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Loss
by lane1777. 12/08/19 01:15 PM
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Mexico
by MFB III. 12/06/19 12:44 AM
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Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.
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#1143756 - 08/11/18 05:22 PM
"Middle Class of Musicians"
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,418
John Voorpostel
Top 20 Poster
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Top 20 Poster
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,418
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So I just came back from "Writing A Song That Matters", hosted by one on my favourite singer songwriters, Dar Williams
If you do not know here, you are losing out on one of America's best folk\pop artists full stop. Youtube and Google here for more info
It was a song writing retreat at The Garrison Insitute, on the Huson River across from West Point and included workshops by Suzze Roche, Heather Maloney, Raquel Vidal and Rick and Michelle Gerner.
Spent some time talking to Heather because I had no knowledge of her. She is actually living Brian's mantra about being able to live a good life with a critical mass fan base in centers across the country
She referred to a growing middle class of artist who can thrive in this day and age with "quality fans"and there are growing networks of these artists as they collaborate on various causes, interests and business matters
As I understand, "quality fans" are."sticky fans" who connnect and stay with an artist....as opposed to days when large record companies and AMAs ran stables of artists and mass marketed physical media and hoping they could bat some home runs among singles and doubles and strikeouts
So artists can dramatically lower media\content creation and duplication and connect to quality fans via internet
What I also heard was that there are growing networks of these artists collaborating, and it is a community one can only join as you emerge into visibility as an artist
Guess that means if you have a song to sing, just go out and play it, collaborate with other local musicans, grow as an artist, and keep going out to play. If you are any good, there are a growing number of people you will bump into locally, regionally, and nationally if you beging gigging around
So if you have a song to sing, just go out and play it.
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#1143762 - 08/11/18 10:23 PM
Re: "Middle Class of Musicians"
[Re: John Voorpostel]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,531
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,531
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One of my observations and / or complaints was that music doesn't have a medium wage, or a middle class.
You either made it or you didn't. The Internet has changed that somewhat. You don't need a record label any more, and record labels were notorious for taking everything an artist made anyway.
There are middle class singer songwriters now, but they are still rare and still brand names, in their own circles.
You can't do anything without a name. All the internet really does is your advertising. You won't sell downloads or CDs, that ship has sailed, but there are still artists who can fill small clubs and make a living.
I can name 5 who are doing it right here in nj, but they have credits, and bios that you wouldn't believe. Stars? No way, but they have enough name to fill a club. Then they can use social media to say where they are playing.
So I guess, instead of the usual 100-200 per gig, if your lucky, you could make 500 to 1000 maybe 2000 a night, which might pay the rent if you are constantly playing.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/11/18 10:24 PM.
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#1143792 - 08/12/18 06:52 PM
Re: "Middle Class of Musicians"
[Re: John Voorpostel]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,531
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,531
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It doesn't help most performing songwriters either.
Sometimes artists are very good entertainers. I know a guy who plays at this biker bar. I mean every time I drive by I see his name on the sign that he's playing there, must have been ther 5 years consistently.
Is he great? No, I think I can out play him and out sing him, and probably have better songs, and I'm just decent all around.
But he manages to get consistent work.
You know what he does well? He's great behind the mic. He engages the people and brings them into the conversation. He'll ask questions of audience members, he'll tell jokes, do a magic trick, anything he can do to make an experience for the audience.
It's a great skil to have. In the end that's what people want, to be entertained, they ain't there to praise you, they want u to praise them
But it's as tough as ever for non performing artists
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/12/18 06:54 PM.
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#1144079 - 08/22/18 12:31 AM
Re: "Middle Class of Musicians"
[Re: John Voorpostel]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,829
Brian Austin Whitney
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Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,829
Indianapolis, IN USA
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So I just came back from "Writing A Song That Matters", hosted by one on my favourite singer songwriters, Dar Williams
If you do not know here, you are losing out on one of America's best folk\pop artists full stop. Youtube and Google here for more info
It was a song writing retreat at The Garrison Insitute, on the Huson River across from West Point and included workshops by Suzze Roche, Heather Maloney, Raquel Vidal and Rick and Michelle Gerner.
Spent some time talking to Heather because I had no knowledge of her. She is actually living Brian's mantra about being able to live a good life with a critical mass fan base in centers across the country
She referred to a growing middle class of artist who can thrive in this day and age with "quality fans"and there are growing networks of these artists as they collaborate on various causes, interests and business matters
As I understand, "quality fans" are."sticky fans" who connnect and stay with an artist....as opposed to days when large record companies and AMAs ran stables of artists and mass marketed physical media and hoping they could bat some home runs among singles and doubles and strikeouts
So artists can dramatically lower media\content creation and duplication and connect to quality fans via internet
What I also heard was that there are growing networks of these artists collaborating, and it is a community one can only join as you emerge into visibility as an artist
Guess that means if you have a song to sing, just go out and play it, collaborate with other local musicans, grow as an artist, and keep going out to play. If you are any good, there are a growing number of people you will bump into locally, regionally, and nationally if you beging gigging around
So if you have a song to sing, just go out and play it.
Funny you say that about Heather because she, Roche and Williams are all JPF members. They are all excellent writers (as are the others you listed who I don't know as well) and they do, in fact, live many of the things I have long talked about, but though I have had a positive place in promoting those things, artists like them have successfully lived it and proven the theories in real life along with countless others I could begin to list here. One of my dreams within JPF was to help create, or better said to nurture a musician middle class. (I was involved in a start up in 2010 based on JPF, my 5000 Fan Theory and the goal of creating both a Career Ladder for musicians willing to put the work in and a middle class lifestyle for those who graduated. Then 3 massive strokes hit me and I had to bow out after working for years to design the courses, write a book, create climbable ladder rungs to measure and track success moving up and had gathered the financial support and technology support needed to make it all real... then I spent a year and a half in a daily fight for my life and it all scattered to the wind sadly. But there are people out there who did it on their own with a little nudge by me and at least I was able to have that positive affect on a variety of people across the spectrum of genres and age groups and career goals and talent levels. I sure wish I had the health and energy to jump back in it but we may have lost the war as the small opening that was there in 2010 is ever closing tighter and tighter for anyone in any type of middle class. Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." ![[Linked Image]](http://www.jpfolks.com/ECRoadTrip00/SCRoadtrip/LoungeBeach/Mvc-480s.jpg)
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#1146300 - 11/19/18 12:42 PM
Re: "Middle Class of Musicians"
[Re: ryan_bryan]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,531
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,531
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There's a concept called "1,000 True Fans".
Essentially, anyone needs "1,000 True Fans" to make a living off an art or hobby.
These are fans who would drive 200 miles to see you. If each one of them gives you $3/month - less than the price of a cup of coffee - you can make a living off your art.
That, I would say, is the "middle class" of music We all can find 1000 fans once, what most of us cant do is getting 1000 to see us every time we play, or buying our stuff. I call real fans.... customers, that is essentially what they are.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/19/18 12:43 PM.
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#1147127 - 12/16/18 10:23 PM
Re: "Middle Class of Musicians"
[Re: ryan_bryan]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,829
Brian Austin Whitney
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Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,829
Indianapolis, IN USA
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There's a concept called "1,000 True Fans".
Essentially, anyone needs "1,000 True Fans" to make a living off an art or hobby.
These are fans who would drive 200 miles to see you. If each one of them gives you $3/month - less than the price of a cup of coffee - you can make a living off your art.
That, I would say, is the "middle class" of music Ryan, the guy who started the "1000 true fans" admitted publicly that I had the idea first by well over a decade and I had written published articles about it in music magazines as well as in our newsletter and on this website and message board and in real life face to face talks I did all over North America going back to the 80's. It was one of our members from this board Scott from Seattle who made him aware of my 5000 fan theory as well as the steps to achieving it I had been pitching for (at that point) more than 2 decades. It's unfortunate if they are still pushing it as their idea, though I do recall that guy publishing an acknowledgement of that truth on his blog at the time he was made aware.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."
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