown of R. Kelly. Every moment you live, every word you say, now can make it into the public conciousness. That can end a career overnight.

It happened to television in the early 2000's. As the costs of production increased, you saw more and more "reality shows" which took it's toll on writers, actors, all sorts of professional people. At the same time increasing the amount of people graduating film students and putting more people into the work pool.

Similar things happened in farming as you mention. You have technology that comes in and replaces people. Many corporate farms have taken over the farming industries because being a huge conglomerate is the only way to stay viable,. But our food output are at all time highs.

So the future will actually be more done with less. And what your friend might find out is that she will probably be better doing her own management.

The first thing that all artists, writers, musicians, etc. are going to have to deal with is the shifting reality of the music industry, just like most of society. The old days of endless money is fading out, giving way to a much leaner, tighter endeavors. Going to have to learn to do more with less resources and less way to monetize. If you want to be a friend to your friend, make sure that she learns self sufficiency now. To avoid some costly mistakes in the future.

MAB

#1151442 - 03/08/19 10:56 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Aw, yes,
Marc, you have convinced me! I am going into the Music Business! Now back to reality. My Publisher friend and a couple of other guys entered a song contest where the first prize was $10,000.00. Well guess what they won the contest! The song is posted on youTube and our Web Site. HOW MUCH IS THAT PICTURE OF JESUS is the song. Little Jimmy Dickens recorded the song. But the guy, a publisher I am told took all the records, sold them and all the money and disappeared! I understand Little Jimmy paid for the recording.

The lesson here is follow that old advice, Trust but Verify. And as I, and others have said from time to time, don't put anybody else in charge of your pocketbook. Just as soon as you trust somebody, they will screw you. I have first hand experience! You too?


Ray E. Strode
#1151443 - 03/08/19 01:16 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray,

When was that contest? With Little Jimmy Dickens? Must have been a while back. But most contests are pretty superficial. My band won a pretty big one in 1984 sponsored by Miller Beer and MCA records. We won out of around 30,000 bands and did get some equipment, a single release and some press, but it was never the big contract you would think. It also wasn't so much of a "rip off" as just a contest.

One of the artists I worked with was first runner up on THE VOICE about four years ago and she did get a car out of it and can still say she was a finalist on THE VOICE. She had also won another contest a few years before. She uses those as a resume. And did get some fan base out of it, but most contests are over after they are over. It's the nature of contests, they generally are big publicity build up, a few perks here and there, and then they are on to the next contest, so there is not a lot of overall advantages. You more or less find yourself where you were before, but you learn about the nature of them.

I have not been "ripped off" signing bad deals or getting into bad situations. More of just things that happen. Companies going out of business or being sold off to other companies and getting lost in the shuffle, record and publishing deals that go for a while and then sort of run out of steam. A lot of times money issues where companies just can't stay in the game. I've had some singles recorded by other artists, and in the middle of getting it ready to come out the owner of the company DYING due to a Cancer related heart attack and other songs that got cut and then never released as the project changed companies or personel..

I have always said that "The more you know about the music business, the LESS you want to know about the music business." Ignorance is bliss and when all you have to worry about is writing some song, recording a demo, pitching it to some artist or if you are the artist, finding ways to get it out there, it has it's advantages.
When you start getting into the actual BUSINESS of music, and find so many other things you have to be concerned with, inner company competition, songs simply not getting traction and not played on radio, being involved with managers, label people, producers, that you are not the priority for and getting lost in a shuffle of business.
85% of a career is totally away from writing, recording, performing, and is in networking, business people and sometimes just a run of bad luck.

A lot of times you wonder how ANYTHING becomes successful, particularly in today's market with so many people trying for the same things. Last night I had conversations with three different mothers about their daughters wanting to go into music college and then get into the music business. I do my best to convince them to TAKE IT SLOW.
They need to learn their craft, find their audience, and learn as much as they can and most of that doesn't come from any college. I have quite a bit of insight on this, because my daughter graduated from a music college but with a business degree. So I try to give them as many sides of the equation as possible.

The bottom line is that it is NEVER just one thing. It's not as easy as getting a "manager to do their job." Sometimes they do their job and the artist just doesn't happen. I know of dozens of times people had everything, great songs, great looks, investment money, label participation, political contacts, even shots on mainstream radio, television and even in movies, and still not happen. And then sometimes far more people that get "out there" and you can' for your life figure out how they have done it.It's a bizarre thing, trying to gauge what is going to work with the public. You can't figure out what the public is going to respond to and how. If anyone could, that is all they would do, and not the hundreds and sometimes thousands of things that just fail.

#1151444 - 03/08/19 01:34 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well,
The song contest was in 1991. The info is on the Web Site. I believe the Publisher was On Hold Publishing if I remember correctly. The contest was the Music City Song Festival but it is listed on the Web Site under the History Page.
http://www.geocities.ws/fiverosesmusicgroup/

Yes I agree. You have to be a Jack of All Trades in the music Business as well as most other life it's self. Dang!


Ray E. Strode
#1151449 - 03/09/19 08:09 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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The old saying "competition is good" because it keeps prices down to the consumer. That's fine if the competition is fair but rarely is it fair. When a company gets big enough that governments won't let them fail because of the jobs involved that will be lost. We remember government bailouts in the car manufactures and the banking industry, where billions of tax dollars went to prop them up. As soon as they get back on their feet, they look to move to countries or cities that will offer them incentives to move. Government grants to big businesses only puts more pressure on small companies that can't compete against the government subsidies and the large volume of output by these companies. I fear the time will come when there will be only a few huge companies left and then they will charge what they like and we'll have no choice but buy from them. Every day we hear of mergers and buyouts of fairly large companies by much bigger companies. Getting rid of the competition. Then bankruptcies of large companies that can't compete with artificially low prices of companies that sell low to just stay alive until there is no competition left, then watch out as they make back profits they didn't make in formative years.

We have a situation here now in Canada where the government is trying to protect a huge company from going to court because they were caught bribing officials to get contracts. This company employs many thousands of workers, so they don't want them to fail. The message that the government is sending to large companies is, if you are big enough you can break the law and won't be punished. But a small company or individual will bear the full weight of the law. A law for the rich and a law for the poor. It's the way the world is going.

#1151450 - 03/09/19 08:27 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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If the company goes down the politicians will get some of the blame and lose a campaign funding source.
And more frightening, be replaced by politicians that will do the bidding of donors.

I'm not sure how Canada works, but I suspect it is something like that.

#1151453 - 03/09/19 10:43 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Eh , Well,
I don't know what this has to do with a Manager but sometimes To Big to Fail has dire consequenses. Our esteemed Congress in their quest to "Level" the playing field relaxed the banking regulations so most anyone could get a Mortgage, able to pay or not. SO, all the people that couldn't qualify for a mortgage under the old rules, charged the banks like a Gaggle of Hogs charging a Trough full of Slop. Now our esteemed leader in the House wants to let all illegals vote. On top of that the Progressives want to essentually move back to the Stone Age. No cars, no planes, no fossel fuels, etc, etc. Somehow being a Manager in the Music Business sounds really tame.


Ray E. Strode
#1151456 - 03/09/19 11:37 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Eh , Well,
I don't know what this has to do with a Manager but sometimes To Big to Fail has dire consequenses. Our esteemed Congress in their quest to "Level" the playing field relaxed the banking regulations so most anyone could get a Mortgage, able to pay or not. SO, all the people that couldn't qualify for a mortgage under the old rules, charged the banks like a Gaggle of Hogs charging a Trough full of Slop. Now our esteemed leader in the House wants to let all illegals vote. On top of that the Progressives want to essentually move back to the Stone Age. No cars, no planes, no fossel fuels, etc, etc. Somehow being a Manager in the Music Business sounds really tame.


Originally Posted by Everett Adams
The old saying "competition is good" because it keeps prices down to the consumer. That's fine if the competition is fair but rarely is it fair. When a company gets big enough that governments won't let them fail because of the jobs involved that will be lost. We remember government bailouts in the car manufactures and the banking industry, where billions of tax dollars went to prop them up. As soon as they get back on their feet, they look to move to countries or cities that will offer them incentives to move. Government grants to big businesses only puts more pressure on small companies that can't compete against the government subsidies and the large volume of output by these companies. I fear the time will come when there will be only a few huge companies left and then they will charge what they like and we'll have no choice but buy from them. Every day we hear of mergers and buyouts of fairly large companies by much bigger companies. Getting rid of the competition. Then bankruptcies of large companies that can't compete with artificially low prices of companies that sell low to just stay alive until there is no competition left, then watch out as they make back profits they didn't make in formative years.

We have a situation here now in Canada where the government is trying to protect a huge company from going to court because they were caught bribing officials to get contracts. This company employs many thousands of workers, so they don't want them to fail. The message that the government is sending to large companies is, if you are big enough you can break the law and won't be punished. But a small company or individual will bear the full weight of the law. A law for the rich and a law for the poor. It's the way the world is going.


Breaking the law goes hand and hand with being big. Wed all be in jail for the things Hillary and Trump have done, no chance of winning in court

So its nothing new, the bigs always have it easier, unless another big wants them out of the way.

#1151457 - 03/09/19 11:45 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Quote
"Breaking the law goes hand and hand with being big. Wed all be in jail for the things Hillary and Trump have done, no chance of winning in court

So its nothing new, the bigs always have it easier, unless another big wants them out of the way" - Fdemetrio



Yeah, but the big boys affairs and womanizing comes back to haunt them decades later. I don't think any dame will come after me for womanizing (if I did it, that is). When you're rich, there are always going to be lawsuits. Now, what was this topic about? laugh


John smile

#1151458 - 03/09/19 11:47 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Quote
"Breaking the law goes hand and hand with being big. Wed all be in jail for the things Hillary and Trump have done, no chance of winning in court

So its nothing new, the bigs always have it easier, unless another big wants them out of the way" - Fdemetrio



Yeah, but the big boys affairs and womanizing comes back to haunt them decades later. I don't think any dame will come after me for womanizing (if I did it, that is). When you're rich, there are always going to be lawsuits. Now, what was this topic about? laugh


John smile


Womanizing is nothing to what our politicians have done.

#1151459 - 03/09/19 12:45 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well,
This has nothing to do with being a Music Manager but I will try anyway. I was pretty young at the time. Probably around 5. My father kept about 75 or so head of sheep on the farm. The way vegetation grows in southeastern Ohio the sheep had plenty of work to do keep up with it. Early in the spring when the lambs were born my father would cut off the tail of the lambs. The sheep would be healther that way as they became adults. Well, I thought that was mean to the lambs. I took an old corn stalk and hit my father over the head with it. Then I ran! He had a straw hat on so he probably didn't feel it. Well I didn't say I was perfect!


Ray E. Strode
#1151460 - 03/09/19 01:12 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Fdemetrio Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
This has nothing to do with being a Music Manager but I will try anyway. I was pretty young at the time. Probably around 5. My father kept about 75 or so head of sheep on the farm. The way vegetation grows in southeastern Ohio the sheep had plenty of work to do keep up with it. Early in the spring when the lambs were born my father would cut off the tail of the lambs. The sheep would be healther that way as they became adults. Well, I thought that was mean to the lambs. I took an old corn stalk and hit my father over the head with it. Then I ran! He had a straw hat on so he probably didn't feel it. Well I didn't say I was perfect!


My dad used to hunt. When I was a kid, id go with him. i didnt think anything about it, cause you know, my dad was doing it. When I got older, I couldnt understand how anybody could kill any animal. I know we have to eat, and im not an animal rights activist, but I couldnt kill an animal. Although mice, i dont mind using the trap, cause you almost have to, no choice.

There was a store that sold fresh chicken in town. A truck would come filled with live chickens. They drop the ramp, and the chickens walk down the ramp and right into the store. Where they will soon be chopped up. It's something that bothers me, but I dont hold any judgement on anybody who hunts or kills animals for food.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 03/09/19 01:13 PM.
#1151461 - 03/09/19 02:40 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Back to manager talk. Does anybody want to manage my music career? I pay 50% of all my profits, which is quite substantial.

#1151533 - 03/12/19 11:53 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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You know, it is a joke, but there are managers now who charge up front to be involved with anyone. Same as publishers going to a " fee for service" song plugging or pitching services. The reality is that there are really no percentages any more. Managers used to go with a percentage, the same as publishers. Producers have always gone with an up front fee as well as "back end. " As music has diminished in its overall earning power, people have shifted to fee for service. Like everything, you have to decide how important it is to you. I once heard a friend of mine who was a manager asked for advice by a new artist. "What is the one piece of advice you would give an upcoming artist?" He said "Come with some really deep pockets." That was like 20 years ago. It's gotten much more expensive now and the chances of getting thing back out have diminished.

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 03/12/19 11:55 AM.
#1151534 - 03/12/19 12:33 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well,
The hell with being a Music Manager. It appears there is a big cheating scandal in elites with college entrance applications. Is being honest gone the way of the Do-Do Bird? If I have to cheat to get some advantage I don't want it. The Liberals, Liars, and Cheaters are alive and well out there. I think it may be time to break out the guns, knives, torches, and other various means to get back to reality. Has anybody listened to that song Philadelphia Lawyer by Maddox Brothers and Rose lately. You might want to go and have another listen.


Ray E. Strode
#1151557 - 03/12/19 11:17 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Lawyers, Guns and Money.

#1151563 - 03/13/19 01:12 AM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Here is a real life example of the power of a good manager

http://www.newenglandhistoricalsoci...ndau-shows-bruce-springsteen-the-future/



Lots of info left out. Although having a one sided contract, so says the court judge, with first manager, Mike Appel, it was Appel management skills and endless energy to match The boss, that got Springsteen playing everywhere, and getting him on the cover of Newsweek and Time for the same week! It was the work of Bruce and Appel that gained Bruce much attention, despite the disappointing sales of the first two albums. As producer also, Appel let Bruce do his thing in the studio for that is exactly what Bruce wanted. To experiment and not follow usual rules of making hits. When the Born To Run album was started, Bruce asked Appel if Landau can come in and work with Appel and all the guys. Appel agreed, which was and is rare to allow that. Born to Run was first composed by Bruce and Appel, with both figuring out the arrangement. In the studio Appel, for that song, it was Jimmy Iveine, Appel and Bruce who worked on everything the most, with those three also mixing the song over and over through the long night. They, (just the three as I was told and is on record in publications, came in the next day expecting to have to start the mixing process over from scratch, UNTIL those three heard what they had done on the last mix the night before. It was DONE! They couldn't believe they coldn't tell the night before, but of course, all had ear fatique, bit somehow, mixed it perfectly for that song. Appel worked with landau, and OK's all the things Bruce and Landau wanted to do on the album. Landau was not the manager even then. It wasn't till after a year long battle of a contract, settled out of court, that Landau and the label paid to have the right to manage and have anyone else produce. Up to the court decision, Appel was the manager who signed Bruce, and produced him, building him up to be ready for the next step Bruce THEN wanted to go in, (a more pop structured way of producing and arranging his songs).

Much more too. But wold need to get all three sides to fill in any in between info. Appel Managed Bruce to get known worldwide, despite not having the albums be hits. Appel booked Bruce everywhere too, so his management job also meant he was his booking agent, At one venue, far away, when they got there, the cement walls had Appel not have a soundcheck. But rather, went to a store to get coverings for the walls and some of the ceiling, climbing up with the roadies to get it done before people started to come in. That was manager who took care of ALL details, to put Bruce in such a position to create a huge buz. Landau came in to a star in the making. I could have managed Bruce after the Born To Run Album. The pop song production job of Landau was his best contribution. After Bruce got his own unique style out of his system, thanks to Appel. And, what songs does Bruce end his show with, which gains so much excitement? Songs from the first two albums, then Born To Run, which Appel mainly produced and arranged with Bruce before Landau heard it at that venue.

Cool Stuff, how stars are developed and made through the great help of managers, as in Epstein for The Beatles. Crafty, off the rule book things done by him as well, which helped get the Beatles a one day charted song in England. (buying 10,000 copies of the record, as a guarantee. I bet there are many stories of managers who did ewither one sided contracts, BUT got their artist to great heights to then go off to others, (after the fact).

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#1151583 - 03/13/19 01:18 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Lawyers, Guns and Money.


What a great forgotten song by Warren Z

#1151584 - 03/13/19 01:24 PM Re: Duties of a manager [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Originally Posted by Johnny Daubert
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Here is a real life example of the power of a good manager

http://www.newenglandhistoricalsoci...ndau-shows-bruce-springsteen-the-future/



Lots of info left out. Although having a one sided contract, so says the court judge, with first manager, Mike Appel, it was Appel management skills and endless energy to match The boss, that got Springsteen playing everywhere, and getting him on the cover of Newsweek and Time for the same week! It was the work of Bruce and Appel that gained Bruce much attention, despite the disappointing sales of the first two albums. As producer also, Appel let Bruce do his thing in the studio for that is exactly what Bruce wanted. To experiment and not follow usual rules of making hits. When the Born To Run album was started, Bruce asked Appel if Landau can come in and work with Appel and all the guys. Appel agreed, which was and is rare to allow that. Born to Run was first composed by Bruce and Appel, with both figuring out the arrangement. In the studio Appel, for that song, it was Jimmy Iveine, Appel and Bruce who worked on everything the most, with those three also mixing the song over and over through the long night. They, (just the three as I was told and is on record in publications, came in the next day expecting to have to start the mixing process over from scratch, UNTIL those three heard what they had done on the last mix the night before. It was DONE! They couldn't believe they coldn't tell the night before, but of course, all had ear fatique, bit somehow, mixed it perfectly for that song. Appel worked with landau, and OK's all the things Bruce and Landau wanted to do on the album. Landau was not the manager even then. It wasn't till after a year long battle of a contract, settled out of court, that Landau and the label paid to have the right to manage and have anyone else produce. Up to the court decision, Appel was the manager who signed Bruce, and produced him, building him up to be ready for the next step Bruce THEN wanted to go in, (a more pop structured way of producing and arranging his songs).

Much more too. But wold need to get all three sides to fill in any in between info. Appel Managed Bruce to get known worldwide, despite not having the albums be hits. Appel booked Bruce everywhere too, so his management job also meant he was his booking agent, At one venue, far away, when they got there, the cement walls had Appel not have a soundcheck. But rather, went to a store to get coverings for the walls and some of the ceiling, climbing up with the roadies to get it done before people started to come in. That was manager who took care of ALL details, to put Bruce in such a position to create a huge buz. Landau came in to a star in the making. I could have managed Bruce after the Born To Run Album. The pop song production job of Landau was his best contribution. After Bruce got his own unique style out of his system, thanks to Appel. And, what songs does Bruce end his show with, which gains so much excitement? Songs from the first two albums, then Born To Run, which Appel mainly produced and arranged with Bruce before Landau heard it at that venue.

Cool Stuff, how stars are developed and made through the great help of managers, as in Epstein for The Beatles. Crafty, off the rule book things done by him as well, which helped get the Beatles a one day charted song in England. (buying 10,000 copies of the record, as a guarantee. I bet there are many stories of managers who did ewither one sided contracts, BUT got their artist to great heights to then go off to others, (after the fact).

John


Well Appel got him the audition with John Hammond which is now the stuff of legends. He described how he took a bus from Asbury Park, to NYC, with his guitar unsure if Hammond would tell him to get out, or whatever. He played a few songs, one was "Does this bus stop at 82nd street" always wondered if he wrote that on the bus there lol

But first thing out of Hammonds mouth "you gotta be on columbia records" If you're good, you;re good, doesnt matter who set you up. If you stink it wont fly.

He credits Appel for alot I believe he was with him at the hall of fame ceremonies, and they are still friends.

But Landau made Springsteen the cash machine he is today. Bruce used to write hit songs and give them to other artists. He almost gave Hungry Heart to The Ramones cause he wrote it for them to record, but Landau said, not this time, were keeping this one, and it became his first top ten hit.

Actually Appel said the first song Bruce played for him was garbage, lol. SO Bruce said ok ill go home and write more, came back with a handful of great songs.


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